When I had my desktop full of installed applications, I could still function if the network got taken down. Which, while it happened infrequently enough, happened enough that having the entire building not working on ANYTHING at all was not an option.
Well Hmm... so this SuSe 9.1 personal iso I grabbed off the FTP site at ftp.suse.com this weekend must be a figment of my imagination?
Or the FTP CD available at: ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/9.2/iso
I just got a copy of SuSE 9.2 on DVD attached to this months Linux Format. I couldn't wait for the 9.2 Personal DVD download (not sure where the link was from, one of the Novell mirrors, I think) to complete (96 hours).
The personal edition leaves off all the servers, apache, mysql, postgres... suckage.:-/
Are you kidding? An office workspace OS with networking for the X86 that didn't suck ass? NT 3.1 was many things, but horrible it was not. While Netware may have been a better server at the time, when it came to 32bit computing, NT was where it was at. Witness it's phenomenally rapid adoption.
NT started at 3.1 because they wanted to market it synonymously with Windows 3.1. Microsoft wanted to create the impression they were the same, but that NT was better (and it was, on all accounts, except DOS game support).
Now, remember, Microsoft cannibalized a lot of DEC's VMS team, and that's why Windows is so anti-unixy.:-D
More importantly, you EXPLICITLY give Microsoft your money in exchange for a product without source code rights, or you could give them more money to obtain said source code rights.
With government, you have NO control over how your money is spent.
I think PIN keypads should be scramble-pads,where the order of digits is randomly assigned. My company once went from scramble pad 5 digit keycodes to proximity badges (non-photo id)... Funny.
I plead the common sense argument: you willing inject harmful smoke into your body, 10, 20 sticks at a time. And when you get sick, you want to sue the person who made and sold you the sticks, but never actually forced you to use them?
No. Not buying it. If a gun manufacturer was knowingly selling handguns to a crack dealer with serious and obvious criminal record, I'd expect them to get raped in a court-room.
If Dow Chemical spills something in Lake Punkatawsett and doesn't tell anyone, and 10 years later all the kids have 14 toes, then they should get slaughtered in court.
If I eat nothing but double-quarter pounders with cheese and grow to 800 pounds and die of heart failure, my children have cause to sue fast food manufacturers?
But Big Tobacco? I'm apalled. But it was a settlement, not a judicial verdict, so I have hopes for the future.
While I have great distaste for big tobacco, I have no sympathy for those who continue to pollute their lungs. As you should have no sympathy for me overeating and being a 350# lardass.
No, because the War of Corporate Aggression would see the U.S. Government:
A) Seize all Microsoft assets, with tanks and guns. Including all that precious source code B) Prevent Microsoft from doing business in it's first largest market, the U.S. (which is why Microsoft's threats to leave the country if it was broken in three back in 1999/2000 were generally seen as schoolyard bluster). C) Shareholders would throw a fit at loss of shareholder value.
Microsoft cannot move fast enough to avoid any of the above three. It certainly cannot avoid B).
well, since that lead will be decaying until the heat death of the universe, and Micrsoft's cash reserves are controlled by the top 51% of Microsoft shareholders who expect to see dividends and ever increasing cash holdings, I imagine that Microsoft will capitulate in the end.
It's just when, and how drawn out the process will be, because MS will resist it in it's entirety.
Why, when those countries could import said products from other countries? Good luck getting the U.S. to prevent exports of software to Europe. Nevermind the fact that if Microsoft was so stupid to pull it's products from one of it's two biggest markets, it'll kill it's own bottom line, and the shareholders would roast Steve & Bill slowly and for a LONG time.
Microsoft cannot pull their products from any market, they are a slave to their own bottom line. Any market can adopt open source solutions at $MS-Cost +/- some percentage (open for debate).
Microsoft is just buying time to think up yet another legal loophole to try jumping through. I wouldn't expect this to last more than a few weeks. Expect resistance, and future fines however to goad MS into completing the job.
