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Windows XP Starter Edition off to Slow Start
An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft may have started shipping its cheaper version of Windows in Asia, but getting support for its low-cost computing vision is still very much a work in progress. It seems Starter Edition has not gained much interest from vendors, nor has it generated much interest from end users." I haven't seen any sort of consumer research, but I imagine people don't like to have their number of possible network connections restrained by the host operating system.
Maybe in the coming days of Longhorn, Microsoft should sell a standard Shorthorn version, with built-in limitation.
I believe normal users don't really know/care the differences, but if you tell them A is a standard version, it has xx features, they can also buy B with x features, people tend to choose former.
However, if you tell consumers A is a standard version with x features, they can also buy a premium version with xx features, people still tend to choose the former, but some of them will upgrade to the latter simply because it is better.
Oh by the way, naming it Shorthorn is just as bad as XP Starter, MS should have the standard Longhorn with fewer features, and come out market Longerhorn as the premium.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
but people still want the big thing so they'll get for "free" the xp os and forget about this "parody".
Trolling using another account since 2005.
That any machine they buy probably has the pirated full version of Windows XP already installed, or it can be found on the street for 5 dollars...
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
In a One-Copy Country, the full version of Windows is free anyway. Why on earth would someone pay for a crippled version?
How many billions has win2000 made? surey they could just sell that for $5 as is on a cheap cd, no box.
:)
They could retro fit the XP theme into 2000 and call it XP-$5 edition
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
It all goes back to TCO... and unless you're Steve Ballmer (YEAAA GET UP!! I LOVE THIS COMPANYYYY YEAAA!!!) the TCO is definately less with Linux. And that is just the tip of the iceberg young grasshoppa.
The Peanut Gallery, Ubergeek, Biblically Sober
NCAAbbs.com: Thousands of fans, Hundreds of teams, Just one place
does that take into account the connections started by spambots?
vodka, straight up, thank you!
...it's actually possible to criiple XP more than Home Edition was?
The "starter" software near enough fails to get started itself!
This just goes to show how threatened companies feel about alternatives (read: F/OSS). If you look about it from the global perspective, Microsoft's options caters for just about every audience: from poor to rich, honest and dishonest. Every one of those has a reason to use Windows -- generally it's "but everyone else uses it too!" It's a shame, really...
How surprised can anyone be if full version bootleg copies of XP are sold in the malls for $5 versus $32 for a legal, though crippled version.
http://www.busyweather.com/
The restrictions in Starter Edition (low maximum resolution, limited number of applications that can be run at once) are completely arbitrary. Microsoft hasn't put these restrictions in place because it makes the software cheaper, it has put them in place because it wants to force a cheaper version to be less functional.
The problem is that, regardless of whether users would actually need the functionality that Starter Edition doesn't have, people won't like it. People are simply averse to buying products that have been deliberately crippled. It doesn't matter whether the restrictions affect them, they feel insulted by being offered something that has been willfully hobbled.
Jedidiah.
Craft Beer Programming T-shirts
Its main competitor is pirated full version of XP Home and Pro, available on every corner for $5 (or less!).
Linux Starter Edition
Same price as full edition.
Same features as full edition.
Same amount of source as full edition.
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
Windows Starter Ed. is a GOOD THING. If people want to go with a non-pirated OS, they're going to choose FOSS and *nix over Windows.
I make mistakes. Don't we all?
It's called Windows XP Asian Street Corner Edition. Available either free or next to nothing in most metropolitan street corners in Asia.
So.... they're marketing "Starter Edition" to whom? Business that want to be legit (banks, etc) already can't afford the limitations of the OS and are either looking at Linux (Good(tm)) or Windows Server/Xp Pro solutions (Bad!(tm)) anyway. The consumers? Ha! They're using the free copies they've always been using, or running some other OS (linux, os2, cp/m, whatever) that isn't draconian. I'm sure that calling it 'Starter' edition isn't the best way to go either.
I don't see why this is a big suprise... if you try to sell what you WANT the market to demand versus sell TO what the market demands you're going to lose each and every time.
But when the desktop came up it said I couldn't run anymore programs besides gator, hot bar and virtual bouncer.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
I prefer to turn to linux for such a price`
In Soviet Russia, XP Starter Edition finds you!
The summary comment about users not wanting to have their OS limit network connections is a bit of a red herring... The average user doesn't really even know what a network connection IS, much less care about how many their OS allows. As long as it can browse and get e-mail (usually not even at the same time) they're happy with it. Starter Edition may be a silly idea, but at least be realistic about why it's silly.
By consumers you would mean, say, impoverished academics or people from the third world who would compare this to "Real Windows" and conclude that however good it might be and however much it might do, even unto the utmost 98% of what they need, that it would be nicer and more convenient to just pirate "Real Windows" and use that.
