'F' is for the Fear you won't have anymore.
'I' is for the Internet you love to peruse.
'R' is for the redundant mod this post will score.
'E' is for the Explorer you'll no longer use.
and..
'F' is for the Favorite of so many on the Net!
'O' is for the Open Source in "FOSS"!
'X' is for the Xtra plugins you're bound to get.
And that spells "FIREFOX": http://www.firefox.org/Tell your boss!
Are you suggesting that it isn't possible for someone to come up with a really clunky and difficult language? I know I can name a few.
No, we weren't talking about brainf*** or other languages intended as a joke.
Look, I just don't think you have the experience with programming to hold ground, here. All turing-complete languages have input, output, math and logic operators, conditional branching, iterative branching, fundamental data types, user-defined functions, inclusion of pre-written code/modules/headers, and comments. The rest is sugar-icing. To write text out, in BASIC I go "PRINT text$", in C I go "printf("%s\n",text);", in Python I just say "print text" and even in assembly I say "call printf pushl $0" where $0 is where I pushed all the text I wanted printed. Big whoopdehoopdypoopdydoo! There is NO difference in being harder to type one command or another.
You sound just like about 100,000 people I've heard before who learned one language and have embraced it forever and will carry it into the tarpit using blind bigotry as their defense because they reason that their first language was so painful to them, they don't dare learn a second and struggle through that agony again. And actually these people have been had: every language is as difficult to learn as every other, they just made their choice based on a frequency word-count of the want ads in their home town that year. In fact, people whio regard learning anything at all as being any degree of painful at all should not be in programming. You don't live in this business unless you can forget 75% of what you knew five years ago and start over with the same degree of enthusiasm learning all over again.
Take your hand off your dick and pay attention: I'm not even arguing with *you* anymore, so you can quit purring contentedly at all the attention you're getting. I'm talking to new programming students who might stumble by. I'm not bothering to educate you; you're a box of rocks. I'll be ignoring you.
Granted, Emacs is the operating-system in search of a simple editor. But I was comparing it to IDE's such as Glade, or (more to the topic of web development) Nvu, which is a "click-n-build" CSS/HTML page builder. PS These days, show me a text editor that *doesn't* come with extended functionality built in? Even VIM's got macro capabilities with the sed-like commands, right?
We're not being a very careful reader today, are we? "Language does not matter at all" in terms of "HOW EASY" to learn and to use. Use assembly to write kernel, or a C compiler. Use Python to write game. Both easy. Use assembly to write game. Use Python to write kernel or C compiler. Both difficult. Tool not made for purpose used. Use each language where it work best: make any language easy. Apply to HTML, XML, CSS, Javascript...
Yeah, Linux can run on a toaster or an old 486DX. Big fucking deal. I don't think too many companies are planning on running business apps on either of those platforms.
Do you realize how much the environment is choking on throw-away tech every year? I covered this very topic http://techn0manc3r.blogspot.com/2005/12/linux-and -environment.html with links. Yes, it's a huge deal. Count me in with the other who recycles old Windows boxes I find and gets year's further use out of them. More money to donate to FOSS, less waste to the environment.
By the way, when I worked for no less an enterprise than Citigroup incorporated, you couldn't walk two feet in the processing center without tripping over a 486. This was only two years ago.
Unbelievable. All the guy says is what worked for him and he's happy with it, and for this he draws such ire. Maybe he's not replying because it's a waste of time to enlighten a rock.
or does anyone else feel that all the "rapid development" frameworks that are all the rage lately may be harmful to the current crop of new developers?
I steadily advise anybody to run screaming in the opposite direction whenever they are approached by somebody trying to sell them a tool to "magically make all of the inherent difficulty in making computers do awesome thing vanish instantly!" Anybody who can fall for this pap the 100th time they've heard it also thinks there's a $0.02 pill they can drop into a gallon of water to turn it into high-test, there's a special pattern of crystals that you can sleep with to cure you of cancer, and that you really can turn lead into gold if only you build the right-shaped magnetic pyramid around it.
