Slashdot Mirror


Nissan Plans To Sell Self-Driving Cars By 2020

Lucas123 writes "Nissan today said it will begin demonstrating autonomous vehicle technology on its all-electric Leaf this year, and plans to begin selling multiple models of self-driving cars by 2020. Nissan said it's already building an autonomous drive proving ground in Japan. Its goal is availability across the model range within two vehicle generations. The car company, which is among several others and Google in developing autonomous driving tech, is currently working with top universities, including MIT, Stanford, Carnegie Mellon, Oxford and The University of Tokyo, to develop its self-drive technology."

333 comments

  1. Good by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No more tailgating, left lane hogging, pulling out without indicating, running red lights, drunk driving or any of that other stuff the meat-based drivers keep on doing.

    Free up the roads for people who don't see driving as a chore and make an effort to drive properly.

    --
    No sig today...
    1. Re: Good by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Think about the implications for the environment. Consistent easy acceleration saving fuel and safer roads for motorcyclists.

      Traffic jams are almost a sole function of human deficiencies through overreaction and slow reaction. And, since ICEs are bad about changing power output to meet demand, lots of fuel is wasted idling.

      --
      while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
    2. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No more tailgating, left lane hogging, pulling out without indicating, running red lights, drunk driving or any of that other stuff the meat-based drivers keep on doing.

      Actually, in my automated car that will be the default setting (except drunk driving which is hard to make a computer do unless it is water-cooled).

    3. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Free up the roads for people who don't see driving as a chore and make an effort to drive properly.

      Until the insurance companies and the government conspire to make manually-driven cars illegal.

      Always be careful what you wish for.

    4. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why shouldn't an automated car be able to run a red light? If it doesn't interfere with traffic, nor does it surprise the meatbags, then what purpose would a red light serve for an automated vehicle? In fact, when you think of it, what purpose would lanes, speed limits, any vehicle indication lights, etc., serve when all traffic is automated? Heck, lower the sidewalks to street level and when nobody is on them, use them as another place to drive!

    5. Re:Good by ahem · · Score: 4, Funny

      Heck, lower the sidewalks to street level and when nobody is on them, use them as another place to drive!

      It appears that you haven't been to Italy, have you.

      --
      Not A Sig
    6. Re:Good by ron_ivi · · Score: 1

      No more ... running red lights

      No more red lights at all! http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~aim/

      Autonomous Intersection Management

      (Awesome traffic intersection simulation on that page)

    7. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FYI, it's still going to happen. Scale wiill force self-driving cars to drive pretty much the same as the existing meat head method.

      For example, the Internet. You think all those packets just seamlessly arrive and never collide, TCP/IP packet collisions are more common than the semi-rig smashing into a guard rail.

      Computers sure make you think you can escape reality, but really.... you can't escape reality. "Traffic free" is a pipe dream.

    8. Re: Good by Belial6 · · Score: 2

      Traffic jams are almost a sole function of human deficiencies through overreaction and slow reaction.

      No they are not. That is a myth. Traffic jams are almost a sole function of not enough road for the number of cars. Once a road is at capacity, no amount of 'perfect' driving is going to prevent the addition of more cars from causing traffic slowdowns and eventually traffic jams.

    9. Re:Good by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      No more traffic tickets... ooops... Sorry, going to have to ban those for the sake of our local financ...er...safety or something.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    10. Re:Good by Baloroth · · Score: 1

      Free up the roads for people who don't see driving as a chore and make an effort to drive properly.

      Until the insurance companies and the government conspire to make manually-driven cars illegal.

      Always be careful what you wish for.

      And that's a problem... why? Removing humans from the equation will just make the roads safer, and allows for all kinds of useful tricks to speed up traffic (like eliminating stop lights/signs almost entirely, except where necessary for pedestrians). Everyone likes to think they're a good driver, and it's everyone else who sucks, but the reality is humans are universally terrible drivers: slow reaction times, easily distracted, sleep-deprived, temperamental: no one is actually above all that (and the more a person thinks they are, the more likely susceptible they likely are). We only allow human drivers because we didn't have computers that could handle it. Now, we do, or very nearly.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    11. Re:Good by EvilSS · · Score: 2

      I see the opposite happening. Self driving cars would mean insurance companies can't screw over people of a certain age or with bad driving records. No tickets? What ever will the governments do to replace that revenue? Police layoffs (no need for so many traffic units). Then there are the lawyers! What will all those traffic attorneys do?

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    12. Re: Good by lgw · · Score: 1

      Think about the implications for the environment. Consistent easy acceleration saving fuel and safer roads for motorcyclists.

      I don't know about "consistent easy acceleration" - to the limited extent my 2012 Infiniti is self driving, it accelerates pretty nicely up to the speed I set, though I guess it's still far from full throttle. It also still makes mistakes with motorcyclists - I don't entirely trust it to understand there's a motorcycle in front of me yet, as it's sometimes slow to react, although it's fine about motorcycles beside me (sides are radar, but front is image processing from a camera, which is harder).

      Traffic jams are almost a sole function of human deficiencies through overreaction and slow reaction.

      No, not at all. When all cars in a lane are self-driving, you might pack them in a bit tighter, but likely no tighter than the current (unsafe) spacing on California highways. In any case, in the US we suck at building infrastructure and will just build fewer roads and keep the same level of traffic jams. And don't be so sure about computers driving well either - I expect the first 20 years will be driving a bit better than the average driver, but that's still far from driving well.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    13. Re: Good by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 4, Informative

      At highway speeds, human driven cars should be over 150 feet apart to be safe. Autonomous cars can be separated by just a few feet. The capacity of our existing roads would increase immensely.

    14. Re: Good by 0123456 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      At highway speeds, human driven cars should be over 150 feet apart to be safe. Autonomous cars can be separated by just a few feet.

      Yeah, because nothing could happen so fast that computer-driven cars a few feet apart could cause a massive pileup with thousands dead.

    15. Re: Good by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Once a road is at capacity, no amount of 'perfect' driving is going to prevent the addition of more cars from causing traffic slowdowns and eventually traffic jams.

      What you are missing is that the "capacity" is not a constant. Self-driving cars can drive much closer together, and can react much faster to changing conditions. They will also operate with more information about traffic conditions ahead. Google has estimated that their cars can increase the capacity of a lane of highway by at least a factor of five.

    16. Re:Good by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Until the insurance companies and the government conspire to make manually-driven cars illegal.

      Fine with me. The sooner the better.

      If you want to actually control your own car, you should go to a private closed circuit track. The public roads are not the place for that.

    17. Re:Good by Jeremi · · Score: 1

      No more tailgating, left lane hogging, pulling out without indicating, running red lights, drunk driving or any of that other stuff the meat-based drivers keep on doing.

      At least, not until the firmware-modding community gets their hands on it... :)

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    18. Re:Good by jittles · · Score: 1

      Free up the roads for people who don't see driving as a chore and make an effort to drive properly.

      Until the insurance companies and the government conspire to make manually-driven cars illegal.

      Always be careful what you wish for.

      And that's a problem... why? Removing humans from the equation will just make the roads safer, and allows for all kinds of useful tricks to speed up traffic (like eliminating stop lights/signs almost entirely, except where necessary for pedestrians). Everyone likes to think they're a good driver, and it's everyone else who sucks, but the reality is humans are universally terrible drivers: slow reaction times, easily distracted, sleep-deprived, temperamental: no one is actually above all that (and the more a person thinks they are, the more likely susceptible they likely are). We only allow human drivers because we didn't have computers that could handle it. Now, we do, or very nearly.

      Some people enjoy driving. I happen to enjoy driving a motorcycle. I am not sure I would want to ride on a computer controlled motorcycle as the way you accelerate, and how far you lean in turns and things like that often depend on your current riding position is, the current center of gravity for the bike, and even the tires that you currently have on your bike (their age, build material, tread style, etc). Would I like my bike to be able to communicate with other cars on the road and tell them that I am there? Sometimes. And I certainly would not be opposed to the bike calculating safety margins and tell me when I am potentially doing something risky.

    19. Re:Good by jittles · · Score: 1

      Heck, lower the sidewalks to street level and when nobody is on them, use them as another place to drive!

      It appears that you haven't been to Italy, have you.

      I've seen this in San Francisco, right where the 101 basically dumps you into a city street.

    20. Re: Good by Jeremi · · Score: 1

      Once a road is at capacity, no amount of 'perfect' driving is going to prevent the addition of more cars from causing traffic slowdowns and eventually traffic jams.

      True, but networked computers would also be able to coordinate their entrances onto congested roadways. Quality of Service scheduling could be applied to cars on the road just like it currently gets applied to packets on a telephone network. (assuming nobody reprograms their software to 'cheat', anyway ;))

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    21. Re:Good by tlambert · · Score: 2

      No tickets? What ever will the governments do to replace that revenue?

      Tax self-driving cars. Tax fueling self-driving cars. Tax by road miles. Tax for being white or non-white. Tax for being gay or non-gay. Tax for being a Baptist or Methodist, and tax for being neither. Tax, Tax, Tax,

    22. Re: Good by mcgrew · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Consistent easy acceleration saving fuel and safer roads for motorcyclists.

      Safer roads for everyone. It could be programmed for optimum acceleration, but that's not where most gas is wasted. Most gas is wasted sitting at red lights, and people are particularly stupid about that, at least here in Springfield. The light ahead is red and they race to it, but slow down if it's green. You could save a lot of fuel if the computer knew when lights were going to change.

    23. Re: Good by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      If a road is at capacity, why couldn't all of the cars be driving at even something slow like 25 MPH, instead of speed up then almost stop, speed up then almost stop, etc?

      That's because of the human error... (and you see the "slowdown" move in the opposite direction of traffic flow, as has been shown on video).

    24. Re:Good by lgw · · Score: 1

      Tax the car, tax the street, tax the tires, tax the seat.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    25. Re:Good by lgw · · Score: 1

      If you want safety, you should stay inside in your padded safe room. The world is not the place for that.

      Pave the Earth! You'll be a pit slave while I drive my atomic hypercar under the light of the chromed moon.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    26. Re: Good by lkernan · · Score: 1

      True, but networked computers would also be able to coordinate their entrances onto congested roadways. Quality of Service scheduling could be applied to cars on the road just like it currently gets applied to packets on a telephone network. (assuming nobody reprograms their software to 'cheat', anyway ;))

      Sounds good until you get routed via China on your commute or find a firewall in the middle of the freeway.

    27. Re: Good by JakeBurn · · Score: 2

      From someone who has driven over a million miles in my life it is absolutely not a myth. Maybe saying all traffic jams but I've watched entire stretches of highway have a collective drop of over 30 mph just because of a few stupid people hitting their brakes too hard. Its easily proven as well. Start paying attention around traffic lights with a lot of cars and without exception, the lane with morons stomping the gas will quickly become the lane with the morons over-breaking to compensate and the lane where more cars than not are no longer accelerating at all. You can watch it cascade down the lane for dozens of cars. I've also driven through Atlanta, GA with wall to wall cars, more than I've ever seen across six lanes of highway and everyone doing over 65mph. One jackass cut someone off then three entire lanes dropped to less than 30mph as everyone saw one guy break then panicked.

    28. Re: Good by rsborg · · Score: 1

      Once a road is at capacity, no amount of 'perfect' driving is going to prevent the addition of more cars from causing traffic slowdowns and eventually traffic jams.

      True, but networked computers would also be able to coordinate their entrances onto congested roadways. Quality of Service scheduling could be applied to cars on the road just like it currently gets applied to packets on a telephone network. (assuming nobody reprograms their software to 'cheat', anyway ;))

      Your throwaway joke is actually a very valid concern - either we get this kind of harmonious behavior with authoritarian lockdown on car modifications and (ie, car company and government nirvana), or we get a similar amount of traffic issues as we currently have, but caused by bugs, faulty/skipped maintenance and rogue players (ie, either hacked systems, or car companies that subtly cheat or allow cheating by negligence).

      Of course, that's all assuming your average jesusland politician doesn't come out and say "all of these cars must be built in my state or God will take offense against the perversity of driverless cars".

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    29. Re:Good by pspahn · · Score: 2

      ...tell me when I am potentially doing something risky.

      You mean like riding a motorcycle?

      --
      Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
    30. Re: Good by mrsquid0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, that is a myth. Traffic jams occur when the available road space is not being used efficiently. For example, it oly takes one car to enter an interaction when there is no room to exit on the other side and the entire intersection can become locked, even if the total traffic volume is low. Traffic jams occur in many different traffic situation, not just when when the volume is high.

      --
      Just because you are paranoid does not mean that no-one is out to get you.
    31. Re: Good by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

      If the car in front has a braking distance of 50 feet and the car behinds brakes are not as good with a braking distance of 100 feet then the car behind needs to be 50 feet from the car in front, autonomous or otherwise.

      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
    32. Re:Good by Shompol · · Score: 1

      Free up the roads from people who don't see driving as a chore and make an effort to drive properly.

      That's what you should have said. That's what I thought you said. Driving is a dangerous and responsible business. It is not meant to be fun. As soon as I start to have fun, like weaving in and out of traffic I am driving dangerously. Every time you see people having fun when driving you just know they should be replaced with a robotic drone for everyone's safety. They can go and drive 70 mph on simulated city streets whenever they feel like.

    33. Re:Good by Stan92057 · · Score: 1

      I pay my taxes i pay fuel tax driver license,car registration, car Inspections i can drive what were i want. maybe the auto-car should have its own highway funded all by auto car owners. i have predicted this is just a pipe dream anyways. 1 the cars will be too expensive, second the government isn't going to give up its Tickets they fund budgets. Not enough care to give up driving there own cars. Want to go somewhere and not have to pay attention to the roads? Take the train or bus. Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be.

      --
      Jack of all trades,master of none
    34. Re: Good by Shompol · · Score: 1

      That's called a wave, a very natural phenomenon. Traffic movement resembles a liquid in many aspects, and propagation of a traffic jam as a wave is one of them.

    35. Re: Good by AdamThor · · Score: 1

      "Self-driving cars can drive much closer together"

      This part is still theoretical...

      --
      -- "Oh. This guy again."
    36. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, in my automated car that will be the default setting (except drunk driving which is hard to make a computer do unless it is water-cooled).

      i watched one of the qualifying runs for the first Grand Challenge. The truck drove down the dirt road and managed to miss all the plastic barrels, but it was weaving badly, could have easily been mistaken for a drunk driver.

    37. Re: Good by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      Traffic jams are almost a sole function of human deficiencies...

      Say people who have never seen what the streets are like in and around Boston.

    38. Re: Good by mjwx · · Score: 2

      Traffic jams are almost a sole function of human deficiencies through overreaction and slow reaction.

      No they are not. That is a myth. Traffic jams are almost a sole function of not enough road for the number of cars. Once a road is at capacity, no amount of 'perfect' driving is going to prevent the addition of more cars from causing traffic slowdowns and eventually traffic jams.

