I was quite surprised when I read this, as well (not because I thought Bill Gates owned an iPod but because they even put that in there). Interesting that the author listed this as 100 things we did not know last year.
I know this sounds embarassing, but I actually thought that the parent of my "welcome to the world of *NIX" post said, "all that conf stuff is amazing.". Sorry. That's what I get for posting when I'm so tired.
Re:Here's what I think...
on
Why KDE Rules
·
· Score: 1
No, you're right, I haven't. When I started using GNU/Linux, GNOME was the default option. I discovered KDE much later. Annoyances like this as well as the memory resources needed, the clutter, and the About KDE in help menus made me dislike it all the more. I know that it is foolish and subjective but that's just how I see it.
Welcome to the world of *NIX. Plenty of ways to configure everything
Here's what I think...
on
Why KDE Rules
·
· Score: 0
My problem with KDE is that it never lets you forget you are using it. For example, when I click an icon, it starts bouncing. When I go to a KDE program, and press Help, I see About KDE along there with it. Also, it is quite cluttered and takes a long time to load. My last and final problem is that it encourages people to use the GUI rather than the terminal with configuration files which I think is a bad idea.
Exactly! Clueless users won't know these commands, and once they do they are no longer as clueless.
Are you saying that a person that knows how to log in as root and delete files can't be clueless. Imagine a 6-year-old at the wheel of a car. He knows what gas is and how to steer, but he is still clueless.
Compare that with windows, where you got admin rights by default, and you can wipe your system clean with the click of a mouse...
Oh, sure, I agree. The whole point I made a while back (when this whole discussion started) was that Dell would have a lot more to worry about if they shipped GNU/Linux. Windows users might be just as bad.
Yeah, that sucks. But probably not what they would do. They would probably add a script that runs as root and lets you add a user and change the root password.
Sure. But here is an example: When I was first introduce to GNU/Linux I was taught about Nautilus and the menu. I was also shown the terminal. They told me the command su and then the command for installing software (apt-get on Debian, which is what I use). For a while, I did use the mouse. The problem with this is that I did not learn much about the system that way. I eventually realized the whole idea of/home/ but I did not realize what things like/usr and especially/dev do. Eventually I got to the command line. One of the first commands I learned was rm because I wanted to start using the command line, as I realized it was faster and more effective, but needed to learn file managing tasks. Later I learned the command which and it showed me the paths to the commands so I knew what some of the other directories do. I never deleted them, mostly because I had enough knowledge about computers to know not to delete files which I don't know what they are. But many people do not have this knowledge
No, you got me wrong. I am quite aware that Windows is a lot less secure than GNU/Linux (I use Debian myself).
It *is* harder to mess up your system in GNU/Linux, and I agree with you. What I meant is that I have heard of less people messing up their Windows systems now-a-days than their GNU/Linux systems. Maybe it's because Windows manuals tend to be better than GNU/Linux manuals (manpages are not the easiest things to understand).
User-friendlyness not only depends on the interface but also how fool-proof is the software. It is a difficult ballance between keeping people who don't know what their doing away, while allowing those who do to work. In some ways, I think Microsoft has managed to do this (at least they provide a link allowing users to look at the files), but I think that there is still more to be desired. My own personal suggestion would be to make a user that only has certain privilidges like mounting and apt-get'ing (if you are using Debian or something similar). If you installed GNU/Linux for a friend, offer them some technical support, and don't tell them about root. Let them figure it out for themselves. When they do, they will probably be smart enough not to delete the files.
True, but most people don't delete them. Maybe it's because Microsoft decided that may of their lusers are idiots, and so they made a nice message informing them that they need not tamper with these files.
Also, with Windows, people are educated not to touch if you don't know what it is. On GNU/Linux, people are taught not to use root, but many do anyways because their used to normal accounts not fully working (as it happens or happened on Windows)
Yeah, that's the problem. Of course, this assumes that what the child is doing, is programming. In fact, I'd go as far to say as that the rule *discourages* kids from programming. It does not provide enough time to code, especially when a child is young and even the simplest of programs take a long time to think about. Instead, a 30 minute limit is perfect for IM'ing when everything goes by quickly
Except the problem with this idea is that Google is a magnet for many geniuses and visionaries. You hear of people quiting their jobs and moving to Google all the time (*hrm hrm* Microsoft), but very rarely do you hear of people leaving Google to work for someone else.
The title of this article begs the question: what large organization *doesn't* look for geniuses and visionaries.
In general, I think such contests are overreacted about. If you are truly a genius or a visionary you would prove it to NASA in an interview.
I am sorry. I did not mean that you should give USB drives to charities. I meant that they make good presents (to friends) and also that people should donate to open source projects such as Cygwin
I find that one of tme most useful things to give is storage, particularly portable storage such as (preferrably large USB Drives). Setting up a system at home is great, but imagine getting even, say a 256 MB drive, installing Cygwin (with X) on it, and using it to SSH into your machine from others, even if your own machine is GNU/Linux and the clients are Windows. It's like carrying your own system around your neck at all times, and when you change something, you don't have to update anything.
What exactly do the kids do? If they play games all day or chat, then I can understand your concern. But if they are doing something worthwhile, like trying to figure out how the machine works, maybe drawing a picture, or even programming something simple, then I think limiting their time would be more harmful than beneficial. Imagine if you were working, just realized the solution to a problem, and suddenly the machine shuts down on you.
We will ruin it for everyone. Not only will this Slashdot Linspire, it will also triple the amount of Linspire's available. Now ~67% will be aquired for free!