Bulletin: Easy programs are easy to write. Hard programs are hard to write. Language doesn't matter at all. No, I'm not kidding: at all. I've tried all the major languages and quite a few minor ones. There's difference in functionality between one language and another, true. That's because different languages were built to different specifications and purposes: so there are no kernels written in python, no first-person shooters written in assembly, no databases written in POVray, no 3D pictures rendered from SQL. But they are all exactly, precisely, completely as easy/hard as every single other, to ten thousand decimal places.
Development environments should be text editors for your first thousand projects, and then hedge into an IDE for shortcuts - but even in Glade, all it does is write a few lines for you - to make the widgets do anything, you'll *still* have to get into the text file and code it in with the keyboard *anyway*. I've literally timed myself using an IDE vs. writing pure code in Emacs - in every single last case, my time was only a few minutes shorter in the IDE, and that only in certain cases. That's because text editors can cut/paste, and run macros you can code once to make them smack out templates for you.
People who flame/disagree are welcome to do so, but I'm just talking from my experience and observation. Maybe all of our perspectives will change in ten years.
This is a moral decision i (and probably you) will never be called upon to make.
As a matter of fact, you lying bastard, I have made just exactly that choice. I could have 1.3 billion more readers/customers for my blog-ads, but would not put my blogs on MSN in order to do so. They are on Blogger, which is banned in China. I suppose I could praise communism, totalitarian dictatorships, and revoking of all freedoms in exchange for milking the Chinese profit machine, but I'd hate to steal the spotlight from morally bankrupt degenerate worthless slimeballs such as your proud self.
With a meter counting the time between Sony screwings. Like those signs in the office "We have gone 'XX' days without a work-related injury". The flurry is getting overwhealing.
Monday: "Sony releases new patch which installs the fix to the the rootkit-uninstaller's rootkit, but makes user's head explode."
Tuesday: "Sony lawyers suggest compensating angry customers with Milkbones - 2 apiece. The Milkbones are stale and infested with wheat weevils."
Wednesday: "Sony CEO attempts offer of soul to Satan in exchange for way out of this PR nightmare; Satan turns them down, quoted as saying 'If I wanted to work THAT hard for THAT much risk, I woulda stayed with the Big Guy.'"
Thursday: "Warez sites banning anybody found with Sony files on their hard drive. Viruses flee in terror from Sony-infected computers. Pay-porn sites return 401 for Sony-infected machines."
The state of video game journalism is the central tradgedy of my life, too. I lie awake at night moaning over it. It destroyed my marriage. It cost me my job. It drove me to intraveinous drug use. I see children playing and people laughing and think, "Look at them, how could they, HOW COULD THEY, with the state of video game journalism the way it is?!?"
Sorry to be so self-serving, but I have posted a Konqueror babel-fish translation of his most recent blog-city post at http://techn0manc3r.blogspot.com/ my blog, if anybody wants to try reading it (Chinese to English is icky). His meaning does mostly come through, and in places he is quite poignant.
My thanks to Trip-Master Monkey and 28481k for ferreting out the links.
This school must have a pretty bad webserver if simply clicking on refresh brings the server to its knees.
*cough* Windows 98 *cough*
I was thinking the exact same thing, but I get flamed and modded to death every time I say anything these days. Anyway, I thought of Neal Stephenson's anecdote about a room full of servers crashing, and they tracked it down to users were holding the mouse button down too long when selecting from a menu. Single tasking systems...
The Google case: "Google omits results from the government-banned sites if search requests are made through computers connecting to the Internet in China." Not the same thing. They're only dropping results from the searches in China, and if they didn't, they wouldn't be allowed to provide search to China at all. The websites containing the search terms did not disappear from the web - people in other countries can still see them.
The Yahoo case: "Nonetheless, it is reportedly customary for e-mail service and Internet access providers to transmit information to the police about their clients when shown a court order." Again entirely different. I would hope that anyone at any time called on to testify would step forward and tell the truth and not lies. Yahoo was doing it's common civic duty, even though the purposes of the trial were unjust.
