Practical, pragmatic decisions like using Java are not a problem for Open Source.
Maybe so but the end result is no longer Open because it depends on closed libraries/REs. And OSS must not believe that software developed as open source is technologically superior if they're willing to give up access and control of the source code so easily.
Free Software, on the other hand, has a very precise goal which is to make all software in the system open and free. And there are very real legal and financial reasons they want to accomplish this, aside from the obvious technical advantages of having access to code. The FSF does not think any non-free software is detrimental to the community, but rather insists on calling it what it is, not Free. OpenOffice might not be proprietary and closed source yet, but it is not Free if it requires Sun's JRE to be fully functional. Some components are Free and licensed appropriately for approval by the FSF, but not all. So the community will most likely delete the infringing components and replace them with more open source code and move on. In a sense saying, "Thanks, but no thanks" to Sun.
but it is not a catastrophe for the OO.org team to choose the Open Source route.
No this choice is not a catastrophe. But a competing fork built on pure F/OSS software would be. They would lose more community support and have to work harder to compete. That's a one-two punch from the Free Software community, if it happens. Its like trying to make a profit while your market is shrinking and competition is driving down prices (think AOL).
And, as always, we wish them luck. They're going to need it.
We need to build support. You don't do that by quieting the mob. You got to get the message out. Nothing else will help you get something done, assuming you even know what needs to be done.
But someone somewhere does and we got to make them listen.
Remember, even if you win, the fight can easily cost you enough to put you out of business..
And that is the heart of the problem, isn't it? Not the law, but the cost of protecting yourself in court against false accusations.
EVERY business is at risk of law suits. Even Microsoft. However it is the big multi-billion-dollar corporations that promote and thrive in this type of legal ecosystem.
What needs to be done here is to remove this money/power from those big corporations. And how that is done is by changing public perception, boycotts, and alternatives like F/OSS.
So if all we do is go around crying wolf everytime we feel insecure we don't shift public perception in the right direction and F/OSS loses support. It doesn't need any support, but if you want to remedy the situation, and the real problem of IP/patent abuse, F/OSS is the best way to fight it.
But I realize most of you are cowards and would rather run than fight. So, what are you waiting for? Run for the hills! The rest of us will hold our ground and let you know when its safe to come back down.
Frankly I don't see anything revolutionary in either Gnome or KDE.
Window shading dynamic paneling vfs (ftp/sftp/nfs/smb in konqueror and nautilus) icon generation (based on the contents of the files) transparent menus full featured CLI terminals with tabs integrated office suite kstars integrated vnc and X virtual desktops configurable taskbars
Not to mention that both KDE and GNOME can be run at the same time and now support sharing the notification area.
That may well be so, but you can still be sued for damages caused by a work if you place a defective work in the public domain.
Are you deliberately trying to misunderstand me or are you just dumb?
Are you deliberately trying to confuse us?
Not that I care, but I don't see how I could be sued for giving some buggy code to the public domain.
I would never do this, because I would never give anyone access to my source code without the restrictions of the GPL places firmly upon them. But I could see how some who prefer the BSD style licenses might opt to make their work free for all. Fortunately, because of my burning hate of capitalists and lawyers and all people everwhere, I will never be that kind..!..
You talk as if Linux isn't going to be around forever.
Be patient, man. Its not worth getting all worked up about. It'll get there, when its ready. There's no reason to push it into the hands of consumers who don't demand it. When they want it it will come.
I wrote a Perl script yesterday with a bad algorithm using 2 lists. Ran all night and was still running when I got into the office this morning, and it didn't spit out any relevant data.
Rewrote the script using 2 hashes in about 15 minutes. Completed in less than a minute with all the info I was looking for.
So, um, I think an evaluation of most programming languages is more dependant on the programmers than the language itself. Sure some languages lack the proper data types or features, but any modern/complete language is capable of being readable and resource efficient if the programmer knows what they are doing. IMO, of course. I'm not a developer.
What he meant here is that it only runs the Linux kernel.. blah, blah, blah.;)
He doesn't care about userland space. You know, I think this is a serious problem.
Now who's being the word nazi/grammar facist?
You think one of the guys with their head buried in the kernel should come up for air once in a while and play around in user land. But I don't. I want to push their head back down in there and keep them hacking on that kernel. They're my code slaves. Without them I'd have to go find someone else cuz I sure as hell don't wanna do it. Do you? So STFU and let them slave away. And don't EVER show them any "cool" userland games!
