And you are dense. You realize his little feel good organization DOESN'T make money off of software. It makes money investing in Dow Chemicals, Tyco, and other wonderful polluters. He also invests heavily in medical companies who keep those cures and treatments out of reach of the poor. He invests in financial institutions guilty of predatory lending practices.
He isn't using the money to help anyone but himself. Would you believe how great of a person I am if I opened an emergency gunshot treatment center in downtown (BigCity) and then armed the gang members so I would get more victims to look good treating?
You are right...it is aweful that it was economics. We should all still be slaving along as British Empire colonies. I hate to break it to you, but the idea that everyone should be able to make their own money IS philosophical when compared to the status quo of the time. Taxation without representation and all that...hell...most of the British colonies were happy with taxation without brutal killing.
There are numerous sources. LA Times and Seattle Times have both run stories on it, among others. They have investments in predatory loaning companies, Dow Chemichals (the fine owners of Union Carbide), etc etc. The killer article that I read (I was actually unaware of the depth of the sheisty dealings of the Gates Foundation until recently trying to track it down again). They had investments in a chemical plant that was leading cause of health problems in an area of Africa, which of course they spent tons of money to treat people in the area being sure to smile for the camera and ultimately getting the whole Man of the Year award.
I'm not going to sit here and recap every story that has touched on this just because you think I am trolling. It was all over for a while, and personally I don't care if you don't believe me. Might as well go on about how Yahoo did nothing wrong by turning the dissenters in, after all, they were following the laws in the applicable country right? I mean its not like the companies Gates Foundation invests in is actually violating the laws of the countries they operate in...thats why they choose to operate there...so they can spew toxic shit all over and not worry about the pesky government giving them any flack
This is rich. Yahoo gets dissenters thrown in prison. Yahoo then generates PR by funding these organizations. Somewhat like MS spending so much time/money in Africa helping with medical problems...that are tied to the chemical plants that the Gates Foundation invests in. Generate your own PR opportunities. Genius!
I would hardly say placid. I am a very angry, opinionated, and outspoken person on this kind of topic. The key difference is I have learned to sort out which groups of cattle will mindlessly follow the herd and engage in dicussion about as meaningful as a parrot. They are the group that believe "flip-flop" is universal weakness, rather than changing of belief through introduction of new information. They cling desparately to emotional responses of "us vs them" or only one team gets to be considered the bad guy. They can't seem to accept that war and other ugliness is generally caused by both sides doing bad things. I will put the fire to people who go on with their Islamofacists are out to get us, flag waving, we're #1 clowns just as fast as I will to people who cling to the deranged idea that we are living in some kind of facist hell of oppression. Freedom isn't free (costs a $1.05), and it takes alot of angry patriotic people to make sure that 1. No outside force can harm us (strong military) and 2. No inside force can cause us to implode (educated and active populace). Guess which one we are missing:) Unfortunately, once the people become too dependent on the government, the angry patriotic people trying to address #2 are ignored or imprisoned. Thankfully we still seem to have some time before the imprisoned part kicks up here...but time is certainly running down.
I also apologize for forgetting sarcasm tags. I agree with you, but my point is there is no sense in wagging your finger or explaining to the propogandists the reality of the situation. Propoganda operates on emotional beliefs not rational beliefs. No amount of logic, explaining, or wiki links will change their emotional investment in their belief.
I think all propoganda is deplorable as it rarely has any kind of objective truth to it. Herman Goering was on the money in his quote about the common people do not want war. Propoganda's only purpose is to drive the fear and nationalistic behavior of people into justifying war. It also serves an outstanding purpose in keeping people from learning about what really happened or how we got there.
Do I believe the bomb was bad? Absolutely. Do I believe dropping it on civilians was bad? Absolutely. Do I believe that the first one probably had to happen? Probably. Do I believe the 2nd one was a horrific mistake? Most likely. Do I belive nuclear disarmament is a silly and pointless venture? Absolutely a moronic, pitiful, and ultimately futile attempt at closing Pandora's Box.
Cat is out of the bag folks. Humans do bad things to eachother and frequently only cease doing bad things to eachother when the cost of getting caught or retaliation is to high. Welcome to reality...we can't all hold hands and sing kumbaya. What we can do is attempt to minimize the damages by squelching silly propoganda crap and understanding that bad shit happens, violence is unfortunately sometimes necessary, and we need to work to prevent it from happening again rather than pointing fingers and beating the drums of war. I'm sure Stalin, or Hitler, or everyones favorite 'wronry' Kim Jong Il would have stopped murdering and oppressing people if we just asked nicely, threw some flowers, and sang on their doorsteps... To unilaterly point the finger at one side for war is stupid, ignorant, and is only self serving rhetoric used to fire up the people to start the war machine up again.
Oh hush. These type of people have no concept of cultural differences and are just as ignorant and arrogant as the people they pretend to oppose. Seriously... Oh no it's just the evil conniving Americans! Yeah... well those evil conniving Americans weren't teaching 12 yr olds how to operate artillery instead of sending them to recess at school. The Japanese culture was entirely different, shame is worse than death, and completely alien to American thinking. Americans were horrified by this, because to an American shame is not worse than death. There is a HUGE cultural significance in bringing baseball to Japan. We were giving them sports heroes to follow instead of warrior heroes to emulate.
Go ask Korea or some of the other surrounding neighbors about how vicious Japan was to fight against. The Japanese believed they were doing you a favor by killing you instead of letting you return home shamed. They didn't understand how Americans could surrender. To them surrendering made you a non person.
