And for those who do not want PHP (I, personally, am not averse to PHP, so pls don't flame me) or otherwise too, can look at openCRX. It is a J2EE based app & can be built for high scalability. To change its code though you need to know UML! Its built on openMDX, an open source MDA tool. Only, I haven't been able to figure out which open source UML tool is right for working with the UML they provide.
Yes, its an apples to oranges comparison. Not my fault, the GP did that & I didn't know what to compare it with:)
OTOH, you will have to agree that its gonna be a lot cheaper provided its successful. As some other said, lets come back to discuss after the successful launch.
In the meantime, lets just agree on the fact tht ISRO is more cost effective than NASA or ESA wrt transportation costs. Even NASA & ESA admit that:)
Eh? India is building the craft, USA is building the sensor & India wants only the data from the sensor. Not the money to build or send the sensor nor the know how about building the sensor. Only the data from the sensor. Seems reasonable to me. Data from the sensor is for science, data about the sensor is for technology.
The Apollo missions got 47,900 kg to the moon for $2.75 billion in today's money. That's $57,411/kg. Let's say the Indians can do it vastly cheaper: $25,000/kg. Wrong, ISRO wants to do it for a mere $0.075 Billion. The launch vehicle is 316 tonne, with the spacecraft weighing 1304 kg at launch and 590 kg at lunar orbit. TThe scientific payload has a total mass of 90 kg and contains six Indian instruments and six foreign instruments. A total of 296394 KGs. That comes around to $236/kg!
From the official FAQ on Chandrayaan -I:
The budgetary estimate for realising the proposed Indian lunar mission Chandrayaan-1 stands at Rs. 386.00 crores (about $76 million). This includes Rs. 53.00 crores (about $11 million) for Payload development, Rs. 83.00 crores (about $17 million) for Spacecraft Bus, Rs. 100.00 crores ($20 million) towards establishment of Deep Space Network, Rs. 100.00 crores ($20 million) for PSLV launch vehicle and Rs. 50.00 crores ($10 million) for scientific data centre, external network support and programme management expenses. Assuming it would cost the same for Chandrayaan - II too (even though the expenditure on the Deep Space Network establishment & scientific data center will not recur), $76 Million is a pittance against Apollo's $2.75 Billion in today's money.
Let's say the robot weighs the same as Spirit and Opportunity (the current Mars rovers): 175kg. So the cost to get the robot to the moon would be $4,375,000, completely discounting the cost of the rocket itself, the payload container, the landing mechanism, support personnel, etc, etc. As per this news ISRO wants the rover to be between 30 - 100 KGs, which is way lesser than 175 KG of Spirit & Opportunity. And the rover's fare to the moon will come out to be between $7100 to $23630. That's certainly cheaper than the cost of the rover ($50000) who's prototype has been built by IIT-K as per TFA!
Practical upshot: they could easily spend 10 times as much on the robot and only increase the cost of the mission 11%. And once the real costs are taken into account, the increase would probably be negligible ( 1%).
That's why NASA spends so much on the robot: a) it's incredibly expensive just to get the robot anywhere and b) if the robot screws up once it's there, the bulk of the money was completely wasted, so making the robot robust & reliable is very important. Fiddlesticks. That's why NASA is hitch hiking for free on Chandrayan - I. India does seem to have better brains, sharper accounting and a bigger heart, considering the embargoes that USA had put on India. And yeah, they gave zero for free without any royalties;)
Well, how much does it weigh? Its supposed to weigh in between 30 to 100 KGs as per the intentions of ISRO in this article --> http://www.hindu.com/2007/01/04/stories/2007010401 342200.htm
If a robot costing ten times as much weighs 10% less and does the same job, you've saved money. Getting there is the costly thing, compared to that design and construction is a trivial amount of money. Yes, and that is exactly why ISRO is trying to make the cab fare cheaper. If they get the rover for cheap too, then why not give it a shot? And yeah, your case for making it lighter at the same time makes for a triply superb idea. Am sure they would take it into account. ISRO might not be NASA & IIT may not be MIT, but they are no dullards either. Give them some benefit of doubt.