What types of radiation damage DNA and how exactly do they accomplish this?
How do we get skin cancer? Is it caused by UV radiation? So UV radiation has enough energy to damage DNA? But microwave radiation does not?
Are tumors, cancers and other symptoms of damaged DNA normal? Does DNA just break? Let's say you're walking down the street and you trip and fall, can you break your DNA?
Obviously DNA is being damaged and that damage is coming from somewhere.
Either we've got some high energy radiation that's messing with our DNA or prolonged exposure to low energy radiation does more harm than we thought, or something else is the cause, or its normal and should be expected. So I'm going to assume its somehow related to all these waves and particles that pollute our air. It might be the TVs or the computers or the chemicals, appliances, AC power, etc. But its probably just some radiation, IMO.
So let's say we are pulling this Linux thing in 3 dimensions. As long as we're all pulling it to the right, it doesn't matter if some of us are pulling it up or down. It will still continue to make progress and accelerate in the right direction.
Now let's assume for a minute that this Linux thing stretches. That some of us can pull it up while some of us are pulling it down and both groups will make progress.
We're pulling this system primarily towards standards conformance while maintaining the philosophy of freedom that started it. I see nothing wrong with that. The problems I see are that some people want to direct this movement to make a traditional commercial product replacement just like everyone else dones. This is a problem because those people don't understand the fundamental flaws in the processes that build their commercial products, such as the typical heirarchy of authority, ownership and control.
By keeping it simple, keeping it open and keeping it free we push it into the hands of more people. More people to pull it in new directions and stretch it until it covers most of our needs. Code is very flexible, if it is shared.
I wonder what it would take to teach our politicians about the advantages of sharing. How much money does it take to make a selfish person think selfless thoughts?
You mean a choice between Windows 2000 and Win98, right?
If you mean to say your Windows 2000 bootloader gave you the option of booting Linux, I would have to say: prove it!
Post a screenshot of your boot screen or something. I've been installing Windows professionally for over 5 years and have NEVER seen it autodetect a Linux partition and/or add anything to its boot menu. It always overwrites the boot sector I had previously installed (LILO or GRUB) and gives me two options to boot Win2k (normal and safe mode).
Without proof, to contradict my years of experience, I must assume you are lying. Perhaps you got a new build of Windows 2000 with enhanced features not available to the general public and incorporated customers?
Yep, the CLI is the most efficient interface. Its not the best for everyone, but it is definitely far more powerful than any GUI.
In the CLI, for example, I can write a script that automates things like burning a CD. So a single command "burn" can look at the content I'm trying to burn and determine if its an iso file to burn it with cdrecord, if its a bunch of mp3s or ogg files to uncompress them to wavs and burn them as an audio CD, if its a directory and there's a blank CDR to burn it as a CDR, if its a DVD, burn it with DVD writing software, etc. So I type "burn blah" and it burns it. This is all done through scripting and once its done the user can spend their time automating the next task and so on. Eventually nothing can compare for efficiency. But who wants to learn all that stuff just to burn a freakin CD?
Today its Microsoft. But how many people love them for it? How many people would switch to a different OS because they believe monopolies are bad? Calling these corporations Evil Empires does nothing to help the ignorant consumer.
If Microsoft released their source code under the GPL they would also be a geek's best friend. Because geeks like me believe actions speak louder than words. As long as nobody seems to care about the threat a large corporation poses to their economy, geeks usually don't mind their support. Its like Republicans. As long as nobody wants to kick them out of office I'm willing to accept that $300 tax refund in exchange for my liberty. But I know what I am giving up.
Unlike all the ignorant masses, us geeks will be watching and judging.
Same thing here. What is this Spyware you talk about? Never seen it on Linux.
Crashing is a serious problem for all computers.
Okay, yes, my computers crash too. Sometimes more than once a year.
Constant headaches with system failures, bit rot, and software/hardware installation is a serious problem for all computers.
Bits can rot? System failures? Is that like crashes? Software/hardware installation is not a problem for my Linux systems. I once replaced a motherboard with a whole different motherboard in my RAID server and the system automaticly detected and configured my software RAID when I put the drives on different controllers and in a different order without me needing to edit a single file. It simply works. I plug in a new firewire card or whatever, chances are I have drivers for it already. Except those open source DRI drivers for some video equipment. But 2D always seems to work , sometimes with minor tweaks.