The Cisco case: "The Cisco routers sold to China have the ability to block not only the main addresses for websites, but also specific sub-pages while leaving the rest of the site accessible." Yet another different matter. My own computer has the ABILITY to block websites based on content (such as gross pornography on my young children's account) - that's a tool. Big difference how I use it.
Oh, do bring it on! I love how we're trying to malign Microsoft competitors while declaring that Microsoft can do no wrong! How desperate can you get?
Here, Mr. Hate-Freedom-First: Say your town's church has you putting up it's community online newsletter. Somebody from a theocratic country is able to find it online and expresses objection because it supports an "infidel" religion. So we should take down your newsletter and order your home church to cease all communications, based on the laws of this other country?
I love how you people get all red-faced waving your flag and shoot your beefy mouth off about how proud to be an American you are and how against the suppression of liberty you are. Saddam does it: bad Saddam! China does it: bad China! Microsoft does it, and you sweat bullets over your Microsoft stock and 401-K and all of a sudden Microsoft is A-OK, freedom sucks, you're burning the flag, maybe Saddam wasn't such a bad guy after all...
Those of you rushing to Microsoft's defense are doing more damage than good. Alone, this could eventually blow over as an oversight or mistake or a bad judgement call. But when the Internet's discussion is interrupted by a few "bystander" posters who each rush in to flame us all and declare Microsoft innocent, then it's only too obvious that you're the paid "clean-up crew" hired by Microsoft, and that makes the action premeditated.
censorship is deleting parts of a work. Effectively it steals the authors work for the censors' ends.
With a struggling, beleaguered underdog facing so many hardships as Microsoft is, it's certainly heroic of you to come to their defense. However: MSN still hosts other blogs that are OK with China. A blog which China doesn't like is taken down. The Blogoshpere has been censored.
Thought I'd call your bluff and actually READ the links you posted, something I'm sure you never dreamed anybody would actually do.
The Google case: "Google omits results from the government-banned sites if search requests are made through computers connecting to the Internet in China." Not the same thing. They're only dropping results from the searches in China, and if they didn't, they wouldn't be allowed to provide search to China at all. The websites containing the search terms did not disappear from the web - people in other countries can still see them.
The Yahoo case: "Nonetheless, it is reportedly customary for e-mail service and Internet access providers to transmit information to the police about their clients when shown a court order." Again entirely different. I would hope that anyone at any time called on to testify would step forward and tell the truth and not lies. Yahoo was doing it's common civic duty, even though the purposes of the trial were unjust.
The Cisco case: "The Cisco routers sold to China have the ability to block not only the main addresses for websites, but also specific sub-pages while leaving the rest of the site accessible." Yet another different matter. My own computer has the ABILITY to block websites based on content (such as gross pornography on my young children's account) - that's a tool. Big difference how I use it.
You have in fact slinged mud on three innocent companies while defending the guilty one you invested in. I hope they paid you enough!
Do you believe that Microsoft and MSN should obey the law and avoid illegal practices? If so, doesn't that apply just as much in China as in America?
As the article points out, the blog physically resides on American soil. So Chinese law doesn't enter into it. Would you, personally, like to be held accountable by every law of every nation on Earth at the same time? Including theocracies, dictatorships, and socialist republics? And since when does M$ give a thin damn about American law (anti-trust, for instance), else it would obey it a little more carefully?
How did you forge that 4-digit ID? Nobody that old is that dense. Give it back, thief!
Nevertheless, regardless, and bethatasitmay, I was siding with the person who expressed the opinion which got modded flamebait. Um, yes, bork bork, I know that an air-traffic-control system would make a poor desktop OS, along with other mission-critical applications such as power-plant-control systems at the plant I used to work at. But, yeah, surely *any* programmer making a desktop OS would at least have a thing or two to learn from the mere *reading* of the specifications from such projects, and perhaps it might even inspire them to make their desktop a more hardy place, maybe even through porting an idea inspired by the mission-critical system, leading to some of that innovation we're all hoping for (even us non-Winodws-users) in Vista.