ISRO [Indian Space Research Organization - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Space_Research _Organisation%5D, and India's Space & Atomic Energy research in general, has been targeting self sufficiency by indulging in indigenous research & manufacturing capabilities, including the whole supply chain. India owes wrt the science [For eg., Sir Newton did come up with some workable equations/formulae for these kinda stuff]. But wrt technology India has tried to or has had to be self sufficient, especially due to the embargoes placed on it wrt "rocket"eering. And because of the whole supply chain coming from within India, they are able to do everything for pretty cheap. The cab/taxi bill to moon is going to be a fraction of what NASA & ESA can manage with their indigenous achievements.
NASA & ESA are being offered to send their payload (some kinda sensors) FREE of cost on board the Chandrayan - I in 2008, only under the condition of equal access to data from those sensors. Even if they are not for free, they are an awesome lot more cheaper than if they had to send those on their own.
Anyway, it does seem decently plausible that there's not much of a rip off from NASA achievements, with ISRO being bent upon achieving self sufficiency.
Dunno, this might sound like a troll... but is all IMHO & also FYI:)
It is sad to see how the education system in US systematically reduces the human being to be a slave of its own tools!!!!
Calculators are there to ease our jobs, to augment our own mental abilities... not to replace them.
Here in India, traditionally we have been brought up on a tough regimen of mental arithmetic... we even have a subject in primary school for that! In this, ALL arithmetic calculations (+,-,x,/,%,^2,^1/2, etc.) is done mentally, without even the use of paper & pencil/pen or your fingers/toes/knuckles/whatever. All this thanks to Vedic Mathematics.
In our four years of engineering, we are not allowed to use calculators that can store functions in them!!! Why? Because we are supposed to remember the formulae/functions... this is good as well as bad... good because it helps us to try improve our memory... bad because most people try to rote/mug up the formulae/functions without understanding WHY the particular formula is used.
Communication being stated as a very important skill by more than one of the Greats was a definite surprise to me, since it is, IMHO, not addressed usually.
Thats the thing which almost all the just-out-of-the-greatest-college-with-the-best-gra des programmers seem to lack.
A CBT [Computer Based Training] module for OOo should go a long way to increase awareness about typing letters in it.
Most proprietary s/w vendors have a link called "demo" which does not lead to a demo version of the s/w but to a video which shows how the thing can be used. Most people on/. may not require it, but my dad sure would like it.
Also, even in a corporate world people use MS Office because its already installed on their workstations and can ask the person sitting next to them how to "bold" a word.
It is usually just one person who creates a template for printing a letter and the admin/HR person just has to fill in the values for the fields to get a printout of the letter.
So if one addresses training for these key people, (including the CXOs) I guess adoption would be more widespread.
the control group members' members were found to be shirinking, whereas the other group, which did not receive the informative mails about member enlargement, had their members' members maintain the same size.
In reality, given a level playing field, I believe the market will continue to speak and decide on the best browser, which right now judging from my logs appears to be Google.
[sic]Google is a browser??? Well then... I am spiderman!!!:D[/sic]
But what about the host of design ad R&D stuff on the hardware front that is outsourced to India?
India has the designing knowhow but not the manufacturing facilities (though even this is being rectified) while China has high tech manufacturing facilities. So why shouldn't the product be good?
So long western multinationals were using their shops in India to design the hardware and their shops in china to produce the hardware, all at lower costs which were not transfered to the customer but pocketed by the multinational. Now all of a sudden, the multinational is removed from the scene & the cost benefit is really passed on to the western customer.
So who wins? All except the multinational!!
Premiere of China and the President of India are Scientists, one a down to earth Geologist and the other a rocket shooting Space scientist!
About the topic... Could Chinese Hardware & Indian Software be married to produce the World dominating Tech Industry? Is it a mere whimsical dream of the Chinese Premiere or is it a real workable proposition to tilt the balance of the World's technological power base? As the wise sage said "Time will tell"!
So for the time being, they do seem to be working together to the mutual benefit of the two Asian behemoths. Also, if the friction is diffused the world has one pair of nuclear neighbours to worry about!
Re:Outsourcing made simple
on
Offshoring IT
·
· Score: 1
Pepsi, Coca Cola, Mc Donalds, KFC, Levis, Arrow, Carrier, GM, Compaq/HP, IBM, Microsoft, Oracle, Intel, Citibank, Amex, Fedex (etc., etc.).
Well this is not a list of companies offshoring work to India (some definitely do). Actually, this list contains the companies who market their products in India and which are the most sought after brands.
But at the same time affordable only by the "IT Coolies" who have "Stolen" US jobs, owing to the "BIG" paycheck they receive of ~300 - 500 USD/Month.
