Bill Gates: iPad Users Are Frustrated They Can't Type Or Create Documents

An anonymous reader writes "While Apple views the tablet and PC markets as two separate entities, Microsoft takes the opposing view. During a CNBC interview this morning, Gates continued to toe the party line insofar as he praised the benefits of Microsoft's tablets and Windows 8 while explaining that iPad users are frustrated because they have trouble typing and creating documents. 'With Windows 8, Microsoft is trying to gain share in what has been dominated by the iPad-type device. But a lot of those users are frustrated, they can't type, they can't create documents. They don't have Office there. So we're providing them something with the benefits they've seen that have made that a big category, but without giving up what they expect in a PC.'"

Comments

Yeah

[Anonymous Coward]

You didn't have Office in Windows 7, or anything.

Re:Yeah

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Nobody wants a PC in the office. Users are frustrated that the punch cards and terminals that they depend on for data processing are just not available for the PC.

Re:Yeah

[LordLimecat]

Are you seriously implying that touchscreen is the new, better method of input?

What exactly do you do on a computer? Im gonna guess its not

• Writing proposals
• Writing code
• Doing financial work
• Doing systems administration

Or anything, really, that involves rapidly moving data from your brain onto a computer. Or does the new Lightning connector have that capability built into it?

Re:Yeah

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Different
Use
Case

Re:Yeah

[PCM2]

One thing I've noticed since switching to a Windows tablet is how lousy the onscreen keyboard is. On most platforms, touchscreen keyboards try to incorporate things like predictive text, auto-capitalization, etc to help you type, because they realize that a touchscreen with no tactile feedback is a less-than-idea way to type. The Windows onscreen keyboards have none of that. What's more, they seem wildly inaccurate ... the visual feedback seems to be telling me that I'm hitting the right keys, but when I look up at what I entered, half of the letters are keys right next to the ones I thought I was hitting (and although I can touch type on a physical keyboard, I do have to look at the keys on a tablet).

What exactly do you do on a computer? Im gonna guess its not

Writing proposals
Writing code
Doing financial work
Doing systems administration

Screw all of that. Before you can do any of that, you have to enter your password to login to the system first. Try that when you have a strong password and you can't be totally sure what keys you're pressing.

Re:Yeah

[socceroos]

Yeah, I agree. Jeremiah is being annoying. Almost as annoying as that APK guy. Now he is annoying.

Re:Yeah

[kelemvor4]

Are you seriously implying that touchscreen is the new, better method of input?

What exactly do you do on a computer? Im gonna guess its not

• Writing proposals
• Writing code
• Doing financial work
• Doing systems administration

Or anything, really, that involves rapidly moving data from your brain onto a computer. Or does the new Lightning connector have that capability built into it?

You don't need a keyboard to post cat videos with your iProduct.

Re:Yeah

[fast turtle]

Yep. The new Lightning connector is now able to read your puny mind. Of course, it also has the tendency to reprogam that puny little mind to always buy iCrapple products. "We are Apple. Resistance is Futile! You will eat the rainbow!"

Re:Yeah

[TrollstonButterbeans]

The tablet market's strength is low maintanence. No need for anti-virus. The updates are infrequent. Plug it in and it works.

Most of the tablet seems to be to entertain children between the ages of 7-14, when I go to any restaurant a fair number of kids are playing games on a tablet, while very few adults are using a tablet.

Re: Yeah

[mark_wilkins]

That's because adults realize it's rude to play with their tablets at the dinner table.

Re: Yeah

[TrollstonButterbeans]

More likely: The understated victim of the tablet market is Nintendo DS and Sony PSP. I don't even see them these days ....

Re:Yeah

[dimeglio]

You can always dictate. Newer devices are pretty good at understanding what you're saying. For the rest, there's always good old full sized computer with a full size screen. In portrait mode of course.

About that Microsoft tablet, they tried to make it (but not entirely) something it can't be. Tim Cook was right when he said it was a compromised and confusing product.

Re:Yeah

[Anonymous Coward]

I just used an ipad for the first time yesterday, and I did notice that while typing a password, that the key you hit shows up on the screen briefly before fading into an asterisk. This is vital, not only to make sure you hit the right (virtual) key, but that it is in the correct (upper/lower) case.

Re:Yeah

[GigaplexNZ]

when I go to any restaurant a fair number of kids are playing games on a tablet, while very few adults are using a tablet

When I go to a restaurant, people tend to be eating. But that's just me.

Re:Yeah

[murdocj]

the use case being "output only"

Re:Yeah

[ozmanjusri]

Or anything, really, that involves rapidly moving data from your brain onto a computer.

Swype on Android is already faster than typing for most people, with 20-40wpm common, and alt least one person getting close to 60wpm. I h ave no doubt that refinement of Swype and similar tools will mean that onscreen writing will soon be faster than traditional keying.

In many business contexts, (site works, parts ordering, inspections, audits etc) it's already a better input method, no matter how fast it is.

Re:Yeah

[lucm]

One thing I've noticed since switching to a Windows tablet is how lousy the onscreen keyboard is. On most platforms, touchscreen keyboards try to incorporate things like predictive text, auto-capitalization, etc to help you type, because they realize that a touchscreen with no tactile feedback is a less-than-idea way to type. The Windows onscreen keyboards have none of that. What's more, they seem wildly inaccurate ... the visual feedback seems to be telling me that I'm hitting the right keys, but when I look up at what I entered, half of the letters are keys right next to the ones I thought I was hitting (and although I can touch type on a physical keyboard, I do have to look at the keys on a tablet).

When you say "Windows tablet" do you mean Surface? Because there are a lot of other products out there that run Windows 8. In any event, predictive text IS available in the vanilla Windows 8, you just have to enable it in the "Ease of access options" app. Here is a video that shows how: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60zFkIOzvTo

Screw all of that. Before you can do any of that, you have to enter your password to login to the system first. Try that when you have a strong password and you can't be totally sure what keys you're pressing.

In Windows 8 there is a small eye icon in password fields when they get the focus, if you click on it you can see the field content in clear text.

Seriously, WIndows 8 has plenty of issues but people who can't STFW for basic tutorial information are just adding noise to the discussion.

Re:Yeah

[mwvdlee]

The use case you described was about data processing.
The use case LordLimecat described was about data processing.
How exactly are they
different
use
case?

Re:Yeah

[Anne Thwacks]

I have noticed that, on many devices, when you enter the Wifi Key, you have the option to view it why the hell can't I have that for passwords? (especially on my Andoid Phone) If I am the only person in the room, it doesnt need to be converted to asterisks. (and if I am tyuping it over a 300 baud acoustic coupler in plaintext, hiding the echo won't help either).

Re:Yeah

[Anne Thwacks]

Newer devices are pretty good at understanding what you're saying.

Only if you have an American accent

Re:Yeah

[gumbi west]

For the Apple products I use I can't remember the last time I had to search the web to figure something out... two instances come to mind: command-tilde was a tip from Woz, and somebody on /. suggested turning on a system option that allows me to navigate GUI menus with the KB. But both of those are years ago. Other than that, I've figured out every gesture, hot key, navigation technique that I use on the OS X and iOS products.

Coming from that world, I don't really think to search the web when I have a problem like this, I just assume that the OS is broken.

Re: Yeah

[Anonymous Coward]

if you need to rtfm or stfm, you hace already failed.

Ask te Linux guys ir you don't believe me

Re:Yeah

[gsslay]

Try that when you have a strong password and you can't be totally sure what keys you're pressing.

QFT.

I have no problems with passwords and encryption keys on a keyboard. But entering them on a touch screen (especially if the input is hidden) is a slow, tedious and error-strewn process.

Re:Yeah

[gtall]

Nice channeling of Douglas Adams.

Re:Yeah

[oh_my_080980980]

LMOL yeah Bill that's why Apple sold all those iPads and your tablets have been remainded.

Re:Yeah

[isorox]

Are you seriously implying that touchscreen is the new, better method of input?

What exactly do you do on a computer? Im gonna guess its not

• Writing proposals
• Writing code
• Doing financial work
• Doing systems administration

Or anything, really, that involves rapidly moving data from your brain onto a computer. Or does the new Lightning connector have that capability built into it?

I write code, and do system administration. Obviously I prefer my trusty thinkpad with linux on it, however when I get a phone call with a problem, I love the fact I can ssh in from my phone and restart apache or similar. I've gone as far as using vim to create perl. Once I even ran a debugger.

Obviously a PC is better than a laptop, a laptop is better than a tablet, and a tablet is better than a phone, however the chance of me having access to those devices is inversely proportional to how comfortable it is to use.

What's better, going home from the pub to log on to a 3-screened workstation with all the input you could possibly want, or quickly fixing a problem while your mate gets the next round in?

Re:Yeah

[bryan1945]

Oh, shush you! If you don't have to search for trivial information on how to use your OS every 30 minutes, you're not using a REAL OS. /sarcasm

Re: Yeah

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows are really great in offices ... especially when they overlook a golf course or something ... :-)

Re:Yeah

[PCM2]

When you say "Windows tablet" do you mean Surface?

No. A Samsung device.

In any event, predictive text IS available in the vanilla Windows 8, you just have to enable it in the "Ease of access options" app

So you're telling me that in order to get a feature that's standard on many platforms, I need to find the control panel that historically has been used to switch on features for the disabled? Why isn't there an option in the keyboard itself, instead of forcing me to go hunting all over creation to find it?

In Windows 8 there is a small eye icon in password fields when they get the focus, if you click on it you can see the field content in clear text.

That's only of minimal help when I'm trying to enter a mix of letters, numbers, and symbol characters and the keyboard is finicky.

Seriously, WIndows 8 has plenty of issues but people who can't STFW for basic tutorial information are just adding noise to the discussion.

And as others have noted, searching the web to find techniques that should be intuitive is not a good solution. I think you're going out of your way to apologize for poor usability design. The tablet experience on Windows 8 is just not particularly great, and it only gets worse when you want to use desktop apps (such as Office, which is what Gates was bragging about).

Re:Yeah

[AlphaWolf_HK]

I think you've just demonstrated that Bill Gates is right on this one.

You see, people want smaller lighter devices that are easier to carry around. This is why for example, the ipad sold well, and then the smaller tablets sold even better. However these smaller devices pose a problem: their form factor mostly delegates them to content consumption, with very limited content creation.

And what is it that engineers do? Solve problems. Does that mean the solution is with Microsoft? Not necessarily. But the next "killer device" could be something that lets you have your cake and eat it too. Remember, apple assumed that nobody would want tablets smaller than 9". Turns out they did. Really, really did. Apple is also assuming that people don't want to be very productive on a tablet. Bill Gates is simply saying that the later assumption is wrong, and if you read most of the comments on slashdot, he's right because that is the number one complaint about these devices.

Likewise, Bill Gates suggests that Microsoft is pushing in that direction. In my opinion, the current Microsoft implementation does nothing to solve this problem. Namely, the surface is neither a laptop nor a tablet. It tries to do both, and doesn't do either particularly well. Unlike a laptop it doesn't work when its on your lap, and unlike a nexus 7 or ipad mini it doesn't fit in your pocket.

Although, GP is only kidding himself if he thinks the demand for MS Office isn't there (as opposed to say libreoffice, which while good, apparently isn't enough for most organizations out there - in the words of those organizations that is.)

Re:Yeah

[lucm]

searching the web to find techniques that should be intuitive is not a good solution. I think you're going out of your way to apologize for poor usability design.

Now proven wrong, you adjust your complaint from "non-existing predictive text" to "non-intuitive default options". Basically you don't have an actual issue, you are simply going out of your way to bash Windows 8. Very brave to do so on Slashdot.

For the sake of discussion: default options in Windows 8 are a mixed blessing. As an example, in previous versions of Windows one could pick the timezone during the setup; now like a lot of options it's set by default (silently), which can be annoying. It looks like Microsoft decided to make the setup a lot more straightforward, and this design decision is also reflected in the very basic and user-friendly "PC Settings" page. It has the same feeling as on other OS where a lot of stuff is hidden under the hood. Computers for dummies.

However there is a minor benefit to that approach: since user settings are stored in the cloud, when an option is changed on one device it is changed on all devices where the user logs on. This is no innovation as this was already available on other devices (like Google Nexus) but it makes the issue of default options a bit less annoying; it can actually be very convenient not to have to answer to the same questions every time a new machine is configured.

The tablet experience on Windows 8 is just not particularly great, and it only gets worse when you want to use desktop apps (such as Office, which is what Gates was bragging about).

Windows 8 has two modes: Metro and Desktop. On a tablet, the Metro (RT) mode offers more or less the same experience as other tablets like the iPad or Nexus (all swipes and gestures), but with less apps in the Store. It's not unpleasant to read news, watch movies or keep an eye on the stock market on Metro apps; it is very smooth, it's visually interesting and the context-aware Charms bar is convenient once you get the hang of it. The biggest issue on Metro is that there is not a lot of high-quality apps in the Store; even those from big names like Amazon are often incomplete and require a visit to the website to do anything serious. But it's getting there, and since it's possible to write a Metro app entirely in HTML5 and Javascript I guess the Store offering will grow over time. I disagree with the way Microsoft is handling the Store (it's very similar to Apple, very restrictive and flaky) but I guess they were afraid of all those VB people taking the Metro wave.

As for the Desktop mode, I agree that it is not well-suited for a tablet (unless is comes with a physical keyboard, but then it's a netbook not a tablet). The keyboard is not the same and won't activate automatically; using the touch interface for right-clicks is awkward and having to mess around with thin scrollbars is unpleasant. In my opinion it's a poor way to slowly migrate people towards Metro.

But the worse of it all is that Office is not available in Metro, only on Desktop. Same goes for all the big Microsoft applications (Visual Studio, etc). It feels like Microsoft is trying to have it both ways with Desktop and Metro but it's not working, it's confusing.

At the end of the day Windows 8 is not a bad OS and does not deserve all the misinformed bashing it gets. It is pretty stable, has a decent firewall and antivirus built-in, has very effective file versioning features and does a good job of storing settings (and files if desired) in the cloud. But the bashing is typical; every single release of Windows has endless floods of people who don't know what they talk about come out and complaint endlessly. These people are like those commies who keep predicting the fall of capitalism or Baghdad Bob claiming victory on tv with american tanks driving by in the background. It's almost cute.

Re: Yeah

[Anonymous Coward]

People are always willing to spend less money. Apple was not ready to sell a cheaper product in the same space as the successful iPad.

Size really has nothing to do with it. Just a side effect of making it cheaper.

Re:Yeah

[Incadenza]

One thing I've noticed since switching to a Windows tablet is how lousy the onscreen keyboard is. [...snip...] The Windows onscreen keyboards have none of that. What's more, they seem wildly inaccurate ... the visual feedback seems to be telling me that I'm hitting the right keys, but when I look up at what I entered, half of the letters are keys right next to the ones I thought I was hitting (and although I can touch type on a physical keyboard, I do have to look at the keys on a tablet).

You may find it comforting that the keyboard on an iPad sucks too. Even with my short stubby fingers I have less problems typing on an iPhone than on an iPad. As soon as typing on the iPad reaches a certain speed, characters get dropped out (characters that, frustratingly, gave visual feedback on on the onscreen keyboard). And I *hate* having to dive 2 keyboards deep to reach the common math symbols.

Re:Yeah

[LordLimecat]

Windows 8 actually has that. Click the eyeball button.

Re:Yeah

[LordLimecat]

Swype on Android is already faster than typing for most people, with 20-40wpm common,

"Most people" who do data processing for a living are going to comfortably sit at 60-90wpm. My right hand doesnt even have good form on a keyboard and i hit 70-80.

Re:Yeah

[PCM2]

As for the Desktop mode, I agree that it is not well-suited for a tablet (unless is comes with a physical keyboard, but then it's a netbook not a tablet). The keyboard is not the same and won't activate automatically; using the touch interface for right-clicks is awkward and having to mess around with thin scrollbars is unpleasant. In my opinion it's a poor way to slowly migrate people towards Metro.

But the worse of it all is that Office is not available in Metro, only on Desktop.

So basically you first call me a coward for stating my opinion on Slashdot (as if stating it somewhere else would make me more "brave") and then you agree with everything I said about the bad keyboard and poor tablet experience when trying to use Office on Windows. Have it your way then, guy.

At the end of the day Windows 8 is not a bad OS and does not deserve all the misinformed bashing it gets. It is pretty stable, has a decent firewall and antivirus built-in, has very effective file versioning features and does a good job of storing settings (and files if desired) in the cloud.

None of which has anything to do with the fact that it offers a pretty lousy experience on a tablet, which was the topic of discussion.

BTW, I use Windows 8 every day on laptops, desktops, and now tablets, so I believe I'm entitled to my opinion on it -- more so than many, in fact. What you call "bashing," I call informed criticism.

Re:Yeah

[lucm]

[yada yada yada]

Well we'll have to postpone this fascinating discussion as it seems Microsoft is planning to revert some of the design decisions in Windows 8, making the thread irrelevant.

Silver lining: If they bring back the Start button but still require Metro apps to be deployed from the Windows Store only we'll know the idiots have won.

Re:Yeah

[PCM2]

Silver lining: If they bring back the Start button but still require Metro apps to be deployed from the Windows Store only we'll know the idiots have won.

Does anybody really care about the Start button? All of my keyboards have a great big Windows key on them, and all of the Windows 8 tablets I've seen have a Windows button at the bottom of the display. What I think people really want is the Start menu -- and I am absolutely not convinced that Microsoft is going to give us that back, button or no button.

Re:Yeah

[RockDoctor]

Users are frustrated that the punch cards and terminals that they depend on for data processing are just not available for the PC.

Are you sure about that? The desire certainly still exists :

news://bit.listserv.ibm-main "This lead to a final design that could be built from materials all ready to hand: some old curtain rails, an old piece of shelving, tracing paper, a desk lamp, some masking tape, and Blu-Tack."
"I had originally thought about making the whole reader from Lego, but then thought why torture myself?" Why indeed? youtube.com The wimps version : 6mm holes and paperclips. OTOH, no cheating by doing image processing. forums.xkcd.com The obligatory XKCD. Sort-of. http://cqhuifan.en.made-in-china.com/product/yqoxrjYDEXkl/China-Punch-Card-Reader-Time-Attendance-Machine-HF-S200-.html THe Chinese are making things that aren't entirely dissimilar, which could be a basis for going upscale, in a self-torturing sort of way.

I hesitate, but the thought is parent to the deed : Rule 34.

Re: Yeah

[AlphaWolf_HK]

I don't feel that way at all. When the nexus 7 came around I already had a 9" tablet, and I didn't like how unwieldy it was for reading on a casual basis. Sure, there were dedicated eBook readers, but it would be kind of lame to carry around both devices. So here comes the nexus 7, about the same size and weight as a paperback novel, and it runs all of my apps. That was a no brainer, even though I had already owned a tablet, so price wasn't the issue.

Re:Yeah

[armanox]

Hey, I need the compose key to properly type my password! (Not really, but I am using a Sun Type 6 at work these days).

And...

[MightyMartian]

And Microsoft keeps demonstrating that they just don't get it, that no one seriously expect a tablet to be a PC, and that no one wants their PC to be a tablet.

Re:And...

[jedidiah]

You're forgetting Apple and their fanboys. They fully expect tablets to displace PCs entirely. It doesn't matter if the task is well suited to the tablet form factor or not.

Now with an HDMI and USB port, there's no good reason one kind of general purpose computer can't act like another. The main limitation is policy and whether or not the guy you buy your device wants to try and lock it down.

Re:And...

[MightyMartian]

Because what I use my PC for and what I use my tablet for are entirely different things, and by trying to merge them into a single experience you produce a laptop I don't want to use and a tablet I don't want to use. And apparently I'm not alone, judging by the incredible failure Microsoft's Surface offerings have been.

Re:And...

[CannonballHead]

that no one seriously expect a tablet to be a PC

No, but the option for more overlap is nice. Especially when it has nothing to do with actual processing power issues, and not even screen size with a tablet, but simply peripheral and OS problems.

If nothing else... PRINTING would be awfully nice from a tablet. Too bad both Android and Apple have clunky hacks (well, I'm not too familiar with the Apple one, but I understand it's not a native print-to-printer thing). It's not like it's a hard problem to solve, it's been solved for years.

Same with typing. ASUS has a good thing, IMO, going with their Transformer tablets (I own one). I think it was smart for Microsoft to do it.

I'm sure it's not for everyone. Not everyone likes smartphones, either (I don't have one) ... some for very similar reasons ("nobody seriously expects a phone to be a computer"). But, hey, some do. And I've heard, actually, some very good things about the Windows tablets. The bad thing, of course, is that they are expensive :)

Re:And...

[MightyMartian]

I can't imagine anybody seriously believes tablets will completely replace PCs. But I think they'll make a helluva dent (if they haven't already).

Re:And...

[gl4ss]

And Microsoft keeps demonstrating that they just don't get it, that no one seriously expect a tablet to be a PC, and that no one wants their PC to be a tablet.

I wouldn't mind if the screen on my laptop was removable, if it worked just like magic. and the usb ports on the base unit kept working when the screen was detached and it was in range. that would be sweet at home.

however the whole windows 8 thing is a masterful diversion from the real thing that MS has riding on it.. I might sound like a broken record here, but the real thing why windows 8 is significant is that they're extending microsoft tax to 3rd party software - and nobody is talking about it. on rt it's _all_ 3rd party sw, if you pay then you pay part of the money to MS, on regular 8 it's just metro stuff currently, however now they can "give in" and give the regular desktop more prominent role again in their plans and have regular desktop apps distributed through their store as well then and people will praise them for being sensible. adobe is trying to fight that with subscription model(3rd party payments?), since in the future they sure as fuck wouldn't want to pay MS 30% of a 2500 dollar sale.

Re:And...

[Nadaka]

I like physical keyboards.
My Samsung galaxy S Relay has one good enough for texting and light email/browsing.
My Asus Transformer Infinity has one good enough for modest writing, it also attaches to a usb mouse.
My desktop has a really nice one with real mechanical keys.

There is literally no reason an Iphone or Ipad couldn't use a bluetooth keyboard or mouse.

Re:And...

[interkin3tic]

I think you are overestimating the intelligence of a very profitable demographic for the tablet market, while Gates may be more right on.

There are people who buy tablets as their PCs and only then realize why keyboards are still a thing. Hell, I've heard of a whole school that decided to get all the teachers computers, then decided to get them ipads. This was not an unpopular idea until shortly after it was actually implemented.

Re:And...

[dingen]

Because they are different things.

Re:And...

[foniksonik]

Get a new printer and you sure can print from an iOS device directly. AirPrint. If you have an older model the manufacturer or a 3rd party probably has an app. Epson does iPrint. Works great. Have an Artisan 800 multifunction with wifi and it works for phone and tablet.

Re:And...

[rudy_wayne]

Perhaps you are the one who doesn't get it. Why should a fully capable PC and a tablet be two different experiences?

Because a fully functional PC is for content creation while a tablet is for content consumption. And many people don't understand the difference.

People who use their PC for nothing but browsing the web, occassionaly sending email and posting to Facebook or Twitter are perfect candidates for a tablet. People who do real work use a "fully functional PC". Last year, the two largest PC companies, HP and Lenovo, sold a combined total of 110 Million PCs. Regardless of how that compares to tablet sales or previous year's PC sales, that's a lot of computers.

While tablets have certainly become popular, due to the fact that there are a lot of content consumers out there. the rumors of the death of the PC are greatly exaggerated.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like a Personal Organizer and a phone are two different things and nobody wants to combine them!

Re:And...

[immaterial]

It is a "native print-to-printer" thing. Tap the share button, choose "Print." The only caveat is the printer must be AirPrint compatible, which most (if not all) consumer printers sold now are. For people with older printers or in corporate environments with larger office printers, there is both free and commercial AirPrint server software that can make any printer available to an iOS device.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

And Microsoft keeps demonstrating that they just don't get it, that no one seriously expect a tablet to be a PC, and that no one wants their PC to be a tablet.

I have all sorts of users that want exactly that. They assume their ipads will do everything their workstations do.

This is not uncommon, thanks to advertising.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

dude, i think you would be the one who "doesn't get it". I just had a manager come in and want me to order an iPad so he could do his work on it... but then he couldn't understand why our software won't work on it and then insisted that Apple would have it fixed soon.

Re:And...

[gstrickler]

There is literally no reason an Iphone or Ipad couldn't use a bluetooth keyboard or mouse.

Well, you're half right. They can use bluetooth keyboards, including the Apple Wireless keyboard and many third party keyboards. Mouse is another matter, the UI is designed for touch, and while a mouse is a pointing device, it's not the same as a touch interface, so there literally is a reason it doesn't support a mouse. It's not that it couldn't support a mouse, but that would require some changes to the UI, and many apps.

Re:And...

[Intrepid imaginaut]

No, people who stand around on a bus for three hours a day, warehouse stock takers, and sales reps are perfect candidates for a tablet. What's the difference between a laptop and a tablet? A frikkin keyboard and mouse! Are you people kidding me?

Re:And...

[Nyder]

And Microsoft keeps demonstrating that they just don't get it, that no one seriously expect a tablet to be a PC, and that no one wants their PC to be a tablet.

Ya, Bill Gates is the last person I'd take advice from when it comes to Apple products.

Re:And...

[UltraZelda64]

Now with an HDMI and USB port, there's no good reason one kind of general purpose computer can't act like another.

Lack of HDMI input on monitor?

Re:And...

[CCarrot]

Perhaps you are the one who doesn't get it. Why should a fully capable PC and a tablet be two different experiences?

Same reason automobile and airplane controls are different. Different use cases, even though they're both 'transportation devices'.