Macs are too expensive. - cf.) "I need a fast CPU"
Macs are too expensive. I need a fast CPU, too. I need a dual-core 3+ Ghz CPU today for under $200. *sigh*
But I think it all boils down to laziness for most people. I mean, who really wants to learn how these things work, besides me? But at least I offer my services for free to early Linux adopters.
Intel doesn't have to redesign the P4M. They already have motherboards and chips up to 1.7 Ghz that would do everything we're talking about in the space and heat requirements of a home entertainment device.
This is more a packaging problem than a hardware problem at this stage. We just need a company like Apple to make a nice looking box, that's all.
Their sales are declining. Eventually companies will stop shipping them to the US because we just aren't buying them.
What might provoke the average Bush supporting American to buy such a device?
Free wireless.
Its all perspective. Sure we could lose a telco or two, but they don't care about giving us free 'net access, ever. Not if they can make a buck off us for something that should be free and doesn't cost a considerable amount to make it free. Haven't we paid them enough?
They should provide more goods and services for the money they are getting. Instead they cap our upload and support the DMCA, government traffic snooping, etc. So fuck 'em.
Slashdot Mirror
So..
we should all go back to living in teepees.
Practical, pragmatic decisions like using Java are not a problem for Open Source.
Maybe so but the end result is no longer Open because it depends on closed libraries/REs. And OSS must not believe that software developed as open source is technologically superior if they're willing to give up access and control of the source code so easily.
Free Software, on the other hand, has a very precise goal which is to make all software in the system open and free. And there are very real legal and financial reasons they want to accomplish this, aside from the obvious technical advantages of having access to code. The FSF does not think any non-free software is detrimental to the community, but rather insists on calling it what it is, not Free. OpenOffice might not be proprietary and closed source yet, but it is not Free if it requires Sun's JRE to be fully functional. Some components are Free and licensed appropriately for approval by the FSF, but not all. So the community will most likely delete the infringing components and replace them with more open source code and move on. In a sense saying, "Thanks, but no thanks" to Sun.
but it is not a catastrophe for the OO.org team to choose the Open Source route.
No this choice is not a catastrophe. But a competing fork built on pure F/OSS software would be. They would lose more community support and have to work harder to compete. That's a one-two punch from the Free Software community, if it happens. Its like trying to make a profit while your market is shrinking and competition is driving down prices (think AOL).
And, as always, we wish them luck. They're going to need it.
We need to build support. You don't do that by quieting the mob. You got to get the message out. Nothing else will help you get something done, assuming you even know what needs to be done.
But someone somewhere does and we got to make them listen.
Remember, even if you win, the fight can easily cost you enough to put you out of business..
And that is the heart of the problem, isn't it? Not the law, but the cost of protecting yourself in court against false accusations.
EVERY business is at risk of law suits. Even Microsoft. However it is the big multi-billion-dollar corporations that promote and thrive in this type of legal ecosystem.
What needs to be done here is to remove this money/power from those big corporations. And how that is done is by changing public perception, boycotts, and alternatives like F/OSS.
So if all we do is go around crying wolf everytime we feel insecure we don't shift public perception in the right direction and F/OSS loses support. It doesn't need any support, but if you want to remedy the situation, and the real problem of IP/patent abuse, F/OSS is the best way to fight it.
But I realize most of you are cowards and would rather run than fight. So, what are you waiting for? Run for the hills! The rest of us will hold our ground and let you know when its safe to come back down.
Frankly I don't see anything revolutionary in either Gnome or KDE.
Window shading
dynamic paneling
vfs (ftp/sftp/nfs/smb in konqueror and nautilus)
icon generation (based on the contents of the files)
transparent menus
full featured CLI terminals with tabs
integrated office suite
kstars
integrated vnc and X
virtual desktops
configurable taskbars
Not to mention that both KDE and GNOME can be run at the same time and now support sharing the notification area.
Frankly you must be blind.
I believe it's harmful to the overall open source community to continue to enforce the notion that Open Source == Linux (and linux only).
Similarly I believe it's harmful to the overall open source community to continue to enforce the notion that Open Source == Free Software.
