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The Best Graphing Calculator on the Market?
aaronbeekay asks: "I'm a sophomore in high school taking an honors chem course. I'm being forced to buy something handheld for a calculator (I've been using Qalculate! and GraphMonkey on my Thinkpad until now). I see people all around me with TIs and think 'there could be something so much better'. The low-res, monochrome display just isn't appealing to me for $100-150, and I'd like for it to last through college. Is there something I can use close to the same price range with better screen, more usable, and more powerful? Which high-tech calculators do you guys use?"
Do they make advanced graphing-calculator-like apps for them?
Even though the hardware might not be state of the art, its still the best: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ti_89
I use a TI89. It's about as good as you're going to get without it not being allowed on tests, etc.
HP is the only option. Sure, no one will no what you are doing (especially if you use RPN), but that means no one can borrow it, either. Oh, and if you use RPN you'll probably be a lot quicker than most of your classmates, too.
I have an HP-48GX and it served me well through high school and four years of engineering school.
"Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman
There is just something fundamentally appealing to owning a powerful calculator 90% of the population can't even add two numbers on...
I am billdar, and I approve this message.
You might be able to pick one up cheap on eBay or elsewhere, and spend the remaining $80-130 on something fun.
I would work without my trusty TI-89.
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I loved my hp 48gx... you could use it as a remote control or to chat via IR a long time ago before phone SMS existed. It also has a lot of advanced features, and games if you can get used to RPN. I'm sure HP has a nicer version these days.
I just made it through single variable calculus and chemistry using an old TI-82 and a TI-86, which I had from high school ten years ago. Both were more then adequate for calc & chemistry, and you can get them for $10 / $30 respectively on ebay. They had most of the same functions as newer TI's, and served me well.
My only difficulty was an occasion scramble to find where some higher level functions were, as the rest of the class had newer calcs and they couldn't help me out.
Just do yourself a favor, get an older calc (with an instruction book), and spend the rest of the cash on ice cream.
Graphing calculators are **WAY** over-rated ... what you really need is nice slide ruler!
Remember .. nothing goes better with a slide ruler .. than a nice pocket protector to put it in!
(Ok .. I can now get my former boss of my back ... He was always pushing slide rulers on the other engineers).
Might as well join in on the bandwagon of everyone posting their own thread with TI 89 (plus or minus a space) as the subject.
Frankly... People still use scientific calculators?
However, and far more importantly... I got a free solar powered calculator today and I'm unaccountably pleased with it.
Deleted
hp50g, its amazing and will be useful for a long time, but first understand the math behind all the operations it can do.
For me usually, the problem was not which calc to use. It was which one would the prof. let me use. TI-89
No, it's not "high tech", by today's standards. Yes, it's low-res and monochrome. But you know what? It's the best damned calculator there is (well if you want to get a GX/GX+ or whatever for more memory that's fine too, though frankly not terribly necessary for most applications). It's got a steep learning curve (RPN and all that), but once you get over it you'll have the quickest and most useful device there is. It's built well (I've used mine for 12 years and it's doing just fine), feels good, and does the job right.
This is one realm where you want a tool, not a toy - if you want something flashy and shiny with a nice screen and pleasing UI, save your pennies for an iPhone or something. If you want something that does math, and does it damn well, buy an HP calculator.
PS - I guess this doesn't quite fit your answer as according to Wikipedia they stopped making them back in 2003, so it's not really "on the market" any more. They are currently selling HP-49 series, which is still better than TIs but just isn't built like the 48Gs (the tactile feel of the keys really does matter on a device where punching numbers is the main use). Still, I'm guessing that 30 seconds with eBay and you'll find 48G's...
Especially when the HP48GX is the clear winner... /me ducks
I am billdar, and I approve this message.
I've been using my TI-86 for a decade. It's fan-fucking-tastic.
Try the TI-89. Hoever, I prefer my TI-58C.
Wasn't there a TI 92? I remember a classmate having one in college. It seemed really bulky and not many people were impressed.
I remember it not being any better than the TI 85, at least for that class.
Granted, I'm in the military and can't afford anything uber-cool in a calculator anyway. Though, I could get the Gov to pay for one, maybe.....thing is, for what I do (mostly modeling of an aircraft tracking program.....) I get by, with, would you believe it, a TI-82. For what I use a calculator for, it works. For the rest, there are programs on the computer. Granted the latter isn't an option for what you're asking, but.....for a HS class. You can probably get by, and I really don't know of anything better than, as another poster pointed out, HP's offerings.
Used and abused since launch.
If we don't fight for ourselves no one will.
Dude, I'm a grad student in mechanical engineering, and I have been using a TI-86 since '97. For highschool your not going to need a high power calculator, I didn't even use the graphing function most of the time anyways. (Although the built in unit conversion probably saved me more times than I can count). Most of the time now I use MatLab for everything beyond arithmetic. Not to be a jerk or anything but it sounds to me like you just want a fancier toy than anyone else in the class.
First Post?
The TI-89 is *mediocre* with drawing graphs, as you indicated. However, if you are going to study more science, it can do symbolic manipulation that you might only expect in a program like Maple or mathematica. If you are feeling dimwitted and can't work out an integral or maybe if you can't figure out if a particular algebraic equation has a solution then you can ask this device. It has more advanced features that I haven't used but if you tinker with it you'll get alot of use out of it. Also, as far as the graph drawing goes, I think they have a TI-92 that does better with those.
Simply the best calculator I've ever used!
I know those TI-83 calculators are monochrome, boring, and expensive, but buying a competing brand may make life more difficult than it has to be.
I used a tri-color Casio calculator in high school, and all of the examples in the textbook gave instructions for TI calculators only. I spent hours figuring out how to use my Casio every time I had to do a new type of problem. In the end, I don't think it was worth it.
When I got to college I bought a TI anyway - our textbook had the instructions for TI right in it, and I didn't want to risk falling behind because of my calculator.
... any self respecting nerd uses an HP-67. Get one while you still can. Those newfangled "graphic calculators" are for pussies ;-)
Consider one of the under-$50 TI-competitors that will get you through Freshman Calculus, then when you get to college see what's available.
Whatever it is, it will be better or cheaper than what's here today.
HP's 9g probably isn't enough but at $30 it's worth checking out.
Casio has the FX-7400GPlus for under $40.
Used TIs can be had for under $60.
The only reasons to spend more are if the time-savings are critical or if your school requires features these less expensive calculators don't handle.
As long as you are a student, don't do anything with a calculator you couldn't do in principle with pencil and paper.
Remember, the generation before yours survived high school and college without the benefit of graphing calculators, and the generation before that used pencil, paper, and tables. Most of them turned out okay.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I've used the TI's extensively and been very happy with them especially the 89. They're also pretty much standard throughout academia and many textbooks even come with directions in them on how to perform certain functions on your TI calculators. If you want a calculator thats good and handheld (the 92 I think it was is the same as the 89 but basically a really bad laptop) get the 89 if you're going TI. It can handle algebraic calculation over integrals and such as well as 3d graphing and is relatively easy to write custom programs (including games, I lost many hours playing a version of pole position) to do damn near anything it doesn't have built in, which means you can use reverse polish on it.
HP makes some decent graphong calculators but iirc they run on reverse polish notation which while very nice can take some time to get used to.
You may also want to look into just getting a pda and putting a math program on it but unfortunately I have no experience using them in that regard.
Of course all this info could be worthless since it's at least 3 years old.
I'll meet you at the intersection of "Should be" and "Reality"
I know at the UofA there is a calculator policy that dictates what calculators can be used.
... it allows you to see your equations as if written on paper, so you no longer need to double guess your brackets. RPN is fine and well for some engineers, but it is a steep learning curve, and realistically it is not THAT much quicker. Figure out exactly how much and what type of calculations you will be doing and see if RPN has an advantage. If you're doing integrals all the time, stick with the TI-89. If you're inputing 300 bracket a calculation, do RPN it will save you time.
I have used an HP RPN and a TI-89 and I prefer the TI-89 because of the "pretty print"
But you should check to see if any of your current or future classes have restrictions. I know we can't use anything that has any wireless capability (no laptops, phones, newer calculators) and we have two classes: programmable and non-programmable. That is if calculators are allowed. We are never allowed calculators in math classes (would make it too easy otherwise), but they would allow a slide-ruler.
The practical reality is that you will go to college and start taking math courses where each textbook will recommend a specific model of calculator. This specific model will be the only one that the textbook and the instructor will support in class. If you take a lot of math classes, don't be surprised if you end up owning three to five different calculators. Don't forget to drop your shorts and bend over when it comes to textbook prices. If buying a new calculator was bad, the textbook cost as much or more than the calculator.
I missed the days where you could get a $500 HP calculator to get you through four years of college and maybe graduate school while still being able to play Missile Command on it.
It's 12 years old, it's a little slow and they don't make them anymore, but the HP 48 series is a magnificent calculator.
RPN is very nice for long equations. Once you get used to it, you'll be more accurate and efficient. You'll never want to go back to algebraic entry. It has a lot of features, and still stands up pretty well to modern offerings. Unless they've made calculus problems a lot harder, you won't need anything more functionality wise.
The built in equation library is very nice. There is a plethora of available programs to download. The IR sensor is just cool and the keys have the best tactile feel of any calculators ever, and the batteries last about 20 months. Oh, and you could probably dip it in motor oil, and it would still work. The screen while having good contrast, is very fragile however. That's one bad thing.
Expect to pay $250 on ebay for a 48GX unless you get lucky. (The 128K expandable model. Original MSRP was $159 I think) You can probably get a 48G (32KB non expandable model) in your price range though.
The SR-40 is my favorite.
Ask around -- ask colleges you're interested in, ask your high school -- what you want is something that will be legal for tests.
Then, find the best TI that you can guarantee will be allowed pretty much everywhere -- or better, get your parents to buy it; it's for education, right?
This does not excuse you from having a laptop in college. The TI is for math -- the class and the tests. The laptop is for every class that isn't math. Put your calendar on it, put notes on it, and if at all possible, put your books on it -- I was often able to get away with just a Powerbook and one textbook, and by the time you're in college, you might not even need that textbook.
Oh, by the way, if you can get by without graphing features, do that for awhile. College rules could change, and this is a high school chem course -- consider if it'll be terribly inconvenient to buy a $5 non-graphing calculator, or even *gasp* consider not using one! I didn't need one in high school till I was pretty much doing calculus, and then, the class was small enough that we could just borrow a supply of the school's own calculators.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
You may want to check with some of your teachers about using anything more advanced than TI-83+. Higher calculators have factoring, differentiation and the like functions built in so they can be banned for use in classes where you learn these concepts. Just a thought.
If you want a handheld graphing calculator, the TI-89 is about as good as it gets. With a broad selection of pre-loaded applications and the ability to load more from a PC, there's really nothing it can't do. If you want even more flash, the TI Voyage 200 has a full (small) keyboard, but basically the same hardware features as the TI-89. I have an HP RPN calculator also and I like it a lot, but the HPs don't do linear algebra which pretty much excludes them from use in a number of undergrad courses.
If you're interested in just anything that can do advanced maths, you might want to look into an academic license of MATLAB, which runs about $100. You get a limited number of reinstalls and the license may expire four years after purchasing it, but it's a tremendous deal nevertheless. If only commercial licenses were affordable...
If you have the cash, why not install Mathematica on a handheld UMPC?
Special purpose hardware is dead.
Casio had some color screen models, but they were shit. It's always been HP or TI and the HP calculator division has been stagnant for a very long time. You're going to want a TI-89 or an actual computer running Mathematica. The last HP calculator I used was way behind the TI-92 many areas and I don't think there has been a new model since. If you have to graph a differential equation on an HP, be prepared to wait. The TI-89 has symbolic calculus, algebra, differential equations, ... It can solve up to second order in algebra and diff eq. It can solve most anything that doesn't require special functions like Erf or Ei. It's programmable in TI-BASIC, C, and assembly.
The higher level graphing calculators are REALLY nice, and are sometimes a boon in the private sector, when you have to do some really fancy math. However, they are completely impractical for school. In high school, you NEED a Ti-83. A laptop is too powerful, and they aren't going to allow you to bring it with you for a test.
But I am a recent University graduate. I think I had something like 1 or 2 classes that allowed me to bring a Ti-83 into the test with me. Most of my math based classes specifically disallowed graphing calculators for obvious reasons. They are just too powerful, and make cheating very very easy. I had to buy a $10 scientific calculator for University.
So my advice? Don't buy the best calculator on the market. It will just collect dust, and you will be angry for having spent triple what a TI-83 would cost, and get far less use.
But if you really do want a good calculator, then I might suggest a TI-92. My math teacher in high school had one, and they were so very very sexy. The big difference between a TI92 and a TI-83 in my books is that a TI-92 does integrals. Which is mighty handy. It even does Vectors.
Not sure why everyone's pimping the 48/GX. The 50G is actually the first good calculator from HP in a long time. The screen is sharp, the keys are good, it's fast, and takes SD cards. But if you aren't up for learning RPN, just buckle down and get a TI.
I too used an HP48GX in high school and college, but I don't think HP sells them any more. A quick check on amazon and google shows used ones $250 and up (one listed for $500 on Amazon). The much maligned (IIRC) 49G+ is listed for about $110, again, used. You're absolutely right that no one can borrow it. The easiest way to teach people was basically tell them to press the single quote ('), type in the equation, and press "eval". /me goes on the DMV website to see if RPN4EVA is taken ;)
The TI-89 is real handy for solving definite integrals where the limits are variables themselves. Takes a minute or two for it to trial and error a solution but it beats doing it yourself... Mechanical engineers are better off with a HP though, more software available.
Adding to the holy war; the TI-83 is a tank. My high school physics teacher would litterally toss them across the classroom for kids to catch. About 1 in 5 were dropped or missed completely, bouncing off the tile. All teachers are familiar with the 83 (meaning: they can help you troubleshoot it when you can't figure out how to do something) and it's allowed on virtually all tests. It may do less, but it should get you through any non-engineering/hard science degree at a 4 year school. If you go with anything besides the 83, you're going to have to figure out how to do certian functions on your own, as the menu system changes from model to model.
I have a Ti-86, which I got in 8th grade 12 years ago. It still works flawlessly. Luckily there were a couple of kids in each of my classes that could walk me through the menu system to make my 86 do what everyone else's 83 did like the teacher's example (done on an 83).
moox. for a new generation.
No question that the HP 48G is the one to get if you want something that will last. TI's or the Carly era HP's aren't as durable by a long shot. I have a small collection of HP's that has some models that date back to the 80's, and they all work quite well despite being 25 years old. One of the models I have is the 41cx which is distinguished for being carried on the early space shuttle missions for use to supplement the on-board computers.
If you do get a 48GX do be careful protecting the screen. The carrying case doesn't provide enough protection - I lost one because of that.
Save yourself the trouble and get and HP. I'm finishing up a mathematics degree, and my trusty HP-49G+ saw plenty of use. Sure the buttons started to break after a few years, but that was a common problem on the 49G+. I've heard that the new 50G has that all taken care of though.
