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IBM to Open Projects at SourceForge.net

Posted by Zonk on from the go-big-blue dept.

cfelde writes "On Friday, IBM said it is contributing some 30 open-source projects to SourceForge.net. IBM also said it is expanding its own developerWorks Web site with more resources including training in PHP and other popular technologies." This probably dovetails with IBM's new full on support of the PHP language.

179 comments

  1. Why am I worried.... by DoraLives · · Score: 4, Interesting
    that this will all turn out horribly wrong in the end? Am I just alergic to large corporations in general?

    Is my tinfoil hat on too tight?

    --
    Is it fascism yet?
    1. Re:Why am I worried.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is my tinfoil hat on too tight?

      It's not your hat, it's your ass.

      And it's GOOD to be a tightass when it comes to big corporations. They can't be trusted, and will screw you over when you aren't looking.

    2. Re:Why am I worried.... by gambit3 · · Score: 1

      Maybe...

      but remember, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

      I think both IBM and yours (and mine) interests are against Micro$oft.

      --
      Watch the Teaser Trailer for "The Lightning Thief" Her
    3. Re:Why am I worried.... by javaxman · · Score: 5, Insightful
      that this will all turn out horribly wrong in the end? Am I just alergic to large corporations in general? Is my tinfoil hat on too tight?

      It's really hard to fault you, actually. History is hard to forget, and it's not unreasonable to wonder if a company can really change it's culture and philosophy so radically.

      On the other hand, if someone is giving you a bunch of cool stuff ( i.e. source code ), and doing so under terms ( i.e. license ) that are acceptable to you... it's generally a good thing. I'm not seeing the downside, at least for OSS developers. The downside could be there, of course... but I can't easily think of what it could be.

      The upside for IBM, on the other hand, is pretty obvious... it's not like they've done this entirely without thinking of their own benefit. Maybe thinking of it that way will make you feel better? It's not so much that IBM has radically changed ( though it has ), it's that they've figured out how to leverage open source development ?

    4. Re:Why am I worried.... by HawkingMattress · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe it's too tight. I mean, since IBM started to embrace free software, they haven't done a bad move. On the contrary, they make very intelligent moves. Of course we all know that their purpose is not to make the world better, whatever that means. But it seems that for now the people taking decisions concerning free software at IBM are always trying to do things the right way.
      I mean, when you think about it, does IBM really care if project X'sources, funded by them, are downloadable by everybody ? Oponents have their own solutions anyway, and are too intrically tied to it. Corporations are happy because they have IBM behind the project, and will buy IBM's support on a particular project if they need it. Plus, they know the code is really free. I think this is a big plus in a lot of smaller shops, who were typically afraid of IBM's known habit to gradually dig his customers into closed solutions.
      And on top of that, IBM knows that if it plays the game well, free software developpers will help them, and push them into their own shops. So it's really a win-win situation for everybody, and they have no interest in cheating. Transparency is the key in this game, and they know it.

    5. Re:Why am I worried.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "he enemy of my enemy is my friend."

      That's what Donald Rumsfeld thought of Saddam Hussein!

    6. Re:Why am I worried.... by mytec · · Score: 1

      I agree with your reasoning but it isn't like IBM is putting AIX code or DB2 code up on SourceForge. That would be a radical change.

    7. Re:Why am I worried.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and OBL in Afghanistan...

    8. Re:Why am I worried.... by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is not the terrace at a football game, Microsoft is not the enemy. They are merely a competitor to a fraction of OSS projects.

      Open source software lives and thrives within a Windows environment. Given any of the common OS's, I can download and install legal software without paying a penny more. It doesn't matter if I am using a Mac or an x86 or something else, software is available.

      If you want the Linux OS to suceed however, you have to convince Dell and HP and Time and Tiny that the OS on their machines is stable and can be supported. I do not know a single home user who has purchased or changed their operating system for a machine they have bought. They will put up with whatever is there until its hardware renewal time.

      I couldn't care less what OS people use, as long as they have choice. Its in our own best interests though to push and market OSS principles and benefits to the rest of the world.

      IBM and Novell have backed a winner in Linux, and with such big names standing behind it, it wont be long before others follow :)

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
    9. Re:Why am I worried.... by extra+the+woos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      shit! If a company figures out how to benefit people AND increase their profits, marketshare, and mindshare, then that is GREAT imho!!! That's the way it should be! Do good things and get rewarded. You can take an easier path (not gonna say omg ms is evil or anything, though obviously look at their past, and look at ibm in the 80's, look at sco etc) of taking the approach of exploiting people and excluding others for the sake of locking people in for profit.

      Ibm is behaving great, and I'll support them. My mom bought a thinkpad, if I buy a laptop it'll be a thinkpad, if my friends ask for something portable (not a desktop replacement laptop but a portable one)... they will get sent to ibm... now, if IBM changes their behavior, I can too. Until then (if ever), they get my support. Simple and fair.

      --
      replacing it with NEW Folger's Crystals! (lets see if they notice the difference)
    10. Re:Why am I worried.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how did it work for WHFS? It turned Latin and is still Latin, last I checked, and in any case is still owned by a Media Giant...

    11. Re:Why am I worried.... by mickwd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      All corporations want it money.

      Lots and lots and lots of money.

      But that's it. Nothing else.

      If they think the best way to make money is by screwing their customers over, then many of them will do it.

      But if a large corporation thinks it can make more money using a different approach, it will.

      Free and open source software is the biggest movement in the software industry today, and is likely to be so for a long time. IBM is riding the wave, so to speak, but is smart enough to realise it's got to give a little as well as take. And it can still make lots of money doing so.

      It's also in its interest to support a movement in which many people (but not all) have a strong dislike of several of their major competitors: Microsoft (deservedly so, I would say), Sun (a little harshly, in my opinion) and, increasingly it would seem, HP.

    12. Re:Why am I worried.... by janbjurstrom · · Score: 1

      But, didn't IBM sell off its PC/laptop ("Think" brand) business to Lenovo? (IBM press release "Lenovo to Acquire IBM Personal Computing Division" ..that I didn't actually read to the end.)

      --
      668.5
    13. Re:Why am I worried.... by varmittang · · Score: 1

      I would say you shouldn't worry about IBM to much. IBM is betting on hardware and services (support) costing money, while software becomes free and open. MS is trying to go the other way by saying hardware will be free (low cost) while software will cost money. Now is the time where whoever can make the ark fast enough and get the animals on board will last the flood. IBM seems to be winning in my mind, and is picking up speed with this idea, and winning more people over with it, where as no one wants to make hardware for free (or cheaper). Some might ask where this leaves someone like Apple. Apple pretty much is a hardware company, but has a great software division. The only time you have to pay for software is to upgrade or get the high end stuff, so Apple's model will work for many years to come till IBM's free software model produces good tools like the iLife sweet is for the Mac.

      --
      -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
      12345
      -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
    14. Re:Why am I worried.... by wdd1040 · · Score: 1

      I agree with you, James. You have reason to tighten that tinfoil hat.

      Large corporations/foundations grow until they realize they are in it for their own interests. Upon that realization they feel it is no longer necessary and begin to think they are self-sustaining without the need to keep user support.

      Eventually, one company will maintain user interest and will dominate the industry to be broken up by legislation paid for by other large conglomerates protecting their own interests.

      -Wes
      (CBSC few years back.)

      --
      wdd
    15. Re:Why am I worried.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > but remember, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

      Yeah, like those good loyal mujahadin freedom fighters against the russians. What's the name of that bigwig organizing their resistance? Osama? Send him a check, ok?

    16. Re:Why am I worried.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not that your tinfoil hat is too tight . . .

      It's that your tinfoil hat is an antenna pointing downwards.

    17. Re:Why am I worried.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is indeed room for both business models, believe it or not. Those cheap razors that used to sell expensive blades (now they just sell you a bunch of razors with blades) ... then there's the electric shaver, expensive, but lasts forever.

      Hm, I forgot to shave this morning.

      I like candy.

    18. Re:Why am I worried.... by javaxman · · Score: 1
      Ibm is behaving great, and I'll support them. My mom bought a thinkpad, if I buy a laptop it'll be a thinkpad

      If you want to help out IBM, you'd be doing them a much bigger favor by contributing to one of their open source efforts ( and promoting Linux over Windows ) than by supporting the PC hardware division they just sold off. ThinkPads are cool and all, but they're not being sold by the the same company that's releasing this source. If you want to buy IBM hardware that actually supports IBM, it's going to have to be a Power server.

      Actually, I suppose in the near-term the sale isn't officially complete, but if it isn't now, it will be soon... it's time to stop thinking of IBM as a company that sells what once were known as "IBM-compatable" systems, as odd as that sounds.