Trying to force desktop or laptop users to dumb down creation tasks to fit the restrictions of a tablet gui is like asking the pilot to fly without aileron controls...technically possible, but hardly comfortable.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

However it occurs to me that the Surface and Windows 8 make an excellent workstation device. I often bring my laptop to meetings at work as does everyone else in the office, but it's clunky and takes up a lot of room. I've often felt my laptop is too much computer for the tasks I run (I work in supply chain, so the worst I tend to run are processor intensive excel models and SAP), but a Surface would be at right about the level needed for a standard office worker's workstation. Maybe not a software engineer or the tech people in a company, but it seems that with more and more network storage in companies, a tablet computer with a solid keyboard would be the ideal tool for most office workers.

Of course i haven't used a Surface yet and am thus speculating, so I'd be happy to be enlightened if I'm wrong.

Re:And...

[thetoadwarrior]

I'm not sure where you're getting that. I don't know anyone that's bought an iPad to be their main system and if they were a true fanboy then surely they would have an iMac and or Macbook.

Re:And...

[LordLimecat]

Because a tablet is freakishly expensive to just be used for things that a laptop already does?

Re:And...

[WaffleMonster]

Perhaps you are the one who doesn't get it. Why should a fully capable PC and a tablet be two different experiences?

Cuz nobody has been able to come up with an interface that does not suck on one or both form factors?

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

My ASUS Transformer using Android supports a mouse. The doc station even has a touch pad built right in. the UI is the same Android for all devices, tablet or phone, no need to change the the UI just to support a mouse. its just a little more awkward using the touch pad with the screen right there so i do end up using a stylus to "mouse" over things.

Re:And...

[dingen]

So... because some things are a good combo, all things are?

Re:And...

[lgw]

I would like to have a single device that is a lightweight tablet with a tablet interface, but when I drop it into a dock with a real keyboard, mouse, and screen, it switches UI modes to the right UI for that. A "single experience" would be a flawed approach IMO.

Even better if it would switch "experience" at need to also be my HTPC and gaming console when I have my TV connected and want to switch over to using a remote, or game controllers. The tablet hardware isn't there yet (for 3D gaming), but I expect it will be within 5 years or so.

There's no technical bar here - it just seems to be a mindset thing. Tablet / PC / console / HTPC - why not have the tablet be the core of all of that, and just switch UI "experience" depending on what input devices and display I'm using at the moment? Let the software developers choose to support whichever of those "experiences" they care about for their products.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not sure where you're getting that. I don't know anyone that's bought an iPad to be their main system and if they were a true fanboy then surely they would have an iMac and or Macbook.

Stop ruining his delusion with 'facts'.

Re:And...

[ceoyoyo]

Tablets have lots of uses in "real work." I use mine to read, annotate and display scientific papers. When I write a paper I use a desktop or notebook, referring to the background research on the tablet. Pilots are apparently finding them very useful for reading manuals.

Any kind of non-trivial "real work" is normally going to involve using information and may or may not involve producing it (pilots don't produce information, they fly planes). Tablets are good at much of that using information side. They're not so good at the producing side, but can be handy that way in a pinch.

Re:And...

[MouseTheLuckyDog]

Yeah but mechanical bluetooth keyboards are hard to find. At lest for now.

Plus I hate to think of dragging my RK-9000 with me to use with my GNote 10.1.

OTOH if I really needed to type a lot it would be worth it, and the Surface Pros don't come with real keyboards either. Just that rubberdome garbage.

Re:And...

[tepples]

there is both free and commercial AirPrint server software that can make any printer available to an iOS device..

I own an OfficeJet 4500, which is not AirPrint compatible. I checked the Wikipedia article you linked for more information about this "AirPrint server software" you mentioned, but the first footnote after "GNU/Linux" resulted in "Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at www.rho.cc". The second link works, but it's very complicated to set up. Furthermore, it mentions that it uses Avahi, and I've found that Avahi doesn't work if a Windows Server is on the same network because Windows Server's use of the .local top-level domain by default conflicts with Zeroconf.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

> expect a tablet to be a PC
My PC is a tablet... 3 years now. 1 device for everything I need. Nuff said

Re:And...

[fahrbot-bot]

I wouldn't mind if the screen on my laptop was removable,

Oh, it's removable. Perhaps not usable afterward, but definitely removable.
Or did you have something else in mind? :-)

Re:And...

[Nadaka]

The only thing that needs to change for an iPad to use a mouse is to render the pointer over the current app. It works perfectly for everything except multi point gestures.

Re:And...

[Capt.DrumkenBum]

Same reason automobile and airplane controls are different. Different use cases, even though they're both 'transportation devices'.

It might also have someting to do with why flying cars have never taken off. (Pun intended.)

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

the real thing why windows 8 is significant is that they're extending microsoft tax to 3rd party software - and nobody is talking about it. on rt it's _all_ 3rd party sw, if you pay then you pay part of the money to MS, on regular 8 it's just metro stuff currently, however now they can "give in" and give the regular desktop more prominent role again in their plans and have regular desktop apps distributed through their store as well then and people will praise them for being sensible.

MS are just adopting the hugely successful model developed by Apple that has been proven to be attractive to users and viable for the vast majority of developers, why would they not do it?

Re:And...

[Proteus]

Where are you getting the idea that Apple... or any of Apple's fans... think that tablets will completely replace PCs? Apple's "post-PC era" commentary has almost entirely been focused on the idea that most people neither need nor want a "Home PC", and that a combination of tablet and phone will suit most people's needs (read: consuming media, writing the occasional letter or email message, etc.) admirably.

Most commentary I've seen points out that a more traditional PC is well-suited to creation-heavy tasks, but that the convenience, relatively low cost, portability, and low learning-curve of touch-based computing will tend to relegate PC's to a niche market -- certain classes of business users and the "high-power" users (developers, scientists, etc.).

FWIW, I think Apple is probably right. And the general idea -- most people need an "appliance", not a PC -- is a pretty good one that brings to life the dream of truly accessible computing. What scares me about it is that the major player in the space (Apple) is choosing to lock the general-purposeness of their devices away; and that others entering the market are following suit to some extent (Android manufacturers ship locked to their own app store in many cases, MS is pushing the App Store model for Metro [I refuse to stop calling it that], etc.).

I think that path will make it a lot harder for the sort of serendipitous discovery of computing, development, and related things to occur. If I'd only had an iPad as a kid, instead of an 8088 with a compiler, I'm not sure I'd be a developer today.

Re:And...

[dickens]

just got an "iHome" BT keyboard for my Nexus 10. Makes chopping through those email replies a lot faster on the road. I was going to get Poetic the keyboard-case thingy but decided I didn't want to carry the keyboard with me everywhere. Also this keyboard is wider than the tablet, so it's better to type on.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

They all look like computers to me.

Re:And...

[gbjbaanb]

the overlap solution is already with us - its called a laptop because no matter how you tart up the idea of a tablet with a keyboard, you end up with something that has a screen and a keyboard and if they're not tied together, you have a tablet.

Printing is easy from a tablet - I do it from my Epson printer... thing is, I have to use the Epson app to do the printing, but I don;t really see what else I should expect, knowing my phone is not a PC like my desktop. Mobiles are relatively new technology and there's going to be areas that do not match what we want - TBH I'm not sure anyone really cares that much about printing from them.

Re:And...

[Zeio]

And Windows 8 is so terrible between the Ribbon and the Windows 8 interface this has happened:

- All the secretaries, etc, need to be retrained. Yes they may be "more productive" after the retrain, but they must be retrained. The Ribbon has been accepted by now, but the new Win8 UI is a horrorshow.

- For the computer mavens, gurus and hobbyists and IT guys - I really think the latest crop of Windows garbage is like another windows ME. Lets ignore it, maybe it will go away. I think Windows 7 GUI + Office 2010 is just about the final version that works. Office 2013 is crap, horrible GUI, horrible look, and Windows 8 is so bad that everyone I know who is using it has at least Start8 installed and paid for. Its laughable.

As for me, I'm tired. Ubuntu, RHEL, CentOS, FreeBSD, Solaris, Windows XP, 7, OS X. Whatever. Its a mess that keeps getting messier and crappier mostly. Boring. People reinventing the wheel, resolving old solved problems, etc. Stupid. The industry is kind of in a bad state. Nobody has the discipline to stop changing stuff and hone in on stability anymore. Rugs have to been ripped out from underneath with ever increasing frequency. Things feel horribly unarchitected.

My current favorite OS is actually android. Take the bazaar and productize it. Not bad. Getting better by the day.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

I use fingerprint with my HP laserprinter which does not have airprint built in.
http://www.collobos.com/airprint
It works perfectly for me. I've printed from an iphone, ipad and mac book pro (the HP printer doesn't have mac drivers) without a hitch.

Re:And...

[Lord Maud'Dib]

To me it's so bleedin' obvious that I will never, ever willingly buy another piece of MS anything. I just picked up a Chromebook Acer C7 partly because my old notebook is just not hacking it like it used to (Win 7 Pro came preinstalled) and I wanted to steer clear of Win 8. Lo and behold, ChromeOS is actually really great, and is improving rapidly. I also have Ubuntu installed on it but haven't felt the need to boot into it. MS can see what's coming.

Re:And...

[SerpentMage]

THANK-YOU...

Steve jobs himself said, "When we were an agrarian nation, all cars were trucks because that's what you needed on the farms." Cars became more popular as cities rose, and things like power steering and automatic transmission became popular.

"PCs are going to be like trucks," Jobs said. "They are still going to be around." However, he said, only "one out of x people will need them.""

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20006526-56.html

Where people said that he thought PC's would die is something I don't get. He NEVER said that!!! The problem is that Bill Gates thinks everybody needs a pickup truck, which is clearly not the case!

Re:And...

[fredprado]

If they intend to create any real content in this time, they are much better served by a laptop PC.

Re:And...

[Barlo_Mung_42]

Overlap is very nice. Day to day I'm on my desktop dev box but I don't do development when I travel. All I need is email / web / light office work. I just spent a week on the road with only my surface. Being able to plug a real mouse into it makes it the lightest traveling laptop I've ever had.

Re:And...

[SerpentMage]

The problem with your approach is that when I have a tablet I want battery life and ease of use. And when I use a PC I want power, and speed! They are orthogonal to each other. As the CAP theorem, says, you can have 2 out of 3, not all three, so choose what you want.

Re:And...

[fredprado]

As the GP said, if the work requires content creation you are better served by a PC, if you just have to annotate or use content (as in checking flight charts, for example), tablets are perfect for the job.

Re:And...

[gstrickler]

No, that's not the only thing that needs to change. As you noted, multi-touch gestures don't work with a standard mouse (could possibly work with Apple's Magix Mouse or Magic Trackpad). You also need to add a mouse pointer so you can see what you're pointing at, scrolling has to be addressed (there are no scroll bars in most apps), and you have to create suitable replacements for touch&hold. And, while the current iOS method of selecting text could be adapted to using a mouse, that would be a clumsy way to use a mouse compared to how we've learned to select text using a mouse for the last 30 years. Certainly, the multi-touch gestures are the biggest obstacle, but there are other obstacles to address. The point is that it's not a trivial issue, it's one that has some real UI and usability questions to address before supporting a mouse.

Re:And...

[Shoten]

Yeah but mechanical bluetooth keyboards are hard to find. At lest for now.

Plus I hate to think of dragging my RK-9000 with me to use with my GNote 10.1.

OTOH if I really needed to type a lot it would be worth it, and the Surface Pros don't come with real keyboards either. Just that rubberdome garbage.

Mechanical Bluetooth keyboards are hard to find for the iPad? Really? Really? Are you sure about that?

Re:And...

[Barlo_Mung_42]

imo having a keyboard on my surface is only part of it. Just as great is the ability to plug in a real mouse like I do with a laptop when I want to go into PC mode.

Re:And...

[AK Marc]

"freakishly expensive"? 7" under $100, and 10" under $200 doesn't seem "freakishly expensive".

Re:And...

[SerpentMage]

Let me count the ways shall I?

1) Speed; desktops can ramp up the CPU without problems. Meaning when I do an email search, or text search I can run full speed. However if I do that then my battery life suffers dramatically

2) Screen size: A desktop has a larger screen than a tablet. An ideal desktop size is about 23", laptop is 14.4", and tablet 8". I do not want an 8" desktop, and 23" tablet.

3) Complexity: A tablet does not need ports. Yes yes many say we do, but I argue we need good synchronization software. With less complexity the device becomes simpler. However with a desktop I want complexity. I want the ports, I want the extensions.

4) I want it cheap. I don't want to pay more than 1200 per device because I worry that i might break it. I like being able to put my tablet into a gumdrop case so that the device can fall without breaking. My notebook is fragile and I have to treat it as such.

I could using manufacturing combine this into one device, but then it becomes to fragile, too unwieldy to use successfully. Bill Gates IMO does not get, but hey he is a PC guy!

Re:And...

[ericloewe]

I have to disagree, I expect my tablet to function as an Ultrabook-style device. And guess what, it does!

Of course, there's a lot to be said about Windows 8 (not much of it pretty), but they have the right idea.

The trick is providing something that is truly useful without cannibalizing Laptop/Desktop sales.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

I would like to have a single device that is a lightweight tablet with a tablet interface, but when I drop it into a dock with a real keyboard, mouse, and screen, it switches UI modes to the right UI for that. A "single experience" would be a flawed approach IMO.

Even better if it would switch "experience" at need to also be my HTPC and gaming console when I have my TV connected and want to switch over to using a remote, or game controllers. The tablet hardware isn't there yet (for 3D gaming), but I expect it will be within 5 years or so.

There's no technical bar here - it just seems to be a mindset thing. Tablet / PC / console / HTPC - why not have the tablet be the core of all of that, and just switch UI "experience" depending on what input devices and display I'm using at the moment? Let the software developers choose to support whichever of those "experiences" they care about for their products.

I want that too, but I'm betting the hurdle is that Apple/Microsoft couldn't sell their internal development teams on designing multiple interfaces to programs and not forcing that creates issues where capability changes substantially depending on the interface you're doing.

It probably can't happen inside a company that has too many established stakeholders opposing changes.

Re:And...

[hawguy]

The problem with your approach is that when I have a tablet I want battery life and ease of use. And when I use a PC I want power, and speed! They are orthogonal to each other. As the CAP theorem, says, you can have 2 out of 3, not all three, so choose what you want.

Battery life and speed needn't be orthogonal to each other - a manufacturer could use something like Samsung's Exynos 5 Octa core CPU - low power (and low-performance) cores for use on battery and high power (and high performance) cores for use when docked. So a tablet could be power efficient (and slower) while on battery, but when plugged into a dock, it can become a more powerful, full-featured desktop.

Though it's probably going to need something more powerful than the Cortex-A15 as the high-power core to give a good desktop experience.

Re:And...

[Shoten]

I would like to have a single device that is a lightweight tablet with a tablet interface, but when I drop it into a dock with a real keyboard, mouse, and screen, it switches UI modes to the right UI for that. A "single experience" would be a flawed approach IMO.

Even better if it would switch "experience" at need to also be my HTPC and gaming console when I have my TV connected and want to switch over to using a remote, or game controllers. The tablet hardware isn't there yet (for 3D gaming), but I expect it will be within 5 years or so.

There's no technical bar here - it just seems to be a mindset thing. Tablet / PC / console / HTPC - why not have the tablet be the core of all of that, and just switch UI "experience" depending on what input devices and display I'm using at the moment? Let the software developers choose to support whichever of those "experiences" they care about for their products.

The reason why you can't do this...at least yet...is that the core processing (CPU and video) functions at work here are fundamentally different in each of the experiences you describe. The same processor that gives you low heat and long battery life in a tablet is woefully underpowered for a gaming console or PC. The same graphics processor in a gaming console would require venting and a fan in a tablet. Other things are more pliable (although I don't know if you could hotplug RAM on the fly, I'm sure that's not quite as impossible to solve in the consumer market, as some servers have this ability) but the processors at those two core functions are all different across these device types, and for good reason.

Re: And...

[Yaztromo]

No, I think what Gates thinks is that everyone needs a tandem tractor-trailer unit. With a massive Windows logo and several giant "Intel Inside" stickers all over it. (Typed on an iPad, FWIW). Yaz.

Re:And...

[ericloewe]

Come on, what monitor these days doesn't have DVI or HDMI (other than Apple's Cinema Displays)?

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah but mechanical bluetooth keyboards are hard to find. At lest for now.

You could probably make one with an arduino and a Bluetooth shield.

Re:And...

[LMariachi]

I’m guessing parent meant mechanical as in clicky mechanical keyswitches, like a Model M. He might be interested in something like this.

Re: And...

[UnknowingFool]

Only if you limit your idea of work that can be done on a tablet as "content" creation with word processors and spreadsheets. Square has allowed many small businesses to process credit card payments without the need of an expensive POS system and a hefty percentage credit card percentage.

Re: And...

[Yaztromo]

What is with the love-in of having a dock? We live in a world of wireless accessories. There is no need for something like a tablet to have a ton of extra electronics to be able to handle a docking station connector and all of the necessary bus interfaces to go through it, when virtually everything you want to attach can be handled through the two major wireless standards already built into the device (Bluetooth and 802.11n or ac). So why have a dock, when you can simply have your tablet pickup the devices on your desk wirelessly? My iPad already picks up my bluetooth keyboard, the network, and external speakers (AirTunes) automatically, and can handle an external display via AirPlay (if I owned an Apple TV, that is). Why bother with a) having yet another accessory to buy and b) the added bulk and cost of the electronics needed to support the dock? Yaz (Typed completely on an iPad, FWIW).

Re:And...

[BasilBrush]

Clearly you've never played with the iOS emulator with a mouse. No, it really doesn't work perfectly. For example, have you ever tried inputting on a screen keyboard by pointing using a mouse.

And some multi-touch gestures are not a optional. Try navigating a map intended for touch when you've only got a mouse. There's a way around it, with a keyboard modifier. But then you haven't got a keyboard, only a mouse. And it feels unnatural, and limits you to only zooming from the center.

Every input type has it's own characteristics, and good UIs are designed to match them. Don't assume something is OK unless you've tried it.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

This isn't true. You can sell the "free" version of your app on the store and have the "pay" version be un-lockable with an in-app purchase. If you use a third-party payment processor (which is actually allowed, unlike with Apple products), you essentially avoid the Microsoft tax.

But the point is moot, the Window RT tablets allow side-loading so it isn't even really an issue. You have full access to the registry and Powershell too, so pretty much any restriction that the OS puts on you to "protect" you from yourself can be overridden quickly and painlessly by anyone who did not need that protection anyway.

Case-in-point: I have Audacity running on my Surface RT.

Re:And...

[Algae_94]

Way to fail. Mechanical != physical

Re:And...

[steelfood]

That would be CmdrTaco.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

mDNS is a peer-to-peer system, so you can't interfere just by running another "server" -- the whole point is there isn't any authoritative host. Any standards-compliant responder will check of the existence of a name on the network before claiming that name for its own use, so namespace conflicts are not trivial to generate. If you want to run two separate mDNS zones in the same network you can, simply by changing the domain used by one of them in the configuration of the mDNS responder. Though that's certainly not necessary just to get Zeroconf working.

Also, there are commercial software packages available that provide AirPrint proxy services:
http://www.collobos.com/index.php
http://www.netputing.com/handyprint/

So yes, it's not built in to everything (printers that require host-based processing are fundamentally incompatible without a proxy) but it's readily available if you want it, doesn't require any technical skill to setup, and doesn't send your data through a third-party on the way to the printer. I don't know what more you can expect, short of the ability to install Windows print drivers directly on the device.

Re:And...

[Kjella]

I can't imagine anybody seriously believes tablets will completely replace PCs. But I think they'll make a helluva dent (if they haven't already).

They recently published some stats here from Norway, access to home PC was up 2% to 95% of the respondents and tablets at 37% (first year recorded). I think most people will end up with both, simple as that. That said, I think it has a huge impact on the sort of PC people want. For consumption, people want performance - they want everything to be snappy and flashy and smooth. For production, a lot of the time the limitation is between the keyboard and the chair, for example now that I'm "producing" this comment I like my keyboard, but the CPU is practically idle. The overlap between input-heavy and performance heavy is rather small, essentially hardcore games. But I think for most people the answer will be that yes, we have a laptop, no it's not very powerful and yes it's collecting dust most of the time but it's useful when we need it.

Re:And...

[MouseTheLuckyDog]

If you search Geekhack I think you can find a mod that will make one.

Re:And...

[socceroos]

Ubuntu 14.04. Can't wait. Hope I'm not too disappointed.

Re:And...

[tepples]

I don't know what more you can expect

What I expected was some sort of freely licensed alternative to FingerPrint, just as MinGW is a freely licensed alternative to Visual C++.

Re:And...

[BasilBrush]

There's always a new processor with more performance and lower power requirements on the horizon. And each one simply soaked up making PCs more powerful or mobile devices smaller with longer battery life. They are not used to make a new combined device that is just as good as yesterdays specialist devices.

Re:And...

[BasilBrush]

Some people imagine they can combine the car experience and the truck experience by getting a trailer for their car. And indeed for some people, who only very occasionally need almost truck like capacity, a trailer pulled behind a car can do the job. But it's a tiny fraction of people. Most people drive cars or trucks.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

If nothing else... PRINTING would be awfully nice from a tablet. Too bad both Android and Apple have clunky hacks (well, I'm not too familiar with the Apple one, but I understand it's not a native print-to-printer thing). It's not like it's a hard problem to solve, it's been solved for years.

Perhaps solved for Windows PC users, but printers do not necessarily work with other operating systems. They might not even work with new Windows systems for a long time, or perhaps never. I don't understand why the printer makers want all their devices to have unique drivers, I'd think it's a burden for the manufacturer, too.

Re:And...

[lgw]

problem with your approach is that when I have a tablet I want battery life and ease of use. And when I use a PC I want power, and speed!

Why is that even a problem? Docking stations would have a power plug, so you can draw all the power you need when docked, and revert to the "slow core" for most tablet use. It's not like inactive cores draw much power.

Re:And...

[taustin]

Why should a fully capable PC and a tablet be two different experiences?

Because after using a touch screen on a desktop all day, my arms will be too tired to beat the designer with a baseball bat like he deserves.

Re: And...

[lgw]

My current laptop docks with a single USB-3 attachment - but for a tablet I'd want a power connector as well. Not everyone is in love with wireless! I have 1 wireless mouse at home, for my HTPC; everything else is wired. A docking station just makes it easy, and is likely cheaper than wireless built into everything.

Re:And...

[crankyspice]

PRINTING would be awfully nice from a tablet. Too bad both Android and Apple have clunky hacks (well, I'm not too familiar with the Apple one, but I understand it's not a native print-to-printer thing).

Modern printers can be printed to directly. For everything else (my trusty Canon multi-function, my 8 year old cheap-when-it-was-new Samsung GDI contraption) that are shared via my Linux fileserver, it was a simple setup for CUPS and now those printers are iOS-accessible, too.

Same with typing.

The iPad has supported Bluetooth keyboards since day 1, and Apple (and countless third parties) have sold such keyboards since day 1 (of the iPad). I use one (a Zagg model with a slot that can be used to conveniently stand the iPad) with an iOS 4.3.3 first-generation iPad, routinely...

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple has decided every few years to create a "new" protocl for printing. Right now it is Air Print, before that it was Bonjour and AppleTalk. EVERYONE ELSE uses TCP/IP, IPP and other standardized protocols that have been around for along time.

Android and IOs should be able to handle CUPS easily. The devices in everyone's pocket are as powerful as a desktop was a few years ago. There is no excuse for it not being native and not being able to handle more than "out propriety BS only". Apple lives in a world where there aren't apple only printers and peripherals, they should get their head out of their ass.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

I am so afraid to say this amongst the people here... but I LOOOOOOVE my Dell XPS 12 running Windows 8. A couple of little weird things, but I've been able to work them well. They did a nice job in terms of form factor. Also, Windows 8 works awesomely. Have you guys even used it? The start screen is just an expanded start menu. I work perfectly fine on my desktop all day. I liked it so much I installed it on my home office and work computers too (which do not have touch) and it works just fine (I did move to SSDs, though).

Re:And...

[kelemvor4]

And Microsoft keeps demonstrating that they just don't get it, that no one seriously expect a tablet to be a PC, and that no one wants their PC to be a tablet.

I do. I wish a tablet could run everything my pc can and could also be used as a portable touch device when I didn't want the 30" monitor, kb and mouse. It would be a dream come true. Processor architecture, along with severe performance limitations inherent to tablet devices are both major roadblocks.

Re:And...

[aristotle-dude]

Come on, what monitor these days doesn't have DVI or HDMI (other than Apple's Cinema Displays)?

Uh, yeah, HDMI and DVI are still quite a bit different. You would need an adapter. Only some monitors offer HDMI ports.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

And if they did they wouldn't want it to be windows and word.

Re:And...

[mcrbids]

With my phone, a Razr Maxx HDD, I find myself commonly doing "real work" on the go, where Swype on the screen just doesn't cut it. I got myself an iGo folding BT keyboard and LOVE IT. Android comes with QuickOffice which does a passable job at MS Office compatibility, and which I've used many times in conjunction with the email and JuiceSSH for remote access to servers.

I wish apps weren't full screen; It's trivial to plug my phone into a nearby TV with HDMI and, with bluetooth keyboard, have an impromptu "PC" with pretty impressive "content creation" capability. Copy/Paste is still weak, but it's improving rapidly.

My phone is more powerful than the majority of computers I've used in my almost-20-year history working in information technology. It's silly to think it's not ever going to be considerable as a PC replacement.

Re:And...

[kqc7011]

And how many Ford F-150's have been sold in the last twenty years?

Re:And...

[Gonoff]

I can't imagine anybody seriously believes tablets will completely replace PCs.