The TI-89 is definitely recommended. Do not get a TI-83. The 83 may cost you $60 less, but it's generations behind when it comes to the features it offers. You don't need a 500MHz to calculate some equations or differentials, but you do need a calculator that is reasonably powerful (for that type of thing) and has the software to do what you need. For these reasons, I don't think you can beat the TI-89. There is a TI-93 (I think is the model number) but as I recall is just a TI-89 that has a small keyboard and a slightly larger screen.
Since you're in high school you may want to consider what is allowed on standardized exams. For the SAT calculating devices can not make noise or have a keypad. This excludes many top-tier calculators except the TI-89. You'll likely not need anything of this caliber for such exams, but it is still nice to have a calculator with you that you are comfortable with. You don't want to go into any exam where you are not familiar and comfortable with the device you are using as it may cost you valuable time trying to find the feature you need or the exponent button.
Last I checked the 89 is around $140, and it's definitely worth it. I think most people who have used it would agree that there is significant value there. I've used it throughout high school and college, going on 7 years now. It has never not been able to do what I wanted it to (I'm a computer science major with a math minor).
If you want a calculator that will take you through high school and college, and is allowed on standardized tests (SAT), you want the TI-89 titanium. You cant use an 89 on the ACT, but you can use an 86, which is by far inferior to the 89. Check with your teachers/math department about calculator policies, as most algebra classes don't allow you to use an 89. There is no one uber calculator out there, I really wish someone would come out with a really nice one... you can't graph conics on an 86 or 89 and that really is a disadvantage. Also, most classes don't allow PDA like devices or ones that resemble a computer. Happy shopping!
My TI 59 seved me well through engineering school. For graphics, I used the PC100 printer. I could even use up to 100 memories or 900 program steps which I could save on magnetic cards. I have the EE pack and the standard pack, small ROMs for the device. The batteries last quite well, needing to be replaced every 3-4 months yet allowing for nearly 2 hours of continuious operation. For longer tests like thermo, I just found an outlet and brought an extension cord. Hope this helps....
P.S., my wife made me get rid of one of the TI59s I had plus printer. I still have one (not sure if it works, but I mostly use Octave).
I have asked my professors that same question. At my university, you cannot use calculators more powerful than a TI86 until you are past Calculus. During lectures, the grad students also use TI calculators for demonstrating examples.
Another thing to consider is whether or not your chosen calclator is allowed on standardized tests such as the ACT or SAT. It would suck to get familiar with a calculator and not be allowed to use it on an important test.
I eventually chose a TI-84+ because it was the best calculator allowed by my Calculus class, and my instructors used them.
If you want to try out TI calculators, You can use an emulator, try VTI, I found it at ticalc.org. There are Windows and Pocket PC version available, although I would love to find one for my Zaurus.
My 2 cents
You'll need it or a desktop for many things, but not for taking notes. A paper notebook and a pen or pencil are all you'll need for taking notes. Why? Note-taking isn't outlining, which is what most people think. Note-taking is a mnemonic system. It is not transcription. Someone good at note-taking will make small sketches, use arrows, circle items, use abbreviations, and skip items of little relevance. Properly used, note-taking can act like a filter, preserving the things you think you'll need to remember from the lecture, while skipping those irrelevancies every lecture has. There is one final, absolute advantage to note-taking over laptop transcription (or taping the lecture, another rookie mistake): your focus will be on what's said in class, not on fiddling with your laptop.
Any model from this series of calculator is an excellent tool. (Except the HP48II, which is apparently a dog.)
The bad news is that HP's calculator division ain't what it used to be. The good news is that almost all HP calculators are extremely durable. I have personally worn out multiple HP calculator keypads, but it took about two years of heavy use to wear out each one. And by heavy use I don't mean mere homework... I mean 8 to 10 hour days at my job, where 60% of my job was to crunch numbers. (Yes this job was better suited to other hardware, but I worked with what I could get.) If you can find a used one that works at all, it should prove very durable.
If you can find one, a 48G or 48GX would be excellent.
(I am less impressed with the newer HP49 and its derivatives. It seemed to be a step backwards in usability to me, mainly because of the keypad layout. The all-important "enter" key is in a bad spot, and not double-sized.)
With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter. -- William Lloyd
I'm a PhD student in math, and I have no idea why anyone would want to give a student a calculator. Much less a graphing calculator. It's fine as a means of removing tedium, but students need to do a lot of tedious things once or twice. In the calculus class I teach, I can't think of a single aspect of the class that would be improved by having a calculator.
if anyone knows how to buy a brand new Casio fx-115s (never been opened from packaging), could you tell me? I've searched and searched, and since it's been discontinued, it's incredibly difficult to find a new one. I won't take used because of issues I've had with used ones before.
Not only that, but they don't have batteries to run down, or need an AC adapter.
Very useful for when society collapses and needs to be rebuilt.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
Although, I'm a little partial being a developer for TI and working on the next generation of calculators, I would have to say the TI nspire is the next big thing. It should be out next quarter. More to come.... http://education.ti.com/educationportal/sites/US/n onProductMulti/nspire_cas.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI-Nspire_CAS
No.
if you don't like RPN (which is a far superior way to do operations) you can dumb down your HP to TI Standards I never used the monster sized TI but my Hp48g did everything my engineering degree required.
It's a shame that the Qonos hasn't really taken off... it looks like there hasn't been any development for 2 years.
It's amazing how much computing power there is now compared to my 4-bit processor hp48 (it still rocks). If only there was a nokia770-like device with a decent keyboard, it would make a great calculator platform.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
I'm a graduate student, working on a Ph.D. in math. While the TI-92 is nice, you won't need anything higher than a TI-89 in HS. I programmed the hell out of my '86 in HS and used it up through AP Calc with no regrets or problems. The '89 has the handy ability of performing more symbolic calculations than the '86, but since you're familiar with other programs on your ThinkPad that can accomplish this, why waste the money?
If you're wondering why I got the '92, it was a gift when I graduated from undergrad from the math department, not something I purchased because the '89 was insufficient. Also, as mentioned earlier by several folks, the '92 is not allowed on most standardized tests.
seems to do the work well enough.
Get a slide rule. If they bitch about it tell them to suck it. A scientific calculator can't do anything a slide rule can't, and a graphing calculator can't do anything paper and pencil can't. 3D graphing would theoretically set them apart, but the 3D graphing on handheld calculators is pure shit.
ResidntGeek
Any of you guys remember this one? I thought so fondly of it that I ordered two from EBay. One of the first graphing calculators from 1988, I still use it every day because of its small folding form factor. Why has no one else done a folding calculator? My favorite of all time.
I recently got a TI-89 Platinum for use in several science (and calculus >_http://www.ticalcs.org/
Shiny. Let's be bad guys.
Bought it years ago and it's still cutting nicely through university for me. Good interface, nice buttons and a boatload of functions. It's also light and robust. It's been through a lot with me. The only obvious drawback is it doesn't work in dark. However, I seldom need to use it in a pitch black room.
I've found that having a good CAS along with a non-CAS calculator that everyone knows how to use is a great combo for going through the math required for science-related majors.
;)
The TI-89 and HP 49G+ / HP 50G+ are good graphing calculators with slightly higher resolution screens (but still tiny) that also have CAS's. I'm not sure about engineering where there's a lot of HP fans, but for general trig/precalc/single-var&multi-var calc the TI89 will do you right, as the output from its CAS is what you're going to see in the textbook 4 times out of 5. The HP's will work as well, but if you have a problem figuring out how to do something, get ready to run to the HP48 newsgroup, because no one in those lower level math classes will have even seen an HP calculator before, let alone know which flags to set/unset to get the desired functionality.
Then there's the aspect of teachers who refuse to let students use a calculator with a CAS. There's a lot of these teachers, especially in the lower division math classes. For these classes, it's good to be very familiar with a popular, non-CAS based calculator, and that calculator is the TI83+ or TI84, and no other. The TI86 is old, slow, and can't hold a candle to the TI83/84. These are fairly powerful calculators, and can do some helpful things for calc classes (and calc-based physics).
So have both, and learn how to use em. 83+/84 and a ti89/HP50G, and you'll be set. If you're aiming for engineering, I suppose having & learning the HP 50G is a better bet than a ti89. Or get all of em
Unless you're planning on being an engineer, like to talk like Yoda (RPN) or have some strange desire to play quake on your calculator, get a TI. (I think the 89 is the *new* high-end) You don't want a "good screen" or "more power" because they translate to shorter battery life. Few things are worse than dead batteries when you NEED it to work. (during a test perhaps)
People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.
The calculator itself really doesn't matter. You need to get something that you will be able to use. And honestly, calculators in honors chem really only let you be accurate. You can do most (over 90%) of high school work without a calculator. Doing so will also prevent you from forgetting how to add small numbers. Many a friend has fallen to this fate.
young-uns and yer fancy schmancy slide rules. my tables of logs, integrals and trig functions can whoop the candy ass of any stick-yanker.
Our teachers wouldn't let us use anything more powerful than a TI-86 because otherwise it had a lot of it programmed in, they also made us wipe them before each test. Those other calculators might not be allowed or may not help you if you have to wipe it each time, so find out if you have restrictions. We were limited to Casio and TI because they knew how to wipe those. If there's no restrictions, go for an HP or a TI-89. While the 89 may be monochrome, it's powerful and useful all the way through college and into the workforce. If there are restrictions, I suggest an 84-silver. It's quicker than an 83, has more memory, and teachers don't tend to care if you're using one. I used mine through college.
Yes, the Wang 700B (and 702 "plotter" aka daisy-wheel printer).
I acquired one of these back in '84. Amazingly, it worked! Love those nixie-tube displays!
http://www.wass.net/manuals/Wang%20700.pdf [wass.net]
A little heavy for portable use, but oh... what fun!
What?...A candle has only two ends?...
I remember when I got myself a TI-89 back in middle school and used it for a bit. It was nice to start with, but a few problems started surfacing later. In high school, my teachers complained that it was too powerful (as it can do algebra, a bit of calculus), and it was not allowed on many standardized tests. I ended up getting a TI-84+SE as a result of that. The main thing here is that some teachers won't allow a graphing calculator that is too powerful. That would basically be anything with a CAS. In order to make sure that you would be allowed to use your calculator, I'd recommend something among the lines of the TI-84s or TI-86s. The TI-83s are quite slow. I've had my TI-84+ SE, and it's been a versatile, fast (enough), and reliable calculator even throughout my multivariable Calculus class. As for physics -> it easily evaluated just about everything I need. Also, the despite having a low-resolution display, the text was big so I could easily read it.
Now, pushing the educational requirements aside... the TI-89s can do just about anything. It may be monochrome, but it can almost do my multivariable Calculus homework for me. It has a nice menu system, it can do stuff in pretty print (that is, the output is the same as if you would write it instead of in calculator notation), and it has a higher resolution than the TI-83's. However, I'd recommend that you wait for TI to release their TI N-Spire CAS if you really want something powerful. From the looks of it, it's going to do a lot more than the TI-89s.
From my experience, the TI calculators are very rugged and reliable. Despite looking limited, they do last a long time. I've thrown my TI's across the room and they've survived the impact. As you go on, you will find that you don't really need a calculator except for arithmetic (generally, you use it the most around Algebra 2).
As for the HP stuff - good luck trying to learn RPN. It may be better than the TIs at some applications, but for HS and college, the TIs tend to do the job better.
About $125 from places like Amazon and they've fixed the 49 issues with keypad. A worthy successor to the 41.
Be careful using a calculator that performs all the mathematics you're being taught in high school. If your teachers allow you to use calculators on exams, you can easily pass your classes without learning much at all. This will certainly come back to haunt you in college if you pursue a science/math/engineering degree.
That said, I recommend you buy the TI-89 and use its calculus functions sparingly while learning the subject.
It is much like the 48S or 48G with a very clicky keyboard. The only downside is the small misplaced enter key. The 49 and 48II were terrible.
The last time I seriously used a calculator was at university, 25 years ago. You don't use them in real life...
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
...is a computer with a decent compiler installed or a program like MathCAD or something. The worst is one that you intend to use to do your homework with, regardless of the number of batteries it does or doesn't require. Graphing calculators are for people who don't want to succeed in science, engineering, or math.
I have a TI-85 that is going on 10 years old. It got me through an undergraduate engineering program and is now serving me well in grad school. I wouldn't be surprised if you could get a calculator program for a PDA or something but IMHO that wouldn't be nearly as good as a dedicated graphing calculator. And if the price of a new one is prohibitive I'm sure you could find a used TI-85 or 86 for a decent price on ebay.
The benefits of a graphing calculator over any other option I can think of are numerous.
Everyone else has them, so if you are stuck on entering something it is easy to get help. Plus you can share programs.
They are extremely sturdy: My TI has been dropped more times than I can count and it lives in my bookbag, jammed in unceremoniously among pencils and pens, notepads and all other kinds of dirt and crud. Try doing that with a PDA and see how long it lasts.
It is a dedicated math computer; All the buttons and programs are specifically dedicated to math and science. A PDA for example would be a pain because you would constantly have to be working through a device that was not intended specifically for math functions.
Graphing calculators are allowed for virtually all testing that allows calculators in the US. Some other device, especially one that can communicate like a PDA would very likely be banned.
In the end as someone that has been working in academia for over 7 years now I can tell you that if you are serious about a portable device specifically for math and science use the only real option is a graphing calculator. Most people I know have TI's, but as others have mentioned HP is another option. If cost is a factor look for a used one, but keep in mind this a device that could serve you for well over 10 years, from that standpoint $100 bucks is a small investment. If what you need is something for more hardcore math you will obviously have to go with a program like Matlab. But that is a somewhat different application.
I purchased a 48SX calculator back in 1990 for algebra 2. It's hands down the best graphing calculator ever made.
In 2001 or so while working for HP I decided to use the employee discount to purchase a 49GX. When it arrived, I found that it was indeed faster than the 48, but its button feel was far inferior, so I returned it for a refund.
If you want to buy my 48SX, I'll sell it to you for $1,000,000. No, I'm not kidding. If you want mine, you'll have to pry it from my cold, dead fingers or shell out some major cash. I will never buy another calculator.
Classic HP 15C. Graphing is for sissies. Best form factor ever (sideways, punch with both thumbs)
Maybe a 48SX if you really need graphing.
RPN forever!!!
Not entirely sure why you want a calculator with a high-res screen and not monochrome and all that jazz. But while you're on the topic of good calculators I cannot do enough to recommend Casio graphic calculators over TI.
At one point I forgot my calculator and had to use a friend's TI. The things are abhorrent and horribly non-intuitive, not to mention they do completely brain-damaged things like putting menus for entering specialised commands over the screen, so by the time you've found the menu you need you can't remember what you wanted it for. Among other things that don't come to mind because my memory has shut them out.
In any case it was hell, and I did not forget to bring my calculator after that.
And as for the people talking about programs in maths textbooks being in a particular calculator's language... if you're doing an engineering/mathematics course and you can't rewrite the program for your calculator's language then there's something wrong with you. Not to mention that throughout the entirity of my schooling I don't believe we used ANY of the programs that were in the textbooks, rendering the language of them irrelevant.