Slashdot Mirror
Perhaps the reason they posted it on Slashdot was that they were hoping that one of the thousands of programmers there would be able to fix it. ;-)
I was quite surprised when I read this, as well (not because I thought Bill Gates owned an iPod but because they even put that in there). Interesting that the author listed this as 100 things we did not know last year.
I know this sounds embarassing, but I actually thought that the parent of my "welcome to the world of *NIX" post said, "all that conf stuff is amazing.". Sorry. That's what I get for posting when I'm so tired.
No, you're right, I haven't. When I started using GNU/Linux, GNOME was the default option. I discovered KDE much later. Annoyances like this as well as the memory resources needed, the clutter, and the About KDE in help menus made me dislike it all the more. I know that it is foolish and subjective but that's just how I see it.
Welcome to the world of *NIX. Plenty of ways to configure everything
My problem with KDE is that it never lets you forget you are using it. For example, when I click an icon, it starts bouncing. When I go to a KDE program, and press Help, I see About KDE along there with it. Also, it is quite cluttered and takes a long time to load. My last and final problem is that it encourages people to use the GUI rather than the terminal with configuration files which I think is a bad idea.
Are you saying that a person that knows how to log in as root and delete files can't be clueless. Imagine a 6-year-old at the wheel of a car. He knows what gas is and how to steer, but he is still clueless.
Oh, sure, I agree. The whole point I made a while back (when this whole discussion started) was that Dell would have a lot more to worry about if they shipped GNU/Linux. Windows users might be just as bad.
Yeah, that sucks. But probably not what they would do. They would probably add a script that runs as root and lets you add a user and change the root password.
Sure. But here is an example: When I was first introduce to GNU/Linux I was taught about Nautilus and the menu. I was also shown the terminal. They told me the command su and then the command for installing software (apt-get on Debian, which is what I use). For a while, I did use the mouse. The problem with this is that I did not learn much about the system that way. I eventually realized the whole idea of /home/ but I did not realize what things like /usr and especially /dev do. Eventually I got to the command line. One of the first commands I learned was rm because I wanted to start using the command line, as I realized it was faster and more effective, but needed to learn file managing tasks. Later I learned the command which and it showed me the paths to the commands so I knew what some of the other directories do. I never deleted them, mostly because I had enough knowledge about computers to know not to delete files which I don't know what they are. But many people do not have this knowledge
No, you got me wrong. I am quite aware that Windows is a lot less secure than GNU/Linux (I use Debian myself). It *is* harder to mess up your system in GNU/Linux, and I agree with you. What I meant is that I have heard of less people messing up their Windows systems now-a-days than their GNU/Linux systems. Maybe it's because Windows manuals tend to be better than GNU/Linux manuals (manpages are not the easiest things to understand).
Your right. Sorry about that.
User-friendlyness not only depends on the interface but also how fool-proof is the software. It is a difficult ballance between keeping people who don't know what their doing away, while allowing those who do to work. In some ways, I think Microsoft has managed to do this (at least they provide a link allowing users to look at the files), but I think that there is still more to be desired. My own personal suggestion would be to make a user that only has certain privilidges like mounting and apt-get'ing (if you are using Debian or something similar). If you installed GNU/Linux for a friend, offer them some technical support, and don't tell them about root. Let them figure it out for themselves. When they do, they will probably be smart enough not to delete the files.
True, but most people don't delete them. Maybe it's because Microsoft decided that may of their lusers are idiots, and so they made a nice message informing them that they need not tamper with these files.
Also, with Windows, people are educated not to touch if you don't know what it is. On GNU/Linux, people are taught not to use root, but many do anyways because their used to normal accounts not fully working (as it happens or happened on Windows)
Might I add that had they installed GNU/Linux, thier tech support would probably have a lot more to deal with than simply those who got a virus.
Just imagine:
Tech support: Dell Tech support. How can I help you?
User: Hi, what is the /usr and /dev directories
Tech support: The former has important commands and libraries. The latter has devices for file systems.
User: Oh, well I just ran rm -r /usr /dev as root. How can I fix that?
Yeah, that's the problem. Of course, this assumes that what the child is doing, is programming. In fact, I'd go as far to say as that the rule *discourages* kids from programming. It does not provide enough time to code, especially when a child is young and even the simplest of programs take a long time to think about. Instead, a 30 minute limit is perfect for IM'ing when everything goes by quickly
Except the problem with this idea is that Google is a magnet for many geniuses and visionaries. You hear of people quiting their jobs and moving to Google all the time (*hrm hrm* Microsoft), but very rarely do you hear of people leaving Google to work for someone else.
Well said :-)
The title of this article begs the question: what large organization *doesn't* look for geniuses and visionaries. In general, I think such contests are overreacted about. If you are truly a genius or a visionary you would prove it to NASA in an interview.
I am sorry. I did not mean that you should give USB drives to charities. I meant that they make good presents (to friends) and also that people should donate to open source projects such as Cygwin
I find that one of tme most useful things to give is storage, particularly portable storage such as (preferrably large USB Drives). Setting up a system at home is great, but imagine getting even, say a 256 MB drive, installing Cygwin (with X) on it, and using it to SSH into your machine from others, even if your own machine is GNU/Linux and the clients are Windows. It's like carrying your own system around your neck at all times, and when you change something, you don't have to update anything.
What exactly do the kids do? If they play games all day or chat, then I can understand your concern. But if they are doing something worthwhile, like trying to figure out how the machine works, maybe drawing a picture, or even programming something simple, then I think limiting their time would be more harmful than beneficial. Imagine if you were working, just realized the solution to a problem, and suddenly the machine shuts down on you.
We will ruin it for everyone. Not only will this Slashdot Linspire, it will also triple the amount of Linspire's available. Now ~67% will be aquired for free!
Just another reason to use GNU/Linux!
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