If you don't believe for one second that Microsoft's top 10 shareholders won't oust Bill and Steve for letting them throw away $millions in fines every year, you're naive. It's one thing to gamble on "Potential losses to competition", it's another thing to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Not having open standards hasn't stopped the Samba team. Reverse engineering only makes it harder to do something. It's not prevention. Better to concede and use that $5m per day to innovate/morph faster than the competition can keep up, which is what MS has been doing the past 10 years.
Who knows if they can keep it up however. I have a feeling WindowsXP is the end of the line for many people for the better part of this decade...
And you are obviously not clued in enough to know that the terminal server capabilities exist because of Work Citrix did in the mid 90's. It has nothing to do with microsoft proprietary crap. In fact, RDP is nothing more than a stripped down ICA client.
I think you missed the point. arv[0] will open the executing program, not the one you want to cat to the screen. God help you if compiled python ever become more than a pipedream.
I have to admit, myself, as a die-hard SuSE 8.2 user (although I've bastardized RPMS from RedHat and Ximiam:-D), I too was unimpressed with SuSE 9.2. So I was having issues with it on my laptops, and experimented, KNOPPIX all the way on my laptops. On my servers, Fedora Core 2. I used to HATE redhat (6.2 era). I'm firmly back in the fold. When I decide to finally upgrade my aging master desktop, I'm not sure WHERE I'm going, but SuSE 9.2 is not in the cards for me.
I don't care. I have both installed. Most distros today come with both installed. Most semi-commercial applications I've seen today seem to be trending towards gnome (except open office), but that could just be my blind ignorance.
It's like deciding between Corba or DCOM. Pick what works best for you. Make it a known requirement. Develop, test, release. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Stop worrying about politics, and just write the damn thing. If you care about portability, use a tooklit like wxWidgets, or SWT.
Um, Suse 8.0 is nearly three years old now. I lump you into the same group as those people bashing WindowsME.:-)
I had similar problems with SuSE 8.2 and KDE losing my settings, my toolbar getting lost. I switched to gnome and am much happier for it. It's given me problems, because it's not a native SuSE 8.2 package, so I had to install lots of extra development libraries to make things work right.
With MFC, ComDLG32, etc. yes, there are lots of libraries installed. Figure on at least 2 different versions of MFC on a machine you might have to deal with (less of a problem today, mfc42 is pretty much the standard). That's where demand paged memory comes in. Only making copies of data pages, not code pages...
But the fact is, even two years after development ceased on Desktop Redhat, I can still run most commercial packages on redhat 9 or 8. And Oracle itself will run on Fedora Core 2. I don't see the problem. The LSB takes care of most applications, if only vendors would stop checking/etc/uname for a version, and target to libraries.
But I envy your for the simplicity of your choice. OSX is indeed impressive.
My bet that if you had been restricted to just Maya, you would have settled on Redhat. Linux is linux, distro be damned.
The fact that you found a platform that isn't Windows that supported ALL of your applications is what drove your decision. I'm not at all surprised. In that case, your upfront costs certainly paid for themselves.
I do believe that in this case, fork means more than just code differences. In many cases, it's a philosophical or political difference. Witness XFree86 vs X.Org, or the various BSDs. While sharing code may occur in either or both cases, and often does, they exist because of very different reasons, not that they are vastly different. They were once the same, and now they are not, and that's because of the motivational reasons.
If IBM wanted to make mainframe improvements to Linux, and Linus refused, I GUARANTEE there'd be an IBM-Linux fork. But Linus & Co. have been generally fair to everyone in vetting which patches get into the kernel.
And Linux is using the competitions best tricks to outmaneuver, outflank, and eventually surpass them. Because of it's momentum, it's hobbyist base, it's commercial supporters, and it's openness, it's only going to snowball.
Slashdot Mirror
Ah, but there's a difference...
When I had my desktop full of installed applications, I could still function if the network got taken down. Which, while it happened infrequently enough, happened enough that having the entire building not working on ANYTHING at all was not an option.
Well Hmm... so this SuSe 9.1 personal iso I grabbed off the FTP site at ftp.suse.com this weekend must be a figment of my imagination?