I swear...I am pretty pissed about a lot of things that America has done over the years, but this is one of those areas that people need to wake up, read their history, and attempt to understand the cultural differences that lead to that horrific event. "America is eeevil" card gets so overplayed, now that we actually need it to fix things no one takes it seriously. Catapult the propoganda and all... But hey, good luck explaining that to the folks you are chastising for believing the anti-American propoganda. That's kinda the point of propoganda.:)
Uhm he does expect the government email to get monitored. Hence the two main problems here. They quit archiving them, and they got in trouble for using outside email to conduct their shenanagins so that they wouldn't get burned by the government archiving and monitoring.
Somewhat resource intensive mattered 10 years ago. When my phone has the same processing power that an F-16 uses to fly...well I think the resource intensive debate is getting silly. Yes it is intensive, but the machines we have today aren't exactly short on the resources to make this extremely capable. In fact Sidewinder firewalls already do a good deal of this type of stuff. To the best of my knowledge they are the only proxy based firewall floating around commercially right now. Packet Inspection took off because it took less resources...and now they just slap more wizbang nonsense feature on top of these types of firewalls to make use of the excess resources. Now we have those resources and so many people are still trying to make packet inspection better rather than going back to the better design that we now have the resources to effectively implement.
Are you serious? Put U.S. businesses at a disadvantage? Are you fucking insane? You are aware of the fact that child labor laws exist here for damned good reason... Same with polution... and any number of other disgusting and disturbing practices that businesses has proven themselves quite capable and willing of when no one is there to stop them. You know...things like slavery, and company towns, and all those fun things that America had to deal with and thus created those laws against them. So all of this is just a horrible disadvantage to US companies abroad? We are shooting ourselves in the foot by not competing using slavery, mass pollution, sweat shops, bribery, murder, extortion, etc? Wow...just wow... Union Carbide must be your freaking hero for what they got away with in Bhopal.
5. an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected.
In fact it is ironic so long as you don't accept the notion that all anti-gay Republicans are in fact gay. Now...it is less ironic now than it was originally because 2 more Republicans have gotten busted soliciting gay sex in the last 2 months or so. So you could argue that the outcome of events IS what is expected now. Either way it is still damned funny that each one of the clowns voted to make discriminating against gays A-OK and then they get busted soliciting gay sex whether you expected them to do that or not.
Riiight. You are going to talk about lawyers and judges in a nation that has been grabbing people and taking them to foreign countries to "interrogate" them by not torturing (waterboarding is perfectly legal and not torture remember?). At least that poor Canadian guy with a difficult to pronounce name got a nice heartfelt apology from some of our congress critters. If you plan on packing up and leaving, good luck, they have been putting peaceful protesters names on international criminal lists to keep them from leaving.
You are also talking about a nation who's ineffective Congress had a vote to determine that illegal wiretaps were illegal. Along with multiple judges deaming it unconstitutional. Yet none of that has been stopped, and in fact, they are working on granting immunity for everyone who did anything illegal in the process.
Good luck explaining that to anyone who matters. They fell for all of Cheney's lines. "I can't talk about that, Executive privlidge!" then turning around saying "Well, that doesn't really apply to me, I'm not part of the executive".
Remember, every citizen is a terrorist in waiting! To question the government is unpatriotic. That means if you don't do exactly what they told you you are a terrorist. Never forget. You are either with us or against us! Only a vast and powerful government with lots of tax dollars can possibly protect you from the ever looming daily threat of dying in a terrorist attack. Look how good they have done with all those tax dollars stopping things like smoking, drinking, driving, boating, or getting sick from killing us!
Except this is state secret stuff. You can't discuss classified information with a spouse. Still shenanagins, but I don't think they would have any trouble nailing him for it.
It has been done. Here and here are good places to start. You may even look up Bayer warcrimes while you are at it. We don't have humans that can live 300 years and run 10,000 miles at a clip... Wonder no more at the possibilities...
I take offense to that. I have a very kind and polite tree stump in my front yard that is arguably much more intelligent than "vaginal_flatulance" has demonstrated themselves to be.
No, the person you have become is an arrogant jackass with a superiority complex that insults people who disagree for not agreeing with the "obvious" evidence that you interpret in your own fashion. You write cute little poetic diatribe about how smart you are and how other people should choose to be smart when you really mean people should choose to agree with you and anyone who doesn't is ignoring the obvious and is a ignorant fool. Your attitude, like every other UFO nut I have dealt with, is consistent with the same psychological patterns of the most vocal bible thumper. "The evidunce is here, just reed it!"
As far as your evidence. For fucks sake, this thread is in a story about how the government faked a press release and you are going to talk about how the public record press release stuff is even remotely trustworthy? The entire government, military or not, has changed their damned story on so many mundane events when people didn't buy the first story. That assumes that they weren't changing story intentionally to keep the water murky and keep the conspiracy nuts chasing their tails instead of actually, you know, investigating for real. Your "obvious" evidence requires acceptance of breaking every physical science law we have discovered and you call ME the ignoramus? Nonaerodynamic objects flying in atmospheric conditions, inter(planetary/stellar/galactic/dimensional) travel, and so on. We seem to agree that the government is quite capable of lying, and manipulating stories, yet you somehow twist this into they are covering up alien invasion nonsense with your emotional grip on the broken science of it all.
