Hee hee, you forgot to expand on the part where they jump in cars and chase each other until they crash and then jump onto jet skis and chase each other until *they* crash, and then switch to helicopters, and skateboards, and submarines, and choppers, and hang-gliders, and the Mellineum Falcon and a Klingon warbird, and then pogo-sticks....
Relieved to find out I wasn't the only one dragged into a movie theater by my SO to see it. My main complaint about the movie was that I couldn't get a good seat; they all faced foreward.
C'mon, it's not *that* hard. I know that I'm smarter when I use technology than when I'm not, because I use it to extend my mind beyond it's natural limitations. But if computers are nothing to you but an entertainmnet device, like television, then they'll have no enhancing effects.
When I started to notice that the information age also facilitated the propagation of urban legends and glurge as well as physics papers and philisophical debates, I put it this way: Computers are just a magnifying glass applied to the intellect. If that intellect is rotten, then the computer magnifies the rottenness a thousand-fold. Ergo, Garbage in, Garbage out.
Being a huge Emacs fan, I would probably have had fun in this discussion. But after the flamewar kicking Linux's ass for not being Microsoft last week, and the savages ravaging the Gimp for not being Photoshop this week, I really didn't have the heart to come in here and see all the pea-brains buggering Emacs because it isn't Word Perfect. Loud noises still have me diving for cover.
I will say, that Emacs (and Vi) are like Zen - you either get them or you don't. Yeah, and I like them both, for they are Two Different Programs, and vi is good for banging out the World's Fastest Edit from the command-line, and Emacs (formerly criticized for it's bloat, but on today's hardware and environment, one of the lightest running processes when considering all it can do), is good for playing with the one program that comes the closest to being a full operating system in itself.
I think Emacs is single-handedly keeping the Lisp language alive. With the extensions for it that keep popping up, and the many reincarnations of it in different environments, it is feasible to ask: Will Emacs go on expanding forever, like a Big Bang Universe?
Can't help it. Have a penis. Makes me stupid. Go plot your overthrow of the 50% of the human race with the Y chromosome. We men are evil, remember? Bugga, bugga!
Great, all this time arguing with a schizophrenic...
OK, direct quote from the end of your last post:
criticism of their projects' shortcomings.
Which was effectively rebutted by:
BECAUSE THE PROGRAM IS LICENSED FREE OF CHARGE, THERE IS NO WARRANTY FOR THE PROGRAM, TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW. EXCEPT WHEN OTHERWISE STATED IN WRITING THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND/OR OTHER PARTIES PROVIDE THE PROGRAM "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE PROGRAM IS WITH YOU. SHOULD THE PROGRAM PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE COST OF ALL NECESSARY SERVICING, REPAIR OR CORRECTION.
Your whole *attitude* spits on GNU, the GPL, Linux, and all that is holy. And now I know why: your knee-jerk response to the suggestion (which I indicated has no bearing to fruitition, for the simple reason that it would be immoral) that some people should be excluded (for the same reason you exclude thieves and vandals from your house) was to assume I was talking about "kick the girls out and keep it a boy's club!". Like there's *never* *been* a female geek?
And next I suppose you're black, gay, poor, old, and an atheist; which also opens me to attack on the grounds that I'm racist, homophobic, elitist, ageist, and a religious fanatic. Thank you, this explains a lot. Whatever you were reading into my comments, you're reading one thing and seeing something else.
No harm done. Have a nice life. And, uh, wish there was hope for you, but if you see the world through sexist-colored-glasses, then sexism will be all that you see. But try to have a nice life, anyway.
People espousing exclusionary attitudes, like yours, would just as soon have us stay back in those days just so you can feel like you belong to a secret club. Well, that's not what OSS is about. It's about bringing a better computing world to everyone, not just you.
Wow, what a spin 'round from the first time!
Hey, don't get me wrong, I know I'm going full steam off the deep end on this issue. I've gone way below my usual level. And I feel justified because: I'm sick and tired of all the Linux-bashing. It would be justified if Linux was a mega-corporation holding you in economic hostage. It would be justified if the Gimp came with a big, red stamp: "GUARANTEED to meet your every graphics need, especially to satisfy your craving for a Free-Photoshop." It would be justified if you had to pay even the lordly sum of $0.01 for it.
But isn't it free? Isn't it open source, so you can change what you don't like? Isn't it the product of somebody else's time and sweat? Doesn't the source file have the standard disclaimer in the front of it:
BECAUSE THE PROGRAM IS LICENSED FREE OF CHARGE, THERE IS NO WARRANTY FOR THE PROGRAM, TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW. EXCEPT WHEN OTHERWISE STATED IN WRITING THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND/OR OTHER PARTIES PROVIDE THE PROGRAM "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE PROGRAM IS WITH YOU. SHOULD THE PROGRAM PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE COST OF ALL NECESSARY SERVICING, REPAIR OR CORRECTION.
