No, everyone doesn't want to be a rich greedy bastard. Selling Linux for big $$$ is the Microsoft way: get-rich-quick off other's work.
Last time I checked, the GPL did not forbid to make money off GPL'd software. Now, I wonder why nobody put it in there if it is such a big no-no... I mean, any author who puts his/her work under GPL *knows* somebody could take that software and make money from it the way the bigger Linux distros do - if you don't like it, use another licence.
The GPL is not available for viewing by the end users (as in hidden from end users).
Would you care to back up your statement with facts, please? The top directory of the Red Hat installation CD contains COPYING which in turn contains the GPL. Many packages put the GPL as a files named COPYING in/usr/doc. I hardly call that "hidden".
While I appreciate people who point out possible dangers for the Open Source movements, I hate folks who simply sling FUD without facts.
...not by far. Just the biggest case, so far. Think about it: How many corporations, libraries, parents etc.pp. have started filtering already? Censorship all around... Time to get those Anti-Censorship-Proxies a bit more organised (well, maybe better *disorganised*), it seems...
Don't screw it up by helping those that abuse the rights of their own people!!
In that case, I expect you were one of those organising demonstrations when the US were arming Saddam Hussein? Or going against interventions in Middle America? And you're opposed to death penalty, I suppose?
Let's face it - I have yet to see a country with a clean bill when it comes to human rights - and the US is no exception, unfortunately (if it were, I'd know where to find Paradise, maybe...).
Oh for $DEITY's sake, get real! While many postings on Slashdot were more than suitable to reinforce many prejudices "we" Europeans use to have about "the" Americans, it's not as if Europe was paradise. Yes, we *do* have groups and cliques and suchlike in our schools and yes, we *do* have clueless teachers and lecturers and whatnot and yes, we most certainly *do* have outsiders in our schools (I should know for one) which don't get help from said teachers (if it hadn't been for my parents......but let's not got there.). We might be lucky insofar as the whole problem mightn't have reached the American extent - YET. But by denying that we *do* have those problems, we'll impair our view when trying to solve and prevent them! So, don't go fooling yourself, just because you happened to be lucky.
Thomas
P.S.: I'm talking about German schools and universities - can't judge schools in other European countries.
It's just proof sterotypes are bad.
on
UNIX for Moms
·
· Score: 1
Installing from source tar balls is not much harder.
cd/usr/local/src tar xzf app.tar.gz cd appdir ./configure make make install
ROFL! Thanks, you just made my day... Honestly, the days of you being a complete computer novice (better: *nix novice) seem to far enough behind you so you've forgotten all about them. First of all: There are *plenty* occasions where your fixed set of instructions described above doesn't work ("What does.tgz stand for?" - "Huh? There is no 'configure'?" - "cd? Where do I have to type that?" - you get the picture) - and I'm not even talking about downright compile problems (people have problems figuring out dependencies with tools like rpm - do you honestly think they'll be able to figure them out during a tarball install?). No, tarball installs will remain the domain of the computer literate, though for sufficiently low values of "literate". For novices and non-techies (especially those coming from a 'dows background), we'll have to do better than that. Run an install script (preferably in X), answer a few questions (maybe - prefereably not), run program. Finished. *That* would be the ideal. How close can we come to that?
I still think that if two children were able to get their hands on those guns it can't have been all that difficult to get to the guns. If they *were* locked away properly, *how* did those children get them? You're honestly telling me that his house and gun cabinet were so easy to get in that a 11 and a 13 year old could do it?
As for the break in: If I have a weapon in my house and if I go to reasonable lengths to make it unavailable to third persons, no, then I should not be sued - you're right there. If I have that weapon basically "lying around" then yes, it's my fault that I didn't lock it away, so to a certain degree I would see responsibility on my part. Basically the same as with the army guarding their weapons to prevent theft and unauthorised use. And if I can't guarantee at least a minimal protection against the theft of such a weapon I shouldn't be allowed one - period. There are too many of them anyway.