    19. Re:Why am I worried.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're probably thinking everybody donates to opensource for altruistic reasons, so a donation from IBM is suspicious. But these days, there are solid economic reasons to donate to opensource. If you have software that benefits you, but which is not a moneymaking product or a real competitive advantage, then it only makes sense to opensource it. You can get other people helping you develop it, and reduce your costs. What's not to like?

    20. Re:Why am I worried.... by batemanm · · Score: 1
      Am I just alergic to large corporations in general?

      Did you read the instructions on the bottle. It did say not to be taken orally. :-)

    21. Re:Why am I worried.... by Amiga+Trombone · · Score: 1

      If you want to help out IBM, you'd be doing them a much bigger favor by contributing to one of their open source efforts ( and promoting Linux over Windows ) than by supporting the PC hardware division they just sold off. ThinkPads are cool and all, but they're not being sold by the the same company that's releasing this source. If you want to buy IBM hardware that actually supports IBM, it's going to have to be a Power server.

      Actually, I suppose in the near-term the sale isn't officially complete, but if it isn't now, it will be soon... it's time to stop thinking of IBM as a company that sells what once were known as "IBM-compatable" systems, as odd as that sounds.

      Actually, if you want to help IBM, buy a Mac! They actually make money from the chipsets they sell to Apple. One of the reasons their selling their selling the PC division is because it doesn't turn a profit.

      There's more IBM parts in a Mac these days than there is in an IBM PC. How odd is that?

    22. Re:Why am I worried.... by greyhoundpoe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You know, I get kind of bothered by the ub3rcynicism about corporations sometimes. It's not that corporations can't get away with exploitation--they do. It's not that there aren't people who put their personal wealth above all other concerns--there are.

      But when we rant about how corporations are fundamentally evil and never going to change, all we're doing is accepting it. Corporations aren't bloated, undead beast-things that exist off of the souls of the living (well, except EA). They're organizations of people, and the ideals a corporation's leadership pushes are the ideals that corporation follows. We shouldn't be pushing selfless, dedicated people away from corporations and into the Peace Corps or god knows what else--we should be encouraging them to enter the corporate world and make changes. If you say that business is a career choice only for the selfish, manipulative and cruel, all you're doing is criticizing, demeaning and discouraging the people that do business who aren't any of those things.

      Maybe I'm too idealistic, but I see a fundamentally healthy business as one that's profitable because it treats its customers well and fulfills a need customers have better than it had been fulfilled before. I see a corporation existing in any other state as unhealthy. And fine, a lot of corporate America is unhealthy. I'm not arguing that. But when did we start accepting that as a given?

    23. Re:Why am I worried.... by HiThere · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Managements do, however, change. So do corporate policies. One needs to be certain to never trust a corporation so much that one becomes dependent on it, because it may change out from under you.

      I can quite accept that IBM of the current decade has "good" motives. This helps me project the motives of the IBM of 10-15 years from now. But it's no certain guide.

      I put more faith in the GPL...and even there I'm not certain. One never knows what some legislature may decide, or some court.

      For this reason I support having a variety of Free Software licenses used, and housing the sources in a variety of countries. There is no certain protection, but minimizing the breaking points is as big a help as carefully designing each one. Grass is more successful than are Sequoia trees. (OTOH, the Dutch Elm is no more. Linkages can be dangerous.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    24. Re:Why am I worried.... by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      "I mean, since IBM started to embrace free software, they haven't done a bad move"

      Actually they have. Here's an example:

      After buying Rational a few years ago, they killed Rational Visual test because it was a low-cost alternative to Rational Robot. Not only won't they support it, they won't sell you a copy, let you make a copy, or release the source code.

      Hey, they have every right to do this and it's exactly what you'd expect from a closed source company like IBM. My only complaint is their attempt to portray themselves as pro-open source. Instead of opening the source for junk nobody wants, why don't they do it for products people have already voted for with their wallets? The answer isn't hard to figure out.

    25. Re:Why am I worried.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, You are not alergic. Fact is, IBM is the strongest force beneath software patents in Europe, so You can't say it is a "good guy". IBM is just throwing some code here and there to look good for the OSS crowd. Not without success, as You can see...

      Robert

    26. Re:Why am I worried.... by Sunlighter · · Score: 1

      since IBM started to embrace free software, they haven't done a bad move. On the contrary, they make very intelligent moves.

      Just like a chess game. I wonder if they repurposed Deep Thought and Deep Blue toward developing software strategies.

      --
      Sunlit World Scheme. Weird and different.
    27. Re:Why am I worried.... by Timothy+Brownawell · · Score: 1
      Maybe...

      but remember, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

      The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy, nothing more, nothing less.

      Tim

    28. Re:Why am I worried.... by mdecarle · · Score: 1

      Think of it this way: what would it cost IBM to invent, create and code a new operating system, and then bring it to market. Then the question: how can they make money from it? Even if OS/2 is invented and created, it needs new coding and marketing.

      Linux has it's own coders and marketing, there's no inventing or creating to be done, so why not jump the wagon, and ride along?

      It serves IBM for having thought this way when they did, it was a bold decision, but they made it. Remember, IBM sells services, not hard- or software. They sell services. What they are doing now is marketing their name, and selling services with it. Meanwhile, there's some coders because IBM sees things in the F/OSS that can be made better. Idealisme? No, business. And everyone profits from it.

      Hmm...
      1. Forget OS/2
      2. Embrace Linux
      3. Sell services
      4. ???
      5. Profit!

      Conclusion: good thinking at IBM.

    29. Re:Why am I worried.... by javaxman · · Score: 1
      There's more IBM parts in a Mac these days than there is in an IBM PC. How odd is that?

      +5 insightful! Not to mention hi-frickin'-larious!

      That's just weird. Why hadn't I thought of it that way? Of course... this dual G5 PowerMac sitting on my desk has way, way more to do with IBM than any "IBM PC"...

  2. Great news! by keiferb · · Score: 1, Informative

    It's always good to see a big name, particularly one that's not often at the top of the who-do-we-want-to-flame-today list, getting behind OSS products and sites. Yay, IBM!

  3. Amazing by Rei · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's amazing how well IBM has been transforming itself from the universally-recognized Bad Guy(tm) to a geek's best friend ;) Back in the day, IBM was the Evil Empire of the computer world.

    --
    Don't take a knife to a gunfight, or even a knife to a knife fight. Take a gun to a knife fight.
    1. Re:Amazing by Lisandro · · Score: 4, Insightful

      IBM is just protecting their interests. They beleive (like most people here) that most software will become a comodity in the near future, and instead of fighting it they roll along. I happen to beleive it's wise, but's quite a bold move.

      Anyway, yes, it is weird. Not to long ago IBM was as hatred as Microsoft is now...

    2. Re:Amazing by someguy456 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      It's amazing how well IBM has been transforming itself from the universally-recognized Bad Guy(tm) to a geek's best friend ;) Back in the day, IBM was the Evil Empire of the computer world.

      If IBM was able to turn around from the "Bad Guy(tm)" to a geek's best friend, I think there is a possibility that many years from now, today's Evil Empire, Microsoft, might become a geek's best friend while, oh, let's say Google became the new "Bad Guy(tm)

      May God help us all...
      --
      Robert Bindler
      A Computer Science student's views on technology.
    3. Re:Amazing by peragrin · · Score: 1

      Excuse me for a moment.

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      The only reason IBM is turning around is because they are giving up control of the software. MSFT never had a good product to begin with. Why would anyone continue it. Netscape 4 might of sucked, but Netscape 3 was good. A Base in other words was needed.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    4. Re:Amazing by TopSpin · · Score: 1

      a geek's best friend

      Unless that geek is employed in the West. IBM is a pioneer in outsourcing; IBM makes geeks cheaper.

      --
      Lurking at the bottom of the gravity well, getting old
    5. Re:Amazing by Cyno · · Score: 2, Insightful

      IBM was the Evil Empire of the computer world.

      Today its Microsoft. But how many people love them for it? How many people would switch to a different OS because they believe monopolies are bad? Calling these corporations Evil Empires does nothing to help the ignorant consumer.

      If Microsoft released their source code under the GPL they would also be a geek's best friend. Because geeks like me believe actions speak louder than words. As long as nobody seems to care about the threat a large corporation poses to their economy, geeks usually don't mind their support. Its like Republicans. As long as nobody wants to kick them out of office I'm willing to accept that $300 tax refund in exchange for my liberty. But I know what I am giving up.

      Unlike all the ignorant masses, us geeks will be watching and judging.

      So, uh, who ya gonna call Evil next? :)

    6. Re:Amazing by stevesliva · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, IBM thinks CPU time will be the commodity and services will the the cash cow. Stable, reliable open software will be the grease, the public good.