      Not traffic jams as such but traffic waves definitely are caused by over and under reaction by bad drivers.

      A scenario I see often, Car #2 brakes because he's going faster than Car #1, Car #3 panics and hits the brakes harder. This chain continues until we reach someone who was actually watching more than the car right in front of you and left enough room to ride out the wave without braking.

      Traffic waves are often confused for jams as waves often bring traffic to a halt for short periods of time.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    39. Re: Good by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      "Self-driving cars can drive much closer together"

      This part is still theoretical...

      No it isn't. Vehicle platooning has been thoroughly tested both on test tracks and on public roads.

    40. Re: Good by mjwx · · Score: 1

      If the car in front has a braking distance of 50 feet and the car behinds brakes are not as good with a braking distance of 100 feet then the car behind needs to be 50 feet from the car in front, autonomous or otherwise.

      This, your total stopping distance is not the distance you need to keep from another vehicle, nor your braking distance.

      You need to be far enough back to stop in an emergency without hitting the car in front. Because this distance varies with car type, weight, tyre condition and speed, we measure it in time as opposed to distance. 3 seconds is generally considered safe, anything less than 2 seconds is dangerous. A 2-3 second gap is good on a dry road as long as your car's in good condition (decent brakes and tyres). I typically double that for large vehicles (trucks).

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    41. Re: Good by smaddox · · Score: 1

      Practical self driving cars are going to require either huge improvements in image processing, or (IMHO more likely) ubiquitous LIDAR, which is not possible with current LIDAR technology. Current LIDAR is too easy to jam, and unable to function if there are a few similar LIDAR systems nearby. However, it's actually pretty easy to make LIDAR functional for such applications. I'm just waiting for someone to figure it out (or maybe I'll patent the solution, since no one seems to have done so yet, at least in my cursory search).

    42. Re: Good by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Traffic waves can lead to traffic jams, and frequently do during rush hours.
      One of the common causes is the propensity for touching the brakes when cresting a hilltop. Instead of preparing to brake, drivers put their foot on the brake, consciously or subconsciously thinking that gives them an edge if something appears that requires stopping. Unfortunately, it causes those behind to brake, and often harder, and you have a wave.

      Drivers: Please don't hit the brakes when cresting a hilltop. Take your foot off the gas earlier instead.
      And don't use the brake as a shortcut for turning off cruise control. The CC will have a button you can use instead. Please use it.

    43. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's great and all, but I don't see safety as a good reason to ban something or violate people's freedoms. TSA, I'm looking at you...

    44. Re: Good by lgw · · Score: 1

      My car uses a camera, and it works fine for the front view. The Google car uses a spinning camera on a mast, and it seem to work fine. Both work OK in poor visibly conditions. Why do you think LIDAR would work better - because everyone working in the field for years missed what seemed obvious to you after 30 seconds' thought? Or are there working examples?

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    45. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unlike people, autonomous cars will be able to communicate with each other. That combined with their much lower response time and greater awareness of their surroundings should certainly make the scenario you paint improbable.

    46. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At those traffic densities, a fully automated traffic system could limit the pileup to about 4-6 cars because every single car after that pileup would automatically slow down and route around the accident.

    47. Re: Good by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      That would only work if everyone maintained their cars perfectly so that, e.g. breaks operated within spec.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    48. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      India would be a good bet as well.

    49. Re:Good by Krneki · · Score: 1

      If you are alive anything you do is risky.

      --
      Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
    50. Re:Good by stud9920 · · Score: 1

      why put red lights when crossing lanes can just interlace ?

    51. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The word is brakes - spell it with me: B-R-A-K-E-S. Very good!

    52. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This article, this article, and this article claims otherwise.

      Traffic jams occurs because there are people (You can find at least ten that have posted below.) that thinks that cars are toys and that public roads are their playground. Usually they considers themselves to be above average drivers and cut corners a bit too much. This can force a better driver to slow down a bit. Since humans are very bad at accurately judging the speed of the vehicle ahead this causes an propagating oscillation through the road that in the end causes a traffic jam.

      If you read the articles you will see that the science was theorized, modeled and practically tested.

      The interesting thing is that it might not even be necessary to switch over all drivers to automatic. Adding even a small amount of self driving cars to a regular traffic jam could cause enough dampening (With the proper programming.) of the oscillation to loosen up the jam.

    53. Re: Good by DrXym · · Score: 1
      Many traffic jams are the result of screwed up traffic control systems.

      My commute takes me through a set of lights at a crossroads. They were broken for about 3 weeks and in that time there was virtually no queues to pass through the lights. Drivers proceeded very gingerly, making lots of eye contact with other drivers, used hand signs and gestures to determine priority and edged very slowly until it was clear who was next. But there was no delays. As soon as the council fixed the lights I could be stuck there for 5 minutes in a long queue because the system wasn't smart enough to cope with empty roads.

      It's interesting to think how an auto drive car would function in such a scenario. I expect it would fail miserably (how would it even know the lights were out for example?), and even if it knew it could end up nudging out into the road until several cars were intractibly stuck in the middle (since all the cars would be acting the same), or it would act like a total asshole disregarding priority or right of way. And that's just one scenario where it might screw up and cause delays.

      It's why some of the talk surrounding self driving cars is so laughably optimistic. I can easily see their use on well marked, well travelled roads like motorways where there is a certain uniformity and where self drive cars would be likely to make good progress and function properly. I don't see that being the case at all an urban environments. It's more likely that it would require manual intervention even if there was a driver assist mode which slammed on the brakes, or vehicle distance management or otherwise intervened to ensure safety.

    54. Re: Good by DrXym · · Score: 1
      Define what "greater awareness of their surroundings" even means. I might as a human know the person standing on the kerb is waiting for the bus and not likely to step out onto the road, and thus I have no reason to modify my speed. The self drive car might slow down because it has no idea. Conversely I might see a young kid running along the pavement who I think *might* run into the road and therefore I slow down when the self drive is oblivious and might remain oblivious due to the kid running out suddenly at the last moment from between cars..

      That doesn't mean the human is better btw, and it's easy to envisage a driver assisted mode that ensures greater safety than driver alone. e.g. if I'm driving on a motorway perhaps the car automatically regulates my speed and distance for me. But neither does it mean that self drive cars are the ultimate in safety either. Some of the assumptions of what they will be capable of are frankly ludicrous.

    55. Re: Good by slim · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Not only is it not theoretical, but it's been tested on public roads.

      One initiative that doesn't go the whole way towards fully autonomous vehicles is the road train. A human-driven lead car shuttles back and forth the length of a multi-lane highway. As a driver of a suitably equipped car, you can drive up behind it, press a button, and become part of the convoy. The lead car now controls your car - brakes, steering, acceleration. When you're approaching your destination, press the button again, the controller will adjust the distances between you and the cars in front and behind, allowing you space to resume control and leave the convoy. Then the cars that were behind you will move in to fill your space.

      The neat thing about this is that because the cars behind don't need to anticipate the movements of the lead car, they can be *much* closer together. Close enough to benefit from slipstream, which has a significant effect on fuel economy.

    56. Re: Good by dave420 · · Score: 1

      That's not a camera on the top - Google uses LIDAR.

    57. Re: Good by RaceProUK · · Score: 1

      It's interesting to think how an auto drive car would function in such a scenario. I expect it would fail miserably (how would it even know the lights were out for example?), and even if it knew it could end up nudging out into the road until several cars were intractibly stuck in the middle (since all the cars would be acting the same), or it would act like a total asshole disregarding priority or right of way. And that's just one scenario where it might screw up and cause delays.

      If only there was some sort of wireless communication technology that would allow the cars to 'talk' to each other...

      --
      No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
    58. Re: Good by DrXym · · Score: 1
      Sure. Assuming there is a standard protocol where vehicles are capable of polling every other vehicle in their immediate vicinity for their intention, negotiating the order and extricating themselves in a coordinated fashion. And assuming there are no human drivers, cyclists, pedestrians, obstacles, natural flows of traffic etc. to complicate the issue into an almost intractable problem. And that's just one scenario of many that happens every single day.

      People who believe self driving cars could cope by themselves with those conditions are living in cloud cuckoo land. I'm quite prepared to believe that they could work on main roads and motorways. I'm quite prepared to believe that they could fall back to a driver assisted mode for other times. But they would require an unimpaired driver at the wheel and I don't see that changing any time soon. And sure as hell not by 2020.

    59. Re:Good by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      Silly citizen, governments add revenue sources, they never remove or replace them!

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    60. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If all the computer cars break and accelerate at the same time, there wouldn't need to be much space between them. If one car has a computer failure and doesn't break when it's supposed to, things won't be any safer by having cars further apart - on the contrary, that will just leave more time to increase the speed differential to the car in front.

    61. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Think about the implications for the environment. Consistent easy acceleration saving fuel

      Yes, per mile driven, but I think there's every reason to think that once everyone has their own chauffeur a lot more miles will be driven. I know there are trips I might take if I didn't have to do the driving myself, and it would reduce the incentive to move to the urban core if your hour plus commute was basically you sitting in your vehicle eating breakfast and watching tv.

    62. Re:Good by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Yep, you're totally right, "risky" sure isn't a word with a specific meaning.

    63. Re: Good by canadian_right · · Score: 1

      When did slashot become the home for whining Luddites? I've read so many posts about how the autonomous cars will suck, how they'll run over people, how they can't relieve congestion, etc...

      The fact is that people are on average terrible drivers, yes you too who thinks good driving involves fast reflexes. Peoples reflexes are slow compared to a car moving at highway speed. A computers reflexes are very fast compared to a car driving at highway speed. If the cars are also networked then things like merging will happen at full speed safely. Networked, computer driven cars will be able get much more traffic through a stretch of road: no slowing down to look at a pulled over car, no one driving at less than the maximum safe speed, no random lane changes, everyone cooperating to get everyone where they are going as efficient as possible.

      30,000 or so people die in car accidents every year in the USA, many, many more are injured, and the number of cars damaged is higher yet. Computer driven cars will cut all of that way down.

      Much like pedestrians in Quebec, pedestrians everywhere will learn to not step in front of moving cars. There is NO downside, except that the people who enjoy driving will have to do it on a track.

      This is another case of the armchair slashdotter thinking they will see the fatal flaw, without reading the article, in any idea that experts work on for years.

      Get off my lawn, you boring, anti-progress, cave dwelling, nay sayers.

      --
      Anarchists never rule
    64. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some states its not illegal to be in the left lane unless you are 10 MPH under the speed limit.

    65. Re:Good by Krau+Ming · · Score: 1

      If you get too cold I'll tax the heat, If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet.

    66. Re: Good by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      This is true except that they are greatly exacerbated by people not merging in an orderly manner and people changing lanes unnecessarily causing flowing traffic to have to stop.

    67. Re: Good by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      Slowing down traffic during congestion appears to work for human drivers. Presumably it gives them more time to react and discourages people from changing lanes (a major cause of traffic slowdowns and something with positive feedback - when the lane has to stop because someone barged in, someone 50 yards back will barge into the next lane).

      With automated vehicles, faster speeds means shorter journey time so less cars on the road at any point in time. So slowing down during congestion may not be indicated (except where necessary to ensure safety).

    68. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heck, lower the sidewalks to street level and when nobody is on them, use them as another place to drive!

      Raised sidewalks aren't a deterrent for cars to enter the sidewalk...the point is to alert blind people and others who aren't paying attention that they're entering the street and at risk of being hit. Unless automated cars can ensure that they won't hit pedestrians in the middle of the street (unlikely, as part of the point is to tighten up tolerances and avoid unnecessary stopping), sidewalks are still necessary for pedestrians.

    69. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? Are either of you able to think at all? Have you ever actually driven a car? If only there were some set of rules to use at a broken light. And yeah, I don't see any way for a computer to detect a broken light. Nope, no way at all. Probably no way for them to notice stop signs either.

    70. Re: Good by RaceProUK · · Score: 1

      That 'whoosh' is so loud, I thought it was a sonic boom.

      --
      No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
    71. Re: Good by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      So some texting jerk cuts off the lead car, causing a unpredicted collision. All of the road train cars end up in a massive pileup.
      None of the road train experiments that I have heard of were held in realistic conditions (i.e. in presence of idiots).

    72. Re: Good by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      If there was ever a city filled with deficient humans...

    73. Re: Good by holmstar · · Score: 1

      You need to maintain your car's brakes so that they do not break.

    74. Re: Good by holmstar · · Score: 1

      There wouldn't be a collision so long as all vehicles can slow down quickly enough. (the entire train would begin braking at the same time as the lead car) If the lead car collides, then the entire train could automatically attempt evasive action, such as diverting to the shoulder if possible. But certainly accidents could happen, just as they do today. People will come to grips with the risk, just as they do for other forms of travel where they are not in control, such as trains and aircraft.

    75. Re: Good by holmstar · · Score: 1

      Also, often people do not quickly compensate for hills, causing their car to slow down as it climbs. There's a hill on my commute that almost always causes a back-up that immediately clears after the crest. It's not even a particularly steep grade.

    76. Re:Good by holmstar · · Score: 1

      It's perfectly possible to have fun and drive responsibly at the same time, in the correct place and with an appropriate vehicle. I agree that city streets and rush hour freeways are not that place, but an un-congested highway on-ramp can be fun, as can a well maintained curvy rural highway with good visibility. If you've never experienced that, then too bad for you.

    77. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In some states it's not illegal at all, just really freaking annoying to everyone around you.

    78. Re:Good by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      If you want safety, you should stay inside in your padded safe room.

      I assume you're removed the seat belts, ABS, and airbags from your car? There are always dangers, but jumping headfirst into completely unnecessary danger is just retarded. Driving is for transportation. If you want to drive for fun, keep it on the race track.

    79. Re: Good by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      I am not convinced we will see a big difference in congestion. Some improvement yes, but not as much as many people think. Of course, it is improbable that we will see an increase in congestion either. All the other reasons I agree with, and still make me want a self driving car.

    80. Re: Good by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      That is the point. Human exacerbate a problem of not enough road for the number of vehicles. Then people assume that it is the humans that are the root of the problem. When you are on a 4 lane road that is at or near capacity and traveling at the speed limit, and then the road narrows to two lanes, there is no amount of perfect driving that will keep the traffic from backing up. It will back up for humans, and it will back up for computer controlled cars. It will back up faster for humans than computer controlled cars, but it will still back up.

      On the plus side, if the cars are computer controlled, maybe we can get the roads fixed where it is the design that causes the congestion.

    81. Re:Good by helix23011 · · Score: 1

      Right now Googles car only does high way driving. It would be interesting to see how a smart car would negotiate New York Traffic and things of that nature.

    82. Re: Good by Jeremi · · Score: 1

      Much like pedestrians in Quebec, pedestrians everywhere will learn to not step in front of moving cars.

