But if a large organization wanted to sell stock to itself at increasingly higher or lower prices there isn't anything you can do to stop it. It's illegal as hell but hard to prove.
the only thing that makes prices rational is a fluid market. A low volume market produces irrational prices and makes it easy to move prices around inside the limits of rational prices.
Put it this way...
Millions of baby boomers are locked in on a large chunk of their retirement money at 14,000 dow.
As they get older that price they are willing to accept to cash out is degrading (a lot of boomers would cash out immediately if the market got above 13,000 now).
As long as the price doesn't get too high or too low, the boomers are paralyzed and the market is not fluid.
In 2012 to 2016, that price will degrade more. I think we have a decade of overhead pressure from boomers cashing out. At some point, the price won't matter- they'll *have* to cash out to pay bills or go back to work (oh yea, you can't really find work if you are in your 60's these days- I mean 50's.)
20,000 workers affected but only 1,200 losing jobs. So 120,000,000 million.
Still quite a hole.
Hmm how can I save this... okay.. how about htis.
Each dollar goes around in the local economy about 7 times before exiting.* So 120m*7 = 840million loss to the economy.
* problem- it doesn't any more- if you buy anything from walmart or anything made in china, 95% of your dollar leaves the community immediately. Also anything where the money immediately leaves the country for product or services and to a large extent anywhere that it leaves your state and even where it leaves your municipality.
Example, you make $75,000 and another $25,000 is going to SSI, unemployment taxes, medical insurance, etc overhead.
You take your $75k and buy a house with $15,000 of it. The boards and nails are made in a local plant- the labor is local- the money stays in the community.
You buy a car- zoom, $5k a year of your money is leaving the state never to be seen again.
You spend $1k a year on massages- your massage therapist / barber / lawyer/ etc. all pass money around between each other and some of them come into your web design store and pay you for web sites, you spend the money locally again.
You buy a $1500 TV from china and basically all $1500 immediately leaves your economy.
You buy $1200 in locally grown produce- it goes around for a while.
etc.
But basically I blew the 2 billion dollar estimate by misreading TFA.
I was one of the 31 votes which put challenger over the incumbant. It STILL took 5 months for him to admit it and leave office but if it had been 1501 to 1502 instead of 1501 to 1532, he might not have left and they might have had another election. It was for state rep or senator (Vo).
You really think we still have free and fair elections? My god.
In 15 years.. no wait.. probably closer to 18. My vote has mattered...
ONE TIME.
The rest of the time, my district is so gerry mandered that I'm either voting with the 60% majority or the 40% minority. We have low turnout.. I basically am voting for 10 to 20 other people. And my vote STILL doesn't matter.
And on top of that, if your party gets any traction, the media starts running articles and news clips about how goofy your party is. Liberal or conservative- both sides.
Just yesterday a friend who is doing this said since she has no insurance it is $5.50 per pill.
Are you insured? Sounds like a 30 supply of generics ($10 for 90 days btw).
I'm insured- so any covered generic is quite cheap.
However, on my vacation in 2005, I left my pills behind and had to get 5 pills of each kind (15 total). Set me back about $100 bucks. Wasn't covered by insurance since it was too soon since my last refill. Fortunately Walgreens had my prescription via computer. Of course now I'm through a Mail order (required by insurance) so I would just be screwed.
That is "same medicine in MEXICO, $20" (I know because I knew folks that ran down there to get their thyroid medicine until the government started cracking down.
In fact, the guy they are busting in colorado was shipping real drugs.
There are plenty of scam sites, but once you get a site that gives you the real thing, you stayed with it.
Cost?
36 Viagra.. 25mg $360 with a prescription legally... Go to doctor every 3 months.
33 Viagra.. 100mg (so 132 uses when pill-cut to 25mg) $100 - go to doctor once every six months.
Thyroid Medicine? $105 with prescription & insurance $180 with prescription & no insurance $50 online.
Dirty secret? Same medicine legally in Medicine? $20 Same medicine legally in India (by the same damn manufacturer)? $2.00
You can tell pretty quickly if viagra, thyroid medicine, or blood pressure medicine are fake.. you know, in 2 or 3 days your BP shoots back up to 175/100. You can tell pretty quickly if your thyroid medicine is fake, you get really tired and your hair starts falling out. And of course, you can tell within 30 minutes if your viagra/cealis, etc are not real.