No sir, you are not educated and open. You are an elitist prick. You think anyone who doesn't agree with your warped UFO evidence peddling writers is a fool. It is easier to fake evidence of aliens than it is to cover it up, and you buy the books, and the marketing, and fall right into the multi-million dollar industry of alien chasing conspiracy theorists. And once again no...I'm not frothing at anything. I am still rather amused by your little superiority complex and your upset by my "redneck trailer trash" writings. But I am done. You really haven't offered anything new in a while other than "You write bad! I am smarter" and cute little poetic paragraphs about living free and open and learning. Well friend, learn to quit being such a elitist jackass, learn to accept the large possibility that none of this crap is extraterrestrial, and learn your fucking science because to jump to extraterrestrial sources that rely on undiscovered or junk science with such a HUGE field of terrestrial possibilities explained rationally by proven science and standard government secrecy is hardly proper application of scientific theory.
I am interested to know...since the evidence so "obviously" supports your UFO theories and nothing mundane... Care explain how to sort out how you choose who to trust? I mean really...if the governments are hiding things, why the hell would they release the truth with FOIA papers? Do you really think they all sit back and say "Well damn, they got us now, we have to tell the truth". So...the sources of the information are highly suspect anyways. The reasons behind why they would lie are highly obfuscated. Major breakthroughs in aviation are HUGE threats to "the bad guys" of any nation involved and they are going to go to extreme lengths to protect that. Even so far as to paint some silly alien invasion picture to keep the water nice and murky and virtually impossible to sort out what may or may not be the truth. You obviously believe the various world governments are capable of doing this, of this mass cover up, but why are you so convinced that you are right and they aren't playing you? Again, go read the Cold War history...they aren't stupid...they got REALLY REALLY good at these mind games. You can't possibly believe the information they provide is worthwhile or accurate in any way. Take the Air Force officers you trot out as confessing they were told to lie. Well what if they were ordered to confess that they lied? The guys involved at high levels of psyop stuff are way smarter than the average bear. Conspiracy theorists are the governments best friend, they cues for insanity so well, and they make such a racket over things that it allows the real shit to slide right on by.
Now...as far as your unending insults to my intelligunce fer not typin lik you want. I will first point out that your language/intelligence nonsense is completely garbage and was debunked in the 60s I believe. I'm too lazy to go dig out the specific reference at the moment, but that leads to my second point. I am not exactly investing a great deal of energy into this, as I said, it amuses me. I have no intention to try and take apart your claims point by point, it would take far to much energy then I care to expend on a silly belief on slashdot. Also...as I have said, I think you are wrong, are emotionally invested in your belief, and are reading the evidence wrong....you however insist that I am just dumb and ignorant and it is some huge personal failing that I don't agree with you presented with the same information. Also, no I'm not going to go buy some UFO conspiracy theorists book to "see the evidence"...not exactly a non biased source now is it?
But listening to you cry about how more educated you are and proper you are while going on about aliens on slashdot is too amusing! I'm glad you have done so much reading, now maybe you should study some of the technology involved. Back in the time you are talking about Radar was sketchy at best and was nowhere near the accuracy that it is today, and even today there are all manner of stupid problems with it. But hey, don't take my word for it, its not like I have ever been around the equipment...oh wait... Really I don't care. I am just amused that you seem to think you are so superior and get all in a huff about this. Which has pretty much been the same pattern for every UFO nut I have talked to. I'm interested to see your evidence of "turn on a dime" radar since that isn't exactly how it works, and eye witness turn on a dime is hardly evidence of shit. I have seen B2s "disappear" because at the right distance and height those giant flat triangles become terribly difficult to see even in daylight. Also, I didn't say jet, aviation doesn't mean jet, though jets are certainly more likely for the faster observed things, we have a whole slew of things that fly that aren't jet powered. But no, a UFO theorist is not the same as an alien believer, you are so latched on to the conspiracy alien bit that you are not a theorist. UFO theorist would be far more concerned with the terrestrial sources before leaping to "well no one is coming clean about ownership so it MUST be the aliens". By the way, the russians were so spooked by one of those things that they shot it down and captured an American pilot. After which point the US had a really hard time with their denial of the U2s existence.
I like you. You are funny. You assume I am angry over your assertions and like every other OMG spaceships nuts I have ever dealt with you assume because I don't agree with any of your silly assertions that I must be in denial and angry. I have actually looked at quite a bit of it, and it just doesn't pass the BS test. Sure you can string all that shit together in some strange assertions to prove space ships, but the probability in it being mundane is much higher. You assert that we couldn't have possibly had experimental things that could have been observed, and then insist that it must be space ships. I have also seen plenty of other evidence that gives far more rational explanations. I don't know where you get the 'can't lie under hypnosis' crap, but boy would that be a doozy... You are so hung up on OMG aliens that you can't look past your own silly assertions to accept anything mundane, it must be super mega world wide conspiracy. Because just a handful of people "in the know" could keep a secret that big from the entire worlds population right? Now, go read what little glimpses of the secret world of aviation that have come out over the years. Radar has hardly been an exact and perfect thing really ever. Again, you assume you are some kind of expert on all of these subjects and I am just some fool clinging to my mundane explanations when it MUST be more.
Your type is so amusing to me. I have worked for one of your type before. I got to hear long rants about Area 51, and the aliens, and other such silly bullshit like we are stealing their technology! Because fiber optics, for example, is just so impossible for us to figure out we must have stolen it. I swear... Go look up Skunkworks and things like that. The cutting edge military aviation technology we have in the air today is ancient stuff. UAVs didn't just spring up from nowhere, nor did stealth technology...the shit was being developed back in the 60s. Do you really believe we just had a sudden epiphany with this kind of technology and managed to produce it overnight? The work on the first nuclear bomb started 30 years before the first one was even tested. Maybe I should build you a laser to kill aliens in the desert...I have been asked to do this by other UFO nuts in the past...you could probably use one too. Tin foil hat on! And for the record no, I'm not frothing, though I'm sure your imagery demands that I am. I am actually quite amused, and I know nothing I say will be taken seriously for a second because you are so attached to your UFO theories and the idea that anyone that disagrees with you is angry by your "logical" assertions of "fact". I personally think you are interpreting the evidence in a very bizarre fashion. Once upon a time we thought lightning was supernatural, that flight was impossible, that you could drill holes in peoples heads to let out the crazy. Spin your wheels all you want, you aren't doing any harm to me or anyone else. I just think you are amusing.