More likely that half of what these "robbers" earn is sent back to the US! So there, now you have trade, even if you refute that taking green backs in return of the services rendered is not trade.
Slashdot Mirror
And for those who do not want PHP (I, personally, am not averse to PHP, so pls don't flame me) or otherwise too, can look at openCRX. It is a J2EE based app & can be built for high scalability. To change its code though you need to know UML! Its built on openMDX, an open source MDA tool. Only, I haven't been able to figure out which open source UML tool is right for working with the UML they provide.
Yes, its an apples to oranges comparison. Not my fault, the GP did that & I didn't know what to compare it with :)
:)
OTOH, you will have to agree that its gonna be a lot cheaper provided its successful. As some other said, lets come back to discuss after the successful launch.
In the meantime, lets just agree on the fact tht ISRO is more cost effective than NASA or ESA wrt transportation costs. Even NASA & ESA admit that
Eh? India is building the craft, USA is building the sensor & India wants only the data from the sensor. Not the money to build or send the sensor nor the know how about building the sensor. Only the data from the sensor. Seems reasonable to me. Data from the sensor is for science, data about the sensor is for technology.
Oops! The total weight should have been mentioned as around 317000 KGs.
From the official FAQ on Chandrayaan -I: The budgetary estimate for realising the proposed Indian lunar mission Chandrayaan-1 stands at Rs. 386.00 crores (about $76 million). This includes Rs. 53.00 crores (about $11 million) for Payload development, Rs. 83.00 crores (about $17 million) for Spacecraft Bus, Rs. 100.00 crores ($20 million) towards establishment of Deep Space Network, Rs. 100.00 crores ($20 million) for PSLV launch vehicle and Rs. 50.00 crores ($10 million) for scientific data centre, external network support and programme management expenses. Assuming it would cost the same for Chandrayaan - II too (even though the expenditure on the Deep Space Network establishment & scientific data center will not recur), $76 Million is a pittance against Apollo's $2.75 Billion in today's money. Let's say the robot weighs the same as Spirit and Opportunity (the current Mars rovers): 175kg. So the cost to get the robot to the moon would be $4,375,000, completely discounting the cost of the rocket itself, the payload container, the landing mechanism, support personnel, etc, etc. As per this news ISRO wants the rover to be between 30 - 100 KGs, which is way lesser than 175 KG of Spirit & Opportunity. And the rover's fare to the moon will come out to be between $7100 to $23630. That's certainly cheaper than the cost of the rover ($50000) who's prototype has been built by IIT-K as per TFA! Practical upshot: they could easily spend 10 times as much on the robot and only increase the cost of the mission 11%. And once the real costs are taken into account, the increase would probably be negligible ( 1%).
That's why NASA spends so much on the robot: a) it's incredibly expensive just to get the robot anywhere and b) if the robot screws up once it's there, the bulk of the money was completely wasted, so making the robot robust & reliable is very important. Fiddlesticks. That's why NASA is hitch hiking for free on Chandrayan - I. India does seem to have better brains, sharper accounting and a bigger heart, considering the embargoes that USA had put on India. And yeah, they gave zero for free without any royalties
ISRO [Indian Space Research Organization - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Space_Research _Organisation%5D, and India's Space & Atomic Energy research in general, has been targeting self sufficiency by indulging in indigenous research & manufacturing capabilities, including the whole supply chain. India owes wrt the science [For eg., Sir Newton did come up with some workable equations/formulae for these kinda stuff]. But wrt technology India has tried to or has had to be self sufficient, especially due to the embargoes placed on it wrt "rocket"eering. And because of the whole supply chain coming from within India, they are able to do everything for pretty cheap. The cab/taxi bill to moon is going to be a fraction of what NASA & ESA can manage with their indigenous achievements.
NASA & ESA are being offered to send their payload (some kinda sensors) FREE of cost on board the Chandrayan - I in 2008, only under the condition of equal access to data from those sensors. Even if they are not for free, they are an awesome lot more cheaper than if they had to send those on their own.
Anyway, it does seem decently plausible that there's not much of a rip off from NASA achievements, with ISRO being bent upon achieving self sufficiency.
Dunno, this might sound like a troll ... but is all IMHO & also FYI :)
... not to replace them.
... we even have a subject in primary school for that!