--- Now some you can't- cholesterol medicine (Lipitor) for example. Your blood would change in a couple weeks but you'd have to take a test (available for $10 at Walgreens).
Fact is we are GROSSLY overcharged for pills in the U.S. And the government is doin everything it can not to stop bad pills but to stop good pills.
I'm tired of my childhood memory being prostituted and made all P.C.
There is more new entertainment than I can watch in my life time.
I just discovered "Pushing Daisies" an absolutely wonderful gem of a series.
I'm currently in the "watching Inception a half dozen times" phase.
I'm sure lots of folks will go but to me the star wars series is starting to feel decayed.
And Jar Jar was one of two good things about the entire pointless episodes. The other was Palpatine (somehow he acted DESPITE Lucas' direction and gave a wonderful performance). The other good actors were all flattened by lucas. I'll never watch "1" to "3" again in my life.
Most of the crowd around here would would say "I'm getting a new program, word processer, game, software", they didn't say "app" except as "killer app".
I never heard anyone on the amiga, the older apple II's, the ibm pc, AS/400, Vax say they were getting an "app" or "I have a cool new app!"
While "killer App" existed, it was used more by news organizations and visionary groups than by people. As in "What's the next 'Killer App' going to be?"
yes, and drinking radium water and smoking cigarettes were both recommended by doctors at one point.
We know mercury is bad. The article you referenced assumed people recycle the bulbs. Some do- a lot don't. A lot just toss it into the trash. I've had 3 broken at my house in about 10 years - I didn't get out a hazmat team, I just cleaned the floor normally. I probably got some additional mercury exposure but i'm old so that doesn't matter too much.
Apparently part of my information is incorrect- they may be allowed to make more efficient bulbs (the last article I read indicated it didn't matter- the entire technology was just banned which sounded very "P.C.")
You don't address the fact that the light is putrid until the bulbs warm up and the CFL's don't glow at full levels for anything like the rated lifespan. They are apparently chewed up fast in locations where you switch them on and off a lot too.
There's no need for the personal attacks. I would think it's clear that I use a variety of technologies including CFL's...
where it makes SENSE.
CFL's are not "all that".
If you want people to use CFL's recommend brands which actually work.
One of the other people recommended Halogens which were counter intuitive (since they are so hot) and use 25% less energy.
Finally- energy is cheap. $70 to $80 a month all but three months a year. Why should I sit in dismal lighting that depresses me to save $15 bucks a month?
The direction they are going is to ban incandescents and force us to use CFL's everywhere. The goal they should use is a measured efficiency. Then new efficient incandescents would be encouraged.
The ones i have in the bathroom were not cheap. It's not a cost issue, the special incandescents are also expensive and only last 6-8 months. And they were specially made for bathroom light fixtures. I don't recall seeing articles before saying "Oh, don't use CFL's in the bathroom".
If the actual lifespan of the bulbs is less than they say, then the mercury load from the general populace into the land fills is huge. People don't wrap them in plastic either- they don't send them to hazardous waste- they just toss them into the trash where they break and will leach into our water supply. It's not instant death- just another of the 100+ toxins (including jet fuel & plastic & estrogen like pesticides) in our bodies that were not there 50 years ago.
Right now, most of my rooms / fixtures have a mixture of CFL and incandescent. At least one 60 watt bulb for instant light and then CFL's to finish out the room.
I have 2 incandescents and 2 cfl's in the bathroom.
I flick the switch here is the result.
CFL: Up to 60 seconds of absolutely dim, sick light from the CFL's (these are less than 6 months old). You can see the coil inside the dim pastic bubl-- then finally a bit 'bluish' light becomes too bright to look at directly without being dazzled.
INC: Instant "warm" bright light floods the bathroom.
The lights are on in the bathroom less than 7 hours a week. This is a particularly bad place for CFL's. CFL's are okay where turn the light on, can tolerate sucky light for 60 seconds and then it's decent for hours.