      --
      Who do you get to be an expert to tell you something's not obvious? The least insightful person you can find? -J Roberts
    7. Re:Amazing by tartanblue · · Score: 1
      I think I found a mispelling in your post. Here is the corrected version:

      Dell is a pioneer in outsourcing; Dell makes geeks cheaper.
      --
      TartanBlue
    8. Re:Amazing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IBM does not care about Linux from a software ethics point of view or some new found devotion to OSS. It's about making money. Their support could disappear as quick as it came. Admittedly, IBM is doing a great job in winning over the hearts and minds of the Linux community. But, what is the real reason for this apparent support?

      Remember OS/2? It never took off, IBM missed out on the x86 OS market. IBM slept through the dot com explosion and let Sun take control of the Unix market. The mainframe market has been in serious decline for years. So IBM does not have the OS story they need to dominate any of those markets. Enter Linux, now they are pushing Linux on all the traditional IBM platforms. Linux on mainframes, Linux on pSeries and Linux on their xSeries servers. Linux is helping them make some return on what was not too long ago a hopeless case for them. But yet, they do not own Linux so they can't make any money from the OS itself. That's why they are calling themselves a services company now, that is the only way they can pull money out of Linux. Interesting how Linux is doing some much to help IBM's bottom line and yet they take it for free. Oh yea, thats right they invested 2 billion dollars into Linux, right? Anyone seen the itemized list for that investment?

      I would not be suprised if there have been meetings at IBM to figure out how they can take control of Linux. It would take time, a long time, but IBM is a patient company and they know that the first step in controling Linux is to win over the community.

    9. Re:Amazing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I'm not sure I agree with your tone, I do agree with your statement.

      Unlike just about everyone else, MS can't adopt open source since it kills the only way they've figured out how to make money: charge top dollar for commodity software.

      Open source doesn't really affect IBM's business plan, nor many other companies that are moving to or will eventualy end up embracing it.

      MS, well they've got tons of cash, but their "out" is going to be much more complicated (like say, fundamentally changing what they do for a living -- and they've been trying for a long time with just about zero success).

      Anyways, instead of attributing "good" or "evil" to companies, I think my personal views are swayed more by "what do they do for a living"? I really don't see much value in what MS does for the money they charge me (it's commodity technology and software after all), and there is some respect for a company that is doing something productive for the money they charge.

      MS extorts money from me, and maybe they'll turn to "good guys" if they figure out a way of providing something, anything, that I feel is worthy of my money.

      Anyways, IBM's out to make cash, just like MS, but they seem willing to do something useful in exchange whereas MS holds data in purposely obfuscated file formats to force people to give them money. For the same functionality, over and over again.

      * I know that when IBM was "evil", it was pretty much for the same reason. Hey, they owned business computing and told people what they needed to buy. They then told them what they needed to pay IBM to make it happen. They forgot that "the customer is always right" and eventually it bit them in the butt. I fully expect the same thing to happen to MS -- and I have doubts their transformation will be as "easy" and "painless" as it was for IBM.

      Anyways, why currently MS == "evil social parasite that contributes nothing to society nor its customers", IBM == "out to make money but at least willing to work for it" and why these could (and have) changed over time.

    10. Re:Amazing by sconeu · · Score: 4, Insightful

      IBM, while dominating and monopolistic in its day, did have a reputation for quality and topnotch research.

      Yes, there is MS Research but it's in no way comparable to IBM Research.

      And don't even mention MS and "quality" in the same breath unless the words "lack of" are placed between them.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    11. Re:Amazing by mingot · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Tech support retards are not geeks. They are cretins with one clue cell more than the idiots they service.

    12. Re:Amazing by extra+the+woos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Unlike just about everyone else, MS can't adopt open source since it kills the only way they've figured out how to make money: charge top dollar for commodity software." I'm not saying your whole post is wrong or anything. But this part is wrong. Look at where MS is going. The last several years they have been moving away from depending on software. They have started realizing what is about to happen, and they are moving to a position where they will provide the hardware you want to have to exit in the digital age. One word: x-box. I believe this is MS diversifying because they know they need something more than windows and office.

      --
      replacing it with NEW Folger's Crystals! (lets see if they notice the difference)
    13. Re:Amazing by loconet · · Score: 3, Funny

      "Yes, there is MS Research but it's in no way comparable to IBM Research."

      No kidding, specially when you have research like this at IBM:

      "Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Quantum Computing"

      vs Research like this at MS:


      "Turn Your Photos into Movies
      Researchers from the lab in Beijing have developed a system that can take your still photographs and automatically convert them into motion."

      --
      [alk]
    14. Re:Amazing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You people are sheep.

      They are ALL Bad Guys(tm).

      They are not out to be you're best friend. They just want to take all your money. If you happen to be smiling when they do it, all the better.

    15. Re:Amazing by mattyrobinson69 · · Score: 1

      is it suns turn to be evil this week or next week? i know its my turn to do the shopping this week so yes, its suns turn to be evil the week after next.

    16. Re:Amazing by killjoe · · Score: 1

      I can't speak for the rest of the world but in America people don't give a crap. No matter how evil and vile somebody acts if they can promise you a couple of bucks or offer up some idealogy the sheeple will fall for it hook line and sinker.

      Look at it this way. 9/11 was the single largest failure of american intelligence since pearl harbor and the guy most responsible for it got a metal. The people that were most responsible for sloppy planning and execution of the invasion of Iraq were all promoted, the guy who wrote the memos justifying torture was promoted.

      If an average American can't get lathered up about widespread torture of humans under our care why do you think they will raise an eyebrow over widespread unethical and sleazy behavior by Bill Gates and his company?

      "So, uh, who ya gonna call Evil next? :)"

      See my sig.

      --
      evil is as evil does
    17. Re:Amazing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Back in the day IBM sold tabulation machines to the Nazis which helped them along nicely with the holocaust.

      http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/06 09 808990

    18. Re:Amazing by flacco · · Score: 1
      Today its Microsoft. But how many people love them for it? How many people would switch to a different OS because they believe monopolies are bad? Calling these corporations Evil Empires does nothing to help the ignorant consumer.

      it does *some* good. there are people who wouldn't even think to consider MS as evil unless they hear someone say it, and they start thinking "hmmm, now why does he say that?"

      So, uh, who ya gonna call Evil next? :)

      whoever's evil :-)

      --
      pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
    19. Re:Amazing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      And don't even mention MS and "quality" in the same breath unless the words "lack of" are placed between them.
      Umm DUDE! You just said MS and "quality" with out the words "lack of" in between.
    20. Re:Amazing by HiThere · · Score: 1

      There is significant evidence that Intelligence did not fail, but rather was disregarded. It's not proof, and in this situation it's probably impossible to get proof. But there IS significant evidence.

      So I'm not at all sure that you should be blaming the intelligence community rather than those who refused to listen.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    21. Re:Amazing by sconeu · · Score: 1

      DOH!

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    22. Re:Amazing by killjoe · · Score: 1

      " There is significant evidence that Intelligence did not fail, but rather was disregarded."

      That's not really all that much better. Either way the head of the CIA should have been canned instead of being given a metal. In fact the president should have been canned too.

      It's the job of the CIA to tell the truth to the national security advisor. It's her job to tell the president to truth, and it's the job of the president to make decisions.

      So what happened? Tenant was given a metal, rice was promoted and bush got re-elected. Incompetence pays in the US.

      --
      evil is as evil does
    23. Re:Amazing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh, let's say Google became the new "Bad Guy(tm)"

      What a truly frightening concept. I mean, Google's products actually work.

    24. Re:Amazing by Artemis · · Score: 1

      I'm generally not a spelling/grammar snob, but you got this one wrong in three times in your last two posts: the word you're looking for is "medal", not "metal".

      --
      mcox.com - Useful Information re: IT, Running, Fitness, Finance, or Ann Arbor!
    25. Re:Amazing by lexiconographolologi · · Score: 0

      Kind of like Russia used to be the evil empire, and now people we backed we now see as evil (afghanistan)

      --
      Give my girl Lindsay an email
  4. IBM's rhype also now open source by Xpilot · · Score: 4, Informative

    On a somewhat related note, IBM has released rhype, it's research hypervisor as open source under the GPL. This should spice up the free hypervisor community. First Xen, now IBM's rhype. Choice is so good :)

    --
    "Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds
    1. Re:IBM's rhype also now open source by qkslvrwolf · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, but what is a hypervisor?

      --
      Or have you only comfort...that stealthy thing that enters the house and guest then becomes host, then master - KG
    2. Re:IBM's rhype also now open source by TheSync · · Score: 2, Funny

      It "hypes up" your work.

