"As a school tech director for ten years and now a consultant for a company with a specialty practice in outsourcing K12 IT"
Now that we've established you credentials..:)
"the issue isn't how much MS costs. It's the continuing cost of support, and beleive it or not a properly configured Windows system is VERY efficient"
From personal experience Windows (heavy use by game players) I find the opposite to be true. Windows requires a total reinstall at about the four month mark. It just sloooows down so much, defrag cleaning out the registry and so on, has no effect. So by the time I get to the last one, the first one requires a reinstall. There was even a company selling a utility to keep your heavy apps on different Windows partitions so as the machine won't slow down over time. The utility provided a hot key to switch between apps..
With Linux, and baring upgrades, it just runs and runs...
"Our tech to computer ratio was over 1:700 and we resolved most trouble calls in less than 24 hours"
Well the tech to computer ratio at a f400 company I worked for was 12:400 so all I can say is, you must be drinking different koolaid.
"The range of educational software is just not there for Linux, and it's only in the last couple years that the management utilities have started to mature for it"
Generally, learning to use the desktop is the best tutorial a kid can have. What educational software are you referring to. What functionality in Linux 'management utilities' has been immature these last couple of years?
"Ironically the wild environment of Windows produced excellent management tools early on"
I don't understand this bit, define 'wild environment' and what management tools are you referring to, 'Active Directory'? I understand that there was a market in tools to manage the 'management' tools in 'Active Directory':)
"Windows has "dll hell" but Linux suffers from "lib purgatory" among other maladies"
The whole world is familiar with the former, but personally I've never heard of the latter...
"I used to work in a school about 5 years ago when I.. started changing the network backbone to Linux in my school"
Do you mind providing the name of the school? What do you mean, you changed the switches & routers?, if so what did they run on before and why the need to change ?
"I was a newbie in the tech departments at the time"
But they let you upgrade the 'backbone'?
"The existing Linux "expert".. had a problem and.. refused to look at it citing the amount of time and his previous Linux experience"
What was the nature of his problem, what was he tryign to do, give specifics. Did either of you contact other educational facilities involved in Linux migration.. ?
"Bottom line what it comes down to is budget strapped school systems can't afford a sizable tech department that can take the time to research and develop new systems"
What research do you need to browse the Internet, email and do word processing, spreadsheets etc, all of which are currently available on Windows...
"At the university I went to the linux lab with Red Hat cost more to license than an equivalent sized XP installed lab"
What was the name of this university and why didn't they go with CentOS or Fedora
"Granted the linux lab was licensed as workstation installs (more expensive, but desktop didn't allow multiple users remoting in)"
Where does it say that ? My understanding is that you pay for a support contract, but as you are in a 'Linux lab' full of huge Linux geeks, you hardly need it:)
"I vaguely remember there was some weirdness with the RedHat licensing for education.. one would assume the linux licensing would have a slight edge regardless of the install type"
"Linux is pretty bad when it comes to central management"
Have you tried to SSH into the machines and running CRON scripts to relieve you of the burden?
What services exactly are you providing to the desktop users? What does this school do that requires such complexity?
"I am responsible for administering a school network using Linux for servers and desktops"
How many servers, what distro, who is your support contract with. Have you contacted other education facilities using Linux? Do you also use Linux on the desktops?
"i'm the only one associated with the organisation who can come remotely close to knowing how stuff works or what to do when stuff breaks"
How exactly does the stuff break? Have you considered documenting how the stuff works, if in the event of, God forbid, you geting run over by a bus ?
"At least my business model is 'recession-proof', but frankly, the people running the school are powerless, and disenfranchised"
Good for you, it's not as if Windows ever made work for anyone..:) But what part of the planet are you on, aren't there not any other trained Linux geeks in your area ?
"i find it pretty difficult to articulate any actual benefits of keeping the system on Linux"
In terms of education, what do the teachers and students require that is not being provided by the current system? Web access, email, course material.. ?
"Its a good deal for me as they're kind of stuck paying me to admin the system, but does it really have to be this complex?"
I hadn't realized Linux was the way to go to bilk up the overtime..:)
I'm quite frankly puzzled how a Linux sysadmin with real world programming and admin experience can find IT so complex, personally, once I set up some scripts, the system runs itself, and baring hardware failure, it just runs and runs...
"Thats why Windows wins in schools"
They why does MS have to expend so much energy is keeping it out of schools. If most peoples experiences were like yours they would all be flying back to the safe arms of MS, you being a huge Linux geek and all:)
"My small company has done the very same thing.. there's nothing 'unethical' or 'monopolistic' about it. It's normal business competition"
You mean your company went to other peoples customers and lie about their product and sabotage third party apps.. and if you believe that's not 'unethical' you've been whoring too long...