      More likely pedestrians will learn that they can step in front of moving cars, since a computer-controlled car is more likely to respond in time (and correctly) to avoid hitting the pedestrian.

      Of course sooner or later someone will find out the hard way the limits of the software (and/or physics)... but then they've got grounds to start a lawsuit against the car manufacturer for $$$$, so that's a win too :)

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  2. Annoying by tekrat · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    All these cars will religiously follow the speed limit, boxing up roads and not permitting those of us who are in a rush to get around them. The road rage will cause accidents, I guarantee that.

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
    1. Re:Annoying by aitikin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So because the car's going to follow the law, you're upset?

      --
      "Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
    2. Re:Annoying by DougOtto · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Only if it's in the left lane.

      --
      Solving Unix problems since 1989...
    3. Re: Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What would you be in a rush for? You can just leave earlier and do whatever you have to while the car drives. Need to sleep an extra half hour? Finish that homework? Study for a certification? Do it all while the car drives you.

      It would also be likely that cars will be able to drive centimeters away from each other and have narrower lanes while adding some as well, making for faster commutes all the way around.

    4. Re:Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So a car that keeps you from driving like a dork makes you upset???

    5. Re:Annoying by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 1

      Autonomous cars will improve traffic considerably, because they can safely tailgate other autonomous cars.

      Have you considered not driving like an asshole?

    6. Re:Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Millions of people die in car accidents each year, and your response is "cars following the speed limit are annoying".

    7. Re:Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The road rage will cause accidents, I guarantee that.

      I for one hope that the road raging idiots will earn Darwin awards as a result.

    8. Re:Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better than having them all drive like you.......

    9. Re:Annoying by American+AC+in+Paris · · Score: 1

      All these cars will religiously follow the speed limit, boxing up roads and not permitting those of us who are in a rush to get around them. The road rage will cause accidents, I guarantee that.

      These accidents will likely be mostly minor fender-benders that result in the road-ragers losing their licenses (unless, of course, they get a self-driving car.) Or, That, and you'd also probably see road-ragers driving themselves off the road and into fixed objects. The automatic cars'll generally do a pretty good job of avoiding serious collisions--far better than even a reasonably skillled human driver could.

      If a person is so lacking in maturity and self-control that they'd start ramming automated cars for not letting them treat the road as their own personal speedway, it's highly unlikely that these individuals are able to conduct themselves in a mature manner in today's traffic. We're not looking at a substantial net-up of people who have no business driving a car, y'know?

      --

      Obliteracy: Words with explosions

    10. Re:Annoying by geekoid · · Score: 1

      IT will be within n their tolerance to stop, unlike that human jerk behind you.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    11. Re:Annoying by mark-t · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Cars in the left lane are supposed to follow the law too.

    12. Re:Annoying by geekoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You are causing the accidents. YOU are rushing. YOU are driving unsafe. YOU are risking other behind you.

      It's not everyone else fault you can't get to work on time. If you cant control it, then you should have your license revoked until you have attended anger management classes.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    13. Re:Annoying by geekoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is no rule that says the left lane is for speeding.
      The left lane is NOT a speeding lane. It is not you personal driving lane. It is not their responsibility that you can't drive legally.

      Suck it up and stop causing accident, you jerk.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    14. Re: Annoying by mark-t · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Autonomous cars still have a minimum stopping distance, and it would be unwise for an autonomous car to tailgate even another autonomous car since unexpected situations which can force an emergency brake (such as a child running out onto the road) can still arise. If the car ahead had to stop unexpectedly, a distance of only a few centimeters would not be sufficient for your own vehicle to safely stop in time, even though you've taken human reaction time entirely out of the equation. I expect, instead, that minimum car spacing may still be reduced... but still somehow be a function of the posted speed limit.

    15. Re:Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      left lane or as drivers call them, passing lanes, allow for faster moving traffic. unless of course you are driving a prius then they are your god given right to drive at 15 mph below the limit.

    16. Re:Annoying by Obfuscant · · Score: 1, Interesting

      So because the car's going to follow the law, you're upset?

      The quickest way to create a traffic jam and an immense road hazard is to follow every driving law to the letter.

      In the past, truck drivers have done this when they want to make a statement about a new law they don't like. All it takes is one for each lane. Each truck going exactly the truck speed limit (often lower than auto). The backup goes for miles. Even if they obey a law that prohibits trucks in the left-most lane of a more than 2 lane freeway, it still blocks traffic quite well.

      If every autodrive car follows the laws to the letter, there will be no increase in traffic capacity. They'll all be going the same speed, and since they aren't passing, they'll all be in the right lane. Plenty of room for real drivers to play.

      Now, the question is, will they all be obeying the laws? Will each vehicle computer do an analysis on its own driving ability and the outside conditions and determine the maximum safe speed? Will this become a sales point? "Our cars are safer than brand X at higher speeds under the same conditions, so you'll get where you want to go faster?"

    17. Re:Annoying by PRMan · · Score: 0

      Even CHP officers regularly admit that you should not go merely the speed limit in the "fast lane". It's dangerous.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    18. Re:Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A car should only be in the left lane for overtaking or for turning left. That's a law as well, but the police rarely bother with it.

    19. Re:Annoying by PRMan · · Score: 1

      But if there are enough automated cars (everyone but you), you can go ahead and try to ram them. You won't succeed because they'll just get out of your way to avoid the collision. Talk about open roads... :-)

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    20. Re:Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I like the European approach: if some passes you on the right, you get a ticket for blocking traffic. They may get a ticket for speeding, but you are still blocking traffic.

    21. Re:Annoying by mark-t · · Score: 1

      They won't all be in the right lane when any need to make a left turn. I, for one, prefer to get into the lane I know I will ultimately need to be in as early as possible and remain there, instead of waiting for it to come up because, particularly in heavier traffic, I may not have the opportunity to lane-change when I am closer to the point where I am making the left turn.

    22. Re:Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get over yourself, you self-righteous asshole. I'm sure the halo, hovering over your car, prevents you from driving over the speed limit from time to time. FFS

    23. Re:Annoying by flimflammer · · Score: 1

      You're a pretty good example for future laws mandating certain "drivers" only being in autonomous cars. If you can't handle the rules of driving because you're in a hurry, you should not be behind the wheel.

    24. Re:Annoying by mark-t · · Score: 1

      I get into the left lane whenever I know I will need to be turning left at some point up ahead, regardless of how far away it is, since I do not know for sure whether I will have the opportunity to safely move into the left lane when I get closer to where I'm going to turn.

    25. Re:Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lemme guess DAD in PORTLAND,

      You drive a Suburu..

    26. Re:Annoying by lgw · · Score: 1, Informative

      No, they're really not. In most states that's actually explicit - you can get a ticket for "impeding the flow of traffic" or somesuch if you drive at the speed limit in the left lane when the natural flow of traffic is faster. Yes, that does mean the police can give you a ticket either way, which shouldn't surprise you at this point.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    27. Re:Annoying by mark-t · · Score: 1

      They won't just get out of the way if they cannot do so legally and safely.

    28. Re:Annoying by mark-t · · Score: 2

      It probably depends on your jurisdiction... where I live, you'd *NEVER* get a ticket for "impeding flow of traffic" if you were driving the speed limit, regardless of which lane you were in.

    29. Re:Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and if you're not willing to keep up with the flow of traffic...you're part of the problem.

    30. Re:Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Listen you self-righteous autistic fucktard, it's the PASSING lane. Don't treat the going past the speeding limit as some type of ethical travesty like speeding. Go to the right and let the cops worry about it, retard.

      Especially since asshole like you will go 5 mph over until you get behind the little old lady, and you scream at her slow ass until she moves over, and call her every name in the book. Then a guy going 5 mph over your speed forces you to pull over, and you'll look dopey and indignant and call that guy a crazy lunatic that shouldn't be on the road while you stare at him passing by with a frothy mouth.

      Go fuck yourself because it's readily apparent no one else is doing so.

    31. Re:Annoying by mark-t · · Score: 1

      If the "flow of traffic" is speeding, I don't really give a damn. I will drive at the posted limit, barring slippery road conditions that necessitate I need to drive slower.

      If somebody rear-ends me, my insurance company will happily sue them while I get my car repaired at no cost to myself.

    32. Re:Annoying by lgw · · Score: 1

      The laws mainly target multiple people driving side-by-side at the speed limit as some sort of protest, but yeah I'm sure it depends on jurisdiction.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    33. Re: Annoying by gnasher719 · · Score: 0

      Autonomous cars still have a minimum stopping distance, and it would be unwise for an autonomous car to tailgate even another autonomous car since unexpected situations which can force an emergency brake (such as a child running out onto the road) can still arise. If the car ahead had to stop unexpectedly, a distance of only a few centimeters would not be sufficient for your own vehicle to safely stop in time, even though you've taken human reaction time entirely out of the equation. I expect, instead, that minimum car spacing may still be reduced... but still somehow be a function of the posted speed limit.

      Consider cars communicating with each other, so they brake absolutely simultaneously. Next, if they are bumper on bumper, there is actually no speed difference. Even if the first car brakes a little bit harder than the following car, there will be no damage at all; the second car would just be pushing the first one a little bit. The cars being a few meters apart would actually be worse, because there would be some speed difference when the second car catches up.

    34. Re:Annoying by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Ah yes... the ancient tactic of insulting a person you disagree with to somehow discredit their position.

      How quaint.

    35. Re:Annoying by jittles · · Score: 1

      It probably depends on your jurisdiction... where I live, you'd *NEVER* get a ticket for "impeding flow of traffic" if you were driving the speed limit, regardless of which lane you were in.

      I've never seen someone get a ticket for this in the US, even though I believe they should. I've heard from friends in Germany that they will ticket a driver impeding traffic over one who is speeding, when both violations are visible to the officer.

    36. Re:Annoying by Princeofcups · · Score: 1

      There is no rule that says the left lane is for speeding.
      The left lane is NOT a speeding lane. It is not you personal driving lane. It is not their responsibility that you can't drive legally.

      Suck it up and stop causing accident, you jerk.

      Righteous indignation is stronger that the fucking "slower traffic keep right" signs and laws, I guess. BTW, the posted speed limits are always 5-10 MPH LESS than the speed that is considered safe for any road. The "cheat" is built into the system. Anyone who insists on staying under the posted limit and feels it their duty to slow down traffic behind them should seriously consider changing their meds.

      --
      The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
    37. Re: Annoying by lgw · · Score: 1

      Next, if they are bumper on bumper, there is actually no speed difference. Even if the first car brakes a little bit harder than the following car, there will be no damage at all; the second car would just be pushing the first one a little bit.

      You be surprised how easily you can lose control with a very slight tap or push from the rear, especially as you begin heavy braking. You can compensate somewhat by designing the car around the need to do this, but it's a hard problem. Even a fairly weak pull or push from the rear has a magnified effect in making the care more or less stable in braking and cornering.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    38. Re:Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't do the crime if you can't do the time, it's really that simple. Adhering to a just law is more important than adhering to unwritten social rules.

    39. Re:Annoying by aitikin · · Score: 1

      There are a vast majority of states where the left lane on multi-lane highways, by law, is for faster traffic and to be passing only. But, if you get a ticket for that, without the person getting a ticket for speeding, you should have no issue getting the charge dropped.

      --
      "Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
    40. Re:Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you have objective evidence to show that roads can safely handle a higher speed, why don't you take this issue with other citizens to lobby the DOT to get it changed. To me it sounds like speculative rationalization that people "know the proper speed" for a given road based upon the signposted number. Let's say a 60 road is changed to become a 70 road, what to stop irregular drivers of a stretch of road to say, "I know the safe speed for this road is actually 80"?

    41. Re:Annoying by Livius · · Score: 1

      You have a bias against left-handed drive countries (of which there are many)?

    42. Re:Annoying by aitikin · · Score: 1

      Ahem. Let's revise that with some specifics and references, shall we?

      --
      "Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
    43. Re:Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure how many times it needs to be stated, but "slower traffic keep right" signs and laws don't mean traffic in the left lane can legally exceed the speed limit. And you're right, speed limits are intentionally 5-10 mph less than what is safe, but do you really think everyone on the road should be pushing the limits of what is safe? Or that what is safe is a constant? Look, I always do the "standard" 5-10 mph over the speed limit, but I never ever get pissed off because someone is going the speed limit. I might pass them and continue exceeding the speed limit like normal, but I never rant and rave that someone is obeying the law and possibly cost me 10 minutes on a 100 mile trip. And anyone who does "should seriously consider changing their meds."

    44. Re:Annoying by Shompol · · Score: 1

      Excellent. There are also different rules/customs in the city and subarbs, and sub-subarbs, but I like how slashdotters argue about their local rules being universal.

    45. Re:Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Says you. Anyone with an ounce of common sense (and a desire to stay alive) will drive at the speed posted on the road. It's not a game. Just a way to get from A to B.

    46. Re: Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Next, if they are bumper on bumper, there is actually no speed difference. Even if the first car brakes a little bit harder than the following car, there will be no damage at all; the second car would just be pushing the first one a little bit.

      You be surprised how easily you can lose control with a very slight tap or push from the rear, especially as you begin heavy braking. You can compensate somewhat by designing the car around the need to do this, but it's a hard problem. Even a fairly weak pull or push from the rear has a magnified effect in making the care more or less stable in braking and cornering.

      A bump, yes, but what if the cars are stuck together with, say, electromagnet?

      With autonomous cars that communicates with each other, it is possible to have purpose make attach points for two or more cars to physically stick together, forming a train. And if the first car needs to brake, the cars behind can brake with the reaction time of the speed of light (a signal from the first car). And difference in braking force will be spread through the train through the attach points, which would be designed to take the stress. Spinning would become almost impossible as the whole chain of cars will adjust and coordinate their individual braking with the speed of a computer.

      Autonomous cars will only get safer with time, while manual driving won't improve much as you get new drivers in the road every day.

    47. Re:Annoying by mjwx · · Score: 2

      There is no rule that says the left lane is for speeding.
      The left lane is NOT a speeding lane. It is not you personal driving lane. It is not their responsibility that you can't drive legally.

      Suck it up and stop causing accident, you jerk.

      Reading this is funny considering that for me, the left lane is the outside lane.

      But your point stands. There is no designated speeding lane. Some laws dictate that you cant be in the inside lane if you're not overtaking but this varies.

      Generally speaking though, on any dual carriageway (multi lane road) its just common god damn courtesy to not drive in the inside lane without a good reason (overtaking, turning, etc...). Courtesy isn't codified in law, but it's still a good bloody idea. The inside lane is not anyone's personal lane, be it for speeding or going slow.

      Then again, courtesy is not that common

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    48. Re: Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Assuming the autonomous cars can communicate, the minimum distance could be tiny as an entire line of autonomous cars could brake at virtually the same moment.