Nor can I, but I do think they can replace most laptops. If you can then stick your tablet into a networked dock with mouse, KB and screen, that might make a dent.

Oddly, I have a trial of a Windows8 tablet that can do just that. This could end up replacing all the iPads that we really need not to have.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

Whatever. Its a mess that keeps getting messier and crappier mostly.

I updated my nVidia linux driver the the *certified* version. All of a sudden, certain hardware acceleration
features are gone - missing symbol.

nvidia_drv_video.so: undefined symbol: TimerSet.

WTF?! It's certified!!! Do they expect me to rebuild everything? Anyway, I agree 10000% with what you're saying
about the lack of stability and it does seem to be everywhere (industry wide).

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

hey is obviously mean't "real work" in the context of digital assets. Reading a manual and taking a few short notes is consuming that content. There is a big difference between adding a few lines of text and needing to deal with bullet points, lots of cut and paste, changing fonts, re-arranging paragraphs, etc. not to mention what I would call "real work" as a programmer or other more complicated content creation beyond a word doc.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm, I think you misunderstood what he meant by a mechianical keyboard. And yes they are better than the rubber dome crap most people call a keyboard these days.

Re:And...

[Gonoff]

I would like to have a single device that is a lightweight tablet with a tablet interface, but when I drop it into a dock with a real keyboard, mouse, and screen, it switches UI modes to the right UI for tha

I a, trialling a Dell Latitude 10 tablet running Windows8 for work. It is very good and, at this point, I would recommend it to you. I still have to see how it takes long term use. The biggest fault is thatI can't get CISCO VPN to work with it but I'm hoping CISCO will get round to releasing a Win8(64) client. The Win7 one does not work. We're looking at an MDM so that may not matter.

Re:And...

[jrumney]

Most distros ship with AirPrint enabled out of the box now. All those web pages describing "very complicated" ways to set up (ie editing two configuration files) are obsolete.

Re:And...

[jrumney]

AirPrint is just Bonjour and IPP. It is less proprietary than its predecessor of Bonjour and AppleTalk.
 

Re:And...

[Gonoff]

I would have said that a laptop is a freakishly expensive thing to be used for things that a tablet does equally well and much cheaper - cheaper as long as you don't get an iPad that is.

Re:And...

[sandytaru]

Actually, I love Office 2013. I was using 2010 at work, and while I was off put by the design choices in 2013 (all caps? seriously?) the thing has worked flawlessly for me in Excel, Word, and Powerpoint.

Re:And...

[UltraZelda64]

Not everyone goes out buying new TVs and computer monitors every year to get the latest DRM-laden technology. I have a VGA-capable CRT monitor from ~2000 and a newer LCD monitor with two separate inputs for DVI and VGA. I see no need to add the additional hassle of carrying around yet another an extraneous adapter... a power cable is already more than I would want to deal with and I even avoid carrying those around whenever possible. I also have a 36" CRT TV from back in the late 90s, no chance of HDMI there; S-Video is the best it can do.

Re: And...

[Anonymous Coward]

If the components necessary to connect a tablet to a dock were that expensive and bulky, the Asus Infinity would be thicker and more expensive than the iPad...but it's not...on either count.

The benefits, on the other hand, include extra ports (USB/SD/charging), greater battery capacity (via secondary battery in the dock) and a decent keyboard that doesn't use as much energy as a bluetooth keyboard.

Why not offer a docking solution for those who want it?

Re:And...

[Richy_T]

Touch & hold becomes click & hold. Other than the multi-touch, things translate directly. All you need is the pointer. Android has been able to do this for as long as I have been using ir and the multi-touch has not been an issue because apps have had to be designed for non-multi-touch sensors in any case. There's not much preventing ipa/od from doing this if there was the will.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you are overestimating the intelligence of a very profitable demographic for the tablet market, while Gates may be more right on. There are people who buy tablets as their PCs and only then realize why keyboards are still a thing. Hell, I've heard of a whole school that decided to get all the teachers computers, then decided to get them ipads. This was not an unpopular idea until shortly after it was actually implemented.

Yes, there's money to be made there, but as your own exmple shows, it's a dead end market.

Re:And...

[fast turtle]

hell with a bluetooth keyboard, I'm quite productive on my Nexus 7. The only problem is, I need a wifi connection to get anything done. Give me Linux on it instead with Libre Office and I'd be as productive on it as I am on my desktop.

Re:And...

[Richy_T]

Physically different, electrically the same. You can buy a $1 adapter from ebay.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

I would rather have a fully functional laptop in a tablet form factor than what passes as a tablet - in other words, I don't want a tablet, I want better portability for my laptop.

Re:And...

[gstrickler]

...and the multi-touch has not been an issue because apps have had to be designed for non-multi-touch sensors in any case.

Exactly the point, the Apps were designed for it from the beginning, because Android supported both from the start. iOS was designed from the start as touch only, so any addition of mouse support either needs OS support for using the mouse to emulate multi-touch gestures, or the apps all have to be updated. It's not a trivial thing either way.

Re:And...

[anagama]

Just about any android tablet can connect to a bluetooth mouse and keyboard. And I'm pretty sure iPads can connect to BT keyboards. I'm not really understanding what all the brouhaha is all about -- if people want to use a keyboard to do real work, it's no prob.

There are some tasks for which a tablet will work in a pinch and is handy, but isn't the sort of thing you'd want to be using all the time, especially for tasks that are remarkably more convenient with dual monitors and multiple desktops. But sometimes you can't tote those along, and then a tablet makes sense.

Tablets are great for consumption users -- about all they need especially if they connect a keyboard for their facebook postings -- and they make a nice backup platform for people who typically need more capabilities but aren't always in a place where that's feasible. But by the time you add in all the extra monitors, keyboards, mice etc. ... it really isn't a tablet anymore.

Re:And...

[jedidiah]

Every year? VGA is about a decade out of date. It's fine as a legacy technology but it's certainly not something to feel limited to.

Besides, it's not terribly portable.

Re:And...

[TrollstonButterbeans]

Bill Gates wanted to displace IBM. Ultimately, he did more than he planned. Windows is the operating system of international business machines and do your word docs/timesheet/proposals, but many consumers are not necessarily looking for doing work at home.

Re: And...

[Anonymous Coward]

Which spontaneously bursts into flames.

Re:And...

[immaterial]

No, it means having to do with physical motion or machinery. In Shoten's defense, "mechanical keyboard" is a complete misnomer in that ANY keyboard in which the keys physically move to actuate a switch is, in a strict technical sense, mechanical. For some reason we've mistakenly taken to calling classic (non-membrane) keyboards "mechanical," but if you're unaware of that redefinition it can be an understandably confusing phrase (particularly now that we live in a world where we interact with truly non-mechanical [ie touchscreen based] keyboards on a regular basis).

Re:And...

[anagama]

I think this falls into a new category of trailer slashdot analogies. I have a car, and I have an awesome Thule trailer, now rebranded: http://www.redtrailers.com/ThuleEasyline.asp?mod=SJTP170

I tool around town in my car getting decent mileage when I don't need to haul anything, and have no problem carry all manner of things -- from trash to the dump or heavy shrimp pots down to my boat -- when I need some extra utility. I totally love the trailer. I wouldn't give a crap if a tree fell on my car, but I'd be totally bummed if my trailer got hurt. It's the best thing I ever purchased, or at least in the top 5.

So maybe it's more like this:

Desktop: truck, always ready to do a big haul but wasting gas when you don't have the need.

Laptop: car and trailer -- reasonably efficient on an all around basis but can do some real work when the need arises.

Tablet: Smart Car-ish -- at the high end of the efficiency range but if you need to take more than a bag of groceries, or more than one passenger, you're SOL. It's really just for personal transportation.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, other than those idiots at Ubuntu.

Re:And...

[anagama]

It would be pretty hillarious to modify a full size Model M to be a bluetooth keyboard for something like a Nexus 7 or iPad mini. Good exercise lugging it around too.

Looks like it's been done: http://hackaday.com/2011/08/09/gods-own-keyboard-now-with-bluetooth/

Re:And...

[stymy]

Which is why many laptops come with 2 graphics cards, a real one and a tiny one for low power consumption. Furthermore, with multi-core CPU's, you can only have 1-2 running at a low speed at the same time when you're just browsing the internet or something.

Re:And...

[brentrad]

All of the issues you've raised about using a mouse on a touch UI have already been answered on Android. I have an Asus Transformer tablet with keyboard dock. It has a built in touchpad, and also supports USB or bluetooth mice. By default, when the touchpad is turned on, it shows a circle on screen as your cursor - about the size of a finger tip. Move your finger on the touchpad, the cursor moves around. Click the left touchpad button or tap on the touchpad, it acts like a finger tap. Click the button and hold, it acts like a finger held down. Click the button and hold, and swipe to the side, and it acts like a finger swipe to the side. Click the button and hold and swipe up, and the web page or document scrolls up - no need for a scroll bar. It's very intuitive if you already know how to use Android. (Side note: There ARE scroll bars in some apps on Android, but it's app-dependent. It depends on if the developer decides the app needs them.)

In addition, it supports some multi-touch gestures. For example swipe two fingers up, and it scrolls down in the document or web page. Swipe two fingers left or right on the touchpad while on your home screens, it changes home screens like you've done a finger swipe on the screen. I'm sure there are other multi-touch gestures it supports.

With all that said...I rarely use the touchpad on my Transformer, and I never use a mouse on it. I find it's much more intuitive and easy to simply use the touchscreen as my navigation - it's already there 6 inches away from my fingers, and is not a strain since the docked tablet is usually on my lap. Type on the keyboard, use the screen for navigating. The only time I use the touchpad is when I'm using Logmein to log into a Windows computer, when a touchpad is more usable than a touch screen.

Re:And...

[jedidiah]

For most pedestrian PC use cases, you don't need a bruiser of a CPU or a GPU. In the case of an HTPC, a lot of people (myself included) get great results out of using just about the most trailing edge kit available. Most home and office users don't push their machines. That's why tablets are so popular.

Most people outside of conspicous consumption gamers just don't push their systems.

Right now, I am not pushing my system. The most important aspect of my desktop right now is not the CPU or the GPU. It's the big fat monitor and nice keyboard. It's all of the parts that aren't the actual PC.

Re:And...

[unimacs]

Like it or not, I think we'll be seeing something different going forward. Instead of having one device that can do it all, the direction is to make your stuff available to all your devices. So rather than having tablet double as a desktop computer, the goal is to have the content accessible from either.

Re:And...

[jedidiah]

> Get a new printer and you sure can print from an iOS device directly.

It's still an inferior experience. It's inferior because it's dumbed down and something like quality is completely ignored.

The lowest common denominator approach gets you something like McDonalds. So PhoneOS devices become the Little Mac.

Re:And...

[gmhowell]

Where are you getting the idea that Apple... or any of Apple's fans... think that tablets will completely replace PCs?

Jedediah finds strawmen to be more appropriate combatants to his logical abilities

Re:And...

[jedidiah]

Nonsense. Linux uses the same printing system as a Mac.

is the Mac not ready?

It really takes very little tweaking to turn CUPS into an AirPrint system. It's so easy I don't know why they don't just enable it by default (on both Macs and Linux).

Re:And...

[jedidiah]

Microsoft seems to just be blindly trying to follow Apple rather than honestly appraising where their real strength lies (namely legacy apps) and leveraging that or at the very least making their ARM devices more closely intergrated with the rest of their own ecosystem.

Re:And...

[unimacs]

Weren't laptops freakishly expensive just to be used for everything a PC already did?

The fact is that laptops don't do everything as well as tablets. They're very difficult to use unless you have a flat surface to set them on. They take up more room. The batteries don't last as long. For the most part the lack a mature touch interface. They don't typically have displays that can be used in multiple orientations and they suck even worse for taking pictures than a tablet does.

To me even the name "surface" demonstrates how clueless Microsoft is when it comes to tablets. Their commercials show a bunch of people using Surfaces on tables. The beauty of a tablet is that you don't need a desk or table. You can use it while standing, sitting under a tree, or laying in bed.

Re: And...

[fredprado]

You seem to think you made a point. Please elaborate about the supposed relation between remote payment and content creation.

Re:And...

[VanessaE]

Well, it works for peanut butter and chocolate, so why not? ;-)

Re:And...

[dimeglio]

I'll take those iPads off your hands.

Re:And...

[idunham]

Regardless of whether this bit of sarcasm:

You're forgetting Apple and their fanboys. They fully expect tablets to displace PCs entirely. It doesn't matter if the task is well suited to the tablet form factor or not.

is phrased as flamebait, the other half is worthy of a +1 in my book:

Now with an HDMI and USB port, there's no good reason one kind of general purpose computer can't act like another. The main limitation is policy and whether or not the guy you buy your device wants to try and lock it down.

If there's anything you can't do after simply connecting the right peripherals (and installing any drivers!)...the only reasonable justification is that the software hasn't been written or installed yet. "You haven't licensed that functionality yet" is not an acceptable reason. (Note that I said functionality, not software.)
Selling a license to use a device as you see fit is not the same as making it not locked down.

Re:And...

[AdamInNYC]

People with tablets just want to do work via Remote Desktop and/or just get on the Net and use their browser or their ecosystem apps. If anyone cares, please make a sandbox app so we in ios can run andriod apps and enjoy both ecosystems.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

It is not difficult to set up. There is a simple control panel you run on a Mac called handyPrint that enables all printers the Mac can see as AirPrint compatible.
I regularly print to an HO OJ4500 and a Lexmark color laser from my iPhone and iPad.
Install takes 30 seconds and no advanced knowledge.

Re:And...

[Zemran]

I use a computer, I am a geek, my brother uses an iPad and is very happy with it. It does everything he wants, whereas I want to create web pages, documents etc. so I need more. Apple has given people choice and we need more choice so people can buy what suits them best. Gates is only upset because his offering to the tablet market is a flop. Windows 8 is rubbish and most people hate it so now it is Apple that is wrong. Talk about sour grapes.

Re:And...

[Grishnakh]

If you replace your old CRT monitor and TV, you'll probably recoup their cost in power savings within a year. Heck, just get some used LCD models off Craigslist for next-to-nothing.

Re:And...

[grantspassalan]

I am so disgusted that I can't get 3 tons of manure into a sports car. IPads and iPhones are computers just as much as that monstrosity that may still be sitting on your desk or gathering dust in some closet. Why does this nonsense of the death of the PC get propagated again and again and again and again and again? Desktop computers are like 18 wheelers, laptops correspond to delivery trucks, iPads are alike passenger cars as the iPhone is like a sports car. There, now you have a car analogy. I see plenty of 18 wheelers and delivery trucks on the roads amidst all the smaller vehicles. Similarly there will always be desktop and laptop computers in addition to their smaller brethren.

Re:And...

[jasnw]

The one time I wish I had mod points I don't. There are many of us "tired" folks out here, but I don't think we're in for any relief any time soon because it's the ADHD teenage Valley Girl market that seems to be driving where OS development goes these days. As I sit before my Mountain Lion OS X box at home I'm constantly reminded how much better my older/slower (hardware wise) Snow Leopard box at work is. I give Apple one more try at turning things around with their next major OS upgrade, and if it's another big step towards iOS I'm putting Snow Leopard on all my Apple boxes and planning for life as a techno hermit.

Re:And...

[Zemran]

I think that if you have a desktop PC, you now have more choice. Do you need a laptop or a tablet? If you only check the internet etc. while you are away from your PC then a tablet is great but if you travel and do real work then you might still want a laptop... Some people are happy with a smart phone and a PC. I do not own nor want a tablet but I think that giving people more choice is great and I am therefore a strong supporter of tablets. To be honest, I have thought about getting a small dumb phone so that it fits in my pocket better and a tablet to replace what the phone can do but I doubt that I will ever do that... it is about having these options to think about and to be able to choose whereas Gates just want people to do what he can make money from.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

No, he wants to sell everyone a pickup truck, which only uses Microsoft's own gas and oil.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

No, they need a ute! I've got my computer ute, otherwise known as an Asus Transformer Pad. You can do real work with it down on the farm, but the missus isn't embarrassed to be seen in it when we drive into town.

Re:And...

[grantspassalan]

When I want to work, I not only want a good keyboard, but also a big screen so I can see more of my work. This is why I use my desktop computer in my office where I have a large monitor or if I need to go on a trip, a laptop with a 15 inch screen. When I just want to surf the web or talk to friends on Skype, or read a Kindle book I use the iPad on my living room while relaxing on the couch. A $20 TracFone works fine when I need to phone someone while on the go. The rest of the time I use the phone on my desk, which I have done for more years than I care to remember.

Re:And...

[grantspassalan]

No matter how powerful a processor and how much memory you put in the tablet, you will always have a small screen compared to large desktop monitor. If you don't care much about efficiency in your work, you can get away with a tiny screen, but there isn't and there never will be a substitute for big screen real estate.

Re:And...

[sydneyfong]

Android stood on the shoulders of the "mess" that you're bashing as crappy. It's based on Linux kernel and toolset, and was born as a direct competitor to iOS, which had its roots in OSX. Besides, how is it not "reinventing the wheel, resolving old solved problems, etc., Stupid." ?

Re:And...

[Wovel]

Quality? Have you ever used AirPrint?

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why the hell do I need to print? Printing is what you do when you need to go to a meeting and can't take your box computer with you. If the image is portable (ipad) and I can mark up the image (ipad) I no longer need paper. Print is dead. So is MS.

Re:And...

[hawguy]

No matter how powerful a processor and how much memory you put in the tablet, you will always have a small screen compared to large desktop monitor. If you don't care much about efficiency in your work, you can get away with a tiny screen, but there isn't and there never will be a substitute for big screen real estate.

Go a few comments up the thread:

I would like to have a single device that is a lightweight tablet with a tablet interface, but when I drop it into a dock with a real keyboard, mouse, and screen

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

If I'd only had an iPad as a kid, instead of an 8088 with a compiler, I'm not sure I'd be a developer today.

I bet you could use Atari, Gameboy, NES, etc. and that sentence would still be true for you and many others.

PCs are not marketed towards or have any demand for end user programming, and it's been that way for over a decade. You can't just blame iPad for being what an iPad should be any more than you could whine about a NES not coming with a BASIC interpreter.

Before you say you can download a compiler, or Linux comes with XYZ, what I mean is general purpose computers are not meant for regular USERS to program anymore. I'm talking about about the time when a computer __HAD_TO__ ship with a BASIC interpreter, and the time from where things like ALGOL, ADA, COBOL, all came.

C/C++ are geared for system programming, not end users, and Java/C# target experienced developers. You'd have a hard time recommending Joe Bob use Perl/Ruby/Python/Shell to write custom small business software that's just too complex for a spreadsheet. A long time ago, the PC evolved into a marketplace where you buy boxed software that does whatever you want, or (sadly - IMO) change your ways to fit what software allows. Bingo bango - iPad.

I kind of wish PCs would evolve back into more programmable systems, and for the love of God nobody suggest UNIX with its famous line driven UI, and unstructured data files. Is it sad to dream for 70s mainframe features?

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

My phone is more powerful than the majority of computers I've used in my almost-20-year history working in information technology. It's silly to think it's not ever going to be considerable as a PC replacement.

Good for you.

While a phone or a Raspberry Pi certainly can do a lot of things these days they are far from enough for most people who work in IT, even if people may not realize it.

I have been working in IT for almost two years now (since finishing my M.Sc), and during these two years I have realized that the most important thing you are limiting with bad hardware is your own potential. When you are restricted by hardware you must make sacrifices and tradeoffs. When you are unlimited by hardware, you can spend your valuable time on making new and fun ideas possible.

Would you rather pat yourself on the back for solving parts of the problem at hand with the hardware you've got, or pat yourself on the back for solving the entire problem in a structured and elegant way, where you can be proud of the result? I admit it's fun to optimize for performance, but to be forced to do so because you do not have sufficient hardware forces you to re-prioritize your tasks in order to create an imperfect product.

I am currently working on a handy way of administrating distributed systems, and to do that I need to construct a whole bunch of virtual computers to test my ideas on. I am still only working on the scale of hundreds of virtual computers, but the hardware I have is suited for thousands of computers because that is the minimum amount that would be useful in this case.

I have recently finished an automated code and text analysis tool which is currently sitting on its own dedicated computer with a whole lot of harddisk space. Our developers can just upload their code there, and they get a generated report describing what problems their sourcecode has. By placing it on a dedicated machine, it is easy to increase its uptime (since developers rarely work normal hours) and to dedicate more power to heavy analysis.

Re:And...

[Svartalf]

Not as many as there've been cars sold...

Re:And...

[UltraZelda64]

No thanks, I happen to like their far-superior contrast levels. Plus, I prefer to play classic, non-HD games on a traditional television set with scanlines, and I like the extra vertical height of the old 1600x1200 monitor. Hell, even my current monitor has a better aspect ratio (16:10) than all the 16:9 movie-optimized HDMI-compatible junk available today. Yes, I like my vertical space. I use my computer for almost everything but movies, and for those rare times when I put a DVD in, it doesn't bother me at all to have thin, black, practically unnoticeable bars on the top and bottom of the screen.

Re:And...

[snadrus]

What's wrong with Ubuntu (in the context you stated)?
- Stable: > 5 years since last driver kernel panic.
- Consistent: any Unix-ish utility from the Win XP timeframe should work fine.
- Re-invent the wheel ..... feels unarchitected: The "old wheel" is still there in all its even-less-architected goodness if the newer push doesn't work for you.

FreeBSD may beat all these points & security, but lacks development pace. It depends on your needs: I wouldn't use FreeBSD as a Win XP desktop replacement.

Re:And...

[RatherBeAnonymous]

Replace a perfectly good laser printer just to support a $300 tablet? No thank you. I still have about two years worth of toner in it. In a larger environment, it's just annoying to see to a couple dozen printers show up with apparently random names. I turn Bonjour off for all of the newer printers at work. As others have posted, Linux can support Air Print. Windows can too with Apple's Bonjour Print Services for Windows. It's a pretty slick implementation. All of the network printers of any vintage are available with no drivers to worry about.

On the other hand, I don't understand why Apple didn't include a basic postscript driver in iOS; or Google with Android.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/hone.html

it is HOME IN like a fucking HOMING PIGEON.

Not HONE IN like a pointy headed inbred who learned to speak by watching moron-newsmodels blather about the latest video game war or Janet Jackson's tit on national TV.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

All the situations you describe I wouldn't count as "real work". Tablets are information consumption devices. When you need to enter data still cant beat a desk and keyboard.

Re:And...

[otuz]

Model M with its buckling springs is technically a membrane keyboard too. It just has a metal spring and plastic counterweight instead of a rubber membrane as on the cheapo keyboards. I'd say it's as mechanical as the scissor mechanism on laptops.

Re:And...

[lucm]

This is the same kind of flawed logic that is used by people who say that allowing same-sex marriage opens the door to adult-minor or human-animal marriage. Technically they are right (changing the definition of marriage is a requirement for those alternate scenarios) but it's stupid all the same.

Unfortunately I dropped out of school early to go earn moneys but I'm sure in college they teach about this typical logical flaw and even have a name for it. Otherwise college is worthless and I'm happy I did not go.

Re:And...

[lucm]

Bill Gates IMO does not get, but hey he is a PC guy!

Of course he gets it. This approach is typical Microsoft: embrace, extend, extinguish.

Apple has been growing too fast and keeps trying to wow the market to maintain their overinflated stock price so they started pushing products that are broken or at the very least not fully ready, and they even endanger their existing high-quality ecosystem (Adobe, etc) to make 99 cents games like Angry Birds available on their laptops without requiring a different build. Meanwhile Microsoft is working hard to repeat their success recipe: sell something that mostly works for 90% of the needs of 90% of the customers, and strong-arm OEMs in pushing their stuff. What is very likely to happen in the coming years is that people will end up thinking that a tablet is something like Surface, a convertible laptop, running the same Windows that they have on their laptops and PCs and possibly phones.

To anyone who thinks Bill Gates "does not get it", I strongly advise to watch the excellent movie Pirates of Silicon Valley (not the documentary). Especially that scene where Steve Jobs tells Bill Gates that Apple products are better, and Bill Gates replies this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgSYF0QIcCw

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's amazing how often people repeat this (ugly) line about "content creation" vs "content consumption" -- with the added clause that "people" don't get the difference etc. In fact almost nobody has trouble with this distinction, since Apple marketing has been hammering it into the heads of consumers, so that each of us will buy one of a phone, a tablet, and a laptop.

It's in fact quite reasonable for people to look at their near-10-inch tablet device, which seems to fuel a browser and a video player just fine, and think, "hey, maybe I could write a little on this thing!" There's no particular reason that just because Apple doesn't work harder at that HCI problem (and don't publish a usable filesystem) that they can't.

So Gates is right. What's happened is that with tablets, we have the death of the general purpose computer -- Microsoft, as much as we all love to bash them, should be credited for enabling a huge industry around open-ish hardware and the repurposable computer. Now we have "ecosystems" and increasing swaths of the web being corralled into "apps" for you to "consume".

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem with a houseboat is that it's a shitty house, on a shitty boat.

Re:And...

[preflex]

And Microsoft keeps demonstrating that they just don't get it, that no one seriously expect a tablet to be a PC...

That's only because Apple and Google have lowered expectations. I run Lubuntu+Kwin on my HP Touchpad, and I'm much happier with it than Android or WebOS. With slightly-oversized buttons and fat scrollbars, everything is fine. I have oodles of useful free software, and my tablet isn't slathered in advertising. I can run pretty much whatever software I please, LibreOffice, real Firefox, etc.. Even with my fat fingers, I never feel hobbled by the interface, because it's easily customized.

... no one wants their PC to be a tablet.

You're right about that. That's because today's mobile operating systems are so god-awful that they barely even useful on tablets. Nobody wants to take that suck-frenzy back home to their desktop.