IOW, Windows Lite is facing exactly the same barrier that Linux is facing.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
I'm not surprised that XP SE is off to a slow start. I mean, which is cheaper: a legit version of XP SE ($32), or a pirated copy of XP Home/Pro (~$5)? Also, should people want to upgrade to a full featured version of XP, it's still going to cost them an arm and a leg, isn't it? As best as I can tell, this is just Microsoft's way of saying "They can afford Windows now and have a perfectly good reason not to pirate it."
Hope be with ye,
Cyan
...When spyware and viruses use up the 3 program limit and now their computer "doesn't work anymore."?
Very few people are going to choose a 'cheap', but brain-damaged operating system, when they can get a more sophisticated one for free. They'll either (illegally) copy XP, or (legally) copy Linux.
Further, if Microsoft manages to talk OUR government into pressuring THEIR governments into cracking down more on piracy, this will probably increase sales for them a little bit. It will also increase Linux adoption a very great deal.
The dirty little secret that Microsoft has been hiding all these years is that piracy was GOOD for them in creating their monopoly. Now that they have a monopoly, however, they believe the illegal copying does them no good, so they are trying to stop it.
But in many of those foreign countries, they do not yet have a monopoly. And the concept of serving the customer has been absent from Microsoft for so long that they actually think people will buy this brain-dead crap. Instead of doing the RIGHT thing by the customer, which is dropping the price on the normal product to something the local economy can supporty, they're trying this racket to protect their home monopoly pricing.
Ultimately, it's just not going to work. They may eventually figure it out. I'm not convinced of this, however. They have been a monopoly for too long and fear losing that power more than they want to get into new markets.
I understand restricting the ammount of connections on server software. It makes sence when some that MS SQL Server Developement can only handle a very limited nummber, but a client? That means that you can use a limited number of instances of a web browser and useng a browser like Opera does not provide any benefits.
"I haven't seen any sort of consumer research, but I imagine people don't like to have their number of possible network connections restrained by the host operating system."
:)
I disagree entirely. The lack of sales has to do with the market's prefrence of Window XP: Pirate Edition - aka XP ARRRRG. Can't beat the price in developing markets
Doesn't it limit the user to three simultaneous apps? Who the hell would buy that, when you know the free version (pirated, what they are trying to stop) has no limits at all?
I guess all you ever need up is a chat client, IE, and Outlook for the complete Microsoft experience.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Pirated Version of Windows XP Pro with more features costs less then Legit and restricted version of Windows XP Starter.
Its A NO brainer for most 3rd world peasants who rather spend the saved money on food.
The people who are really going to feel this are the people who actually buy the upgrades, who install the newer versions from CDs they've *bought*. In short, the people who buy Microsoft Products. They're going to buy the cheaper version and realise that they can't do everything they could with the new version that they could with the old one. So, they'll probably either switch back to the old, or see what the other options are.
Microsoft's new strategy to stop the spread of worms.
...people who buy a Windows *Starter Edition* are surely only interested in one thing: Whether or not their network connections will be restricted. :)
Microsoft tried to push the Starter Edition in Brazil, to replace Linux in a government-funded program to combat the digital divide.
Brazilian representatives refused the offer, because they didn't want poor people to have a second-class computer, as if they were second-class citizens.
With Linux, people have everything: the operating system, OpenOffice, Firefox, Gimp, programming languages and hundreds of useful software.
(BTW I think it's revolting that MS put money to create a "worsened" version of Windows, instead of improve the "real one".)
Considering the first place they ask when they have a problem (if they aren't as informed as we are ;) ) is the guys they got the system from--either the OEM, or Microsoft if they bought the Starter Edition separately somehow. The last thing they want people who can barely stomach--much less use a PC--to do is call them because they ran a ton of progs and suddenly crashed the compy, possibly thanks to bad advice from a "friend" or just curiosity.
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
Extra points to the person who came up with a title that has two appropriate meanings!
when pirated, uncrippled ones can be had for less.
The cultural stigma around using pirated goods is even weaker in a lot of the 3rd world than it is here.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
I imagine people don't like to have their number of possible network connections restrained by the host operating system. Well people wouldn't get this OS if they want to start a server. Or download music. I assume they want to pretty much learn what a "pointer device" is.
You might know how easy it was to turn NT Workstation into NT Server.
In Windows 2000 (and maybe XP), in order to prevent people from doing this, the system idle loop was modified. It scans the memory area where the setting for this is located about every second, and replaces it with the right value if it was changed.
Now that's an interesting way of enforcing crippled software.
Farmix
The only XP that makes sense doesn't sell... the XP OFF THE NETWORK!
||| I still can't believe Parkay's not butter.
1) Is the countries MS is seeking to market this product, illegitimate full copies are already sold at a cut rate 2) Since prosecution of the criminal copiers is nearly non-existant, why would a customer purchase a legal crippled version of the software vs, a fully-functional illegal version? On another note: This is a wonderful opportunity for Linux to make a good foothold.
They came for the Communists, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Communist; They came for the Socialists, and I didn'
Try playing games, besides Tux Racer, on your Linux machine.
Have fun.
Bob was created so Bill could get into Melinda's pants...