      However large distances would still need to be maintained by human driven or non-communicating autonomous cars.

    49. Re: Annoying by lgw · · Score: 1

      Well, you couldn't just "stick them together" in any normal way, because cars shift significantly over their wheels under g-force in any direction, will hit bumps at different times, etc. You need something like a trailer hitch, or the actual hitches used to couple cars for towing.

      Actual trains brake slowly, as you have to brake mostly from the rear and it takes time for weight shifting and "stretching" and you can only safely build braking force slowly. a line of couple cars would likely take noticeably longer to stop. Semi-tractors can stop very effectively by braking from the trailer, but that's a special case (most of the weight is on the rear trucks, only 2 nodes, brake bias carefully set, and they still jackknife in the rain).

      Finally, note that a computer would likely do this all worse than connected air brakes on a train or road train, as the computer has very little data to work with, and air brakes equalize braking pressure very well (and every "car" has the same size tires and brakes).

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    50. Re: Annoying by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      You're right. The left lane is a passing lane.

      I don't know where you are, but where I am slower traffic is supposed to keep right. There are signs that say so even.

    51. Re:Annoying by FuzzNugget · · Score: 1

      So because your computer's going to follow the law, you're upset?

    52. Re:Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are the one breaking the law when you speed. If you believe that the law is wrong, why don't you get the law fixed so that you are no longer unlawful? Laws are not set in stone, they can get changed when people decide it's ready for a change.

    53. Re: Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Missing the point. Your car will receive the brake command from the lead vehicle, and brake with the exact same deceleration. You indeed won't stop in centimeters. You both will stop in 20 meters, keeping the distance at a fixed 20 centimeters the whole time. Modern cars have 4 wheel ABS sensors, which are adequate enough for this purpose.

      And yes, we also can use those sensors to estimate the maximum possible car deceleration, so the whole road train can determine spacing on a car by car basis.
      This will be independent of the posted speed limit - why would that matter? - but it will automatically take into account road conditions. On slippery roads, spacing will be adjusted.

    54. Re:Annoying by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      I've never seen someone get a ticket for this in the US, even though I believe they should. I've heard from friends in Germany that they will ticket a driver impeding traffic over one who is speeding, when both violations are visible to the officer.

      No, they ticket both. One for not keeping right, one for speeding and possibly for tailgating as well.

      The latter is the bigger fine.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    55. Re:Annoying by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      I live in Europe, it doesn't work that way.

      Yes, if you're in the left lane for an extended amount of time and people pass you on the right, you'll get a ticket. Everyone who passed you on the right will get a ticket as well. But if you blast by someone on the right as soon as the smallest gap opens up, you'll be the only one getting a ticket, and a bigger one at that.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    56. Re:Annoying by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      No, you self-centered ignoramus. The speed limit is the UPPER LIMIT of how fast you're allowed to go on a given stretch of road.

      It's usually set based on the average driver in an average car on a wet road, giving a sensible safety margin on dry roads. It is NOT your prerogative to decide when to break this limit and by how much. There is NO SUCH thing as a "cheat" "built into the system". The limit is the limit, end of story.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    57. Re:Annoying by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      Even better: It's not a game, it's not a race, the speed limit is the law. End of story.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    58. Re:Annoying by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      I, for one, prefer to get into the lane I know I will ultimately need to be in as early as possible and remain there, instead of waiting for it to come up because, particularly in heavier traffic, I may not have the opportunity to lane-change when I am closer to the point where I am making the left turn.

      In that case, you're impeding the natural flow of traffic.

      It's not 100% your fault, drivers should always keep a 2-second following distance. This would let you change lanes in a trouble-free manner, without risking a collision. Unfortunately, people are egoistic bastards who refuse to let anyone "cut in front" of them. I've have a lot of people deliberately speed up to "close the gap" that I was trying to change lanes into. Fuck 'em, there was plenty of space when I put on my blinker and started my maneuver, so I'm going to complete it as smoothly as possible, they can honk and curse all they want.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    59. Re:Annoying by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      Ah yes, the all-powerful "flow of traffic".

      Is "the flow of traffic" above the traffic laws? No it isn't. Every action you take in traffic will have an effect on the flow, that's just how it is.

      If mark-t knows that he'll be making a left turn up ahead, he should change lanes at a reasonable distance from the turn, put on his left blinker and obey the speed limit. People who want to go faster are then welcome to overtake on the right, as mark-t is clearly signaling his intention to turn left. It really isn't that difficult to comprehend, is it?

      --
      Eat the rich.
    60. Re:Annoying by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      I replied to another comment of yours already, but something came to my mind.

      My dad says pretty much the same thing as you, that he'll get in the left lane as early as possible, because otherwise no one is going to let him change lanes. He specifically mentioned some of the roads I drive on a regular basis, as examples. I have never had any trouble getting into the left lane on any of the roads he mentioned, or any other road, for that matter. I have no idea what I'm doing differently. I check for a gap, match speeds, put on my blinker and change lanes at a reasonable speed, never had a problem with it.

      I usually drive anywere between 10km/h below the limit and about 10km/h over the limit, as shown by the speedometer in my car and depending on the conditions. Like most cars, the speedometer over-reads slightly, so my actual speed is probably somewhere around 5km/h over the actual limit. 10 over rather than 5 over, because it's far easier to place the speedometer needle right on a line at a glance instead of between two lines.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    61. Re:Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The quickest way to create a traffic jam and an immense road hazard is to follow every driving law to the letter.

      In the past, truck drivers have done this when they want to make a statement about a new law they don't like. All it takes is one for each lane. Each truck going exactly the truck speed limit (often lower than auto). The backup goes for miles.

      Not legal where I live.

    62. Re:Annoying by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      From your very own link:

      "Do higher speed limits cause more car accidents?

      No, but they do cause more severe ones. Accidents that occur at high speeds are more often fatal, since high-velocity objects collide with greater force. Overwhelmingly, studies show that freeway deaths increase with freeway speed limits."

      It's right there, black on white. Higher speeds = more fatal accidents.

      Slow the fuck down.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    63. Re:Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Laws vary, in my state you are under no legal obligation to surrender the left lane unless you are driving 10 MPH under the posted limit.

    64. Re:Annoying by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      As is "Slower traffic keep right" (depending on jurisdiction).

    65. Re:Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Being 'legally in the right' dosen't mean your not a self centered wanker.

    66. Re:Annoying by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      If traffic is heavy enough that "no one is going to let him change lanes", that's probably a fair tactic and is fairly unlikely to cause issues since heavy traffic tends to be slower anyway. If he's doing it 1-2 miles early on an empty road (as I see some do), that's bad driving.

    67. Re:Annoying by mark-t · · Score: 1

      I don't try to speed like my agenda is somehow more urgent than everyone else's on the road, who are equally legally obligated to obey the law, and *I'M* the self-centered wanker?

    68. Re:Annoying by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      Absolutely.

      But "slower traffic keep right" does not mean "get out of my way, slowpokes!".

      --
      Eat the rich.
    69. Re:Annoying by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      Yeah, in heavy traffic, it's no problem. "Heavy traffic" is actually defined pretty well in the traffic laws of this country as "traffic moving in multiple lanes, with the speed determined by the vehicles in front". I presume there is a similar definition in US traffic laws.

      The problem happens when traffic is relatively light, since by being in the left lane, he's technically blocking traffic in both lanes (depending on whether your local traffic laws permit passing on the right. It's illegal here unless to pass a vehicle that's clearly indicating an intention to turn left). Or in medium traffic where most of the vehicles want to take the same left turn. Then cars start bunching up and people get mad about others "cutting in line".

      When passing on the right carries a ~$350 fine and the loss of 1 point on my license (out of 3 total, you lose your license if you lose all 3, and you get a lost point back after 3 years have passed since you lost it), damn straight I get annoyed at people hanging out for no reason in the left lane. But it's no excuse to pass them on the right or tailgate.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    70. Re:Annoying by holmstar · · Score: 1

      No, it's not for speeding, but which is more courteous to those around you: 1. Passing someone while driving 0.001 MPH faster than them, causing the passing maneuver to occur over several miles and potentially impeding the flow of traffic. 2. Briefly accelerating by just a few MPH to pass the car on the right and then returning to your normal speed once back in the right lane. While it may be speeding, a few MPH difference is not going to make much difference in terms of increased risk, and the tempers of all are likely to remain much cooler, reducing the likelihood of people attempting dangerous passing maneuvers such as weaving two lanes over to the right to get around you.

    71. Re:Annoying by holmstar · · Score: 1

      Road speeds are set for the weakest link, typically large top-heavy vehicles. Most cars are capable of being driven safely at significantly higher speeds. Mind you, some cars are significantly more capable than others. (And most drivers are less capable than they think they are, but that's a separate issue.)

    72. Re:Annoying by holmstar · · Score: 1

      You knowingly are causing annoyance to others and have no conscience about it, so yes, you're a bit of a wanker. Legally in the right, but still a bit of a wanker.

    73. Re:Annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He shouldn't insult you. It's your method that is idiotic.

  3. What I don't get is by oodaloop · · Score: 4, Funny

    Why wouldn't Uber buy their fleet of cars from Nissan, instead of from Google?

    --
    Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    1. Re:What I don't get is by jonyen · · Score: 1

      And is the market really going to reach 100 million self-driving cars by 2035?

    2. Re:What I don't get is by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 0

      For the same reason they don't buy their web advertising from Nissan?

  4. Interference? by chris+thomas · · Score: 2

    What happens when every car uses lidar, or some other range finding technology? Won't they interfere with each other and cause problems?

    1. Re:Interference? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      No more so than a given tv remote that is made for one particular TV should also affect every other television.

    2. Re:Interference? by zlives · · Score: 1

      great so as long as no two same model cars are on the same road everything should work just fine :)

    3. Re:Interference? by ezelkow1 · · Score: 1

      hope they do a better job than the tv manufacturers do then. I have 2 in my office from 2 different manufacturers, an LG and a Vizio, and they both use the same IR codes and respond to each others remotes

    4. Re:Interference? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Nah... the signals used could easily be keyed to each individual car, say by using an encoded form of the VIN, and not responding to signals which do not contain the vehicle's own code.

    5. Re:Interference? by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      If you have one remote it works great. If you have two remotes it will still work good. If you put 100 remotes in a room and had each of them pressing buttons at the same time, you would likely start to run into unreliability due to interference from each other. (Someone more familiar with the protocol should be able to tell us how many remotes it would take to be a problem) One problem with early CFL bulbs was that they emitted IR and would sometimes cause problems with IR remotes for TVs.

    6. Re:Interference? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      True... but at the same time, cars aren't exactly tiny... the range on the signal probably wouldn't be far enough that your own car is liable to be reading the signals of hundreds of other cars at the same time.

    7. Re:Interference? by lgw · · Score: 1

      The range finding technology in my Nissan is a camera mounted behind the rear-view mirror (well, affixed to the frame, but there where it doesn't block my view and has a good angle). IIRC Nissan tried other technologies before settling on image processing, because it turns out that knowing whether that car in "front" of you is actually in your lane in a fairly important thing.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    8. Re: Interference? by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      True. I don't know if interference would be a concern in real world scenarios or not. I think it is a good question though. You likely wouldn't see 100 cars at a time, but you would be transmitting all of the time, and I would assume, transmitting at a higher power than a TV remote. Of course all of that is moot if cars are relying on vision systems. I am also pretty sure that the reason lidar took over for radar was because lidar could be more narrowly focused.

    9. Re: Interference? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      About as much as every car in the parking lot unlocks when you hit the button on your keyless entry fob.

    10. Re:Interference? by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      Just like the use of SSIDs eliminates problems with wifi signals interfering with each other.

      (To the sarcasm impaired, go lick a brick).

    11. Re: Interference? by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      The remote start on a coworker's car would set off the panic alarm on a different vehicle. Wouldn't want that happening at 70mph

    12. Re: Interference? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Use a longer code. Hey, coincidentally, we already have unique codes assigned to each vehicle!

    13. Re:Interference? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      when there's a small number of them in one area, yes.

      And the range on the signal sent by such vehicles is unlikely to be large enough that you'd be looking at more than a few others at the same time.

    14. Re:Interference? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      personally i imagine a smart grid/active road concept would work way better than an active vehicle concept. however both rely on all traffic to be using similar tech...

    15. Re:Interference? by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      Nope. Doesn't help with interference at all. It does help with confusion. Changing the channels is the way to work out interference.

    16. Re:Interference? by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      I agree. Though a completely centralized active grid would have its own issues. I suspect a hybrid approach might evolve.

  5. Taxi Drivers and Truckers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Looks like taxi drivers and most truckers might be out of work in less than 10 years.

    1. Re:Taxi Drivers and Truckers by Spectre · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Freight hauling would be a great use-case for these ... no mandatory rest periods which means much more effective use of time getting from location to location. If larger roads had dedicated freight lanes where the effective speed limit could be lower, then the extra "drive time" could be used to conserve fuel and road damage by operating freight vehicles at something a bit lower than typical highway speed.

      --
      "Flame away, I wear asbestos underwear"
    2. Re:Taxi Drivers and Truckers by Stan92057 · · Score: 1

      There will always be a rest period for truck drivers auto driven or not. Ya still have to be in the truck, you still have to refuel the truck and have lunch, take a piss, eat have time off. what you describe is more like a prison then working.Not going to happen dude what you wish for can already be done by train.

      --
      Jack of all trades,master of none
    3. Re:Taxi Drivers and Truckers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are going to make special freight cars and lanes, consider trains. They do way less road damage, use way less fuel, and don't need any fancy tech.

    4. Re:Taxi Drivers and Truckers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's called a "Railroad". Perfect use case for autonomous vehicles, too. They're nearly there, anyway.

    5. Re: Taxi Drivers and Truckers by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Good. There are few more obnoxious drivers than cabs. And truckers aren't far behind.

    6. Re:Taxi Drivers and Truckers by rsborg · · Score: 1

      Freight hauling would be a great use-case for these ... no mandatory rest periods which means much more effective use of time getting from location to location. If larger roads had dedicated freight lanes where the effective speed limit could be lower, then the extra "drive time" could be used to conserve fuel and road damage by operating freight vehicles at something a bit lower than typical highway speed.

      Hmm.. freight hauling... no rest periods... dedicated freight lanes... effective speed limit is lower.... I sense there may be something that already exists to meet these requirements.

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    7. Re:Taxi Drivers and Truckers by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      Lunch doesn't take 8 hours like sleeping for the night does.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    8. Re:Taxi Drivers and Truckers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Freight hauling would be a great use-case for these ... no mandatory rest periods which means much more effective use of time getting from location to location. If larger roads had dedicated freight lanes where the effective speed limit could be lower, then the extra "drive time" could be used to conserve fuel and road damage by operating freight vehicles at something a bit lower than typical highway speed.

      You mean, like trains?