? Since you claim to have been part of Free Software since Richard Stallman got frustrated trying to fix that copier, you never took a gander at this? Or can I safely assume, based on your spitting on GNU/Linux one minute and declaring that you were there when the first kernel was hacked the next, that your whole story's full of hooey?
Argue 'til you turn blue, I don't care. There it is from GNU itself: "We never promised you nirvana in a file. If it breaks, you get to keep both pieces."
Now go watch TV or something. Hey, there's probably a football game on!
Straight to the point. But never mind simple logic, you arrogant fool, and go ahead with your plan: tell me, without contributing a shred of work yourself, how you are going to convince the people doing the work who do it to please themselves and the needs of their job/task/solution to drop all that and code just to please you instead? If you want Photoshop, you know where to find it. If you want Gimp, use it. If Gimp is too limited, extend it with the plug-in system. If it just won't do, go code something else. None else but a FOOL would believe that their options were any more than that.
On a personal note, my main regret is that we can't restrict the access to Open Source software to exclude you people who want to "write a book detailing the inadequacies of Gimp"...because shit like you isn't fucking WORTHY!
The Mandriva machine is not online. apt-get-type systems are set up to be online. Without being online, apt-get-type package install systems are a huge pain.
My Slackware box (my personal workstation) is not online either, but it comes out of the box with support for *everything*, from X-library C++ and SDL libraries to Tcl/tk Wish, Clisp, full Python and Perl, etc. Slackware is aimed more at the hacker/developer. Mandriva is aimed more at the casual user, I think is the way to put it.
All I said was it's an "irritation", not a full-blown flaw. There's a difference between that and condemning an OS as worthless.
What I'm talking about is unzip/untar tarball, cd directory, read README & INSTALL, type./configure, make, make install, get errors due to failed dependencies: library missing, header file not found, thisfunction.so MIA. I've gotten this reaction from Mandrivites before. Don't google-eye at me in shock and act like you've never heard of a failed compile before.
"Download the proper packages" and I grow weary of repeating over and over: not EVERY computer in the world is online. Some of us have multiple machines in the household. Have you ever tried running a machine with an apt-get-type system that's not online? It's such a hassle that for all intents and purposes it's impossible. If you've never done this, take somebody's word for it. There's a reason I burn three disks...I try to get as much operating system on there as I can.
Anyway, I'm not knocking Mandriva at all. It has other things that it does very well. It just saved my butt yesterday, by being the only system in the house with an old enough Python install that Blender's Python console would play nice with it, which I'm trying to use to cross-port meshes between Blender and POVray. Mandriva comes with an awesome game package, which the kids love.
There is no Linux distro in the world, without both flaws and perfections.
Well, I'm not exactly going to cheerlead for Mandriva (wake me when you stomp on Slackware's turf!), but it *did* practically install itself on my desktop PC while I took a nap, and recognized every stick of hardware without my having to tweak a *single* *line* of text file *anywhere* (Mandriva 10.1, we're talking). Given, this wasn't a particularly challenging box.
I think much of the problem with Mandriva stems from complete lack of programming support; don't even think of asking Mandriva to do something productive with a source tarball! C libraries, what are those? Programming languages? We grow our binaries on trees!
I've said this about distros like Mandriva and Ubuntu since forever: I refer to them collectively not as Linux, but as "I-Can't-Believe-It's-Not-Windows!(TM)" So here we are, we broke our necks to be more like Windows than Windows is in order to draw market share from Windows, and now what? We have a couple of sub-standard distros on our hands, Windows users can look at the shoddiest of our work and turn their nose up at it and go back to Windows, and we give it away for free, so we would have gained little even if we'd won.
Experience has taught me that this will decrease the mob frenzy not a tad.
I'm sure others have, but I'll add: you see that funny picture of Bill Gates dressed up as a "Borg" that accompanies most Windows stories? That's from "Star Trek, the Next Generation". It's not a joke. In the US, you can damn near get arrested for admitting you use Linux in public. Kind of like being gay, nothing wrong with it, but fat white rich monotheist guys don't like it, so PERSECUTE!
There it is again: Linux needs a cloak mode. It already has a Windows emulator. Now to go with it, a set of patches to drop down a binary "Windows disguise" to the outside world so it can tell the buttinsky server, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm Windows, now show me the page!"
Highly called for in these days of OS discrimination. And it'd be just like smart-aleck Linux developers to pull that off!