But just like "high fructose corn syrup" vs "sugar"-- it's CLOSE but not the SAME. Side by side, I prefer incandescent lighting for night time lighting. It feels better- and even the warm glow CFL's are not the same.
Given the fact that CFL's useful life is 1/5th that of their "rated" life, it seems to me that CFL's are worse for the environment. While they still "light", they light at half intensity after about 8 months. The quality of the light is putrid.
I'm more excited about LED lighting tho it is expensive. It's more suited for "fill" lighting at this time and I use one on my porch-- it draws 2 watts and I leave it on all the time. It's a "60 watt" but it's clear just from looking at it that is really more like a 30 watt incandescent bulb.
This "efficiency" rating seems to expect we'll be happy in a dark room with a spot where we are as opposed to a room bathed with light. Incandescents are partially "innefficient" because they shine light everywhere. They are very well suited for lighting an entire room instantly.
I'm personally buying a few hundred bucks worth of incandescent and putting them in a closet.
What's sad is that the newer incandescents may only use 25% of the energy but the laws are based on the technology- not on the energy consumption and they ignore the mercury poisoning aspects.
Slashdot Mirror
But if a large organization wanted to sell stock to itself at increasingly higher or lower prices there isn't anything you can do to stop it. It's illegal as hell but hard to prove.
the only thing that makes prices rational is a fluid market.
A low volume market produces irrational prices and makes it easy to move prices around inside the limits of rational prices.
Put it this way...
Millions of baby boomers are locked in on a large chunk of their retirement money at 14,000 dow.
As they get older that price they are willing to accept to cash out is degrading (a lot of boomers would cash out immediately if the market got above 13,000 now).
As long as the price doesn't get too high or too low, the boomers are paralyzed and the market is not fluid.
In 2012 to 2016, that price will degrade more. I think we have a decade of overhead pressure from boomers cashing out. At some point, the price won't matter- they'll *have* to cash out to pay bills or go back to work (oh yea, you can't really find work if you are in your 60's these days- I mean 50's.)
One of the thing that was made clear to me over the last few years was that the price of stock is
whatever the last person bid for it.
It isn't based on the book value of the company.
If 99.9999% of the stockholders are not selling or buying- then the .00001% of remaining traders can walk the price wherever they want to walk it.
Oh I can agree with that.. I'm for space travel and I think it's going to get a lot cheaper in 40 years and we could spend it better elsewhere now.
And tax dollars or not- it's going to blow a hole in the local economy. Those were not minimum wage jobs.
Grrrr. I posted to fast.
20,000 workers affected but only 1,200 losing jobs.
So 120,000,000 million.
Still quite a hole.
Hmm how can I save this... okay.. how about htis.
Each dollar goes around in the local economy about 7 times before exiting.*
So 120m*7 = 840million loss to the economy.
* problem- it doesn't any more- if you buy anything from walmart or anything made in china, 95% of your dollar leaves the community immediately. Also anything where the money immediately leaves the country for product or services and to a large extent anywhere that it leaves your state and even where it leaves your municipality.
Example, you make $75,000 and another $25,000 is going to SSI, unemployment taxes, medical insurance, etc overhead.
You take your $75k and buy a house with $15,000 of it. The boards and nails are made in a local plant- the labor is local- the money stays in the community.
You buy a car- zoom, $5k a year of your money is leaving the state never to be seen again.
You spend $1k a year on massages- your massage therapist / barber / lawyer/ etc. all pass money around between each other and some of them come into your web design store and pay you for web sites, you spend the money locally again.
You buy a $1500 TV from china and basically all $1500 immediately leaves your economy.
You buy $1200 in locally grown produce- it goes around for a while.
etc.
But basically I blew the 2 billion dollar estimate by misreading TFA.
That's going to hurt. 2 billion dollars. Perhaps more.
I was one of the 31 votes which put challenger over the incumbant.
It STILL took 5 months for him to admit it and leave office but if it had been 1501 to 1502 instead of 1501 to 1532, he might not have left and they might have had another election. It was for state rep or senator (Vo).
You really think we still have free and fair elections? My god.
So you met my ex wife?
Man.. that was over 20 years ago now.
Real nice fantasy.
In 15 years .. no wait.. probably closer to 18. My vote has mattered...