      Suddenly, your "hello world" CGI script is a "highly virtualized, service-oriented architecture, scalable to grid computing."

    3. Re:IBM's rhype also now open source by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 2, Informative

      It manages system virtualization. Sits between the OS and the iron, and can host several OSs simultaneously. This is a big, important feature of IBM's products.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    4. Re:IBM's rhype also now open source by tweek · · Score: 1

      You know, as a side note, when we we're spec'ing out our p570 boxen and we we're concerned with redundancy (do we go 2 lpar on an 8-way 570 or two 4-way 570?). I was grilling a guy about all the points of failure along the way (this is a huge financial database for all of our stores). We finally got down to the hypervisor level.

      I asked him what happens if the hypervisor fails.

      He didn't have an answer. He seemed flabergasted that I would ask that. When he called back after consulting the engineers, he said that indeed, if the hypervisor failed, all LPARS would be unavailable.

      He told me though that the Hypervisor NEVER failed.

      I'll find out down the road when we get our pSeries install finished.

      We decided to go 2 LPAR for failover and bought a separate 4 way as a ultimate backup.

      Anyone ever seen a hypervisor fail? How ugly is it?

      --
      "Fighting the underpants gnomes since 1998!" "Bruce Schneier knows the state of schroedinger's cat"
    5. Re:IBM's rhype also now open source by HiThere · · Score: 1

      I've never used one, but you can be guaranteed that it occasionally fails, or masks a failing in the underlying hardware (without fixing it). NOTHING is perfect.

      This *DOESN'T* mean panic. It *DOES* mean "Don't put all your eggs in one basket", "Use off-site backups", etc. After all, realistically one can only reduce the chances of failure so far before the cost of then next improvement is greater than the benefit. (Still, it *would* be nice to get a handle on what the chance is. I'll accept that it's quite low, but HOW low? Once in a trillion operations? More infrequent? Less? Once in a million minutes? More often? Less?)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  5. Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    do we like IBM this week?

    1. Re:Wait... by jo42 · · Score: 1

      Until next week. Or until they do something 'we' consider evil...

    2. Re:Wait... by IntergalacticWalrus · · Score: 1

      You seem to be confused with Sun.

    3. Re:Wait... by Spoing · · Score: 2, Interesting
      1. do we like IBM this week?

      IBM was a rat bastard company ready to meet it's ultimate demise around 1990. Nobody trusted or liked them...except for the fact that IBM was huge.

      Then, early in the 90s the stock crashed to about 1/3 of it's 1980s price. And stayed there. That woke the shareholders up who decided that the IBM institution had to be obliterated if anything of the share value could be saved.

      Since then, they have gone through multiple reforms. Early on, many of those changes did not improve profits at all. In some ways they became weaker.

      Yet...over the last 8 years...I would put IBM in the 'mostly good' category because they decided not to be rat bastards anymore and to do less dammage and more good. A side benifit to this change is that they regained stock value and they didn't end up getting sold for the IBM name alone.

      Nobody likes a jerk or a bully -- and it doesn't help the bully very long either. Eventually all bullies either loose friends and increase the bullying (and payoffs and threats) or become nice and benifits from the mutual friendship. That's one of the reasons why a dictatorship is efficient only for a small set of goals that the dictator has while being very wasteful for other goals of society.

      IBM like a reformed bully who doesn't want to go back to the old days. There are benifits of not clubbing other kids for lunch money and instead bringing extra gum to share.

      The IBM of today does not compete with IBM's customers and is not making plans to grow into IBM's customer's spaces. That's one of the main reasons nobody feels threatened by IBM.

      --
      A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
  6. So what are these apps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Thirty hello world programs in COBOL?

    1. Re:So what are these apps? by einhverfr · · Score: 1

      Nah.... Only ten of them are in Cobol. Ten are written in Fortran, and ten are written in Algol....

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  7. IBM And MONEY by Indes · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They have it, why not create a sourceforge like site for their own projects instead of using the good will of other open source companies?

    or do they plan to donate some money to it to help it all as a whole??

    IBM is in an odd situation no doubt, but using OpenSource public tools when properly funded seems somewhat.. rude, no?

    1. Re:IBM And MONEY by Stradenko · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm happy to let IBM put its shit in our community wheelbarrow. More shit for everyone can only be good.

    2. Re:IBM And MONEY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It all depends on if IBM is dumping the projects or plans to stay actively involved. If they are passing the project on for others to take care of then Sourceforge seems like the right place for it.

    3. Re:IBM And MONEY by Godwin+O'Hitler · · Score: 1

      FFS! You want them to be like Sun, in a parallel universe?

      --
      No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.
    4. Re:IBM And MONEY by coolcold · · Score: 1

      considering the amount of resource they will use in sf.net, i won't mind them to have project hanging around there. If they have their own server using a different domain name, it is less likely for other people to find the project than having it in sf.net. And would you choose another domain popping up or would you choose project in sf.net that are monitored by thousands of users?

      --
      I am harvesting funny/good quotes. Please help by putting them in your sigs :)
    5. Re:IBM And MONEY by m50d · · Score: 1

      I don't see it as rude, on the contrary I feel they're trying to show they're part of the community. I get distrustful when a company proclaims it's releasing something as open source, but it's under some weird-ass license I've never seen before and only available from their site. Putting it on sourceforge shows it's the real deal.

      --
      I am trolling
    6. Re:IBM And MONEY by Aspirator · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sourceforge is the acknowledged place these things
      are coordinated, It is great to see a giant like
      IBM contributing in the 'commoners' forum.

      > but using OpenSource public tools when
      > properly funded seems somewhat.. rude, no?

      Rude? NO. It is a very good thing.
      It is a testament to how good some of the Open Source tools have become.

    7. Re:IBM And MONEY by b3s · · Score: 1

      have you considered the fact that they might already support sourceforge by using sourceforge enterprise internally? note: i have no clue if they do or do not, but to instantly accuse them of not supporting sourceforge via product purchase just seems rather rude to me.

      --
      a polar bear is a rectangular bear after a coordinate change.
    8. Re:IBM And MONEY by Mel · · Score: 1

      They have it, why not create a sourceforge like site for their own projects instead of using the good will of other open source companies?

      Because then they would be forming the IBM-open-source community or growing a NIH complex. There is no point having the IBM Open Source Community and the Everybody Else Open Source Community.

    9. Re:IBM And MONEY by kiore · · Score: 3, Informative

      Putting the source code in a repository they neither own nor control makes me feel more comfortable that they are sincere.

      Given IBM's recent history, it didn't surprise me to hear that they are a cash contributor to Sourceforge. The "site sponsors" block on the left of the Sourceforge homepage contains at least one link to an IBM site. I clicked the DB2 link to see where it went ... www14.software.ibm.com

    10. Re:IBM And MONEY by El+Cubano · · Score: 1

      They have it, why not create a sourceforge like site for their own projects instead of using the good will of other open source companies?

      If they use a common resource like SourceForge, the will avoid accusations that they may later revoke access.

      E.g., IBM starts a new site called IBMForge.net. People will jump and scream because, rather than use existing resources (like SourceForge), they are trying to keep a tight reign on "their" code. By going GPL and using SourceForge they have chosen what is probably the best solution given the circumstances.

    11. Re:IBM And MONEY by stevesliva · · Score: 1
      Perhaps you mean something like DeveloperWorks: Open Source?

      But isn't being a team player the whole point, anyways? IBM can join teams when it doesn't want to start one, right?

      --
      Who do you get to be an expert to tell you something's not obvious? The least insightful person you can find? -J Roberts
    12. Re:IBM And MONEY by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 1

      You jackass. They help pay Linus' damn salary. I suspect they might kick a few pennies towards sourceforge as well.

      No, funding and using public Open Source tools does not seem rude.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    13. Re:IBM And MONEY by jalefkowit · · Score: 1
      They have it, why not create a sourceforge like site for their own projects instead of using the good will of other open source companies?

      Wha? Why on earth should they reinvent the wheel?

      Does having IBM projects on Sourceforge diminish the value of the other projects hosted there somehow?

      Why spend money building Yet Another Online Source Code Repository, when they could save that money and put it into improving their OSS projects?

      How is any of this "rude"?

      --

      Read my blog.

    14. Re:IBM And MONEY by saugart · · Score: 1
      They have it, why not create a sourceforge like site for their own projects
      IBM has done that for several years, and is trying to turn this over to professionals like SourceForge who have this as their core competency. My project, Jikes RVM, is one of the thirty that's been transferred. For the past three years, we'd been hosted on IBM's developerWorks.
      or do they plan to donate some money to it to help it all as a whole??
      They don't just "plan to". They made a donation (I don't know how big) to SourceForge and paid them to assist with the transfer of the projects. I'm pleased about the move; being there with other Free Java projects will make it easier for folks looking for a free runtime environment for Java to find us.
    15. Re:IBM And MONEY by Deraj+DeZine · · Score: 1

      Since when is giving software out for free a bad thing?