    9. Re:Taxi Drivers and Truckers by LoRdTAW · · Score: 1

      "Not going to happen dude what you wish for can already be done by train."

      Please stop with this "trains can replace trucks" nonsense. You obviously don't understand the transportation industry so please do some research. Local, regional, long haul, truckload, Less than load, parcel, small package, expedited, vocational, specialized haul, heavy haul, private, not for hire etc. etc. These are all various branches of the trucking industry and they either dont or cant overlap with the rail industry.

    10. Re:Taxi Drivers and Truckers by Stan92057 · · Score: 1

      Did i say replace? Learn to read.I drove an 18 wheeler at one time and yes alot can be railed from one side of the country to the other much more then there is now. I also unloaded rail cars. Steel coil cars,flat steel,news print,plywood. hence my sig

      So ya.
      "Not going to happen dude what you wish for can already be done by train."

      --
      Jack of all trades,master of none
    11. Re:Taxi Drivers and Truckers by LoRdTAW · · Score: 1

      I actually don't see sigs. It wasn't abundantly clear what you were exactly saying in that sentence vs what the parent poster was asking. In reality freight is a business, if rail could enable people to make more money than they would have done so long ago. The whole "rail can move more" sounds more like wishful thinking than reality. If it were truth then you would see less O/O's running coast to coast. The problem lies in the fact that the freight business is so dynamic that trucks offer much greater flexibility than rail. Rail does have bulk on its side but LTL and even truckload carries cant use rail for a majority of their business.

    12. Re:Taxi Drivers and Truckers by Stan92057 · · Score: 1

      Not my fault they removed rails but that doesn't mean they cant be replaced. Time will tell but the auto-car is a pipe dream just like the segway was and that was a great idea too. The car shops being shut down was greed and neglect the first causing the second. Same for long distance hauling it takes far far less fuel to deliver 300 cars loaded with 2 trailers apiece. But greed is in the way meaning more money as apposed to making a good living.

      --
      Jack of all trades,master of none
  6. Nissan Plans to Sell Self-Driving Cars in 6 yrs by Donut · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is a better headline. To those of us over 35, we have been trained to think of 2020 as a long time from now.

    1. Re:Nissan Plans to Sell Self-Driving Cars in 6 yrs by mjr167 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Holy fuck... you're right. I'm not yet 30 and I see 2020 and think "more than 10 years".

    2. Re:Nissan Plans to Sell Self-Driving Cars in 6 yrs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even for younger people like me (early 20s) I still find myself measuring time from 2000. "1995? That was like five years a... okay, almost twenty."

    3. Re:Nissan Plans to Sell Self-Driving Cars in 6 yrs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a better headline. To those of us over 35, we have been trained to think of 2020 as a long time from now.

      Even 2010 is a long time from now. By 2020 we should all be using teleports.

    4. Re:Nissan Plans to Sell Self-Driving Cars in 6 yrs by Esion+Modnar · · Score: 1

      I see 2020 as the year after we start hunting Replicants. (Where's my flying car, dammit?)

      --

      They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
    5. Re:Nissan Plans to Sell Self-Driving Cars in 6 yrs by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I remember back around 1990 the BBC had a programme called Tomorrow's World that did a 2020 special. As well as self driving cars the only other thing I can remember was a levitating bed.... Well, not really a bed, you just floated there in mid air.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  7. I'm so confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    None of you are making sense.

    And don't explain it. Just stop. Stop whatever it is you're on about.

    Thanks.

  8. You're the problem, not them. by Valdrax · · Score: 5, Interesting

    All these cars will religiously follow the speed limit, boxing up roads and not permitting those of us who are in a rush to get around them. The road rage will cause accidents, I guarantee that.

    Learn to let go, then. The problem isn't the law-abiding the drivers. It's the high strung ones.

    I've driven in states where the standard is to speed heavily, and I've driven in states where the standard is to go the speed limit. In my experience, there's a lot less road rage when people are going the speed limit. There's less variation in speed when everyone is following the same standard, which means less people tailgating, less lane changes to pass, and less people cutting each other off.

    For me, eliminating the "must get there quicker" mentality sharply decreased my aggression when driving. I am a *much* better driver now than I was when I was younger and treating the highway like a personal race track and getting frustrated when someone got in the way of going the speed I wanted to go. Being forced to go the speed limit taught me to chill and let go of the little irritations that are the seeds of road rage.

    So, I say bring on the fleet of law-abiding autonomous vehicles. Maybe it'll teach the rest of you to cool your frigging heads. (And to get off my lawn!)

    --
    If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    1. Re:You're the problem, not them. by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 4, Informative

      What most people commenting on this don't realize is that roads will be less congested. A lot of time savings will be squeezed out of slowing and accellerating in heavier traffic as computers will avoid this dynamic process caused by lack of info in human drivers and slowness of response in human drivers.

      When a big group of cars all know they are computer-controlled they can move as a unit with less worry some idiot 3 cars ahead will slam on he brakes.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    2. Re: You're the problem, not them. by rolfwind · · Score: 0

      If I go the speed limit in my area, I'll get rear ended. The speed limts in my area's highway are set 10mph lower than average people actually go, seemingly put in as a way for cops to rake in cash.

      When people follow the speed limit:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoETMCosULQ

      Everyone on this thread is acting like they never exceed the speed limit and are perfect little angels at driving and exceeding it is some moralely repugnant act and that bullshit is extremely annoying.

    3. Re: You're the problem, not them. by mark-t · · Score: 2

      Getting rear-ended because you are going the speed limit while the person behind you is exceeding it is rarely anything more serious than a fender-bender... and the person who rear-ended you is going to be held to be at fault.

    4. Re: You're the problem, not them. by rolfwind · · Score: 0

      Yeah, that will really make me feel better when I waste my time in court, especially with a guy without insurance which is fairly common here.

      "Oh, at least I was following the law."

      0 fucking common sense.

    5. Re: You're the problem, not them. by mark-t · · Score: 3, Informative

      You don't have to waste any time in court... you have their driver's information, you go to your insurance company, and if necessary, they'll sue the the other driver for you to recover the costs to repair your car.

    6. Re:You're the problem, not them. by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2

      My prediction: there will be special "diamond lane" type of roads made specially for autonomous cars. At first it might be because the autonomous driving function isn't fully trusted unless it is in a controlled environment (i.e. in a separate lane). But soon it will ne used to use self-driving to best advantage: the special lane will allow autonomous vehicles to drive at 1.5x the speed limit, bumper to bumber (in clusters of 15 cars or so). The "must get there quicker" crowd will be happy to engage the autopilot if it lets them go faster.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    7. Re:You're the problem, not them. by tlambert · · Score: 1

      I am a *much* better driver now than I was when I was younger and treating the highway like a personal race track and getting frustrated when someone got in the way of going the speed I wanted to go.

      Yes, but...

      Now that you are older, aren't you going to die in the nearer term future than younger persons? I would think that would cause you to want to speed up, since you don't have that much time left, and every minute wasted on the road is another minute you aren't going to be spending with family and friends.

      Whenever I see an old person going 60 MPH in the left lane in a 65MPH zone, I ask myself "Don't they realize they don't have that much time left?".

      Whenever I see someone younger doing the same thing, and it's the time of day that people are on their way to work, I think to myself "Boy, they must really hate their job!".

      Whenever I see someone younger doing the same thing, and it's the time of day that people are on their way home from work, I think to myself "Boy, they must really hate their family!".

      Also, I'm pretty sure the main reason for busses is to drive slowly in front of you so that you never get anywhere you want to go any faster than if you had ridden the bus.

    8. Re: You're the problem, not them. by Valdrax · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If I go the speed limit in my area, I'll get rear ended. The speed limts in my area's highway are set 10mph lower than average people actually go, seemingly put in as a way for cops to rake in cash.

      The highway speeds in my state are pretty much the same as the rest of the country as far as I've seen when driving across it: 65-70 MPH on long interstates between cities, 55 MPH on interstates in urban areas, and 45 MPH on "highways" that actually have businesses along the side of them. I've been in 23 states, and I haven't really seen any that deviate much from that -- except mountainous areas and parts of Utah (where it's 80 MPH). The difference isn't the posted numbers; the difference is the enforcement and the driving culture.

      Where I live, no one is going to actually hit your car for driving the speed limit. They'll just get on your tail and ride you. As long as you stay out of the left lane, that's probably all you'll ever see. If you don't, you may get flashing headlights or people zipping around you and cutting you off on the way back into the lane. After all, they don't really want to get into an accident either, much less one where they're at fault; they just want to express their displeasure in a passive-aggressive way.

      So, I think your fears are a bit overblown there. Stop giving into peer pressure. Or at least, minimize the amount you do give in. I do about 5 over in the right lane, and I only get tailgated maybe about 2-3 times a day. I'm on cruise control, so I just ignore them and get on with my life, and they usually pass eventually.

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    9. Re: You're the problem, not them. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most states have absolute shared fault unless one car is completely stopped or one car is backing. So, going the speed limit and causing an accident will result in cost and points.

    10. Re:You're the problem, not them. by Valdrax · · Score: 1

      Now that you are older, aren't you going to die in the nearer term future than younger persons? I would think that would cause you to want to speed up, since you don't have that much time left, and every minute wasted on the road is another minute you aren't going to be spending with family and friends.

      Pfft, no. See, I used to make what's about a 75 minute drive at the speed limit every weekend to see my family. The difference between driving at the speed limit or driving 10-15 MPH over was only about 10 minutes or so. The difference in how long it takes me to get home from work or vice versa at those speeds is at most The risk of injury or tickets isn't worth that. Those minutes can be taken out of other things that don't cost my safety, and I think my loved ones would appreciate me still being around to see them.

      But let's not pretend that the desperate *need* to spend as much time with your family is what motivates speeding. It's just impatience. Well, I've got plenty of that too, which is why I look forward to a time in which my attention can be spent on better things than driving -- that horrible mix of tedium combined with the need for alertness to keep from getting killed by some other driver.

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    11. Re: You're the problem, not them. by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Not where I live. Unless the vehicle in front is actually backing up, being rear-ended is always taken to mean that the rear driver was following too closely.

    12. Re: You're the problem, not them. by rolfwind · · Score: 1

      You don't have to waste any time in court... you have their driver's information

      HAHAHAHA! I can't believe you're being modded up with this delusional advice. If they don't have insurance, and it's a fender bender as you say, they will try to drive away. I have seen it happen before.

      Thanks for the fairy tale version of events though.

    13. Re:You're the problem, not them. by lgw · · Score: 1

      I fully expect existing HOV lanes to become autonomous-only lanes in my lifetime. But don't expect much higher speed limits, and the whole bumper-to-bumper thing doesn't actually work. Still, you'll be consistently at the speed most people drive in California, and the tailgating distance that is normal in California, except you'll be safe and legal, so that's a real step forward.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    14. Re: You're the problem, not them. by mark-t · · Score: 0

      I suspect I've been modded up because it's not delusional, as you seem to believe. It's a trivial matter to notice and remember somebody's license plate if they try to speed away after a collision, and that will get them into even more trouble.

    15. Re: You're the problem, not them. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're scared of people without insurance who are neglecting their duty to society? Perhaps you should get off the road if you fear such people would cost you too much money. What's the difference between taking the other guy to court by yourself and asking your insurance company to do it on your behalf?

    16. Re: You're the problem, not them. by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Getting rear-ended because you are going the speed limit while the person behind you is exceeding it is rarely anything more serious than a fender-bender... and the person who rear-ended you is going to be held to be at fault.

      Erm. Getting rear ended at the lights is usually enough to put your car out of commission for a while.

      At the very best, at the speed limit of 60KPH you're looking at a serious bumper repair. Possibly worse (my car has fins under the bumper to produce more downforce, those are damn expensive to replace as my cars been out of production for 6 years). Even just hitting your average hatch, that is a few grand to replace.

      At worst, you'll bend the chassis and that's a complete write off in my country.

      Yep, it's all the responsibility of the tool who hits me (and I have a dash cam in case the tool does a hit and run) but the inconvenience of having my car taken off the road and possibly even having to go buy another car.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    17. Re:You're the problem, not them. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your problem was your attitude and your adrenaline level, not your speed. It is quite possible to drive safely and responsibly at high speeds in most cars that can attain them these days, unlike in days past when the tires were not rated for better than 120 mph for more than a few miles, among other things.

      Not legally, but safely and responsibly. Conversely, you can you can fall asleep in no time at 55-70, with the hypnotic slap of tires against Interstate expansion joints.

      Some highways are deceptive, though. I-16 from Macon, Ga. to Savannah is one. Seems like you could just fire up the detector and open 'er up, like the big Benz with State Senator plates that passed me one night doing about 130. No worries about the GSP for him, I guess. Think that was the same night about a 12-point buck nearly came through the windshield of the little 914 I was doing about 70 in. Missed me by *that* much. Not much you, me, or Nissan automaton can do about things like that. Common occurence in this neck of the woods, too. People constanly hit or get hit by deer around here. .

      Sounds like you've been drinking the "Super Speeder" kool-aid popular with grandstanding politicians and fine-happy courts, though. Sure you're not a cop? :-)

    18. Re: You're the problem, not them. by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Depends on your insurance, I guess... with comprehensive, you'll pay a deductible for hit and runs, but that will get refunded if they ever catch the person (which I have even seen happen when somebody I know was a victim of a hit and run), I've also always received complementary usage of a vehicle provided for by the garage while my car is being repaired, so I don't even end up without a car for any period (but to be fair, the vehicles they provide are pretty much jalopies compared to my own).

    19. Re:You're the problem, not them. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      automated cars will look around with radar or infrared or .... and will see the deer coming

      so actually, they will help in that situation

    20. Re: You're the problem, not them. by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      If I go the speed limit in my area, I'll get rear ended. The speed limts in my area's highway are set 10mph lower than average people actually go, seemingly put in as a way for cops to rake in cash.

      Bull. Shit.

      The speed limits are not set 10mph below the average speed on the roads. What's really happening is that people see the speed limit and arbitrarily decide that speeding 10mph above the limit is "perfectly safe", based on their own sense of entitlement.

      Thus they're breaking the law, and the cops fine them for it. Easy as that.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    21. Re: You're the problem, not them. by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      You cannot ever be at fault for an accident where you're rear-ended if you're driving at the speed limit, staying in your lane and generally driving in a safe manner.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    22. Re: You're the problem, not them. by rolfwind · · Score: 1

      It's delusional because instead of following the advice of "When in Rome" and minimize wasted time, you advocate all this do-gooder shit and when some shit results and hope for the best but unlikely result.

    23. Re: You're the problem, not them. by mark-t · · Score: 1

      "Shit" results are not commensurate with my own experience, nor anyone else that I personally know.

    24. Re:You're the problem, not them. by Valdrax · · Score: 1

      Your problem was your attitude and your adrenaline level, not your speed.