They are suing the gradfather, who had the guns, in a locked gun cabinet, in his locked house. They claim the grandfather shouldn't have had guns. The gradfather IS AN ARKANSAS GAME AND FISH AND WILDLIFE OFFICIAL. IT IS HIS JOB.
If it is that guy's job to have weapons and the kids got their hands on them, THEN HE DIDN'T LOCK THEM AWAY PROPERLY AND DESERVES TO GET SUED. Sheesh - in a profession like that he should know what damaga guns can do and he'd better make damn sure that those weapons aren't accessible.
Sigh. Everybody here keeps wondering what set him off or who should have been sued or even how it could only happen in America. The real moral of the story, Guns+kids=trouble. Or maybe Guns+wackos=trouble. Or even guns+(wacko kids)=trouble^2.
Amen. It never ceases to amaze me just *how* easy it seems to be for those kids to get guns.:-(
As for America, I like it in spite of the morons and the sheep. It sure beats the places I've been where being killed by the government is a lot more common than being killed in school.
Errm - correct me if I'm wrong, but the US gouvernment (State gouvernments) *does* kill, quite frequently at that. Can't see how that's supposed to be better, even though it doesn't occur as often as in the countries you seem to be talking about.
I want to emigrate to Mars. I'd like it to be a haven for Smart People. I don't want all the morons I'm trying to get away from to be waiting for me when I get there.
Hm - wasn't that one of the reasons why so many people emigrated from Europe to the U.S.A. over the past two or three centuries? Doesn't seem to have worked...;-)
On the interrupting, you obviously have a different notion of free speech to me. Do you seriously feel that freedom of speech is violated every time someone is interrupted?
Most certainly yes! If somebody consistently interrupts me to correct me, (s)he is obviously trying to change what I'm saying - thus curtailing my right of free speech. Mind you: Constantly interrupting somebody to "correct" someone is a hell of a lot different from letting the person finish and then saying something along the lines of "I think it should be... , but..." and then answering, don't you think? The latter, while probably annoying over time, is free speech, the former is a rude attempt to limit someone's free speech.
Funny that - judging by the German "Liberal Party" (F.D.P.), I'd think "liberals" to be extreme capitalists - nothing could be further from communism of socialism...
Another thing, RMS is right when he says free software has nothing to do with money. You mention purchasing a FTP program for $100. Well you still can purchase a free software FTP program for $100. If I create a GPL FTP program and you wish to buy it and I ask for $100, you either have to give me the money or you don't get the software. Even if this software is around on the internet, or whatever (and you still for some odd reason want it from me). Even if I have an internet connection and I could let you download it in 5 minutes. GNU does not impose rules against software distribution cost. But, it does give freedoms when you receive my software. Once I give you my FTP program for $100 and (provided its GPL) you can redistribute it over the internet, modify it and give it to friends, etc. You can even charge a distribution cost from the software I created (this is what Red Hat does.. but they also provide tech support as an extra service). Also, I must allow you access to source code when you give me the $100.
That is all nice and well in an ideal world. The question I'm wondering about though is this:
Supposed you do sell your GPL'ed FTP program. You sell it once. What on earth is stopping the rest of the world from getting it from the first buyer - without you ever seeing a $ again? The GPL allows this and it's one of its strengths, no doubt. But to actually expect being able to make money from selling GPL'ed code (I mean from selling the code itself, not from distributing, supporting, etc.pp.) seems slightly naive to me (or let's say: idealistic). Nonetheless - I'm glad GPL/GNU exist, that's for sure, but I'm not so sure if GPL can realistically be seen as not related to the money problem at all.
Urgh, please no[0]... IMO, Framemaker makes Word look good... Nah, if the only choice on the system is Framemaker, I'll take LaTeX anyday... About as complicated (LyX ight solve that) and more flexible *and* portable. I mean - after all you *were* talking about scientific documents! Unfortunately, our SysAds dumped LaTeX - "everybody is using Framemaker or Word, anyway!" - bah...