Why do posts that start with "You're missing the point!!!" always start out in left field and head for the parking lot?
Are they even a business? It seems like this lawsuit has dragged on since the day I was born (1969). Yet, I never recall seeing an advertisement for an SCO product, nor seeing an SCO product on the shelf to buy, nor seeing anything with an SCO trademark used at any of the businesses I ever worked at. Where does the money come from for the lawyers? Don't these guys, y'know, WORK?
Slashdot Mirror
'F' is for the Fear you won't have anymore.
'I' is for the Internet you love to peruse.
'R' is for the redundant mod this post will score.
'E' is for the Explorer you'll no longer use.
and..
'F' is for the Favorite of so many on the Net!
'O' is for the Open Source in "FOSS"!
'X' is for the Xtra plugins you're bound to get.
And that spells "FIREFOX": http://www.firefox.org/Tell your boss!
*wink* Surprise, I love both vi and emacs! Trump card...
No, we weren't talking about brainf*** or other languages intended as a joke.
Look, I just don't think you have the experience with programming to hold ground, here. All turing-complete languages have input, output, math and logic operators, conditional branching, iterative branching, fundamental data types, user-defined functions, inclusion of pre-written code/modules/headers, and comments. The rest is sugar-icing. To write text out, in BASIC I go "PRINT text$", in C I go "printf("%s\n",text);", in Python I just say "print text" and even in assembly I say "call printf pushl $0" where $0 is where I pushed all the text I wanted printed. Big whoopdehoopdypoopdydoo! There is NO difference in being harder to type one command or another.
You sound just like about 100,000 people I've heard before who learned one language and have embraced it forever and will carry it into the tarpit using blind bigotry as their defense because they reason that their first language was so painful to them, they don't dare learn a second and struggle through that agony again. And actually these people have been had: every language is as difficult to learn as every other, they just made their choice based on a frequency word-count of the want ads in their home town that year. In fact, people whio regard learning anything at all as being any degree of painful at all should not be in programming. You don't live in this business unless you can forget 75% of what you knew five years ago and start over with the same degree of enthusiasm learning all over again.
Take your hand off your dick and pay attention: I'm not even arguing with *you* anymore, so you can quit purring contentedly at all the attention you're getting. I'm talking to new programming students who might stumble by. I'm not bothering to educate you; you're a box of rocks. I'll be ignoring you.
Granted, Emacs is the operating-system in search of a simple editor. But I was comparing it to IDE's such as Glade, or (more to the topic of web development) Nvu, which is a "click-n-build" CSS/HTML page builder. PS These days, show me a text editor that *doesn't* come with extended functionality built in? Even VIM's got macro capabilities with the sed-like commands, right?
We're not being a very careful reader today, are we? "Language does not matter at all" in terms of "HOW EASY" to learn and to use. Use assembly to write kernel, or a C compiler. Use Python to write game. Both easy. Use assembly to write game. Use Python to write kernel or C compiler. Both difficult. Tool not made for purpose used. Use each language where it work best: make any language easy. Apply to HTML, XML, CSS, Javascript...
Do you realize how much the environment is choking on throw-away tech every year? I covered this very topic http://techn0manc3r.blogspot.com/2005/12/linux-and -environment.html with links. Yes, it's a huge deal. Count me in with the other who recycles old Windows boxes I find and gets year's further use out of them. More money to donate to FOSS, less waste to the environment.
By the way, when I worked for no less an enterprise than Citigroup incorporated, you couldn't walk two feet in the processing center without tripping over a 486. This was only two years ago.
Unbelievable. All the guy says is what worked for him and he's happy with it, and for this he draws such ire. Maybe he's not replying because it's a waste of time to enlighten a rock.
