Drunk? Please think before I post? This is a little over the top. The truth of the matter is that my argument was sound. MY DATA was incorrect. Nobody with false data, no matter how correct the logic, arrives at a correct conclusions. Now a sound argument is usually based on clear thinking. Therefore, two things;
I need to doublecheck my data or information better.
You need to relax.
I was wrong, true. Next time just point that out. Otherwise, your reducing a rather intelligent past time to verbal buffonery.
1) If I'm not mistaken, the L1 cache in the PIII is at least 64k (32+32). According to the screenshot (which can easily be faked) it's 16 and 16.
2) The L2 cache of the 733 PIII is 256 kb ONBOARD! Why is this important? Well first of all, there is nothing listed under the L2 setting. Did they have to DISABLE THE L2 CACHE to get it to work? If this is not the case, then why isnt' the L2 amount shown? If it was indeed disabled, then it's extremely doubtful that those benchmarks are reliable.
Performance of todays processors is almost as much dependent on cache performance as archetecture and design. By increasing cache performance and memory throughput through the chip, you are decreasing the amount of time that the processors instruction pipelines are left empty. With no L2 cache, this would prove an incredible crippling of the chips ability to execute instructions.
The only other possibility here is that the L2 is disabled, but the test scores are real. This being based on the idea that perhaps, all of these benchmarks are running within the L1 cache, which if true, would mean that the tests are not indicative or real world performance.
It's one thing to create a human feel based on maniputation of time, attack and release, and real time variance of an instruments environment, however, there is one BIG thing left out of this equation. The direct influence of the player on the instruments sound.
Here is an example. With stringed instruments (guitars included) the number of variables that governing how an instrument sounds is immense. With Guitars, a short list would include string guage, string tension, pick guage, the wood the instrument is made out of, the strength of the player, the size of his or her fingers, the amount of dirt on the strings, the amount of dirt on the fret board, the material or metal that the bridge and nut is made of, if electric, the size, type, and shape of the magnets in the pickups, not to mention the shape of the pickup aperature, and on, and on, and on........ Now that's just guitars.
The attack alone of many types of instruments is something that synths to this day have not yet been able to mimic. This is no small feat either with many instruments. With instruments like Piano, it's a little easier as the actual production of a tone is purely mechanical (as opposed to stringed instruments where there is actual physical contact with the strings). But ultimately, they're not there yet.
The best way to put this is that this software may come close to mimicing the human element of a perfomance, but it has no clue on how to mimic the human/mechanical interaction between a performer and his instrument and it's ultimate affect on the quality of the sound produced.
It's a little hard to believe that people would have so much little knick-knacking and complaining about some of the things that he said. SO WHAT! He's a dude just like me and you with his own set of opinions based on his experience and needs at times in particular. It's my present opiinion that Linux is the bomb, but I still do most of my work (web development) under Win9x. So what. Perhaps, rather than squealing about some of the little things that he had to say, listen in read between the lines. Maybe then, you'll get a picture of what it takes to have the kind of focus that he's capable of. Personally, I don't really like the subject matter of the Id games, but that has no bearing on my view of John Carmack as one of the hardest workers out there. No amount of chortling will change that. Rock hard, ride free! BDKR
Who are these guys? One would think that they are from the Windows camp with statements like these. Was it the suits that said this crap, or the developers?
Oh well, when you get down to it, X stability is a given. To think that it could ever be up for some sort of questioning is unbelievable by itself.
It's a crying shame that AMD is set to make the same mistakes with the K7 (relatively speaking) as they did with the K5 design (the K6 was orignally designed by NexGen). In those days, integer operation was where it was at. So they focused on Integer performance. What happened after that? Quake and the whole 3D accelleration explosion. Processors with strong FPU's performed better. AMD could'nt have seen that one coming.
Now, they seem poised to get themselves in deep crap here in much the same way by focusing on letting everyone know how good of a job they are doing at running Windows and Windows applications. I feel this is a mistake in progress. It Intel is doing what I think, making relationships with various players in the Linux community, or just simply buying them, it would be in AMD's best interest to do a little of the same.
Linux would be a very good move for AMD. The simplest association of their name with an important project or distro would help them immensely.
Big Din K.R. "If you're not on the gas, you're off the gas!"
That's something that I am curious about. Is AMD making any kind of contributions to the Linux community or pumping money into a distrobution? It seems to me that it would be in their best interest.
I'm not clear on how Rambus is supposed to be "the next step in the chip-set food chain".