Now, I don't dismiss the idea that alien spacecraft may exist. In fact I hope it is true, the universe would be a terribly lonely place if we are the only ones in the vast nothingness. However, the idea that they are visiting and getting caught and there is some massive global conspiracy/cover up is goofy at best. The evidence can certainly bet twisted to try and support the OMG aliens approach, but it has been FAR from proven, and the mundane boring explanation is ultimately far more likely. Go study the cold war era stuff. Both sides did some AMAZING things, very very clever shit, the mundane explanation was still ultimately the true explanation, but it was a very interesting mundane explanation. X-2 X-15 U-2 SR-71 Sputnik (I wish I had more russian examples but I'm not entirely up on their side of things, other than they were FAR more gutsy and acted with far less regard for human risk in their experimental aviation).
Ooh...didn't think of that. I was just making another example of the people can't do history thing:) To be fair, there are quite a few problems with the whole JFK assassination thing. Conspiracies in general are easy to untangle if you follow the money, it only gets difficult when noname crazy people are involved in events, its hard to distinguish the acts of a lone crazy from something bigger. It is no secret that people in power will do things to remain in power, often illegal and immoral things that they will try to hide because revealing them would get them removed from power. It isn't some vast conspiracy, its just a bunch of greedy fools working "together" while trying to stab each other at the same time. Human greed is such that some super conspiracy group could not exist, their own individual motives would eventually cause it to collapse anyways. If, however, such a group DID work past that ugly bit of human nature, then quite frankly, they would probably be more qualified to run the world anyways.
You really are a special kind of crazy. So...I will go ahead and clarify something. UFO - Unidentified Flying Object - EXTREMELY COMMON! Space ships - What the hell ever crazy guy. Yes, there are tons of UFOs sighted, documented, and whatnot. Most are nothing significant. As for your photo nonsense...Photoshop to the rescue! Police, pilots, military officers, and ATC guys may not "play silly hoaxes" but they certainly have a LONG and respected tradition of making monumental mistakes.
Oh...and method of travel claimed by the aliens themselves?! How the fuck do the aliens claim anything when their existence is FAR from proven and you go on to argue that abductions are likely lies. As far as test flights being ordered to buzz things...you have CLEARLY never EVER met a fighter pilot...let alone a fighter pilot selected for the uber secret top of the field test pilot designation. You will be hard pressed to find a fighter pilot that HASN'T done something monumentally stupid they were told not to do, but did it anyways because having $20million+ worth of high tech weapon at your exclusive control does things to your ego.
Unexplained does not mean lies. Unexplained so not mean aliens. It could be that normal old boring classified stuff, you know...the stuff where there are no crazy spaceship driving aliens darting about. It could be no one is sure and they don't want to lose face. ATC is a VERY serious job, and if something happens that should have been caught it is a very very ugly situation and I have no doubt they would cover it up. O'hare airport did a bangup job of covering up the fact that their ATC folks were working 16hr days getting 4hrs of sleep when they managed to direct the takeoff of a jumbo jet through the tail of another jumbo jet taxiing on the runway. Its days like this that I realize my paranoia really isn't all that bad...folks like you are a whole different class of crazy.
It stuns me that you would attack my "armchair logic" yet justify this nonsense with the notion of interdimensional travel over the more likely boring mundane explanation of people are not omnipotent, lie to save face, or the multitude of infinitely more likely explanations of any of these events. Nope...interdimensional travel exists and your logic is dumb is your answer... Wow...just wow...
"required to keep records" means about squat. So you are going to tell me that people required to keep records makes it legit? What about the people required to keep records of the cooling systems of the nuclear subs that all just got fired recently for pencil whipping all the reports. Oopsies there. Second...lets do some basic rational thought about the Area 51 business. It is obvious that the military does some pretty secret stuff there...so...uhm...something crashed...big story...cold war...lots of spies...everyone trying to get ahead. Now...a overblown crazy ass alien crash landing story that spreads for wildfire and maintains its "legitimacy" for decades would make the job foreign intelligence agencies MUCH more difficult. But hey, lets not look at the boring and more logical explanations of "ooooh conspiracy!"
That having been said...lets examine aliens. They have mastered one of the following. Interplanetary, Interstellar, Intergalactic, or possibly Interdimensional travel. Now...lets look at us. We have a really solid grasp on stealth technology, and medical imaging, yet can't even reliably get ourselves to our own moon. Now at the very least, even with commercial tools available today, if it was Interplanetary travel we would have a lot more evidence, so it would be safest to assume that it is at the VERY least Interstellar. So...a group that has managed Interstellar travel and avoidance of all the thousands of eyes we have in the sky from hobbyist astronomers are sneaking past, ACCIDENTALLY getting caught flying low over populated areas, and in some accounts performing abductions and odd medical things that are rather primitive even by our standards? Explain to me exactly where ANY of that makes an ounce of sense? For all our advanced imaging we have today even in the hands of joe sixpack, all we ever see are stupid grainy pictures and shadowy nonsense. Now...this doesn't even begin to address the huge multitude of these things that have been proven over and over and over to be silly hoaxes.