Actually, I don't think BOB was a marketing disaster just a product that never made it. It's not like there were commericals for it during the Super Bowl.
I do fear that it's a GPL violation, though - since I fear many of those distributors don't make the source available. It might violate the XP EULA, but since you have to agree to the EULA before you're allowed to read it I never bothered to read it.
They should strip out the features people DON'T want, not the ones they do. Remove MSN messenger. Remove IE. Remove Windows media Player. Give me an Operating System, not a load of applications which are difficult if not impossible to remove when I realize they are there (and I never wanted them in the first place). Remove theme support, remove all the clunky "wizards" and other "features" that were supposed to make my life easier but instead frustrate the hell out of me.
Don't put an arbitrary limit on the number of programs that can be run at once. Get rid of the stuff I don't want to pay for to begin with. I never would have switched to Linux had I had access to a $50.00 version of Windows that didn't have all that crap built in.
Great, just what the third world needs . . . credit from the good ol boys in Redmond . . .
I haven't seen any sort of consumer research, but I imagine people don't like to have their number of possible network connections restrained by the host operating system.
If you are running any cut of windows in the last five years and did the service packs, you probably have a neutered TCP/IP stack. Microsoft limits the number of connections - found this out the hard way when I patched a counter strike server and things went to hell in a handbasket. They cut down XP (10 connections with pro, 5 home) with Service Pack 2. Win2K (pro, server, adv server all different limits) had the same issues. There are tweaks - but if you are someone who might need more connections than that you might want to think about something a bit more capable as a server OS.
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
I can see this edition being purchased as a site license for schools(government agencies maybe as well?) or small businesses that are anti-piracy.
XP added the rounded edges to the top of the windows to make it safe for three-year-olds. Now Starter Edition builds on this innovation by being large (impossible to swallow), soft (so no-one gets hurt when the machine is ejected from a 10th floor window), and non-threatening ("My First Li'l Computer"). The default font will be Comic Sans.
Starter Edition. What a patronising title.
wow, smacked by cowards.
what's a tux racer?
Quick! Get out the booster cables, whip out the XP corp with FCKGW.....
yes, exactly right, the world has moved on and is leaving microsoft behind...
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
So, in Microsoft Land,
:o/
- people are stupid
- third world people with little money are even stupider
FLR
Here's a friend's accounting of how organized piracy is in HK:
<genjzzz> there are several plazas in hk that sell only computer and video game stuff
<genjzzz> a lot of grey market stuff there
<genjzzz> and counterfeit stuff like ps accessories
<genjzzz> ps2 that is
<genjzzz> and oversea versions of consoles that have no reason to be in hk
<genjzzz> i bought my cdrs from an organized group of individuals
<genjzzz> maybe about 14 in all
<genjzzz> anyway, inside one of the plazas, they have a corner shop set up with only color photocopies of the software they have available
<genjzzz> about 300 or so
<genjzzz> they have look outs at every entrance
<genjzzz> so i walk in and find the software i want
<genjzzz> and someone take the order and give me a slip with the software's stock numbers on it
<genjzzz> then i walk to the other side of the plaza where there's a "cashier" standing around
<genjzzz> i give him the slip and the money, he tells me who to see about pick up
<genjzzz> usually a few stores away
<genjzzz> the cashier gives me a slip with a number on it, that's my receipt to get the items
<genjzzz> so the dude tells me where to pick up the software: down the street and up the stairs at some store
<genjzzz> in about 15 minutes
<genjzzz> so i wait and go up and see some guy with a bunch of cdrs in plastic bags with receipt numbers on them
<genjzzz> i give him my receipt and get my software ~
<genjzzz> so they have seperate places for choosing, paying, information, and pick up
<genjzzz> and the warehouse of the cdrs is never revealed
This isn't a case of a few guys selling cdrs to friends, it's a huge, well-established business.
It's the difference between a kid's bike and a kid's bike with training wheels....
AKA: Windows Sucker Edition.
Regardless of how a product is marketed, calling anything "starter" is essentially an intellectual snub. The manufacturer is saying to the consumer "you may not be smart enough to run the version that your neighbor is running, but here is a version just for you". Perhaps the logo on the box could be a pair of mittens and those rounded, rubberized safety scissors to really complete the insult.
I would think that you need get back to uninstalling spyware... but hey, it's only your data. why protect it with a real system?
When/if it's released in the US, I'd probably buy at least a couple of copies. They'd run my cash registers. There's no need for a full-featured OS on a machine that runs one application, and a web browser.
I don't respond to AC's.
Maybe they should give away the Starter edition... and then charge gradually increasing prices for addons and upgrades...
Pssst! I got some nice OS here, kid...
Just say "NO!" to Windows!
No unauthorized use. Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.
Uh...ok? Where have you been? Linux has games.
-insert a witty something-
You are the moments that you only use your desktop for desktop stuff.
You can lead a horse to water, but you are the moments that you only use your desktop for desktop stuff.