I really don't believe they have any intention of it being something of worth into the future as much as I see them just trying to fragment the x86 platform further than it allready is.
Actually, I'm right with you at that. It would be a GRAVE mistake for AMD to play the same games that Intel has in the past. We all know the reasoning behind this P3/Xeon split. Besides, it's these kinds of games that probably has Intel in the trouble it's in now with Merced (or whatever it's 64 bit chip is). Perhaps if Intel wasn't so busy about making sure nobody used their poor architecture (GTL+. And I say this in hindsight of course) and focused on developement of CPU's, then Merced would be out now and they would'nt be poised to get their buts kicked by
"I've visited all the URLs that people are saying hang their Netscapes, and it seems to be working just dandy for me. I have Javascript on, Java off."
I suspect that most of the people that are saying this are using Netscape on a Linux platform with Java on. Under those circumstances, it does seem to have a problem with versions 4.5 - 4.6.
For the most part, I think IE is ugly, Netscape seems to have some issues with DHTML standards, and they both offer little or nothing in the way of customization (skins, themes, etc). I still prefer Netscape for reasons relating to the Windows OS, but neither of them are any good as far as I am concerned.
Otherwise, I can't wait to see Neoplanet come to the Linux world using Gecko.
Actually, I thought it had something to do with branch prediction. What you termed as instruction prediction. There normally is a penalty involved with a failed branch, but if this approach can lesson or completely kill the possibility of such, then there would be a resultant performance gain.
I have to agree with you there. I still do my website developement on Win9x and will continue to do so until I find a application that gives me the functionality of Homesite and Dreamweaver. As far as Quest is concerned, maybe they're in bed with AOL instead. How else could they get the permission to do whatever it is they did to Netscape that makes it so that you can log only through one of their copies? That scenario makes more sense to me. It makes me wonder if they aren't doing something wacked like AOL and using a protocol other than TCP/IP. Big Din K.R.
Slashdot Mirror
Why do you think I left?
>>It's no big deal so Don't Panic. OK ripper, I'll try not too. Later on, Big Din K.R.
I need to doublecheck my data or information better.
You need to relax.
I was wrong, true. Next time just point that out. Otherwise, your reducing a rather intelligent past time to verbal buffonery.
Rock hard, ride free
Big Din K.R.
1) If I'm not mistaken, the L1 cache in the PIII is at least 64k (32+32). According to the screenshot (which can easily be faked) it's 16 and 16.
2) The L2 cache of the 733 PIII is 256 kb ONBOARD! Why is this important? Well first of all, there is nothing listed under the L2 setting. Did they have to DISABLE THE L2 CACHE to get it to work? If this is not the case, then why isnt' the L2 amount shown? If it was indeed disabled, then it's extremely doubtful that those benchmarks are reliable.
Performance of todays processors is almost as much dependent on cache performance as archetecture and design. By increasing cache performance and memory throughput through the chip, you are decreasing the amount of time that the processors instruction pipelines are left empty. With no L2 cache, this would prove an incredible crippling of the chips ability to execute instructions.
The only other possibility here is that the L2 is disabled, but the test scores are real. This being based on the idea that perhaps, all of these benchmarks are running within the L1 cache, which if true, would mean that the tests are not indicative or real world performance.
But then again, I could be wrong,
Big Din K.R.
Is that correct? To duplicate that kind of performance on my Linux box, I would have to turn of the L1 and L2 caches. BDKR
It's one thing to create a human feel based on maniputation of time, attack and release, and real time variance of an instruments environment, however, there is one BIG thing left out of this equation. The direct influence of the player on the instruments sound.
Here is an example. With stringed instruments (guitars included) the number of variables that governing how an instrument sounds is immense. With Guitars, a short list would include string guage, string tension, pick guage, the wood the instrument is made out of, the strength of the player, the size of his or her fingers, the amount of dirt on the strings, the amount of dirt on the fret board, the material or metal that the bridge and nut is made of, if electric, the size, type, and shape of the magnets in the pickups, not to mention the shape of the pickup aperature, and on, and on, and on........ Now that's just guitars.
The attack alone of many types of instruments is something that synths to this day have not yet been able to mimic. This is no small feat either with many instruments. With instruments like Piano, it's a little easier as the actual production of a tone is purely mechanical (as opposed to stringed instruments where there is actual physical contact with the strings). But ultimately, they're not there yet.
