Does no one else find it funny that saying that about five years ago would have been met with "WTF?!!"
However, I do have to agree, VS still has half-baked C++ support period. It's neat that they have their own.NET stuff for C++, but I think they tend to think about that.NET stuff first and ISO C++ second. That's a shame really because I know quite a few (and maybe it's just the area I'm in) places wanting to hire those with C++11 skills.
so we can't expect all the compilers to offer an implementation in less than 6 months
Well the thing about it is that they've had longer than six months to prep for it. Especially for C++11. I get your point, but the other guys tend to build as the standard gets formalized, not wait until it is approved. Heck even the GNU guys are already baking C++1y support. That's what makes me think that my first point is more true than time frame reasons.
C++11 support isn't so much a need. The neat features brought with the new standard aren't a "MAKE OR BREAK" kind of thing. However, at the risk of making an oxymoron, C++11 new feature sets make C++ a great deal more readable and enjoyable to code in (I know I was like, shwhaaaaatt?!). Which kind of makes the.NET stuff a little less appealing (unless you're targeting the.NET run-time, which in itself is a whole another can of worms) since I've know quite a few folk to code C++.NET because it is easier than ISO C++. The run-time thing, to them, is just an added benefit. I think once a person starts to use C++11, it'll click what makes it great.
Think about us, poor developers, stuck with...
You are not forgotten, you have my deepest sympathies if you are still stuck with them.
I seriously doubt that exchange ever got him fired for anything. He is known for being vocal about the people around him. If there was anything he was being vocal about that might have forced him to quit Red Hat, it would have been him calling Ted Ts'o a rape apologist. But the truth of the matter is that MG left of his own will to go work for Nebula to advise on their Open Stack solution.
Now it is true that he still sits on the Fedora board, and you have a point about maybe just maybe, that influences his post a bit. That was the whole point of posting the story. Is this a case of Red Hat influence or is MG painting a pretty honest picture? I have no idea where you were going with the first paragraph of your comment and I wish it wasn't there because it diminishes the part of your comment that's got a valid argument.
I concur! The ditch of X11 is more political than technical. X11 has become so entrenched within itself that the notion of dropping all of the old crap that gets in the way from making good drivers, is hard to fathom.
X.org does not equal the X developers alone. X11 was good while it lasted, but it was high time to start developing something for a new generation of developers and devices. X could have been that, but the inertia within the group to change anything was just too much for devs to deal with. Wayland was born out of frustration of old fuddy-duddys who can't get their heads out their ass. Sort of like Microsoft.
My main beef with Mir is that while it is trying to go after the same ends as Wayland (leaner, more robust, able to be on mobile devices, client handled...) it is born not out of the frustration that X devs had, but simply because Canonical needed to craft their own stack because it was easier for their devs.
I have heard these calls from the Mir team, that they'll respect other DEs requests, should the Mir team (being completely made up of Canonical) add a patch that breaks a non-Unity DE. However, I don't really buy it. Canonical is trying to deliver a product that can be sold (not the OS but all the services that go with it) and I seriously doubt that when it comes to the Mir team deciding to pull a "feature" from Mir to let GNOME work, or keeping the feature because it helps sell their product, that they'll choose the former over the later. I could be wrong in that the Mir team is all around great people, but at the moment, their stubborn level is about as equal to the GNOME team, and the GNOME people are actually starting to take a few lessons in humility, so that makes the Ubuntu team seem all the worst.
Wayland is very important because it is an honest attempt by frustrated developers of X to create a nimble, lightweight, portable, and vendor neutral display system. X couldn't be that because X was just to huge to pilot in that direction. Mir is said to be vendor neutral, but it's a super hard sell in the trust department there. I think Canonical has burned a lot of community trust and they really needed a ton of that in order for Mir to succeed. Those who say we should just stick with X are just waiting for us all to doom ourselves to playing massive catch up, when most devices no longer have the ability to run the beast that is X. C'mon, can't we say we learned something from Microsoft?! X is great, but it isn't eternal, and X isn't being used by vendors who use Linux/BSD as their kernels. Google isn't using it, Valve won't be using it... How many more missed chances do we need? We need more attractive options for vendors, thin easy to use display servers needs to be on the OSS platter if we want those vendors sitting at the table with us. Otherwise, we'll just be a bunch of independent Ubuntus floating around trying to get as many shady contracts to make money.