They should also use the "Pro" moniker on the low end (aka Home) edition and rename "Pro" to "Corporate Edition." There seem to be far too many people that feel that they need the "Pro" version of something, simply because it's better.
Back when I worked at CHIMPUSA in college, i met many people like that. They had NT back office because it was 'more powerful' than workstation. When I asked them why it was better, they just stared at me blankly.
MS has a HORRIBLE nameing convention. First off, they keep changing it. Jesus Bill, I'm using all my gray matter remembering syntax for all your differing programming languages, can we keep the naming convention on the OS consistant?
How about going back to the NT names? Workstation for workstations, server for servers, and TheJesusCristServer(tm) for enterprise servers. ('The JesusCristServer, it works miracles!')
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Go to iDot and order a Linspire Webstation, add some extra RAM and a hard drive and you have a "Starter Edition" PC for about $275. It does everything a "Starter Edition" Windows PC can do. There is no law of physics, computing or economics that dictates what the price of MS should be or what the price to functions relationship should be.
"I haven't seen any sort of consumer research, but I imagine people don't like to have their number of possible network connections restrained by the host operating system."
/. editors make up their own reasons when they don't agree with the articles their posting.
The writeup doesn't even mention the key point of the article:
"Gilliland attributed the tepid response largely to high piracy rates."
So
Vote for Pedro
I believe he is doing 10 to 20.
Windows Even More Crippled Edition!
so faced with the decision of
a/ using a full version but illegal copy
b/ using a fully developed Free Linux Distro
c/ using a lame version that costs more than the weekly wage
which would you choose?
...a series of animals.
Mac OS X has used cats: Jaguar, Panther, Tiger.
Maybe Windows could use dogs...?
"I haven't seen any sort of consumer research, but I imagine people don't like to have their number of possible network connections restrained by the host operating system."
This is one of the truly cool things about FOSS. For software that's being sold, they have to try to market different "levels" of software to different markets to maximize their profit, but with FOSS you get to run the same, unhindered stuff that anyone else does.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
I think you can hardly blame Balmer for all sorts of things that were set in motion well before he gained control...
They did put the XBox out, that counts for something. Otherwise though I'd agree they've not done much. But I think that's more a matter of corporate malaise rather than anything Balmer has done or not done. Not that I'm a big fan of his...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Not to give Ballmer any undeserved credit, but Microsoft is in a different phase of corporate life now than in the Bill Gates era. As a business grows in terms of customers, products or employees, change becomes increasingly difficult and inefficient.
Stock analysts have compared MS to a guy in his 40s going through mid-life crisis, wanting to act young but not having the body or mental outlook for it. I read a good article on Motley Fool a couple years ago that said MS is in stage 3 of the corporate life cycle.
Stage 1 is the Startup stage, where obviously you take a lot of risks and do a lot of innovation.
Stage 2 is the Growth stage, where you focus on expanding market share by learning how to replicate your success as cheaply and efficiently as possible, which usually means developing a culture of standardization and uniformity.
I forget the name of Stage 3, but it's where the company can't make changes fast enough to compete in the real world. At this stage it should be reinvesting its money in younger companies and branding their innovations.
Employees who produce the most new ideas -- the young, creative people with the least structured minds and the greatest ability to go without sleep -- are the ones most alienated by Stage 3 corporate culture. Microsoft's problem, according to the Motley Fool article, is that it's a Stage 3 company trying to perform like a Startup. If Ballmer's to blame for anything, it's his failure to accept that fact.
I think the reason why this product isn't doing all that well is simply because the Joe Average in Asia is a lot smarter than what the American market droids give them credit for.
Imagine this.
If a small Mercedes costs $100,000 and a larger Mercedes costs $200,000, I know for certain that for that extra $100,000 I'm paying for some real tangible goods (ie: extra metal, leather, engines, etc)
But for Windows XP - SE, what am I paying for here? Essentially the "rights" to something. It costs Microsoft nothing more to give me Windows XP regular edition (in fact it costs them money to put in the code crippling it!), why would the consumer be all so receptive about it?
That MS can provide it for a cheap knock off price only indicates one thing: they can probably afford to sell the real Windows XP for the same cheap knock off price!
The only difference between the 2 is probably just some registry setting embedded in the registry. I do not foresee the possibility of separate binaries included in Windows Updates.
Online backup with Mozy, sounds like Ozzie, but more!
To counter the effects of the slow start, Microsoft engineers are developing a slow shutdown feature.
Someone will just figure out what MS did to "cripple" WinXP, and uncripple it.
Just like WinNT server and workstation: the server differed from workstation version in just two registry keys. MS thought they were so smart in putting those keys into a process that would watch them and make sure they never changed.
Yeah right.
Just hex edit that binary so it'd watch the wrong registry keys, modify the keys to the WinNT server values, and turn your WinNT workstation into a WinNT server.
That's the whole point. Using a browser like Opera is not supposed to provide any benefits! This is all about lock-in. The idea is that when treacherous computing becomes the norm, these people will be forced to use it. Digital Restrictions Management will cut so-called casual piracy to negligible levels. Microsoft and their ??AA cronies will own all content. People will have no rights.