Union:Member::Corporation:Shareholder
...then take the derivative, as time -> 0, and we get Utopia! :)
time == money
That may well be so, but you can still be sued for damages caused by a work if you place a defective work in the public domain.
.!..
Are you deliberately trying to misunderstand me or are you just dumb?
Are you deliberately trying to confuse us?
Not that I care, but I don't see how I could be sued for giving some buggy code to the public domain.
I would never do this, because I would never give anyone access to my source code without the restrictions of the GPL places firmly upon them. But I could see how some who prefer the BSD style licenses might opt to make their work free for all. Fortunately, because of my burning hate of capitalists and lawyers and all people everwhere, I will never be that kind.
You need it.
;)
No, you need it!
I can just go here?
But, then again, I'm a genius.
You talk as if Linux isn't going to be around forever.
Be patient, man. Its not worth getting all worked up about. It'll get there, when its ready. There's no reason to push it into the hands of consumers who don't demand it. When they want it it will come.
I wrote a Perl script yesterday with a bad algorithm using 2 lists. Ran all night and was still running when I got into the office this morning, and it didn't spit out any relevant data.
Rewrote the script using 2 hashes in about 15 minutes. Completed in less than a minute with all the info I was looking for.
So, um, I think an evaluation of most programming languages is more dependant on the programmers than the language itself. Sure some languages lack the proper data types or features, but any modern/complete language is capable of being readable and resource efficient if the programmer knows what they are doing. IMO, of course. I'm not a developer.
although it obviously only runs Linux
;)
What he meant here is that it only runs the Linux kernel.. blah, blah, blah.
He doesn't care about userland space. You know, I think this is a serious problem.
Now who's being the word nazi/grammar facist?
You think one of the guys with their head buried in the kernel should come up for air once in a while and play around in user land. But I don't. I want to push their head back down in there and keep them hacking on that kernel. They're my code slaves. Without them I'd have to go find someone else cuz I sure as hell don't wanna do it. Do you? So STFU and let them slave away. And don't EVER show them any "cool" userland games!
"This heretic says the Earth revolves around the sun... burn the witch..."
That's just the sort of response I'd expect from traditional institutions like Harvard.
Universities, governments, fundamentalist religions.. what's the difference?
I bet one would learn more about business by running their own business than attending some $40k+/unit class on ethics at Harvard.
Does radiation damage DNA?
What types of radiation damage DNA and how exactly do they accomplish this?
How do we get skin cancer? Is it caused by UV radiation? So UV radiation has enough energy to damage DNA? But microwave radiation does not?
Are tumors, cancers and other symptoms of damaged DNA normal? Does DNA just break? Let's say you're walking down the street and you trip and fall, can you break your DNA?
Obviously DNA is being damaged and that damage is coming from somewhere.
Either we've got some high energy radiation that's messing with our DNA or prolonged exposure to low energy radiation does more harm than we thought, or something else is the cause, or its normal and should be expected. So I'm going to assume its somehow related to all these waves and particles that pollute our air. It might be the TVs or the computers or the chemicals, appliances, AC power, etc. But its probably just some radiation, IMO.
F = Fx + Fy + Fz + Fn
So let's say we are pulling this Linux thing in 3 dimensions. As long as we're all pulling it to the right, it doesn't matter if some of us are pulling it up or down. It will still continue to make progress and accelerate in the right direction.
Now let's assume for a minute that this Linux thing stretches. That some of us can pull it up while some of us are pulling it down and both groups will make progress.
We're pulling this system primarily towards standards conformance while maintaining the philosophy of freedom that started it. I see nothing wrong with that. The problems I see are that some people want to direct this movement to make a traditional commercial product replacement just like everyone else dones. This is a problem because those people don't understand the fundamental flaws in the processes that build their commercial products, such as the typical heirarchy of authority, ownership and control.
By keeping it simple, keeping it open and keeping it free we push it into the hands of more people. More people to pull it in new directions and stretch it until it covers most of our needs. Code is very flexible, if it is shared.
I wonder what it would take to teach our politicians about the advantages of sharing. How much money does it take to make a selfish person think selfless thoughts?
Nobody gives (or should give) a flying fuck about the technology and what it is inside.
Everybody should judge a book by its cover? That would make being a writer so much easier! Why didn't I think of that?!?
...with the choice between the two.
You mean a choice between Windows 2000 and Win98, right?