      Well, true, but I find the two are highly correlated in other drivers as well. The most aggressive drivers on the road are almost always the fastest. It is possible to be a safe, fast driver, but much of what motivates people to drive so fast in the first place plays into being unsafe -- impatience, competitiveness, disregard of the the law "because I know better," thrill seeking, etc.

      Missed me by *that* much. Not much you, me, or Nissan automaton can do about things like that. Common occurence in this neck of the woods, too. People constanly hit or get hit by deer around here.

      Yeah, I know. Same in my neck of the woods too. I lost a side mirror once to a deer that bumped into me from the side when it bolted in the same direction I was traveling and then swerved with me, when I tried to slow down and give it some room. I also danged near got killed by a 8-12 point buck crossing a highway in the fog. One of the scariest moments in my life.

      I wonder how they're going to deal with that too. A driverless cars's lidar system should be able to spot a deer much better than a human can, but how are they going to filter for false positives?

      Sounds like you've been drinking the "Super Speeder" kool-aid popular with grandstanding politicians and fine-happy courts, though. Sure you're not a cop? :-)

      Of course not. And you can trust this, because cops can't lie when people ask them if they're a cop. Look it up, it's on the internet.

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    25. Re:You're the problem, not them. by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      I agree. When I speed, it's mostly because the drive is kinda boring otherwise. If I could occupy myself with something other than driving, I'd happily do so.

      Of course, even better would be eliminating the drive completely and telecommuting. Why isn't that being encouraged more?

    26. Re:You're the problem, not them. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For me, eliminating the "must get there quicker" mentality sharply decreased my aggression when driving.

      What's worse is you're not going to save any time speeding in traffic; city speeds are not controled by the signs posting the limit, but by the traffic lights. Racing to a red light will not get you there a second faster. Even a 100 mile trip on the interstate, if the speed limit is 65 and you do 75, you've saved less than ten minutes. Speeding is stupid.

    27. Re:You're the problem, not them. by holmstar · · Score: 1

      Though, if the average speed of traffic is significantly higher than your speed, then you are likely actually less safe. The increase in speed you would have to make to match would increase crash risk slightly compared to everyone driving at a lower speed, and would slightly increase crash intensity, but a significant difference in the speed of traffic increases crash risk significantly. Also, at speeds above 40 or so, all crashes are pretty violent. So 5-10 MPH isn't going to matter that much at highway speeds.

    28. Re:You're the problem, not them. by holmstar · · Score: 1

      if the speed limit is 55, and you go 65, then you save 10 minutes over a 60 mile daily commute. Over a year, that's over 60 hours of extra time spent in traffic if you stick to the speed limit. If you work an 8 hour day, and sleep for 8 hours, then that's the same as adding 7.5 days of free time to your year. I'm not saying you should speed, but all those 5 minutes/trip do add up.

  9. The main obstacle isn't technological by BobSutan · · Score: 3, Informative

    The main obstacle to self-driving cars isn't technological, it's cultural. Even if they get a commercially viable product on the road in 2020, it'll be at least a generation of these things being on the roads before people become comfortable enough with the technology to trust their lives to it en mass. And that doesn't even speak to the costs involved. High end luxury cars get the tech first and it trickles down, eventually. Factor that in with the cultural issues and we're probably not going to see widespread adoption of self-driving cars until 2050 or beyond.

    --
    "On a scale from 1 to 10, people are stupid"
    1. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

      The main obstacle to self-driving cars isn't technological, it's cultural. Even if they get a commercially viable product on the road in 2020, it'll be at least a generation of these things being on the roads before people become comfortable enough with the technology to trust their lives to it en mass.

      That's assuming no catastrophic failures in that time period. All it will take is a couple major accidents caused by bad GPS/LIDAR/What-have-you, and back on the shelf it goes.

      Hell, it wouldn't even take an actual technological failure, but merely a perceived one - remember all those incidents of "unintended acceleration" in several Toyota models? Nobody could prove that it was any sort of actual malfunction, yet Toyota sales still suffered from all the bad PR.

      My issue? The potential for intentional tampering by clandestine agents - why bother arguing with dissidents, when you can literally arrange for their vehicle to have an "unfortunate accident?" Death by GPS is enough of an problem with human-controlled cars; What happens when your auto-car insists on taking that hard left over the bluff, and manual control is locked out?

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    2. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're dead wrong. There'll be mass adoption as soon as people figure out you get to watch TV or go on Facebook while you're on your way to work,

      Any company that has to pay drivers (taxis, buses, trucks, airport shuttles...) will also be straining at the leash waiting for this to happen. As soon as it's approved, all their drivers will be out on their asses. The companies will save so much money on wages, fuel, insurance, etc. that switching to robots will be the only way to stay competitive.

      Add in the old people who can't pass the driver's medical and you're looking at a switchover measured in months for a big chunk of the population.

      --
      No sig today...
    3. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by cranky_chemist · · Score: 1

      No, the main obstacle to self-driving cars is the law. And it's a critical issue.

      Who, exactly, is at fault when a self-driving car causes an accident? The owner? The passenger? The car maker? The software programmer? No state currently has laws in place that address this issue.

      And make no mistake, there WILL be accidents caused by software bugs/hardware failures.

    4. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "cultural" obstacle has nothing to do with whether the technology can be trusted. That's a matter of physics, and Murphy's law.

      Motor vehicles are subjected to by far the most abuse and neglect of any common consumer technology, as any mechanic can tell you. The most grandiose tech falls prey to simple wear and tear in idiosyncratic and unbelievable ways.

      I'm thinking of a '04 Malibu that, after numerous attempts, finally burned itself up using a rather optimistically designed steering column wiring harness using a bizarre slip-ring arrangement to connect with the ignition switch, signal switches, and so forth. . Dealer No-Service Department did 1 wall job on it and wouldn't touch it after. Their tow driver said we should have just let it burn, which it finally did anyway. Yeah, like you're gonna let something like that drive itself, with you in it.

       

    5. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by lgw · · Score: 1

      That's assuming no catastrophic failures in that time period. All it will take is a couple major accidents caused by bad GPS/LIDAR/What-have-you, and back on the shelf it goes.

      I disagree. The mood about this seems to be "as long as they're in fewer accidents than human drivers".

      Nobody could prove that it was any sort of actual malfunction, yet Toyota sales still suffered from all the bad PR.

      The same thing happened to Audi before them. It's starting to get through to people that those are fake (and the few isolated real examples haven't hurt sales much). Car companies already deal with dangerous problems that affect an entire model year today via recalls, usually with little fanfare. Most people with newer cars don't even realize how many firmware updates their dealer has done when their car was in for routine service (it usually just shows on the bill as "Recall #123456, no charge").

      My issue? The potential for intentional tampering by clandestine agents - why bother arguing with dissidents, when you can literally arrange for their vehicle to have an "unfortunate accident?

      Are you one of these guys who think everything can get a fresh patent if you append "... on a computer"? Who thinks everything needs a new law about doing the same old crime "on a computer"? No? Then why would you think that there's anything new or interesting about causing an accident for someone "on a computer"? It's not like it's hard to sabotage someone's car in a likely-fatal way today, or (if you're the government) just shoot them dead in the street and leave some evidence of a mugging behind.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    6. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by Belial6 · · Score: 2

      I want a self-driving motorhome. I telecommute, and it would be awesome to be able to travel around the country working from the back of an RV while the RV automatically takes me to cool places around the country. I have done some road trips with my wife and kid like this, but she would be much happier and willing to do it more if she wasn't the one that had to do all of the driving.

    7. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by timeOday · · Score: 1
      It's not that much of a hurdle. The transition will be very gradual, and it will be years and years before/if the driver is not required to maintain vigilance, and be held accountable.

      Anyways the question is essentially no different than saying 'cars will never go over 15 mph because they could kill somebody if something happens like a wheel falls off, and who will take the blame? The manufacturer? The garage who last serviced it? The driver?'

    8. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plus, every state has negligence rules in place for every situation. Saying there is no law on point for the issue of this accident is like saying there is no law on point for when my neighbor is accidentally shot by my ray gun or clocked by his wife with a hover board. You just take the general rules and apply them to specific situations; only when that gives "incorrect" results is a more specific law passed. Just look at the history behind the vaccine courts.

    9. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by lgw · · Score: 1

      You're dead wrong. There'll be mass adoption as soon as people figure out you get to watch TV or go on Facebook while you're on your way to work,

      Pretty sure that's common already, without self-driving cars. The safety appeal will be there though.

      Any company that has to pay drivers (taxis, buses, trucks, airport shuttles...) will also be straining at the leash waiting for this to happen. As soon as it's approved, all their drivers will be out on their asses. The companies will save so much money on wages, fuel, insurance, etc. that switching to robots will be the only way to stay competitive.

      That's far in the future. I expect that "self-driving" cars will legally need a human driver ready to take over for at least 20 years. And you won't see any legal tolerance for impaired people in the drivers seat for at least that long. (And if MADD gets their way, you'll still be busted for DWI forever - but then, they'd like to bust you for DWI when drinking in your own living room.)

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    10. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by Duhavid · · Score: 1

      "all their drivers will be out on their asses"

      Quite. What will they do for income then? Is that good?

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
    11. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      What's the point of having a self driving car if I have to pay attention? Sorry, but i'm not paying for my car to drive itself unless I can sit in the back seat and play gameboy while the car drives me to my destination. Without that, it's just an added cost with no benefit. Also, how much will people really be paying attention, ready to take over, if the car actually is driving itself. If you haven't had to take control in the last 10,000 km, are you really going to be paying close attention when something goes wrong? What about after 50,000 km? Or 100,000 km? People will become so complacent if these self driving vehicles actually do their job, that the small percentage of the time the person is supposed to take over, they won't even remember how to operate thing thing in the first place.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    12. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by Stan92057 · · Score: 1

      You forget another. Lawsuits. A couple of accidents and the car maker the programmers will get sued into oblivion making it far to expensive for the insurance to drive the cars if the cars would be continued to be made. I can see the lawyers salivation already.

      --
      Jack of all trades,master of none
    13. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by valnar · · Score: 0

      People are so easy to give up their freedoms and control. Now they welcome it.

      No thanks.

    14. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by lgw · · Score: 1

      My current Nissan is somewhat self driving, or perhaps I should say it has extensive driving aids. It can manage itself in some conditions, sometimes better than I can (because its attention never wavers). It's not perfect, it's not even close, and yet it's still very useful because it enhances the safety of my driving quite a bit.

      For example, it can't do much when there aren't any visible lane indications. I know this, so I start paying full attention when that seems likely to be a problem. It sometimes gets confused by speed bumps painted a certain way. I know this, so I make sure it can't use the brakes when those are likely. There are many cases like this, but in normal freeway driving under normal conditions, it does great at keeping a good following distance while staying under the speed I set, and I need only pay enough attention to keep the car in the lane (and it will try to do that too, but it can only steer with the brakes so it's not really there yet - the audible alarm if you wander out of your lane is more valuable to a distracted driver).

      "Self-driving" is a continuum, from cruise control to perfect driving in all conditions. Technology will move us slowly along that continuum over time, and I'll likely find it useful wherever it ends up (though I guess there may be an "uncanny valley" where it's just good enough to trick you into paying less attention than it should).

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    15. Re: The main obstacle isn't technological by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Yes. It frees up more people from doing mindless drudge work. Our civilisation is a story of freeing people from doing mindless labor so that they can do interesting things.

    16. Re: The main obstacle isn't technological by Duhavid · · Score: 1

      That is great if it works. I worry that these interesting things they will be doing will not be something they get paid for.
      Also, with these people out of their usual work, they will be going after jobs they otherwise wouldn't, increasing downward pressure on wages, and increasing welfare expenditures ( hopefully just in the short term, but... )

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
    17. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >No state currently has laws in place that address this issue.

      Nevada does. Many state legislatures are at least looking into it.

    18. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Quite. What will they do for income then? Is that good?

      Why don't we go back to making everything by hand and working the fields with shovels...?

      --
      No sig today...
    19. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      In other areas there is a push for greater automation, e.g. trains and aircraft. In both those examples the auto-pilot systems have failed and killed people, as well as a myriad of other mechanical and software problems leading to deaths. Cars themselves have had fatal design flaws before. People know cars have somehow got into a state where they can't be turned off or stopped and the accelerator is jammed on full, but continue to buy them.

      It really does seem very unlikely that self-driving cars will be treated any differently.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    20. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      Who, exactly, is at fault when a self-driving car causes an accident? The owner? The passenger? The car maker? The software programmer? No state currently has laws in place that address this issue.

      As a simple example, in Germany you pay car insurance for a car. The insurance will pay third parties for any damages caused by that car unless caused intentionally. And it will cover any legitimate driver. So if it is legal for the car to drive itself, it would be covered by insurance.

    21. Re: The main obstacle isn't technological by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      You are repeating a ludditical refrain that is millennia old. It doesn't work that way.

      Look around you. The majority of people in a modern country don't do essential jobs. Their jobs are purely about making other people's lives easier. The financial industry, retail, restaurants... the service industry is by far the largest sector of a modern economy, and also usually the most lucrative. Yet these jobs are purely the result of people NOT having to do drudge work growing food, mining, making tools, etc.

    22. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by WhatHump · · Score: 1

      People ride in taxis and buses and they're not behind the wheel. A lot of people will be comfortable after the second or third trip. The big shift will be with insurance companies. Once a lot of the risk of collisions and, to some degree liability, has been removed, will insurance premiums go down? This is a huge source of revenue for them.

      --
      "Could be worse...could be raining." Igor
    23. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by Duhavid · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure why sparing a moment to think about consequences is a bad thing.

      There is a human cost ( probably not born by you ) to this change. What are those people going to do?
      That is not to say we should not do this, but we should be aware of what is going on. It wont be unalloyed Pollyanna.

      We already have pretty high unemployment, and taxi and truck drivers, by and large, are not the pinnacle of "retrain for tech jobs" sorts.

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
    24. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      That's assuming no catastrophic failures in that time period. All it will take is a couple major accidents caused by bad GPS/LIDAR/What-have-you, and back on the shelf it goes.

      I disagree. The mood about this seems to be "as long as they're in fewer accidents than human drivers".

      The mood in the pro-automated-car echo chamber, sure. Out on the streets here in "flyover country," you'd hear a much different sentiment - a lot of folks around here are distrustful of large, uncontrollable entities such as multinational corporations and the federal government. Rightfully so, if you ask me.

      Nobody could prove that it was any sort of actual malfunction, yet Toyota sales still suffered from all the bad PR.

      The same thing happened to Audi before them. It's starting to get through to people that those are fake (and the few isolated real examples haven't hurt sales much). Car companies already deal with dangerous problems that affect an entire model year today via recalls, usually with little fanfare. Most people with newer cars don't even realize how many firmware updates their dealer has done when their car was in for routine service (it usually just shows on the bill as "Recall #123456, no charge").