Microsoft lost, according to them, over 10 BILLION dollars in revenue due to piracy last year alone. They would be a full 30% bigger if they could somehow eliminate piracy. They have huge charts on the walls inside some of the buildings showing exactly where the piracy is taking place, and the the loss to Microsoft because of it. They track it that well. They have somewhere upwards of 200 people dedicated to thinking about piracy and ways to solve it. You can expect more trial-and-error attempts like XP: Starter Edition because the incentive to fixing the problem is huge. They fully expect to solve it, as with all else they attempt. It is just a matter of time. I am not sure I agree on this one, the forces they are fighting against are also well motivated and extremely hard to track. The only difference between these people (the pirates, not Microsoft, although the point could be argued) and the terrorist organizations is that they don't tend to explode in crowded places. I would think that if Microsoft pushes to hard on this one, it could become violent, given the dollars at stake to both parties.
A most overlooked advantage to owning a computer is if they foul up there's no law against wacking them around a bit.
I thought of a better animal scheme: butterfly, beetle, ant etc.
My new blog
Well, Ballmer did give us the sweaty, hyper gorilla dance.
Developers, developers, developers, developers!
If you then wanted the fancy, smooth-icons, latest WMP, etc, you could pay them to upgrade to full-blown XP, otherwise, you're still running an official, NT-based, Microsoft OS. $20 Win2K would be a killer app in a lot of venues. It's be like the old, non-copy-protected Wordstar. If they buy it, great, that's money; if they steal it, that's great; they're not giving money to our competitors, and they're increasing our user-base.
Heck, for $20/copy my employer might finally banish Win98 from undergrad labs.
the more accurate the calculations became, the more the concepts tended to vanish into thin air. R. S. Mulliken
Have ever notice the number of editions Microsoft offers? Are the trying to outnumber the linux distributions. There is XP Pro, XP Home, XP Media Center, XP tablet, XP lite (Euro Version), Windows Embedded, 2003 Server, Windows Cluster and now XP Starter for poor countries. I know they all designated for different things (obviously) but I have no damn idea as to why. MS should throw out the marketing handbook and start fresh. First, MS should stop calling everything that is expected to run a piece a hardware- Windows. In some cases, the user may never see a window while running the device. Pocket PC was lot a better name than Windows CE so they should extend this philosophy to other segments. As for the OS that is runs a desktops or notebook, MS should make one low cost standard edition for everyone with the technology every computer needs (TCP/IP, Drivers, GUI, Power Management, etc.). Its insulting to think MS believes that value is only important in India and China. I watch my budget too!!! If users need some extra functionality, well they can buy the software to add it. I like Apple's philosophy, keep it simple stupid. There is one version for client (cheaper than windows) and one for server (again cheaper than windows). One can do a lot of things with Mac OSX (and in Linux) from clustering to recording tv to reading email. All a user has to do is to get the software.
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
or cockroach, dung beetle, maggot, etc
The only way to tell the difference between a hamster and a gerbil is that the hamster has more white meat.
I don't know about all the Asian countries, but I remember living in Chengdu, China and being able to goto Computer City (The major computer place in town) and get my illegal copy of windows there for about 5 RMB (roughly $0.80). I don't think users will switch to legal versions just because Microsoft wants them to. There are hardly any anti software copying organisations in Asia and the ones that do exist seem to be extremly corrupt... (Thailand may be a small exception).. Why pay a lot of $$$ for something you can get dirt cheap around the corner and nobody will bat an eye...
People seem to be talking about MS crippling software like its a new practice. Has anyone here seen the differences between XP Home and Pro? Home doesn't even let you connect to a domain! Heck, even 98 lets you do that, which gives it at least one thing over MS's sorry excuse for a 'new' operating system. Really all that MS did when they released XP was slap a new GUI on it and call it compatible with older applications (although I've never seen such claims in practice... kinda makes you think). Why hasn't MS pulled their heads out of the rear ends and rewritten the kernel? Heck, Apple was able to do it, and rather successfully at that. Really, when you think about that claims that MS made when XP came out, about it being so much more stable and secure (**smirk**), and how they made it sound like a new thing, as if the NT was some kind of secret, it makes you kind of wonder what it is that their dev team does (other than put off security fixes for 2-3 weeks so they can sell them to the companies for a pretty penny first).
The only way to tell the difference between a hamster and a gerbil is that the hamster has more white meat.
I mentioned the commie part, aluding to the fact that open source software is a form of socialisim. At least, in the government by the prolitariat(sp?) sense of the word. See, by exagerating this minor point, and painting him as a frothing bolshevik communist, I hope to create a silly, almost surreal image of Linus for comic value, and....oh, never mind. *sigh*
You raise a good point though. In addition to the granola thing, anyone know if Linus smells like a dirty hippy?