... this is good as well as bad ... good because it helps us to try improve our memory ... bad because most people try to rote/mug up the formulae/functions without understanding WHY the particular formula is used.
It is sad to see how the education system in US systematically reduces the human being to be a slave of its own tools!!!!
Calculators are there to ease our jobs, to augment our own mental abilities
Here in India, traditionally we have been brought up on a tough regimen of mental arithmetic
In this, ALL arithmetic calculations (+,-,x,/,%,^2,^1/2, etc.) is done mentally, without even the use of paper & pencil/pen or your fingers/toes/knuckles/whatever. All this thanks to Vedic Mathematics.
In our four years of engineering, we are not allowed to use calculators that can store functions in them!!! Why? Because we are supposed to remember the formulae/functions
Or does that count include the modified lines of code too? Something is really phishy.
Communication being stated as a very important skill by more than one of the Greats was a definite surprise to me, since it is, IMHO, not addressed usually. Thats the thing which almost all the just-out-of-the-greatest-college-with-the-best-gra des programmers seem to lack.
A CBT [Computer Based Training] module for OOo should go a long way to increase awareness about typing letters in it. Most proprietary s/w vendors have a link called "demo" which does not lead to a demo version of the s/w but to a video which shows how the thing can be used. Most people on /. may not require it, but my dad sure would like it.
Also, even in a corporate world people use MS Office because its already installed on their workstations and can ask the person sitting next to them how to "bold" a word.
It is usually just one person who creates a template for printing a letter and the admin/HR person just has to fill in the values for the fields to get a printout of the letter.
So if one addresses training for these key people, (including the CXOs) I guess adoption would be more widespread.
the control group members' members were found to be shirinking, whereas the other group, which did not receive the informative mails about member enlargement, had their members' members maintain the same size.
This surely is an alternative at less than half the price of the pepper pad ($849.99)?
Mobilis products have already been covered in slashdot.
Yes, I guess, if you are referring to this?
A Russian astrologist who says NASA has altered her horoscope by crashing a spacecraft into a comet is suing the U.S. space agency for damages of $300 million.6 93.htm
. impact.sues.reut/
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200507/s1406
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/TECH/space/07/04/deep
In reality, given a level playing field, I believe the market will continue to speak and decide on the best browser, which right now judging from my logs appears to be Google.
... I am spiderman!!! :D[/sic]
[sic]Google is a browser??? Well then
But what about the host of design ad R&D stuff on the hardware front that is outsourced to India?
India has the designing knowhow but not the manufacturing facilities (though even this is being rectified) while China has high tech manufacturing facilities. So why shouldn't the product be good?
So long western multinationals were using their shops in India to design the hardware and their shops in china to produce the hardware, all at lower costs which were not transfered to the customer but pocketed by the multinational. Now all of a sudden, the multinational is removed from the scene & the cost benefit is really passed on to the western customer.
So who wins? All except the multinational!!
Premiere of China and the President of India are Scientists, one a down to earth Geologist and the other a rocket shooting Space scientist!
...
About the topic
Could Chinese Hardware & Indian Software be married to produce the World dominating Tech Industry? Is it a mere whimsical dream of the Chinese Premiere or is it a real workable proposition to tilt the balance of the World's technological power base? As the wise sage said "Time will tell"!
Curretly though, the traditional rivals are ready to bury the hatchet over the common border they share and also have set a target to raise the bilateral trade to $30bn by 2010 from the $13.6bn in the last fiscal. The two countried have signed a dozen agreements today, ranging from phytosanitary protocols to more open skies, and China is backing India's bid to the UN Security Council.
So for the time being, they do seem to be working together to the mutual benefit of the two Asian behemoths. Also, if the friction is diffused the world has one pair of nuclear neighbours to worry about!
for windoze hates wine!!
Pepsi, Coca Cola, Mc Donalds, KFC, Levis, Arrow, Carrier, GM, Compaq/HP, IBM, Microsoft, Oracle, Intel, Citibank, Amex, Fedex (etc., etc.). Well this is not a list of companies offshoring work to India (some definitely do). Actually, this list contains the companies who market their products in India and which are the most sought after brands. But at the same time affordable only by the "IT Coolies" who have "Stolen" US jobs, owing to the "BIG" paycheck they receive of ~300 - 500 USD/Month. More likely that half of what these "robbers" earn is sent back to the US! So there, now you have trade, even if you refute that taking green backs in return of the services rendered is not trade.