Don't take me wrong - the HP is a beautiful machine that I have very fond memories of, but for any more serious stuff it is extremely outdated and insufficient.
There may still be use for calculators for the basic stuff in high school and perhaps early college, but don't expect it to be useful for very long.
As someone who taught a couple freshman level college math courses I would recommend a Ti-86 or I-89.
TI 92's you won't be allowed to use on most exams.
Most professors will also not let you use a PDA on an exam. Especially given that you can check your e-mail and IM your friends with it.
I love HPs- durable as hell, wonderful feel and once you get used to RPN is really is much faster. My old 11-C is still going strong ~25 years after I bought it. I managed to break a 28S after about fifteen years and bought a -48 to replace it from ebay. Skip the -49 series: I bought one and it's junk compared to the older models.
But if you want serious number crunching/graphing, nothing hand-held is going to come close to what a good symbolic algebra/modeling program can do. They are much more flexible, 1000x faster and you can display the results on huge screens. Think carefully before buying a calculator loaded with bells and whistles that will be a mediocre calculator as well as a mediocre grapher/solver. (Yes, I'm looking at you, TI line)
And if you *really* want geek cred, learn a slide rule. It's not hard to do simple calculations and you'll floor people if they see you actually work one.
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
For NC HS students. They cost $100.
the TI is the best deal out there for college mathematics. has been for the past 15 years. a Palm has more processing power and a better display, but it lacks the software to drive it. And when I went to college (10 years ago) all the courses were geared towards specific models of TI. You could optional take courses geared towards Maple and do your homework in the computer lab or buy a student edition of Maple.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Not to sound like a codger, but my HP48 graphing calculator from 1991 ($200!!!) is still my #1 implement! I even have my crib sheets from Field and Wave Electronmagnetics still tucked in the pouch.
:-)
I don't think you have to worry about how long it will last, or academia inventing some new math that your calculator won't do.
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
Yah, I know that you said you wanted something cool with wistles and bells, but its only a calculator. I have had my TI-86 for 7 or 8 years. It is still in nearly perfect condition. So if you are looking for something that lasts go TI-86, plus you can get Mario Brothers for it.
Disclaimer: I got a Ti-89 after college and absolutely love it and highly recommend it but don't actually need it. I got through college with a cheapo Casio scientific calculator for most things and it fits in a pant pocket. (...shut up) For eveything else there was Mathematica and Matlab.
I did high school in India and we weren't allowed calculators at all. This doesn't make us hardcore - I'd have used one happily if I'd been allowed to. It did force us to get comfortable with math. My math teacher was superb and emphasized thinking about a problem before you started it. He'd make us write down what we expected as an answer before we started a problem - order of magnitude, functional form, maybe a sketch of what we'd expect the function to look like. I think this has helped us immensely.
I've a slight issue with graphing calculators. I think most people who have them don't actually need them, or know how to use them fully. I had to tutor a lot of undergrad physics classes. My very first semester tutoring, I saw people relying on their graphing calculators even in Intro Physics for non-majors which is no calculus whatsoever. A lot of them would keep getting the wrong answer even after we sat and explained the process of what to do in review sessions. This was confusing - they were using a calculator after all, and worse they'd get upset and on occasion break down into the "Physics is hard" rant.
Taking a closer look, the people who had trouble were trying to "plug and chug" - trying to do every operation in one line as you'd write it down and get the answer. They frequently mucked up order of operations and got the wrong answer. They knew about bodmas but didn't want to actually think about what they were doing and just wanted an = something. I spent ages trying to get people to think about the problem and come up with an order of magnitude answer before starting the problem, or heck even think about what sign your answer should be. The solution was quite literally simpler. We tried getting people to use scientific calculators and the problem went away. On the smaller screen, they had to break their operations up and it took longer but it actually worked. Of course, they went straight back to use graphing calculators outside tutoring anyways... I'm also faster with the scientific than my Ti. Thats partly just practice but theres less hunting for functions because there are less functions period.
Even for majors in the sciences I'd argue that they aren't really useful (engg is probably a very different story) - if you are in the sciences your typically subject to at least a semester or two of calculus (usually in addition to AP Calc anyway) and will know the properties of common elementary functions, and thats a good chunk of what you have to deal with. Symbolic manipulation programs are way more useful in Physics, and no graphing calculator really does that well if at all. The Ti89 does (thats why I got it) but its more of a PITA to actually enter anything in it. The graphing on the 89 is also a PITA. Now I can understand using a graphing calculator to graph a really messy function, or do some numerical integration or some such. Several colleges have a Mathematica/Matlab/Maple or some other symbolic manipulation program license and they do it easier. A Mathematica student license costs less than a new Ti-89 and if you go to any professional meetings where there is a Wolfram stall they throw copies and free t-shirts at you.
What I'd love to see is a portable dedicated symbolic and tensor manipulation device. Something like Mathematica and Ricci or a UX-180p. Doesn't really have to be color - just long battery life. I tried the Ti-92 but absolutely hated it. Something like that size, except actually useful. That'd be sweet.
So you should think about if you actually need one. I really like my Ti-89 but I don't really use it very much. Last time was on a two day take home for quantum and our prof didn't allow us to use a symbolic manipulation program and that was a semester ago. But
Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
I'll have to reccomend a TI-83 Plus, or the equivalent TI-84 (an 83 with more memory and a faster processor). My 83+ got me all the way through high school, Calculus III (multivariable calculus) and differential equations in college and is still useful now.
You can't go wrong with a TI-89 either. Just don't get the TI-92/93 or any other with a QWERTY keyboard: you can't use one on the ACT or SAT.
In my chemistry class we need TI-83s, because we hook a device up to them that monitors pressure and temperature, graphs, and saves data tables of them over time on the calculator.
I'm a junior in highschool taking Calculus, and my ti-89 has served me well. It does symbolic calculations (a feature missing on the lower-end TI calculators), which is a real boon. I also find the interface to be much nicer than the TI-83 or 84. Also, it's the most powerful calculator allowed on College Board tests (e.g., the SAT), which could potentially give you an edge.
They're not particularly cheap (I got mine for about 120USD), but I think the investment over a TI-84 is worth it.
In the beginning the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry and is widely considered as a bad move.
I've had my Casio FX-9750G Plus for a few years now after my TI was stolen, and I really like it. Aside from it being WAY cheaper than the TI-83 Plus at $50 (the TI is over $100) and has all of the same features. If you need fancy calculus features it doesn't have them, but that shouldn't be a problem for 10th grade. The BASIC dialect that it uses is a bit different, too, but it's not any more painful to use than TI BASIC.
Well, I have a TI-89 and it worked fine for me... up until second quarter calculus (integrals, etc.) I found it mostly useless in everything else. In my higher division math classes, it's mostly theory and equations that involve brain power and algebraic manipulation more than computation and numerical methods (though you'll find the latter in applied math classes, which I'm avoiding like the plague), so if you're planning to go into pure(r) mathematics in college, forget about getting a hefty calculator and just stick with a plain old scientific calculator.
Oh, and if it IS computation/numerical methods that are being taught in a math class, usually it's all done in MATLAB or Mathematica, not in a tiny calculator which is cumbersome to program for.
"Hegelians, who love a synthesis, will probably conclude that he wears a wig." - Bertrand Russell
Hey dipwad...it's a SLIDE RULE. At least get it right if you're gonna make fun of it...
As an engineer I've been using my HP-48G for the past 12-13 years or so and love it. There are also decent emulators for the PC as well.
Dekker Dreyer
Calculators like the HP-48 & the TI-89 are essentially tiny laptops running math software. My TI-89 software reminds me a lot of MATLAB. You'll have more time to "explore math" if you push aside the toys, and load up the ThinkPad w/ cygwin, octave, & gnuplot.
http://www.cygwin.com/ (if you're not running Linux)
http://www.gnu.org/software/octave
http://gnuplot.sourceforge.net/
It's not like someone's going to ask you to turn in your calculator mesh graph of some x,y,z fn.
I was talk with a friend about calculators before some weeks. We was looking for a calculator to buy. Calculators aren't geek anymore. Before 10 years you have much more options to choose from. My Ti59 have more 200 scientific functions. My Casio have 2K and a Basic language. Now i expect to find calculators with symbolic manipulation, advanced statistic functions, 2000 engineering's formulas, LISP or Java languages, 125MB and big displays with student prices. And what we have? Palms with expensive software and not easy to use and large laptops.
What happened and there is no market for such toys today. Am i the only that i want such gizmos?
buy a ti-89. I go to a prominent institute of technology, and it's what everyone has. Also, if you want it to last through college, it won't, you'll need matlab or another math package if you do something in science or engineering.
while the TI-89 is a very high tech calculator, it has one of the worst learning curves of anything I've had to learn. I had to have someone show me how to get to the home screen just so I could do simple algebra. I still haven't figured out how to do a number of tasks that were simple on the 83. I'd write a program for every formula that was thrown my way on the 83, I haven't been able to figure out how to write programs for the 89. Graphing (and analyzing the graph) is more difficult on the 89.
The TI 89 definitely has more features than the 83, but there are only two of them I've ever had any use for (and I'm a CS major, one class shy of finishing a minor in mathematics). My advice would be to use a relatively simple calculator like the 83 for most calculations, and stick with the computer for more complicated math. If one device tries to do too much with a simple interface, it doesn't do any of it well.
Dunno, this might sound like a troll ... but is all IMHO & also FYI :)
... not to replace them.
... we even have a subject in primary school for that!
... this is good as well as bad ... good because it helps us to try improve our memory ... bad because most people try to rote/mug up the formulae/functions without understanding WHY the particular formula is used.
It is sad to see how the education system in US systematically reduces the human being to be a slave of its own tools!!!!
Calculators are there to ease our jobs, to augment our own mental abilities
Here in India, traditionally we have been brought up on a tough regimen of mental arithmetic
In this, ALL arithmetic calculations (+,-,x,/,%,^2,^1/2, etc.) is done mentally, without even the use of paper & pencil/pen or your fingers/toes/knuckles/whatever. All this thanks to Vedic Mathematics.
In our four years of engineering, we are not allowed to use calculators that can store functions in them!!! Why? Because we are supposed to remember the formulae/functions
-- Prem
Aiming to tweet on a rice
A notepad and a slide rule.
Seriously; one of those nice sliderules that has multiple scales for trig and hyperbolic functions, a few cursors and so on.
It involves more work than punching in a formula, but it results in great understanding and you can write, sketch, and work just fine on the notepad.
Really, if you're an engineer, or anything related, you want to _understand_ stuff. Calculating devices are not good for making you think how plausible an outcome is, rather than just taking it and running with whatever garbage you got.
Here in Australia this is the standard issue graphics calculator: http://www.office365.co.uk/im/pim/354946.jpg
It's very easy to use, has 3 colors so you can make out different functions which are graphed. You can enter lists and generate statistics, scatter graphs, manipulate matrices, graph functions, recursive formulae, do complex arithmetic, etc, etc.
But best of all is it has a very nice programming environment with an easy to use, rich API for doing just about anything you might regularly do manually (including all the graphing, matrices, etc, above).
You can write programs, store them, and execute them from within the "console", or just enter programs directly into the console.
The language reminds me of basic, here are two programs I wrote while bored back in high school: Game of Life, BF language interpreter.
// MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
I don't even remember when I bought my TI-85. I don't recall if it was in college or high-school. I think it was college. That being the case, I did just fine with a TI-85 all through college in all of my Math and Computer Science Classes. I was never one to rely on the tool too much. :)
I've used the Ti89 since it came out in Summer '98. To this day it is probably the most capable calculator out there. The most powerful (and most unknown) feature is the built in units. I was a physics major and nearly all the (numerical) problems dealt involved dimensional analysis, which could get pretty hairy in and of itself.
Unlike other calculators the units are built in. They aren't a scalar multiplication but a representation of a fundamental unit, such as length or time or mass. You can calculate (9_kg * 6_mile) / (1_week) and it will give you momentum in SI units (_kg * _m / _s). That alone makes it stand apart.
If you plan on studying (pure) math in college, don't worry about it. I haven't used a calculator since entering college. I used Mathematica a couple of times last year to visualize some vector fields for the differential geometry course I was taking, but even then it wasn't necessary, it was just because I was curious. In fact, I am pretty sure that calculators aren't even allowed on math exams, not that they would help you once you get past first or second semester calculus.
/, ^, e, pi, ln)? (given that you have some real software on you home computer that is probably orders of magnitude faster and more capable than anything on a graphing calculator).
However, you're still in high school, so you will need a portable calculator to do some calculations for science and math tests. I really don't see when you would be at a disadvantage with just a regular scientific calculator (i.e. +, -, *,
(No, it's not open source, but...) PowerOne Graph is a commercial program that got me through high school and college classes. I bought a cheapie Sony Clie off eBay and installed PowerOne. For $40 for the Clie and $60 for the software, the handheld ran circles around TI graphing calculators and I found it well worth the investment. It was quite nice to have a high-rez color screen and about double the features you'll get with a TI-89 (though do read the manual - it has slightly different syntax than TI's.) Using the stylus to do more work instead of tedious arrow keys was also a big plus. Two caveats -- it's not programmable, and you can't use it on college entrance exams or AP tests (so borrow your classmate's when the time comes.) Other than that, I found it well worth it.
Agreed by a longtime owner of a 48GX, a 28S and a 49G(avoid!).
If you want something more sturdy and is an example of US built electronics done well, the HP-28S does nicely if you're just wanting the RPN and CAS parts. The bonus also is that these calculators require a bit more thought into the answer opposed to just getting there.
Otherwise the pre-Fiorina era HP-48GX does well. The HP-49G and onward are just poorly constructed with no resemblance in anything but name to the HP-48GX - only the CAS & RPN features put them ahead of the others.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Got me through engineering school, and after 20 years, I still use it every day. It is just a basic calculator, but it has most of the advanced operations, including polar-rect, complex math, hex, oct, binary, basic statictics, deg-rad-grad, deg-min-sec.
And it only cost me about $25. I don't know if there is a modern equivalent.
I do agree that HP's postfix is easier to use, but I always used paper for my intermediate steps, which was usually required anyway.
My advice, forget the graphing and other crap. If you need to write code for your problem, you need a laptop.
Dave
I use an abacus, and paper. I don't need no stinking Graphing calc... sheesh.
Casio has the ClassPad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_ClassPad_300, which has a souped-up Computer Algebra System that shows equations in the same way you'd see them in textbooks. So integrals look like integrals instead of function calls.
It has a stylus-based PDA type interface that has the functions pickable from menus and on-screen palettes instead of having to fumble around with dozens of buttons and shift keys. It's also pretty nice for doing Geometry as you just draw the figures on the screen.
There's an SDK for it, and there's also a PC software-only version. The next release will have Laplace and Fourier transforms and Differential Equation graphing, which I would've never thought would be in calculators back when I was in school.
Two options:
Buy the most advanced TI calculator your school allows.
Buy a TI-83 Plus Silver. This calculator is fast and efficient, but wont do any work for you. Hence, you will actually know how to do the problems without it. Assuming a competent teacher, of course.