:-/
Or the FTP CD available at: ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/9.2/iso
I just got a copy of SuSE 9.2 on DVD attached to this months Linux Format. I couldn't wait for the 9.2 Personal DVD download (not sure where the link was from, one of the Novell mirrors, I think) to complete (96 hours).
The personal edition leaves off all the servers, apache, mysql, postgres... suckage.
Are you kidding? An office workspace OS with networking for the X86 that didn't suck ass? NT 3.1 was many things, but horrible it was not. While Netware may have been a better server at the time, when it came to 32bit computing, NT was where it was at. Witness it's phenomenally rapid adoption.
:-D
NT started at 3.1 because they wanted to market it synonymously with Windows 3.1. Microsoft wanted to create the impression they were the same, but that NT was better (and it was, on all accounts, except DOS game support).
Now, remember, Microsoft cannibalized a lot of DEC's VMS team, and that's why Windows is so anti-unixy.
Yes, but can you agree that temperature variations are an unknowable, considering that the scales were only invented 200 some-odd years ago?
Who's to say that Europes local temperatures weren't slightly higher due to excessive burnoff of the forests for charcoal?
More importantly, you EXPLICITLY give Microsoft your money in exchange for a product without source code rights, or you could give them more money to obtain said source code rights.
With government, you have NO control over how your money is spent.
Don't misunderstand me. I'm a die-hard capitalist. :-)
I think PIN keypads should be scramble-pads,where the order of digits is randomly assigned. My company once went from scramble pad 5 digit keycodes to proximity badges (non-photo id)... Funny.
Funny how capitalism has such exactly in common with Communism... hmm.. ;-/
I plead the common sense argument: you willing inject harmful smoke into your body, 10, 20 sticks at a time. And when you get sick, you want to sue the person who made and sold you the sticks, but never actually forced you to use them?
No. Not buying it. If a gun manufacturer was knowingly selling handguns to a crack dealer with serious and obvious criminal record, I'd expect them to get raped in a court-room.
If Dow Chemical spills something in Lake Punkatawsett and doesn't tell anyone, and 10 years later all the kids have 14 toes, then they should get slaughtered in court.
If I eat nothing but double-quarter pounders with cheese and grow to 800 pounds and die of heart failure, my children have cause to sue fast food manufacturers?
But Big Tobacco? I'm apalled. But it was a settlement, not a judicial verdict, so I have hopes for the future.
While I have great distaste for big tobacco, I have no sympathy for those who continue to pollute their lungs. As you should have no sympathy for me overeating and being a 350# lardass.
Regards,
-Chris
No, because the War of Corporate Aggression would see the U.S. Government:
A) Seize all Microsoft assets, with tanks and guns. Including all that precious source code
B) Prevent Microsoft from doing business in it's first largest market, the U.S. (which is why Microsoft's threats to leave the country if it was broken in three back in 1999/2000 were generally seen as schoolyard bluster).
C) Shareholders would throw a fit at loss of shareholder value.
Microsoft cannot move fast enough to avoid any of the above three. It certainly cannot avoid B).
What does assisted suicide have to do with murder? What else could legal termination of a persons life be? Abortion, maybe?
Did you mean illegal termination?
well, since that lead will be decaying until the heat death of the universe, and Micrsoft's cash reserves are controlled by the top 51% of Microsoft shareholders who expect to see dividends and ever increasing cash holdings, I imagine that Microsoft will capitulate in the end.
It's just when, and how drawn out the process will be, because MS will resist it in it's entirety.
Why, when those countries could import said products from other countries? Good luck getting the U.S. to prevent exports of software to Europe. Nevermind the fact that if Microsoft was so stupid to pull it's products from one of it's two biggest markets, it'll kill it's own bottom line, and the shareholders would roast Steve & Bill slowly and for a LONG time.
Microsoft cannot pull their products from any market, they are a slave to their own bottom line. Any market can adopt open source solutions at $MS-Cost +/- some percentage (open for debate).
Microsoft is just buying time to think up yet another legal loophole to try jumping through. I wouldn't expect this to last more than a few weeks. Expect resistance, and future fines however to goad MS into completing the job.