"what it doesn't say is that the website--and Wissner-Gross-- directly benefits from this kind of research. C02Stats offers clients plans, ranging from $5 a month to $100"
"I think the real issue here is the lack of best practice by the IT people.. to take the necessary steps and precautions to configure things the "right" way, or going with best practices"
If you don't mind me saying so, you're talking happy horse.shit. 'Best practice' in most businesses consist of the IT staff continually patching/repairing old hardware, in a misguided attempt by management to save on the IT budget.
"I understand that people have been turned down for budgets on upgrading items, but I also contribute this behavior to superior/supervisor misunderstanding"
It's also difficult to communicate with superiors, when you're not allowed to email anyone. You generally find out about the companies 'vision' by reading about it in the trade papers. In an episode straight out of Dilbert, I arrive at work on 9:00am Monday to discover we are going to be launching a fashion Web site at 6:00pm. Management are going to have in all the fashion people, photographers, journalists etc.
Only thing is they forgot to tell us about it, so there is no web site to speak of. Someone did leave in a selections of photos, but never told us what for, as management consider IT types too beneath them to actually address them in the first person.
Oh, and btw, none of the IT people are invited to the reception. I guess this is why no one has worked for this company longer that nine months...
"You guys are just asking to get bombed by the IRA!"
That isn't going to happen since it has since become knowledge that the IRA was being run by the a branch of British security, the Force Research Unit..
"Kohlmann outlined Operation Praline, a sting operation in the U.K. that ultimately uncovered a would-be terrorist network in three countries led by Aabid Khan, a then-19-year-old Briton"
"Evan Kohlmann, a U.S. terrorism analyst who advised the prosecution at Khan's trial, said"..
"Rizwaan Sabir and Hicham Yezza were reported to the police by their own university and detained for six days last May. Sabir had been studying extremism and had asked Yezza to print out a document for him."
-- PROTHERO
Do you believe this crap, Dascombe?
DASCOMBE
It's not our job to believe it,
Lewis. Our job is to tell the
people --
What good is freedom of expression if there is no freedom of response. So-called democratic states attempt to suppress descent on social networks by painting them as havens for terrorists. It's curious as both the capitalists and the communists are dead scared of people talking to each other, without the moderating influence of some state-run or private-enterprise owned media.
Yoani Sanchez and her blogging comrades are now the targets of the Castro regime's censors--and police.
"The ability to use your favorite program to get a certain task accomplished without having to worry about compatibility problems"
Compatibility wasn't a problem until the worlds chief software architect mandated it so. One of the first things computers were designed to do was talk to one another, it's all ones and noughts you know..:)
FUD INJECTION COUNT:
01. Just an excuse to get a Windows discount.. 02. Linux is communist.. 03. it's open standards never Open Source.. 04. it's forced on the end users.. 05. you can't get work done with 'free' software..
"Communist and Socialist nations tend to be able to handle the big changes quicker through mandate while capitalists tend to peel slowly. TO each their own, I for one avoid getting cut in the first place..."
A novel and unique critique of dialectical materialism. The only real world experiment in communism collapsed under its own inefficiencies. As I recall, you couldn't even get razor blades in Moscow..
"I think open standards are much more important than open source software"
Straight out of the MS FUD manual. Like, let then use 'free' software as long as they us our Intellectual Property and Patent dues. When does your shift on slashdot finish ?
"IMO, this is not necessarily good. Forcing free software on someone is not going to generate all good comments"
Beats forcing people to use software through the use of MOUs and when was the last time you can provide a citation for, when management consulted people on what software they used?
EDGI is a customer-focused program that is for circumstances (like the one you reference) where an education and/or government customer is going to purchase naked PC'S or PC'S w/Linux..
Slashdot Mirror
"One thing I haven't seen anywhere is who will be taking over Steve's responsibility for the next 5-6 months that he is out"
"I have asked Tim Cook to be responsible for Apple's day to day operations"
http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12309
Most educational software isn't worth the bits it's written in, best just let them have at the desktop or use the
"As a school tech director for ten years and now a consultant for a company with a specialty practice in outsourcing K12 IT"
.. :)
..
...
:)
...