Really, there should be no reason to distinguish between the two. Why shouldn't I get a normal desktop interface when I plug in a mouse and Keyboard? Why can't I switch back-and-forth between some sort of mobile and desktop mode at will? Should a computer really be neutered just because I can carry it around? Should it be gelded if I can fit it in my pocket?

Microsoft was almost one-third-right. Shamefully, they're not any worse than the other major players in that regard. Their solution was to shoehorn their moblie interface onto the desktop. That was really fscking stupid. They also ripped out the desktop interface entirely from WinRT. That was also pretty stupid. Which interface is presented should be a matter of context, based on available inputs/outputs.

It's really not that hard, or at least, it wouldn't be if the mobile vendors hadn't intentionally crippled our operating systems. A couple years ago, I compiled IceWM on my n900, and made a script to switch between IceWM and Hildon. When I connected my bluetooth mouse and keyboard and plugged it into the TV, I would switch from Hildon to IceWM. My apps would remain running. I could then enjoy my apps side-by-side. I could fire up Debian applications out of the chroot, and use them with my native window manager. Disconnect from TV: go back to Hildon. Everything stays running. While I never got around to it, it would be trivial to write a script that listens on D-Bus and switches automatically when connecting or disconnecting a mouse.

Of course, there were a few minor issues, and the 2009-era hardware wasn't quite there yet for the most pleasurable experience (800x480 resolution, 600Mhz Cortex A8 with 256MB RAM), but it was still useful. I thought I was looking at the future. The real deal couldn't be more than a year away, right?

I'm just one guy, and I'm far from an expert developer. If I could could get this close to Post-PC Nirvana in an afternoon, why has the industry failed to deliver? On modern mobile hardware with gigs of RAM quad-core processors and HDMI 1080p output this would fly! Why has the industry failed to deliver, when the technology has existed for YEARS?

Android is getting better. HID support is there, and we all know some sort of improved window management is coming (Is android about to become as good at window management as Windows 1.0?). Unfortunately, it still sucks pretty bad. The OS doesn't respond at all to the change in context. It doesn't care that I connected a mouse, It still wants to be touched. It doesn't care if I'm connected to 1080p output, everything's always still full screen. Maybe in a few years it won't suck so bad.

Ubuntu touch is aiming for the experience, but they seem hell-bent on breaking everything in the process. What makes ubuntu (and other GNU/Linux distros) great are their vast repositories of fresh software and the flexibility to run whatever DE you desire.

I'm not really sure what their plans are, but there's a lot of ways they can screw this up:

If the device refuses to allow

Re:And...

[blackest_k]

Yes an adapter "Works" but on android you get a lousy 640x400 ish display as the DRM doesn't like it.
Regular HDMI the display is nice and sharp and hires but via an adapter it is terrible.

I could understand* if it was video playback that it has issues with but everything even the home screen is reduced in quality.

*Still would be quite stupid on video's too as you can just copy them anyway.
 

Re:And...

[smash]

Exactly. tablet, phone, PC/mac/whatever serve entirely different purposes.

If i want to do wholesale document creation, I'll use my laptop. If I want to read/review do MINOR edits (or emergency remote admin, in my case) whilst in transit, i'll use the tablet, which I carry with me pretty much everywhere.

If i'm not at an "endpoint" type location or not on public transport, I'll use the phone.

Re:And...

[smash]

No. They/I fully expect tablets to replace PCs for many users (NOT all) who do not do large scale content creation / administration tasks. E.g., grandparents who just want to browse the internet, talk to their kids via video chat, etc. For them, a PC is totally un-necessary and a cost/maintenance burden they don't need.

What most of the slashdot crowd don't seem to get is that with flexibility comes complexity. There's a huge number of users out there who want a device to do basic tasks and be essentially maintenance free. Once you start adding significant complexity, it stops being maintenance free.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

And Microsoft keeps demonstrating that they just don't get it, that no one seriously expect a tablet to be a PC, and that no one wants their PC to be a tablet.

Really? I do. And even if I didn't see the benefit in a tablet with true PC functionality I'd want companies to try like hell to make it a reality anyway. Ambition driving creativity and progress and all that.

Re:And...

[smash]

Including cheap monitors you can get for under 150 bucks, today (for 21.5" widescreen full HD, no less). Moving forward this is NOT a barrier.

Re:And...

[smash]

If you're determined to rail against new stuff you can pull any manner of bullshit reasons out. I used to prefer 4:3 too, but after using 16:10 (which yes, you can get), I much prefer it as I can have two things open side by side for more effective multitasking. A decent modern LED/LCD has quality that is more than good enoguh and likely better than some 10-15 year old CRT.

Re: And...

[smash]

Yeah, bill "thinks" people need one of whatever microsoft are pushing this week.

Re:And...

[smash]

HDMI is so fucking last decade. WIDI is the way forward. With 10 hour usage life WHY the FUCK do i want to plug my device into a fucking cable?

Re:And...

[smash]

I'm attempting to do the exact thing you describe, sort of - with an iPad mini, BT keyboard and a display adapter. Using VMware View (i.e., remote desktop to a VM running on my vSphere cluster) for my Windows desktop.

It is frustratingly close, but there are several faults: BT keyboard doesn't support all the Windows keypresses required via View. The display runs in 1024x768 which is a bit... meh. Haven't tried it with my iPad 4 yet though.

But, this is the way I see things going. I want a tablet with "all day" battery life, inductive charging, WIDI, BT keyboard and BT mouse. I want to be able to get to work, plonk it on my desk (on a charging pad), have it see my keyboard/mouse/screen and "just work".

When I leave work for the day, I want to just pick it up, have the connection fail over from local WIFI to IPSEC secured IPv6 over cellular, and carry on via touch interface. When i get home, have it sync up to the devices i have on my desk at home.

This carrying a laptop around thing is bollocks. It's not needed. All my data is on teh cluster, backed up, on highly available hardware, etc. If i want more CPU / RAM, i just provision more in vSphere. The tablet hardware is pretty irrelevant, so long as it can run view.

Re:And...

[Hognoxious]

Right click on the object, then choose zoom in, zoom out or whatever off the menu that pops up.

Oops. We're talking Apple.

Re:And...

[Winckle]

I believe, on the mac side at least, the issue was some sort of patent HP has on wireless printing. I was looking forward to the original airprint, which Apple beta'd with software to put on your mac to let iPads use printers on it. This software was later removed, and the part of apple's site about airprint had a list of HP printers to buy instead. From the beta's withdrawal came the release of "airprint activator" a nice third party tool that did what apple's software was supposed to before it got lawyered to death.

Re:And...

[smash]

Why carry the cores with you? move them to the dock, or even better, to a remote machine (home server, cloud service, whatever) and reduce the size, weight and battery consumption of the device.

Re:And...

[smash]

Thus, you can use a tablet CPU / GPU and just plug into peripherals such as screens, mice and keyboards (or even better connect to them wirelessly).

Re:And...

[smash]

Only in america. Elsewhere, we don't like salt with our chocolate.

Re:And...

[smash]

With something like View, you can ramp up the CPU / RAM / Storage far in excess of what you'll have in a typical desktop/laptop - on your tablet. I could, for example allocate 96 GB of RAM to my VDI image right now if i wanted to, and run it on my tablet.

Re:And...

[gbjbaanb]

who plugs a mouse in anymore - surely you have a bluetooth one. I mean I even have a wireless mouse on my desktop.

Re:And...

[smash]

A laptop is "freakishly expensive" to do stuff my desktop already does. Oh wait... it's not as portable. Zing...

Re:And...

[BasilBrush]

Which isn't "working perfectly". Pinch zoom gives complete freedom of zoom, both amount and center.
The horribleness you've suggested is a stepped zoom, from a fixed center.

And then we get to the much more common and not even multitouch gesture of flicking a list of a web page in order to scroll a big distance. It's not something that you can do with any control with a mouse.

Scroll wheel? What about horizontal flicks and swipes.

Yes, we're talking Apple. So quality of interface matters. Android users might be willing to put up with shit because that's what they're used to.

Re:And...

[ericloewe]

Who said anything about Android? Why should the concept not work because Google made some weird decisions with Android? Plenty of operating systems and platforms out there that work seamlessly with mixed DVI and HDMI.

Re:And...

[terjeber]

I don't know what part of the world you live in, but it appears to be limited to the inside of the walls of your house. Dark chocolate with sea salt is amazing. Salt with chocolate has been popular all over the world (or the parts that have access to chocolate) for a long time.

Then again, not everybody likes real chocolate either and stick with what they get in the candy store, which has only a theoretical connection to chocolate.

Re:And...

[BasilBrush]

Tablets are already showing themselves to be far more popular than Smart Cars. And they're only 3 years old versus the 20 years Smart's been expanding their market.

Tablets are a big growth market, and by the time they reach saturation, their ownership is going to look like cars in general, not just Smart cars. Tablets provide more utility to the average person than you are giving them credit for.

And "car and trailer" is a base product plus occasional add-on, and thus matches a tablet that can be docked far better than your suggestion of a laptop. And similarly car+trailer is a relatively rare choice. And laptops are mainstream, more popular these days than desktops, so it doesn't work that way either.

No, the original analogy works better.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem with your approach is that when I have a tablet I want battery life and ease of use. And when I use a PC I want power, and speed! They are orthogonal to each other. As the CAP theorem, says, you can have 2 out of 3, not all three, so choose what you want.

So you are saying...
-Battery life
-Ease of use
-Power
-Speed
Pick 2 out of 3?

Re:And...

[TheRaven64]

You don't need to carry around the adaptor, you leave it attached to your monitor and plug in the tablet when you get near it...

Re:And...

[AmiMoJo]

Samsung phones have 8 CPU cores, four of them high performance and four of them low power. It was years ago that laptops with both low power integrated and high performance discrete graphics started to appear. We have a solution to this problem, and with a bit of ingenuity the high performance stuff could probably be in the base and hot-pluggable.

Re:And...

[mapkinase]

I will go out on a limb and say that every single office that creates content will need a normal PC with a normal input. Touch has been there forever in blue collar jobs: restaurants, car service.

The only revolution we see related to touch is entertainment and mobile computing. Tablets are pretty convenient when you watch movies and browse internet in bed and smartphones are convenient for doing the same in the subway.

All other areas are pretty much unaffected.

Re:And...

[mabhatter654]

The need for clumsy printing hacks is more to do with how companies build printers that REQUIRE CPU-sucking drivers than anything Apple is doing. iOS and android can almost directly print to "pure" postscript or PCL printers. The ones that corporate networks use.

It's just that Gates talked everybody into using "software" drivers to enhance profits by declaring no more drivers and make you buy new stuff.

Re:And...

[Bing Tsher E]

Wouldn't they have to pay a postscript license fee to Adobe for each unit? Or is there a ghostscript solution they could use?

Re:And...

[Bing Tsher E]

So, you're saying 'You Cut Off Their Tails With A Carving Knife'?

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

And hasn't Windows RT done well...

Re:And...

[mabhatter654]

"The trick is providing something that is truly useful without cannibalizing Laptop/Desktop sales"...

That is why Microsoft FAILS. Apple let's iPad be what it wants to be, and its WAY BIGGER than all the Macs Apple Sells. Microsoft Could easily get $60 per iPad with a full Office suite. That's MORE MONEY than they get per PC for Windows... Microsoft cannot see how to "bet the farm" on something and make it stick, they have basically failed to create one NEW product line that beats the profits of their previous products.

Re:And...

[MachineShedFred]

Because a fully capable PC and a tablet have two completely different modes of input? And before you start harping on about touchscreen monitors for your desktop, please realize that they totally suck ergonomically, and are anathema to any visual design work, as it's incredibly hard to get color accuracy through extra layers of capacitive digitizer and fingerprint smudge.

Re:And...

[MachineShedFred]

The ThinkPad Helix may be the hardware answer.

Not the cheapest (by far) but if you would be buying a thin performance laptop and a tablet, this would be cheaper than buying those two devices, and it is both of those devices. With a Core i7. Sure, it isn't going to be the best performer for games, but it will smoke any of the Atom tablets out there, and Lenovo will have Win7 drivers for it if you just can't abide by Windows 8 (which I can't).

I'm told that if you use it with the keyboard attached, you'll get 10 hours of battery life. Waiting to get my hands on one to put that to the test.

Re: And...

[MachineShedFred]

When you put several hundred radios in the same general area (cube farm) you'll realize why a wired connection is still useful. You can't beat physics.

Re: And...

[mabhatter654]

Because lots of people create content that's NOT ON A COMPUTER. Auto mechanics, plumbers, trainers, artists, birthday clowns.... While Square helps them Create Bank Account! If you were one of those professions, you could do 75% of your daily work from your phone or tablet, you just need the PC for Taxes and such.

Re:And...

[shikaisi]

Well, it works for peanut butter and chocolate, so why not? ;-)

Peanut butter makes a dreadful combo with my tablet.

Chocolate on my tablet is not much better. Am I missing something here?

Re:And...

[NJRoadfan]

or a basic PCL driver for that matter. Both are established printer standards at this point. Airprint appears to use PDF, which many printers support direct raster of nowadays, but does it in a non-standard way as opposed to using standard IPP, which many printers also support.

Re:And...

[NJRoadfan]

Your aren't alone. A lot of people are sticking with Snow Leopard due to its speed, stability, and more importantly, its ability to run PowerPC apps. http://lowendmac.com/roundtable/12rt/038-snow-leopard.html
A similar situation exists with Tiger, the last PowerPC version of OS X that can run Classic and runs much faster than Leopard ever did on those machines.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

Innovation has stopped dead in its tracks, and the only thing anyone can think to do is change for the sake of change. Shuffle the menus and icons around. Cripple the user interface. Break what used to work. Put a touchscreen UI on a server OS that runs mainly in VMs. Anything to create a new release, because the churn must continue. New programming languages, new MVC frameworks, new database access methods, anything to keep up the constant churn. Nothing is improving at the moment, just changing.

Re:And...

[ILongForDarkness]

Windows store already supports third party payment options. At least with MS if you don't want to pay them there 30% on your sale you have an option. Apple not so much.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

no one seriously expect a tablet to be a PC, and that no one wants their PC to be a tablet.

Razer is one company that would disagree with you. Then don't forget about other UMPC-like gadgetry such as the Open Pandora. Consoles are moving closer and closer to PC X86 architectures, and we with Intel's Medfield processor, it won't be too long until the next "Gameboy" (DS, PSP, whatever) is boasting an x86 chip and can run those same apps we know and love.

While a tablet will never replace a PC in terms of top-of-the line, triple screen, surround sound gaming, there are still people out there that want a general purpose processor they can put in their pocket. I for one like the idea of a portable x86 because I frequently play some of the older games in my archive, and I think it would be great to be able to play Duke3d, Starcraft, Warcraft 1-3, Unreal, or some other classic games whenever/wherever I wanted. Without carting around a laptop or desktop.

Re:And...

[dzfoo]

The trick is providing something that is truly useful without cannibalizing Laptop/Desktop sales.

And therein lies the business problem: the use case for tablets overlaps and even extends beyond that of the traditional PC. Moreover, they seem to fulfill the promises of ease of use, portability, multimedia capabilities, and personal adaptability that PCs have been making for two decades now. As such, the tablet market appears to be bigger than the one for traditional PCs.

If a business insists in ignoring this to avoid the cannibalization of their current PC cash-cow, a competitor will come along and do it for them.

Oops! I guess they already have.

      dZ.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

So all that noise from Apple about the tablet heralding the end of the PC/laptop is equally off the mark, yes?

Re: And...

[UnknowingFool]

What I said is that not all work == "content creation". If you are a business, you need to be able to handle payments. You can of course only accept cash or checks but that limits the amount of business you can do. Accepting credit cards means additional work. Or did you think that you paying with a card means the business auto-magically gets money deposited to their bank accounts? Just like cash or checks, A business has to do some additional work to transfer money to their accounts and balance their books.

Using traditional swipe payment systems like a POS system costs money. And you have to deal with each credit card system separately and their associated fees. That's why some places don't accept Discover or American Express. They charge 4-5% and other fees. Or you could use your smartphone or tablet and use Square and only deal with one company that charges 2%. I think there is a cap on the number of transactions so this makes Square ideal for small businesses.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

The Airprint server I use. Easy to set up but you need to have a computer online then to allow printing.

http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-57384238-285/print-from-an-idevice-with-airprint-activator-its-free/

Re: And...

[fredprado]

Well, and what I said is that if your work does not require content creation tablets are a good tool, but when it does, which is the case quite often laptops are clearly superior. And no content creation doesn't mean only what you can do with word processors and spreadsheets, programming. Making CAD drawings, 3D Meshes, creating models in Matlab or Matematica, and many other tasks are best performed in laptops than tablets.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

Debian does.

Re: And...

[fredprado]

So, you you agree with my thesis, right? Tablets are not adequate if you need to create content.

Re:And...

[marcosdumay]

I don't know why nobody is talking about the MS market. What I know is that I'm not talking about it because it's a combination of:

- Too obvious to get people of guard. Software developers are taking the needed precautions about it.
- Too ridiculous to continue long term. If MS wants to close Windows, it's themselves that they are killing, not me. Something open will take their place fast.
- Somewhat convenient. If they don't close Windows, it's just a very nice optional way to distribute software.

When compared to Secure Boot, for example, it's easy to decide what to fight and what to ignore.

Re:And...

[RatherBeAnonymous]

I truthfully don't know how the licensing works, but Apple has supported Postscript network printers for as long as I can remember and their iPad profit margins are generous, so I don't see an excuse. iOS is a subset of OSX, so it shouldn't be too hard for them to port LPD and the native Postscript driver. I hadn't thought about Ghostscript, I'm not really familiar with it, but CUPS supports postcript and PCL printers. Bundling it with iOS, and especially Android, should be possible.

At work I have implemented an Airprint solution for my iOS users, but it requires that the application understand the protocol. On my Android phone I use PrinterShare Pro, which can open a range of documents and print them to many PCL compliant printers. It makes me want to tear my hair out. Printing was a solved problem, and now we are going back to the bad old days, like when every DOS program had to include it's own print driver.

Re: And...

[UnknowingFool]

Here's the thing: you still equate content creation with traditional forms like documents and spreadsheets. Content can be email. A nutritionist discussing his/her client over email about the dangerous of artificial sweeteners is content. Content can be annotated text that a lawyer sends to a colleague about their next court filing. Content is broader than these limits. People do not need a PC for this content anymore.

Re:And...

[RatherBeAnonymous]

I am so disgusted that I can't get 3 tons of manure into a sports car. IPads and iPhones are computers just as much as that monstrosity that may still be sitting on your desk or gathering dust in some closet. Why does this nonsense of the death of the PC get propagated again and again and again and again and again? Desktop computers are like 18 wheelers, laptops correspond to delivery trucks, iPads are alike passenger cars as the iPhone is like a sports car. There, now you have a car analogy. I see plenty of 18 wheelers and delivery trucks on the roads amidst all the smaller vehicles. Similarly there will always be desktop and laptop computers in addition to their smaller brethren.

It's not a valid analogy. The iPad 2 can put out over 1.5 Gigaflops. These pocket computers are remarkably powerful. When people realize what their devices are capable of, but can't due to imposed limitations, they inevitably ask "why".

Re:And...

[Remus Shepherd]

Perhaps you are the one who doesn't get it. Why should a fully capable PC and a tablet be two different experiences?

Because a fully functional PC is for content creation while a tablet is for content consumption. And many people don't understand the difference.

Very well said.

I think the disconnect is that computer manufacturers like to lump their customers as either content creators or consumers, when in reality almost every computer user is both. Kids who play videogames eventually learn to code them, or to create their own animations. Grandparents who barely know how to turn the computer on will someday want to post pictures of their family. Mothers who mostly swap gossip and recipes will someday want to create posters for their bake sale. It's too easy to switch between consumption and creation to consider those activities as always separate.

I have yet to meet a computer user who does not create content of some sort, and I do not know anyone who uses a tablet exclusively. All the tablet owners I know also own a PC -- a laptop, at least. Users will not be satisfied with one or the other. And since there is no satisfying way to provide both tablet and PC experiences in one device, I wish manufacturers would stop trying.

Re:And...

[deboli]

Agreed. Failing that I'd settle for a facility where I can connect my tablet and it becomes a storage device and my files that can be edited with workstation software and tablet software without having to go through an interface like itunes....

Re:And...

[Barlo_Mung_42]

The wire isn't the issue, it's the cursor. iPads don't have a cursor.

Re:And...

[blackest_k]

It's not an Android thing it's a DRM thing, and not being able to use your hardware properly due to content providers concerns about content that hasn't even been on the device in question.

Take a photo with your device, want to upload it to somewhere other than a pre determined set of sites well tough you can't (try posting a photo or attachment to a forum from a mobile OS.

I wouldn't mind if the app stores were trustworthy but they repeatedly shown to be not. I'm looking particularly at googles play store where the trusted repository can not be trusted. I can only hope there will be a fully functional linux on a tablet this year.

I'm just a little annoyed with some of the 'features' of mobile platform

 

Re:And...

[MightyMartian]

I have no problem using my Nexus 7 with a mouse. It works well enough. But why would I want windows management on a 7" screen? I don't actually want windows at all. I'm content with a task switcher, which Android and iOS have.

Re:And...

[MightyMartian]

They do? My wife accepts that her Kobo Arc can't run Photoshop, nor does she have any desire for it to run Photoshop. We have a PC for that.

Re:And...

[Barlo_Mung_42]

That's why surface is so great. I don't have to add a bunch of stuff to make it a functional travel system that can do some real work.

Re: And...

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I think Gates is hoping to invent the SUV. At least it does look like that is the way the introduction of ultrabook convertibles is pointing.

Re:And...

[Richy_T]

I haven't tried the hdmi-dvi thing so I'll take you word for it. But what-in-heck are you talking about with photo uploads? I post pictures to forums from my phone all the time.

Re:And...

[Richy_T]

Maybe. But there's probably a few ways to do it, especially if multi-touch is interpreted by the OS. On a modern mouse, you'll typically have middle & right click and a scroll wheel to spare.

Re:And...

[bkcallahan]

A-fucking-men

Re:And...

[LihTox]

You could put a second battery in the dock for portability, maybe a second graphics card or more RAM as well? It's kind of like having a separate computer and tablet, except their states and their hard drives stay synced.

Re:And...

[lgw]

I find it hard to believe that having more cores on a die would add any noticeable weight, or power draw when unused. Cooling, OTOH, could be an issue.

Re: And...

[fredprado]

You can make any definition to be broader and broader until uselessness. You seem to equate all kinds of communication with content. If that is your definition, then any electronic device is able to be used to optimally generate some subset of it, even dumbphones.

In your own example, calling your client with a dumbphone and warning him is even more optimal than sending him an e-mail typed in a tablet or in a laptop. Now if you want to send him an e-mail with a day to day list of dishes he should eat for a week for example, a laptop is considerably more efficient than a tablet.

The point is, although you can generate and store information in tablets their interfaces are suboptimal to generate any information, and the point where a tablet's size and portability become poor trade ofs for its lack of input efficiency comes very quickly as the amount of data needed to be generated increases.

Re:And...

[freezin fat guy]

Steve jobs himself said, "When we were an agrarian nation, all cars were trucks because that's what you needed on the farms." Cars became more popular as cities rose, and things like power steering and automatic transmission became popular.

Great analogy even if the history within it is completely ficticious.

Re:And...

[preflex]

I have no problem using my Nexus 7 with a mouse. It works well enough. But why would I want windows management on a 7" screen?

For the same reason you would want it on a 20 inch screen. To view the output of multiple programs simultaneously. Is a 10 inch tablet too small for window management? A 10 inch netbook? The only difference between a 10-inch tablet with a keyboard plugged in and a laptop should be the hinge. If you don't want it, don't use it.

If nobody wants it, why did Samsung implement it (badly)?
If nobody wants it, why is ParanoidAndroid implementing it?

Like I said, It's coming. Eventually, this feature will be in stock Android. I hope this doesn't upset you.

(BONUS ROUND!) Android's default task switcher sucks really bad on my tablet too. It just shows all the open applications in one long row or column that you have to scroll through, ignoring all the empty space on the screen. It wastes time and screen space and it's really easy to close stuff by accident if there's a little bit of angle to your stroke when you're scrolling through the list. (EXTRA BONUS ROUND!) Then you get to go back to the home screen first, and into the app tray because there's no way to get to the app tray directly from the task switcher, then hunt through a long uncategorized alphabetical list of all the programs installed on your tablet spanning multiple pages. Fun!

Compared to Maemo, WebOS, Plasma Active, and SailfishOS, That really sucks!

Android is a bad joke. The punchline is iOS.

Re:And...

[preflex]

The trick is providing something that is truly useful without cannibalizing Laptop/Desktop sales.

That would be a good trick! If it's truly useful, it will cannibalize Laptop/Desktop sales. Unless it's intentionally crippled, then it wouldn't be truly useful.

Waitaminute -- Mobile devices are crippled. And they're already eating Laptop/Desktop sales.

Re:And...

[preflex]

There's no technical bar here - it just seems to be a mindset thing. Tablet / PC / console / HTPC - why not have the tablet be the core of all of that, and just switch UI "experience" depending on what input devices and display I'm using at the moment? Let the software developers choose to support whichever of those "experiences" they care about for their products.

Industry goons keep saying "nobody wants this". For some reason, people believe them.

Don't fret. Ubuntu Touch will be here soon. The KDE devs are working on switching between Plasma Active and Plasma Desktop on-the-fly.

You're right about there being no technical hurdle. Heck, I was doing this two years ago in my N900, switching between Hildon-Desktop and IceWM. I never bothered to script automatic switching, but it would be trivial. The N900 hardware wasn't really up to snuff, I just did it to prove a point. The biggest issue wasn't CPU performance, but being limited to 800x480 over composite video. With modern hardware and HDMI, this should be a no-brainer.

