The GP is posting because trolls like yourself are saying it isn't done. Seems a fairly direct cause and effect to me.
Trolls? The issue is not whether it is or isn't done. It's about the right tool for the job. There are a lot of people who can do amazing things with MS Paint, but that doesn't mean that people should replace Photoshop with it.
Show that to a Photoshop user and tell them to use Paint instead and watch yourself get laughed out the room. Just because you can do something with something doesn't mean you should.
The fact that you have to tell us this story is very telling and shows that it's not a natural thing to do. Do you ever see people tell a tale about how they used their laptop to type a document?
You're missing the point. This fee is not assessed for contractors working for Microsoft on Microsoft projects but who are working on the contractors premises. If Microsoft were to remove this fee, it won't be fair to contractors who have people working in their own offices.
What "truth about that evil empire" is getting modded down?
If you think Microsoft is astroturfing this site with its dying readership(thanks to chasing away rational people and posting bullshit stories), you're delusional.
Whatever happened to the folks who claimed in +5 insightful posts that Linux has better security because of the superior Unix architecture? And that Windows malware, spyware, viruses and etc. were because of the crappy Windows code and not just because of popularity?
As Macs grow more popular, so does the malware targeting it. And Android has a huge malware problem. Perhaps those posts were wrong?
Submarine patent are like submarines. Hiding under the water waiting for the enemy to become entrenched and complacent and then spring to the surface and attack when it is least expected.
If Nokia were to do that, they would wait a couple of years till VP8/WebM gets on hundreds of millions of devices and then start filing patent cases. In this case, they're declaring the standard allegedly infringes their patents and provided a list of patents. As usual, Groklaw exaggerates things to mislead folks and to rake up mud like OMG SUBMARINE PATENTS when it is clearly not the case.
Why should Nokia, whose mobile business was undercut by Google using its search monopoly profits to dump a free mobile OS onto the market, give away their hard earned patents for free to Google so that they can reduce their costs on Youtube? Google can easily pay them some of the $50B cash hoard they have for them to go away. It'd be a disservice to Nokia's shareholders if Nokia didn't try to extract some money for their IP from Google.
It won't work in the long term either. Microsoft has no strategic partners, only strategic victims.
Except for Dell, Lenovo, Acer, Samsung, HP who made and continue to make tens of billions by being Microsoft's partners. Stop this revisionist simplistic nonsense, please.
Microsoft has already hinted they'll abandon Windows phone next year.
This bullshit is why I hate Slashdot and posters like SymbolSet who make up lies and FUD and then you have others regurgitating this nonsense for years like dumb sheep., like Microsoft abandoning.NET.
Stage magic, or clever marketing, that's the kind of magic they've used. Magic which uses smoke and mirrors to obfuscate the real underlying situation.
Like I've said already, many of those WP7 developers did have to modify their code. Microsoft created all kinds of incentives for it. And the ones who didn't bother just suffered a new influx of negative reviews from users with WP8 phones and therefore less visibility in the app store.
Reference for the " many of those WP7 developers did have to modify their code" line? The final WP8 SDK wasn't even published when WP8, yet the WP8 store had 100K+ apps.
And I did have to quote it for you, you're the one who linked to it originally, claiming that it somehow supported *your* point when it very clearly doubted that your point was even possible at all.
I linked to that article because it detailed the process of how Microsoft automatically recompiled WP7 apps to WP8. If my point wasn't possible, how come there were 100K apps at launch automatically without even the final SDK coming out?
And I'm the one who pointed out to you that all the 5 articles you linked to were from before the WP8 launch (including the article quoted above), thereby nullifying them as evidence for your point, and now you're the one who has the gall to point out the same thing to me? Even quoting the dates and highlighting the "before" in bold as if you were the one suddenly trying to educating me on the matter when I didn't even make half the claim you made? Seriously?!
The point is that you have completely failed to provide any references after the migration showing that there were anything more than a handful of problems. If there a lot of problems, the media would've gone nuts in the WP8 review about how WP7 apps didn't run on WP8.
That all the articles doubting the migration were before it happened is telling. Of course the media is silent when there are no issues. There is nothing to write about! A few apps did have issues, but it's definitely not many as you say.
Please explain from where 120K apps appeared for WP8 on Oct 29th 2013 without the WP8 SDK being released if there so many "breaking changes" preventing them from running?