Slashdot Mirror
And you are dense. You realize his little feel good organization DOESN'T make money off of software. It makes money investing in Dow Chemicals, Tyco, and other wonderful polluters. He also invests heavily in medical companies who keep those cures and treatments out of reach of the poor. He invests in financial institutions guilty of predatory lending practices.
He isn't using the money to help anyone but himself. Would you believe how great of a person I am if I opened an emergency gunshot treatment center in downtown (BigCity) and then armed the gang members so I would get more victims to look good treating?
You are right...it is aweful that it was economics. We should all still be slaving along as British Empire colonies. I hate to break it to you, but the idea that everyone should be able to make their own money IS philosophical when compared to the status quo of the time. Taxation without representation and all that...hell...most of the British colonies were happy with taxation without brutal killing.
There are numerous sources. LA Times and Seattle Times have both run stories on it, among others. They have investments in predatory loaning companies, Dow Chemichals (the fine owners of Union Carbide), etc etc. The killer article that I read (I was actually unaware of the depth of the sheisty dealings of the Gates Foundation until recently trying to track it down again). They had investments in a chemical plant that was leading cause of health problems in an area of Africa, which of course they spent tons of money to treat people in the area being sure to smile for the camera and ultimately getting the whole Man of the Year award.
I'm not going to sit here and recap every story that has touched on this just because you think I am trolling. It was all over for a while, and personally I don't care if you don't believe me. Might as well go on about how Yahoo did nothing wrong by turning the dissenters in, after all, they were following the laws in the applicable country right? I mean its not like the companies Gates Foundation invests in is actually violating the laws of the countries they operate in...thats why they choose to operate there...so they can spew toxic shit all over and not worry about the pesky government giving them any flack
This is rich. Yahoo gets dissenters thrown in prison. Yahoo then generates PR by funding these organizations. Somewhat like MS spending so much time/money in Africa helping with medical problems...that are tied to the chemical plants that the Gates Foundation invests in. Generate your own PR opportunities. Genius!
I would hardly say placid. I am a very angry, opinionated, and outspoken person on this kind of topic. The key difference is I have learned to sort out which groups of cattle will mindlessly follow the herd and engage in dicussion about as meaningful as a parrot. They are the group that believe "flip-flop" is universal weakness, rather than changing of belief through introduction of new information. They cling desparately to emotional responses of "us vs them" or only one team gets to be considered the bad guy. They can't seem to accept that war and other ugliness is generally caused by both sides doing bad things. I will put the fire to people who go on with their Islamofacists are out to get us, flag waving, we're #1 clowns just as fast as I will to people who cling to the deranged idea that we are living in some kind of facist hell of oppression. Freedom isn't free (costs a $1.05), and it takes alot of angry patriotic people to make sure that 1. No outside force can harm us (strong military) and 2. No inside force can cause us to implode (educated and active populace). Guess which one we are missing :) Unfortunately, once the people become too dependent on the government, the angry patriotic people trying to address #2 are ignored or imprisoned. Thankfully we still seem to have some time before the imprisoned part kicks up here...but time is certainly running down.
I also apologize for forgetting sarcasm tags. I agree with you, but my point is there is no sense in wagging your finger or explaining to the propogandists the reality of the situation. Propoganda operates on emotional beliefs not rational beliefs. No amount of logic, explaining, or wiki links will change their emotional investment in their belief.
I think all propoganda is deplorable as it rarely has any kind of objective truth to it. Herman Goering was on the money in his quote about the common people do not want war. Propoganda's only purpose is to drive the fear and nationalistic behavior of people into justifying war. It also serves an outstanding purpose in keeping people from learning about what really happened or how we got there.
Do I believe the bomb was bad? Absolutely. Do I believe dropping it on civilians was bad? Absolutely. Do I believe that the first one probably had to happen? Probably. Do I believe the 2nd one was a horrific mistake? Most likely. Do I belive nuclear disarmament is a silly and pointless venture? Absolutely a moronic, pitiful, and ultimately futile attempt at closing Pandora's Box.
Cat is out of the bag folks. Humans do bad things to eachother and frequently only cease doing bad things to eachother when the cost of getting caught or retaliation is to high. Welcome to reality...we can't all hold hands and sing kumbaya. What we can do is attempt to minimize the damages by squelching silly propoganda crap and understanding that bad shit happens, violence is unfortunately sometimes necessary, and we need to work to prevent it from happening again rather than pointing fingers and beating the drums of war. I'm sure Stalin, or Hitler, or everyones favorite 'wronry' Kim Jong Il would have stopped murdering and oppressing people if we just asked nicely, threw some flowers, and sang on their doorsteps... To unilaterly point the finger at one side for war is stupid, ignorant, and is only self serving rhetoric used to fire up the people to start the war machine up again.
Oh hush. These type of people have no concept of cultural differences and are just as ignorant and arrogant as the people they pretend to oppose. Seriously... Oh no it's just the evil conniving Americans! Yeah... well those evil conniving Americans weren't teaching 12 yr olds how to operate artillery instead of sending them to recess at school. The Japanese culture was entirely different, shame is worse than death, and completely alien to American thinking. Americans were horrified by this, because to an American shame is not worse than death. There is a HUGE cultural significance in bringing baseball to Japan. We were giving them sports heroes to follow instead of warrior heroes to emulate.
:)
Go ask Korea or some of the other surrounding neighbors about how vicious Japan was to fight against. The Japanese believed they were doing you a favor by killing you instead of letting you return home shamed. They didn't understand how Americans could surrender. To them surrendering made you a non person.