Re:And...

[grantspassalan]

No matter how powerful a processor and how much memory you put in the tablet, you will always have a small screen compared to large desktop monitor. If you don't care much about efficiency in your work, you can get away with a tiny screen, but there isn't and there never will be a substitute for big screen real estate.

Go a few comments up the thread:

I would like to have a single device that is a lightweight tablet with a tablet interface, but when I drop it into a dock with a real keyboard, mouse, and screen

That was essentially what I have and it is called an iPad. It communicates wirelessly with a screen that is called an iMac and synchronizes all important information between the two. The screen is the most expensive part of most computing devices. A 27 inch screen is not exactly cheap. For a marginal increase in cost, a powerful processor, storage and a decent keyboard can be added to the iPad. As a bonus, I can use the big screen for real work my home office, while someone else uses the iPad in the kitchen to look up some recipes.

Re:And...

[hawguy]

No matter how powerful a processor and how much memory you put in the tablet, you will always have a small screen compared to large desktop monitor. If you don't care much about efficiency in your work, you can get away with a tiny screen, but there isn't and there never will be a substitute for big screen real estate.

Go a few comments up the thread:

I would like to have a single device that is a lightweight tablet with a tablet interface, but when I drop it into a dock with a real keyboard, mouse, and screen

That was essentially what I have and it is called an iPad. It communicates wirelessly with a screen that is called an iMac and synchronizes all important information between the two. The screen is the most expensive part of most computing devices. A 27 inch screen is not exactly cheap. For a marginal increase in cost, a powerful processor, storage and a decent keyboard can be added to the iPad. As a bonus, I can use the big screen for real work my home office, while someone else uses the iPad in the kitchen to look up some recipes.

If your iMac was just a display device, then what you describe is what the original poster was asking for, but since your iMac is a smart device that hosts the apps (that aren't the same apps that are on the iPad), you have no assurance that it can handle the files that were synced from the iPad. If the tablet is the computing device, then you know that you can take it anywhere - home, work, a friends house, hotels, etc, plug it into a display and all of your apps will be there and everything will work just as it did at home. Would you trust a hotel computer enough to sync your data up to it?

A 27" screen costs $390 or $999 if you buy it from Apple. A 27" iMac costs $1799. So you're paying $800 - $1400 more to have an iMac at home versus having a dumb display that uses your tablet as the computer -- you can buy your wife her own iPad with the savings.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

I wouldn't mind if the screen on my laptop was removable, if it worked just like magic. and the usb ports on the base unit kept working when the screen was detached and it was in range. that would be sweet at home.

You get exactly this with something like an Acer Iconia W700. It's a full PC (not really for high end gaming, but for everything else) while docked in the docking station, a laptop while in the carry case, and a tablet while standalone. It's a little heavier than an Android tablet, but damn if it doesn't provide a really slick all-in-one. You can install Win7 (or XP) if you hate Win8, or you can even install Linux - although Linux seems to have an issue pairing with the default Bluetooth Keyboard in the carry case. Price is reasonable too since you get all 3 devices in one.

I've got one of these W700s and it's been really slick for what I need... a fully portable workstation/PC that I can easily take with me on business trips. I have all my personal files, I have my entire home PC with me at all times while travelling, and when I get home, I pop it into the dock.

Re:And...

[UltraZelda64]

But the point was portability, which indicates taking one portable form factor computer system all over the place and just being able to plug it in and use it wherever you go as long as you've got a USB keyboard and mouse (and in fact, those two items are pretty easy to come across--no argument there). Unless every place you go, every person you know has a DVI-to-HDMI adapter and is willing to let you use their TV/monitor for a bit while you're there, then nope--you will need to bring your own converter.

Which makes a tiny, all-in-one, portable general-purpose Frankencomputer quite useless. And a PITA to set up if you consider the hassle reaching behind the tower to access the keyboard and mouse USB cables and their ports before and after using the thing.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure you already know this, but just in case you don't: there have been bluetooth keyboards/various input devices for ipads since the year they were brought out. But you're right, they definitely go nicely for those who have a need for them!

Re:And...

[ericloewe]

They haven't proven to be more than just a fad, like Netbooks, however.

Re:And...

[pseudorand]

> no one seriously expect a tablet to be a PC
As a sysadmin that doesn't get to approve IT purchases but has to support them once they're here, that is absolutely NOT true. Most of my users want an iPad. Most need to be told that they ALSO have to have a desktop or laptop to actually do their jobs.

Re:And...

[grantspassalan]

Why would I want to sync my iPad to a hotel computer? It syncs directly with Apple or Dropbox and when I get back home all my stuff is on the iMac also. I also can take my iPad to a friend's house and plug it into their big TV which has an HDMI input connection. Anything I can display on the iPad will also display on the screen. I don't need a dock for this!

I do have assurance and it works great that the apps I use on my iPad also exist for my iMac. Pages, Numbers and Keynote work great on the iPad and I can also use the with the same programs on my iMac. I even have a couple of games that work on both. Apple is great for integrating all of their devices, better than anyone else that I know of.

I agree with you that if I had to buy only a 27" screen, I would certainly not buy an iMac to use for that purpose. The point is already had the iMac as most people these days already have a desktop or laptop and are buying an iPad or iPhone to take with them wherever they go. I think only a small percentage of the population uses an iPad or iPhone as their only computing device. I use my car every day, but if I need a truck I borrow or rent one.

Re:And...

[TheRaven64]

No. Most modern displays (even TVs) can take HDMI input. You need VGA output to connect to the old CRT monitor that you don't want to upgrade. The issue isn't that the new tablet doesn't work in random places, it's that it doesn't work in a single specific place. The fix for that is to add an adaptor in that specific place, not to carry one everywhere.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

blah blah blah.. Both sides.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's silly to think it's not ever going to be considerable as a PC replacement.

You either made a typo or a funny there. Or you just don't get it, like Microsoft.

The only defining characteristics of a "PC" since the day of its creation are the peripherals. A keyboard, a monitor, a pointing device, an optional printer. What is under the hood is irrelevant, if we looked at that we would be calling 20 year old PCs "washing machines" or "calculators" because that's about the amount of processing power that they have.

Now of course, you can hook all those things up to a phone or pad, and turn it into a PC that way. But that's exactly what you've done then, you've turned it into a PC, it seized to be a "mobile device" at that instant.

It's a bit like saying a bicycle is a good replacement for an aeroplane. After all they are both used to transport people, right? And look, when I add wings, a jet engine, a couple of rows of seats, smaller wheels, remove the locomotive pedals and add some pedals for control, it works just as well as an aeroplane, right? Well of course it does, because that's what you just built.

Re:And...

[hawguy]

Why would I want to sync my iPad to a hotel computer? It syncs directly with Apple or Dropbox and when I get back home all my stuff is on the iMac also. I also can take my iPad to a friend's house and plug it into their big TV which has an HDMI input connection. Anything I can display on the iPad will also display on the screen. I don't need a dock for this!

You sound like you're pretty happy with using your iPad for mobile computing and your iMac for home computing when you want a big screen and keyboard (and you're satisfied with using a tablet UI even on a big non-touchscreen display), but if you go a few comments up the thread, this thread was started by this comment:

I would like to have a single device that is a lightweight tablet with a tablet interface, but when I drop it into a dock with a real keyboard, mouse, and screen , it switches UI modes to the right UI for that. A "single experience" would be a flawed approach IMO.

So apparently not everyone likes having to switch from tablet to desktop and would rather have a tablet that becomes a desktop when plugged into a dumb (and relatively cheap) dock. You seem happy with your iMac + iPad solution, so this is probably not something that you would be interested in.

Re:And...

[ceoyoyo]

Yes. The GP also said:

People who do real work use a "fully functional PC".

There are a variety of "real work" jobs where a tablet can be very useful either alone or in combination with a "fully functional PC." Examples are included in my previous post. "Content creation" does not equal real work. Lots of people don't "create content" when they're doing real work, and those jobs are often ones that are most valued by society: pilot, physician, some kinds of lawyer.

Re:And...

[excelsior_gr]

I have been using Office for ages. At work I have a WinXP and a Win7 machine with Office 2003 and 2010 respectively. I find myself switching to Office 2003 very often, especially when using Excel. When using PowerPoint less so, probably because of the following reason. In Excel, I almost always want to calculate something that takes brain cycles to implement, whereas in PowerPoint it is more about the aesthetics and whether a slide "works" or not, i.e. less brain-work (well, at least not that part of the brain anyway). I find the Office 2010 GUI to be more "brain-cycle-demanding" than the old interface. That is, you need to think under which function the button you need is to be found so that you can click through the ribbon items. With the old interface I used a spatial organization of the menu bars that I needed the most, which made using the software much like driving a car or playing a game: your hand would move the mouse towards the right menu "automatically" without you having to explicitly think about going there. You could thus keep focused on what you were doing and the software did not demand your attention, it was just "out of the way". It needed more screen real-estate, but why do we have these huge monitors nowadays for?

I'm self-taught and never, ever, really needed tutoring. Google was my friend for the most challenging of cases. Tomorrow, I have my first training booked for helping me out with the mess of Excel 2010 after more than a decade of usage. Nice going Microsoft.

Re:And...

[Summitlake]

Aye, just what we all need is a tablet with a full Office installation; hopefully, msconfig, a Windows registry if it doesn't already have one, and registry hacks. Maybe a new Vista retro look. I would no doubt love my iPad a lot more if I had to wait 1/2 hour for the weekly Windows Update before I could either use it or shut it off. I assume the Windows tablet will have OS2 keyboard and mouse ports, alt-shift-control keyboard shortcuts galore, a fan, and built-in BSOD. Cheers ...

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

If only Snow Leopard was working on contemporary Apple hardware....

Re:And...

[blackest_k]

via an app? in a browser uploading files is a problem

Re: And...

[Anonymous Coward]

Works fine with my iPad. Pretty sure it's an Android thing.

Re: And...

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't use a CRT anymore. After about an hour it hurts my eyes.

Re:And...

[smash]

Cooling is exactly the issue. The processor itself weighs not much, however the traces on the circuitboard, the heat sink, the additional space for the chip, etc all contribute to carrying around something bigger (to fit all that stuff in) and thus, heavier.

Re:And...

[jedidiah]

The main limiting factor there are tablet vendors that want us all to be helpless couch potatoes.

The main limitation is policy, not tech.

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

"A true Scotsman" who does "real work" uses a "fully functional PC".

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

No USB. Less space than a desktop. Lame.

Re:And...

[skovnymfe]

Windows doesn't use .local by default, it's just become common practice over the years to set your domain up like that. But any Windows admin worth his salt knows .local domains creates tons of conflicts with Apple devices, and so anyone wishing to support Apple devices also knows not to use that tld.

Re:And...

[Hognoxious]

Why is it necessarily stepped? There's no reason the control that pops up couldn't be a slider. That took me 30 whole seconds to think of.

Fact is, a well designed interface can accept multiple types of input, but you're too much of a fanboy to see it.

Re:And...

[Norwell Bob]

Ya, Bill Gates is the last person I'd take advice from when it comes to Apple products.

For me, Steve Jobs would be the last guy I'd ask about Apple products. 'Cuz, you know... he's dead...

Re:And...

[BasilBrush]

There's no reason the control that pops up couldn't be a slider. That took me 30 whole seconds to think of.

I can tell.

A slider is used for values between fixed limits.

Fact is, a well designed interface can accept multiple types of input, but you're too much of a fanboy to see it.

CAN accept? Of course it CAN accept. That's a different thing from "works perfectly". Again, you're just revealing you have low standards.

Re:And...

[Richy_T]

I've never had a problem.

Re:And...

[Plumpaquatsch]

For most pedestrian PC use cases, you don't need a bruiser of a CPU or a GPU.

And you don't even need a PC, a tablet will do.

Re:And...

[david_thornley]

OK, you bought an iPad, and realize you need a keyboard. Instead of throwing out the iPad and buying a laptop, why not just buy a bluetooth keyboard?

Re:And...

[sdnoob]

perhaps, but i would absolutely LOVE a laptop i could rip the screen off of and use as a touch-enabled tablet... and it could even run windows 8, i wouldn't fucking care, just to get my hands on the hardware.

Re:And...

[blackest_k]

Could you do me a favour and go to gardenersworld.com/forum/ and see if you can write a post to the forum and upload an image you will need to request the desktop site or you will not get the toolbar with the image upload icon.
It might just be me but i cannot get a file to upload from android

Re:And...

[SimonTheSoundMan]

I live in the UK, don't think I have ever seen a F150. I see very few pickups too.

Re:And...

[kqc7011]

Got this from a Ford site, The F-150 has been the best-selling truck for 36 years in the U.S., and it's been the best-selling vehicle of any kind for 31 years. They build 7,500 trucks in the Dearborn plant per week.

Re: And...

[UnknowingFool]

And you still only equate content creation with word documents and spreadsheets for an office worker. In my example, calling a client with information isn't exactly the most ideal. How do you include hyperlinks in a phone conversation? Annotating text using a tablet with changes is content even by your example. It is using a different tool. Proofing an image doesn't require for publication doesn't always require a keyboard and mouse. In my previous job, I did a lot of coding. I almost never touched Word or Excel for it. Was I creating content? By your narrow defintion, no.

Re:And...

[SimonTheSoundMan]

US != The World

Re:And...

[herojig]

My Galaxy S4 replaced a desktop, and when not used that way I can put it my bag. Come on Bill, there's an elephant in the room!

Re:And...

[herojig]

A manufacture did! The S4 that's docked in my living room is the desktop for that area.

Yes

[coniferous]

Ipads are wonderful reference devices and even better video game machines. There aren't many places where I would recommend them for business.

Re:Yes

[MightyMartian]

And yet you go to any business conference nowadays, and the place is littered with iPads and other tablets. How odd it is that, whatever your advice might be, businesses are buying tablets and they are being seen out in the field.

You can certainly argue that business are wrong, but you can't argue with the fact that the tablet has made major inroads into the enterprise world.

Re:Yes

[Dahamma]

Except that may not be a symptom of the businesses (at least the ones relevant to the conference) adopting them as much as the proliferation of journalists, bloggers, and marketeers who really don't directly DO much related to the business besides go to conferences. And that being said, if you look closer they tend to be browsing the web and checking their Facebook and Twitter feeds on their tablets and phones more than paying any attention to what's going on at the conference ;)

Ironically, these are usually the same journalists, bloggers, and marketeers claiming tablets will replace PCs for people who actually do real work as well...

Re:Yes

[djdanlib]

The problem is that idiots run the world from management positions and tell us they don't care, just make it work.

Reference the guy who handed an iPad and an Office 2003 install disc and said get this working by tomorrow.

Re:Yes

[jefe7777]

iPad Jesus spotted on i50. iDetails on at 11.

Re:Yes

[foniksonik]

They use it as a bigger smartphone. Check email, take some quick notes, read news between presentations. Works great and yet nobody expects you to get any real work done. Perfect for conferences or meetings.

Re:Yes

[jon3k]

A lot (a whole fucking lot) of "business" is email and web browsing. Many of those people you see are executives or management in some form so it works great for their use case. Most don't need an office suite, or use it so infrequently, they also have a desktop PC or laptop for when they need to. Shit our regional staff used to survive on nothing but a blackberry, don't ask me how. I mean, at this point, I don't see how people still wave the "it's a fad" flag. People somehow think it's a zero sum game. If you have an iPad you can't do any work. Sometimes an iPad is the right device, sometimes you need a full desktop PC.

Re:Yes

[tlhIngan]

And yet you go to any business conference nowadays, and the place is littered with iPads and other tablets. How odd it is that, whatever your advice might be, businesses are buying tablets and they are being seen out in the field.

You can certainly argue that business are wrong, but you can't argue with the fact that the tablet has made major inroads into the enterprise world.

Probably because of a few things.

1) Tablets are generally light and very portable and easily held in one hand. If you're at a gathering where everyone is standing, it's easy to whip out a tablet and show people stuff - while still having your other hand free to gesture and communicate and other things. One-handed use is quite important when you do not have a surface to use as a stand. Holding a laptop in one hand is often awkward, clumsy, and until the recent touch screen ones, interactions are terrible.

2) Tablets have great battery life. An iPad or Android tablet will generally last all day even if you're showing lots of people your brochures and screenshots and stuff. PCs with such battery life usually have external batteries, making them really heavy and unwieldy, especially single-handed carry.

3) There is very little need to compose long documents while at the conference - you may need to type some stuff up quickly (like entering contact and calendar stuff), but that generally is quite minimal. If a document need does come up, it's often better to do it in a private hotel room to draft it and review it (only an idiot tries to compose it right then and there to get it signed - these things normally have to be drawn up and agreed upon and other things).

4) The most common use will probably be fulfilled by the tablet's default gallery application - load up product photos, slides, etc as images and then swipe through them. Add a bit more for product brochures and stuff and that's it.

5) Said gallery app is often useful to automatically run a slide show when placed on the booth, similar to digital photo frames.

Gates is probably looking for a reason to not justify releasing Office for iOS (and Android). I mean, his criticisms apply to every tablet as well, including Surface. That, and a touch screen demands a different user interaction than a keyboard/mouse, so UIs have to change to accommodate both. E.g., touchscreens, resistive or capacitive or inductive are imprecise (resistives can use styluses, but even then the point's inaccurate) making small targets hard to hit. A mouse is a lot more precise. A touchscreen doesn't have "right click", and likewise, Fitt's law doesn't apply to touchscreens. In fact, hitting edges and corners is harder on a touchscreen.

Re:Yes

[LordLimecat]

and the place is littered with iPads and other tablets. How odd it is that, whatever your advice might be, businesses are buying tablets and they are being seen out in the field.

Now try to come up with a business justification for it.

Theyre littered all over because businesses tend to throw a bone to their employees, and because iPads are hip enough that everyone wants one. Youre going to have a really hard time convincing me that a laptop wouldnt have been superior in every concievable metric, though, from manageability to compatibility to productivity to price.

Re:Yes

[ceoyoyo]

Clearly nobody in business ever needs to use reference materials.

No, wait, that's pretty much what everyone in a business does. It's more or less ALL management uses technology for!

Re:Yes

[EvanED]

...Fitt's law doesn't apply to touchscreens. In fact, hitting edges and corners is harder on a touchscreen.

What? Yes it does. Do you think Fitt's law was invented for mice? It predates mice. From Wikipedia: "Fitts's law is used to model the act of pointing, either by physically touching an object with a hand or finger, or virtually, by pointing to an object on a computer monitor using a pointing device"

You have a point about the corners, but not Fitt's law.

Re:Yes

[exomondo]

And yet you go to any business conference nowadays, and the place is littered with iPads and other tablets.

To do all the things that they would normally do on their smartphones just on a bigger screen.

Re:Yes

[Anonymous Coward]

Very few Upper Management types create much content. They order it to be created. They have personal assistants to type up just about anything, and underlings to create any content they need. A tablet is a perfect 'consumption' device for those types of folks. it's a perfect reference device and PIM.

Re:Yes

[MightyMartian]

I'm not trying to make any kind of a business justification. I'm telling what I'm seeing, and what's lots of other people will report to. The tablet is already in the enterprise. Clearly whoever has authorized the purchases of these devices has had a business case made. You can disagree with it, but you can't really argue that the decision hasn't been made.

Re:Yes

[hey!]

I dunno. Some years ago I had a successful business doing field data collection software on Windows CE, later Windows Mobile devices, and for the most part those devices were sold as semi-useless executive toys.

In an ideal world, form follows function; in the real world vendors create form factors and user try to figure out what the can use those form factors for. Many developers tried to shoehorn desktop style apps onto PDA with limited success, but it turned out that besides looking up phone numbers and appointments, the PDA form factor was ideally suited for the kind of app where your field workers hop out of a truck, note some exotic invasive plant, and record spraying it with Roundup. A laptop, or even a tablet is too bulky; you want something you can carry in your pocket. On the other hand, it was painful to type more than couple of words on a PDA using a stylus (things have got somewhat better with predictive text entry).

When you say "there aren't many places I'd recommend them [tablets] for business," you obviously have a set of applications in mind, and of course if they're typical desktop apps you wouldn't recommend tablets. Tablets are poor choices for content creation. The lack of keyboard means they're not very good for text-centric content creation, and the tradeoffs of performance, I/O capabilities, and storage needed to achieve good hand-holdability and battery life mean that other kinds of content creation aren't going to be their forte, either. What tablets are good for are the very task we saw them used for in Stanley Kubrick's 2001 or in Star Trek TNG: information retrieval, presentation and playback. There's plenty of business applications that fit that bill. Furthermore the middle ground tablets occupy between notebooks and PDA means that while they aren't pocketable like a PDA, they have potential data entry applications where the screen size of a PDA is an important limitation, on one hand, but the bulk of a notebook is inconvenient. For example apps where you retrieve and configure things and then hand around the result (e.g. high end point of sale).

Personally, I like the idea of a tablet with a detachable hardware keyboard. But keep in mind most product developers are unimaginative. They don't redesign their product to take advantage of a form factor, they simply bring their old apps up on the new form factor and expect magic to happen. It doesn't. You have conceive an app around a form factor's potential, and design the app around it's strengths and limitations.

Re:Yes

[Anonymous Coward]

Fitts's law is normally (as in every time I've hard it mentioned) used as a short way of saying that the corners are the easiest places on the screen to hit with a mouse, because if you move the mouse far enough in any direction, it will end up in a corner.

Which is not only not true for touch devices, but also for digitizers (hitting the corner can be pretty hard, because the pen goes out of range in one direction before hitting the edge in the other direction unless you hit it very precisely, multiple desktops (the mouse will continue on the other screen) and non-fullscreen view of another screen (remote desktop, vmware console).

But reading the wikipedia article, I can see you're right. There is a lot more to it than that (if the corner thing is even a part of fitts's law.

Re:Yes

[Rich0]

Clearly whoever has authorized the purchases of these devices has had a business case made.

Uh, sure. The business case is that they have a $50M annual budget, and an iPad costs $600, so I'll go ahead and buy one. At my workplace at least they've tended to proliferate first at the senior levels of management, and I doubt that senior executives spend time typing up business cases before they go spend $1000 on something. Business cases are things that people making $75k/yr need in order to buy some tool completely essential for their work, not for executives whose job it is to read business cases and decide if they should make the person writing it jump through more hoops.

But, I'll tend to agree that a tablet makes more sense for the people who tend to go to conferences. They tend to be managers, and that means that for the most part they are data consumers, not data producers. At my work the typical manager reads 300 word emails and replies with 10 word emails, they read 14-page slide decks and reply with one sentence comments, they read 14-page business cases and reply with go ahead, or more often just don't reply. They're given 75-page documents to review, and then they hit the approve button. The type of work they do lends itself to tablets fairly well.

On the other hand, the people who create all that stuff that the managers read are almost certainly doing that work on typical PCs.

I think the issue is that managers are decision-makers and they assume that because a tablet makes sense for them that it will make sense for everybody. That isn't necessarily true.

Re:Yes

[dzfoo]

You mean, the things they used to do on a smartphone that they previously used to do on a Laptop? Do you see how this is going?

Re:Yes

[EvanED]

if the corner thing is even a part of fitts's law.

It sort of is. The way I would describe Fitt's law very informally is "bigger stuff (and closer stuff) is easier to hit." At that level it's pretty obvious, but it's nice to have a name for even obvious things. Corners and edges come into play because in some sense they are infinitely large: if you're at the corner of the screen with the mouse and keep moving, you'll still be at the corner of the screen. Infinitely large stuff are big, so are easier to hit.

I'll agree that you'll often see "because of Fitt's law" as an abbreviation to the above, however.

Re:Yes

[exomondo]

You mean, the things they used to do on a smartphone that they previously used to do on a Laptop?

No, because businesses didn't dump laptops in favor of smartphones.

Do you see how this is going?

how this is going? I don't know what you mean.

Re:Yes

[dzfoo]

Well, you can't switch arguments mid-way.

All those people that you claimed replaced their smartphones with tablets when they go to conferences, used to bring laptops before smartphones. Weren't you paying attention?

So it went from paper pads, to tablets, to smartphones, to tablets.

That means that at least some businesses did dump laptops in favor of smartphones for at least some functions.

I know you are trying to be all smarty-pants with your straw-man argument pointing out how tablets are not going to replace laptops completely, in every facet of business--but nobody is claiming that.

What some of us are saying is that, there are some functions for which laptops and desktop computers used to be regarded as the most appropriate tool, and now tablets are taking their place.

Not only that, but tablets are being put to some uses by businesses to which laptops or smartphones weren't even considered.

          -dZ.

Re:Yes

[exomondo]

Well, you can't switch arguments mid-way.

I'm not, people didn't dump laptops in favor of smartphones, they use them both, just go to any conference and you'll see most people take laptops in addition to whatever smartphone or tablet they use.

All those people that you claimed replaced their smartphones with tablets when they go to conferences, used to bring laptops before smartphones. Weren't you paying attention?

I didn't claim anybody replaced their smartphones with tablets, maybe you need to actually read before you so hastily hit that reply button. Why would you replace a smartphone with a tablet? Who carries a tablet instead of a smartphone?

That means that at least some businesses did dump laptops in favor of smartphones for at least some functions.

They didn't dump laptops, they added smartphones for functions where that was more convenient.

I know you are trying to be all smarty-pants with your straw-man argument pointing out how tablets are not going to replace laptops completely, in every facet of business--but nobody is claiming that.

There is no strawman argument here, so obviously you're either not reading or you don't know what a strawman is. I didn't point out that tablets are not going to replace laptops completely (so i'm assuming that it's that you're not reading), in fact i doubt anybody would need to point that out.