No, it's the beginnng of a new big pain in the ass for programmers. OK, everybody, let's kick the classic math functions out of our programming languages and redefine them, just because Dr. Wildburger says so.
C'mon, it'll be easy as pi! (That was my math joke. Is pi taken, yet?)
Incidentally, I downloaded Mandriva disks 1,2, &3 from LinusISO.org and burned 'em to disk and it's running on one of my computers like any other free distro.
What irritates *me* about Mandriva is the complete lack of compiler/C library support. Don't even think of getting a source tarball and doing anything meaningful with it if you're running Mandriva. But the games rock, and it saved my butt today (by running the only Python version that'd be compatible with Blender's script tools), and it installed itself while I took a nap, so I love Mandriva anyway.
I don't mean this to troll, but why does Linux have to dethrone desktop Windows to be considered successful as an operating system? Why can't it just live happily as a rock-solid server OS with a desktop component that some advanced users use?
GOD, finally! Somebody else said it, too!
Yeah, some of us geeks are happier being "advanced users" with our advanced system that we don't have to dumb down ^-99999.111 IQ points so that Joe Sixpack likes it. Joe Sixpack isn't gonna do anything but surf the web and play games anyway, I was never in a hurry to convert him to begin with.
I want to see my mom and my wife ported to Linux so I can stop dual booting my machine and only have to keep up the non-profit tech support for one OS.
I used to have that problem. Then I said to myself, "Slowly quit being so good at solving Microsoft problems and keep solving Linux problems!" The problem went away a few months later!
would probably be able to write a book about what the gimp is lacking
Nah, I can sum it up in a paragraph...Gimp is lacking the same thing in comparison to Photoshop that Bash is to DOS, Emacs and vi are to Microsoft word, Linux is to Microsoft, Linus Torvalds is to Bill Gates, yada yada yada: it isn't in your tiny little comfort zone.
This isn't touching where I'm coming from. Look at it from my side of the fence. I love Gimp just like it is. I don't care if everybody else never uses it, as long as it's there for me. So here I am all these years having my private party, when suddenly, the whole world discovers it at once. Here come stampedes of Windows users from over the hill out of nowhere to grab my beer, sip it, declare it unfit to their tastes, so they piss in it to improve the flavor for themselves...ruining it for me. Sound like a familiar story? Why do you think geeks went off and wrote Linux in the first place? What do you think, you think we'll embrace Gimp anymore after it's been dumbed down to your level? No, we'll do like we did ten thousand times before and go make our own new toy, and be happy with it for a little while until the herd comes stampeding over the hill again.
You want functionality that's lacking in Gimp? Have you heard of plug-ins? GTK? Script-Fu? Why do you think tools like this are provided to the end user? Where do you think software comes from? Do you think the Fairy Goddamn Godmother drops it under the freaking mistletoe?
Write your own or keep freeloading off of those of us who *DO* write our own, while you keep bitching all the way about how rotten it all is. Just don't expect the second option to win you lots of friends.
Sure, the gimp is fine for the 'resize the pic for the web and maybe correct some red eye' crowd
I think the images posted to my blog alone go beyond "resize the pic and correct some red-eye". Dozens of professional sites exist that use Gimp, POVray, and Blender in concert (that's the nice thing about open file formats!). And then remember http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/27/ 1551250&from=rss this article? Pixar switched to Linux, I suppose they don't know squat about graphics, huh?
You know how, whether in Microsoft or in Linux, you copy 'n' paste by highlighting the text to be copied, pressing Control-C, putting the cursor at the insertion point and hitting Control-V, right? Well, stop and think about it for a minute: What's So Intuitive about Control-V ??? Control-V means "paste"?
Know why "Control-V" makes sense to you? Because you're used to it!
Slashdot Mirror
Relieved to find out I wasn't the only one dragged into a movie theater by my SO to see it. My main complaint about the movie was that I couldn't get a good seat; they all faced foreward.
When I started to notice that the information age also facilitated the propagation of urban legends and glurge as well as physics papers and philisophical debates, I put it this way: Computers are just a magnifying glass applied to the intellect. If that intellect is rotten, then the computer magnifies the rottenness a thousand-fold. Ergo, Garbage in, Garbage out.
Break time...
I will say, that Emacs (and Vi) are like Zen - you either get them or you don't. Yeah, and I like them both, for they are Two Different Programs, and vi is good for banging out the World's Fastest Edit from the command-line, and Emacs (formerly criticized for it's bloat, but on today's hardware and environment, one of the lightest running processes when considering all it can do), is good for playing with the one program that comes the closest to being a full operating system in itself.