The things I tend not to like about Visual Studio is, as you pointed out, the unit testing tools. Also, the ORM tools in VS are heavily tied to Microsoft tech. While you can do UML in VS, I tend not to like how the options are laid out or how the UML editor in general works overall. I also do a lot of BIRT and the MS tools are sorely lacking in that department. I'd also like to see the ability to manage server publishing from the IDE, VS seems to only get along in that department for MS stuff. While we do use quite a bit of Microsoft's stuff, it isn't the only thing. We have AS/400 systems, Linux boxes with Tomcat and Apache, and Mac OS X systems all using a lot of Java or native services. Again, Visual Studio just seems to be really focused in on Microsoft products. Which that's totally justifiable since it is a Microsoft product. I don't blame Microsoft for not including that kind of stuff, but it does make the tool a harder fit for what I need to do on a day to day basis.
I think VS is great as a code monkey that doesn't need their fingers in a dozen different things, but at my work I'm in a ton of different things and having Eclipse with the ability to jump into each task with a set perspective seems to be a better fit. That's not to diminish VS, but that it just doesn't do every I need it to do, and I get that I'm mostly an exception to the rule here. So I'm not trying to say that VS is just horrible, it just doesn't fit with what I need to do and apparently that is a lot. If I was working for a shop where dotNET was the main foundation, IIS was the main web server, ASP was the main driver for pages, and Microsoft's BI solution was the one that we picked, then yeah, VS would be my best buddy and friend. While I know that VS can get a bit outside of its intended domain (Python editor and Django support in VS is great), it just seems that sometimes it is a chore to get it to do that.
However, I do want to footnote that all the above is simply my opinion on the matter. I'm not one of those evangelist, I think that everyone should use the tools best suited for the job. I know that VS does fit into a lot of use cases nicely, it just seems like mine isn't one of them.
No I got the humor. Sorry if you took mine to being serious. Honest mistake and lack of the ability to crack a joke. However in all seriousness, I think visual studio is great and all, but I don't know about best IDE full stop. But I guess to each their own.
Pffft As if. They're developers still, not freaking management or goodness forbid sales department. Besides, being a Microsoft centered guy must be tough. It sucks having everything you learned tossed out the window by the time you've gotten a good grasp of what the hell you're doing. "Hey Dan, looks like we won't need that XAML based program, can you go grab a book on Modern UI?"
In all seriousness. The standard LO can Find and Replace my most common error that I find in papers with the search set to ^. and the replace to \t$0 That's for a change of paragrah to have an extra tab at start.
There is also the AltSearch plugin that works great and does exactly what you want it to do.
I tend to favor LO over MS Word because anchoring isn't a chore in LO versus everything you have to go through just to get images set to the exact place that you want them to be in on a document, but that's just my opinion. I still prefer LO and since our document requirements allow us to output to sites in PDF, it is bar-none the best to work with for those who really like to dig into the guts of a document.
Oh I totally applaud Foxconn for doing something to save lives, and there's lots more room for improvement. However, I think the thing is that there was an immediate need to make safe said area and what the rationale was behind the making of said place unsafe.
Well I guess that's one of those, we'll see, kind of things now isn't? Historically that's not been the case, but who knows?! However, IMHO I wouldn't be betting the farm on it, especially when Microsoft says they're going to fiddle with it before wide release. If you're right, you're right. If you're wrong, you're wrong. Either way, Microsoft holding the bits back after many years of giving MSDN people access to RTM without a bit of notice, is a bit douche bag-ish. Again, that's my opinion on the situation. However, I'll admit I'm still a bit jaded from WTL being shown the door, so maybe that's playing a role in my opinion.
Rarely are APIs stable between preview and RTM. Unless Microsoft has also done a 180 turn for stablilty between the two points, which from the article doesn't sound like the case, I wouldn't bet on APIs being stable between the two.
I call BS. In some pink fluffy world where unicorns do prance, doth Microsoft hold steady between preview release and RTM. Preview is just that, a preview of some ideas that they may or may not keep come RTM. So developing on preview is always a gamble because the technology that was there but not mature in preview, may have just been pulled in order to make RTM timeframe.