What some of us are saying is that, there are some functions for which laptops and desktop computers used to be regarded as the most appropriate tool, and now tablets are taking their place.

Thanks captain obvious, you do really have a reading comprehension problem because i never refuted that, feel free to point out where you think I did though (hint, you won't find it because it isn't there).

Uhh

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why we gave iOS/OSX users Pages... dumbass.

Personally

[themaddone]

It's true.

--Sent from my iPad

Re:Personally

[Anonymous Coward]

It's false.

--Sent from my iPad

Not from what I've seen

[LordKronos]

I hate apple products as much as the next guy, but I'm not sure I can agree with this. I see my coworkers typing on their ipads all the time with a dock-like keyboard that attaches to act like a cover when not in use (not sure what it's called or if it's an official apple product or 3rd party).

Re:Not from what I've seen

[LordKronos]

OK, did a quick look, and this is what I think they use:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/HA500VC/A/logitech-ultrathin-keyboard-cover-for-ipad?fnode=3e

Re:Not from what I've seen

[ArchieBunker]

I'll never understand that. You basically bought two cheap laptops for the price of a single iPad and keyboard dock.

Re:Not from what I've seen

[berj]

It shouldn't be that hard to understand.

With the ipad and keyboard dock I can use the iPad *without* the keyboard if I want to. I'm guessing neither of the cheap laptops I could have bought would work very well without the keyboard attached.

Re:Not from what I've seen

[gstrickler]

I'll never understand that. You basically bought two cheap laptops ....

Do that, and what you have are two cheap laptops that are slow, don't work right, and and are 2-5x the size and 3x-10x what an iPad/iPad Mini weighs. If you need a laptop, by all means buy a laptop. But if what you need is a tablet, buy a tablet.

Re:Not from what I've seen

[fermion]

Here is the thing. The iPad is ok for writing. If I were in college, the iPad would be ok for much of what i did. A bluetooth keyboard can let me do many things. Even code the way I did in college.

But when MS talks about content creation, they are talking about combining content and presentation, something that MS Office does to excess. And in that the iPad is not so good. For instance, I would never try to make a Keynote presentation on it.

That said, in the same way that the Mac transformed how people created and consumed content, the iPad is doing the same. MS spent quite a bit of time avoiding the WIMP interface. It was at least 1990 before they fully embraced in and delivered a product that was just not a window/menu/pointer tacked on top of a command line, and before MS Office really delivered a solid product(outside of excel, which was tops from day one). They of course are going to do the same now. Admittedly with Metro they are much more gung ho that they were with MS Windows, and the Kin interface is certainly innovative. The question is can they do something different that is not just accepted because everyone needs MS Office.

Re:Not from what I've seen

[Anonymous Coward]

Then you just "don't get it" and therefore shouldn't voice your opinion on the matter /trollface

Thats fundamentally the problem with the tablet market right now. Whenever anyone tries to stray from the iPhone/iPad model, everyone blasts it as "unnecessary", "expensive" or "people might as well get a laptop".

I'm not saying that Bill Gates is right, but its the same argument people had against the iPad when Steve Jobs first announced it. It was "unnecessary", "expensive" and "people might as well get a laptop." Hell, go look at people were saying when the iPad Mini came out.

Re:Not from what I've seen

[LordLimecat]

Do that, and what you have are two cheap laptops that are slow

I really dont think you want to stack an iPad's specs up against a $400 laptop. Maybe you do, but it wont be pretty. Just so you know, $400 is "core i3" range, which will slaughter just about any ARM proc on the market.

don't work right

I suppose that heavily depends on what you're doing to the laptop or iPad. The laptop is going to have a far far easier time hooking up to printers, email systems, and various peripherals than the iPad is, though, and its a LOT easier to get remote support on.

size

If youre trying to type, generally you dont want some uber small device, unless you really like hand cramps and impaired productivity.

Re:Not from what I've seen

[gstrickler]

I really dont think you want to stack an iPad's specs up against a $400 laptop. Maybe you do, but it wont be pretty. Just so you know, $400 is "core i3" range, which will slaughter just about any ARM proc on the market.

But you're not comparing to a $400 laptop. iPad Mini = $329 + Apple Wireless Keyboard $69, = $398. iPad 2 = $399 + $69 (AWK) = $468. So, you're comparing to a $200-$235 laptop. Which is going to be both underpowered, and cheap quality. So, I'll stick with my original statement.

Re:Not from what I've seen

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it's actually a Bluetooth keyboard. My kids have been doing homework on their iPads for over a year (not my choice, but I went along with it), they don't seem to be having problems typing or creating documents, even before they got the keyboards.

I might have a problem, but I've been using full size keyboards for (mumble) decades, everything from a manual typewriter, teletype, and keypunch to computer keyboards, and my fingers expect certain spacing and feedback. (They (my fingers) also think the Microsoft "ergonomic" keyboard sucks donkey dick.)

Re:Not from what I've seen

[BeerCat]

Then you just "don't get it" and therefore shouldn't voice your opinion on the matter /trollface

  its the same argument people had against the iPad when Steve Jobs first announced it. It was "unnecessary", "expensive" and "people might as well get a laptop." Hell, go look at people were saying when the iPad Mini came out.

It reminds so much of what people said when Windows 3.0 came out (since they had already dismissed the Mac as "a toy"):

"A GUI is unnecessary and expensive. People might as well stick with the command line"

(And I'm sure the same was said a few years before, when the PC came out: "A PC is unnecessary and expensive. People might as well stick with their terminal hooked up to the minicomputer")

Re:Not from what I've seen

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone who compares a tablet to a laptop doesn't know how to use either. I have a laptop, a netbook, and a tablet. I use all three for very different things.

Re:Not from what I've seen

[Macgrrl]

90+% of the time I use my Apple Smart Cover on my iPad because it doesn't noticeably increase the size/weight of the iPad while protecting the screen from scratches. When traveling or if I know I am going to need to do extended typing.editing I would use the Logitech Ultrathin, it's about 2-3 times the weight/size of the smart cover, but is also magnetic - so changing covers is a breeze, and it gives me an almost full size keyboard with arrow keys for navigating documents more accurately.

Re:Not from what I've seen

[oogoliegoogolie]

I hate apple products as much as the next guy...

Hey! I'm the next guy and I happen to like Apple products. You're looking for the previous guy. He's the one who detests everything Apple.

Re:Not from what I've seen

[ikaruga]

Well at least your coworkers use a keyboard. I see my co-workers typing all the time on their ipads WITHOUT a freaking keyboard! And they aren't even standing up(I have to say tablets a quite useful in this situation) and their PCs are just a few inches away from them. Well I'm quite guilty myself as well but at least I use a Transformer Pad (an old TF101) with it's complimentary keyboard.

I agree with Bill Gates on this one, but logic doesn't apply on the mainstream market. Unless MS has a marketing strategy that reconvinces the mainstream crowd that keyboards are "cool" they'll lose the battle to iPads and even Android Tablets. I agree that tablets are great, maybe even better than standard PCs, for the average Joe and grandmother's media consumption/internet browsing but for the workplace, even if you just wrte word documents all the day long, a classic PC is better. What pisses me off is that tablet users still prefer an iPad to work with. I can't comprehend how people can work without a file browser with integrated packaging capabilities and the lack of true multitasking. Use at least a Nexus 10 or a Transformer Pad or a Surface Pro.

Re:Not from what I've seen

[narcc]

I paid $230 for an Acer Aspire One 722 last December to replace my wife's work computer. Feel free to compare specs, though you won't like what you see.

A quick search turns up quite a few notebooks in the $200-$235 range that'll make the parents point nicely.

Let's be honest. The iPad route gives you an under-spec'd and over-priced setup that lacks many useful and important features. For half the price of even your suggested bottom-of-the-barrel iPad setup you can get a much more powerful laptop of good quality.

Why are we even playing this game?

Re:Not from what I've seen

[gstrickler]

Well, since you insist...Acer Aspire 722:

• price: $379, not $230.
• weight: 3lbs, 2x as heavy as the iPad, 4x the weight of the iPad Mini.
• Keyboard: crappy, but don't take my word for it, from the above review... "We've always had mixed feelings about Acer's FineTip keyboards, and this one did not impress. The keys lacked good tactile feedback and springiness, and the keyboard flexed noticeably when we typed. This caused us to make more errors than we usually do. We never got comfortable with the layout,..."
• Display: Crappy. again, from the review... "1366 x 768 resolution display has a glossy finish, though it wasn't too reflective under fluorescent lights. Colors are slightly muted, which is unusual for a glossy screen, and even at 100 percent brightness the panel seems slightly dim. Horizontal viewing angles aren't super wide, but three people sitting together should be able to see the screen without encountering color distortion or darkness. While watching an episode of Murder, She Wrote on Netflix, we found that pushing the display past about 25 degrees (when looking at it head-on) made colors look darker and in shadow, so there isn't a wide vertical range, either."
• Sound: Again, from the review..."The two small speakers under the Aspire One 722's front lip don't produce very loud volume - we had to turn the notebook up to 100 percent to get decent audio when playing some Adam Lambert tracks."
• Camera: 0.3MP (std VGA). From the review..."Colors were more washed out than we like,..."

Re:Not from what I've seen

[narcc]

So, I apparently paid more for it that I did? Fine, do a google search. There are plenty of others that fit the bill just as well :)

Keyboard seems to work fine. My wife seems to think it's better than her old laptop keyboard. Again, it completely destroys the BT keyboard in question.

Display looks okay to me. It's better than the iPad 2 / iPad mini display to which you're making your comparison, which is all that matters here.

Speakers? Not the best, but kick the crap out of the iPad. Then again, so does my PlayBook and Z10. It's not hard to best the iPad there.

Memory, drive space, CPU, all well ahead of the iPad. No big surprise.

Front Camera? Well, you got me there! 0.3 -- Just like the iPad 2!

To the parents point: You can get two computers with better specs for the price of an iPad +keyboard. You can do a helluva lot more with them.as well. If you think those computers are "crappy" then you must not think too much of the iPad!

On specs, there isn't any room for interpretation. The parent is objectively correct Why are you arguing this?

Re:Not from what I've seen

[Ash-Fox]

Here is the thing. The iPad is ok for writing.

How do I write with my iPad? I can't figure it out.

Re:Not from what I've seen

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, find me a laptop that competes on the following specs:

308g.
Fits in my coat pocket.

Re:Not from what I've seen

[LordLimecat]

er, youre saying that the iPad mini is $398 with the keyboard. WHY am i not comparing it to a $380 laptop again?

If I have to stick in the $200 range, Im gonna get a chromebook, which has about the same functionality as an iPad, and a lot more oomph. Its also cheaper, has a bigger screen, and a far superior keyboard.

iPads have their place, but dont try to claim that theyre faster / cheaper than a laptop.

Re:Not from what I've seen

[LordLimecat]

I will note that the iPad's keyboard also lacks springiness and tactile feedback.

Re:Not from what I've seen

[gstrickler]

er, youre saying that the iPad mini is $398 with the keyboard. WHY am i not comparing it to a $380 laptop again?

er, because that's not what the commenter I replied to stated. He compared it to the price of TWO cheap laptops. You should try reading what you're responding to.

If I have to stick in the $200 range, Im gonna get a chromebook, which has about the same functionality as an iPad, and a lot more oomph. Its also cheaper, has a bigger screen, and a far superior keyboard.

It's also significantly larger and heavier, has shorter battery life, and doesn't run nearly as many apps. As I said, if you want/need a laptop, buy a laptop.

iPads have their place, but dont try to claim that theyre faster / cheaper than a laptop.

Comprehension fail. I made no such claim.

Microsoft is fustrated tooo.

[davydagger]

Microsoft is fustrated that still, no one gives a shit about windows 8, and no one wants windows rt, and they were all DOA.

As much as I despise apple products, no cult-of-crapple iPad users would ever think twice about anything else, and if they did, it would more likely be android.

Re:Microsoft is fustrated tooo.

[styrotech]

Microsoft is fustrated that still, no one gives a shit about windows 8, and no one wants windows rt, and they were all DOA.

As much as I despise apple products, no cult-of-crapple iPad users would ever think twice about anything else, and if they did, it would more likely be android.

MS rose to riches in the 90s on selling massive numbers of Office suites when they (and desktop PCs) really were a big productivity improvement.

They put huge efforts into (mostly) successfully keeping standalone document/spreadsheet files relevant during the increasingly networked and web oriented 2000s. Smaller geekier companies (like ours) moved to things like wikis other webapps etc, but that didn't put much of a dent in the Office suite market.

Now in the 2010s a bunch of smaller factors like mobility, device independence / cloud storage, "coolness", apps, always on networking, an increasingly powerful web, collaboration, the growth of other platforms etc have combined to really start eroding the actual value/point of a file based Office suite outside the world of the legacy enterprise desktop.

I think MS has hung onto Office technology being the only real basis of any of their collaboration/content based solutions for far too long. Their fear of huting the massive Office profits has left them vulnerable/blind to being left behind. They realise this now and are getting a bit desperate.

Re:Microsoft is fustrated tooo.

[sandytaru]

While I agree about RT (stupid decision), the lack of adoption with Windows 8 has more to do with the lack of adoption by business app vendors. In fact, they're panicking about Win 8, because the morons never even got their crap running right on Windows 7. We have three XP systems with $3,000 software dongles on them that are still running XP because the vendor never made a Win 7 client.

Re:Microsoft is fustrated tooo.

[davydagger]

Microsoft clings to what they have because they can't ever make a product people like or want.

They make products people are "used to", as they were the only game in town after fierce elimination of rivals in the 1990s, and became synonymous with "computer". Their products were crappy, but in the 1990s, thats all people knew.

Lets also face it

1. Mac OS classic was a joke OS, and NO it was NOT reliable.

2. Sun, DEC, HP, all made wonderful UNIX boxen. Far too expensive and esoteric for consumer use.

3. Linux was still in a very primative state, and the Open Source BSDs reigned the Free operating system world. None of them however, were real competitors to windows on the desktop. (that said, linux was ALWAYS 32 bit, multi-user, long filenames, and always fairly stable.)

Microsoft is doing what they've always done, made a monopoly and defended it from innovators making it obsolete, edison style.

Apple is doing what they've always done. Sell a product to a neurotic audience more intrested in shares of comunal bonds than a functioning product. The rich, the media people, with empty souls looking for something to fill it with.

Re:Microsoft is fustrated tooo.

[terjeber]

Just FYI, Win8 now is on track to having about the same adoption rate as Windows XP did, probably a little higher, and we all know what happened to that flop.

Re:Microsoft is fustrated tooo.

[Anonymous Coward]

MS rose to riches in the 90s on selling massive numbers of Office suites when they (and desktop PCs) really were a big productivity improvement.

No. MS rose to riches by NOT innovating and providing stability and backward software compatibility for the business and government markets. They locked these markets in by providing them what they needed to keep legacy systems online and by providing easy APIs to further Frankenstein these systems with add ons and middleware. They have now gone completely off the rails and will probably revert to old practices soon or their shareholders will dump stock and legacy clients will ditch them for Linux, if they already haven't.

Re:Microsoft is fustrated tooo.

[MrNiceguy_KS]

Microsoft is fustrated that still, no one gives a shit about windows 8,

Not quite true. Your statement implies ambivalence, and by suggesting that everyone is ambivalent about Windows 8, you are ignoring the substantial number of people that deeply loathe it.

valid.

[Anonymous Coward]

i feel that he makes a valid point...there's a great deal of functionality lost when i don't have a mouse or keyboard attached to my tablet. i like to have a notepad nearby for roughing things out, too. and my printer is broken, so i use a typewriter for contracts/deeds/other arcane legal documents which i often feed into my facsimile machine.

Next...

[Anonymous Coward]

"iPad users are frustrated that they can't type on them, or create documents with them, or wear them on their wrists, or on their glasses. With Windows 8, we're trying to provide all of these benefits on one device. Why buy separate devices to do all these different things when you could just have one."

Notes - Tap the + - Start typing

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm guessing he's never seen an iPad.

but without giving up what they expect in a PC.

[Anonymous Coward]

Like a start menu. oh wait.

so....

[waddgodd]

Since ipad users are missing Office, we can expect to see a return of Office for Mac(now iOS)?

Re:so....

[gstrickler]

MS office never left the Mac.

Re:so....

[Anonymous Coward]

MS office never left the Mac alone.

Keyboard is nice, but ...

[ZeroPly]

... generally I don't lug it around.

I evaluated the Surface Pro last month. We got a keyboard with it which I put in my office cabinet. It's still sitting there. I have a choice at work of what tablet I want to use, since I'm the product evaluator for that category. Right now I have an iPad, several different Androids, the RT (yuk), and this Surface Pro.

The keyboard just isn't that big a deal to me. The one that comes with it is nice in that it magnetically latches, but in terms of actual typing it's slower than a $7 generic one from Micro Center.

The reason I carry the Surface Pro is because my Windows software will run on it. Plus, it's got a USB port. If I care that much I'll just steal a full keyboard off someone's desk and plug it into the tablet. I'm in a corporate environment, it's not like USB keyboards are hard to come by. Crap, I keep one in my car...

Re:Keyboard is nice, but ...

[Anonymous Coward]

I sleep in my car. A USB keyboard would just get in the way.

Re:Keyboard is nice, but ...

[spxero]

I'm in just about the same boat as you, being product evaluator for the company. What's funny is that the iPad has actually made it easier for our field guys to do their work. The most they do is key in a few numbers, print and/or scan a few pages, take photos, and possibly map shapes via GPS. Doing this kind of work on a laptop is doable, but tedious. The iPad has made a one-stop device that is portable, easy to use, and has a shallow learning curve.

The Surface RT on the other hand doesn't play well with the scanners we have, doesn't have 10m GPS support, and in general is hard to use fully without the "keyboard" it came with. It's the 2013 equivalent of a netbook, with less compatibility. Battery life was great, but I think that was due more to non-use than use. It's been on my desk since we could get one and no one has taken it for more than a weekend. The only question I have after each evaluation is "did you like using it?" to which the response has been a resounding "it's kinda cool, but I don't see it replacing my android/iPad".

Anyone who is using an iPad for full-fledged document, spreadsheet, or powerpoint creation is either unprepared or extremely advanced. No, it's not a great device for creation. But it's a great device for quick edits, consumption, and presentation.

As for the androids, it'd be nice for the manufacturers to standardize things like keyboards. Half the time I have to google image search the keyboard layout because it isn't exactly the same as the device we have.

Microsoft is late to the game and trying to use their last bargaining chip- the Office Suite. The problem is that many iOS and Android apps exist for that already and do everything else better. Too little, too late.

Re:Keyboard is nice, but ...

[MrNiceguy_KS]

OT, but I love your sig. It does, however, hold frightening implications for those working in the data recovery field.

As if he uses it...

[justcauseisjustthat]

Please use the device before actually criticizing it. Reminds me of so many C-levels and VPs, they don't have a clue about what's going on, but they claim they do!!

Tablets are for consumption, not production

[Dracos]

What OS is installed doesn't change that. Surface users are frustrated that there are no apps for their devices.

Touch UIs suck, and the proof is all over the internet. Every time someone posts something like "I would [something], but I'm on my [phone|tablet|mobile]" it is a damning statement on how limited touch is compared to keyboard+mouse. Even common desktop tasks are a chore in touch.

I realized recently that maybe part of the reason why Apple resisted putting cut and paste into iOS for so long was because they couldn't figure out how to make it not suck. That's something Jobs would have obsessed over.

Re:Tablets are for consumption, not production

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet for every post you see that says I do it later on my desktop, you're probably missing 20 that are typing it on a tablet or phone.

Re:Tablets are for consumption, not production

[AK Marc]

So your argument is that a tablet with mouse and keyboard is not a tablet? How is a tablet with a keyboard, mouse, and external monitor different from a PC with the same?

Re:Tablets are for consumption, not production

[Rich0]

So your argument is that a tablet with mouse and keyboard is not a tablet? How is a tablet with a keyboard, mouse, and external monitor different from a PC with the same?

For starters you're using a mouse and keyboard with a UI designed for a touchscreen. That means that you're moving the mouse a lot more - a touchscreen UI will have big buttons spread out so that they're easy to hit with a finger. Your mouse can hit a target only a few pixels wide, so you're wasting real-estate. Web browsers have been steadily losing the toolbar over the last few years because most don't need it. Now imagine the toolbar is back and it takes up half your screen. Or you have a menu button, which pops up a big scrolling menu - who loves scrolling menus with a mouse, especially when only 6 menu items fit on a screen and they literally obscure the entire screen while they're at it?

Of course, MS doesn't get it either - they're moving to exactly this model on their desktop version of win8. I've got nothing against tablet OSes. I've used WinXP on pen tablets and it is a lot less convenient than a touchscreen with something like Android or iOS unless you're sitting down leaning over it.

Also, consider feature-completeness. Look at how many options your typical Android/iOS photo editor has, and the feature list for Photoshop. Could you imagine a tablet OS app with all the tools/menu-options in Photoshop? You'd have to scroll through 14 layers of screens to find anything. A windows/OSX application with 100 menu entries and a toolbar with 50 10x10 pixel toolbar icons isn't a big deal - imagine that on a tablet. Part of why the tablet UI works is because it tends to be used with minimal apps. The minimal apps work because 70% of the time that's all you need, and when you need more you just don't use the tablet. When you want to use that tablet UI for everything, it breaks down.

Re:Tablets are for consumption, not production

[Anonymous Coward]

"I would [something], but I'm on my [phone|tablet|mobile]"

You do realize most of the time this means I'm out and about/standing in a queue/not actually sitting in a place I can stop and do work, right? You try digging up a document buried in your e-mail and pulling out a part for reference, while you wait for the crosswalk sign to tell you to go. It's not a limitation due to OS, but time/mobility.

Can't you plug a keyboard into an iPad usb port?

[Anonymous Coward]

If not, it is a design flaw

"they can't type, they can't create documents"

[PolygamousRanchKid]

. . . a lot of folks I see using computers can't do that with a keyboard either . . .

Re:"they can't type, they can't create documents"

[stanjo74]

This was modded funny, but is actually insightful. Not many people are producing content (documents, drawings, etc). Everyone is consuming content - video streaming, web browsing, casual gaming, social media + some basic typing/input . Apple bet on the latter group and created a product that does this very well - zero administration, no viruses, safe applications.

People who need to create content already used specialized software and/or machines (aka PC, workstation, server, etc). They are not buying a tablet to replace that.

Re:"they can't type, they can't create documents"

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi! My name is "Average User". I am between 40 and 70 years old. Typing is very confusing, and, although much of my job depends on typing, I have never studied it or become meaningfully better. My job in the XYZ department of MegaCorperation is very demanding, and I am tired when I come home. All I really want is to get some McDonalds, have a beer/wine, and indulge my senses. I usually watch TV, but sometimes I check my E-mail, watch YouTube, or read cracked.com. I'm too lazy to boot up a computer, and who can figure out what type to buy anyways? Those things are so confusing!

I prefer Apple products, because typing and thinking are hard. It doesn't give me any options more confusing than "are you going to use the internet?" and "how bright do you want the screen?", and I usually just leave those on constantly. I just work in the XYZ department, and I am unable to edit images, make videos, program/administer/configure computers, coordinate large projects, or make documents larger than 5 pages.

Re:"they can't type, they can't create documents"

[meta-monkey]

Well, that's not a bad bet. Everybody consumes more content than they produce. I read more books than I write, and watch more movies than I direct.

Re:"they can't type, they can't create documents"

[Anonymous Coward]

. . . a lot of folks have trouble with basic punctuation . . .

Re:"they can't type, they can't create documents"

[afgam28]

Not sure about that. I spend about 8 hours a day producing content at work, and fewer than 8 hours a day consuming content in my free time.

Re:"they can't type, they can't create documents"

[Rich0]

Not sure about that. I spend about 8 hours a day producing content at work, and fewer than 8 hours a day consuming content in my free time.

I have to agree. Granted, much of that workplace "content" isn't always created using PCs. How many people do their work using cash registers? Could a tablet replace a cash register and omni-directional scanner? Absolutely - you could write a "Walmart Register" app for Android and it could do anything a Walmart cash register could do, and be portable as well. However, back in high school I worked retail and I could probably ring up 40 items in a minute with the scanner, or if I had to hand-type prices I could probably ring up maybe 10 per minute (including fumbling around looking for price tags). Good luck doing that with a tablet. A place like Walmart completely optimizes the entire design of their checkout station and buys expensive equipment specialized for the task that is being done at VERY large scales.

Even somebody like a receptionist is often using fairly specialized software, printers, document scanners, and so on. They likely couldn't be as effective using a tablet and a bluetooth keyboard.

We Already Tried This.

[Anonymous Coward]

While Apple views the tablet and PC markets as two separate entities, Microsoft takes the opposing view.

They were called netbooks, and they died a quick death.

Re:We Already Tried This.

[couchslug]

Netbooks didn't "die" on their own.

They were designed with crippling "birth defects" (weak CPU, limited RAM) so as not to eat notebook market share. It worked and after the initial surge, sales dropped off.

Many people still like them, but when I can get a used Thinkpad X2whatever for cheap it makes no sense for me to buy one.

Re:We Already Tried This.

[mjwx]

Netbooks didn't "die" on their own.

They were designed with crippling "birth defects" (weak CPU, limited RAM) so as not to eat notebook market share. It worked and after the initial surge, sales dropped off.

Many people still like them, but when I can get a used Thinkpad X2whatever for cheap it makes no sense for me to buy one.

They didn't have birth defects, they were strangled in their infancy by Microsoft.

MS made it a requirement that netbooks had to have weak CPU's and RAM limited as not to eat the notebook market share because MS charged more per license for a $500 notebook than they did for a $300 netbook.