So the onus is on you to show that there were lots of problems with the migration, and you failed to come up with even one reference.
My original point was that Microsoft claimed it was going to be so much better than Android for developers because it was going to handle fragmentation the right way (not like Google).
When did they do that?
On almost day 1, it turns around, and actually does it much-much worse than Google, thereby burning most of its early adopter developers. "do you really think the 100,000 app compiler trick is going to work?"
So from where did the 100K+ apps appear in the WP8 marketplace at launch? Magic? The developers did not have to lift a finger to do that. The article you're quoting is from before the WP8 launch casting doubts on the process i.e from June 2012. WP8 came out in October.
Just to be clear, I said that WP7 [apps] won't run [unmodified] on WP8. Yes, that's correct. I still stand by the original gist of that claim.
That's misleading at best and outright false at worst. Microsoft has complied 100,000+ WP7 apps in the cloud so that they work for WP8. So from the perspective of a WP7 dev, the apps run unmodified from their end and they don't have to put any effort towards modifying their app. They DO NOT have to worry about the 35+ "breaking changes" that you quote.
Again, how different is a WP7 dev's situation with WP8 coming with the Android dev's situation with a new version coming?
OK, to be fair, that's more than they offered after the launch of Windows Phone 7..true.. but given the successive "non-upgrade paths" (Windows Mobile 6.5 / Windows Phone 7) haunting releases, I think it's fair to be skeptical of any promises./quote>
Did they make any promises about wp7 phones being upgradeable to wp8? Link? Or are you full of hot air.
oh like 7.5 was? also no guarantee of firmware releases for _your_ phone.
maybe you should have linked to microsoft.com.
Did Microsoft promise that 7.5 phones would be upgradeable to 8 like they're doing for wp8 to wp9? Link?
Firmware releases are handled by OEMs, not by Microsoft. Microsoft only supplies the OS. It's like asking Linus to replace the broken sound card in your Dell PC.
"If you want updates, buy Nexus." Is there a problem with that rule of thumb, other than that U.S. prepaid carriers tend not to carry Nexus phones?
I love how quickly your narrative changed from
"Google have been pretty good at providing continuous updates for earlier versions of Androids. In fact they will provide updates as long as the phone is good. Their business model covers this. Apple and Microsoft's business model does not."
to
"If you want updates, buy Nexus"
What percentage of Android phones that are being sold are Nexuses? 0.2% ?
They changed the kernel in WP7 from WinCE to the WinNT kernel(the same lineage as in Windows 7/8) in WP8, which is a pretty big changes and left the old OEM hardware drivers of WP7 incompatible with WP8. Since the next WP version will be using the same kernel, it's not hard to imagine WP9 working on WP8 devices.
Slashdot Mirror
It's approaching a million sales after being on sale only in a few countries, that isn't so bad.
>
The GP is posting because trolls like yourself are saying it isn't done. Seems a fairly direct cause and effect to me.
Trolls? The issue is not whether it is or isn't done. It's about the right tool for the job. There are a lot of people who can do amazing things with MS Paint, but that doesn't mean that people should replace Photoshop with it.
http://mytechquest.com/windows/amazing-ms-paint-pictures/
Show that to a Photoshop user and tell them to use Paint instead and watch yourself get laughed out the room. Just because you can do something with something doesn't mean you should.
The fact that you have to tell us this story is very telling and shows that it's not a natural thing to do.
Do you ever see people tell a tale about how they used their laptop to type a document?
Another typical short sighted anti-MS karmawhoring Slashdot post while whoring Google Docs which Google controls and can take away at moment's notice.
http://ehsanakhgari.org/blog/2012-04-13/how-i-lost-access-my-google-account-today
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4013799
Meanwhile, in the real world, Office is making record revenues.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/20/technology/microsoft_earnings/index.htm
Under the standard cell service contract, they continue charging the higher monthly rate even after the contract expires.
On TMobile, once your device is paid off, the monthly fee is reduced by the amount you were paying for the phone.
You're missing the point. This fee is not assessed for contractors working for Microsoft on Microsoft projects but who are working on the contractors premises. If Microsoft were to remove this fee, it won't be fair to contractors who have people working in their own offices.
Examples?
What "truth about that evil empire" is getting modded down?