Microsoft holding the golden bits back is just another peg in their hostilities towards developers and pretty much renders a good bit of MSDN memberships useless, not all grant you, but I know a lot of people who hold MSDN membership just so they can be ahead of the curve. Holding back is just plain silly but strangely makes sense for some company that continues to gear away from the old "Desktop Think".
I'm not judging you, it's a common thing to think preview = RTM, but historically that's just not been the case. Microsoft is prone to fiddle between the two time slots, and your program is hosed if it tickles the fancy for someone, to add some extra BOOL parameter to a method to make it work for some vendor in testing.
Preview is not equal to RTM and trying to develop software you intend to sell to someone(s) for large sums based on preview, is just begging for support tickets to flow in like the breaking of the Teton Dam. When you hear a bunch of MCSDs gather round talking about that guy, that's the guy their talking about. Don't be that guy.
Wow woke up on the wrong side of bed today eh? Do you usually dig four threads deep to poke at people? Is it a hobby of yours? Yeah, the URL shorten was a mistake, realized it right after I hit the submit that I had copy/pasted the wrong snip. Shall I break out the Cat o' nines for you?
If I were meeting you in real life, I'd most likely not even bother. You seem to be a dick over the smallest things. You must be an engineer!
I don't tend to buy that assumption. People in their 20's know that they are going to have to plan for retirement, yet they do not when it is the most advantageous for them to do so. I believe that short-sightedness is not a function of length of life, but more a function of society. Much around us, pushes a mentality of right now as oppose to a mentality of right. I'm pretty doubtful that extending a person's life would induce them to change jack, but instead would offer them an opportunity to screw off for a longer period of time. Think, college aged jack holes continuing their antics up till 60ish and that being socially acceptable.
Okay awesome. You immortals can keep the place, after a few billions years, and a century of modern humans. I'd say the old girl is starting to show some wear. I'm sure your immortality will include being able to breath that which is toxic to us now. Heck why not just go ahead and write out that part of needing to breath while you're at it?
Okay so is it just me or is anyone else thinking that it wouldn't take a high school education to understand how to sap power from the road for free for powering your cell phone, laptop, or for the real inventive some parts of your house. Maybe that's just the cynic in me talking.
Also, roads tend to wear pretty fast. So I am hoping that they have the ability to strip the asphalt around the conductors as opposed to having to replace the conductors when the road wears down. Those buried conductors are what make repaving an intersection in US a bit more expensive than say the straight road, but seeing how the intersection is but a small segment of the road entirely (except for New Jersey, admit it, your roads are that bad) it kind of balances out.
And here I thought you might have been called a coward for posting as AC. You're right about people wanting to be right all the time, but I don't see that as a negative. Usually I find myself doing way more research about a topic just to prove that asshole wrong. Of course, the problem arises if you aren't willing to be wrong in the course of your research. I've found myself knee deep in papers and books to only realize that, "Damn it! Dude was right." For every argument or discussion one gets into, there comes the possibility that one must swallow their pride.
The dip shits out there not willing to accept that comeuppance moment just ruin it for the rest of us.
No I agree with parent. You're on a planet with plate tectonics. Earthquakes are just part of the game. Hell, next thing you know people are going to start bitching about hurricanes, snow storms, solar radiation, and land slides. Move to Mars if you are that worried about Earthquakes.:-D
There are no words, I honestly cannot reply to the level of ignorance of that last reply. Also I'm giving up Slashdot, it makes me sad to know people like you exist, so if I ignore it, perhaps people like you will cease to exist. Have fun!
You obviously don't get how hard it is to get one kg of the stuff. Sure whatever. At this point it's obvious that no one has ever actually tried hydrogen fuel.
Slashdot Mirror
C++ standard is evolving fast
Does no one else find it funny that saying that about five years ago would have been met with "WTF?!!"