But this did not last as we now have 11" "ultrabooks" which are basically netbooks without the weak CPU and RAM limits (and price tag).

Re:We Already Tried This.

[chooks]

MS made it a requirement that netbooks had to have weak CPU's and RAM limited as not to eat the notebook market share

I thought the CPU choice was more of a battery life thing -- the Atom processors (N500/N550) had much better power consumption profile (at the expense of processing) than a normal x86/AMD processor. The battery life on my ASUS netbook was around 8 to 10 hours, which was great. Having used a netbook for a couple of years it seems like the real hardware compromise was the video, which really slowed things down.

Still, the portability of the netbook was great and worked well for lightweight development (e.g. VIM as opposed to eclipse/VS) at a price a student could afford.

I agree, in princple

[tatman]

I have an android tablet, not a ipad. I feel my experience is similar. Yes I can create documents. However, it is difficult enough that usually end up shutting off my tablet and get out the laptop (yeah yeah I have old hardware).

The software to create and edit documents on the tablet just isn't mature enough to do the things I am used to. Web based editors act weird. Apps miss a feature I want or whatever.

So, from that perspective, I think Bill is more right than wrong.

Re:I agree, in princple

[rudy_wayne]

The software to create and edit documents on the tablet just isn't mature enough to do the things I am used to. Web based editors act weird. Apps miss a feature I want or whatever.

You're right, but you're missing the point. What really makes using a PC so much better than a tablet for creating documents (or other real work that people have to do) is not the software, its the hardware: a nice big monitor, a real keyboard and a real mouse.

Tablets will never have that and so will always remain inferior for certain things.

Yep.

[painandgreed]

So frustrated, that I have never bothered to even take the bluetooth keyboard I bought along with my iPad out of the box in the past two years.

Re:Yep.

[H0p313ss]

So frustrated, that I have never bothered to even take the bluetooth keyboard I bought along with my iPad out of the box in the past two years.

I got the bluetooth keyboard from Apple when i got my iPad three years ago, it worked but it just turned out to be impractical.

The Logitech Ultrathin however is a whole different story. Convenient and practical and effective.

I still wouldn't use it to write a novel, but for email it's been fantastic.

Re:Yep.

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't need a keyboard to watch gay porn, you faggat.

Re:Can't you plug a keyboard into an iPad usb port

[gl4ss]

If not, it is a design flaw

kb's can work through bluetooth.

but why do you think ipads would have regular usb host, when they can instead ask money from hardware developers?

I don't get Microsoft's strategy here

[dingen]

So according to Bill it boils down to MS Office (because you can simply get a keyboard for an iPad, just as you can for a Surface tablet).

The thing is however:

a) there's no native Office for Surface either (Office 2013 has no Metro-interface and isn't particularly suited for touch screens, even in touch-mode)
b) they are woking on a version of Office for iOS and Android
c) you can use Office 365 on whatever device that has a browser, which includes Surface, but also the iPad and all of the Android devices out there

How does that make the Surface any more attractive than the competition?

So start selling Office on the iPad

[theurge14]

Microsoft is a software company, right?

Re:So start selling Office on the iPad

[Anonymous Coward]

Or better yet, they could sell Windows RT for the iPad!

Re:So start selling Office on the iPad

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't really make any nice software for iPAd as long as apple doesn't let users to transfer files freely to the device. Never going to buy iOS devices again. There is no reason i shouldn't be able to just copu mmp3s and other files directly to the devises. I have 5 different computer with different operating systems, there is no way i'm going to install itunes or some special software on all of them just for transferring files to my portable devices.

If they want to be asses about it i'll let them, but they will have to do without my money.

Re:So start selling Office on the iPad

[Rich0]

Microsoft is a software company, right?

Agree on your point, but I think making Office work on any tablet is a much bigger challenge than most appreciate. The UI will be the biggest problem.

A SIMPLIFIED office suite would be quite doable, as already demonstrated by Google Docs. However, compare the menu options available in Google Docs vs MS Office sometime. Oh, and don't forget to dive into VBA and look at all the stuff there as well. Making all of that stuff work with a Tablet UI is going to be a real challenge.

By all means argue that typical users don't need all of that stuff, but that's just arguing that they don't need Office in the first place. I'd agree for casual consumers, but in a business setting a LOT of people use those features. Granted, even of Office some of the fancier features can be quite difficult to work with (just try using outline numbering in a document that multiple people have edited over time - Office really needs a "Reveal Codes" option like WordPerfect had).

Re:So start selling Office on the iPad

[Anonymous Coward]

If Office were such a killer app, Surface would be selling like hotcakes. They're not.

Most people consume content on their tablets. Productivity is done on PCs and laptops.

Microsoft can take its Office and shove it up its Metro where the Bing don't shine.
Forget about piggybacking on Apple's ecosystem.

Lacks keyboard..

[GrBear]

Users are frustrated because it lacks a keyboard? You mean just like Surface? Oh, but you can buy one as an add-on you say? You mean just like Surface?

Wow.. I'm not sure who I'm more afraid of now.. Ballmer or Gates, both seem pretty out of touch with reality.

iPad + Logitech Ultrathin Keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

The Surface Pro keyboards suck. If you like a tablet with a keyboard, get the iPad with the Logitech Ultrathin iPad Keyboard.

Re: iPad + Logitech Ultrathin Keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

this!

Yes, finally the truth, thanks Bill

[s1d3track3D]

Once again you have your finger on the pulse of what we want and need!
I still cant figure out why you let my two favorite Microsoft features go, Bob and Clippy, please bring them back!

Re: Yes, finally the truth, thanks Bill

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot Win ME and Vista. It appears that alternating releases of Windows now follow the good/crap/good/crap pattern.

Eagerly awaiting Windows 9.

I know everyone is going to hate on Bill but...

[Loco3KGT]

I 100% agree with him. I can't type /at all/ on my iPad 2. Because I'm not the disciplined type that raises their fingers 100% before hitting the next key I find the iPad trippng up a lot. It also doesn't keep up when I'm typing quickly and I'm not patient enough to slow down to wait for it. I've even tried two third party keyboards and wasn't impressed with them (1 because it was small and travel sized, the other is that new fangled overlay .. I can't remember the name but I was a part of the kickstarter). Anyway, when it comes to typing anything of substance I always put down the iPad and go to my desktop computer.

In the end my iPad 2 has become the samething my X-Box has become, a bad, over-priced Netflix player.

Re:I know everyone is going to hate on Bill but...

[ducomputergeek]

You bough the wrong device. I bought, 2 actually, apple docking stations for my iPad. One for the office, one for home. They are full sized keyboards with a charging port, hold the device in portrait mode as well. Works extremely well for writing emails and even creating basic documents in Pages/Numbers/Keynote. If I need to create something that is media heavy, I go to my laptop. I also have one of those iPad cases with the mini keyboard. It sucks to type anything long, but in a pinch it is handy.

Truth is most of my days are meetings. My iPad works extremely well for those as I can plug into projectors to give a presentation or jot notes with the travel keyboard and the battery lasts pretty much all day. It's also a hell of a lot lighter to carry around than a 15" MBP.

Now there are days I still have to review code and do other kinds of work that doesn't work on the iPad. But those are fewer in between.

Re:I know everyone is going to hate on Bill but...

[tilante]

So... you agree that no one can use an iPad for document creation, because it doesn't work for you?

Way to over-generalize. For me, I bought an Apple Wireless Keyboard (http://www.apple.com/keyboard/) to use with mine. Since my home computer is an Imac, it's quite literally the exact same keyboard I use on my desktop. It's a bit longer than the iPad, but it's light and tough - I've dropped it in parking lots several times, and never had a problem from it.

I use it for emails, and for writing stories, using an editor that saves RTF and can use Google Drive or Dropbox (and some others as well, but those are the two I use with it). There are also ones that will save Word format.

Basically, Bill's complaint boils down to "Nobody should be using an iPad for document creation, because we haven't created a version of Word for it yet!"

Some folks create just fine on an iPad

[Anonymous Coward]

Gates obviously hasn't seen my 13-year old daughter typing on it - She types as fast using the on-screen keyboard as she was on a laptop keyboard. I don't know how many wpm, but about as fast as I am, who's been typing for 30 years. As for me, I can't type worth a damn on it, but I haven't practiced much either. For document generation she does fine with Pages or note apps. We haven't gotten a spreadsheet program yet, though. Any suggestions?

Of course, Gates has only his own company to blame for the lack of MSOffice on the iPad.

SB

Re:Some folks create just fine on an iPad

[Macgrrl]

I would assume that Numbers would be available on the iPad and it would be as good as any other spreadsheet package on a touch UI.

I recently acquired on of the much lauded in this thread Logitech Ultra-thin cover/keyboards for my iPad - if you want your daughter to work with spreadsheets, this may be a good option because it gives you arrow keys, something missing form the on-screen keyboard, which makes navigating spreadsheets much easier.

Chromebooks are better for most users

[Anonymous Coward]

I've given tablets to several non-technical family members and what I'm seeing is that here in year 2 they're all back to using laptops for most couch usage:
- email
- facebook
- shopping
- news

The tablets are only used for:
- countertop usage (pandora, recipies)
- kids toy

He's right... but who cares?

[sparkyradar]

I have an iPad, and Bill's right - it's no fun to type on. So what, though - I got it as a super-nice eReader, and it excels at this... A Surface device with keyboard is a solution, looking for a problem where none exists (for me, anyway).

What's my son doing up there in his bedroom?

[ProfessorDoom]

Dear Abby,

    Ever since we got my 13-year old an iPad, he's gone up to his bedroom after dinner each night and asked us to not disturb him while he "creates a document." Today I learned from Bill Gates that he can't actually create a document.

    Should I knock before entering his room to ask about this?

business travel

[Anonymous Coward]

Been trying a surface for a few months. Initially I hated it then gradually I understood the use case.

0.5 or 1 day business travel
+ presentations
+ note taking
+ email
+ being bored at the airport (except it sucks because almost all the apps require internet)

Bill.....

[tekrat]

Trying so hard to still be relevant.

He's trying hard to sell Balmer's terrible mistakes. Bill, I hope your money still isn't tied up in Microsoft Stock, as in 10 years it's gonna be over for you.

I can create documents on my phone. It's called a bluetooth keyboard and you can get one on Amazon for as little as $20 for a Chinese apple knock-off. (So cheap, I keep one at home, and one at work, so I don't have to carry the keyboard, just my phone).

Bill, you're smoking crack and you've missed the boat again.

Re:Bill.....

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting because the Microsoft TV ads show people in an office dancing and sliding around on tables then they touch a button and make a pie chart with 3 slices. Wow, that's productivity.

tuck yew Getes!

[Anonymous Coward]

Eye con two typ!

e femboi

And WinTablet users

[obarthelemy]

are frustrated they can't play, watch videos, access their dlna servers, nor their web 2.0 sites... So let's all go Android ! :-p

God's temple

[Anonymous Coward]

God says...

moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind,
and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill
the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after
his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his
kind: and it was so.

1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle
after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after
his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Funny...

[Anonymous Coward]

I can pair a bluetooth keyboard with my iPad, and have document creation apps, not to mention google docs. Considering I also have a 13.3" ultrabook, my ipad is usually just a general browsing/mail checker.

Marketing.. all marketing I say.

[Anonymous Coward]

What is Bill going to say? MS is trying to market the Surface with Windows 8 before it dives off of the cliff. If I had a grand to blow on the Surface Pro with the extras (free would be better), I'm sure it'll be pretty sweet in the Windows world. The key here is that Android and iPad since have been on the market for years now and an app ecosystem to complement them. We don't _all_ need Microsoft software anymore. Some yes, but definitely not all. That is what people are finding out.
As for the Surface and the MS keyboard, it can be a good selling option, but there are 3rd party companies for Android/iPad that compete on the same level. MS is not innovating in hardware design; they are copying. They have their fair share of work to merge the desktop/laptop/tablet/phone. They are on the right track but can they do it without people hating the Win8 interface? I thought Apple would move faster on this (one OS / Interface), but that is still a ways away.

What's funny is I read reviews on Best Buy cheap laptops. A LOT of reviewers say they very much dislike Windows 8. And how do they go back to the "start" bar -- officially? Please give a legacy GUI for people who don't want the Win8 GUI, but have no choice.

Back to topic: MS Surface is a good idea for what they are doing with x86 after being a couple years too late. I'm not so excited about their delivery or price mark -- they have price overhead with the legacy x86 hardware. Gates is only advertising the tablet. Gates already threw under the bus the old Windows phone -- why? Since MS already has a new revolutionary replacement. Enjoy!

Ball merits

[Anonymous Coward]

Bill may be a lot of things, but stupid was not one them. Whatever Ballmer has, might be contagious.

Re:Ball merits

[Anonymous Coward]

iPad got me again .... Should be ballmeritis.

Why compete with the dying platform

[tuppe666]

You have to question the wisdom of chasing the iPad which has dropped to 40% http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS24093213 of the tablet market for 3 quarters (even after launching a smaller tablet) having been overtaken by Android, and growing less than half the overall market (Android is almost doubling growth).

As for competing with Apple because of an Office product even if it were true http://www.androidauthority.com/libreoffice-android-release-171002/ Libreoffice is getting frustrating close to release.

You can tell Microsoft and Apple want the safe Duopoly back; Androids monster growth is not going to stop anytime soon, the iPad is a dying platform.

Re:Why compete with the dying platform

[dgatwood]

You have to question the wisdom of chasing the iPad which has dropped to 40% http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS24093213 [idc.com] of the tablet market for 3 quarters (even after launching a smaller tablet) having been overtaken by Android, and growing less than half the overall market (Android is almost doubling growth).

That's only half the story. When Android first came out on phones, they rapidly overtook Apple because there were a bunch of new players jumping into the game. Now that the market has stabilized, the pendulum is swinging back the other way. In the United States, iPhone sales are actually growing again, and now exceed Android phone sales. Worldwide, the numbers are also trending back in that direction. Chances are, the relative mix of sales will oscillate back and forth for a while before hitting some magic point of equilibrium in which a certain percentage of devices are iOS and a certain percentage are Android, and that won't change much until there is some major disruptive innovation. That's generally the way mature markets work.

Similarly, right now, Android is growing much faster in tablets because it's really easy to grow from zero to nonzero. Once that market ceases to gain new players (and eventually, it will pretty much stabilize), there's no reason to believe that we won't see the same pattern emerging.

You can tell Microsoft and Apple want the safe Duopoly back;

You're half right. Microsoft wants their duopoly back. Right now, it's pretty much an Android/Apple duopoly, and Microsoft is just warming up the bench. As far as I can tell, Apple doesn't really care who their competitor is, so long as they have one. Competition drives Apple to provide a better platform, and in the end, that's good for pretty much everyone, whether you're an Apple user or an Android user.

Androids monster growth is not going to stop anytime soon, the iPad is a dying platform.

If you honestly think that iPad is a dying platform, I have a bridge to sell you. Dying platforms don't tell 70+ WWDC tickets per second at $1,599 a pop.

Re:Why compete with the dying platform

[Anonymous Coward]

You're so full of shit. How about next time instead of just making crap up you at least try to find some other idiot who made shit up that you can link in as a supporting argument.

pages

[aahpandasrun]

People are used to Office being bundled with their computers. Sure we can download Pages on an iPad. But I don't think enough people know enough about that.

Stop the knee-jerk responses and listen

[93 Escort Wagon]

He's absolutely right. iPad users are frustrated at their inability to create documents without a hardware keyboard, and have been expressing their frustration by abandoning Apple and switching to Microsoft Surface tablets in droves*.

*For a sufficiently loose definition of "droves".

BillG: Pay NO ATTENTION to the last 10 years

[Anonymous Coward]

Shorter Bill Gates: "Pay NO ATTENTION to Microsoft's decade-long Tablet PC sales disaster. People really want these things now, fer reals!"

Fully functional PC in cramped quarters

[tepples]

People who use their PC for nothing but browsing the web, occassionaly sending email and posting to Facebook or Twitter are perfect candidates for a tablet. People who do real work use a "fully functional PC".

The problem here is that the popularity of limited-purpose tablets made it unprofitable to continue to produce a "fully functional PC" with a 10 inch display. A 10 inch laptop can be easier for a bus or carpool passenger to use in cramped quarters than a 13 inch laptop.

Re:Fully functional PC in cramped quarters

[alexhs]

A 10 inch laptop can be easier for a bus or carpool passenger to use in cramped quarters than a 13 inch laptop.

Let me respectfully disagree about that point. I'm using a 13" MacBook in public transports and the issue is not the laptop size as it isn't larger than my lap. The issue is that when typing on the keyboard, the elbows won't stay aligned with the body (technically possible, but uncomfortable), and a smaller laptop won't solve that.

Re:Fully functional PC in cramped quarters

[aristotle-dude]

A 10 inch laptop can be easier for a bus or carpool passenger to use in cramped quarters than a 13 inch laptop.

That would be a perfect example of someone with time management issues. Using a laptop in a carpool? Really? If it takes you that long to commute, consider moving in closer to work and giving yourself a better quality of life. Your productivity will go through the roof if you arrive at work refreshed and reading to face the day than if you have already a couple of hours in a car trying to type on a small keyboard and display.

A bus? Come on, nobody can actually get any work done on a bus.

You need to manage your time more effectively.

Re:Fully functional PC in cramped quarters

[Anonymous Coward]

My netbook was replaced with an Asus Transformer Pad. It's lightweight and compact (actually lighter and smaller than the netbook), turns on instantly and has four times the battery life. It also has a touch screen, which works as such whether the keyboard is attached or not. I can't imagine going back to a portable device that doesn't have a touch screen, and as for trackpads, forgetaboutit!

There is a Pages app

[NotPeteMcCabe]

The Pages app is, if I remember correctly, $10. It's not as feature-rich as Office but it's a usable word processor. It does have the new document feature. Also I seem to recall that airprint technology lets you print over wifi from your iPad. I've never tried it.

Re:There is a Pages app

[dingen]

What's the point of printing out stuff on paper anyway? Especially when you're carrying around a tablet and can show people stuff at meetings etc. much easier than you can by having to go through your stack of papers (hoping you brought the right ones!).

Re:There is a Pages app

[ceoyoyo]

Pages on the iPad manages to make figures stay where you want them, something Word has never managed.

If only it had change tracking.

Re:There is a Pages app

[dgatwood]

Printing photos of your kids, mostly. Same as with non-AirPrint printers. That and pictures of your cats. No, wait, that's what Facebook is for. My bad.

Re:There is a Pages app

[MightyMartian]

I've got Quickoffice on my Nexus 7 and have been monkeying around with using it in conjunction with a network aware file browser (ES File Explorer) and OpenVPN to give me access to our company's file server. It actually works reasonably well. Quickoffice is sufficiently useful that it opens most documents well enough. I'm still in the testing phase, and once I'm sure it works, we'll probably start rolling it out to the staff that have tablets.

Can't type on an iPad? Can't create documents?

[DragonWriter]

Gates continued to toe the party line insofar as he praised the benefits of Microsoft's tablets and Windows 8 while explaining that iPad users are frustrated because they have trouble typing and creating documents.

On what planet is this even approximately true? I can type and create documents on my iPhone (the only iOS device I own, but not the only one I've used.) Its, obviously, a rather cramped form factor for that, but the functionality is there. On an iPad, particularly with one of the many keyboards, this is even easier -- just as easy as it would be on a PC (or, presumably, a Windows-based tablet with external keyboard, like the Surface.)

They don't have Office there.

That's more of a problem for Microsoft than for the users.

Re:Can't type on an iPad? Can't create documents?

[Anonymous Coward]

Great, we're taking away your desktop/laptop. You can type all your full-sized documents on your touch screen device. I am going to give you the benifit of the doubt, and assume your ignorance is feigned, and are fully aware that he means that while it CAN be done, it is not something that is practical for typing any document of length.

The problem with the iPad-with-a-keyboard, (I won one of the things, and have a fanboy boss who keeps trying to convence me it's actually useable for more then just a toy, so now I have one of the keyboards too) is it is just not designed for it. The screen lays in an uncomfortable position, The keyboard uses bluetooth, so there is one more transmitter draining the battery life from the iPad, every time you want to move around in the UI you have to go to the touchscreen to do it (keyboard to scroll around? no surr-ee!), it's one more thing to keep charged, and it doubles the weight.

I might as well use my trusty netbook, which has a UI suited to the work.

keyboard cover

[mondovoja]

Thin keyboard covers, like those shipping with Surface, have been available for iPad for several years before Microsoft copied them.

no

[phorm]

But I would really like it if I could use documents from my PC on my tablet, especially spreadsheets, which are great for doing things such as
* Tracking client appointments, pay, travel, expenses, etc
* Keep a budget
* Tracking mileage on my vehicle (granted there are separate apps for this)
Thus far all the apps I've used for that tend to be fairly limited

I don't expect my tablet to be a PC. I wouldn't expect to play PC games on a tablet, and I probably wouldn't do a lot of coding unless the horsepower/storage scale up a lot more, but editing documents... yeah, I wouldn't mind that.

Re:no

[Macgrrl]

Earlier this year I was involved in a collaborative writing project where all three authors were using iPads and the documents were hosted as goggle docs in a shared repository.

One author was using a 3rd party bluetooth keyboard, myself and the 3rd author were using the onscreen keyboard. For edits and proofing the workflow with the iPads and google docs worked really well.

I have subsequently purchased one of the Logictech keyboard for when I travel and want the capability to type longer documents. I frequently type shorter documents on the iPad onscreen keyboard directly.

Re:no

[recoiledsnake]

The fact that you have to tell us this story is very telling and shows that it's not a natural thing to do.
Do you ever see people tell a tale about how they used their laptop to type a document?

Re:no

[Anonymous Coward]

I honestly wonder if people like you read what you write, or if you just dribble on your keyboard and move on.

It's a counterpoint to the endlessly repeated (and incorrect) claim that you can't do work on a tablet. Clearly people can, and people do. Of course it's new, tablets are still new (compared with ~40 years of personal computers).

Re:no

[Gr8Apes]

Do you see someone arguing that a laptop is hard to type on? (Those super mini ultrabooks sure are) If they did you would probably be the first one to post a similar rebuttal.

For short responses to emails, tweets, chats, and oter similarly short things, the onscreen keyboard is more than sufficient on an iPad. Hell, people use those miniscule on screen keyboards on their phones to do the same, and apparently they are not worthy of complaints.

If you're going to type a novel or something else "long", you might want a little more feedback, and one of those BT keyboards would be just the thing. They'll work for some of those phones, too.

Re:no

[phorm]

I'd imagine there were all sorts of stories about what one could do with a laptop when the were still fairly fresh and PC's were much more common.
I certainly remember people commenting about things like gaming on laptops, which initially was not very good/desirable but later picked up when the mobile graphics cards improved and TFT screens came out.

The GP is posting because trolls like yourself are saying it isn't done. Seems a fairly direct cause and effect to me.

Re:no

[Anonymous Coward]

You're a fucking retard.

Re:no

[recoiledsnake]

>

The GP is posting because trolls like yourself are saying it isn't done. Seems a fairly direct cause and effect to me.

Trolls? The issue is not whether it is or isn't done. It's about the right tool for the job. There are a lot of people who can do amazing things with MS Paint, but that doesn't mean that people should replace Photoshop with it.

http://mytechquest.com/windows/amazing-ms-paint-pictures/

Show that to a Photoshop user and tell them to use Paint instead and watch yourself get laughed out the room. Just because you can do something with something doesn't mean you should.

Re:no

[phorm]

Best tool for the job. Doesn't mean that people should plan to replace photoshop with mspaint, but it also doesn't mean that mspaint shouldn't be available.

Best tool for large spreadsheets, documents, etc: still a PC (or a laptop).
Best tool when one is on the go: Might not be the above. Just like a camera on a cellphone isn't going to compare to a DSLR, it's still a useful thing to have for many people depending on the situation. Not many people cart a full-sized camera around all the time.

I don't plan on writing out a master's thesis or a 1000x1000 cell Excel spreadsheet on a tablet, but for many more casual uses it's still useful.

Nobody is telling people that they *have* to use tablets instead of PC's (well, MS did foist a crappy tablet-centric interface out with win8, but different topic). They're saying the option is available.

So frustrated...

[kwiqsilver]

We're so frustrated that we keep buying more and more iPads thinking it will fix the problem.

And of course, we would never do anything a stupid as use an iPad for what it's good for and a notebook or desktop for what they're good for. Nope. We assume every electronic device should do everything that our other electronic devices do. What I'm really frustrated about with the iPad is its inability to make toast or wash my clothes.

Re:So frustrated...

[shikaisi]

What I'm really frustrated about with the iPad is its inability to make toast or wash my clothes.

You're holding it wrong.

Dear Bill

[istartedi]

Get back to the fundamentals. Quit trying to copy Apple. You lost site of what made your ecosystem worthwhile on the desktop:

1. Hardware vendors that had to meet your standard, which was relatively open. Result? Lots of hardware that works with Windows.

2. I can develop anything I want without paying you anything except of course the OS and hardware. I buy your development tools because I like them, not because I have to buy them. I can develop with 3rd party tools if I want to do that. Result? Tons of software that runs on Windows.

3. Things take a long time to become obsolete. It seems like just yesterday that DOS applications still ran on Windows. I don't recall when this went away because by the time it did, all my DOS apps were gone because I didn't want them anymore; not because you forced my hand.

No, you're not Free/Open Source; but you're "open enough" and it was working.

You and your company got side-tracked by "app store envy". You thought you could be like Apple. You started clamping down on what was open, gripping too tight. Result? You have a lame Apple clone, and you alienated the people who liked you because of the numbered points above.

Re:Dear Bill

[Anonymous Coward]

We never liked your businessplan anyways.
Cheers.