The best way to put this is that this software may come close to mimicing the human element of a perfomance, but it has no clue on how to mimic the human/mechanical interaction between a performer and his instrument and it's ultimate affect on the quality of the sound produced.
Whatever..
Big Din K.R.
It's a little hard to believe that people would have so much little knick-knacking and complaining about some of the things that he said. SO WHAT! He's a dude just like me and you with his own set of opinions based on his experience and needs at times in particular. It's my present opiinion that Linux is the bomb, but I still do most of my work (web development) under Win9x. So what. Perhaps, rather than squealing about some of the little things that he had to say, listen in read between the lines. Maybe then, you'll get a picture of what it takes to have the kind of focus that he's capable of. Personally, I don't really like the subject matter of the Id games, but that has no bearing on my view of John Carmack as one of the hardest workers out there. No amount of chortling will change that. Rock hard, ride free! BDKR
Cocteau Twins, Joe Satriani, Cibo Mato, and Spearhead. Cocteau Twins the most. Even after all of these years.
Who are these guys? One would think that they are from the Windows camp with statements like these. Was it the suits that said this crap, or the developers?
Oh well, when you get down to it, X stability is a given. To think that it could ever be up for some sort of questioning is unbelievable by itself.
BDKR
By the way, sign the Athlon Motherboard support petition here.
It's a crying shame that AMD is set to make the same mistakes with the K7 (relatively speaking) as they did with the K5 design (the K6 was orignally designed by NexGen). In those days, integer operation was where it was at. So they focused on Integer performance. What happened after that? Quake and the whole 3D accelleration explosion. Processors with strong FPU's performed better. AMD could'nt have seen that one coming.
Now, they seem poised to get themselves in deep crap here in much the same way by focusing on letting everyone know how good of a job they are doing at running Windows and Windows applications. I feel this is a mistake in progress. It Intel is doing what I think, making relationships with various players in the Linux community, or just simply buying them, it would be in AMD's best interest to do a little of the same.
Linux would be a very good move for AMD. The simplest association of their name with an important project or distro would help them immensely.
Big Din K.R.
"If you're not on the gas, you're off the gas!"
I'll bet Tesla could've answered some of these questions 70-80 years ago.
That's something that I am curious about. Is AMD making any kind of contributions to the Linux community or pumping money into a distrobution? It seems to me that it would be in their best interest.
I'm not clear on how Rambus is supposed to be "the next step in the chip-set food chain".
I really don't believe they have any intention of it being something of worth into the future as much as I see them just trying to fragment the x86 platform further than it allready is.
Actually, I'm right with you at that. It would be a GRAVE mistake for AMD to play the same games that Intel has in the past. We all know the reasoning behind this P3/Xeon split. Besides, it's these kinds of games that probably has Intel in the trouble it's in now with Merced (or whatever it's 64 bit chip is). Perhaps if Intel wasn't so busy about making sure nobody used their poor architecture (GTL+. And I say this in hindsight of course) and focused on developement of CPU's, then Merced would be out now and they would'nt be poised to get their buts kicked by
Is there any reason that it's a dead link?
What is WinLinux2000? Sounds like bad mojo.
In regards to this statement;
"I've visited all the URLs that people are saying hang their Netscapes, and it seems to be working just dandy for me. I have Javascript on, Java off."
I suspect that most of the people that are saying this are using Netscape on a Linux platform with Java on. Under those circumstances, it does seem to have a problem with versions 4.5 - 4.6.
For the most part, I think IE is ugly, Netscape seems to have some issues with DHTML standards, and they both offer little or nothing in the way of customization (skins, themes, etc). I still prefer Netscape for reasons relating to the Windows OS, but neither of them are any good as far as I am concerned.
Otherwise, I can't wait to see Neoplanet come to the Linux world using Gecko.
BDKR
Actually, I thought it had something to do with branch prediction. What you termed as instruction prediction. There normally is a penalty involved with a failed branch, but if this approach can lesson or completely kill the possibility of such, then there would be a resultant performance gain.
Rock hard, ride free
Yeah, I think you did pick up a bad one.
I have to agree with you there. I still do my website developement on Win9x and will continue to do so until I find a application that gives me the functionality of Homesite and Dreamweaver. As far as Quest is concerned, maybe they're in bed with AOL instead. How else could they get the permission to do whatever it is they did to Netscape that makes it so that you can log only through one of their copies? That scenario makes more sense to me. It makes me wonder if they aren't doing something wacked like AOL and using a protocol other than TCP/IP. Big Din K.R.