However, I do have to agree, VS still has half-baked C++ support period. It's neat that they have their own .NET stuff for C++, but I think they tend to think about that .NET stuff first and ISO C++ second. That's a shame really because I know quite a few (and maybe it's just the area I'm in) places wanting to hire those with C++11 skills.
so we can't expect all the compilers to offer an implementation in less than 6 months
Well the thing about it is that they've had longer than six months to prep for it. Especially for C++11. I get your point, but the other guys tend to build as the standard gets formalized, not wait until it is approved. Heck even the GNU guys are already baking C++1y support. That's what makes me think that my first point is more true than time frame reasons.
C++11 support isn't so much a need. The neat features brought with the new standard aren't a "MAKE OR BREAK" kind of thing. However, at the risk of making an oxymoron, C++11 new feature sets make C++ a great deal more readable and enjoyable to code in (I know I was like, shwhaaaaatt?!). Which kind of makes the .NET stuff a little less appealing (unless you're targeting the .NET run-time, which in itself is a whole another can of worms) since I've know quite a few folk to code C++.NET because it is easier than ISO C++. The run-time thing, to them, is just an added benefit. I think once a person starts to use C++11, it'll click what makes it great.
Think about us, poor developers, stuck with...
You are not forgotten, you have my deepest sympathies if you are still stuck with them.
Java only promised write once and run anywhere. Nowhere in that promise was write once, be able to read it later. <<Takes cover>> :-D
I seriously doubt that exchange ever got him fired for anything. He is known for being vocal about the people around him. If there was anything he was being vocal about that might have forced him to quit Red Hat, it would have been him calling Ted Ts'o a rape apologist. But the truth of the matter is that MG left of his own will to go work for Nebula to advise on their Open Stack solution.
Now it is true that he still sits on the Fedora board, and you have a point about maybe just maybe, that influences his post a bit. That was the whole point of posting the story. Is this a case of Red Hat influence or is MG painting a pretty honest picture? I have no idea where you were going with the first paragraph of your comment and I wish it wasn't there because it diminishes the part of your comment that's got a valid argument.
I concur! The ditch of X11 is more political than technical. X11 has become so entrenched within itself that the notion of dropping all of the old crap that gets in the way from making good drivers, is hard to fathom.
X.org does not equal the X developers alone. X11 was good while it lasted, but it was high time to start developing something for a new generation of developers and devices. X could have been that, but the inertia within the group to change anything was just too much for devs to deal with. Wayland was born out of frustration of old fuddy-duddys who can't get their heads out their ass. Sort of like Microsoft.
My main beef with Mir is that while it is trying to go after the same ends as Wayland (leaner, more robust, able to be on mobile devices, client handled...) it is born not out of the frustration that X devs had, but simply because Canonical needed to craft their own stack because it was easier for their devs.
I have heard these calls from the Mir team, that they'll respect other DEs requests, should the Mir team (being completely made up of Canonical) add a patch that breaks a non-Unity DE. However, I don't really buy it. Canonical is trying to deliver a product that can be sold (not the OS but all the services that go with it) and I seriously doubt that when it comes to the Mir team deciding to pull a "feature" from Mir to let GNOME work, or keeping the feature because it helps sell their product, that they'll choose the former over the later. I could be wrong in that the Mir team is all around great people, but at the moment, their stubborn level is about as equal to the GNOME team, and the GNOME people are actually starting to take a few lessons in humility, so that makes the Ubuntu team seem all the worst.
Wayland is very important because it is an honest attempt by frustrated developers of X to create a nimble, lightweight, portable, and vendor neutral display system. X couldn't be that because X was just to huge to pilot in that direction. Mir is said to be vendor neutral, but it's a super hard sell in the trust department there. I think Canonical has burned a lot of community trust and they really needed a ton of that in order for Mir to succeed. Those who say we should just stick with X are just waiting for us all to doom ourselves to playing massive catch up, when most devices no longer have the ability to run the beast that is X. C'mon, can't we say we learned something from Microsoft?! X is great, but it isn't eternal, and X isn't being used by vendors who use Linux/BSD as their kernels. Google isn't using it, Valve won't be using it... How many more missed chances do we need? We need more attractive options for vendors, thin easy to use display servers needs to be on the OSS platter if we want those vendors sitting at the table with us. Otherwise, we'll just be a bunch of independent Ubuntus floating around trying to get as many shady contracts to make money.