*ducks*
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
I went to Pantip plaza to buy a legit copy of XP for my wifes family, they are using winme. I remember reading somewhere the price would be about $30 which is nothing for an American, dinner for four is more expensive. The lowest price I was quoted was $68. The end of the story is it is far to costly for Thai's, when my wifes siblings make from $200-400 a month at the factory or building construction. I just installed BitDefender and unplugged the computer from the phone.
I now just take parts over and build machines for famly and friends. I leave the drivers for windows and tell them install the OS yourself.
Now if I could keep the bugs and lizards out of the powersupplies.
I don't get it. I just bought a $589.00 PC pre-loaded with Windows XP Home Edition. Why would someone in an asian country spend $400.00 to buy a PC with Windows Starter, which is a ridiculous operating system. $32.00 may not seem like much, but it's equivalent to spending $100.00 in the US. Besides, in these countries, a full version of Windows can be had for a few dollars -- so there's no market at all for Microsoft's nonsense. Linux is popular in Asian countries (I think Linux is the official government OS in China), so why would anyone pay for an inferior Windows?? This makes no sense at all. I have old disks of Windows 98 which can do more than Windows XP starter, and I'll give those away... Anyone who buys WIndows XP starter is a sure bet to appear on a new reality show called "What the hell is the matter with you??"
I really loved the 95 Plus pack concept. Why can't all the bloat be moved to a Plus pack?
Gee, a Windows XP version that is even less useful than Windows XP - Home. Wow. I can't wait!
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Of course, that would bring back memories of all the Street Fighter II versions that came out...
---southpaw
Even if they force a vesion of windows without media player, who would want it?
It's a case of the EU forcing something on MS and on MS's customers that neither of them want nand will have zero effect in the market place.
But you know, people have to justify their existance somehow. There's always a new law to be made or a new company to badger for no reason.
So you don't have to go searching to find them out, here's what MS says:
:P). Amusingly MS passes this and the below one off as 'features' ("Simplified task management").
1) Three programs at most open at once, three windows per program at once. (This might make tabbed browsing popular
2) Maximum resolution is 800x600. Ugh.
3) No LAN support between PCs, or to share printers, etc. Internet support is still there, but I have a suspicion you might not be able to use a router.
4) No multiple user account support.
5) Maximum addressable system RAM is 128MB. This seems ridiculous - I always though you were crippling XP anyway by running it on anything less than 256.
6) Maximum addressable hard drive space is 40GB. Slightly more reasonable than the RAM, but still pretty bad.
They also claim you can run it on a 233 Mhz processor (300 recommended). It probably won't look that pretty.
So yeah, blatant crippleware. It doesn't surprise me nobody's buying it.
Transgaming Technologies--WineX / Cedega handles ~70% of Windows games to a reasonable degree. It requires 3d hardware acceleration, though, which means getting the appropriate driver.
2) Since prosecution of the criminal copiers is nearly non-existant, why would a customer purchase a legal crippled version of the software vs, a fully-functional illegal version?
Microsoft is hoping to get this into the OEM channels so that OEMs won't flock to GNU/Linux when the BSA first comes to a given third world country.
This is a wonderful opportunity for Linux to make a good foothold.
This would be true if manufacturers of low-end peripherals were willing to work with the Linux driver people, but in many cases they're not. You try coaxing the Scanmaker 4850's wire-level specs out of Microtek if you don't believe me.
Windows XP Non-Starter?
MrCreosote Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump! "You're right! There isn't enough room to swing a cat in here!"
I don't know if you guys poke around for this kind of info on the web or not, but there are sites (which I will not link to) dedicated to all the kinds of alterations you can do to make XP into something other than the flavor it is currently, including hints on where to get illegal copies of the missing components. I recently read an entertaining thread about turning XP Home into Media Center Ed. I have no doubt that SE is doomed to the same fate.
These guys have already done all kinds of wacky stuff to get around soft limits and product activation. They already get their updates from third-party sources. Microsoft must be aware of this stuff by now. It makes me wonder if the Start Edition is really just a ruse to inflate the seriousness of the illegal copying problem. Don't get me wrong, it's bad overseas, but one can't exactly claim (and retain his credibility) that he is losing sales in a country where he does not sell his product.
Fred
"A fool and his freedom are soon parted"
-RMS
nor has it generated much interest from end users
I wonder why that might be? "Gee, we're going to take an operating system that few people really like, which has as its only real advantage the fact that there's lots of applications available for it... and restrict the number of applications it can run concurrently... do you think people might be interested in that?"
I thought I read before that Starter Edition was the result of a lost anti-trust lawsuit in one of these countries...They HAD to make it but didn't really want to..
It will unfortunately still crash easily, sometimes for no good reason. In an attempt to wring more profits out of the market Microsoft will ship .CAR Starter Edition in early 2007. Surely will be a success despite its gas tank capacity of 5 gallons and a steering wheel that does not permit left turns.
I think it's interesting that MS is talking about a $100 PC. It seams they would want there $30+ for the OS part so that means the PC would be ~$70. Wouldn't that be a fun machine to use running windoze?!?