Ahh, good point! I didn't think of that when I was thinking about PDAs.
Casio FX2.0 for sure, rare, but the finest there is.
TI-86 are nice. Seriously, forget about any kind of symbolic manipulation or advanced numerical solving. If you have to resort to that sort of thing, either (a) you're not learning what you're supposed to be learning, or (b) you'll want to use real mathematical software, like Mathematica, Maple, Matlab or Octave.
When I went to college, we had to do our graphs by hand. How sad.
It's been a long time.
I'm not sure about your high school but mine required a TI-83+ or TI-84+. Any other was not allowed(most teachers didn't enforce it though). I was also told that I can't use the TI-89 on the SATs although that may have changed. When I got to college I was told I'm not allowed to use a calculator of any sort for anything. When I get to the high level classes I'm allowed to use one but we have Maple which is much more advanced then a normal calculator.
It also has some great engineering apps written for it and is allowed on all tests that the TI graphing calculators are allowed on. A couple of the beam bending apps were invaluable for checking my Strength of Materials course problems
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
I see people all around me with TIs and think 'there could be something so much better'
Wait until you see the math departments sold on them, and those who've come from such "contract schools". It's not good and takes unnecessary time to undo in college.
As it's been said before - HP is the way, the rest do disservice in terms of how they get to/give the answer.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Alright, here we go. I've used a number of calculators in my lifetime (and I'm not even that old at 23) and I can tell you that the TI-89 that I bought when I was in high school is one of the best buys I've ever made. Here is why: That low-res, non-color screen that you commented on earlier may not be the greatest thing for graphing, but to be honest, who care? One, it saves you a huge headache in the area of battery life (can you imagine having to remember to charge your LCD-equipped calc every night?), and two, if you're using your calculator for complex/3D graphing, then you're on the wrong platform. That's what your computer is for. The graphing function should be used for quick visualization. You'll be hard-pressed to find something else that works as well and fits in the palm of your hand unless it's a UMPC running MATLAB (I love MATLAB, by the way). I went through this stage at the beginning of college where I really really wanted to drop my TI-89 for something more... exotic. Also, I missed the RPN input functionality that I had become used to through repeated use of my HP32SII, which my dad gave to me in high school. That, by the way, is the greatest calculator I have ever owned. I once had someone offer me 300 bucks for it (they're no longer made). But anyway, I digress. I purchased an HP48GX and was sorely disappointed. Not only is it insanely slow (navigating the interface, graphing, performing calculations, everything else) but the expandability, established 3rd-party (mostly free for the 89) program base, intuitiveness of the interface and calculator language, and battery life were far superior on the 89. And, the fact that everyone seems to have one doesn't hurt. I can't tell you how many times I have both given and received programs that I have found online and developed myself to/from other 89 users. Especially in college. The symbolic manipulation and solver capabilities of the 89 are impressive and the unit is fast and has never given me problems. OS upgrades are a breeze and have brought new features. The USB interface works with both PCs and Macs. I really have very little negative to say about it. If you're looking for a power, easy-to-use calculator, the 89 should be your choice. Oh, and stay away from Casio at all costs. I've also made that mistake... (Unless, of course, you want to spend 20 minutes trying to graph y=x^2.) That's my 10 yen (I'm teaching English in rural Japan at the moment). Take it or leave it!
The TI-89 is useful for a whole bunch of other reasons:
* Quick factoring of integers, radicals, polynomials
* Term collection and simplification
* Handling of arbitrarily large values without loss of precision (esp w.r.t. factorials)
* Substitution of variables or expressions in general formulas (user-provided function)
It really can't "solve" very much other than 4th degree polynomial roots. It's really just there to help you manipulate a complex expression without making a mistake (but you really need to be doing the manipulations... which of course requires a bit of knowledge, don't it?)
BTW I distinctly remember adding the incomplete beta and gamma functions to my TI-89, and I think error function too. They would simplify to trivial expressions if they could (to promote further manipulation) or returned numerical solutions if so coerced. I thought it was pretty slick...
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Dayum. I don't know what's wrong with you people over there.
Over here we have something called 'No marks if you don't show your working'. It doesn't matter at ALL if you can just plug numbers into a function on the calculator and get the answer, because if you don't show how it's done, it's worthless.
Loophole in that you could store a program which shows how to do the working? Too bad that they wipe calculator memory as you're going into tests, so...
On a completely other topic, I suppose the people who advocate using slide rules and pen&paper over calculators also cook their meals on a campfire in case the power goes out or the stove runs out of gas? If it's a simple equation that you can't do in your head, let's say something like multiplying some large number by a non-simple four-digit number, wasting time with pen and paper to do something so TRIVIAL is just pointless.
I'm sure that some people will point back to the good old days where people had heaps of shortcuts for doing that sort of thing which made it simple. I'm afraid they don't teach those anymore because there's little point to it, because you have a calculator and you CAN do it on paper if it came down to it. Furthermore there are those of us who can't remember an entire phone number at once, let alone several large numbers at once...
I used to teach college level math at El Paso, and being a gadget freak I had half a dozen graphing calculators ...
The Math Department at U.T. El Paso used (at the time - 12 years ago) the TI-81 in their entry level math classes. You could use any graphing calculator you wanted, but the books were written for the 81 and (other than myself) the teachers didn't try to support any other models. However ... the Engineering Department actually required the HP 48 and enginnering students could easily get assistance from their department for that model. I personally had an HP-38 (algebraic model) and 48, a TI-85, a Casio 9850 (color) and an old Sharp model, and during the time I was there was when the TI-83 came out so I got one of those also.
The TI-83 and HP-38 were the most user-friendly, at the time the TI-85 and HP-48 were the most powerful. For some reason, the HP calculators have a lower accuracy - if you really need answers with 12 or more digits, but in real life you generally do not.
The highest resolution display is on the TI-85 and 89. I recently bought the new HP-50 (the 48 finally died) and while it is somewhat more user-friendly than the 48, the screen is still the same size and the accuracy is still the same. There are a few things that it (and the 48) can do which the TI-89 can't, but in most situations I'd have to give the nod to the TI-89.
The only color model (the Casio), the color is more of a gimmick than anything. It doesn't have the same level of features as even the TI-83. The HP-39 (successor to the 38) is probably the most under-rated model, its features really put it almost on a par with the TI-85 or 86 or in many ways better (though with HP accuracy and screen resolution) but it costs about $30 less.
Just to have an opinion here from someone who has actually used everything. If you want top of the line, that's still the TI-89.
Caught it as I was posting... *cares*, as in, "who cares?" Been in Japan for too long, apparently. Gomen nasai.
Don't get me wrong, the TI-89 isn't the best calculator out there. Almost every calculator mentioned above has more functions and more little gadgets. But the reason I'm suggesting the 89 is for two reasons- 1) a strong user base and wide variety of free apps for it, and 2) you can use it on (almost) any test that allows calculators. A lot of these mentioned above you won't be able to use on SAT IIs, ACTs, NMSQT, etc, but you can with the 89. It might even be worth it to get an 89 even if just for taking tests. Also, I wouldn't get anything with a QWERTY keyboard because *no* high-school teacher will let you take *any* test with what looks like a "mini-computer" (It's happened to me).
Its the alphanumeric keyboard on the calculator. Most tests have rules saying that a graphing calculator can be used provided it does not have a mini keyboard integrated. Why? Who knows. Using link cables and other means you can move whole books onto the 92, the 92+ and the 89 anyway. The 92 and the 89 are basically the same calculator with the exception of some extra buttons, a little better menu structure, and more memory in one direction or the other. Also the 92 does split screen much better.
It pales in comparison to HP48/49 series calculators though
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
Learn to use pencil and paper, remember calculus may someday save your life. Get the most inexpensive handheld calc which can do the calculations you need to get though manual work. Then use your PC apps to check your work.
A TI-85 worked well for me for two years of high school and five years of college science and engineering. I have not touched it in five years. Everything is on the PC now.
SD slot, 75 mhz ARM processor, plenty of RAM
The Computer Algebra System is also quite a bit faster than the one on the TI-89
If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
If you want to use your calculator for anything more than picking your butt, get an HP. RPN is essential for any serious physics or engineering use. TI calculators are flimsy and crappy.
If memory serves, I had an 82 until I took Stat and needed certain functions. So then I had to buy a brand new calc just a year after buying the 82. For that reason, I would recommend the 83 Plus. Not sure if the 86 has Stat or not...
I have been very happy with my Casio fx-7000GB which I have had now for about 15 years.
Does everything I want, even lots of easy to use logical operations on up to 32bit values.
-- The universe began. Life started on a billion worlds...
-- Except on one where stupidity was there first.
For an honors chem course in High School all you will need is a simple non-graphing scientific calculator that you can grab for $15-$20. Anything else will seriously be overkill. In fact I can't think of many chemistry classes at the university level that truly require a graphing calculator.
Very true.
But they are big & heavy, and take ages to write out. Slide rules are much more portable and easy to create.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
Supposedly the new 50g is an okay machine again. I haven't used it yet though.
Best Slashdot comment ever
Ok, not really, but it did last me through computer engineering college. I bought a nicer model TI-89 for grad school in Applied Math, so I think it should do fine for your high-school math. If you want to get ahead in advanced graphing, learn MATLAB, but use it on a computer. The TI-89 is actually pretty frickin smart. Sometimes it mocks me when I'm trying to fall asleep, though.
Kharma is like a boomerang. Mine is broken.
I never had a TI-89, but I had its bulkier cousin, the TI-92, and from the times I've played around with the TI-89, the symbolic manipulation capabilities seemed pretty similar.
Sure, Mathematica or Maple will run circles around the TI-92/89, but I recall that the TI-92 could actually do some pretty impressive things. I certainly found that it would symbolically integrate some things that I otherwise would have used an integral table for. It could also do some very hairy algebraic manipulation (and often reducing the result down to something nice). BTW, I don't recall just what basic functions it can integrate, but it certainly can do Gaussians -- I used my TI-92 extensively for prob/stat stuff where I was calculating Gaussian integrals quite frequently. I believe the TI-89 will do the same stuff (someone please correct me if I am mistaken), and it won't be so ridiculously bulky.
I finished my Ph.D. a couple of years ago so it's been quite a while since I've been in any situations where I've been constrained by test taking considerations. =) I use a computer for all that stuff these days. (Which certainly makes sense, since I'm a computational scientist by profession.) But from what I recall of the days when I was frequently using calculators, I don't think you can go wrong with the TI-89, especially since its use is explicitly allowed on a bunch of standardized tests in the US.
BTW, I also used an HP48G extensively in college. I've still got it and use it occasionally, and it has some nice features. And, yes, once you get used to it, RPN is pretty clever. I see a lot of people championing it in favor of the TI calculators on here, but I mostly think that's because of the geek style points it confers. The HP48G series is way better than the TI calculators that came before the TI-89/92, but compared to the TI-89/92 I think the HP48G series really show their age. My 48G is *way* slower to do complicated calculations, much slower in drawing and manipulating graphs, and its symbolic manipulation capabilities are a joke.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'd like to say that the TI89 wins this competition hands down.
Forget the symbolic algebra and calculus. It can play F-Zero and ExciteBike!!! How else could I have made it through high school if it weren't for my trusty (and quite sturdy) TI-89?
I tried to use one of these older HPs, I think it was a 48, and I had to give up. The screen refresh was so slow that it actually flickered, the first time I saw that on an LCD. It was nice, and I could have had it free, but I'd never use it just because it hurt my eyes after 2 minutes.
Then again I can tell you if your CRT is running at 60, 75, or 85+ Hz just by looking at it..
boldly going forward, 'cause we can't find reverse
Not like you'll listen to anybody anyway, but:
Are you trying to solve math problems or draw pretty pictures? What's your beef with the display on graphing calculators? How many REAL problems actually even require a graphical display? Do you know how many DAMN FINE engineers made it through life with nothing but a SLIDE RULE? (There's no graphic display on a slide rule, BTW.)
If you're just going to solve some baby algebra problems and you really think you're going to graph functions on your calculator during tests, then do yourself a favor and get a TI-whatever. You'll be really proud of your purchase.
On the other hand, if you're going to solve linear algebra, differential equation, symbolic integral, and vector/complex number/phasor problems: YOU SHOULD BUY THE HP48. There is no calculator better for real physics and engineering problems.
By the way, I went through differential calculus, integral calculus, multivariable calculus, differential equations, linear algebra, physics 1 (basic mechanics), physics 2 (thermo, baby-quantum, optics), physics 3 (electricity and magnetism), Chem 1. Chem 2, circuits 1, circuits 2, engineering problem solving, statics (that's physics and NOT statistics you unenlightened tard), relativity and quantum mechanics, industrial manufacturing and engineering, semiconductor devices, and a variety of other classes that use math WITHOUT EVER USING OR NEEDING THE GRAPH ON MY CALCULATOR.
In other words, the graphic display on these devices amounts to nothing more than "bling" factor and is really not useful for serious work. On those rare occasions where it would be cool to plot a function and look at it for some quick estimations, who the fuck cares if it's only monochrome or if it's slightly pixelated?! Go use a computer for that. By the time you're done dicking around with the display window on your graphing calculator during a test or quiz, your time is up anyway.
Sheesh.
If I seem like I have a bad attitude, it's because I know nobody is going to read nor adhere to my sage advice. I'm pre-bitter about it.
For almost anything you might need to do, a TI-83 would be more than fine. You can find them used for quite cheap. The interface is extremely intuitive - type in a statement and hit enter. Every single textbook ever written explains things in terms of the TI-83 interface, and every teacher knows how to use them. You could upgrade to a TI-83+ if you want better games, or a TI-86 for a few extra built-in capabilities, but it's not necessary. You can learn everything you need to learn just as well, and probably better, with a TI-83.
However - under no circumstances should you buy a new TI calculator, especially the 84 or the "silver" or "titanium" edition of anything. They're ripoffs.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
All i get to use is the sharp el510r http://www.grandandtoy.com/sites/CORP/ProductDetai lsPopup.aspx?productCode=EL510 and i am in second year university at uvic.
In highschool i was expected to have a TI-83 which was all i needed and more. By the end of the year, i didnt need to remember anything, because i had made a program that could handle every part of math12.
insight through the mind
I have been a frequent TI graphing calc. user for over 10 years, most commonly lately with the TI-89. Then after hearing the HP crowd, I bought an HP-50 late 2006, which if you do choose to go HP you may choose over the HP-48. I do use the RPN of the HP-50, but it takes much longer to get quick with it vs. the TI-89. I think even as a serious engineering calculator user, I'd recommend the TI-89. There are only a couple people out of hundreds of engineering students I know that use an HP48 or HP50 over the TI-89.
just get a TI-83+, i've used it since the 8th grade and its still the standard here in college
I'd suggest getting a TI-83+ (or 84+), and then buying Zoom Algebra. (Disclaimer: I work for them.) The TI-83 is allowed on more tests than any other calculator, and Zoom Algebra makes it far easier to use and more powerful. Most notably, it can do algebra, and show steps for any problem it can solve. Doesn't change the low-res monochrome screen, but it uses it a lot better - it can show fraction, exponents, and square roots much like they look in a text book. Also, it doesn't use an asterisk for the multiplication symbol.