The things I tend not to like about Visual Studio is, as you pointed out, the unit testing tools. Also, the ORM tools in VS are heavily tied to Microsoft tech. While you can do UML in VS, I tend not to like how the options are laid out or how the UML editor in general works overall. I also do a lot of BIRT and the MS tools are sorely lacking in that department. I'd also like to see the ability to manage server publishing from the IDE, VS seems to only get along in that department for MS stuff. While we do use quite a bit of Microsoft's stuff, it isn't the only thing. We have AS/400 systems, Linux boxes with Tomcat and Apache, and Mac OS X systems all using a lot of Java or native services. Again, Visual Studio just seems to be really focused in on Microsoft products. Which that's totally justifiable since it is a Microsoft product. I don't blame Microsoft for not including that kind of stuff, but it does make the tool a harder fit for what I need to do on a day to day basis.
I think VS is great as a code monkey that doesn't need their fingers in a dozen different things, but at my work I'm in a ton of different things and having Eclipse with the ability to jump into each task with a set perspective seems to be a better fit. That's not to diminish VS, but that it just doesn't do every I need it to do, and I get that I'm mostly an exception to the rule here. So I'm not trying to say that VS is just horrible, it just doesn't fit with what I need to do and apparently that is a lot. If I was working for a shop where dotNET was the main foundation, IIS was the main web server, ASP was the main driver for pages, and Microsoft's BI solution was the one that we picked, then yeah, VS would be my best buddy and friend. While I know that VS can get a bit outside of its intended domain (Python editor and Django support in VS is great), it just seems that sometimes it is a chore to get it to do that.
However, I do want to footnote that all the above is simply my opinion on the matter. I'm not one of those evangelist, I think that everyone should use the tools best suited for the job. I know that VS does fit into a lot of use cases nicely, it just seems like mine isn't one of them.
No I got the humor. Sorry if you took mine to being serious. Honest mistake and lack of the ability to crack a joke. However in all seriousness, I think visual studio is great and all, but I don't know about best IDE full stop. But I guess to each their own.
Pffft As if. They're developers still, not freaking management or goodness forbid sales department. Besides, being a Microsoft centered guy must be tough. It sucks having everything you learned tossed out the window by the time you've gotten a good grasp of what the hell you're doing. "Hey Dan, looks like we won't need that XAML based program, can you go grab a book on Modern UI?"
In all seriousness. The standard LO can Find and Replace my most common error that I find in papers with the search set to ^. and the replace to \t$0 That's for a change of paragrah to have an extra tab at start.
There is also the AltSearch plugin that works great and does exactly what you want it to do.
The AltSearch plugin can be had here: http://extensions.libreoffice.org/extension-center/alternative-dialog-find-replace-for-writer and the RegEx expressions with the builtin can be found here: https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/List_of_Regular_Expressions
I tend to favor LO over MS Word because anchoring isn't a chore in LO versus everything you have to go through just to get images set to the exact place that you want them to be in on a document, but that's just my opinion. I still prefer LO and since our document requirements allow us to output to sites in PDF, it is bar-none the best to work with for those who really like to dig into the guts of a document.
Again, just my experience with LO, YMMV.
Oh I totally applaud Foxconn for doing something to save lives, and there's lots more room for improvement. However, I think the thing is that there was an immediate need to make safe said area and what the rationale was behind the making of said place unsafe.
I read yours too. Duly noted, but since you failed to provide any rationale, I'll be hard pressed to believe anything more than you are a troll.
Well I guess that's one of those, we'll see, kind of things now isn't? Historically that's not been the case, but who knows?! However, IMHO I wouldn't be betting the farm on it, especially when Microsoft says they're going to fiddle with it before wide release. If you're right, you're right. If you're wrong, you're wrong. Either way, Microsoft holding the bits back after many years of giving MSDN people access to RTM without a bit of notice, is a bit douche bag-ish. Again, that's my opinion on the situation. However, I'll admit I'm still a bit jaded from WTL being shown the door, so maybe that's playing a role in my opinion.
Rarely are APIs stable between preview and RTM. Unless Microsoft has also done a 180 turn for stablilty between the two points, which from the article doesn't sound like the case, I wouldn't bet on APIs being stable between the two.