I steadily advise anybody to run screaming in the opposite direction whenever they are approached by somebody trying to sell them a tool to "magically make all of the inherent difficulty in making computers do awesome thing vanish instantly!" Anybody who can fall for this pap the 100th time they've heard it also thinks there's a $0.02 pill they can drop into a gallon of water to turn it into high-test, there's a special pattern of crystals that you can sleep with to cure you of cancer, and that you really can turn lead into gold if only you build the right-shaped magnetic pyramid around it.
Bulletin: Easy programs are easy to write. Hard programs are hard to write. Language doesn't matter at all. No, I'm not kidding: at all. I've tried all the major languages and quite a few minor ones. There's difference in functionality between one language and another, true. That's because different languages were built to different specifications and purposes: so there are no kernels written in python, no first-person shooters written in assembly, no databases written in POVray, no 3D pictures rendered from SQL. But they are all exactly, precisely, completely as easy/hard as every single other, to ten thousand decimal places.
Development environments should be text editors for your first thousand projects, and then hedge into an IDE for shortcuts - but even in Glade, all it does is write a few lines for you - to make the widgets do anything, you'll *still* have to get into the text file and code it in with the keyboard *anyway*. I've literally timed myself using an IDE vs. writing pure code in Emacs - in every single last case, my time was only a few minutes shorter in the IDE, and that only in certain cases. That's because text editors can cut/paste, and run macros you can code once to make them smack out templates for you.
People who flame/disagree are welcome to do so, but I'm just talking from my experience and observation. Maybe all of our perspectives will change in ten years.
As a matter of fact, you lying bastard, I have made just exactly that choice. I could have 1.3 billion more readers/customers for my blog-ads, but would not put my blogs on MSN in order to do so. They are on Blogger, which is banned in China. I suppose I could praise communism, totalitarian dictatorships, and revoking of all freedoms in exchange for milking the Chinese profit machine, but I'd hate to steal the spotlight from morally bankrupt degenerate worthless slimeballs such as your proud self.
Monday: "Sony releases new patch which installs the fix to the the rootkit-uninstaller's rootkit, but makes user's head explode."
Tuesday: "Sony lawyers suggest compensating angry customers with Milkbones - 2 apiece. The Milkbones are stale and infested with wheat weevils."
Wednesday: "Sony CEO attempts offer of soul to Satan in exchange for way out of this PR nightmare; Satan turns them down, quoted as saying 'If I wanted to work THAT hard for THAT much risk, I woulda stayed with the Big Guy.'"
Thursday: "Warez sites banning anybody found with Sony files on their hard drive. Viruses flee in terror from Sony-infected computers. Pay-porn sites return 401 for Sony-infected machines."
The state of video game journalism is the central tradgedy of my life, too. I lie awake at night moaning over it. It destroyed my marriage. It cost me my job. It drove me to intraveinous drug use. I see children playing and people laughing and think, "Look at them, how could they, HOW COULD THEY, with the state of video game journalism the way it is?!?"
Or as Tommy Lee Jones said in Men In Black #1 (which I own on video), "I guess I'll have to buy the White Album again."
My thanks to Trip-Master Monkey and 28481k for ferreting out the links.
*cough* Windows 98 *cough*
I was thinking the exact same thing, but I get flamed and modded to death every time I say anything these days. Anyway, I thought of Neal Stephenson's anecdote about a room full of servers crashing, and they tracked it down to users were holding the mouse button down too long when selecting from a menu. Single tasking systems...
The Yahoo case: "Nonetheless, it is reportedly customary for e-mail service and Internet access providers to transmit information to the police about their clients when shown a court order." Again entirely different. I would hope that anyone at any time called on to testify would step forward and tell the truth and not lies. Yahoo was doing it's common civic duty, even though the purposes of the trial were unjust.
The Cisco case: "The Cisco routers sold to China have the ability to block not only the main addresses for websites, but also specific sub-pages while leaving the rest of the site accessible." Yet another different matter. My own computer has the ABILITY to block websites based on content (such as gross pornography on my young children's account) - that's a tool. Big difference how I use it.