I'm not a fan of math, so I owe a lot to my calculator for getting me through tough problems. The TI-89 is fast (can be overclocked) can do algebra, 3d graphs, and anything else you might throw at it. It is leagues ahead of the 83. I'm in college now, and the 83 is still the standard in most classes though they'll let you use anything. This calc is also allowed on the SATs and APs, at least they were when I took them 4 years ago.
Since you're in high school, you're going to have to learn to use THAT calculator to take some very specific tests no matter where you are in the US to jump through a lot of hurdles on your way to college, and I assume you're in the US. Your calculator as several have pointed out is just a tool for you to skip some rote mathematical steps once you have learned to do them yourself and formed that pathway in your mind, not to to replace your ability entirely. Our programs and such literally do replace things and create formulas that we actually can't come up with with pencil and paper in anything resembling reasonable time. So people have made great recommendations for what to do with your computer and I do think you need to do that, but for right now, you need to know exactly what calculator you will be allowed to use for your AP/SAT/ACT/whatever else they make you do exams and make sure you're fast with that. I know that anything with a qwerty keyboard is still totally out. And I do feel your pain--I dropped a chunk on my TI and that was just the way it was and it still is. Don't buy something new--find some graduating college kid and buy their TI 85 off them, it has calculus functionality and you'll want that later. Oh, and get the manual.
I'm at IUPUI and they don't let us use anything more than a scientific calculator for quizzes or tests for any class. I've got a TI-83 thats been sitting on my desk since I entered college basically.
ok.. so heads you lose tails I win. right?
I'm a bit of a jerk for replying already, but something people older than 25 aren't going to (necessarily) know is that they've written in entire sections to calculus AP exams and so on that require the use of a graphing calculator now and can't be done without them--I mean require in a literal sense, they are written specifically TO the technology. So, you have to be good at it, and it might just have to be the one your school uses if they have a class set.
If that is more than you need, get a TI-83+. TI-86s are a big no-no.
And if you care that much about resolution and color, you aren't looking for a calculator. You're looking for a PDA.
Chances are that when you get to college there will be a "standard" calculator used by the school. Teachers will use it for examples. You may even be required to buy it.
A real geek would get a slide ruler. Not only is it dead useful (like both the TI and the HP calculator would be) it will astound and confuse everybody else in any class you take.
I've had the new HP50g for a month now (started with a 42CV, own a 42S and 49g+). It's a huge step in the right direction for HP. My 49g+ is headed for e-bay, but I still use the 42S daily.
Whichever calculator you get, make sure that it's programmable, and that whatever programming language it uses is convenient to use. I would not have been able to finish any of my labs without my trusty TI-85 -- at least, not without spending several additional hours each lab on things like error propagation - but I ran up against its pseudo-BASIC-esque limitations fairly quickly. Keep in mind that there is no better way to learn some concept, than writing a program for it. Period. Once you are able to express your knowledge in code (er, in code that actually works, I mean), you have it down cold, or down kold, even.
>|<*:=
If you checkout spacetime from Spacetime Mobile, it is a really nice graphing (2d, 3d) calculator that does nearly everything i need up to linear algebra (including the four calculus classes). It's price has risen from $20 to $50, but it has also added features non-stop. The developer is extremely active in the forums, and usually takes into consideration what people are asking for in the next update. I see that some people have listed Palm's and calculator apps, but IMO, Windows Mobile has a lot more going for it, as well as a decent future.
Any of calculators are good, and most will do more than you will ever need. When in doubt keep it simple. I teach physics in college, and I can't tell you the number of times I see someone mess up a simple problem because they either use the calculator without thinking, or worse yet don't even know how to use it correctly.
Whatever you do, don't let the calculator become a crutch. I actually had a student tell me they could not tell me the integral of a sin because they did not have their calculator with them. Think before reaching for the calculator. I usually race all my students to the numerical answer in problems doing it in my head with scientific notation. Usually I beat the entire class, and most of the time at least half the class gets the wrong answer since they don't know how their calculator works.
When in doubt keep it simple.
If your teacher doesn't recognize it, you wont be able to use it on a test. Also I'm in my third year of college, and my calculator hasn't even made a good paper weight. Depends on what type of school you want to go to, but if it's for engineering, invest in a pad of paper and a pencil. :\
It sits on top of your shoulders, between your ears... No kidding. Please please please do not get dependent on a dumb little machine. I taught calc to (mostly) college freshmen, and they had become so addicted to the stupid things they forgot how to think.
Purchased a TI-85 back in 93 I think and it has been to hell and back in terms of physical abuse (I probably dropped it over 200 times, it's been crammed in bags with textbooks and dropped on the floor and now it rides with me in my laptop case when I go to/from work). One of the best things I've ever purchased as it does everything I need (although it may not be as automated as the newer ones), battery life is not a problem, I could use it in all my school tests, and it is quite rugged/reliable. I still use it at least once a week when I need to do calculations at work.
I was forced into a similar predicament in 1992. I bought a TI-81. Not only did it last through college, I am still using it now as I bumble through my PhD.
you probably wont be allowed to use an 89 until later in high school so I would get an 84 then when you can use it get an 89, just dont let it do all your calc work for you
I use an HP38G and I love it. It isn't really what you might be looking for, as the screen and such is pretty much tha same as the TIs. However, the TI 83 and 89 are pretty much the "school" calculators, which means the teachers use those for demonstrations and such. It can get to be a problem when they are explaining how to perform some task and I can't find the equivalent or can't figure out how to use the equivalent. So, I would suggest having a TI on hand in case you need it later in AP calc or AP physics should you decide to take those in the future.
for not producing high quality RPN calculators. Calculators are special to engineers and that can translate to a favorable opinion of HP as a whole.
I had a TI-85, which crapped out and then I got a TI-86. Everyone has a preference, you know, but there's nothing wrong with the TI calculators. Sure they don't do color, but you want a calculator, right? It calculates, it doesn't watch movies. I'm in a PhD program and I regularly use my calculator when I don't want to go to the computer just to back-of-the-napkin numerical operations. For sure I use Matlab more than I use my TI these days, but I would never consider being without it, because there's some operations I can do on it faster than with the PC and any software it has, such as computing the roots of a nth degree polynomial, regression fitting, etc., because I read the user manual *front-to-back* when I got my 85 back in the day.
Are TI's pathetic? Hardly. TIs and HPs are numerical computing tools that masquerade as adding machines. Certainly TIs (TI-92 excluded) are among the few calculators allowed on the AP exams. And if you get to access the assembly programming modes, you'll realize that you can turn the pixels shades of grey, enabling all sorts of cool programming endeavors and games. They're not exactly the PCs of today, but you don't need something that resembles the latest Pocket PC to accomplish the numerical tasks they advertise.
Don't sit there masturbating to the thought of buying a PDA or some overpowered $300 math Frankenstein that you can't use on any tests. Just get a TI-8x or the equivalent HP like everybody else and use it for the tool it is. They're great and last forever (I've had my 85 since high school and it still sits on my desk), and you won't be in for a shock when you show up to a standardized test with a Palm and they turn you away.
I like shiny things too, but this is just a tool to help you do math. Just get the same good one everyone else gets and let your brain make it special.
Game... blouses.
Sure, he could get the 92, which is more powerful (you can tell this easily by comparing how quickly the 92 can graph 3d functions compared to the 89), but they're not allowed on many college entrance exams, nor accepted universally by all teachers. I made my way through intermediate multi variable calculus with a TI-83 and a TI-86 for homework and borrowing a neighbor's 89 for exams. The main thing for /. to remember here is that we're talking about a high school student, not somebody that's doing graduate-level work. For all practical purposes, the 89 is more than enough calculator to get someone through undergraduate exams. Hell, I sat next to someone for my multi variable final whose calculator wasn't even a graphing calculator.
I absolutely agree. The HP48GX is an amazing calculator. Reverse Polish Notation (RPN) rocks...you don't need to enter in brackets with complex expressions which probably makes it 20-30% faster than other methods. The calculator uses a stack system for its calculations. To add 2 and 3, type 2 and hit enter to put it into the stack. Then press 3 and hit enter...3 also appears on the stack. Then press +. This adds the bottom two entries in the stack. With complex expressions, you start on the innermost brackets and work outwards. Because your answers are always visible in the stack, it is remarkably easy to evaluate expressions without ever rounding more than the calculator's precision.
The stack doesn't just work for numbers. It is possible to enter in many types of objects. Enter two matrices or vectors into the stack, then press +, -, x, or / and the calculator will add, subtract, multiply, or divide the two matrices, just as if they were two numbers. To find the inverse matrix, enter it into the stack and press (1/x). Complex numbers are easily handled by entering them as vectors.
The main weakness of my version is that it is a bit slow when doing things like graphing. The origin of this problem lies in HP's neglect of this product. HP used to be a highly innovative and inventive technology company. They made products that no one else imagined making, things that were designed to meet the requirements of technical professionals like engineers. Then the bean counters/MBA's took over. They sold off most of HP's innovative divisions (Agilent Technologies for example) and became primarily a maker of bog standard PC's. They stopped making the 48GX for a while, but brought it back after a loud outcry. The new version was however not quite the same as the old version. It feels cheaper than the older calculators...it doesn't quite have the same solid feel. Bloody corporate bean counters! HP has been losing money for much of the time since they took over.
It is a shame that HP hasn't updated this calculator. With a newer processor, and a few interface updates, this could truly be the ultimate calculation tool. It is still great, but if it were a bit faster with a more polished interface, then it would be perfect.
This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
Grapher (Mac OS X) is really cool, as far as I am concerned, ``it's a dandy.'' However, I do use a TI-89 and it's also an excellent choice. The graphs produced by Grapher are good enough to use in my LaTeX documents, whereas the TI's graphs are best left for quick observations.
Try graphing this: (x+y)(x-y)(x+1)(x-1)(y+1)(y-1)=0
I got my original TI-92 back in 1996, while studying mechanical engineering, which also involved lots of advanced maths. Since I knew that I was going to enter lots of formulas, I went with it instead of the the TI-89 (which is the exact same thing in a differnt housing), because it had a proper alphanumeric keyboard which made things easier.
What can I say, it was a life saver. It's calculating engine is based on Derive, one of the better known DOS maths programs back in the day.
Have you ever seen complex functions in "pretty print" on a TI-92? It doesn't come much clearer or more concise than that.
I even did the upgrade to the TI-92+, which basically only meant to replace some module in the back with something new. There's a big community which supplies all sorts of add-on programs and even a replacement operating system! Sure, it won't give you access to the Internet, but that's not what it was meant for.
The TI-92 has lasted me over 10 years now without any problems and it's still more than enough for what I need to do, so I think overall, it was a very good investment that paid off.
I loved my TI-92. It did pretty much everything, had a better screen than the earlier TI's, and was still allowed on the AP tests. It also had a lot stronger programming language for added flexibility. Check it out!
If you get a Ti-92+ or 89+, MAKE SURE IT IS A +, not the Ti-92 or 89 without the extra memory. You can't install most apps with the amount of memory you get with the non-plus versions. This is especially important if you get the 92, since they're not being made anymore, and the memory isn't sold separately (except if you get lucky on EBay), and it's $75 or more if you do find it.
http://blog.davr.org/2006/10/15/ds85-release-2/
AND it plays games.
I've got a Ti89, but at school they FORCE us to use the SHARP EL510R ($10)...haha :P
Having used (mainly) HP's for about 4 decades I would definately recomend them RPN once you get used to it is much more natural and intuitave than algebraic entry. Download and play with one of the RPN calculator that are available for both windoze and Linux probably the Mac also, RPcalc and PGcalc are two good ones , if you like RPN go with HP.
If anybody produced a TI-89, which had just come out, they said: "Leave it at home, it does all the work for you." It is what everybody in every college class used, and had used in high school, and the SAT's. You can use it during tests, because it doesn't do everything for you. And if you think they will let you use the TI-89, because you already bought it, you are wrong. They will say "Tough noogies, go buy a TI-86!"
True.
I graduated from the College of Engineering at the University of Cincinnati not to long ago. For both our calc and physic classes, we were pretty much limited to a TI-89 or TI-92. You could use below the TI-89, but it didn't have enough functions for the higher level calc, so it was pretty useless. I do remember some students would bring in other makes and most times (not always) they were not permitted to use them. The professors said they didn't know the models and were afraid they might have additional features which would permit cheating. Also don't go to high in the TI line-up. Some also come with keyboards, which everytime a student came in the room with those, the calc was banned. The TI-92 was pretty much the safest calculator which had everything you needed for both physics, calc IV, and beyond.
Once you get into signal processing, you will be using matlab or equivalent software.
HP48G here - I've had it for years and it's awesome.
Either way, it doesn't seem like the TI 89 is the problem here.
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
I seem to be in the minority here, but in my experience the TI-85 and its big brother the TI-86 have served me well from high school, degrees in physics, math, and computer science in college, and now through my Ph.D. research in nuclear physics. If you need to do symbolic algebra, integration, or differentiation in a real-world setting, use a CAS like Maple or Mathematica; in a testing situation there is usually a 'trick' that makes the seemingly impossible trivial. The graphing capabilities are for the most part useless after high school or introductory calculus. There is elementary linear algebra and statistics support, as well.
I vouch for the 85 and 86 as well because of their unit conversion capabilities. It's tremendously practical when you are working with real-world measurements (especially in the non-Metric USA!). A library of built-in physical constants helps too.
Not to mention, these things are built like a tank and sip the battery power. In my experience (and heavy use) I need to change the batteries less than once every two years!
If you want a multi-purpose machine, the Motorola 68000 based TI-89 wins. You can easily program it in C or directly in Assembly. An IDE for Linux and Windows is available at http://tigcc.ticalc.org/
I was forced to get a TI-85 in college when the calculus courses started requiring calculators as part of the ciriculum. I still have it and use it, happily to this day. The newer TIs are much better than my antiquated old thing (more memory, better connectivity, and Flash RAM for long-term storage), so I would certainly recommend the TI-89 Titanium or the Voyage 200. The feature sets and prices are pretty similar, but I would be worried that some professors or grad students might balk at allowing the Voyage 200 in an exam.
Lots of folk pooh-pooh the TI calculators as being inferior to the HP RPN models, but I have, as I said, been very happy with mine. You can write fairly sophisticated programs on them, and the newer ones even allow you to do some of the programming from a PC and transfer the program to the calculator over a USB cable. My only real gripe with the TIs (or any of the graphing calculators, for that matter) is that the displays haven't gotten much better over the past 20 years: they all, pretty much, still low resolution monochrome LCDs, many without a backlight. The processors, memory capacity and interface options have all progressed, but the displays have stagnated.
Maybe Apple can give us an iCalc to update the graphing calculator for the twenty-first century, or something (actually, it would be a pretty neat third-party add-on for the video iPod: a dock that slips around the iPod and gives you a full scientific calculator keypad, using the iPod for display and storage).