I swear...I am pretty pissed about a lot of things that America has done over the years, but this is one of those areas that people need to wake up, read their history, and attempt to understand the cultural differences that lead to that horrific event. "America is eeevil" card gets so overplayed, now that we actually need it to fix things no one takes it seriously. Catapult the propoganda and all... But hey, good luck explaining that to the folks you are chastising for believing the anti-American propoganda. That's kinda the point of propoganda.
Uhm he does expect the government email to get monitored. Hence the two main problems here. They quit archiving them, and they got in trouble for using outside email to conduct their shenanagins so that they wouldn't get burned by the government archiving and monitoring.
Somewhat resource intensive mattered 10 years ago. When my phone has the same processing power that an F-16 uses to fly...well I think the resource intensive debate is getting silly. Yes it is intensive, but the machines we have today aren't exactly short on the resources to make this extremely capable. In fact Sidewinder firewalls already do a good deal of this type of stuff. To the best of my knowledge they are the only proxy based firewall floating around commercially right now. Packet Inspection took off because it took less resources...and now they just slap more wizbang nonsense feature on top of these types of firewalls to make use of the excess resources. Now we have those resources and so many people are still trying to make packet inspection better rather than going back to the better design that we now have the resources to effectively implement.
Are you serious? Put U.S. businesses at a disadvantage? Are you fucking insane? You are aware of the fact that child labor laws exist here for damned good reason... Same with polution... and any number of other disgusting and disturbing practices that businesses has proven themselves quite capable and willing of when no one is there to stop them. You know...things like slavery, and company towns, and all those fun things that America had to deal with and thus created those laws against them. So all of this is just a horrible disadvantage to US companies abroad? We are shooting ourselves in the foot by not competing using slavery, mass pollution, sweat shops, bribery, murder, extortion, etc? Wow...just wow... Union Carbide must be your freaking hero for what they got away with in Bhopal.
5. an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected.
In fact it is ironic so long as you don't accept the notion that all anti-gay Republicans are in fact gay. Now...it is less ironic now than it was originally because 2 more Republicans have gotten busted soliciting gay sex in the last 2 months or so. So you could argue that the outcome of events IS what is expected now. Either way it is still damned funny that each one of the clowns voted to make discriminating against gays A-OK and then they get busted soliciting gay sex whether you expected them to do that or not.
Sounds like someone didn't RTFA. We really need a -1 Well Duh.
Riiight. You are going to talk about lawyers and judges in a nation that has been grabbing people and taking them to foreign countries to "interrogate" them by not torturing (waterboarding is perfectly legal and not torture remember?). At least that poor Canadian guy with a difficult to pronounce name got a nice heartfelt apology from some of our congress critters. If you plan on packing up and leaving, good luck, they have been putting peaceful protesters names on international criminal lists to keep them from leaving.
You are also talking about a nation who's ineffective Congress had a vote to determine that illegal wiretaps were illegal. Along with multiple judges deaming it unconstitutional. Yet none of that has been stopped, and in fact, they are working on granting immunity for everyone who did anything illegal in the process.
Good luck explaining that to anyone who matters. They fell for all of Cheney's lines. "I can't talk about that, Executive privlidge!" then turning around saying "Well, that doesn't really apply to me, I'm not part of the executive".
Remember, every citizen is a terrorist in waiting! To question the government is unpatriotic. That means if you don't do exactly what they told you you are a terrorist. Never forget. You are either with us or against us! Only a vast and powerful government with lots of tax dollars can possibly protect you from the ever looming daily threat of dying in a terrorist attack. Look how good they have done with all those tax dollars stopping things like smoking, drinking, driving, boating, or getting sick from killing us!
Except this is state secret stuff. You can't discuss classified information with a spouse. Still shenanagins, but I don't think they would have any trouble nailing him for it.
It has been done. Here and here are good places to start. You may even look up Bayer warcrimes while you are at it. We don't have humans that can live 300 years and run 10,000 miles at a clip... Wonder no more at the possibilities...
I take offense to that. I have a very kind and polite tree stump in my front yard that is arguably much more intelligent than "vaginal_flatulance" has demonstrated themselves to be.
No, the person you have become is an arrogant jackass with a superiority complex that insults people who disagree for not agreeing with the "obvious" evidence that you interpret in your own fashion. You write cute little poetic diatribe about how smart you are and how other people should choose to be smart when you really mean people should choose to agree with you and anyone who doesn't is ignoring the obvious and is a ignorant fool. Your attitude, like every other UFO nut I have dealt with, is consistent with the same psychological patterns of the most vocal bible thumper. "The evidunce is here, just reed it!"
As far as your evidence. For fucks sake, this thread is in a story about how the government faked a press release and you are going to talk about how the public record press release stuff is even remotely trustworthy? The entire government, military or not, has changed their damned story on so many mundane events when people didn't buy the first story. That assumes that they weren't changing story intentionally to keep the water murky and keep the conspiracy nuts chasing their tails instead of actually, you know, investigating for real. Your "obvious" evidence requires acceptance of breaking every physical science law we have discovered and you call ME the ignoramus? Nonaerodynamic objects flying in atmospheric conditions, inter(planetary/stellar/galactic/dimensional) travel, and so on. We seem to agree that the government is quite capable of lying, and manipulating stories, yet you somehow twist this into they are covering up alien invasion nonsense with your emotional grip on the broken science of it all.