Now that we've established you credentials
"the issue isn't how much MS costs. It's the continuing cost of support, and beleive it or not a properly configured Windows system is VERY efficient"
From personal experience Windows (heavy use by game players) I find the opposite to be true. Windows requires a total reinstall at about the four month mark. It just sloooows down so much, defrag cleaning out the registry and so on, has no effect. So by the time I get to the last one, the first one requires a reinstall. There was even a company selling a utility to keep your heavy apps on different Windows partitions so as the machine won't slow down over time. The utility provided a hot key to switch between apps
With Linux, and baring upgrades, it just runs and runs
"Our tech to computer ratio was over 1:700 and we resolved most trouble calls in less than 24 hours"
Well the tech to computer ratio at a f400 company I worked for was 12:400 so all I can say is, you must be drinking different koolaid.
"The range of educational software is just not there for Linux, and it's only in the last couple years that the management utilities have started to mature for it" Generally, learning to use the desktop is the best tutorial a kid can have. What educational software are you referring to. What functionality in Linux 'management utilities' has been immature these last couple of years?
"Ironically the wild environment of Windows produced excellent management tools early on"
I don't understand this bit, define 'wild environment' and what management tools are you referring to, 'Active Directory'? I understand that there was a market in tools to manage the 'management' tools in 'Active Directory'
"Windows has "dll hell" but Linux suffers from "lib purgatory" among other maladies"
The whole world is familiar with the former, but personally I've never heard of the latter
"I used to work in a school about 5 years ago when I .. started changing the network backbone to Linux in my school"
.. had a problem and .. refused to look at it citing the amount of time and his previous Linux experience"
.. ?
...
Do you mind providing the name of the school? What do you mean, you changed the switches & routers?, if so what did they run on before and why the need to change ?
"I was a newbie in the tech departments at the time"
But they let you upgrade the 'backbone'?
"The existing Linux "expert"
What was the nature of his problem, what was he tryign to do, give specifics. Did either of you contact other educational facilities involved in Linux migration
"Bottom line what it comes down to is budget strapped school systems can't afford a sizable tech department that can take the time to research and develop new systems"
What research do you need to browse the Internet, email and do word processing, spreadsheets etc, all of which are currently available on Windows
"At the university I went to the linux lab with Red Hat cost more to license than an equivalent sized XP installed lab"
:)
.. one would assume the linux licensing would have a slight edge regardless of the install type"
What was the name of this university and why didn't they go with CentOS or Fedora
"Granted the linux lab was licensed as workstation installs (more expensive, but desktop didn't allow multiple users remoting in)"
Where does it say that ? My understanding is that you pay for a support contract, but as you are in a 'Linux lab' full of huge Linux geeks, you hardly need it
"I vaguely remember there was some weirdness with the RedHat licensing for education
What ?
"Linux is pretty bad when it comes to central management"
.. :) But what part of the planet are you on, aren't there not any other trained Linux geeks in your area ?
.. ?
.. :)
...
:)
Have you tried to SSH into the machines and running CRON scripts to relieve you of the burden?
What services exactly are you providing to the desktop users? What does this school do that requires such complexity?
"I am responsible for administering a school network using Linux for servers and desktops"
How many servers, what distro, who is your support contract with. Have you contacted other education facilities using Linux? Do you also use Linux on the desktops?
"i'm the only one associated with the organisation who can come remotely close to knowing how stuff works or what to do when stuff breaks"
How exactly does the stuff break? Have you considered documenting how the stuff works, if in the event of, God forbid, you geting run over by a bus ?
"At least my business model is 'recession-proof', but frankly, the people running the school are powerless, and disenfranchised"
Good for you, it's not as if Windows ever made work for anyone
"i find it pretty difficult to articulate any actual benefits of keeping the system on Linux"
In terms of education, what do the teachers and students require that is not being provided by the current system? Web access, email, course material
"Its a good deal for me as they're kind of stuck paying me to admin the system, but does it really have to be this complex?"
I hadn't realized Linux was the way to go to bilk up the overtime
I'm quite frankly puzzled how a Linux sysadmin with real world programming and admin experience can find IT so complex, personally, once I set up some scripts, the system runs itself, and baring hardware failure, it just runs and runs
"Thats why Windows wins in schools"
They why does MS have to expend so much energy is keeping it out of schools. If most peoples experiences were like yours they would all be flying back to the safe arms of MS, you being a huge Linux geek and all
"My small company has done the very same thing .. there's nothing 'unethical' or 'monopolistic' about it. It's normal business competition"
.. and if you believe that's not 'unethical' you've been whoring too long ...