Why wanting a browser ported that even in its latest incarnation still doesn't support all standards? See this Press Release for more...
"We'd hoped that the latest round of browsers would take the opportunity to get things right. Internet Explorer 5.0 is an opportunity lost," Olsen said. "We'd like to know: when will Internet Explorer have full support for any one Web standard?"
Without them, we could stop killing people with the smoke from coal power plants. Like France, we could be 70% nuclear. Our air would be cleaner and acid rain would be reduced.
If you really want that, stop using your car and use buses, trains and cycles - or walk. Believe me, if everybody does that, it'll most likely have a larger impact. And if the powers that be really get a clue, they'll discover that currently our best energy source is to stop wasting energy - not building nuclear power plants. Or did you solve that nasty problem with the nuclear waste last night and nobody noticed? Harrisburg? Chernobyl? Sellafield?
[...] or if all of europe had gone communist. [...]
Actually - I have yet to see a *single* communist country on the face of this earth... So far, I've only seen some poor excuses for socialism. It's a bit like the old "hacker vs. cracker" thing, really. Real communism is most likely condemmed to be a nice dream - like real christianity and other things with a high moral goal...:-/
Can't see what's wrong with thos Win95 keys - I think e.g. under Linux they make a nice replacement for the Sun Meta Keys I was missing. Now, if only I could find a PC keyboard with those "Stop", "Again", "Props", etc. function keys like the Sun Keyboards...:-}
Exactly my thinking. MP3s may be great to "prelisten" music and they may be handy, but if I want to really *enjoy* music at home, there's nothing like a good (and I *mean* good - or better...) stereo and a good LP (in rare circumstances a CD will do). Why anybody would want to use compressed audio for "real" listening, is beyond me...
Slashdot Mirror
No, everyone doesn't want to be a rich greedy bastard. Selling Linux for big $$$ is the Microsoft way: get-rich-quick off other's work.
/usr/doc. I hardly call that "hidden".
Last time I checked, the GPL did not forbid to make money off GPL'd software. Now, I wonder why nobody put it in there if it is such a big no-no... I mean, any author who puts his/her work under GPL *knows* somebody could take that software and make money from it the way the bigger Linux distros do - if you don't like it, use another licence.
The GPL is not available for viewing by the end users (as in hidden from end users).
Would you care to back up your statement with facts, please? The top directory of the Red Hat installation CD contains COPYING which in turn contains the GPL. Many packages put the GPL as a files named COPYING in
While I appreciate people who point out possible dangers for the Open Source movements, I hate folks who simply sling FUD without facts.
Regards,
Thomas
...not by far. Just the biggest case, so far.
Think about it: How many corporations, libraries, parents etc.pp. have started filtering already? Censorship all around... Time to get those Anti-Censorship-Proxies a bit more organised (well, maybe better *disorganised*), it seems...
Argathin
Don't screw it up by helping those that abuse the rights of their own people!!
In that case, I expect you were one of those organising demonstrations when the US were arming Saddam Hussein? Or going against interventions in Middle America? And you're opposed to death penalty, I suppose?
Let's face it - I have yet to see a country with a clean bill when it comes to human rights - and the US is no exception, unfortunately (if it were, I'd know where to find Paradise, maybe...).
Argathin
Oh for $DEITY's sake, get real! While many postings on Slashdot were more than suitable to reinforce many prejudices "we" Europeans use to have about "the" Americans, it's not as if Europe was paradise. Yes, we *do* have groups and cliques and suchlike in our schools and yes, we *do* have clueless teachers and lecturers and whatnot and yes, we most certainly *do* have outsiders in our schools (I should know for one) which don't get help from said teachers (if it hadn't been for my parents... ...but let's not got there.). We might be lucky insofar as the whole problem mightn't have reached the American extent - YET. But by denying that we *do* have those problems, we'll impair our view when trying to solve and prevent them! So, don't go fooling yourself, just because you happened to be lucky.