If you mean to say your Windows 2000 bootloader gave you the option of booting Linux, I would have to say: prove it!
Post a screenshot of your boot screen or something. I've been installing Windows professionally for over 5 years and have NEVER seen it autodetect a Linux partition and/or add anything to its boot menu. It always overwrites the boot sector I had previously installed (LILO or GRUB) and gives me two options to boot Win2k (normal and safe mode).
Without proof, to contradict my years of experience, I must assume you are lying. Perhaps you got a new build of Windows 2000 with enhanced features not available to the general public and incorporated customers?
If you buy into all the HDTV hype why not buy into the BF hype?
You probably don't even use Linux.
I see no reason to waste my time with you.
They won't.
Because they suck.
Yep, the CLI is the most efficient interface. Its not the best for everyone, but it is definitely far more powerful than any GUI.
:)
In the CLI, for example, I can write a script that automates things like burning a CD. So a single command "burn" can look at the content I'm trying to burn and determine if its an iso file to burn it with cdrecord, if its a bunch of mp3s or ogg files to uncompress them to wavs and burn them as an audio CD, if its a directory and there's a blank CDR to burn it as a CDR, if its a DVD, burn it with DVD writing software, etc. So I type "burn blah" and it burns it. This is all done through scripting and once its done the user can spend their time automating the next task and so on. Eventually nothing can compare for efficiency. But who wants to learn all that stuff just to burn a freakin CD?
Well, besides me.
IBM was the Evil Empire of the computer world.
:)
Today its Microsoft. But how many people love them for it? How many people would switch to a different OS because they believe monopolies are bad? Calling these corporations Evil Empires does nothing to help the ignorant consumer.
If Microsoft released their source code under the GPL they would also be a geek's best friend. Because geeks like me believe actions speak louder than words. As long as nobody seems to care about the threat a large corporation poses to their economy, geeks usually don't mind their support. Its like Republicans. As long as nobody wants to kick them out of office I'm willing to accept that $300 tax refund in exchange for my liberty. But I know what I am giving up.
Unlike all the ignorant masses, us geeks will be watching and judging.
So, uh, who ya gonna call Evil next?
Viruses are a serious problem for all computers.
No, just some OSs. Never had a Linux virus.
Spyware is a serious problem for all computers.
Same thing here. What is this Spyware you talk about? Never seen it on Linux.
Crashing is a serious problem for all computers.
Okay, yes, my computers crash too. Sometimes more than once a year.
Constant headaches with system failures, bit rot, and software/hardware installation is a serious problem for all computers.
Bits can rot? System failures? Is that like crashes? Software/hardware installation is not a problem for my Linux systems. I once replaced a motherboard with a whole different motherboard in my RAID server and the system automaticly detected and configured my software RAID when I put the drives on different controllers and in a different order without me needing to edit a single file. It simply works. I plug in a new firewire card or whatever, chances are I have drivers for it already. Except those open source DRI drivers for some video equipment. But 2D always seems to work , sometimes with minor tweaks.
Macs are too expensive. - cf.) "I need a fast CPU"
Macs are too expensive. I need a fast CPU, too. I need a dual-core 3+ Ghz CPU today for under $200. *sigh*
But I think it all boils down to laziness for most people. I mean, who really wants to learn how these things work, besides me? But at least I offer my services for free to early Linux adopters.
Okay, so when has a monopoly been the most optimal solution?
I thought all this economics stuff I should have learned in class taught me that competition brings out the best in capitalists.
Intel doesn't have to redesign the P4M. They already have motherboards and chips up to 1.7 Ghz that would do everything we're talking about in the space and heat requirements of a home entertainment device.
This is more a packaging problem than a hardware problem at this stage. We just need a company like Apple to make a nice looking box, that's all.
Well, do you like little gadgets like PDAs?
Their sales are declining. Eventually companies will stop shipping them to the US because we just aren't buying them.
What might provoke the average Bush supporting American to buy such a device?
Free wireless.
Its all perspective. Sure we could lose a telco or two, but they don't care about giving us free 'net access, ever. Not if they can make a buck off us for something that should be free and doesn't cost a considerable amount to make it free. Haven't we paid them enough?
They should provide more goods and services for the money they are getting. Instead they cap our upload and support the DMCA, government traffic snooping, etc. So fuck 'em.