      Besides, I'm pretty sure that they donated DB2 to SF.net. What else do they need to do?

      --
      True story.
  8. Good news for PHP... by bc90021 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...and I'm glad it was included in this story, since I hadn't seen the prior one.

    While a lot of people like to knock PHP (mostly Java guys, but hey ;) ), I love it. It's easy, functional, and lately, a lot more mature with the OO aspects. (I have one class now that I use for database access, and it makes life so much easier.)

    With things like PHP-GTK, you can even use it to write applications, and with IBM behind it, things will likely only improve.

    --
    libertarianswag.com
    1. Re:Good news for PHP... by harborpirate · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Languages are a tool - and each tool has its own use. You shouldn't use a screwdriver to pound a nail, as it were. Because even though you might get it to work, you're putting more effort into it than you really need to.

      To me, PHP is great for small, agile projects - ones that need to be designed and written quickly, and require a lot of changes to the code to happen throughout implementation.

      I think OO PHP isn't all bad - being able to compartmentalize your code for reuse and complexity reduction is great.

      My concern, however, is that people will start to look at PHP as an enterprise level language, which in my opinion, it isn't. Every PHP project that I've worked on started to break down after a certain level of complexity. I think part of this was due to the lack of Object Orientation, but I think part of it was also the nature of the language itself. I'll be interested to see what IBM can do with PHP, but lets just say I don't envy their guys if they're trying to switch their enterprise level development to use it.

      --
      // harborpirate
      // Slashbots off the starboard bow!
    2. Re:Good news for PHP... by m50d · · Score: 1

      As a python guy who hates Java, does this mean I should be supporting PHP? Or are we sworn enemies as well?

      --
      I am trolling
    3. Re:Good news for PHP... by teknomage1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I' pretty sure people knock it because it's easy. Some people feel intimidated by things being made easier for the masses because they're afraid of being obsolete. A rather prominent greek philosopher came out against paper because he felt it'd be the downfall of society. Young people wouldn't bother to memorize things anymore and so and so forth. Many people attack PHP as a language that let's bad programmers make websites, so clearly they're talking about the downfall of programming civilization. Now php does have some syntax issues, but hopefully those'll get worked out before too long. I still think it makes a great first language for people to discover programming with.

      --
      Stop intellectual property from infringing on me
    4. Re:Good news for PHP... by kevinbr · · Score: 1
      Another problem is the all or nothing mentality. Either do it in Java or do it in PHP. The reality should be to be selective. Certainly for customer/web facing functionality PHP usually has enough steam, but I suspect that J2EE's container functionality seems attractive to developers, but they rarely seem to actually exercise this capability and end up with a mess of JSP.

      90% of the stuff on the web is just a bunch of SELECT statements and some minimal logic. PHP is fine for this. When you get to the tasty bits that need transactions and failover and loadbalancing with session awareness, then you can jump to Java.

    5. Re:Good news for PHP... by tijnbraun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It think it is moslty due to the nature of the language.

      If a project gets complex, and you don't have a compiler to check your code before it runs, refactoring gets really difficult. You can still do some sort of unit testing. But the combination of unit testing and strong type language is much more powerfull.

      If refactoring gets difficult and adjustments have to be implimented due to requirement changes, bugs will start to appear. And they will only rear their heads once the code is executed.

      A class might still pass the unit test but without interface checking of a compiler you are never certain that other code using that class will not fail.

      I could be doing something wrong but often when I have to change code in php I use grep to check whether other code is using that function etc.

    6. Re:Good news for PHP... by nlmueng · · Score: 1

      JCP for scripiting languages is becoming part of java so web apps can be created using PHP but still use all other parts of J2EE. http://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=223 Could be why they are supporting it now, will right right out of the box on their app server. So not all 'Java guys' feel this way

    7. Re:Good news for PHP... by LnxAddct · · Score: 1

      Why hate java? For web applications you can't get much more scalable then java. I'm a java/python/C++/C/perl hacker and they all have benefits. The right tool for the right job. Java has to be doing something right, afterall how many corporations don't rely heavily upon it? Developing for java is actually a pleasure since amazing IDE's like Eclipse and NetBeans have been released. Theses IDE's have extensive support for everything from desktop programs with gui builders, web applications with integration to tomcat, to mobile device developement with cell phone emulators and the works. Hell, java can even be used for OS developement (jNode ) once you get the assembly stub out of the way. With today's VMs I often find java is faster or on par with C++. It really is a nice language.
      Regards,
      Steve

    8. Re:Good news for PHP... by helixcode123 · · Score: 1
      (I have one class now that I use for database access, and it makes life so much easier.)

      I'm sure you're not re-inventing the wheel, but have you checked out the PEAR::DB module? I use it to avoid the gross php database-specific functions (e.g. mysql_query).

      --

      In a band? Use WheresTheGig for free.

    9. Re:Good news for PHP... by onash · · Score: 1
      PHP as an enterprise level language, which in my opinion, it isn't. Every PHP project that I've worked on started to break down after a certain level of complexity. I think part of this was due to the lack of Object Orientation
      you could say the same thing about Linux being written in C, but its written in an OO way. OO-programming is just a way to write programs that is applicable even though the language doesn't support it fully.

      but i agree with you, every PHP project i've seen is a mess compared to most Java projects.. the same with Object Oriented C code and OO C++ code.
    10. Re:Good news for PHP... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > 90% of the stuff on the web is just a bunch of SELECT statements and some minimal logic. PHP is fine for this

      Long as it's SELECT, sure. The moment you get INSERT or UPDATE into the equation though, PHP and its moral equivalent in a RDBMS, MySQL, just totally fail to satisfy. PHP tends to intersperse code definition, execution, and templating. Know what happens if you include() a page with a parse error? The whole interpreter dies. Instantly. Can't be caught.

    11. Re:Good news for PHP... by kevinbr · · Score: 1
      "PHP tends to intersperse code definition, execution, and templating"

      Well any language can be crap. Me, I hate JSP. With PHP I have code and a separate html template. I use Savant now.....

      "The whole interpreter dies"

      Yes Yes it does. I see it as a feature......fix the parse error before you deploy your code. Never include without testing.

      It is a scripting language.

      Most Web sites have infrequent INSERTS and UPDATES. MySQL......whatever....it just works for simple stuff.

    12. Re:Good news for PHP... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I want to see PHP (and Perl, Python and ruby) on parrot, hopefully IBM will see the possibilities too. That would be a real kick in the crutch to .NET and beats playing into MS hands with mono.

    13. Re:Good news for PHP... by mattyrobinson69 · · Score: 1

      youve obviously never heard of a manchester nail (hammer a screw when your in a rush or cant be arsed)

    14. Re:Good news for PHP... by mattyrobinson69 · · Score: 1

      its also very useful for small things, like adding a HTTP header, inserting the date, sending email, includes (for modular HTML).

      Im using the includes on a site im working on at the moment because its so easy - one line and the top and one line at the bottom of each page, and i just have to put the content in the middle

    15. Re:Good news for PHP... by kevinbr · · Score: 1
      And this is probably the effect that one used to see with Linux....Joe Bloggs taught himself Linux at home but had to professional training as a large scale sys admin. Introduces Linux cause it Just Works....but cannot scale beacause he has no methodology for manag lots and lots of systems.

      PHP could be the same. Lots of self taught PHP small scale guys grow into projects that are over their head. Of course they can if - then -else etc, but have no concept of how to write or manage large scale web apps.

    16. Re:Good news for PHP... by Decaff · · Score: 1

      Another problem is the all or nothing mentality. Either do it in Java or do it in PHP. The reality should be to be selective.

      The problem is that this is not a good way to build up expertise and a good versatile code library in a company. The result of trying to always choose the 'right tool for the job' is often a lot of duplicated code in a range of languages.

      Certainly for customer/web facing functionality PHP usually has enough steam, but I suspect that J2EE's container functionality seems attractive to developers, but they rarely seem to actually exercise this capability and end up with a mess of JSP.

      Why should JSP be any more messy than PHP? Why start with something that 'might' have enough steam - surely using a technology like JSP which is just as simple to code, but gives you the possibility of using more advanced J2EE capabilities is a better approach?

      90% of the stuff on the web is just a bunch of SELECT statements and some minimal logic. PHP is fine for this.

      Surely JSP is equally suited for such small work?