Oh, do bring it on! I love how we're trying to malign Microsoft competitors while declaring that Microsoft can do no wrong! How desperate can you get?
I love how you people get all red-faced waving your flag and shoot your beefy mouth off about how proud to be an American you are and how against the suppression of liberty you are. Saddam does it: bad Saddam! China does it: bad China! Microsoft does it, and you sweat bullets over your Microsoft stock and 401-K and all of a sudden Microsoft is A-OK, freedom sucks, you're burning the flag, maybe Saddam wasn't such a bad guy after all...
Those of you rushing to Microsoft's defense are doing more damage than good. Alone, this could eventually blow over as an oversight or mistake or a bad judgement call. But when the Internet's discussion is interrupted by a few "bystander" posters who each rush in to flame us all and declare Microsoft innocent, then it's only too obvious that you're the paid "clean-up crew" hired by Microsoft, and that makes the action premeditated.
With a struggling, beleaguered underdog facing so many hardships as Microsoft is, it's certainly heroic of you to come to their defense. However: MSN still hosts other blogs that are OK with China. A blog which China doesn't like is taken down. The Blogoshpere has been censored.
The Google case: "Google omits results from the government-banned sites if search requests are made through computers connecting to the Internet in China." Not the same thing. They're only dropping results from the searches in China, and if they didn't, they wouldn't be allowed to provide search to China at all. The websites containing the search terms did not disappear from the web - people in other countries can still see them.
The Yahoo case: "Nonetheless, it is reportedly customary for e-mail service and Internet access providers to transmit information to the police about their clients when shown a court order." Again entirely different. I would hope that anyone at any time called on to testify would step forward and tell the truth and not lies. Yahoo was doing it's common civic duty, even though the purposes of the trial were unjust.
The Cisco case: "The Cisco routers sold to China have the ability to block not only the main addresses for websites, but also specific sub-pages while leaving the rest of the site accessible." Yet another different matter. My own computer has the ABILITY to block websites based on content (such as gross pornography on my young children's account) - that's a tool. Big difference how I use it.
You have in fact slinged mud on three innocent companies while defending the guilty one you invested in. I hope they paid you enough!
As the article points out, the blog physically resides on American soil. So Chinese law doesn't enter into it. Would you, personally, like to be held accountable by every law of every nation on Earth at the same time? Including theocracies, dictatorships, and socialist republics? And since when does M$ give a thin damn about American law (anti-trust, for instance), else it would obey it a little more carefully?
How did you forge that 4-digit ID? Nobody that old is that dense. Give it back, thief!
Nevertheless, regardless, and bethatasitmay, I was siding with the person who expressed the opinion which got modded flamebait. Um, yes, bork bork, I know that an air-traffic-control system would make a poor desktop OS, along with other mission-critical applications such as power-plant-control systems at the plant I used to work at. But, yeah, surely *any* programmer making a desktop OS would at least have a thing or two to learn from the mere *reading* of the specifications from such projects, and perhaps it might even inspire them to make their desktop a more hardy place, maybe even through porting an idea inspired by the mission-critical system, leading to some of that innovation we're all hoping for (even us non-Winodws-users) in Vista.
Why do posts that start with "You're missing the point!!!" always start out in left field and head for the parking lot?
Please mod me down flamebait, too. It is unfair of me to not recieve the same consequence for holding the same opinion.
Are they even a business? It seems like this lawsuit has dragged on since the day I was born (1969). Yet, I never recall seeing an advertisement for an SCO product, nor seeing an SCO product on the shelf to buy, nor seeing anything with an SCO trademark used at any of the businesses I ever worked at. Where does the money come from for the lawyers? Don't these guys, y'know, WORK?
seems topical enough: http://philip.greenspun.com/bg/ "How to become as rich as Bill Gates."
Nahhh, it CAN'T be that few! I could swear I've been beaten up by more than that during riots alone.