Having grown up in the era preceding the rise of the graphing calculator, however, I can say that there is a serious downside to learning higher math with a sophisticated calculational crutch: you may not get as good an instinct for the math as you would have if you had been forced to do the graphs by hand. I suppose that, in an age when even elementary schoolers are being given calculators, it's something of a lost cause to lament the loss of manual mathematical skills.
just a ghost in the machine.
I guess I'm posting a little late to this. Maybe someone will read it. :)
:(
My first graphing calculator was an old Casio. It was ok, but I switched the next year (11th grade) to an HP-48SX. I upgraded to a 48GX when they came out which I think was my sophomore year of college. I've also owned/used extensively a couple of TIs (81 and 83, I think). I've periodically browsed the current calculator offerings ever since just cause I'm curious.
The HP wins hands down. There is absolutely no comparison. In fact, when I was in college (92-96) at GaTech, the HP had almost 100% market share. It had a better screen, better processor, much more memory, expandability and about 7-8 times as many built-in functions. It was also far easier to program and exchange programs. I think the RPN detractors must not completely grok it. Once you master RPN, it's just so much simpler to use in the space-constrained (memory, screen and keypad) environment of a calculator.
I keep waiting for the next great calculator, but sadly calculators have not really advanced much since the early 90s. There has been a major focus on hand held computers and PDAs, but they don't replace the form factor of the calculator. HP has apparently ceased working on calculators and TI has done little more than increase memory and processor speed. Those are important, but a calculator is a special purpose tool that has far more to offer than processing speed.
I'm a little despondent about it because I wouldn't mind getting a faster, improved 48GX, but neither HP nor TI has offered such a beast. Why can't I have an HP that runs Mathematica?
John McNair
Do yourself a favor and, assuming you'll be pursuing an engineering discipline, get and ALWAYS use one from the approved list of calculators by the NCEES for use on the Professional Engineering exams. After 10 years with a TI-83, I'm having to relearn a new calculator because the one I used on the first exam will no longer be allowed on the next. This is NOT something you will want to do. You want your brain to know the math and not be hamstrung by a piece of high-technology. The exams are hard enough without having to worry about studying the calculator too. You wouldn't think it's a big deal, but when you've got 10 years of using one under your belt, it's better to not have to pick up another one at a critical exam. Trust me.
The NCEES approved calculator list:
http://www.ncees.org/exams/calculators/index.php#
That's right! You can get an exceptional emulator for an HP48-GX, free!
The emulator is here: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3644
You also need to get a ROM dump file, which you can get here: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4368
There are several other emulators, including versions for Windows CE and PocketPC, as well as many other programs and resources, on that site. That also means, if your college will allow PDAs in the classroom, you could just get a PDA and forego the physical calculator entirely!
(T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
I don't know of any calculators of that size that can do modular exponentiation of large numbers (and related functions). I've always wanted one that could. PARI/GP on a calculator would be nice.
Hexadecimal is also a nice feature, but there isn't any handheld I know of that supports hex nearly as well as Windows Calculator.
Melissa
"Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
Just adding my vote.
Maybe there should be a poll or something.
We didn't have any choice with ours, but I'm certain you can't go wrong eith the TI-89. Wikipedia quotes it as 'the most powerful calculator allowed in exams, etc.', and its ease of use for secondary purposes (data transfer, OS upgrades, etc.) is incredible. When we got it in Year 9, it took most students less then a week to figure out how to use it (without the manual), and simple programs are written for it easily. If you buy it, I recommend the TI-89 Titanium, as that is the latest model (to my knowledge).
I just finished my university degree in physics (I also had a brief unsucessful engineer degree debut) and no graphing calculators are allowed in exam rooms. The McGill science faculty, engineer faculty, and the Polytechnique de Montreal only allow certain calculators at exams. If you plan on seriously investing in a calculator don't spend more than 25$. I have a Casio fx-991MS (on all the faculty's white-list) and I love it; it did everything I ever needed a calculator to do. For anything more complex I used maple or wrote a C program, and rarely did I ever need to graph something on a calculator (I got pretty good at approximating curves by hand). I won't deny that TI makes a nice graphing calculator (the TI-89 is quite impressive), but in all honesty graphing calculators are just toys. Link to user's guide: http://ftp.casio.co.jp/pub/world_manual/edu/en/fx1 15MS_991MS_E.pdf
Link to Amazon product page: http://www.amazon.com/Scientific-2-Line-Display-Ca lculator-fx-991MS/dp/B000KIFUVG (actually 35$, but my school bookstore sold it cheaper at 20$)
If you want to see a sample calculator policy you can find one here.
(Yes, if you have 10,000 students passing through the math department every year, you need a department-wide "calculator policy" :-).)
I used a TI-86 in high school. One thing I will admit about the TI's is that they are very user friendly. I bought an HP 50g when it came out. The hardware and software is more powerful than the TI-89. If it were not for the standard graphing calculator screen and the AAA batteries, it would be more of a mathematical PDA than a graphing calculator. The TI89 uses something like a 16 mhz processor, whereas the HP 50G uses a 200 Mhz arm processor, though it is clocked down to 75 mhz to save battery power. Unlike the TI, it also includes an infrared port (no carrying around transfer cables, though to make use of it, you have to find a friend with an HP, and given that TI has a lock on the educational market, chances are slim of that), an SD card slot (unlimited memory), and a serial port (though frankly, I think few would every use that particular capability). The mathematical software on the HP 50g is also more powerful, that is, it is more capable than the TI 89. It also has nice features like a large equation library and the ability to step through algebraic manipulations such as symbolic integration (almost a "cheat" if you are allowed to use it on tests) But in all fairness, I have used a TI-89 as well, and it has some advantages that must be mentioned. To begin with, it is easier to use. The TI 89 is clearly the more straightforward and user friendly. It also dominates the educational market. Most high schools use TI, and some colleges do as well, though higher math and science generally prefers software based solutions such as Mathematica/Mathcad/Excell/SPSS. Since it is more popular, you are more likely to get help from your friends and teachers if you use a TI calculator. Also, the TI89 is capable of doing most of the same functions as the HP 50g. It also has more add-on programs. So my advice would be get either an HP 50G (more powerful, less friendly, less supported) or a TI-89 (less powerful, more friendly, more supported) and also to start learning common math programs such as Mathematica, which is the most powerful computer algebra system on the market, and used by most universities.
I've used a TI-86 since high school (8 years) and so far it's served me well. The only time it's been banned from use is when all graphing calculators are banned, but I've had friends with 89's who've not been able to use their calculators on multiple tests. The 86 doesn't have all the bells and whistles the 89+ have but isn't banned as often and does have a leg up on the 83 series.
I managed high school and three semesters of college calculus without using a calculator. Since I was in computer science, the math then turned to the sort where a caluculator would be no use at all, graphing or otherwise.
We did a lot of graphing by hand in high school, that may be why I didn't miss having a machine to do it for me.
In astronomy in high school they did not allow calculators at all, but did allow me to use my slide rule. This made solving problems made to be done by hand ( since no one was to use a calcualtor )lots quicker, so I always finished first.
I'm a senior in High School. This sounds odd, but seriously, go get yourself a used TI-85. They're dirt cheap on EBay, and they aren't normally very popular for a couple of reasons: slower processor and out of production.
However: they're easier to program and have a nicer menu system than any I've seen out today. Also, since they're an older design, they're built a good shot tougher. Mine has lasted about twenty years so far, and it's still working perfectly despite the horrendous abuse to which it has been subjected.
The weirdest thing about it is, the slower processor has saved my butt several times. When it flings graphs out at you as fast as you can type equations, you get a lot less time to think. Watching it trace that line nice and slow allows you to graphically verify your equation in your head, rather than just glance at it and say "yep, looks about right."
Yeah, it lacks the bells and whistles of other calculators. But it gets the job done, keeps the menu options helpful and inconspicuous, and will probably withstand more neglect and impact than your textbook. Besides, the price is definitely right.
As a senior math/physics student in college, I can promise you that for any handheld computations, an 89 is what you want. I've learned it pretty well over the years, but there are still dozens of functions I haven't even learned to use. As everyone has mentioned, the 89 can do symbolic calculus, is easy to program, can handle tons of variables, the input method is infinitely better than the 83/84 and its graphing capabilities (3-d, slope fields, etc.) its amazing. I preferred using Mathematica for my physics homework and we used MATLAB in our math classes (I think that is the standard dichotomy). I've heard good things about Octave, and don't ignore the simplicity and power of the "Grapher" app in MacOS. I found myself using Grapher and Google (it can do most basic arithmetic) for a large percentage of my homework. Grapher can do tangent lines, integrals, evaluations, and a variety of other functions. Mark B
I bought my first calculator when in junior high equivalent. Since it was in the late 80's no fancy stuff. Did well into high school. Also well through all the university math courses (they did not allow calculators with memory or a graphical display). Sure you need one?
Naturally, the answer is "HP 48G" (or GX, if you prefer). I have a TI 89 around here somewhere, too, but only because I haven't bothered to post it on eBay.
Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?
Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?
The TI-86 is wonderful, the built in polynomial root solver alone is worth the price. It also does integration, derivatives, differential equations, matrix, and vector calculations. This calculator was designed for college mathematics, engineering, and science classes... You can use the TI-86 on the ACT... Don't let your calculator be a crutch though.
As a recent Electrical Engineering grad, I agree. TI-89 is a must. HP's suck, their buttons suck, and RPN sucks. The 89 has a higher resolution than other TI's, and it's extremely easy and useful to program functions. "Pretty print" also owns.
A TI-89 Titanium is by far the best graphic calculator I would ever think to own - it's almost enough to make me want to learn Motorola 68k assembly. However, I do think you should remember that the trouble with getting something too amazing, too wonderful, too....advanced....is that, such with the TI-89 Ti, you'll get a wonderful computer algebra system on it, and then a large number of exams suddenly become a lot more frustrating should you become reliant upon it....
My UID is prime. Is yours?
Aside from being able to compile source code off the board and thus correct the professor (when it won't compile)...
:showing: |emphasis|, and type fast enough that if I need to transcribe, I can. (Sometimes, you really do want the direct quote. Others, it's much better to take shorter notes.)
You're right, taping the lecture is probably a bad idea, simply because it will take too long to replay it.
However, as much as I might sometimes wish to draw pictures and graphs (node-graph-like mnemonic structures), everything else you said I can pretty much do: I'll put it in a simple text file, organize it with indentation, emphasize it (like circling) with _underlines_ and *similar* CONVENTIONS <i>for</i>
However, if you're still convinced yours is better, there is one additional reason for using, say, a TabletPC-like device: it's digital. That means easy backups and organization; I lose paper notes all the time, but I never lose anything in my computer.
And if you're that easily distracted, you will be anyway -- by what that cute girl in the row ahead of you is wearing, or by what's out the window, or by something the prof said that launches you into a completely different train of thought. If you want to focus, you'll focus.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
That pretty much sums up the positions of the HP and TI fanatics.
The HP folks will try to sell you on a calculator that's no longer being made. The TI folks will try to sell you on a calculator that's not yet being made.
I am actually an International student. When I was in high school, we used mostly log books as those were the only tables allowed at the examinations (in India, not everyone can purchase a calculator). However, I have had and used a regular 2 line Casio throughout.. including for my SATs. I did not think you really needed a calculator for the SATs.
I finished my bachelors in Electrical Engineering. During my courses, I always used a 10$ casio with a 2 line display. Many people with TI's were not allowed to use them as some people would bring in notes and crib sheets typed in their multifunction calculators. I never had that problem.. and I never felt limited by my calculator. Most of the time, you do calculations in logs, powers, simple equations... anything too complex for the calculator can be simplified by hand.
My suggestion, get a standard 2 line calculator that cannot store data for college.. and if you really want to play around.. get a TI or a HP as so many ppl here have recommended.
...is because they use a 4-bit custom microprocessor, the Saturn, which is clocked under 4 MHz for the HP48gx and even lower for older models. The bright side of the low clock speed is that HP48-series calculators are extremely power efficient. A pack of AAA batteries will keep you running for --literally-- years.
I doubt the new, ARM-based HP calculators can make such a claim.
Graphing what is this graphing, use the force and visualise. Seriously consider an older used calculator. My Hp 11c got me through Marine engineering, Mechanical engineering and Electrical engineering. Its taken a lot of abuse, been to the ends of the earth (inluding antarctica) and is still my primary tool for quick field calcs. you can get em on ebay for a reasonable price and if you are stubborn enough you can write some pretty nifty little programs for them.
I think the subject says it. I am using Mathematica 5 (and alternatively MuPAD) on a Sony Vaio PCG-U3. The difference to your ThinkPad? Power-per-size. The U3 is about the size of a TI-92, but given that it is a full-blown x86 notebook with 488 MB RAM and 20+ GB disk in it, I think it beats the 92 by any means. If the UX50/UX90 were available at the time I purchased my U3, I would probably have taken that instead. (See for some pics and specs)
I'm surprised noone uses CASIO here :)s _%26_Dictionaries/Graphing/
I have math degree and all the time in the university i was using Casio FX-6300G. It serves me 10 years already. Excellent machine, it is still sold somewhere in the World (even if not produced anymore). If you do not need CAS it probably will meet all your requirements, the price is very low (about 45EUR) and the quality is fantastic.
Now Casio are making Algebra FX 2.0 and ClassPad 300. While FX 2.0 is a classic calculator, ClassPad looks more innovative, i just affraid of build quality (looking on the pictures). If i see it "live" in a shop and i like the touch-and-feel i will probably buy one
http://www.casioeducation.com/products/Calculator
(I have an 84 Plus, which was the latest in the series when I bought it.)
Seriously, you want a TI-83 series calculator for a few reasons:
1) If you want to go to a decent college, you'll be taking the ACT and the SAT. One of these does not permit calculators more advanced than the 83 series. (This is also true of many math-involving competitions.)
2) TI is the de facto standard. You probably want interoperability and the ability not to care about how your calculator does things. Your teachers will know how to use a TI-83.
3) By the time you get to advanced math courses, especially in college, using an 89 (or equivalent) might be cool but it's often painful and not all that helpful on tests. You're going to prefer Mathematica or Matlab on your computer, possibly on a laptop if you want to play with the math while in lecture.
But mainly it's reason #1. Why spend hundreds of dollars on something that an important exam or contest turns out not to let you use?
(I have a friend who went the route of having an 89 for herself and an 83 nominally for her younger brother. That 83 showed up in her hands more often than not. I didn't feel like wasting the money on two calculators for one person.)
Like a SCIENTIFIC calculator. You have no idea how helpful that was to me in pretty much ALL of my collegiate math classes.
rhY
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
R is a system for statistical computation and graphics. It consists of a language plus a run-time environment with graphics, a debugger, access to certain system functions, and the ability to run programs stored in script files. I runs on a variety of CPU's. You may be able to get this to run on some PDA's like a zarus I would think. This would be your most powerful option. Check out R here: http://www.r-project.org/
I have used both the TI 83 and 89. I consider them good calculators but found them cumbersome after having used the earlier model of the Sharp EL-9900c. It is just as strong for doing the graphing and equation solving as the TI's are.