      When you get to the tasty bits that need transactions and failover and loadbalancing with session awareness, then you can jump to Java.

      But if you use JSP, there is no need to jump - you are already there.

    17. Re:Good news for PHP... by mparaz · · Score: 1

      Here is Zend's page on the integration ... ironically enough, Sun is a supporter, but IBM is not.

    18. Re:Good news for PHP... by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      manchester nail

      So the dolts live in Manchester, eh?

      Here we refer to this practice as using the up and down screwdriver.

    19. Re:Good news for PHP... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree that PHP is great way for people to learn to program. It's scripted nature makes it incredibly easy to see what is going on in the script. But one of the reasons it is so easy to learn and use is because it avoids many complicated language features of more powerful languages. Things like type safety, useful variable scoping and true oo functionality (polymorphism, etc.) were created for a reason and weren't added to languages like Java just to make the language more complicated.

    20. Re:Good news for PHP... by m50d · · Score: 1
      Why hate java?

      Because it's overused and really horrible to program in. At least for me.

      The right tool for the right job

      Yes, and java has its place, like haskell (which I like, but would never try to do everything in). But its shoehorned into everything, when it's too heavily OO to be a good general-purpose language.

      Java has to be doing something right

      Yes. Marketing. Buzzwords. Making PHBs think they need to be using it for everything.

      Developing for java is actually a pleasure since amazing IDE's like Eclipse and NetBeans have been released.

      It's never been a pleasure for me, and believe me I've tried. I want to like java, really I do. It would make finding a good programming job so much easier. But every time I try to use it it's an utterly horrible experience.

      cell phone emulators and the works

      And you'd have thought cellphones with their resource limitations were were native optimisations were needed the most. But no, they have to have java on them. And the same for the OS.

      With today's VMs I often find java is faster or on par with C++

      I get shouted down as a troll whenever I say that java GUI apps are incredibly slow, but it's true. I have never seen a graphical java program that will start anywhere near native speed. In the time it takes to start jedit I can have emacs, kwrite and gvim all up and running. Same for yaggui compared to starting apollon, giftui and giftcurs, and yaggui isn't even particularly featureful. I'll grant that Azureus is a pretty nice bittorrent client, but that doesn't excuse a 20s startup time when the official client starts in 5. And when they are running, there is a perceptible delay between clicking a menu and having it open up - the only other place I see this is windows programs running under wine. Most people presumably have faster machines than the ones I'm using (650mhz celeron w/ 64mb ram and 800mhz duron/256mb ram), and so this is not a problem for them. But it is a genuine problem for me, and I simply can't afford better machines. I'll grant that java console apps don't seem to be that much slower than anything else once they've actually started up.

      It really is a nice language

      That hasn't been my experience at all, and I've tried to learn it and like it on three separate occasions. It seems to combine the simplicity and programming ease of C with the performance of python or lisp. The stupidly verbose syntax, the need to OO-ify everything, all the places where it's identical to C++ except for one critical difference, the confusing gui library, the horribly bloated installation... it's just been horrible.

      --
      I am trolling
    21. Re:Good news for PHP... by mattyrobinson69 · · Score: 1

      thats funny, i think i might use that

  9. List of the Projects? by D4rk+Fx · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Does anyone have a list of all thr projects IBM is helping? TFA didn't seem to have all of them, only a couple

    1. Re:List of the Projects? by UTF-8 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I don't know all of them, but one of the projects that was moved was http://icu.sourceforge.net/

      IBM has been very involved with open source for many years, and now they are moving the hosting of many projects to other sites. One of them is to sourceforge. The donation was more of a move from DeveloperWorks to Sourceforge because of the increasing costs (bureaucracy) to maintain many projects on ibm.com.

      ICU (International Components for Unicode) has been on DeveloperWorks and AlphaWorks as open source since 1999.

    2. Re:List of the Projects? by TheDread · · Score: 0

      http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=44 9291 The projects listed on SourceForge

      --
      "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup."
  10. which 30 projects? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    are they 30 projects that IBM is interested in or 30 projects that they were planning to abandon but felt they could get some goodwill outof instead?

    1. Re:which 30 projects? by MicroBerto · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Everyone wants to know which projects, and we'll find out soon enough.

      However, I don't like the attitude in the above post. In the grand scheme of things, 30 projects is NOTHING, and it doesn't matter what they do. What matters is if collaboration and support rise and IBM likes the results that they get, they will do it MORE.

      So quit griping - any support is good, and if the community supports it in return, you've made a good ally and have a good future.

      --
      Berto
  11. The Why by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Insightful
    IBM Software is turning up the noise on its open-source contributions.

    What it's about:

    An interesting bit on the transition and recovery of IBM was on the BBC a couple days back, refreshing and adding a layer of information to my memory of experience with the behemoth IT company. IBM's core business is selling service, not hardware (they sold the PC unit to Lenovo) and big iron doesn't sell much anymore, so they've come to the point of making some hardware, but throwing their weight behind systems and services. Why so much given to Open Source? IBM is more than just friendly to Linux and Open Source, but see them as their life blood. They won't make money pushing systems built around Microsoft Windows, because that leaves too much leverage in an external (and sometimes unfriendly) camp. Not to overlook the taint associated over the past few years with gaping security holes in Microsoft products, which could reflect very negatively on IBM having to go in and clean up the mess. A couple years ago IBM had already broken the 1G$ barrier on Linux systems, in one quarter. I haven't looked at their company statements lately, but it's clear this is their planned direction of growth.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:The Why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IBM has passed the one gazillion dollar mark?

      Wow!

      *cough*

    2. Re:The Why by ralphclark · · Score: 1

      ROTFLMAO! Thanks!

  12. Large Corporations and Criticism by sameerdesai · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's amazing how we criticise M$ for not being open and IBM for tring to be open.

    1. Re:Large Corporations and Criticism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It will be nice if IBM open source their cash cow Websphere, DB2 line products!!! rather giveaway some DOA softwares

    2. Re:Large Corporations and Criticism by sporty · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No it's not. People are more likely to complain about small discomforts than praise small acomplishments. The scales tip to criticizing.

      --

      -
      ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only

    3. Re:Large Corporations and Criticism by Spoing · · Score: 1
      1. It's amazing how we criticise M$ for not being open and IBM for tring to be open.

      There is a substantial difference between the two.

      For the most part....

      When IBM opens a project they are on the same footing as any other person, group, or corporation. Anyone can either fork or take over the project if IBM drops the ball or attempts to take the project in a direction somebody else does not want.

      When Microsoft 'opens' a project, it's in a glass case. You can see it, though you can't touch or can only submit changes back to Microsoft. At best, Microsoft offers truely open parts for a few incomplete projects that are closely tied to other propriatory Microsoft products. They do not provide fully usable and portable projects.

      While these statements are generalities, the fact is that there is nothing on the scale of Eclipse comming from Microsoft. Additionally, IBM has stated they aren't going to use the pattent club to destroy open projects while Microsoft does not make such assurances and even gives reason to believe they will sue projects that they feel infringe out of existance.

      I put Sun in between IBM and Microsoft. The good thing is that Sun is making moves that it wants to out IBM IBM.

      --
      A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
  13. You can't have it both ways. by winkydink · · Score: 5, Insightful
    People gripe when big, evil corporations develop proprietary code and then when these corporations open it up, they gripe that there must be a hidden agenda.

    I think some folks just like to gripe.

    Opening this code will dovetail nicely with IBM becoming more of a services-focused company. When BigCo wants a project implemented & maintained using open source, IBM will be there to lend a hand (for a price of course).

    --

    "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

    1. Re:You can't have it both ways. by torinth · · Score: 2, Insightful

      People gripe when big, evil corporations develop proprietary code and then when these corporations open it up, they gripe that there must be a hidden agenda.

      I think some folks just like to gripe.

      Or else maybe there's more than one 'people' out there. But whatever, gripe away.

    2. Re:You can't have it both ways. by DeepHurtn! · · Score: 1
      Maybe people have just been screwed over by big companies too many times to give them their unquestioning loyalty. I think that that is a good thing. It wasn't too long ago that IBM was just another "big, evil corporation", and things could change again.

      This is a situation where IBM's goals and the open source community's coincidentally meet, and nothing more. Yes, supporters of open source software should be happy about that and develop as productive a relationship with IBM as possible, but it doesn't mean we should turn our critical faculties off.

  14. This is a good move, by robyannetta · · Score: 5, Interesting
    As we learned in The Art of War by Sun Tzu, to win the war, make as many allies as possible.

    IBM learned early on that if you have the Linux community backing a multi-billion dollar corporate entity like themselves, they stand a helluva good chance toppling that Redmond, Washington company they don't like.