Thomas
P.S.: I'm talking about German schools and universities - can't judge schools in other European countries.
Installing from source tar balls is not much harder.
cd
tar xzf app.tar.gz
cd appdir
./configure
make
make install
ROFL! Thanks, you just made my day... Honestly, the days of you being a complete computer novice (better: *nix novice) seem to far enough behind you so you've forgotten all about them.
First of all: There are *plenty* occasions where your fixed set of instructions described above doesn't work ("What does
No, tarball installs will remain the domain of the computer literate, though for sufficiently low values of "literate". For novices and non-techies (especially those coming from a 'dows background), we'll have to do better than that. Run an install script (preferably in X), answer a few questions (maybe - prefereably not), run program. Finished. *That* would be the ideal. How close can we come to that?
Argathin
I still think that if two children were able to get their hands on those guns it can't have been all that difficult to get to the guns. If they *were* locked away properly, *how* did those children get them? You're honestly telling me that his house and gun cabinet were so easy to get in that a 11 and a 13 year old could do it?
As for the break in: If I have a weapon in my house and if I go to reasonable lengths to make it unavailable to third persons, no, then I should not be sued - you're right there. If I have that weapon basically "lying around" then yes, it's my fault that I didn't lock it away, so to a certain degree I would see responsibility on my part. Basically the same as with the army guarding their weapons to prevent theft and unauthorised use. And if I can't guarantee at least a minimal protection against the theft of such a weapon I shouldn't be allowed one - period. There are too many of them anyway.
Regards,
Argathin
They are suing the gradfather, who had the guns, in a locked gun cabinet, in his locked house. They claim the grandfather shouldn't have had guns. The gradfather IS AN ARKANSAS GAME AND FISH AND WILDLIFE OFFICIAL. IT IS HIS JOB.
If it is that guy's job to have weapons and the kids got their hands on them, THEN HE DIDN'T LOCK THEM AWAY PROPERLY AND DESERVES TO GET SUED.
Sheesh - in a profession like that he should know what damaga guns can do and he'd better make damn sure that those weapons aren't accessible.
Argathin
Sigh. Everybody here keeps wondering what set him off or who should have been sued or even how it could only happen in America. The real moral of the story, Guns+kids=trouble. Or maybe Guns+wackos=trouble. Or even guns+(wacko kids)=trouble^2.
:-(
Amen. It never ceases to amaze me just *how* easy it seems to be for those kids to get guns.
As for America, I like it in spite of the morons and the sheep. It sure beats the places I've been where being killed by the government is a lot more common than being killed in school.
Errm - correct me if I'm wrong, but the US gouvernment (State gouvernments) *does* kill, quite frequently at that. Can't see how that's supposed to be better, even though it doesn't occur as often as in the countries you seem to be talking about.
Argathin
I want to emigrate to Mars. I'd like it to be a haven for Smart People. I don't want all the morons I'm trying to get away from to be waiting for me when I get there.
;-)
Hm - wasn't that one of the reasons why so many people emigrated from Europe to the U.S.A. over the past two or three centuries? Doesn't seem to have worked...
Argathin
On the interrupting, you obviously have a different notion of free speech to me. Do you seriously feel that freedom of speech is violated every time someone is interrupted?
Most certainly yes! If somebody consistently interrupts me to correct me, (s)he is obviously trying to change what I'm saying - thus curtailing my right of free speech.
Mind you: Constantly interrupting somebody to "correct" someone is a hell of a lot different from letting the person finish and then saying something along the lines of "I think it should be... , but
Argathin
Funny that - judging by the German "Liberal Party" (F.D.P.), I'd think "liberals" to be extreme capitalists - nothing could be further from communism of socialism...
Argathin
P.S.: Where were the "Greens" in the poll list?!