The feature that I thought made it less cumbersome was the edit as you see it ability. Instead of all of this one line entry of equations it will actually display the equation as it is is in the book while you enter it. So if you enter a symbol for the integral it will display a box at the top and bottom of the symbol for entry, instead of requiring them later on or on the same on line in the entry with others.
I've had my earlier model since 1994 and will not get rid of it. I have a TI 89 that a college class forced me to get 2 years ago and it only gets basic use for figuring out square footage in a room. Check out the Sharp page, you may be surprised.
TIs have become the de facto standard because they are the ones recommended for use on AP exams, certain university classes (although some don't allow anything more than a scientific calculator), and are the ones recommended to high school students (like yourself) for calculus and physics classes. I assure you that they are plenty powerful. Hell, TI 89s will give you the solution of indefinite closed form integrals. As for the resolution, well that's kept low to keep the cost down. I doubt you'll see any graphing calculators that are allowed on AP tests and the sort that have significantly higher resolutions. Yes, the low resolution may cause aliasing, but that isn't restricted to just TI calculators. You have to decide what is right for you, and what will meet your needs, but I've been using my TI for the past seven years, and wouldn't dream of using anything else.
I have yet to understand where a graphing calculator is necessary over a non-graphing calculator. I've been an engineer for 20 years, in aerospace, mechanical design, and in architectural/strucutral design. I grew up on computers and such (I am not of the slide rule generation), so I understand the utility in most technical gadgets - but I don't get how graphing is useful.
The only time I have ever seen it used is to show the multple zeros of an equation, but even that was just a curiosity. If you can't get a pretty printout, why bother? Furthermore, you need the exact numbers anyway whenever you want to solve something. If you want to estimate, do it in your head.
Admittedly, I own an HP48, so I use the screen as a visual stack. Again, all of the graphing fuctions are pretty, but not practical unless you happen to be using it for a game, or calendar, or as a help screen in an equation (and if you need a help screen, imo you don't know the equation well enough to be using a calculator).
So, are there really useful or computationally practical reasons for a graphing calulator, or does everyone just want them because they are "cool"?
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Simple answer: don't buy one. Here at the university of Louvain (Belgium), professors require students to have a basic calculator. One that can evaluate e^x is enough. Exams question student insight ,not their ability to use a calculator. The university administration voted to ban graphing calculators, because they just aren't necessary.
I, myself, still support the claim that graphing calculators REDUCE student insight. If complex problems really require a numerical solution: use software like Maple or Matlab.
And yes, I am studying civil engineering. Queation: physical problem. Answer: physics law -> method of solving. My answer usually boils down to 'solving this equation gives the answer' or 'computer model X is being proposed, enter the following data and you get the answer'.
Real calculators are not computers; they do not have graphics, they do not produce diagrams or plots, they will not dull your brain by helping you with symbolic math, they do not even have alphanumeric displays. Programmable calculators are not programmed in any programming language like BASIC, they are programmed by punching the keys, a straightforward action that will result in interesting, numeric, codes on the single line, 7-segment display.
Real calculators were produced by HP and used RPN, only RPN.
The last *real* calculator HP produced, and, obviously, the greatest calculator that will ever be produced, was the HP 15C. http://www.hpmuseum.org/hp15.htm
If you need more, get yourself a computer, not some pitiful electronic experiment.
Finally, real calculators are never used for counting money, they are only used for scientific and engineering calculations.
The simple facts are that while HP48/49 series are much better calculators, most schools, and individual teachers/professors won't allow you to use anything but a TI.
I myself bought an HP-48G and loved the thing. I had a horrible time convincing my teachers allow me to use it, they had never seen one before. I eventually came across teachers that I couldn't convince, and I ended up having to buy a TI.
In regard to those that say, "don't buy one". Some teachers/professors REQUIRE them, some PROHIBIT them, and others consider it OPTIONAL. Regardless, you really need to follow the pack here.
I don't know about your school or the University/College you'll be going to, but I'm a fourth-year Aerospace Engineer at the University of Toronto.. I had a TI83+ in high school and loved it, simply because it was quick and easy to use. But at University, it never left my drawer at home! On quizzes, tests, and exams, graphing calculators were explicitly prohibited, you had to use one of their three approved models of basic scientific calculators or show the examiner that your calculator was equivalent. Because of this, I found myself using the simpler scientific calculator in normal class time and homework as well, I mean why not practice with what I was going to need to perform?
Furthermore, at the University level, in most quality programmes/courses it becomes less about getting a final, specific answer that's correct to 8 sig-figs than it is to show that you know how to apply the theorems, formulas, concepts etc. and that you have the mental faculties to perform all the basic trig/PDEs/ODEs/systems of equations needed to solve the problem. Half of my answers consisted of demonstrating my result in a simplified set of equations with parameters that matched up to the "givens" in the questions.. I rarely bothered to sub these values in to get a numerical answer.
On top of that, a University's goal is not to produce a trained monkey capable of solving a question as long as it lines up with a model they saw in school. They are teaching you the concepts you need to understand the problems, and to be able to analyze new problems as they come up. In the real world, you'll be using high-end mathematical simulation programs such as MatLab, Maple or Mathematica to do most of your analysis (I'm sorry if these examples don't line up for you.. They are the three primarily used mathematical software suites used in Ontario).
My recommendation: a good Sharp D.A.L. scientific calculator should be all you will need.
Aikon-
So, what *is* the integral of a sin allready?
... Gosh, no wonder I got a D in analysis ... )
(An integral is that stuff between the abszisse and the function graph isn't it?
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Don't balk at the TI's, I've had mine since 1994 and it still works great.
I suppose it depends on the field of study, but for my M.Sc. in electrical engineering I never needed my calculator to graph anything. Maybe I tried it a few times because the calculator could do it, but that's it.
On the other hand, the big screen was very useful for checking what I had typed and allowed me to edit the formulas etc.
I still have the TI-85, which has served me well for 10+ years. Most other ee geeks had HP-48's, but somehow I found TI to be more to my liking. To RPN or not to RPN is the question, and there's no objective answer to that. YMMV.
There is a flash app that you can buy for the TI-89 called Equation Writer that REALLY helps inputting long or complicated equations. It's only $15, and well worth it. I've been using it for about a year and a half now, and haven't gotten a math problem wrong as a result of inputting it into the calculator wrong since I got it. I bought it after getting mad in physics class. I input an equation the teacher wrote on the board TWICE and got a different answer both times. Both answers were wrong! They looked identical on the screen after being input in the pretty-print area. It was slight nuances of the parentheses that was killing me, but those kinds of errors are hard to catch on a tiny input line. Anyways, I bought it off of http://education.ti.com/ but I don't see it listed anymore. I still have it in my downloads area since I bought it, but that isn't helping me locate it. Sadly, Google isn't being much help either. It's called Equation Writer (EQW) 1.01.
Also, you're not supposed to use it while taking a shower.
I hear that Google is trying to change all that.
Well, it doesn't do grpahics, but I'd suggest the Curta. This device certainly has the coolest (= geekiest) UI.
I have been using calculators, and mathematics software from the very moment they became affordable. I bought my first calculator, and HP35 for about $800 in 1974. I used early mathematics software like macsyma and cayley, through maple and mathematics.
Your question is a little unclear. For best, in terms of most powerful, you want to use a laptop where you
can program using C, unless what you are doing is graphics oriented, and aided by the many specialized libraries
for doing high level mathematics.
If you are doing more exploratory computations then one of the general tools like Maple or Mathematica is good. However, these programs get "friendlier" every year, which means that the front end is eating more and more of your memory, which means the mathematics you can do is less powerful. However, there are ways to get around the front end for both programs.
If you need something that is powerful and hand held, I have always been partial to HP calculators, but I started out on them.
For a student, I suspect that the TI makes sense. Not because of the hardware or software, but because TI has been very aggressive about getting its products into the hands of teachers. This means you are most likely to be able to get meaningful help for how the calculator works. That is way more important than how well the actual calculator works.
I'm an EE at the University of Alabama at Birmingham, for credentials sake.
:).
I would say get a TI-89 AND the newest Casio scientific calculator (I forget the model number, it's white
This is because some professors might not let you use ANY type of graphing calculator that has the ability to store formulas in memory (which is all of them). I use the Casio that I have more than my TI...it handles all types of things like complex numbers, definite integration and derivation, and can even do simultaneous equations (up to 3) and polynomial functions (up to 3rd degree).
If you let yourself become dependent on a graphing calculator, then you'll miss out on the speed of a scientific calculator.
Learn both.
to recognize functions instead of relying on a calculator to do it for them
Once you go HP you never go back. I don't care how much you loved your TI. And you can count on that ;-)
Won't do graphing, obviously, but you can fill that in by hand.
I've done CS and physics in uni, and all I can say is, for the most part you won't be able to use anything more than a scientific calculator in exams. None of these computer algebra systems etc... some universities even insist that you buy the calculator from them.
Looking back to high school though, we did a lot with them. I just had a cheap Casio (don't get one of those), everyone else had a TI-83. It's just that since starting higher education I've made little use of it.
buy a TI-XX calculator with XX being the version number. My trusty TI-83 has made it all the way through Calculus-I and it is what all the teachers have. If you ever need help using you calculator (and you will) all the teachers know is a TI. Yes there are fancier screens for the price but the TI gets the job done and thats what matters. If you want to be cool outside of class carry around a laptop with MathCAD or something.
It has served me very well since my early calculus days in high school, all the way to the present day, where i'm doing my graduate studies in electrical engineering. Trust me, being able to do symbolic calculations on a handheld calculator is priceless (way more than any "graphing" capabilities, so you shouldn't care about monochrome display) ! No more manually computing the integral of e ^ x ^ 2 for you !
Oh and i'm assuming that the uber-geeks of the crowd will be recommending HPs for their "polish notation"...
But trust me, you don't need polish notation when you have a full qwerty keyboard on your calculator. Only downside is of course is that not everyone will let you use them during exams.
A million monkeys and this is the best sig they could come up with...
I was looking for a top-notch calculator myself just a few weeks ago. I looked at all the ususal suspects (Casio, HP, TI, etc.) and must say that I was somewhat disappointed. The situation for calculators hasn't changed much in the last 20 years. I think my Sharp PC-1402 would still keep up with most of them./ nonProductMulti/nspire_cas.html) seems to be the next big thing coming up but I'd acutally suggest you get a Palm or a Pocket Computer/Handheld if you need anything powerfull and programm the stuff you need yourself. Takes time but you learn something along the way.
However I bought a non-grafical Casio fx-991ES, the most powerfull without grafics functionality. The neatest feature it has is Casio's 'Natural Display' Option which let's you type your formulas just the way you see them in your textbooks. For 20$ you get a very performant and powerfull calculator. Albeit one that isn't programmable.
The TI Nspire (http://education.ti.com/educationportal/sites/US
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Alright, I saw about 10 comments I wanted to reply to. First, I am a junior in college as a CS major and mathematics minor. Second, no, a PDA is a TERRIBLE choice. Basically, anything other than a TI is a TERRIBLE choice. Why? Because that's what you're allowed to use on standardized testing (SATs, etc). Trust me, the SATs will be the most hateful day of your entire life. Especially after you go on a college interview and they tell you, "If you raise your score 100 points, we will give you this much more money." It's a hateful day. You want your calculator for that test. While it is a great idea to plan ahead, some math departments at certain colleges require you to buy a certain calculator. My own math department requires me to have either a TI89 or a TI200. I recommend you buy a TI89. It's allowed for the SATs and ACTs as far as I know. The TI89 does everything the TI200 does, except the TI200 has a qwerty keyboard. You really don't need the keyboard. It just looks cool. You just cannot use the TI200 on any standardized testing.
If your chemistry teacher had thought about it, removing the power cable from the wall would have been a more effective block!
I know, I'm a spoilsport.
I'm a Math Prof. I teach lots of freshman calculus classes, and I HATE the TI calculator series. The problem is, that TI has cornered the low-end educational market. So, many textbooks and standardized tests will require a calculator which not-so-coincidently will only match the TI-8x series. I personally prefer the HP calculators (i.e. the 48GX) because the reverse polish notation is far superior for large calculations. It is a shame that HP is still using the same processor in these calculators that they were using when I was in school. Most standardized tests (and many professors) will not let you use a PDA because the WiFi features make it too easy to cheat. I personally allow students to use whatever they can carry and I design my tests to make cheating with WiFi useless. The Point: Research what you're allowed to use before you buy. If you can use a high-end HP, then get it.
Frankly, I tend to agree. I'm currently a 4th year physical chemistry graduate student. I still carry my old CASIO scientific calculator from the 8th grade. It's small, I know where all the keys are, and it has all the abilities I need in a small portable calulator. It has 6 assignable cariables built in as memory. For anything I'm not too complicated for it, there's my computer and MathCAD. I was forced to buy a graphing calculaor for AP calculus by the teacher, and I promptly stopped carrying it once I got into college. I bought a TI-92 for a stupid cheap price ($72 aftertax) and I used that for the easy to assign variables and equation solving. Iterative methods on that thing were really easy. Nevertheless, I don't even know where by 85 and 92 are now. I do still have my CASIO in my bag.
First I noticed that everyone says that the HP48GX is the way to go. However, you will have troubles finding this calculator since they stopped producing them. This means on high schooler's budget you will need/want to buy a more affordable calc. You could probably buy a 49GX on ebay, but be prepared to shell out some loot.
But I digress...I have owned both of these calculators mentioned in the subject. Each has their pros and cons. The hp49 does have some nice features. It has a larger screen, has some more robust features, and of course it has RPN. If you don't want to learn RPN, then there is an algebraic mode. I would still most likely be using it if it wasn't BROKEN. once when I replaced the batteries, it just didn't turn on again. I tried some of the hard resets, but I was unable to succesfully resurect it. There were some other features which were obnoxious. For example, real and imaginary numbers were always formated as '(re,im)' which is ok when looking at a single number, but when dealing with a multy layered algebraic expression (ie many other parenthesis) it could be hard to read.
Now the TI 89 on the other hand has a smaller learning curve than the TI 89. It's programming language I feel is not as robust as HP's. As such, I have written few programs for the 89. Comparing the TI89's complex number display is not even close. The TI 89 will display complex numbers in multiple formats (such as a+i*b and A*e^(i*phi), where the second form would actually use superscripts instead of the carrot). The display would format depending on how you set the options. I also found that the TI89 would perform some integrations faster than the HP. Also, some of the algebraic manipulations are better with the HP.
The final verdict for me would be for you to get a TI-89 since it has a smaller learning curve and has a better display of the algebraic results.
I made it through high school, undergrad, and grad school (civil engineering at Georgia Tech) with nothing more than a TI-35, which I still use occasionally in my job at GT.
:-)
All those graphing, formula-storing calculators make you soft.
JRjr
Buy a Palm and powerOne Graph. You'll have the best graphing calculator and the base for lots of other useful applications (and programming languages if you don't find what you want).
I'm a Programmer. That's one level above Software Engineer and one level below Engineer.