      Ever wonder how they determine whether or not to do a recall? The decision has nothing to do with safety - these companies (and their lawyers) determine which is cheaper: Fixing the problem on millions of cars, or paying out settlements for the handful of people who get killed because they didn't fix the issue. If it turns out to be cheaper just to let their customers die, so be it.

      I think the 'feel-good-firmware-updates' you speak of (which I have never had done to any of my vehicles - as a trained mechanic, I pay close attention to everything a shop does to my ride, up-to-and-including researching any claimed recall or TSB work) are less about fixing a real electro-mechanical problem, and more about a type of security theater; the type designed to create an illusion of caring, and thus, develop unwarranted customer loyalty.

      On the other hand, I've never actually heard of or seen such an update occur, so I have to wonder if you're referring to an actual occurance, or just speculating.

      My issue? The potential for intentional tampering by clandestine agents - why bother arguing with dissidents, when you can literally arrange for their vehicle to have an "unfortunate accident?

      Are you one of these guys who think everything can get a fresh patent if you append "... on a computer"? Who thinks everything needs a new law about doing the same old crime "on a computer"? No? Then why would you think that there's anything new or interesting about causing an accident for someone "on a computer"? It's not like it's hard to sabotage someone's car in a likely-fatal way today, or (if you're the government) just shoot them dead in the street and leave some evidence of a mugging behind.

      Not hard to sabotage? My ass - good luck getting access to the vehicle while it's parked in my garage, or at my work parking lot covered in security cameras. That's the problem - right now, sabotage requires physical access to the vehicle. With an automated car, an attacker could potentially sit in the apartment complex across from your workplace/home, remotely hack into your vehicle, and do his mischief, all without ever needing to physically touch the car.

      Or, even better - government TLAs have back-door access built in, so they don't even have to bother hacking your stuff. Say the wrong thing to/about the wrong person, and you become the next Micheal Hastings. Waaay cheaper method of disposing of dissidents than having to pay salaries to saboteurs, and a lot harder to trace.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    25. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by lgw · · Score: 1

      Ever wonder how they determine whether or not to do a recall? The decision has nothing to do with safety - these companies (and their lawyers) determine which is cheaper: Fixing the problem on millions of cars, or paying out settlements for the handful of people who get killed because they didn't fix the issue. If it turns out to be cheaper just to let their customers die, so be it.

      Have you watched Fight Club again recently? Not really that good. Most companies care about their reputation as well as, you know, not just killing people.

      On the other hand, I've never actually heard of or seen such an update occur, so I have to wonder if you're referring to an actual occurance, or just speculating.

      How computerized is your car? I'm guessing from your attitude that your car starts with a key, not a button, and doesn't have a lot of software assistance. If you're not an early adopter of car technologies, I wouldn't expect much to bugfix in the firmware. Mine has quite a few complex firmware systems that are somewhat new to Nissan, and it does get patched from time to time (and yet I didn't get the mature 4-wheel steering technology, for fear of hardware maintenance issues, perhaps I'm not entirely rational about this).

      Not hard to sabotage? My ass - good luck getting access to the vehicle while it's parked in my garage, or at my work parking lot covered in security cameras. That's the problem - right now, sabotage requires physical access to the vehicle. With an automated car, an attacker could potentially sit in the apartment complex across from your workplace/home, remotely hack into your vehicle, and do his mischief, all without ever needing to physically touch the car.

      Oooh, a scary scary hacker! Is he also a terrorist pedophile drug dealer? We were talking about the government, and the government doesn't have much practical difficulty in attaching GPS units to peoples cars (cars in people's driveway were an easy target until a recent court ruling). They certainly wouldn't be bothered by security cameras owned by a company. Your only defense is electing a government that doesn't do that sort of thing. Yeah, I don't find that all that comforting these days either.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    26. Re: The main obstacle isn't technological by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are not really thinking this through, though. Agreed, it hasn't worked that way, yet. But we haven't had the level of automation we've got now. What happens when everything can be done by robot?. What are you going to do for food? The farming is all done by robots. Who owns those robots? Why would he give you any food? You've got nothing to offer that robots can't already do. Sure, you can be a waiter for that robot owner. He likes humans to bring his food to him, instead of robots. He probably likes humans giving him blow jobs too. Maybe you can have that job. Post-scarcity is a pipe dream, for those who do not understand human nature.

    27. Re: The main obstacle isn't technological by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      Our civilisation is a story of freeing people from doing mindless labor so that they can do interesting things.

      Like stand in an unemployment line? Or cook meth?

    28. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Ever wonder how they determine whether or not to do a recall? The decision has nothing to do with safety - these companies (and their lawyers) determine which is cheaper: Fixing the problem on millions of cars, or paying out settlements for the handful of people who get killed because they didn't fix the issue. If it turns out to be cheaper just to let their customers die, so be it.

      Have you watched Fight Club again recently? Not really that good. Most companies care about their reputation as well as, you know, not just killing people.

      Fight Club (incidentally, written by my dad's former roommate) has nothing to do with anything - and where do you get your information? I worked in the automotive field for several years, which is where I learned how recall decisions are made. Reputation is one thing, but when 'protecting your reputation' is projected to cost more than not doing so, the corporation will always take the side of 'less money lost.' Always. For example, people have been petitioning GM for 20 years to get a recall on the seats in 1978-1988 Chevy trucks - the lack of a headrest increases the likelyhood that a passenger's head will slam into the back window exponentially. Not only has GM refused to so much as consider the recall, those truck sold like hotcakes regardless (I've owned 3 myself), even with the potentially deadly consequences being fairly well known.

      That said, I presume you're once again speculating based on your own biases, and thus probably shouldn't be taken too seriously in this regard.

      On the other hand, I've never actually heard of or seen such an update occur, so I have to wonder if you're referring to an actual occurance, or just speculating.

      How computerized is your car? I'm guessing from your attitude that your car starts with a key, not a button, and doesn't have a lot of software assistance. If you're not an early adopter of car technologies, I wouldn't expect much to bugfix in the firmware. Mine has quite a few complex firmware systems that are somewhat new to Nissan, and it does get patched from time to time (and yet I didn't get the mature 4-wheel steering technology, for fear of hardware maintenance issues, perhaps I'm not entirely rational about this).

      Ah, I see, so your current vehicle had to be brought in for "bug fixes," so you extrapolate that to mean all vehicles have the same problems. However, that is patently not the case.

      Kinda funny how you mention keys, as if keyed vehicles are all built on 20 year old technology. Fact is, they aren't - modern keys often contain coded transponders, which activate in the cylinder and handshake with the on-board computer, authenticating the key so that it will actually start the vehicle. To me, that assumption only furthers my contention that you don't really know very much about either modern nor antiquated automotive systems, and thus your assertions are likely dubious. Don't feel bad - not being a trained physicist, I have the same problem when trying to bullshit my way through conversations with actual physicists.

      Not hard to sabotage? My ass - good luck getting access to the vehicle while it's parked in my garage, or at my work parking lot covered in security cameras. That's the problem - right now, sabotage requires physical access to the vehicle. With an automated car, an attacker could potentially sit in the apartment complex across from your workplace/home, remotely hack into your vehicle, and do his mischief, all without ever needing to physically touch the car.

      Oooh, a scary scary hacker! Is he also a terrorist pedophile drug dealer? We were talking about the government, and the government doesn't have much practical difficulty in attaching GPS units to peoples cars (cars in people's driveway were an easy target until a recent court ruling). They certainly wouldn't be bothered by security cameras own

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    29. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by lgw · · Score: 1

      You sound just like one of those "computer experts" who tries to fix his computer himself, then has to call tech support when it catches fire, except with cars. Try not to live in fear of that government agent trying to kill you from afar - after all, you can always retreat to the safety of your locked garage.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    30. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      We have high unemployment because the government has become an overwhelming drain on the economy.

    31. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by Duhavid · · Score: 1

      How is this? Taxes are at an all time low. Or can you show me how they are not?

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
    32. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I have to maintain vigilance and i have the same legal responsability as in a dumb vehicle, then I will never buy a self-driving car. The appeal of such is to be able to do something else than drive, same as for chauffeurs for those who can afford them. This is interresting, especially long commute drive or night drives to holidays places....
      If you can not do anything else but be an watchfull backup to the robot driver (like current commercial plane pilots, who have to watch and be ready to replace autopilots in case of problem), then the driving experience is much worse that current dumb cars.... Driving may not be enjoyble for some people, but it is certainly more enjoyable than doing nothing while being watchful and concentrated - something than nobody can really do, even if paid to do so.
      And here, far from being (well) paid like the aforementioned plane pilots, you would have to pay more (this automatic driving system will not be free) for a car that will make driving experience a dull nightmare - or accept the legal equivalent of russian roulette when you inevitably stop watching the road and the autodriver? no way, ever....

    33. Re:The main obstacle isn't technological by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      Come back when you get over the idea that taxes are the only option for government to drain the economy.

  10. Fool me once... by Dialecticus · · Score: 1

    ...shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

  11. Initial Launch Market by Guppy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I would recommend autonomous car makers stay out of the litigious US market initially, and focus their initial launch on some place like Singapore.

    It has:
    1) No Snow, which is still causes difficult problem for autonomous vehicles.
    2) Highly structured environment. It is a nation that essentially consists of a single, highly-organized city.
    3) That single city has a government that operates as a sovereign entity, and can adapt its legal framework to accommodate the cars.
    4) That sovereign entity has demonstrated itself to be business friendly (sometimes at the expense of the individual).
    5) Has car owners who are accustomed to accepting extensive government regulation and oversight.

    Much as I would love the idea of having a self-driving car myself, I can't see how such a thing is compatible with American Society.

    1. Re:Initial Launch Market by grumpyman · · Score: 2

      Hey how about piloting it in India. If it works there, it'll surely work in all other jurisdictions!

  12. What about obstacles? by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

    What if there's a squirrel, a cat, a dog or a frickin' deer on the road?

    1. Re:What about obstacles? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      It will stop. .. unless it's a Canyonaroe.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG5FKsH3-F4

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:What about obstacles? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      A well-functioning autonomous vehicle would recognize that there was an obstacle in such a case and would immediately slow down to avoid a collision.

      Although I doubt it would recognize things as small as squirrels or other tiny animals. Something the size of a deer, however, it should immediately stop for.

    3. Re:What about obstacles? by mjr167 · · Score: 1

      Simple. If the animal is small enough to cause no damage on impact, hit it and keep going. If it is big enough to damage the vehicle, don't hit it.

      If it can read road signs, it can see a deer.

    4. Re:What about obstacles? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If hitting it causes less damage than swerving to avoid it would, then go ahead and hit it. Though if it's a child who has wandered into the middle of a busy highway you should swerve to hit its parents.

    5. Re:What about obstacles? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2

      Road Kill for dinner.

      The amazing autonomous James Bond "Q" car will catch it, skin it, and roast it over the car engine while you drive.

      When you get home, dinner will be ready to be served.

      Yum, yum.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    6. Re:What about obstacles? by 0123456 · · Score: 2

      Simple. If the animal is small enough to cause no damage on impact, hit it and keep going. If it is big enough to damage the vehicle, don't hit it.

      So when it sees a baby in the road, it will run over them and keep going.

      Sounds good.

    7. Re:What about obstacles? by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      It will do the right thing, which will frequently be to run over that squirrel instead of slamming on the breaks causing humans to be the ones that get injured or killed.

    8. Re:What about obstacles? by slack_justyb · · Score: 1

      Well at least Tennessee's messed up laws have that part covered.

    9. Re:What about obstacles? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is at worst a "last mile" problem. The computer handles all the highway and downtown driving (where babies in the road are extremely rare) and humans handle the last bit through the residential neighborhood (where babies in the road are extremely rare).

      I've never even heard a news story about a baby in the road.

    10. Re:What about obstacles? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What if there's a squirrel, a cat, a dog or a frickin' deer on the road?

      Wow! You are so ..... smart! I am sure all those brilliant engineers at places like Nissan and Google, working years and years on making autonomous cars, have NEVER EVER thought of there might be, gasp, OBSTACLES in the way that their cars need to avoid.

      I guess, so far, they must have spent all their time just figuring out how to make their autonomous car accelerate, so Nissan's plan must be to start selling these cars when their engineers manage to get the cars to stop autonomously.

      Right. /sarcasm

    11. Re:What about obstacles? by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Road Kill for dinner.

      The amazing autonomous James Bond "Q" car will catch it, skin it, and roast it over the car engine while you drive.

      When you get home, dinner will be ready to be served.

      Yum, yum.

      Ahh, you must be thinking of the new Ford F160 Roaster utility.

      The Aston Martin DB12 will not only hit a deer, it will butcher it, sautee it and serve venison with lightly buttered garden vegetables and a nice Chianti.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    12. Re: What about obstacles? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Most drivers would run over a baby small enough not to do any damage probably without ever noticing it until the bump. Your objection is silly.

    13. Re:What about obstacles? by Jumunquo · · Score: 1

      Yes, you buy that. I will be in the 3D-printed car that launches the deer over to your car for a 50% cut of the meal.

    14. Re:What about obstacles? by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      What if there's a squirrel, a cat, a dog or a frickin' deer on the road?

      Yeah! Because human drivers always react perfectly in those situations, right?

      At least a robot will have a procedure in place for the unexpected, rather than panicking and violently yanking a random control.

      --
      No sig today...
  13. who goes to prison when the car kills someone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    because it will happen

  14. We already have self-driving planes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Granted they require two people with six figure salaries sitting next to the system driving the plane. Despite this they still crash over a dozen times a year. I'm sure making the transition to an Altima that can whiz down the road while you jack off and drink a Starbucks is trivial.

  15. It's the only way by djupedal · · Score: 1

    Using human pilots we've hit the limit as to how many cars we can pack into a second in one lane at highway speeds. At 70 mph, the most you can do is two cars passing a given point in one second. We've plateaued.

    If we drive slow enough to follow another car at a safe distance, throughput suffers. If we travel higher speeds, we have to reduce the distance between cars and throughput also suffers. You could add more lanes, but the costs would be enormous on average. You could try to force people to drive smaller cars when alone or car-pool by mandate, but good luck w/those.

    Autonomous cars will allow tailgating and higher speeds, with much less risk, raising the effective traffic load to 3 cars per second, which is a 50% increase in throughput, without adding more lanes, going to double-decker limos for everyone, etc.

    1. Re:It's the only way by 0123456 · · Score: 2

      Autonomous cars will allow tailgating and higher speeds, with much less risk, raising the effective traffic load to 3 cars per second, which is a 50% increase in throughput, without adding more lanes, going to double-decker limos for everyone, etc.

      No, they won't, outside of Ideal Driverless Car Utopia.