I call BS. In some pink fluffy world where unicorns do prance, doth Microsoft hold steady between preview release and RTM. Preview is just that, a preview of some ideas that they may or may not keep come RTM. So developing on preview is always a gamble because the technology that was there but not mature in preview, may have just been pulled in order to make RTM timeframe.
Microsoft holding the golden bits back is just another peg in their hostilities towards developers and pretty much renders a good bit of MSDN memberships useless, not all grant you, but I know a lot of people who hold MSDN membership just so they can be ahead of the curve. Holding back is just plain silly but strangely makes sense for some company that continues to gear away from the old "Desktop Think".
I'm not judging you, it's a common thing to think preview = RTM, but historically that's just not been the case. Microsoft is prone to fiddle between the two time slots, and your program is hosed if it tickles the fancy for someone, to add some extra BOOL parameter to a method to make it work for some vendor in testing.
Preview is not equal to RTM and trying to develop software you intend to sell to someone(s) for large sums based on preview, is just begging for support tickets to flow in like the breaking of the Teton Dam. When you hear a bunch of MCSDs gather round talking about that guy, that's the guy their talking about. Don't be that guy.
Well at least Tennessee's messed up laws have that part covered.
Wow woke up on the wrong side of bed today eh? Do you usually dig four threads deep to poke at people? Is it a hobby of yours? Yeah, the URL shorten was a mistake, realized it right after I hit the submit that I had copy/pasted the wrong snip. Shall I break out the Cat o' nines for you?
If I were meeting you in real life, I'd most likely not even bother. You seem to be a dick over the smallest things. You must be an engineer!
The Zune was awesome?! http://goo.gl/bxggFh
I don't tend to buy that assumption. People in their 20's know that they are going to have to plan for retirement, yet they do not when it is the most advantageous for them to do so. I believe that short-sightedness is not a function of length of life, but more a function of society. Much around us, pushes a mentality of right now as oppose to a mentality of right. I'm pretty doubtful that extending a person's life would induce them to change jack, but instead would offer them an opportunity to screw off for a longer period of time. Think, college aged jack holes continuing their antics up till 60ish and that being socially acceptable.
Okay awesome. You immortals can keep the place, after a few billions years, and a century of modern humans. I'd say the old girl is starting to show some wear. I'm sure your immortality will include being able to breath that which is toxic to us now. Heck why not just go ahead and write out that part of needing to breath while you're at it?
Okay so is it just me or is anyone else thinking that it wouldn't take a high school education to understand how to sap power from the road for free for powering your cell phone, laptop, or for the real inventive some parts of your house. Maybe that's just the cynic in me talking.
Also, roads tend to wear pretty fast. So I am hoping that they have the ability to strip the asphalt around the conductors as opposed to having to replace the conductors when the road wears down. Those buried conductors are what make repaving an intersection in US a bit more expensive than say the straight road, but seeing how the intersection is but a small segment of the road entirely (except for New Jersey, admit it, your roads are that bad) it kind of balances out.
And here I thought you might have been called a coward for posting as AC. You're right about people wanting to be right all the time, but I don't see that as a negative. Usually I find myself doing way more research about a topic just to prove that asshole wrong. Of course, the problem arises if you aren't willing to be wrong in the course of your research. I've found myself knee deep in papers and books to only realize that, "Damn it! Dude was right." For every argument or discussion one gets into, there comes the possibility that one must swallow their pride.
The dip shits out there not willing to accept that comeuppance moment just ruin it for the rest of us.
No I agree with parent. You're on a planet with plate tectonics. Earthquakes are just part of the game. Hell, next thing you know people are going to start bitching about hurricanes, snow storms, solar radiation, and land slides. Move to Mars if you are that worried about Earthquakes. :-D
I second this motion. He's right.
Seriously did no one notice that this is for Java 6? Update to Java 7. Way to make a story out of nothing. I hate Slashdot editors.
There are no words, I honestly cannot reply to the level of ignorance of that last reply. Also I'm giving up Slashdot, it makes me sad to know people like you exist, so if I ignore it, perhaps people like you will cease to exist. Have fun!
You obviously don't get how hard it is to get one kg of the stuff. Sure whatever. At this point it's obvious that no one has ever actually tried hydrogen fuel.