If you don't believe for one second that Microsoft's top 10 shareholders won't oust Bill and Steve for letting them throw away $millions in fines every year, you're naive. It's one thing to gamble on "Potential losses to competition", it's another thing to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Not having open standards hasn't stopped the Samba team. Reverse engineering only makes it harder to do something. It's not prevention. Better to concede and use that $5m per day to innovate/morph faster than the competition can keep up, which is what MS has been doing the past 10 years.
Who knows if they can keep it up however. I have a feeling WindowsXP is the end of the line for many people for the better part of this decade...
Witness Cigarette manufacturers in the U.S.
Witness gun lawsuits, and why Colt, arguably the maker of the finest handguns on earth, dropped out of the consumer market.
The precedent has been set.
Oh Wah! Cry me a river. :-)
And you are obviously not clued in enough to know that the terminal server capabilities exist because of Work Citrix did in the mid 90's. It has nothing to do with microsoft proprietary crap. In fact, RDP is nothing more than a stripped down ICA client.
I think you missed the point. arv[0] will open the executing program, not the one you want to cat to the screen. God help you if compiled python ever become more than a pipedream.
I have to admit, myself, as a die-hard SuSE 8.2 user (although I've bastardized RPMS from RedHat and Ximiam :-D), I too was unimpressed with SuSE 9.2. So I was having issues with it on my laptops, and experimented, KNOPPIX all the way on my laptops. On my servers, Fedora Core 2. I used to HATE redhat (6.2 era). I'm firmly back in the fold. When I decide to finally upgrade my aging master desktop, I'm not sure WHERE I'm going, but SuSE 9.2 is not in the cards for me.
I don't care. I have both installed. Most distros today come with both installed. Most semi-commercial applications I've seen today seem to be trending towards gnome (except open office), but that could just be my blind ignorance.
It's like deciding between Corba or DCOM. Pick what works best for you. Make it a known requirement. Develop, test, release. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Stop worrying about politics, and just write the damn thing. If you care about portability, use a tooklit like wxWidgets, or SWT.
Um, Suse 8.0 is nearly three years old now. I lump you into the same group as those people bashing WindowsME. :-)
I had similar problems with SuSE 8.2 and KDE losing my settings, my toolbar getting lost. I switched to gnome and am much happier for it. It's given me problems, because it's not a native SuSE 8.2 package, so I had to install lots of extra development libraries to make things work right.
With MFC, ComDLG32, etc. yes, there are lots of libraries installed. Figure on at least 2 different versions of MFC on a machine you might have to deal with (less of a problem today, mfc42 is pretty much the standard). That's where demand paged memory comes in. Only making copies of data pages, not code pages...
But the fact is, even two years after development ceased on Desktop Redhat, I can still run most commercial packages on redhat 9 or 8. And Oracle itself will run on Fedora Core 2. I don't see the problem. The LSB takes care of most applications, if only vendors would stop checking /etc/uname for a version, and target to libraries.
But I envy your for the simplicity of your choice. OSX is indeed impressive.
My bet that if you had been restricted to just Maya, you would have settled on Redhat. Linux is linux, distro be damned.
The fact that you found a platform that isn't Windows that supported ALL of your applications is what drove your decision. I'm not at all surprised. In that case, your upfront costs certainly paid for themselves.
I do believe that in this case, fork means more than just code differences. In many cases, it's a philosophical or political difference. Witness XFree86 vs X.Org, or the various BSDs. While sharing code may occur in either or both cases, and often does, they exist because of very different reasons, not that they are vastly different. They were once the same, and now they are not, and that's because of the motivational reasons.
If IBM wanted to make mainframe improvements to Linux, and Linus refused, I GUARANTEE there'd be an IBM-Linux fork. But Linus & Co. have been generally fair to everyone in vetting which patches get into the kernel.
And Linux is using the competitions best tricks to outmaneuver, outflank, and eventually surpass them. Because of it's momentum, it's hobbyist base, it's commercial supporters, and it's openness, it's only going to snowball.