ONE TIME.
The rest of the time, my district is so gerry mandered that I'm either voting with the 60% majority or the 40% minority. We have low turnout.. I basically am voting for 10 to 20 other people. And my vote STILL doesn't matter.
And on top of that, if your party gets any traction, the media starts running articles and news clips about how goofy your party is. Liberal or conservative- both sides.
I haven't heard of anyone saying folks were dying-- just they were getting sugar pills.
Just yesterday a friend who is doing this said since she has no insurance it is $5.50 per pill.
Are you insured? Sounds like a 30 supply of generics ($10 for 90 days btw).
I'm insured- so any covered generic is quite cheap.
However, on my vacation in 2005, I left my pills behind and had to get 5 pills of each kind (15 total). Set me back about $100 bucks. Wasn't covered by insurance since it was too soon since my last refill. Fortunately Walgreens had my prescription via computer. Of course now I'm through a Mail order (required by insurance) so I would just be screwed.
That is "same medicine in MEXICO, $20" (I know because I knew folks that ran down there to get their thyroid medicine until the government started cracking down.
huh.
in my experience... not so much.
In fact, the guy they are busting in colorado was shipping real drugs.
There are plenty of scam sites, but once you get a site that gives you the real thing, you stayed with it.
Cost?
36 Viagra.. 25mg
$360 with a prescription legally...
Go to doctor every 3 months.
33 Viagra.. 100mg (so 132 uses when pill-cut to 25mg)
$100 - go to doctor once every six months.
Thyroid Medicine?
$105 with prescription & insurance
$180 with prescription & no insurance
$50 online.
Dirty secret?
Same medicine legally in Medicine? $20
Same medicine legally in India (by the same damn manufacturer)? $2.00
You can tell pretty quickly if viagra, thyroid medicine, or blood pressure medicine are fake.. you know, in 2 or 3 days your BP shoots back up to 175/100. You can tell pretty quickly if your thyroid medicine is fake, you get really tired and your hair starts falling out. And of course, you can tell within 30 minutes if your viagra/cealis, etc are not real.
---
Now some you can't- cholesterol medicine (Lipitor) for example. Your blood would change in a couple weeks but you'd have to take a test (available for $10 at Walgreens).
Fact is we are GROSSLY overcharged for pills in the U.S. And the government is doin everything it can not to stop bad pills but to stop good pills.
36 - 24 - 36
Huh.
So everyone on the bus, train, walking, or passenger in a car couldn't text.
Think this idea needs work.
I'm tired of my childhood memory being prostituted and made all P.C.
There is more new entertainment than I can watch in my life time.
I just discovered "Pushing Daisies" an absolutely wonderful gem of a series.
I'm currently in the "watching Inception a half dozen times" phase.
I'm sure lots of folks will go but to me the star wars series is starting to feel decayed.
And Jar Jar was one of two good things about the entire pointless episodes.
The other was Palpatine (somehow he acted DESPITE Lucas' direction and gave a wonderful performance). The other good actors were all flattened by lucas. I'll never watch "1" to "3" again in my life.
I agree "Killer App" existed before.
It wasn't used exactly the same way tho.
Most of the crowd around here would would say "I'm getting a new program, word processer, game, software", they didn't say "app" except as "killer app".
I never heard anyone on the amiga, the older apple II's, the ibm pc, AS/400, Vax say they were getting an "app" or "I have a cool new app!"
While "killer App" existed, it was used more by news organizations and visionary groups than by people. As in "What's the next 'Killer App' going to be?"
Until they decay naturally or burn in the next wildfire.
Were.
They had an article last week that the last U.S. plant was closed (or closing soon).
Oh yea.. and one of the ones in the bathroom has started buzzing... after less than 5 months. these are not cheap cfl's either.
Some others are buzzing too- but it's only an issue in the bathroom where I'm standing 2' from the bulbs. You can't hear it 10' a way.
I'll be glad when LED's take over and we get rid of this intermediate technology.
yes, and drinking radium water and smoking cigarettes were both recommended by doctors at one point.