    They have my vote.

    --
    - Just my $0.02, take with a grain of salt, your mileage may vary.
    1. Re:This is a good move, by MicroBerto · · Score: 1
      Great book, I recommend it to all of you. It's just cool.

      Anyway, I really think IBM is just using SF's free bandwidth :) hopefully they contribute! I didn't RTFA though, just wanted to comment on the awesomeness of The Art of War

      --
      Berto
    2. Re:This is a good move, by HiThere · · Score: 1

      I'm sure they're "just using" sourceforge...but sourceforge exists to be used, and they require that any code they host have a Open License. (And if I read correctly, this time IBM is choosing to use the GPL.)

      So that's fine. Sourceforge is being used as it wants to be used, and IBM is licensing things properly. And contributing the source.

      I'm certain that everyone has other agendas that are being satisfied by their actions, but that's not new. So does everyone. We trust that the existing safeguards will suffice. If they won't, then we were toast regardless of IBM's actions.

      P.S.: Centralizations like Sourceforge do worry me. They make things more convenient, but they also represent centralizations of power. This generation of management may be fine, but what about the next generation?

      The best defense that we have devised are the GPL and other open licenses. We hope it will suffice, but we know that we can't depend on it. Without the community taking notice when someone threatens it, it will not endure by itself, and this is a big weakness. What better protection there could be, however, isn't obvious.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    3. Re:This is a good move, by bladesjester · · Score: 1

      Okay, pardon me as I bristle at the mistake you make on the Art of War. Sun-tzu wrote that one's real competition is the closer enemy, not the strongest of a more distant field.

      This does not mean to make as many allies as possible. It means that you support "competitors" who are not really in your field in such a manner that you do not increase their power, because increasing their power could make them a threat to you.

      This allows you to focus more closely on the real competition by placating those who would possibly interfere in minor ways until you can turn your attention to them...

      --
      Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
  15. Because I love a good flame war by Kludge · · Score: 1, Troll

    One industry executive who requested not to be named said that IBM's push into PHP and scripting reflects IBM's disillusionment with the Java standardisation process and the industry's inability to make Java very easy to use.

    "IBM's been so fed up with Java that they've been looking for alternatives for years," the executive said. "They want people to build applications quickly that tap into IBM back-ends... and with Java, it just isn't happening."

    It took them this long?

    1. Re:Because I love a good flame war by terror_duck · · Score: 1
      Regarless of starting a flame war or not, that quote is interesting and a bit contradictory. I'm assuming they're fed up with Java on the front-end side of things (i.e. ditch JSP's) so they can make it easier to tap into the back-ends which are heavily Java based or have Java hooks (entire WebSphere family, DB2, Cloudscape/Derby, Domino, etc).

      I don't think everyone at IBM is fed up with Java

    2. Re:Because I love a good flame war by pixel-fodder · · Score: 1


      IBM are not fed up with Java - their whole WebSphere business is built on the success of Java.


      IBM do not like the fact that they do not *OWN* Java - their competitor does - Sun.

  16. A great saying.. by Roliverio · · Score: 2, Funny

    The enemy of my enemy, it's my friend :-D

  17. RPG by nearlygod · · Score: 1

    Finally... An RPG section!

    --
    The Tools Of Ignorance wanna be a tool?
  18. OS/2 ??!! by BitwiseX · · Score: 3, Funny

    God I hope they put the source code for OS/2 up.. I could use a good laugh. ;)

    1. Re:OS/2 ??!! by ettlz · · Score: 1

      As far as I understand, that's part-owned by Microsoft. Unless SCO went and bought it.

    2. Re:OS/2 ??!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Typo? Education is not spelled l-a-u-g-h.

    3. Re:OS/2 ??!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually the source code to OS/2 would be extremely useful in a number of ways. For example OS/2 LAN SERVER running on a one-way pentium3 1Ghz is an order of magnitude faster at serving up files than Samba/Linux running on a quad pentium4 Xeon.

    4. Re:OS/2 ??!! by Ryan+Stortz · · Score: 1

      It'd also go a long way to help the WINE project.

      --
      Bugs are just features that have been fixed.
  19. freshmeat.net by KingBahamut · · Score: 1

    Hurry up IBM, go clone those to FM.

    --
    "God of Rock, thank you for this chance to kick ass. "
  20. Then again... by Ulric · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Microsoft Contributes To Open Source Site

    1. Re:Then again... by StonyUK · · Score: 1

      Yeah look, they contributed those little green arrow icons! :-)

    2. Re:Then again... by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Only if they get to define what constitutes a contribution. (And what constitutes Open Source.)

      For each example, look at who did the official donation. Then look at the license chosen. Then ask yourself "What does this imply?"

      In one case the license wasn't anything anyone reasonable would call open.
      In another case the license was open, but the contribution was by people working inside of MS, rather than by the company. But any patents involved were owned by the company. (Neat trick, no?)
      In one case the software involved was only useful in a MSWind environment. (Other environments already had ways of doing the same thing that weren't dependent on the MS environment.)

      Etc.

      I haven't examined the nature of every "donation" they've ever made, but I've certainly checked many of them, and I've been underwhelmed by the quality of the donations.

      (And I've been quite careful in each case NOT to look at the code, and NOT to agree to an EULA or an NDA. I know how much I trust them, I just wanted to check whether I was merely being biased, or whether my bias had reason behind it. I decided that it did.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  21. Ah, but look where their investments really are by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    in China and India - read the subtext of the commercials where the guy shows up with a Thing in a Box that he's patenting and needs to "get big".

    however, there's no free rides - and Information wants to be Free.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:Ah, but look where their investments really are by tijnbraun · · Score: 1

      I often see this quote "Information wants to be free". But I really do not understand why that should be so.

      I would assume information "wants" to be duplicated in a darwian sense. But why should it want to be free?

      DNA prefers to be nicely protected in the membrane of the nucleus, but I'm probably stretching my own analogy to much here.

    2. Re:Ah, but look where their investments really are by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Yes, information does want to be free.

      And, to use your DNA analogy, as the Bioinformatician that I am, there's a heck of a lot of PCR going on out there.

      A barrier to information makes sense when it can't leak out somewhere else.

      Virii make use of this vulnerability - which is also a strength if used wisely.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    3. Re:Ah, but look where their investments really are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DNA prefers to be nicely protected in the membrane of the nucleus...

      Yet, it surrounds every environment where we've been -- free.

  22. What projects? by HogGeek · · Score: 2, Informative
    I tried doing a search for both people and project that contain IBM, but nothing solid.

    Is there a list of software that they donated? I'm curious if its "newer" stuff, of old stuff they no longer user, nor implement themselves...

  23. I'm presuming Performance Explorer is one of them by Rocko+Bonaparte · · Score: 1

    There was a tool brought up in some Jikes research called "Performance Explorer" that profiles Java applications across time. It uses a variety of performance counters, both from the OS, the JVM, and hardware; painting a very complete profile of the system. I've been waiting to get my mittens on it.

    I think the downside is that it probably only works for Jikes, and only PowerPC right now. If it turns out the front-end is very useful, and implementing the performance counter drivers is easy, then I'm sure it'll pick up some steam. I was told it'd be out at the end of this month, but maybe they're bundling it in with those 30 sourceforge projects.

    I wonder how this works with the IBM CPL. It's generally an open-source license, with a disclaimer that IBM won't be held responsible for what happens.

    --
    No I'm not trolling.
  24. CVS Status by YodaToo · · Score: 2, Informative

    Unfortunately all of their projects will show zero files committed until they get this Nov. 2003 issue fixed.

    --
    This way to the egress...
  25. IBM just upped their SourceForge contributions... by ulatekh · · Score: 1

    ...up yours!

    (OK, OK, I'll send Johnny Cash's estate a check for that joke...)

    --
    "Once we've identified and embraced our sickness, we'll have strength...and that's when we get dangerous." - John Waters
  26. Re:A great saying.. - not always true... by RocketJeff · · Score: 1
    The enemy of my enemy, it's my friend :-D
    That kind of thinking can/does cause problems.

    The US backed Saddam Hussein's Iraq in its war against Iran because Iran was the enemy.

    The US backed the Taliban (as a part of the Mujahideen) against the USSR.

    Those are just 2 of many examples (just the ones that come to mind when I hear that saying) - there are many other examples of the problem with this saying (from many countries/companies/families/etc).

    Note: I don't think that IBM is/will become an enemy of Linux/OSS (they have enough valid reasons to back them), it's just that the OP's saying has problems.