Another thing, RMS is right when he says free software has nothing to do with money. You mention purchasing a FTP program for $100. Well you still can purchase a free software FTP program for $100. If I create a GPL FTP program and you wish to buy it and I ask for $100, you either have to give me the money or you don't get the software. Even if this software is around on the internet, or whatever (and you still for some odd reason want it from me). Even if I have an internet connection and I could let you download it in 5 minutes. GNU does not impose rules against software distribution cost. But, it does give freedoms when you receive my software. Once I give you my FTP program for $100 and (provided its GPL) you can redistribute it over the internet, modify it and give it to friends, etc. You can even charge a distribution cost from the software I created (this is what Red Hat does.. but they also provide tech support as an extra service).
Also, I must allow you access to source code when you give me the $100.
That is all nice and well in an ideal world. The question I'm wondering about though is this:
Supposed you do sell your GPL'ed FTP program. You sell it once. What on earth is stopping the rest of the world from getting it from the first buyer - without you ever seeing a $ again? The GPL allows this and it's one of its strengths, no doubt. But to actually expect being able to make money from selling GPL'ed code (I mean from selling the code itself, not from distributing, supporting, etc.pp.) seems slightly naive to me (or let's say: idealistic). Nonetheless - I'm glad GPL/GNU exist, that's for sure, but I'm not so sure if GPL can realistically be seen as not related to the money problem at all.
Argathin
I wish dpkg were the standard packing tool for most Linux distros instead of the proprietary rpm.
Last time I checked[0], rpm was GPL - hardly proprietary... Check your facts, man!
argathin
[0] about five minutes ago...
Urgh, please no[0]... IMO, Framemaker makes Word look good...
:-)
Nah, if the only choice on the system is Framemaker, I'll take LaTeX anyday... About as complicated (LyX ight solve that) and more flexible *and* portable. I mean - after all you *were* talking about scientific documents!
Unfortunately, our SysAds dumped LaTeX - "everybody is using Framemaker or Word, anyway!" - bah...
Argathin
[0] Ok, for choice's sake, go ahead...
Why wanting a browser ported that even in its latest incarnation still doesn't support all standards? See this Press Release for more...
"We'd hoped that the latest round of browsers would take the
opportunity to get things right. Internet Explorer 5.0 is an
opportunity lost," Olsen said. "We'd like to know: when will
Internet Explorer have full support for any one Web standard?"
Argathin
Without them, we could stop killing people
with the smoke from coal power plants.
Like France, we could be 70% nuclear.
Our air would be cleaner and acid rain would
be reduced.
If you really want that, stop using your car and use buses, trains and cycles - or walk. Believe me, if everybody does that, it'll most likely have a larger impact. And if the powers that be really get a clue, they'll discover that currently our best energy source is to stop wasting energy - not building nuclear power plants. Or did you solve that nasty problem with the nuclear waste last night and nobody noticed? Harrisburg? Chernobyl? Sellafield?
Argathin
Hm... Let me see...
If
a) you *do* work for MS
and
b) you code (or work) like you spell/write
and
c) there's more of you in that company (likely?)
I would say that explains a thing or two about the
bad quality of most MS software...
Argathin
[...]
:-/
or if all of europe had gone communist.
[...]
Actually - I have yet to see a *single* communist country on the face of this earth... So far, I've only seen some poor excuses for socialism. It's a bit like the old "hacker vs. cracker" thing, really.
Real communism is most likely condemmed to be a nice dream - like real christianity and other things with a high moral goal...
argathin
Can't see what's wrong with thos Win95 keys - I think e.g. under Linux they make a nice replacement for the Sun Meta Keys I was missing. Now, if only I could find a PC keyboard with those "Stop", "Again", "Props", etc. function keys like the Sun Keyboards... :-}
Argathin
Exactly my thinking. MP3s may be great to "prelisten" music and they may be handy, but if I want to really *enjoy* music at home, there's nothing like a good (and I *mean* good - or better...) stereo and a good LP (in rare circumstances a CD will do). Why anybody would want to use compressed audio for "real" listening, is beyond me...
argathin