We know mercury is bad. The article you referenced assumed people recycle the bulbs. Some do- a lot don't. A lot just toss it into the trash. I've had 3 broken at my house in about 10 years - I didn't get out a hazmat team, I just cleaned the floor normally. I probably got some additional mercury exposure but i'm old so that doesn't matter too much.
Article on more efficient incandescents...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/06/business/energy-environment/06bulbs.html
Apparently part of my information is incorrect- they may be allowed to make more efficient bulbs (the last article I read indicated it didn't matter- the entire technology was just banned which sounded very "P.C.")
You don't address the fact that the light is putrid until the bulbs warm up and the CFL's don't glow at full levels for anything like the rated lifespan. They are apparently chewed up fast in locations where you switch them on and off a lot too.
There's no need for the personal attacks. I would think it's clear that I use a variety of technologies including CFL's ...
where it makes SENSE.
CFL's are not "all that".
If you want people to use CFL's recommend brands which actually work.
One of the other people recommended Halogens which were counter intuitive (since they are so hot) and use 25% less energy.
Finally- energy is cheap. $70 to $80 a month all but three months a year. Why should I sit in dismal lighting that depresses me to save $15 bucks a month?
The direction they are going is to ban incandescents and force us to use CFL's everywhere. The goal they should use is a measured efficiency. Then new efficient incandescents would be encouraged.
The ones i have in the bathroom were not cheap. It's not a cost issue, the special incandescents are also expensive and only last 6-8 months. And they were specially made for bathroom light fixtures. I don't recall seeing articles before saying "Oh, don't use CFL's in the bathroom".
If the actual lifespan of the bulbs is less than they say, then the mercury load from the general populace into the land fills is huge. People don't wrap them in plastic either- they don't send them to hazardous waste- they just toss them into the trash where they break and will leach into our water supply. It's not instant death- just another of the 100+ toxins (including jet fuel & plastic & estrogen like pesticides) in our bodies that were not there 50 years ago.
Right now, most of my rooms / fixtures have a mixture of CFL and incandescent. At least one 60 watt bulb for instant light and then CFL's to finish out the room.
I have 2 incandescents and 2 cfl's in the bathroom.
I flick the switch here is the result.
CFL: Up to 60 seconds of absolutely dim, sick light from the CFL's (these are less than 6 months old). You can see the coil inside the dim pastic bubl-- then finally a bit 'bluish' light becomes too bright to look at directly without being dazzled.
INC: Instant "warm" bright light floods the bathroom.
The lights are on in the bathroom less than 7 hours a week. This is a particularly bad place for CFL's. CFL's are okay where turn the light on, can tolerate sucky light for 60 seconds and then it's decent for hours.
But just like "high fructose corn syrup" vs "sugar"-- it's CLOSE but not the SAME. Side by side, I prefer incandescent lighting for night time lighting. It feels better- and even the warm glow CFL's are not the same.
Given the fact that CFL's useful life is 1/5th that of their "rated" life, it seems to me that CFL's are worse for the environment. While they still "light", they light at half intensity after about 8 months. The quality of the light is putrid.
I'm more excited about LED lighting tho it is expensive. It's more suited for "fill" lighting at this time and I use one on my porch-- it draws 2 watts and I leave it on all the time. It's a "60 watt" but it's clear just from looking at it that is really more like a 30 watt incandescent bulb.
This "efficiency" rating seems to expect we'll be happy in a dark room with a spot where we are as opposed to a room bathed with light. Incandescents are partially "innefficient" because they shine light everywhere. They are very well suited for lighting an entire room instantly.
I'm personally buying a few hundred bucks worth of incandescent and putting them in a closet.
What's sad is that the newer incandescents may only use 25% of the energy but the laws are based on the technology- not on the energy consumption and they ignore the mercury poisoning aspects.
But the fact that this firms emails might be the first part of showing a pattern of improper behavior by these firms in general.
If you could show that these firms tend to behave recklessly you might be able to have a shorter trial, hit them for damages, etc.
Not sure, but in some countries, breaking the law removes the corporate shield from your assets too so people can go after your personal assets.
While I agree there is no study... there is an app for the iphone that makes very high frequencies to train dogs with.
You can't hear them but you can feel them. It makes your head feel a little weird as well as the base of the neck even tho you can't hear it.
The app is free.