You mean your company went to other peoples customers and lie about their product and sabotage third party apps
I expect Office to get involved in understanding these speedups
I am hard core about trying to find ways to make our applications boot faster
"what it doesn't say is that the website--and Wissner-Gross-- directly benefits from this kind of research. C02Stats offers clients plans, ranging from $5 a month to $100"
Does he have any corresponding research regarding Live search or the environmental impact of making all those porn DVDs
'One goal of this approach is to separate the legal defence of its intellectual property from its core product business'
Then why not drop the case and focus more fully on your 'core product business'
It's easier to moan on slashdot ..
https://launchpad.net/auto-ndiswrapper
"I think the real issue here is the lack of best practice by the IT people .. to take the necessary steps and precautions to configure things the "right" way, or going with best practices"
...
If you don't mind me saying so, you're talking happy horse.shit. 'Best practice' in most businesses consist of the IT staff continually patching/repairing old hardware, in a misguided attempt by management to save on the IT budget.
"I understand that people have been turned down for budgets on upgrading items, but I also contribute this behavior to superior/supervisor misunderstanding"
It's also difficult to communicate with superiors, when you're not allowed to email anyone. You generally find out about the companies ' vision ' by reading about it in the trade papers. In an episode straight out of Dilbert, I arrive at work on 9:00am Monday to discover we are going to be launching a fashion Web site at 6:00pm. Management are going to have in all the fashion people, photographers, journalists etc.
Only thing is they forgot to tell us about it, so there is no web site to speak of. Someone did leave in a selections of photos, but never told us what for, as management consider IT types too beneath them to actually address them in the first person.
Oh, and btw, none of the IT people are invited to the reception. I guess this is why no one has worked for this company longer that nine months
"You guys are just asking to get bombed by the IRA!"
..
That isn't going to happen since it has since become knowledge that the IRA was being run by the a branch of British security, the Force Research Unit
They mean DELL is the second largest external company to employ people in Ireland ..
"Kohlmann outlined Operation Praline, a sting operation in the U.K. that ultimately uncovered a would-be terrorist network in three countries led by Aabid Khan, a then-19-year-old Briton"
..
"Evan Kohlmann, a U.S. terrorism analyst who advised the prosecution at Khan's trial, said"
"Rizwaan Sabir and Hicham Yezza were reported to the police by their own university and detained for six days last May. Sabir had been studying extremism and had asked Yezza to print out a document for him."
--
PROTHERO
Do you believe this crap, Dascombe?
DASCOMBE
It's not our job to believe it,
Lewis. Our job is to tell the
people --
What good is freedom of expression if there is no freedom of response. So-called democratic states attempt to suppress descent on social networks by painting them as havens for terrorists. It's curious as both the capitalists and the communists are dead scared of people talking to each other, without the moderating influence of some state-run or private-enterprise owned media.
Yoani Sanchez and her blogging comrades are now the targets of the Castro regime's censors--and police.
"The ability to use your favorite program to get a certain task accomplished without having to worry about compatibility problems" Compatibility wasn't a problem until the worlds chief software architect mandated it so. One of the first things computers were designed to do was talk to one another, it's all ones and noughts you know .. :)
.. .. .. .. ..
FUD INJECTION COUNT:
01. Just an excuse to get a Windows discount
02. Linux is communist
03. it's open standards never Open Source
04. it's forced on the end users
05. you can't get work done with 'free' software
"Communist and Socialist nations tend to be able to handle the big changes quicker through mandate while capitalists tend to peel slowly. TO each their own, I for one avoid getting cut in the first place..."
..
A novel and unique critique of dialectical materialism. The only real world experiment in communism collapsed under its own inefficiencies. As I recall, you couldn't even get razor blades in Moscow
I wonder when 'Le Doan Hop' the Minister of Information and Communications, is going to be relieved of his job and trashed in the press.
"I'm sure you'd like to hear from Peter Quinn, formerly CIO of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts"
"I think open standards are much more important than open source software"
Straight out of the MS FUD manual. Like, let then use 'free' software as long as they us our Intellectual Property and Patent dues. When does your shift on slashdot finish ?
"Using the Linux card is a great way to get a better deal from Microsoft"
...
Among the reasons cited were:
to reduce commercial software license fees,
freedom from foreign-owned technology,
greater security,
curbing the number of infections from Windows-based viruses and
to gain technological leadership on platforms relatively free of dominance by large multinational corporations
"IMO, this is not necessarily good. Forcing free software on someone is not going to generate all good comments"
Beats forcing people to use software through the use of MOUs and when was the last time you can provide a citation for, when management consulted people on what software they used?
EDGI is a customer-focused program that is for circumstances (like the one you reference) where an education and/or government customer is going to purchase naked PC'S or PC'S w/Linux ..
.. "
under NO circumstances lose against Linux
"According to the Identity Theft Resource Center, more than 35 million data records were breached in the U.S. in 2008"
Do any of these breaches have anything to do with the underlying Operating System ?