My understanding of the Thai market is that most computers come with Windows Me, because it is cheap. Very few people actually use Me. Instead they wipe the drive and install a pirated version of XP.
So Microsoft just went to all this trouble to develop a whole new OS version that people are just going to wipe and replace with pirated XP. Why make SE, when Me was aleady allowing MS to making a small amount of money on the sale new computers.
It is odd.
Yes Patronizing is what the whole concept is.
This is intended to combat piracy in those countries where it is rife.
It goes something like this:
Users - "We would like to buy your software but since you are charging the equivalent of a year's wages for it, it's difficult for us"
MS - "Ahh we understand completely, have this knobbled version for only HALF a year's wages, no piracy excuses now"
Users-"Hmmm, I think I saw a full copy for $5 down the street somewhere..."
I would personally prefer Windows XP Less Bloat Edition. Cut out all those extra features that make Windows slow as a dog. The only reason people who know theres a better alternative use Windows is for application compatibility. To use the applications that dont support other OS's. As for the low-cost computers in Asia, manufacturers how about you pocket the money for the license for the Starter Edition and just use Linux. Its free, easy, and a far better alternative.
It's so much easier to use a keygen and download xp pro volume licensing one time and then image it to a million pc's. /me weighs options: Free full version or limited paid version
It's so tough for me to decide.
Hmm think I'll just go get the torrent.
They have the same attitude that people have here.
I feel it's necessary to clarify this. Starter Edition is not a cheap alternative to XP Home; it's supposed to be for people who have never used a computer before. Ever. In fact, look here -- it's maximum resolution is 800x600 (that's XP Home/Pro's minimum supported resolution!) and it only allows three programs to run at once. But it has other features geared to people who are basically afraid of computers.
Of course, people who can't even use XP Home or OSX are probably not eager to use computers at all, so the market for this is understandably minimal.
~CGameProgrammer( );
Hey, it only takes an IQ of 50 to be able to avoid spyware, but let's conveniently ignore that, because Linux is the *BEST*!1!1! OMG
I dont think there's anything about "undocumented system calls" when it comes to remote desktop/terminal services.
VNC is just a lot less efficient because all it does is find ways to compress bitmaps of your screen and send them to the client.
RD on the other hand doesnt just do screengrabs, it takes the system calls to draw the screen and pushes that through to the client. Like an X session. Then the client draws the screen. That's a lot less bandwidth.
Considering there is an RD client for unix which is free (if not open source) then I seriously doubt this uses any "secret" technology. An RD clone should be possible, but with VNC where its at, its overkill. Not to mention commercial apps.
Modern VNC variants do pretty well, but because they are essentially graphic compressors they will use more bandwidth. Over your local LAN you wouldnt even notice a difference between the two.
If your RTFA, it implies that the Starter edition is not taking off because the vendors are still loading the XP Home version instead.
So, it's not saying that sales are declining, they're just opting for the more expensive product. They're not getting the cheap one.
-David
Instead of Windows XP Starter Edition,
it should be Windows XP Slow Starter Edition.
Windows XP differs from 2k3 and 2k pro differs from 2k advanced server largely based on how many incoming connections it can support. Even Mac OSX is, where OSX server is not - both Apple and Microsoft has limited their desktop OS's to 10 simultaneous incoming connections. This is just a far more restrictive version of the same thing, this time with outbound connections. Really, I can't understand why they think people will pay sixty bucks or whatever for this if they have pirated Windows XP SOLD IN STORES ON THE STREETS IN PLAIN DAYLIGHT for less than a dollar US ;)
I haven't posted in so long, my sig is out of date.
you can't squeeze blood from a stone would seem to apply here. Despite what you've written, sit down and take a hard look at the insanity of spending money trying to find ways to extract said liquid from said stone.
The market simply will not support MS's software, despite the demand for it, priorities for the people are right where they should be. -Removing- features from a piece of software will not cause it to rise higher in the priority list, at least not in the same way as a sports car would cause youth in America to cut corners elsewhere to afford it.
It's ludicrous to think that a market of subsistence will bear an extravagance like crippled software. The fact that it is available for free, uncrippled, is irrelevant.
I am not a big fan of the XBox myself, and have not bought one (PS2 works plenty well for me).
But you can see they have really gained a lot of mindshare, and I think if they do not screw things up too badly XBox 2 will at least surpass Nintento.
Obviously no way they are even getting close to Sony, but they are turning a profit now and I think the new XBox will be healthier from the start.
So if you are looking for anything they have done right, the choice to go forward with that looks like a good one compared to other choices they have made...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Tear network cord out of wall, plug socket with gum.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
What is not piracy: you copy some CDs to your friend, for free.
I think Microsoft should spend 100 billion dollars to develop a new operating system, codenamed Doors, which will actually be a bug-for-bug duplication of all the functionality of all versions of Windows and DOS going back to the first days of Microsoft, done by programmers writing code in BASIC and having no access whatsoever to the code for any of Microsoft's other products. This operating system would then have flawful technologies hacked into it as an afterthought to limit its functionality, after which it would be offered in Asian markets for 500 times the price of Microsoft's normal software. Obviously, this won't sell at all, which is exactly the point, as Microsoft will be able to point fingers at Linux and software piracy as the reasons for "irreparable harm" to their business, forcing Congress to outlaw these hacker's tools.