    Also: This is actually an old Middle-Eastern saying that is usually translated as: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

  27. Great news!...no worries ( at least for now) by L1nux_L0ser83 · · Score: 1

    it seems that "big blue" is finally understanding how Linux and open source is going to change computing. In the last few months there has been lots of news with IBM opening up to the open source community and this news along with their new business model which highly implements linux/and open source. I belive this may be a hugh push forward for linux to become widely accepted. That, and for IBM to get back some ground in the industry.

    --
    Good Karma, Bad Karma, doesnt matter to me... I'm still going to say whats on my mind!
  28. PHP... by einhverfr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I program in Perl, Python, and PHP. And I work on large (30k line) programs in both Perl and PHP.

    PHP is a good language for certain classes of applications including web applications in general. But additionally, you can preprocess any text-based file with it too. This means:

    1) Preprocessing configuration files is easy
    2) Web apps are easy to build in PHP
    3) PHP has a number of features that place it *way* ahead of Microsoft's ASP for enterprise applications. Variable-based includes for example.

    That being said, trying to write system administration scripts in PHP is like using a crescent wrench as a hammer. It might sorta work but it is neither elegant nor optimal. Perl and python are much better at this.

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    1. Re:PHP... by XMyth · · Score: 1

      You mention ASP. Have you looked at ASP.NET?

    2. Re:PHP... by einhverfr · · Score: 1

      I have looked into ASP.Net.

      Personally I don't really like it. It has its uses and I understand why it was designed the way it was, but it really looks to me like warmed over Java to me. Note that I am not a fan of Java so this is not a compliment.

      PHP is powerful because it allows you to basically preprocess text files. This can have all sorts of uses from building configuration file templates to web application development. ASP gives you the same capability but is quite a bit less powerful (for example you can't include a file with a name based on the value of a variable in ASP).

      PHP however suffers from the programming efforts of many people who write unreadible/unmaintainable code. It is not the language's fault though....

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    3. Re:PHP... by MsGeek · · Score: 1

      ASP was a total rip-off of PHP2. How far has PHP evolved since v.2? As with most MS "embrace and extend" projects, Active Server Pages haven't really evolved much, .NET connectivity or no .NET connectivity.

      --
      Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
  29. I wish there was RHP instead of PHP by HelloKitty · · Score: 1

    I wish there was RHP instead of PHP... The R would be for "ruby" of coarse.

    Having been programming Ruby now for several months, I prefer it to Perl and the very similar PHP... Just go read the first few pages of the ruby book for why this language is so much cooler than others.

    PHP is awsome for integrating HTML and code with their syntax though, and I'd love to see this in Ruby....

    Maybe it already exists? Anyone?

    --
    music - http://www.subatomicglue.com
    1. Re:I wish there was RHP instead of PHP by gregarican · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is this. I am a Ruby convert as well. I think it's so much cleaner than other scripting languages. Most of it "just makes sense." I personally am not using it not so much as a web app framework as a replacement for my company's plethora of ASP work. Using eRuby on Apache I hope to keep things moving along...

    2. Re:I wish there was RHP instead of PHP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoa, where have you been?

      Check out Ruby on Rails NOW .. before you get contaminated with PHP thinking.

      You will be glad you did.

    3. Re:I wish there was RHP instead of PHP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you should have read more than the first few pages of that book. :)

    4. Re:I wish there was RHP instead of PHP by HelloKitty · · Score: 1

      Right you are. I missed that part. :) Thanks, that's going to be cool.

      --
      music - http://www.subatomicglue.com
  30. don't be evil by Khalid · · Score: 1

    Well ! I am happy to see that the "don't be evil" mantra initiated by google is more and more seen as a sound business practice. IBM is not completly "evil free" :) but they are slowly changing thanks in great part to Lou GERSTNER who as has completly changed the company's soul and business.

    I hope to see more and more corporations being "less evil" AND succeeding so they will be imitated by other ones.

    Maybe even one day we will see a "lesser evil" Microsoft although I am afaid we will have to wait a bit more for this one.

  31. What about the cloudscape contest? by stm2 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This may seems OT, I am not sure. But IBM sponsored a contest in Sourceforge (with iPODs as prices). It was supposed to announce winners Feb 18 but I still don know what happened. My JAVA-fu were good according to IBM, but I still didn got any notification about who won.
    BTW, I didn need to code JAVA at all, just use a IBM tutorial-game as example and soved without programing :)

    --
    DNA in your Linux: DNALinux
    1. Re:What about the cloudscape contest? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're stupid. The contest didn't expect you to code Java.

  32. Quality of Projects by Dana+Morris · · Score: 1

    As an IBM employee I can take an educated guess that the projects that IBM has moved to SourceForge are probably fairly useful. Someone in one of the replies mentioned that ICU is one of these projects - ICU is a strategic component of almost every major IBM Software product and to my knowledge is the basis for most of Java's underlying internationalization code. Other projects that have been open sourced in the past 5 years are things such as XML4J, XML4C, XSLT4J, Eclipse, and Cloudscape. I for one who favor the IBM strategy of furthering both Linux and Open Source.

    1. Re:Quality of Projects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Judging from your UID, your boss came to you this afternoon and asked you to post something nice about IBM on this "site called slashdot".

    2. Re:Quality of Projects by jgardner100 · · Score: 1

      ouch, are you suggesting they are engaging in a marketing exercise, never, they couldn't now they are open source's friend (and would you like to buy a bridge?)

  33. Quality, MS, lack of. by AKosygin · · Score: 1

    "MS lack of no quality."

    There.
    Okay, I tried hard, but I cannot say it with a straight face, but I said it.

  34. What's with the domain name? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    What exactly is www.crn.com? The least they could do is use a foreign character set.

    Hey, I'm an anonymous coward...I ain't clicking on it.

  35. Re:I'm presuming Performance Explorer is one of th by saugart · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm at IBM Watson, down the hall from one of the Performance Explorer (PE) guys, and I just went up to ask about it. PE did indeed go over, and it's licensed under the IBM CPL, which is very similar to the Apache Public License (APL). The CPL isn't just "generally an open-source license," it's been certified as one by the OSDI. One of the authors of PE is a graduate student, and he's been pretty busy with his own life right now. It probably won't make it out at the end of this month. We're nudging the authors, anyway. They just want to get the code into better shape for release. PE is a sub-project of Jikes RVM, a free VM for Java project I develop on, and it's at http://jikesrvm.sourceforge.net . I'm sorry to say that, right now, the PE directory in our CVS repository is just a placeholder.

  36. List of projects by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 4, Informative

    AIX Toolbox - http://sf.net/projects/aixtoolbox/

    Bluetooth ad-hoc network simulator - http://sf.net/projects/bluehoc/

    Dynamic Probe Class Library - http://sf.net/projects/dpcl/

    Journaled File System - http://sf.net/projects/jfs/

    IBM Jikes Compiler for the Java Language - http://sf.net/projects/jikes/

    Jikes RVM - http://sf.net/projects/jikesrvm/

    Java POS Config Loader - http://sf.net/projects/jposloader/

    Toolbox for Java/JTOpen - http://sf.net/projects/jt400/

    openCryptoki - http://sf.net/projects/opencryptoki/

    LTC Linux Kernel Performance Project - http://sf.net/projects/linuxperf/

    LSID (Life Science Identifier) - http://sf.net/projects/lsid/

    Memory Expansion Technology - http://sf.net/projects/mxt/

    OpenSSH on AIX - http://sf.net/projects/openssh-aix/

    Standards Based Linux Instrumentation - http://sf.net/projects/sblim/

    UDDI4J Java Class Library - http://sf.net/projects/uddi4j/

    Web Services Description Language for Java -
    http://sf.net/projects/wsdl4j/

    ACP Modem (Mwave) Driver for Linux - http://sf.net/projects/acpmodem/

    International Components for Unicode - http://sf.net/projects/icu/

    Dynamic Probes - http://sf.net/projects/dprobes/

    TCL extension library for IBM Speech Manager Applications Programming
    Interface (SMAPI) - http://sf.net/projects/tclsmapi/

    TCK for JWSDL ( JWSDLTCK ) - http://sf.net/projects/jwsdltck/

    (from the SourceForge post on that @ http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=44 9291)

  37. Quote out of context by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The quote you mentioned is horribly out of context.

    The original quote essentially said:
    "Information wants to be free -- secrets have a way of getting out....Information wants to be expensive -- knowledge is power."

    The essay essentially said that there are two competing forces when it comes to information and that things will get very messy in the years to come.

  38. Wrong URL for MS Research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is the correct URL.
    http://www.apple.com/

  39. Re:I'm presuming Performance Explorer is one of th by saugart · · Score: 1
    The first version of PE is now checked into the Jikes RVM CVS repository.

    I apologize for the rotten formatting in the ancestor to this post. As you can see, I am now using the <P> tag.