      What happens when the car at the front slams on its brakes, and your car can't stop as fast because the pads are worn and the owner hasn't bothered to keep up with regular maintenance?

      Oops. You crash. Then many of the cars behind crash too.

    2. Re:It's the only way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Autonomous cars will allow tailgating and higher speeds, with much less risk, raising the effective traffic load to 3 cars per second, which is a 50% increase in throughput, without adding more lanes, going to double-decker limos for everyone, etc.

      Er. Only if *all* cars are autonomous, which given there are still Model Ts on the road won't happen for some time. And even then, what if a car has a sudden blowout or suspension failure? Computer reactions could remove the "reaction time" element of the safe recommended gap but there still has to be enough time for the physics to take effect.

    3. Re:It's the only way by Duhavid · · Score: 1

      The answer is obvious.... Drive faster!

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
    4. Re:It's the only way by lgw · · Score: 1

      Won't be any worse than the same thing happening with human drivers today. But human or computer, if the guy behind you isn't stopping fast enough, and there's still room in front of you, you can brake a bit less, till all the slack is gone. I used to do that quite often when I drove a sports car, to avoid being rear-ended when traffic suddenly stopped, but a computer could get it right every time.

      It's the mix of computer and human drivers that will cause problems, especially when humans start exploiting the habits of autonomous cars to cut them off.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    5. Re:It's the only way by Ambassador+Kosh · · Score: 1

      Why wouldn't the care keep a running calibration of the breaks based on when it has last used them?

      Also why would the car even allow movement if the breaks are in that bad of shape?

      Since these are future cars wouldn't they mostly be hybrid or electric in which case they have regenerative breaking systems that don't use the break pads. You can look at a 10 year old prius and many of them look like the break pads have NEVER been used.

      --
      Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD! :)
    6. Re:It's the only way by rsborg · · Score: 1

      Won't be any worse than the same thing happening with human drivers today. But human or computer, if the guy behind you isn't stopping fast enough, and there's still room in front of you, you can brake a bit less, till all the slack is gone. I used to do that quite often when I drove a sports car, to avoid being rear-ended when traffic suddenly stopped, but a computer could get it right every time.

      So you're thinking the computer can be both (a) incredibly efficient with

      I'll repeat what I comment in this story somewhere else - either this is possible but you have oppressive authoritarian controls over your maintenance and repair schedules -or- accidents keep happening. If the latter, due to lawsuit pressures, companies will be forced to make their cars gimped, overconservative in estimating stopping distance and effectively drive like a granny.

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    7. Re:It's the only way by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      If we drive slow enough to follow another car at a safe distance, throughput suffers. If we travel higher speeds, we have to reduce the distance between cars and throughput also suffers.

      No, we don't necessarily have to reduce speed to increase following distance, the two are not mutually exclusive. If everyone obeyed the 2-second rule (or even better, 3 seconds), there would be enough space that we would have to use our brakes less, thus causing fewer traffic waves and jams, reducing congestion.

      The real problem is impatience. Impatient drivers tailgate, accelerate hard, brake hard, swerve from lane to lane and are generally a great disturbance to the flow of traffic. If everyone would just calm down and drive rationally, traffic would be greatly reduced, without reducing speed (much) and without reducing the total number of cars.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    8. Re:It's the only way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, they won't, outside of Ideal Driverless Car Utopia.

      What happens when the car at the front slams on its brakes, and your car can't stop as fast because the pads are worn and the owner hasn't bothered to keep up with regular maintenance?

      Oops. You crash. Then many of the cars behind crash too.

      Driverless cars are better than humans at measuring the breaking capabilities of the vehicle. Human drivers have exactly the problem you describe. If they are driving an unknown car or on an unknown road they will have no clue how well the brakes work and how good friction against the road. The estimated breaking distance will easily be off by more than 100% Even with a known car and a known road they are really bad and tend to estimates that are based on old data.
      A human driver also needs to brake to a full stop to get a good feeling of the brakes and the road. A driverless car gets a good feeling of the grip continuously and will get a good 'feeling' of the state of the brakes even when it doesn't do a full stop.

      Stop brining up examples that current drivers can't handle as an argument against driverless cars.

    9. Re:It's the only way by lgw · · Score: 1

      You accidentally a whole sentence.

      As long as the cars don't depend on each other doing the right thing, then maintenance is no more of a concern than it is today. Computers don't have to be perfect, they merely need to be about as good as a human driver, which really isn't all that high of a bar to clear these days.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  16. 2020? by PRMan · · Score: 1

    Phhh. Didn't Toyota already have a self-driving car?

    --
    Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
  17. My prediction by davebarnes · · Score: 2

    "By 2060 it will be illegal for a human to drive a vehicle in the USA".
    My prediction made in 2012.
    I am a nobody so no one will notice.

    --
    Dave Barnes 9 breweries within walking distance of my house
    1. Re:My prediction by lgw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "By 2060 it will be illegal for a human to drive a vehicle in the USA".
      My prediction made in 2012.
      I am a nobody so no one will notice.

      A similar prediction made a few years earlier:

      "Down in his barn my uncle preserved for me an old machine
        For fifty odd years to keep it as new has been his dearest dream

        I strip away the old debris that hides a shining car
        A brilliant red Barchetta from a better vanished time
        I fire up the willing engine responding with a roar
        Tires spitting gravel I commit my weekly crime"

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    2. Re:My prediction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The righteous rise
      With burning eyes
      Of hatred and ill-will.
      Madmen fed on fear and lies
      To beat and burn and kill.

    3. Re:My prediction by FuzzNugget · · Score: 1

      +5 Rush

    4. Re:My prediction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't see the word "rush" without "Tom Sawyer" instantly popping into my head.

  18. Let's hope... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...it does a better job than the current aiming system on the Micra.

  19. Sex. by khasim · · Score: 4, Funny

    Even if they get a commercially viable product on the road in 2020, it'll be at least a generation of these things being on the roads before people become comfortable enough with the technology to trust their lives to it en mass.

    Once people figure out that you can have sex in the car on the way to work only the lonely will still be driving.

    1. Re:Sex. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Luckily lonely people also have a 'handy' alternative ;)

    2. Re:Sex. by Joey+Vegetables · · Score: 1

      Damn, dude. That sucks. I'll be driving forever! :(

  20. Excellent, one step closer to flying cars by Iberian · · Score: 1

    As we all know from Back to the Future, 2015 is the era of flying cars. However it seems there is an alternate timeline in which people are too much of a risk to guide flying cars with the skill of Doc Brown. So we have to first develop autonomous cars and then transfer over to autonomous flying cars. Which pushes our timeline 2020.

  21. I'm naming mine 'Toonces' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_hwerqogzQ

  22. The Elderly by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

    It seems to me that self-driving cars would be a big deal for elderly people who are don't want to give up driving despite really being incapable of driving safely.

  23. My First Priority by NotSanguine · · Score: 1

    Having grown up in NYC and spent much of my life riding a bicycle on the streets of Manhattan, I came to the conclusion a long time ago that my first priority when riding my bicycle or driving a car is, wait for it, to not die.

    Having lived and driven in many parts of the U.S. I've often been appalled at the cavalier way in which people drive. You're in a 1+ ton box of metal usually traveling at least 100km/h. Lots of ways to die in that scenario.

    Perhaps others might decide that they too do not want to die, but I won't hold my breath. As such, I think autonomous vehicles will be a huge win for everyone except those with a death wish.

    --
    No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
  24. Comercial Use by Catmeat · · Score: 2

    Will autonomous vehicles have to have a driver on board? If not then delivery companies would love the idea of sacking all theirs. The public might not like having to fetch their parcels from a truck pulled up on the street outside their house, rather than have them delivered to the door, but meh.

    Another thought, how long after the technology becomes commonplace before the first non-suicide truck bomb? If I can think it up, then presumably the security apparatus can also, and is right now considering this possibility; it'll be interesting to see what rules and restrictions come into force to try and prevent it.

    1. Re:Comercial Use by Animats · · Score: 1

      Will autonomous vehicles have to have a driver on board? If not then delivery companies would love the idea of sacking all theirs. The public might not like having to fetch their parcels from a truck pulled up on the street outside their house, rather than have them delivered to the door, but meh.

      Just use an autonomous quadrotor for the last hundred feet. You could even deliver to apartments that had a small landing pad outside a window, maybe on a balcony or on top of an air conditioner.

    2. Re:Comercial Use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another thought, how long after the technology becomes commonplace before the first non-suicide truck bomb? If I can think it up, then presumably the security apparatus can also, and is right now considering this possibility; it'll be interesting to see what rules and restrictions come into force to try and prevent it.

      Trucks do park, you know, so you can drive it there, get out and then blow the thing later. Suicide bombs are usually more about strapping stuff to your body. I don't know suicide is usually involved in car and truck bombs.

  25. If i could just retrofit it on by who_stole_my_kidneys · · Score: 1

    a Black 1982 Pontiac Trans Am Ill be good to go.

  26. I'm sure it will all work out fine by ATestR · · Score: 1

    Meanwhile, I'm glad I drive a pickup. My next one, bought in three or four years, will probably last me until I don't need to worry about driving any more.

    --
    âoeAny society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
  27. I refuse to ride in an automunous car by jerryjnormandin · · Score: 1

    I love to drive. I like to push the clutch, get into gear rev the accelerator and let out the clutch. I love to drive. I don't answer my cell when I'm driving, even though my wrangler has u-connect. I rather listen to my rock/blues collection and drive What I like about driving a Wrangler it's one of the only vehicles out that does not feel like you are driving by wire.

  28. Yes, but not really. well.. yeah, what the hell... by abuelos84 · · Score: 1

    The geek/nerd/awe-seeker inside me loves the idea, but I don't know if we are (from a socio-economic pov) ready for mass-scale implementation of this kind of tech. (with this I mean technologies that automate some form of work)
    Don't get me wrong, I really want us to be there, but we aren't.

    Our current socioec. model doesn't cope well with abrupt changes in employment, we live in a survival race, a mostly well-mannered jungle law. There are lots of measures we could take to alleviate this but I don't see our beloved representatives caring much unless shtf, and we already know "s" never really "htf".

    As per usual, science and technology don't give a flying fuck about all this nonsense and changes will come.

    Oh well, you never know.

    --
    -- Counting backwards since 1984!
  29. Osborne Computer / Osborne effect by McGruber · · Score: 1

    Nissan will be ready with revolutionary commercially-viable Autonomous Drive in multiple vehicles by the year 2020

    Why would anyone buy a new Nissan, now that Nissan has told us that if we wait for six years (at the longest!) we could get one with Autonomous Drive?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Effect

    1. Re:Osborne Computer / Osborne effect by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Nissan will be ready with revolutionary commercially-viable Autonomous Drive in multiple vehicles by the year 2020

      Why would anyone buy a new Nissan, now that Nissan has told us that if we wait for six years (at the longest!) we could get one with Autonomous Drive?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Effect

      Precisely because we _dont_ want a self driving car.

      Sales will be unaffected as demand for new cars is fairly inelastic. What will be effected is the share price. This is Nissan saying "we're really advanced, buy NSSNY now".

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  30. Something that bothers me with... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...the assumption that a self-driving car entails sitting in the back sleeping, or otherwise goofing around while the car does all the work. I have a feeling that the driver will be required to be present and alert in the driver's seat as if, well, he were driving, for many, many years after launch. And also: how can self-driving cars be that close when self-driving trains aren't really there, yet?

    1. Re:Something that bothers me with... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Japan already has selfdriving trains, the coorporations running most of the trainnetworks worldwide are just to focussed on the short-term to make the necessary investments to get it deployed eveywhere.

    2. Re:Something that bothers me with... by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      You think the unions would allow it anyway?

  31. great by rossdee · · Score: 1

    But when will I be able to not drive one ?

    I don't drive due to my poor vision.

  32. Think big by Jumunquo · · Score: 2

    If we had truly autonomous cars, we wouldn't need a car per person. One car can take you to your park-and-ride, your wife to work, your son to middle school, and your daughter to elementary school an hour later. Then, it can pick each person up and take them home. And just in case scheduling conflicts, you can team up with your brother and sister to form a 3-car system. Team up with more people, and you can start carpooling and sending the nearest available car to whoever needs it like a taxi service. Get a city involved, and you'll have the more adaptive and cheap bus system in the world, that picks you up on your doorstep and transfers you from car to bus with perfect timing. Routes and transfer points will change dynamically to route traffic most efficiently. Bus-only lanes and traffic light control will ensure calculations are accurate for the majority of the route. Even if you drove like a maniac, you'd have trouble beating an autonomous system that synchs all the traffic lights to its benefit, drove speed limit on the bus-only lane, and does a perfect transfer to car to take you from doorstep to doorstep. Or maybe it wouldn't be that hard because there will be so few cars on the road that owning a car would be like having your own private Jet.

  33. Any *self paying* cars in your future? by Provocateur · · Score: 1

    nt

    --
    WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
  34. Alarming by whodunit · · Score: 1

    It is alarming how eager people are to turn over so much control to computers

  35. No traffic jam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If everybody is driving at speed limit how is it a traffic jam then?

  36. Until they act morally, I won't buy a Nissan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just look at how they treat the rightful owner of www.nissan.com.

    That's how they'll treat you after their self driving car becomes self aware and kills your family.

  37. How alert does the driver have to be? by frenchgates · · Score: 1

    I look forward to an era of actual autonomous vehicles, but I think it may never happen at least on roads as they are now. Won't the driver have to constantly attentive in case he or she has to suddenly take over manual control? If not why not and if so then what's really the point?

    --
    Syntax error: loose != lose, affect != effect, then!=than
    1. Re:How alert does the driver have to be? by KillaBeave · · Score: 2

      That's my issue with the whole thing. What I really want is selective autopilot. I'd love to have the option of putting my car in autopilot on the interstate and just taking a nap or playing with my kids int he back. We do lots of 500 mile 1-way trips back to grandma's house ... it would be great to just fill up the family truckster the night before and head off at midnight, everybody sleeping along the way. It'd kind of be like hibernation during interstellar travel ... except mundane and boring :)

  38. No... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    How about they fix the miserable range the LEaf has first?

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  39. Ambitious by TheSkepticalOptimist · · Score: 1

    Nissan should rather just plan to sell "cars" by 2020 as I haven't seen a Nissan I have ever wanted to buy.

    --
    I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
    1. Re:Ambitious by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      Do you count infiniti?

  40. They'd better apologize to Uzi Nissan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or they'll remain on my list of companies I won't do business with.

    http://www.digest.com/

  41. With these as part of a fleet service by djyrn3715 · · Score: 1

    I wouldn't have to own a car. That would put me on a cloud a little closer to heaven.

  42. Trust my life to a computer? by MobSwatter · · Score: 1

    Is all fun and games until a B.S.O.D. or kernel panic kills 50 people on a freeway. I'll pass.