I still feel Longknob would have been a better name for their new OS
I though that at last this may be my chance to buy original Windows (instead of buying pirated Windows). But looking at the specs (especially MAXIMUM RAM 128MB), it put me down. No way I would buy this crap! I'll continue using pirated Windows forever and ever...
Considering that Knoppix fits on one disc, that sounds more cost-effective to me.
Here's Window XP Starter Edition. It's crap but it's better that a pirate copy of XP Pro! Honest!
XP Home has a maximum of 5 simultaneous file-sharing connections, and XP Professional has 10, but there is no restriction on TCP/IP connections.
It's not something that I was aware of until recently, when I moved a load of files to a workstation for other users to share whilst I was carrying out work on a server. It's a real pain in the backside, but I can see why it's there - if it wasn't, for many small businesses, there'd be no real reason to go for a server edition of Windows.
... would be quite cool for all the folks booting windows for games only ;-)
...
But it won't happen
Bye egghat.
-- "As a human being I claim the right to be widely inconsistent", John Peel
Well that must explain it. There are millions of infected PCs. The people who own these PCs have an IQ below 50. This means there are millions of people with IQs below 50 who own computers. These people choose to use Windows. It's clear that people choose Windows because they have an IQ below 50.
QED.
Try playing games, besides Solitaire, on your Windows machine.
Oh sorry you have the wrong brand of CD-ROM for the copy-protection du jour.
many of the posts so far are asking, "who would buy a crippled 'starter' version when they can get the full version bootleg for less, or even free?"
well, i have an answer for that: people with a conscience. people who care about right and wrong. are there any of those left (especially in the USA), or am i the last?
8-P
(for the record, i use openbsd.)
if i'm a grammar nazi, you're an illiteracy nazi.
Even Microsoft can't compete against it's own product, that beat which is Windows XP Pro...
Visit London Scalextric Club
That's the answer! Sounds good!
It was successful enough to spin off a shareware parady. Pretty sure it wasn't called "Billy Bob" but that was the flavor. Click the dead possum on the wall for one thing, the XXX jug for another, the outhouse through the window for trash.
_Almost_ funny enough to actually use. Similar to the original product in that way.
The wisdom is that if Microsoft product isn't excellent, it's their marketing that's excellent, right?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
They could call it shorthorn...
Great, now two different branches of the spam industry will team up to see if I want to upgrade my "shorthorn" for cheap.
So, does that make it Microsoft's "Bob" for the new millenium? You'd think they would learn from past experience.
Hopefully Microsoft takes note of this, considering the millions of wasted research and development dollars they've spent on this Starter Edition. I'm hoping someone over there sees the numbers and goes "holy shit, how did that happen?" and learns a few things about both domestic and international software markets.
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
Every single time I had to use XP-Home I ended up bald and red from frustration as I was quickly reminded of how much artificially crippled XP-Home is compared to "Pro".
A few years ago, Micro$oft was saying they wanted to move everyone to the NT kernel so they would have only one architecture to support... but now that they have started forking/crippling/customizing it every which way, support nightmare must not be too far down the road.
To me, XP-Home is psychological cruelty and I dare not imagine what would happen if I got stuck having to use XP-Starter... (I'd probably use it to download a random Linux distro, burn that and junk Starter ASAP - artificially crippled products is one of the top things that really piss me off.)
In other words bullshit, probably bullshit, possibly bullshit, bullshit, and absolute bullshit.
It supports a maximum of 128MB of RAM (really!) and a maximum 40GB of disk drive space. So they're designing and pricing the OS to be for extremely cheap low-end computers for total computer newbies, and they're inducing the limitations to ensure it's useless for anyone else. They actually are purposely making it inferior to any other OS to try to keep it used only for its intended purpose and audience.
~CGameProgrammer( );
I have win 2003 server at home(security reasons and less "user friendly" annoying interface). Crappy indeed. I start/stop my computer at least once a day. Services start to fail a proper start after about a month, things such as pushing the "start>shutdown" button twice to turn it off once is common. For installing a firewall or antivirus you need restart, for installing a critical update you need restart. I can't imagine a critical server having to stop and reboot whenever the mouse pointer moves to "make the necesary changes"?!?!
:o)
How the.. beeep.. is Ms server better and cheaper than linux?!?
Now about the topik.. I'm in one of those countries where Ms should also be shipping Windoze for "free". Here a monthly wage is between 100$ and 200$ USD for about 60% of the people. So it's tough buying the computer... no chance of WindowsOS.
And if Ms would decide to apply this "starter solution" here I'd move to linux completly.
I'm still on windows because of things such as Borland C Builder, Borland Delphi, MatLab, AutoCad, and a few other minor things.
I'd save and get Suse 9.2.