No sir, you are not educated and open. You are an elitist prick. You think anyone who doesn't agree with your warped UFO evidence peddling writers is a fool. It is easier to fake evidence of aliens than it is to cover it up, and you buy the books, and the marketing, and fall right into the multi-million dollar industry of alien chasing conspiracy theorists. And once again no...I'm not frothing at anything. I am still rather amused by your little superiority complex and your upset by my "redneck trailer trash" writings. But I am done. You really haven't offered anything new in a while other than "You write bad! I am smarter" and cute little poetic paragraphs about living free and open and learning. Well friend, learn to quit being such a elitist jackass, learn to accept the large possibility that none of this crap is extraterrestrial, and learn your fucking science because to jump to extraterrestrial sources that rely on undiscovered or junk science with such a HUGE field of terrestrial possibilities explained rationally by proven science and standard government secrecy is hardly proper application of scientific theory.
I am interested to know...since the evidence so "obviously" supports your UFO theories and nothing mundane... Care explain how to sort out how you choose who to trust? I mean really...if the governments are hiding things, why the hell would they release the truth with FOIA papers? Do you really think they all sit back and say "Well damn, they got us now, we have to tell the truth". So...the sources of the information are highly suspect anyways. The reasons behind why they would lie are highly obfuscated. Major breakthroughs in aviation are HUGE threats to "the bad guys" of any nation involved and they are going to go to extreme lengths to protect that. Even so far as to paint some silly alien invasion picture to keep the water nice and murky and virtually impossible to sort out what may or may not be the truth. You obviously believe the various world governments are capable of doing this, of this mass cover up, but why are you so convinced that you are right and they aren't playing you? Again, go read the Cold War history...they aren't stupid...they got REALLY REALLY good at these mind games. You can't possibly believe the information they provide is worthwhile or accurate in any way. Take the Air Force officers you trot out as confessing they were told to lie. Well what if they were ordered to confess that they lied? The guys involved at high levels of psyop stuff are way smarter than the average bear. Conspiracy theorists are the governments best friend, they cues for insanity so well, and they make such a racket over things that it allows the real shit to slide right on by.
Now...as far as your unending insults to my intelligunce fer not typin lik you want. I will first point out that your language/intelligence nonsense is completely garbage and was debunked in the 60s I believe. I'm too lazy to go dig out the specific reference at the moment, but that leads to my second point. I am not exactly investing a great deal of energy into this, as I said, it amuses me. I have no intention to try and take apart your claims point by point, it would take far to much energy then I care to expend on a silly belief on slashdot. Also...as I have said, I think you are wrong, are emotionally invested in your belief, and are reading the evidence wrong....you however insist that I am just dumb and ignorant and it is some huge personal failing that I don't agree with you presented with the same information. Also, no I'm not going to go buy some UFO conspiracy theorists book to "see the evidence"...not exactly a non biased source now is it?
But listening to you cry about how more educated you are and proper you are while going on about aliens on slashdot is too amusing! I'm glad you have done so much reading, now maybe you should study some of the technology involved. Back in the time you are talking about Radar was sketchy at best and was nowhere near the accuracy that it is today, and even today there are all manner of stupid problems with it. But hey, don't take my word for it, its not like I have ever been around the equipment...oh wait... Really I don't care. I am just amused that you seem to think you are so superior and get all in a huff about this. Which has pretty much been the same pattern for every UFO nut I have talked to. I'm interested to see your evidence of "turn on a dime" radar since that isn't exactly how it works, and eye witness turn on a dime is hardly evidence of shit. I have seen B2s "disappear" because at the right distance and height those giant flat triangles become terribly difficult to see even in daylight. Also, I didn't say jet, aviation doesn't mean jet, though jets are certainly more likely for the faster observed things, we have a whole slew of things that fly that aren't jet powered. But no, a UFO theorist is not the same as an alien believer, you are so latched on to the conspiracy alien bit that you are not a theorist. UFO theorist would be far more concerned with the terrestrial sources before leaping to "well no one is coming clean about ownership so it MUST be the aliens". By the way, the russians were so spooked by one of those things that they shot it down and captured an American pilot. After which point the US had a really hard time with their denial of the U2s existence.
I like you. You are funny. You assume I am angry over your assertions and like every other OMG spaceships nuts I have ever dealt with you assume because I don't agree with any of your silly assertions that I must be in denial and angry. I have actually looked at quite a bit of it, and it just doesn't pass the BS test. Sure you can string all that shit together in some strange assertions to prove space ships, but the probability in it being mundane is much higher. You assert that we couldn't have possibly had experimental things that could have been observed, and then insist that it must be space ships. I have also seen plenty of other evidence that gives far more rational explanations. I don't know where you get the 'can't lie under hypnosis' crap, but boy would that be a doozy... You are so hung up on OMG aliens that you can't look past your own silly assertions to accept anything mundane, it must be super mega world wide conspiracy. Because just a handful of people "in the know" could keep a secret that big from the entire worlds population right? Now, go read what little glimpses of the secret world of aviation that have come out over the years. Radar has hardly been an exact and perfect thing really ever. Again, you assume you are some kind of expert on all of these subjects and I am just some fool clinging to my mundane explanations when it MUST be more.
Your type is so amusing to me. I have worked for one of your type before. I got to hear long rants about Area 51, and the aliens, and other such silly bullshit like we are stealing their technology! Because fiber optics, for example, is just so impossible for us to figure out we must have stolen it. I swear... Go look up Skunkworks and things like that. The cutting edge military aviation technology we have in the air today is ancient stuff. UAVs didn't just spring up from nowhere, nor did stealth technology...the shit was being developed back in the 60s. Do you really believe we just had a sudden epiphany with this kind of technology and managed to produce it overnight? The work on the first nuclear bomb started 30 years before the first one was even tested. Maybe I should build you a laser to kill aliens in the desert...I have been asked to do this by other UFO nuts in the past...you could probably use one too. Tin foil hat on! And for the record no, I'm not frothing, though I'm sure your imagery demands that I am. I am actually quite amused, and I know nothing I say will be taken seriously for a second because you are so attached to your UFO theories and the idea that anyone that disagrees with you is angry by your "logical" assertions of "fact". I personally think you are interpreting the evidence in a very bizarre fashion. Once upon a time we thought lightning was supernatural, that flight was impossible, that you could drill holes in peoples heads to let out the crazy. Spin your wheels all you want, you aren't doing any harm to me or anyone else. I just think you are amusing.