I think Emacs is single-handedly keeping the Lisp language alive. With the extensions for it that keep popping up, and the many reincarnations of it in different environments, it is feasible to ask: Will Emacs go on expanding forever, like a Big Bang Universe?
Can't help it. Have a penis. Makes me stupid. Go plot your overthrow of the 50% of the human race with the Y chromosome. We men are evil, remember? Bugga, bugga!
OK, direct quote from the end of your last post: criticism of their projects' shortcomings.
Which was effectively rebutted by:
Your whole *attitude* spits on GNU, the GPL, Linux, and all that is holy. And now I know why: your knee-jerk response to the suggestion (which I indicated has no bearing to fruitition, for the simple reason that it would be immoral) that some people should be excluded (for the same reason you exclude thieves and vandals from your house) was to assume I was talking about "kick the girls out and keep it a boy's club!". Like there's *never* *been* a female geek?
And next I suppose you're black, gay, poor, old, and an atheist; which also opens me to attack on the grounds that I'm racist, homophobic, elitist, ageist, and a religious fanatic. Thank you, this explains a lot. Whatever you were reading into my comments, you're reading one thing and seeing something else.
No harm done. Have a nice life. And, uh, wish there was hope for you, but if you see the world through sexist-colored-glasses, then sexism will be all that you see. But try to have a nice life, anyway.
Wow, what a spin 'round from the first time!
Hey, don't get me wrong, I know I'm going full steam off the deep end on this issue. I've gone way below my usual level. And I feel justified because: I'm sick and tired of all the Linux-bashing. It would be justified if Linux was a mega-corporation holding you in economic hostage. It would be justified if the Gimp came with a big, red stamp: "GUARANTEED to meet your every graphics need, especially to satisfy your craving for a Free-Photoshop." It would be justified if you had to pay even the lordly sum of $0.01 for it.
But isn't it free? Isn't it open source, so you can change what you don't like? Isn't it the product of somebody else's time and sweat? Doesn't the source file have the standard disclaimer in the front of it:
? Since you claim to have been part of Free Software since Richard Stallman got frustrated trying to fix that copier, you never took a gander at this? Or can I safely assume, based on your spitting on GNU/Linux one minute and declaring that you were there when the first kernel was hacked the next, that your whole story's full of hooey?Argue 'til you turn blue, I don't care. There it is from GNU itself: "We never promised you nirvana in a file. If it breaks, you get to keep both pieces."
Now go watch TV or something. Hey, there's probably a football game on!
Straight to the point. But never mind simple logic, you arrogant fool, and go ahead with your plan: tell me, without contributing a shred of work yourself, how you are going to convince the people doing the work who do it to please themselves and the needs of their job/task/solution to drop all that and code just to please you instead? If you want Photoshop, you know where to find it. If you want Gimp, use it. If Gimp is too limited, extend it with the plug-in system. If it just won't do, go code something else. None else but a FOOL would believe that their options were any more than that.
On a personal note, my main regret is that we can't restrict the access to Open Source software to exclude you people who want to "write a book detailing the inadequacies of Gimp"...because shit like you isn't fucking WORTHY!
A mantra if I ever heard one. Amen!
My Slackware box (my personal workstation) is not online either, but it comes out of the box with support for *everything*, from X-library C++ and SDL libraries to Tcl/tk Wish, Clisp, full Python and Perl, etc. Slackware is aimed more at the hacker/developer. Mandriva is aimed more at the casual user, I think is the way to put it.
All I said was it's an "irritation", not a full-blown flaw. There's a difference between that and condemning an OS as worthless.
What I'm talking about is unzip/untar tarball, cd directory, read README & INSTALL, type ./configure, make, make install, get errors due to failed dependencies: library missing, header file not found, thisfunction.so MIA. I've gotten this reaction from Mandrivites before. Don't google-eye at me in shock and act like you've never heard of a failed compile before.
"Download the proper packages" and I grow weary of repeating over and over: not EVERY computer in the world is online. Some of us have multiple machines in the household. Have you ever tried running a machine with an apt-get-type system that's not online? It's such a hassle that for all intents and purposes it's impossible. If you've never done this, take somebody's word for it. There's a reason I burn three disks...I try to get as much operating system on there as I can.
Anyway, I'm not knocking Mandriva at all. It has other things that it does very well. It just saved my butt yesterday, by being the only system in the house with an old enough Python install that Blender's Python console would play nice with it, which I'm trying to use to cross-port meshes between Blender and POVray. Mandriva comes with an awesome game package, which the kids love.
There is no Linux distro in the world, without both flaws and perfections.
Congratulations. You have just shocked me with your complete and utter brass gall to say such shit.