If you think Microsoft is astroturfing this site with its dying readership(thanks to chasing away rational people and posting bullshit stories), you're delusional.
The only thing unusual here is that /. thought this was story-worthy
Unusual? Slashdot will post any garbage if it's anti-Microsoft.
http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/16/2259257
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2009/02/oh-the-humanity-windows-7s-draconian-drm/
http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/13/03/17/1914209/microsoft-to-abandon-windows-phone
No wonder the site is basically dying leaving only zealots as people with half a clue leave the site.
Windows has a bigger install base than Android, and PCs are far more lucrative target than a weak phone with a weak data connection.
Android malware is also almost exclusively socially engineered, rather than exploiting OS flaws. The same can't be said for Windows.
What OS flaws? Reference? The vast majority of Windows malware is through downloads, like fake codecs.
Whatever happened to the folks who claimed in +5 insightful posts that Linux has better security because of the superior Unix architecture? And that Windows malware, spyware, viruses and etc. were because of the crappy Windows code and not just because of popularity?
As Macs grow more popular, so does the malware targeting it. And Android has a huge malware problem. Perhaps those posts were wrong?
Submarine patent are like submarines. Hiding under the water waiting for the enemy to become entrenched and complacent and then spring to the surface and attack when it is least expected.
If Nokia were to do that, they would wait a couple of years till VP8/WebM gets on hundreds of millions of devices and then start filing patent cases. In this case, they're declaring the standard allegedly infringes their patents and provided a list of patents. As usual, Groklaw exaggerates things to mislead folks and to rake up mud like OMG SUBMARINE PATENTS when it is clearly not the case.
Why should Nokia, whose mobile business was undercut by Google using its search monopoly profits to dump a free mobile OS onto the market, give away their hard earned patents for free to Google so that they can reduce their costs on Youtube? Google can easily pay them some of the $50B cash hoard they have for them to go away. It'd be a disservice to Nokia's shareholders if Nokia didn't try to extract some money for their IP from Google.
As for the Mass Migration to Linux, that happened with Android, which is set to become the most installed OS this year.
That means it must be time to remove the anti-trust restrictions on Microsoft and Windows, right?
It won't work in the long term either. Microsoft has no strategic partners, only strategic victims.
Except for Dell, Lenovo, Acer, Samsung, HP who made and continue to make tens of billions by being Microsoft's partners. Stop this revisionist simplistic nonsense, please.
Microsoft has already hinted they'll abandon Windows phone next year.
This bullshit is why I hate Slashdot and posters like SymbolSet who make up lies and FUD and then you have others regurgitating this nonsense for years like dumb sheep., like Microsoft abandoning .NET.
Yuck. Kinda makes you wonder how many other companies MS will puppet in the same way before they go under.
Before they go under? What? Looks like Slashdot has it's own version of reality.
Magic? I don't believe in real magic.
Stage magic, or clever marketing, that's the kind of magic they've used. Magic which uses smoke and mirrors to obfuscate the real underlying situation.
Like I've said already, many of those WP7 developers did have to modify their code. Microsoft created all kinds of incentives for it. And the ones who didn't bother just suffered a new influx of negative reviews from users with WP8 phones and therefore less visibility in the app store.
Reference for the " many of those WP7 developers did have to modify their code" line? The final WP8 SDK wasn't even published when WP8, yet the WP8 store had 100K+ apps.
And I did have to quote it for you, you're the one who linked to it originally, claiming that it somehow supported *your* point when it very clearly doubted that your point was even possible at all.
I linked to that article because it detailed the process of how Microsoft automatically recompiled WP7 apps to WP8.
If my point wasn't possible, how come there were 100K apps at launch automatically without even the final SDK coming out?
And I'm the one who pointed out to you that all the 5 articles you linked to were from before the WP8 launch (including the article quoted above), thereby nullifying them as evidence for your point, and now you're the one who has the gall to point out the same thing to me? Even quoting the dates and highlighting the "before" in bold as if you were the one suddenly trying to educating me on the matter when I didn't even make half the claim you made? Seriously?!
The point is that you have completely failed to provide any references after the migration showing that there were anything more than a handful of problems. If there a lot of problems, the media would've gone nuts in the WP8 review about how WP7 apps didn't run on WP8.