Yeah, games seem to be the use, but that's not really necessary during an exam (or work).
I use a 48GX - it took a while to get used to RPN, but I can't live without the stack now. I've caught more entry/operation errors with it than I care to admit. The solver is also invaluable, though I really only use ot for time value of money and concrete reinforcement. Worth the cost in the latter application alone. I really need to put in a couple of others, though, but never seem to have the time nowadays (the concrete was entered about a decade ago when I was doing grad work.)
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
I just asked a colleague and he put it like this, "TI == Windows." I think that about sums it up.
The 50g isn't bad. The keypad layout is better than the other 49 series calculators, though still not as good as the 48 series -- it lacks the large [ENTER] key, which really bothers me. It feels much faster and has more RAM than the 48 series. The 50g has returned to the hard plastic keys of the 48 series, rather than the crappy rubber keys of the 49. The CAS is pretty good, and easy to use, which is nice. Other than that, I haven't used it much yet, as I haven't been in school for several years -- I got it this year so that I have a chance to get used to it a bit before I return for my Masters in the fall.
Rhapsody in Numbers
I'm surprised that you're even getting a choice as to which graphing calculator you get to use. In my own high school math classes, the teacher basically told us all "Go out and buy a TI-83, because the week of lessons on How To Use A Graphing Calculator are all going to be based on that model."
Another thing I'm surprised about is that it's more than a decade since then, and the TI-83 STILL sells for roughly $100, with the only new feature as far as I can tell being the proprietary serial connection has been replaced with a standard USB one. What gives? Shouldn't technological progress have priced these things down to $20 by now?
I love my HP calculators. I started using them with the 32S, then the 48GX, and now I have the new 50G, which is basically the 48GX a bit faster.
I also owned a TI-series graphing calculator at one time as a class I was taking required it.
In my opinion, compared to state-of-the art in display technology, used in most modern cell phones and PDAs, even the best, cutting-edge calculators suck graphics-wise in comparison.
There is no reason why my top-of-the-line HP50G calculator should have such a clunky monochrome display.
The primary reason why development of calculators has not kept pace with the development of PDAs and cell phones is simple: If they make them too good they will be banned from academic use, and thus the market is instantly gone.
That's a damn shame.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
I'm the original owner of (and still use) one of these bad boys. And no it's not for sale.
As far as I can tell the graphing function is primarily used in schools. The use is to do just what you suggested enter equations and see multiple zeros, exponential growth, changing shapes of parabolas, etc. Obviously exact answers are not what they're after with this, it's about teaching the concept, e.g. when you increase an exponent in an equation what happens to the shape of the answers. In addition some schools use the more advanced geometric drawing functions of the TI-89 or 92 to show what things such as rotations and translations look like. The bottom line is they are another way to reach students and teach concepts, not something all that practical.
Teaching precalculus and calculus at the college level I have found that the TI-83 and the other TI's that are similar (I don't care for the ones that have the function buttons, I find them damn annoying) are more than enough calculator for people who want to get through calculus. Yeah you could get a calculator that does other fancy shit, but when it comes down to it, if you're studying something that requires a deeper level of math, you needot know that math like the back of your hand, with or without a calculator. On a secondary note, this calculator is also particularly useful for the many students who have to take statistics courses as well. It can do just about anything a student would want to with a given data set... if only more students would read the manual they could save themselves a lot of time when trying to calculate a standard deviation or something else equally annoying.
After 10 years, my TI-85 finally died. The machine was a work horse. I used this calculator from freshmen year in high school until after I graduated from college. I have used this for everything from Algebra and Calculus to Stastics, Operations Management, Finance and Accouting. When I replaced my TI-85, I found that the 85 was no longer in production and was forced to purchase another model. I ended up with the TI-84, this calculator has every function that the 85 had a more. I my experience, the TI is the calculator that most of the professor used and hence they can tell you how to use it (Most TI calculators operate generally alike)
Cheers
P
This is the list of approved calculators.
Do NOT buy a calculator that isn't on that list, even if it matches the requirements.
While you may be giving up some programmability and flexibility, if you're going to be doing lots of complex calculation a dedicated calculating device is worth the cost. The buttons work fast, they *almost* never crash, you know its almost always going to work, you don't have to waste time switching modes or finding programs. The buttons on the 89 are way better. The buttons on the old HP-48G were better, but HP cheaped out on the GX. Some people are recommending using a scientific calculator. I wouldn't. The 89's let you see the inputs and the result simultaneously. I constantly reuse equations so this is invaluable for me. Also, you can double check to make sure your inputs were correct. For graphing beyond what you need for basic calc and physics, a laptop will be better, but toughing out using the tiny screen is worth it at exam time when you're needing to work fast and they won't let you use a laptop.
PN as in Polish Notation? That's almost the same as the Reverse Polish Notation, it uses a heap only the operations go first and then the operands. To my knowledge there are no commercial PN scientific calculators.
The "regular" calculators with equal sign are not PN calculators.
16,777,216 comments ought to be enough for any forum!
Is there any good reason that a calculator should have a nicer screen? If you really need to see the graph in color or high resolution, use a computer and Maple or Excel. Calculators should have long battery life. Color LCDs don't lead to long battery life.
Rhapsody in Numbers
"Resist these urges. On tests, including the SATs and APs, fancy laptops and super-calculators are not allowed, and proctors will confiscate what they aren't sure about."
/anything/:
No kidding--anything they're not sure about. Anything. Not just fancy electronics, but
When I took the SAT-2 in 1998, I went in with a sliderule.
They wouldn't let me use it.
"No, I don't see `sliderule' on the list or approved calculators....", they said.
I should have asked if `fingers' were on the list--some people can say that their hands are deadly weapons, and I'm not one of them..., but my hands are effective calculating-devices: they contain two five-bit general-purpose registers that can be treated as a unified 10-bit register, with bit-shift operators and a full complement of boolean operators.
-rozzin.
Bah. When society breaks down slide rules will be hard to make. The abacus is the way to go.
I loved my TI-85 too. Once I used it to get my assignments done before everyone else, I would then sit in class and play one of a dozens games that I wrote for it. Had Black Jack, Tank Wars, Pong, etc. Solving equations is boring, lol. And, yes, I still use it today, it is built like a tank. Also, Solver and the built in conversion system rocks as well.
Nevermore.
I started using calculators in College with the TI-51A in 1973. Seems like just yesterday...
Correct, the v200 is the successor to the ti-92 and ti-92+.
"linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
I love mine too! Traded in a TI for it - in 1993 - but I wouldn't think of going back.
Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
I still have my old TI-30 from 1981...uses a 9v battery, and most importantly, the display uses a red LED. That's right, LED, nor those pansy-ass LCDs they have now. Red LED, fer cryin' out loud!
buy an HP48G
Bomb proof. Lasts forever. Will do almost any scientific calculation (within reason) and graph it too.
Oh and you ca program it to beep out a Bach Fugue using "BEEP [frequency] [durration in ms]
What isn't to like about that!
jason
Remember 440Hz is tuning A above C
TI calculators while they have there place in Education, really do suck. I currently use a Hp 50G and love it. So powerful its scary. The Ti 89T is leaps behind the HP and it really shows if you use them side by side. In the real wold, most engineers will be using HP. you wont see any Ti. This has to do with the fact that the HP just tend to be alot better. The only real reason the Ti have become popular is due to TI paying off schools and educational institutions with free calculators and programs to make the schools Ti only. I remember in HS I had a HP scientific and my professors wouldn't allow me to use it. because it was not a Ti. I still used it, didnt care to much. I now as a Undergrad EE student use a HP 50G and a Hp 33s exclusively. Sure mot of my classmates use Ti, but they are suckers. When they see my HP calcs they are like whats that and then they have no clue how to use it and they don't know how much better the HP is, i find that gratifying. HP for the win.
I had to purchase a graphical calculator for Calculus I back about 10 years ago.
I got a TI-85 for about $100 back in the day.
Never used it after that class except as a normal digital answer calculator.
For me, in retrospect, it was a bit of a waste of money.
Being a programmer, I think I would _better_ like to see graphing calculators that have flash memory, or accept a USB flash drive, so you could keep programs, and that can be programmed like the old "hand held basic-language computers" Radio Shack used to sell.
Lastly I'd rather see such a "calculator" be able to do C, or Fortran in addition to Basic.
Uh, Linux geek since 1999.
I bought a TI-83 at the start of my 7th grade year, and I still have the damn thing today. It wasn't until I reached Calculus 2 in College that I reached the limits of it's abilities. Right now, going through engineering school, we aren't allowed to use calculators in any of our math classes for tests. I'll use a little TI twenty-something scientific calculator for homework to do basic multiplication that I can't do in my head, and for problems that don't come out to nice integers or fractions. Other than that, the TI-83 has been relegated to my backpack for occasional duty playing ZTris or Falldown when I'm bored and forgot my DS.
I've found I'm able to grasp the concepts of higher maths a lot better without using a calculator, and if a particular example is difficult enough to need a calculator, it's probably difficult enough to fire up Maple of Mathematica.
One thing that the ti line of calculators also offers is the ability to run assembly programs via ZShell, etc. Basically, this means that you can get programs off the internet and load them into your calculator via the link cable, much like downloading/installing applications to a PDA.
>Is there any good reason that a calculator should have a nicer screen?
Yes - so that I don't have to pan the screen from left-to-right or top-to-bottom to see more text or graphics.
Color aside, they need to be much higher resolution than they presently are.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
And if you shouldn't avoid the 89 because it seems harder at first, you shouldn't avoid the HP for the same reason.
I don't know anyone who got used to using their HP and wanted to go back. I'm STILL happy about my 48G, and I got it in 93.
People who haven't used them say "why are they so complicated" and after you get used to it you say "why are the other calculators retarded, RPN rules!"
Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
How often, in your daily use of the calculator, do you really find the need to pan an image around? How much text are you putting on the calculator's screen? A calculator is a dedicated device -- it is supposed to do math. The fact that you can play games on most of the modern ones is kind of cool, but it isn't the point. I have yet to see a calculator screen that does not display the amount of information that it needs to display -- i.e. a graph to give you a quick idea of what a function looks like. What more do you want?
Rhapsody in Numbers
It's not so much images, but text. I put entire chapters of reference data in my calculator. It is quite easy to transfer text files from my PC to the calculator, but they are difficult to view once there, due to the limited resolution of the screen.
Steve
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
Greg, I think you'll enjoy this journal entry from just over a year ago:
Create 2-digit trig table by memorizing 6 numbers.
It's long but here's a summary:
Memorize the sine of 0, 10, 20, 30, 37.5, and 45 degrees to 3 significant digits and you can interpolate sin 0-45. From there you can get sin, cos, and tangent for everything to 2 significant digits. Not quite good enough for engineering work but it will put you in the ballpark.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I would suggest the Either the newest Casio model or One of TI-84/89. The Casio does everthing the TI-84 does, and at half the price. It has a menu system that is quick and easy to use. The TI-84 is likely what your teacher will be familiar with, so if you run into trouble, there might be someone to help you. Chances are the TI-89 will be banned on anything but the AP exam or the SAT. Personally I prefer my HP, but I would not suggest a student buy one.
So why don't we go back in time together to the mid-90's, and you and I can hammer through some hard-core electrical engineering problem sets together. You can have an HP-48, I'll take a TI-81, and we'll see who wins at the 'ole plug-and-chug. What you probably haven't taken into account, is that you can't submit your problem set written out in RPN. So the time and errors that transpire in that back and forth translataion between the problem set and your calculator will more than compensate for what ever advantage in theory RPN may have.
Actually I prefer aerosol physics problems. I don't have the slightest idea why "submitting my problem set written out" is germaine. The comparison was not doing homework hand-ins, but solving equations. If you want to change the parameters of the comparison to something other than equation solving then I admit in advance you probably have both my HP-41 and 48 beat as emergency flashlights, too.
This was my first real calculator 20 years ago. IMHO it had the best UI and keyboard layout ever! It was also very fast and responsive -there was a little hack that made it use both of its 2 micros to make it twice as fast. Furthermore, it had virtually all of the graphing capability of the HP-48 on a smaller screen. It was a rugged unit, but was more fragile because of its clam-shell construction. After dropping it once too often, the plastic around the battery compartment fell apart. Its main drawback was a lack of a data input port. I would be happy to pay big $$ for a new calculator based on this design.
AD
For a sophomore in high school the TI-84+ is *the* calculator. Easy to learn, nice display, easy to program, USB computer interface. The TI-83+ is also ok, however, the 84+ has more memory. The TI-84+ can be used on all standard tests (because it can be cleared) and is the calc most recommended/required by most high schools. For a chem student its a charm... has a built-in periodic table of elements application that is fantastic. And just for fun the calculator can be customized with various colored front interchangeable front panels and protective slide covers. Everyone in our family owns one (they all look different). The machine will definitely get you through high school. For later years in college you may want to supplement with one of the HP models... who knows what will be available by then. Cheers.
Ichthus
>Furthermore, you need the exact numbers anyway whenever you want to solve something.
Many solvers are dependent on the initial guess. Graphing and zooming is one way to find that guess.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification
http://hp50g.pbwiki.com/Buyers%20guide Mick C
hp49g+ - Pros:
3 3/133789.html/ 38629.html/ 36950.html/ 15975.html (just kidding)p roductDetail/us_sketchpad_89.html
n onProductMulti/nspire_cas.html (even if it is ugly)/ 85069.html (I wish)
SD card reader
RPN AND Algebraic notation
Speaker
MUCH faster than the 89Ti
Powerful CAS library
Built-in assembly
hp49g+ - Cons:
Lower resolution
Older models have worthless keyboards
Harder to use
Smaller userbase
89Ti - Pros:
Much larger screen
A truely gigantic userbase; some INSANE things have been done with this calculator, and this is where the 89 really shines:
F-Zero for the calculator: http://www.ticalc.org/archives/news/articles/13/1
Headphone support: http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/386
Gameboy emulation: http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/369
Radium overclocking: http://www.ticalc.org/archives/news/articles/1/15
Geometer's Sketchpad: http://education.ti.com/educationportal/sites/US/
And much more.
89Ti - Cons:
Slow 3D graphing (a program allows a TI-83+ to do this faster than TI's built-in 3D grapher for the 89, even if you take resolution into account)
CAS sometimes behaves oddly (try the cube root of -27)
Much slower than hp49g+
No RPN (third party RPN programs aren't very good)
Well, that's my take on the situation. I've used both calcs and I've tried to be unbiased, and it's really up to you to decide. I personally have an 89 because I love my virtual globe, my tesseract grapher, ELIZA, my star chart, my All Your Base Are Belong To Us screensaver, and such. At the same time, I am envious of the hp49g+'s superior speed and graphing capabilities, and it (the hp49g+) is really fun to use. However, the title of ultimate calculator would have to go to one of the following:
Qonos: http://www.hpcalc.org/qonos.php (it looks so cool!)
TI-Nspire CAS: http://education.ti.com/educationportal/sites/US/
Voyage 400: http://www.ticalc.org/archives/news/articles/8/85