I think much of the problem with Mandriva stems from complete lack of programming support; don't even think of asking Mandriva to do something productive with a source tarball! C libraries, what are those? Programming languages? We grow our binaries on trees!
I've said this about distros like Mandriva and Ubuntu since forever: I refer to them collectively not as Linux, but as "I-Can't-Believe-It's-Not-Windows!(TM)" So here we are, we broke our necks to be more like Windows than Windows is in order to draw market share from Windows, and now what? We have a couple of sub-standard distros on our hands, Windows users can look at the shoddiest of our work and turn their nose up at it and go back to Windows, and we give it away for free, so we would have gained little even if we'd won.
Experience has taught me that this will decrease the mob frenzy not a tad.
You don't understand...I want to be stereotyped; I want to be classified!
I'm sure others have, but I'll add: you see that funny picture of Bill Gates dressed up as a "Borg" that accompanies most Windows stories? That's from "Star Trek, the Next Generation". It's not a joke. In the US, you can damn near get arrested for admitting you use Linux in public. Kind of like being gay, nothing wrong with it, but fat white rich monotheist guys don't like it, so PERSECUTE!
There it is again: Linux needs a cloak mode. It already has a Windows emulator. Now to go with it, a set of patches to drop down a binary "Windows disguise" to the outside world so it can tell the buttinsky server, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm Windows, now show me the page!"
Highly called for in these days of OS discrimination. And it'd be just like smart-aleck Linux developers to pull that off!
C'mon, it'll be easy as pi! (That was my math joke. Is pi taken, yet?)
What irritates *me* about Mandriva is the complete lack of compiler/C library support. Don't even think of getting a source tarball and doing anything meaningful with it if you're running Mandriva. But the games rock, and it saved my butt today (by running the only Python version that'd be compatible with Blender's script tools), and it installed itself while I took a nap, so I love Mandriva anyway.
GOD, finally! Somebody else said it, too!
Yeah, some of us geeks are happier being "advanced users" with our advanced system that we don't have to dumb down ^-99999.111 IQ points so that Joe Sixpack likes it. Joe Sixpack isn't gonna do anything but surf the web and play games anyway, I was never in a hurry to convert him to begin with.
The world came to an end! Why didn't somebody wake me? And send Satan a snow-shovel!
I used to have that problem. Then I said to myself, "Slowly quit being so good at solving Microsoft problems and keep solving Linux problems!" The problem went away a few months later!
Nah, I can sum it up in a paragraph...Gimp is lacking the same thing in comparison to Photoshop that Bash is to DOS, Emacs and vi are to Microsoft word, Linux is to Microsoft, Linus Torvalds is to Bill Gates, yada yada yada: it isn't in your tiny little comfort zone.
This isn't touching where I'm coming from. Look at it from my side of the fence. I love Gimp just like it is. I don't care if everybody else never uses it, as long as it's there for me. So here I am all these years having my private party, when suddenly, the whole world discovers it at once. Here come stampedes of Windows users from over the hill out of nowhere to grab my beer, sip it, declare it unfit to their tastes, so they piss in it to improve the flavor for themselves...ruining it for me. Sound like a familiar story? Why do you think geeks went off and wrote Linux in the first place? What do you think, you think we'll embrace Gimp anymore after it's been dumbed down to your level? No, we'll do like we did ten thousand times before and go make our own new toy, and be happy with it for a little while until the herd comes stampeding over the hill again.
You want functionality that's lacking in Gimp? Have you heard of plug-ins? GTK? Script-Fu? Why do you think tools like this are provided to the end user? Where do you think software comes from? Do you think the Fairy Goddamn Godmother drops it under the freaking mistletoe?
Write your own or keep freeloading off of those of us who *DO* write our own, while you keep bitching all the way about how rotten it all is. Just don't expect the second option to win you lots of friends.
*sigh*
Yeah...yeah..yeah (glancing at watch) move along...next?
The Slurpee-cooled CPU case mod.
I think the images posted to my blog alone go beyond "resize the pic and correct some red-eye". Dozens of professional sites exist that use Gimp, POVray, and Blender in concert (that's the nice thing about open file formats!). And then remember http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/27/ 1551250&from=rss this article? Pixar switched to Linux, I suppose they don't know squat about graphics, huh?
You know how, whether in Microsoft or in Linux, you copy 'n' paste by highlighting the text to be copied, pressing Control-C, putting the cursor at the insertion point and hitting Control-V, right? Well, stop and think about it for a minute: What's So Intuitive about Control-V ??? Control-V means "paste"?
Know why "Control-V" makes sense to you? Because you're used to it!