That all the articles doubting the migration were before it happened is telling. Of course the media is silent when there are no issues. There is nothing to write about! A few apps did have issues, but it's definitely not many as you say.
http://www.techspot.com/news/50645-microsoft-unveils-wp8-windows-store-reaches-120000-apps.html
Without even the final WP8 SDK for developers to make any changes. http://www.extremetech.com/computing/137621-two-weeks-away-still-no-sdk-windows-phone-8-teeters-on-the-edge-of-failure
Please explain from where 120K apps appeared for WP8 on Oct 29th 2013 without the WP8 SDK being released if there so many "breaking changes" preventing them from running?
So the onus is on you to show that there were lots of problems with the migration, and you failed to come up with even one reference.
My original point was that Microsoft claimed it was going to be so much better than Android for developers because it was going to handle fragmentation the right way (not like Google).
When did they do that?
On almost day 1, it turns around, and actually does it much-much worse than Google, thereby burning most of its early adopter developers.
"do you really think the 100,000 app compiler trick is going to work?"
So from where did the 100K+ apps appear in the WP8 marketplace at launch? Magic? The developers did not have to lift a finger to do that. The article you're quoting is from before the WP8 launch casting doubts on the process i.e from June 2012. WP8 came out in October.
Just to be clear, I said that WP7 [apps] won't run [unmodified] on WP8. Yes, that's correct. I still stand by the original gist of that claim.
That's misleading at best and outright false at worst. Microsoft has complied 100,000+ WP7 apps in the cloud so that they work for WP8. So from the perspective of a WP7 dev, the apps run unmodified from their end and they don't have to put any effort towards modifying their app. They DO NOT have to worry about the 35+ "breaking changes" that you quote.
Again, how different is a WP7 dev's situation with WP8 coming with the Android dev's situation with a new version coming?
http://blogs.windows.com/windows_phone/b/wpdev/archive/2012/04/05/windows-8-and-the-windows-phone-sdk-pt-2.aspx
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/windows-phone-8-whats-microsofts-developer-story/12353
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsofts-windows-phone-8-finally-gets-a-real-windows-core/12975
http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-details-its-strategy-for-compiling-windows-phone-apps-in-the-cloud-7000007185/
http://www.i-programmer.info/professional-programmer/i-programmer/4402-the-astonishing-tale-of-wp8-compiling-100000-apps.html
Here are some of the ones that got killed by Google.
http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/map_of_the_week/2013/03/google_reader_joins_graveyard_of_dead_google_products.html
OK, to be fair, that's more than they offered after the launch of Windows Phone 7..true.. but given the successive "non-upgrade paths" (Windows Mobile 6.5 / Windows Phone 7) haunting releases, I think it's fair to be skeptical of any promises. /quote>
Did they make any promises about wp7 phones being upgradeable to wp8? Link? Or are you full of hot air.
oh like 7.5 was? also no guarantee of firmware releases for _your_ phone.
maybe you should have linked to microsoft.com.
Did Microsoft promise that 7.5 phones would be upgradeable to 8 like they're doing for wp8 to wp9? Link?
Firmware releases are handled by OEMs, not by Microsoft. Microsoft only supplies the OS. It's like asking Linus to replace the broken sound card in your Dell PC.
That's like complaining that Android ICS won't run apps written for Android Jelly Bean.
For example see the "breaking changes" http://developer.android.com/about/versions/android-4.2.html#Behaviors
Your earlier assertion was that WP7 won't run on WP8, not that WP8 apps won't run on WP7.
"If you want updates, buy Nexus." Is there a problem with that rule of thumb, other than that U.S. prepaid carriers tend not to carry Nexus phones?
I love how quickly your narrative changed from
"Google have been pretty good at providing continuous updates for earlier versions of Androids. In fact they will provide updates as long as the phone is good. Their business model covers this. Apple and Microsoft's business model does not."
to
"If you want updates, buy Nexus"
What percentage of Android phones that are being sold are Nexuses? 0.2% ?
They changed the kernel in WP7 from WinCE to the WinNT kernel(the same lineage as in Windows 7/8) in WP8, which is a pretty big changes and left the old OEM hardware drivers of WP7 incompatible with WP8. Since the next WP version will be using the same kernel, it's not hard to imagine WP9 working on WP8 devices.