Now, I don't dismiss the idea that alien spacecraft may exist. In fact I hope it is true, the universe would be a terribly lonely place if we are the only ones in the vast nothingness. However, the idea that they are visiting and getting caught and there is some massive global conspiracy/cover up is goofy at best. The evidence can certainly bet twisted to try and support the OMG aliens approach, but it has been FAR from proven, and the mundane boring explanation is ultimately far more likely. Go study the cold war era stuff. Both sides did some AMAZING things, very very clever shit, the mundane explanation was still ultimately the true explanation, but it was a very interesting mundane explanation. X-2 X-15 U-2 SR-71 Sputnik (I wish I had more russian examples but I'm not entirely up on their side of things, other than they were FAR more gutsy and acted with far less regard for human risk in their experimental aviation).
Ooh...didn't think of that. I was just making another example of the people can't do history thing :) To be fair, there are quite a few problems with the whole JFK assassination thing. Conspiracies in general are easy to untangle if you follow the money, it only gets difficult when noname crazy people are involved in events, its hard to distinguish the acts of a lone crazy from something bigger. It is no secret that people in power will do things to remain in power, often illegal and immoral things that they will try to hide because revealing them would get them removed from power. It isn't some vast conspiracy, its just a bunch of greedy fools working "together" while trying to stab each other at the same time. Human greed is such that some super conspiracy group could not exist, their own individual motives would eventually cause it to collapse anyways. If, however, such a group DID work past that ugly bit of human nature, then quite frankly, they would probably be more qualified to run the world anyways.
You really are a special kind of crazy. So...I will go ahead and clarify something. UFO - Unidentified Flying Object - EXTREMELY COMMON! Space ships - What the hell ever crazy guy. Yes, there are tons of UFOs sighted, documented, and whatnot. Most are nothing significant. As for your photo nonsense...Photoshop to the rescue! Police, pilots, military officers, and ATC guys may not "play silly hoaxes" but they certainly have a LONG and respected tradition of making monumental mistakes.
Oh...and method of travel claimed by the aliens themselves?! How the fuck do the aliens claim anything when their existence is FAR from proven and you go on to argue that abductions are likely lies. As far as test flights being ordered to buzz things...you have CLEARLY never EVER met a fighter pilot...let alone a fighter pilot selected for the uber secret top of the field test pilot designation. You will be hard pressed to find a fighter pilot that HASN'T done something monumentally stupid they were told not to do, but did it anyways because having $20million+ worth of high tech weapon at your exclusive control does things to your ego.
Unexplained does not mean lies. Unexplained so not mean aliens. It could be that normal old boring classified stuff, you know...the stuff where there are no crazy spaceship driving aliens darting about. It could be no one is sure and they don't want to lose face. ATC is a VERY serious job, and if something happens that should have been caught it is a very very ugly situation and I have no doubt they would cover it up. O'hare airport did a bangup job of covering up the fact that their ATC folks were working 16hr days getting 4hrs of sleep when they managed to direct the takeoff of a jumbo jet through the tail of another jumbo jet taxiing on the runway. Its days like this that I realize my paranoia really isn't all that bad...folks like you are a whole different class of crazy.
It stuns me that you would attack my "armchair logic" yet justify this nonsense with the notion of interdimensional travel over the more likely boring mundane explanation of people are not omnipotent, lie to save face, or the multitude of infinitely more likely explanations of any of these events. Nope...interdimensional travel exists and your logic is dumb is your answer... Wow...just wow...
"required to keep records" means about squat. So you are going to tell me that people required to keep records makes it legit? What about the people required to keep records of the cooling systems of the nuclear subs that all just got fired recently for pencil whipping all the reports. Oopsies there. Second...lets do some basic rational thought about the Area 51 business. It is obvious that the military does some pretty secret stuff there...so...uhm...something crashed...big story...cold war...lots of spies...everyone trying to get ahead. Now...a overblown crazy ass alien crash landing story that spreads for wildfire and maintains its "legitimacy" for decades would make the job foreign intelligence agencies MUCH more difficult. But hey, lets not look at the boring and more logical explanations of "ooooh conspiracy!"
That having been said...lets examine aliens. They have mastered one of the following. Interplanetary, Interstellar, Intergalactic, or possibly Interdimensional travel. Now...lets look at us. We have a really solid grasp on stealth technology, and medical imaging, yet can't even reliably get ourselves to our own moon. Now at the very least, even with commercial tools available today, if it was Interplanetary travel we would have a lot more evidence, so it would be safest to assume that it is at the VERY least Interstellar. So...a group that has managed Interstellar travel and avoidance of all the thousands of eyes we have in the sky from hobbyist astronomers are sneaking past, ACCIDENTALLY getting caught flying low over populated areas, and in some accounts performing abductions and odd medical things that are rather primitive even by our standards? Explain to me exactly where ANY of that makes an ounce of sense? For all our advanced imaging we have today even in the hands of joe sixpack, all we ever see are stupid grainy pictures and shadowy nonsense. Now...this doesn't even begin to address the huge multitude of these things that have been proven over and over and over to be silly hoaxes.