Re:Dear Bill

[istartedi]

YOU never liked his business plan. People were free to come up with something else, and did. Different strokes for different folks.

Re:Dear Bill

[Anonymous Coward]

You could be 100% right about everything in your post, but public companies most still focus on profit, and profit they do:

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2013/apr13/04-18fy13Q3earningsPR.aspx

Re:Dear Bill

[istartedi]

You could be 100% right about everything in your post, but public companies most still focus on profit, and profit they do:

Typical short-term thinking, feeling happy because you hit a good quarterly number. Now zoom out. That's terrible, even when you account for compounding dividends.

Over the past 5 years they've had rough parity with the S and P. That would be OK if they were just a utility; but this is supposed to be a technology company. Where was the growth the past 10 years? As an investor, I could have just bought SPY, had similar performance, and slept better at night the past several years.

Re:Dear Bill

[WheezyJoe]

You and your company got side-tracked by "app store envy". You thought you could be like Apple. You started clamping down on what was open, gripping too tight. Result? You have a lame Apple clone, and you alienated the people who liked you because of the numbered points above.

Wish I could mod parent up to 6.
Wall St. saw Apple's iTunes and app store cash machines and told Ballmer in no uncertain terms to get on the bandwagon. Amid youngster analysts making a name for themselves by squawking that the PC is dead (long live tablet/phone), investors punished Microsoft's stock price and demanded Ballmer do something drastic or find other work.

Windows 8/RT is an ill-advised, rushed to market, knee-jerk reaction to investor pressure, with the investor tag line of leveraging desktop dominance for future earnings on mobile. And why not? Microsoft has gotten away with a lot of mistakes simply because they have so many desktops out there. But the company has never bet before on making app developers pay to play on their platform. There's no guarantee it will work.

Shoulda stuck with what they do well. But public companies answer to shareholders, and they tend not to think that far ahead.

No...

[ziviani]

Please give me socks in next birthday, son. This thing sucks.

Bill Gates Sr.

-- Sent from my Surface RT

If Bill thinks iPad users are bad...

[SendBot]

He should check out windows users sometime. They can't:
- find the very files that they just saved
- or even just browse the contents of their machine
- switch between programs without a mouse (I alt-tab and they go "woah, how'd you do that!?")
- change the toner catridge in the network printer themselves
- climb under their own dirty desks to plug things in
- be trusted to install their own software
- understand why IE is a poor choice

Yes, I did work as a support monkey for a little while.

Re:If Bill thinks iPad users are bad...

[MrNiceguy_KS]

Reading your comment just made me (and probably thousands of current and former help-desk staff) involuntarily twitch. The first two in particular remind me of a conversation I've had dozens of time in some variation.

Me: "Where did you save your file?"
User: "It's in Excel"

Those rubber mouse pads sure are nice for when you need to bang your head against the desk.

recently transitioned to google docs at work

[Brigadier]

We recently went through a pretty agressive transition to google docs in my department. Approximately 40 people mostly accountants and managers who's marriage to office was extreme. There was extreme push back by the accountants for the very reason stated in the article. Android/Google aren't real documents. you can only view snapshots but cannot work efficiently. The collaboration was the sell, with the thinking being use your pc to edit in native office formats. At this point all the accountants have switched over to google sheets. I think the reason is Microsoft's definition of a document is this behemoth file with every option. I think Microsoft is backing the wrong horse here. I can accomplish the same amount on my android device as on my desktop at work. It may not have all teh graphic coolness but it does what it needs to do.

Re:recently transitioned to google docs at work

[aaarrrgggh]

I was going to be snarky and suggest that the accountants would be happy until they tried to do a pivot table... then realized Google has added that into Sheets! Might have to consider a change...

Re:recently transitioned to google docs at work

[recoiledsnake]

Another typical short sighted anti-MS karmawhoring Slashdot post while whoring Google Docs which Google controls and can take away at moment's notice.
http://ehsanakhgari.org/blog/2012-04-13/how-i-lost-access-my-google-account-today
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4013799
Meanwhile, in the real world, Office is making record revenues.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/20/technology/microsoft_earnings/index.htm

To be fair on Billy

[tuppe666]

Bill, you're smoking crack and you've missed the boat again.

From the article http://allthingsd.com/20091005/while-fanboys-breathlessly-await-steve-jobs-apple-itab-they-should-probably-thank-bill-gates-too/ "Way back in the fall of 2001, when BoomTown was but a less-aged version of myself, I attended a keynote speech at the now-defunct Comdex show in Las Vegas, where Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates continued to bang the drum for one of his long-running obsessions: The tablet computer.

“The tablet takes cutting-edge PC technology and makes it available whenever you want it, which is why I’m already using a tablet as my everyday computer,” Gates said at the time to the audience gathered at the MGM Grand Garden Arena. “It’s a PC that is virtually without limits and within five years I predict it will be the most popular form of PC sold in America.”"

Ironically Bill Gates say the future...he built the damn boat, ironically in the context of this article he just hitched it up to windows;intel...and in context of this article Office.

Re:To be fair on Billy

[bussdriver]

Gates was still getting it all from others... 10 years late:
See: the Knowledge Navigator at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRH8eimU_20

Re:To be fair on Billy

[Anonymous Coward]

Sometimes people don't fully understand their own ideas...

BS

[evil_aaronm]

On a couple of counts: 1. For typing, I can use the built-in "keyboard" easily enough. When I know I'll have to type a lot, like at a meeting, I'll bring my BT keyboard. 2. For creating documents, there are a number of Word-sort-of-compatible apps: Pages; Office2; QuickOffice; QuickWord; Documents To Go; etc. Yeah, it's not 100% Office compatibility, but if I need to shoot off a quick doc with some formatting, a table or two, I can do it. I'd use it on the airplane, or riding along as a passenger on a road trip to put together a rough draft that I'd finish in the office, using Word on the desktop. I realize that the platform and apps are limited, and there's a time and place to do different kinds of work. It's a matter of setting expectations.

Re:BS

[Just Some Guy]

Markdown has been my salvation for quickly creating formatted documents. I'd much rather type plaintext into something like iA Writer than labor over WYSIWYG layout in a full-fledged word processor. That doesn't help for opening docs, of course, but it's my new favorite way for creating new content when I'm away from my desktop.

If you don't need airplane mode, use RDP

[tepples]

Reference the guy who handed an iPad and an Office 2003 install disc and said get this working by tomorrow.

Would installing Office 2003 on a Windows PC and installing an RDP client on the iPad be a solution? I do acknowledge that it would fail in airplane mode.

Lack of keyboard vs BSOD.

[MouseTheLuckyDog]

Wow a minor miracle.
BIll Gates notices that IPhone users are frustrated because they have to buy a bluetooth keyboard to type a lot.

Too bad he didn't notice that for two decades that Windows users are frustrated because their computers keep crashing.

If you already spent your budget on an iPad

[tepples]

People somehow think it's a zero sum game. If you have an iPad you can't do any work. Sometimes an iPad is the right device, sometimes you need a full desktop PC.

And if you already spent your budget on an iPad, you might not have much left for a desktop PC when you do need one.

Re:If you already spent your budget on an iPad

[jedidiah]

It seems all of the fanboys got their collective panties in a bunch because someone is not worshiping their pet brand.

The point is not to pretend that the tablet is something that it is not. The point is to honestly acknowledge what it is good at then use THAT for some productive purpose.

Re:If you already spent your budget on an iPad

[jon3k]

If you have to chose one or the other, then yes that would be true. For many (many) people, you can have both.

Ironically...

[tuppe666]

Or better yet, they could sell Windows RT for the iPad!

In Google play https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft.switchtowp8 Switch to Windows Phone App. After noting it doesn't run on any of my devices...a first. It actually manages to achieve 600 1* scores (the others are negligible)

Non-point-and-click video games

[tepples]

Ipads are wonderful reference devices and even better video game machines.

A Nexus 7 or iPad is wonderful for point-and-click games like Bejeweled or Fruit Ninja or Monkey Island, but not all video games are point-and-click. How would one play, say, a platformer or fighting game using only a touch screen? Does an iPad even let the user connect a gamepad or joystick?

Re: Non-point-and-click video games

[Yaztromo]

Games on the iPad that require such controls usually use on-screen controls where your hands will naturally rest when holding the device. Effectively, parts of the sides and corners of the display become your control pad. Some emulate distinct buttons (such as in Prince of Persia), whereas others use a sort of virtual thumbstick.

The best games also provide a system whereby when plugged into a TV or connected wirelessly to an external display they display their gaming graphics on the external display, and the entire mobile device becomes nothing but status information and the control surface. Really quite slick. I think the only reason why we haven't seen Apple really pushing this mode hard is that it works best in an all 802.11n environment with low and steady latency -- even though a number of games already support such a mode, for all too many consumers with unknown random wireless network setups the overall experience may not be all that great. And playing with a wire hanging out of the side of the device is a bit of a PITA.

Yaz.

(Composed on an iPad, FWIW)

Re:Non-point-and-click video games

[AK Marc]

The more complex inputs are handled by dual-sticks, no buttons. If you can't do it with that, it's hard to do.

Re:Non-point-and-click video games

[tepples]

The more complex inputs are handled by dual-sticks

So where do you plug the dual-stick into the iPad? I must be misunderstanding something fundamental.

Re: Non-point-and-click video games

[tepples]

on-screen controls where your hands will naturally rest when holding the device

But in which direction will my thumbs "naturally" point when I rest my hands on the device? If I've been playing a lot of Xbox 360, my thumbs will "naturally" point in a somewhat different direction than if I've been playing a lot of PlayStation 3. And different people's thumbs are different sizes. Furthermore, hands will shift somewhat during gameplay.

Effectively, parts of the sides and corners of the display become your control pad.

I've tried that in Nesoid on a Nexus 7. Too often, I ended up "whiffing", or pressing the wrong button or no button at all, because my hands had shifted.

others use a sort of virtual thumbstick

Are you talking about the system described here and used for directional control in Super Mario 64 DS (2004), where the thumbstick recenters each time the thumb is lifted and replaced? If so, how easily do players adapt to "right thumb swipe up == jump"?

The best games also provide a system whereby when plugged into a TV or connected wirelessly to an external display they display their gaming graphics on the external display, and the entire mobile device becomes nothing but status information and the control surface. Really quite slick.

Was this before the Wii U was first publicly demonstrated?

Re:Non-point-and-click video games

[AK Marc]

Right thumb, one stick, left thumb, second stick. It's centered on the screen based on initial contact point, and resets on re-touch. surprisingly usable, and not unlike a number of arcade games that used two sticks and no buttons.

Re:Non-point-and-click video games

[brentrad]

There are some good platformers on Android, but it's true that a lot of games don't get the touch controls right. (Platformers and racing games are my two favorite types of games.) The best platformer I've played on Android so far is Cordy 2:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.silvertree.cordy2&hl=en

Racing games are pretty easy to get right: most use either touch zones (i.e. touch the right side of the screen to turn right, touch the left side of the screen to turn left, gesture or touch onscreen buttons for brakes and nitro), or use tilt-to-steer using the accelerometer/gyroscope sensors. Tilt-to-steer works pretty good on a smartphone, but is terrible on a tablet (your hand/wrist muscles get sore very quickly tilting something the size of a tablet.) I prefer the touch zones usually. The Asphalt racing series is the best IMO - they've got the controls down pretty nicely, and they're fairly long games with good variety of tracks.

Re:Non-point-and-click video games

[brentrad]

But where an Android tablet really shines for gaming might be surprising: emulators. Just about every classic gaming console has multiple emulators available, and Wii console controllers, including the Classic Controller with dual analog sticks, can be easily connected via bluetooth if you install a free app from the Play store. No need for rooting or any special access. The app simply translates the Wii controller as a keyboard, so any app that supports custom keyboard mappings, i.e. "w" for up, "x" for down, etc. will work. Open the battery case of the Wii controller, click the button so it attempts to connect, click the discovery button in the app, set the Wii Remote as your current keyboard, and you're ready to go. You just need to go into the settings for each emulator app, and teach it to recognize your Wii controller. Do it once and it's saved in the app forever. I've been playing a bunch of NES, Super Nintendo, and Genesis games lately, including playing through Phantasy Star II, one of the best ever RPGs, for Sega Genesis. I previously played through Super Mario Land and I'm starting on Yoshi's Island.

Re:Non-point-and-click video games

[VanessaE]

Well, consider that there are many actions in a typical game that can be as easily* done with gestures as with a joystick or gamepad. It's all a matter of changing how you think about the game's controls. Let's take your platformer example:

Walking around? Seems to me that sliding your finger slowly around the screen along a viable path should work for that.

Need to shoot? A quick tap on your target seems fair (with a certain amount of "randomness" so that not every shot is perfect).

Need to jump? Swipe diagonally upwards to jump in that direction.

Need to crouch? Swipe diagonally downwards (the player should have a short timeout during which they stay crouched).

Need to operate an object on the screen (e.g. a door or something)? Tap your finger on it.

Want to use your special power-up? Surely there's an icon somewhere showing that you have it, so tap that icon.

Need to examine something? Use the two-finger "zoom" gesture on it.

Did I miss something?

(* Assuming you can consider programming/interpreting gestures as "easy" to begin with.)

Re:Non-point-and-click video games

[tepples]

OK, so let's try this again from the top: Which Android platformers do you recommend as examples of games that handle more complex inputs well by dual-sticks?

Re: Non-point-and-click video games

[Yaztromo]

But in which direction will my thumbs "naturally" point when I rest my hands on the device? If I've been playing a lot of Xbox 360, my thumbs will "naturally" point in a somewhat different direction than if I've been playing a lot of PlayStation 3. And different people's thumbs are different sizes. Furthermore, hands will shift somewhat during gameplay.

The direction your thumbs point doesn't matter, as the iPad doesn't calculate the orientation of your fingers, merely where on screen they touch. If you want to put them on a 45 degree angle, that's fine. Naturally, up is still going to be towards the top of the screen, but with the bevel as a sort of guide this isn't difficult to maintain without looking at all.

Are you talking about the system described here and used for directional control in Super Mario 64 DS (2004), where the thumbstick recenters each time the thumb is lifted and replaced? If so, how easily do players adapt to "right thumb swipe up == jump"?

I don't play a lot of games, so I can't really say what the typical scenario is. However, from the ones I have which have some sort of "jump" feature, this is usually given a dedicated button, with the virtual gamepad acting more for direction than discrete actions. Different control surface requires a different input paradigm.

The best games also provide a system whereby when plugged into a TV or connected wirelessly to an external display they display their gaming graphics on the external display, and the entire mobile device becomes nothing but status information and the control surface. Really quite slick.

Was this before the Wii U was first publicly demonstrated?

This functionality was demonstrated at the iPad 2 launch on March 2nd, 2011. According to Wikipedia, the Wii U was first announced in April 2011. So it seems like it was indeed.

Yaz

Uhhhh

[Kimomaru]

"but without giving up what they expect in a PC."

So, I guess he means a Windows PC. So, it crashes every 20 minutes? Ahhhh, who could resist? I accept this troll award with open arms.

A little bit of yes

[EmperorOfCanada]

I would like to be able to type more on my iPad. I even got the iPad keyboard (stupid thing is in portrait not landscape) but that is not what small devices are for. Small devices are for content consumption. Large double/triple screened monsters are for content creation. By consumption, taking pictures or sending texts are at the small end and doing 3D animation is at the large end.

Even accountants need double monitors. I am mostly a C++ developer using 2 screens and wishing for 3. My iPad is for watching Coursera and other lecture videos. My iPhone is for texting, a tiny bit of email, a microscopic amount of browsing, and for listening to Audiobooks and lectures, oh and phone calls.

In a super emergency I use my iPhone or iPad for SSHing into my server; but that is purified suckage.

If I had to make a prediction it would be that many consumers won't even consider getting a home PC what they will do is get large screened smart phones. A possibility is that a good docking station comes out so they can have a laptop type interface where the vast computing bulk comes from the phone. This way they can type longer letters, write school reports, properly interface with a printer, and fill out complicated on-line forms.

I don't want my tablet/smartphone to try to be more and fail. I don't ever want to edit a spreadsheet on something so frustrating. Any attempt to make it less frustrating will just frustrate me more.

No they're not.

[mosb1000]

I've never met anyone with this complaint. I suspect that people who wan't a PC are choosing to buy those, and not iPads.

The problem is not the keyboard. It's been a long time since I've used a computer with fewer than two screens to do any real work. A tablet cold never be large enough to meet my work related needs, but small enough to be usable as a tablet, so there's no sense trying to find compromise between the two.

Tablets are more portable.

[tuppe666]

I am not sure where the concept of a tablet being about passive consumption came about. The reality is the new breed of tablet that come with pens have the potential of being more productive. That is not to say your passive consumers on today tablets...that is simply not true.

If you had said a mouse makes a better better pointing device than a finger, or for a competent typist can type marginally faster than someone swiping with their finger. I'd agree, and for a single task computer that replies on these things...like a typist a computer is better, for everyone else its a trade on portability; storage; screen estate.(I personally think they Desktop & Tablet compliment each other nicely)

Personally I use a Desktop almost everything...but that is because of its great big screen, not any misguided belief in productivity.

Fingers out of alignment

[tepples]

Notes - Tap the + - Start typing. I'm guessing he's never seen an iPad.

Fiid kyxj dwwkubf qgwew tiye dubfwea Ew ewkRucw ri rgw ib0axewwb jwtviEs,

No wait:
zhppf ;ivl grr;omh ejrtr upit gomhrtd str tr;syobr yp yjr pm=dvtrrm lrunpstf/

Let me try that a third time:
Good luck feeling where your fingers are relative to the on-screen keyboard.

Re:Fingers out of alignment

[AK Marc]

The number of touch typists are pretty slim. I don't know anyone at work, other than a couple secretaries that would have a desktop only, who can touch type. I've held a conversation with someone (looking at them) while typing, and he was amazed and called people over to proofread my touch typing while I was talking to him. And I can't type on 50% of laptops. So many have a non-standard key spacing these days. The non-touch typists would never know, and the few people left who touch type would have the same issues you complain about on tablets on many laptops, though I've found the problem less with more 15"+ widescreens, but the sub-14" all seem to be unusable for touch-typists.

Re:Fingers out of alignment

[narcc]

The number of touch typists are pretty slim. I don't know anyone at work, other than a couple secretaries that would have a desktop only, who can touch type.

Sorry, where do you work? I know very few people who can't touch-type, I can't think of any work mates who lack that skill.

It's been compulsory in schools (at least in my area) for a long time now. Of course, they'd have a difficult time getting through school without that skill, even the elementary school kids are required to type some assignments these days.

What do you call it when

[Swampash]

the Chairman of the company that has utterly failed at something criticizes the company that is making money hand over fist for not understanding what customers want?

If Only

[hduff]

There were some kind of MS Office for the I-Pad, that would solve the problem!

10" vs. 12" in the back seat of a compact car

[tepples]

Many people still like them, but when I can get a used Thinkpad X2whatever for cheap it makes no sense for me to buy one.

If you have to use a laptop in cramped quarters, such as a bus, airplane, or the back seat of a C-segment compact car, is there a noticeable difference between the 10" screen of a netbook and the 12" screen of a ThinkPad X200 series? Does the seat in front of you push the screen to an odd angle?

Re:10" vs. 12" in the back seat of a compact car

[couchslug]

Not to me. I find my X200, to which I added 8GB RAM and an SSD, ideal.

It fits in a tool bag with my textbooks, making it ideal for school use.

Bill, I don't have problems creating documents

[sillivalley]

Bill, I don't have any problems creating documents using my iPad, or working on those documents on my Macbook Pro or MacPro desktop
Things just work. I update a document on one platform, and it appears on the others.

What I do have problems with is Visio under Windows -- damn, that's a hostile program! Even when trying to integrate Visio content with Office documents. Look on the bright side -- it's like opening Christmas presents -- you never know what you're going to get! But most of the time with Windows, it's not what you expected (or wanted).

But I guess that's because I don't understand, and haven't accepted the Windows hegemony and world-view.

Not that I'm singularly focused on Apple -- I do a lot of work on Linux-based platforms, and OSX plays nice with those as well.

No problems creating and editing documents using my iPad... I hear the shrill cry that the iPad tools don't have the "richness" of MS Word, or Excel, or Visio...
About that "richness" -- my guess is probably 80% of the "features" in those programs go unused. Most of the time when I run into one of those "features" it's because something popped up and now I'm searching for how to turn it the hell off.
And what apps such as Pages and Numbers don't offer, apps such as Evernote and Skitch do -- and they work, across platforms (even Windows).

And don't worry, Bill -- these things are just fads anyway. Don't RIM and Dell say so?

Nice big 1080p HDMI monitor

[tepples]

a nice big monitor, a real keyboard and a real mouse. Tablets will never have that

How not? When you want to create a document, you connect the tablet's HDMI out to a 1080p monitor, pair a Bluetooth keyboard, and turn the tablet's screen into a real trackpad. True, Apple sort of flubbed up with video over Lightning, having to put half the guts of an Apple TV in the Lightning-to-HDMI cable, but that's probably fixable in the iPad (5th generation).

I hate apple - but love the ipad

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate Apple, I don't like anything about The company or the Fanboys that will defend Apple no matter what, even if it creates a total POS unit. I think it's silly that Microsoft makes fun of the iPad for not having the ability to write a document or create spreadsheets Microsoft products don't come with office preloaded for free, and office costs well over $100 Furthermore you can get that functionality on iPad for $10 each. $10 in order to get an Excel type program called numbers, $10 for program name pages which is word Pretty much get any program available on for Microsoft PC, note the term PC not system administrator server, but a PC Everything is smoother on the iPad that I'm surface, and the truth is I just like the fit and finish a lot more on this product so before you go bashing it just because it's Apple that makes you just as bad as a fanboy of Apple the defense any piece of crap the company mix

Tablets and Laptops/PCs are two different animals.

[SCHecklerX]

Tablets are for content consumption. The interface needs to be toned down, with larger buttons and/or gesture interfaces to interact and multitask (Like WebOS). The interface doesn't need to be as flexible, but it must be consistent.

Laptops/PCs are for content creation. You type a lot here. You don't reach out and touch the screen. You also don't want huge buttons and gestures, as they are a poor interface on these devices. The interface must be FLEXIBLE, but CONSISTENT. It must be adaptable to a workflow. The direction all modern interfaces are headed are failing miserably at this.

Ubuntu and Gnome3 don't get this either. It's annoying.

Here Bill, Let Me Google That For You

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, of course nobody has thought of creating a keyboard for an iPad. Especially not using an industry standard wireless interconnect, like, say, bluetooth?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bluetooth+keyboard+ipad

Lets look at the figures :)

[tuppe666]

That's only half the story. When Android first came out on phones, they rapidly overtook Apple because there were a bunch of new players jumping into the game. Now that the market has stabilized, the pendulum is swinging back the other way.

...the other half of the story I'm afraid to tell you is a whole lot worse here are the latest figures for Apple smartphones http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS24085413 The short version is Apple dropped in one quarter from 23% to 17.3%. Year on Year it had single digit growth of 6.6% in a market that grew 41%. What your saying in not only off-topic but not true.

Re:Lets look at the figures :)

[dgatwood]

What you're saying is that Apple isn't doing as well as Android on the world stage. What I'm saying is that Apple is solidly regaining its lead in the United States. Both statements are correct.

What if Gates/MS is right, and YOU don't get it.

[bkgoodman]

Stop telling people what their tablet should be used for, and listen to them

I'veI seen people bumbling around with smartphones, tablets and PDAs trying to take them to meetings and conferences, and use them to take notes. They all suck. The iPad keyboard is not "like a dream" to type on no matter what Steve Jobs said.

I know one guy who has a surface pro - I asked him (as a joke) how he liked it. He said "it's great - I grab it on a way to a meeting - I can type - take notes, write docs, do spreadsheets."

It's not about replacing the desktop - but being able to do some work while your not at it.

I hate MS just as much as the next guy (I'm actually a Linux and iOS zealot) - but I believe microsoft's biggest mistake was showing those commercials with stupid people dancing around clicking their covers on-and-off and not showing what the product could actually do for you.

My tablet is fine

[LiamWhinery983]

I use the Asus TF300t for much of my "office" work. I can fill out my forms, print them while maintaining a conversation via messenger. Watch some youtube.com or cracked.com on breaks. A 32GB MSD is used to house my files, pdf books and mp3s while the on board 12GBs strictly holds my apps. What I'm saying is... outside of hardcore computing the tablet has been able to handle my superficial office work. The set-backs are in the touch screen typing and no flash for Android but I have become highly skilled typing on the touch screen.

Ironically

[tuppe666]

the Chairman of the company that has utterly failed at something criticizes the company that is making money hand over fist for not understanding what customers want?

I think you need to look at Micro$ofts Financial statements. It makes money hand over fist despite turning its profitable PC business into a touchless tablet...While not selling any actual tablets. Financially its been a success...and by the market it is seen as one going forward Its why its share price is up 25%...and Apple is buying back shares after its shareprice has dropped 45%.

If you are sill defending your mega corporation on profits alone you need a better argument. (It was always a little silly)

Re:Ironically

[Swampash]

The something is "selling tablet computers".

My mouse doesn't work with my iPad either.....

[Proudrooster]

Bill, if people want a laptop, let them by a laptop. If they want a keyboard for their Surface or iPad you pay more and there are plenty available. The PC World is not the Tablet world and the Tablet World is NOT THE PC World. It is a new category of device and people really seem to like them. Oh, and if you get a keyboard for your iPad I recommend the Zaggfolio. I am not sure what to do about the mouse. I am sure that the lack of a extra thing on the desk is really frustrating people as well instead of just touching what you want on the screen.

In case you miss it you can get a mouse of for the Surface and turn your tablet into a laptop, with the same battery life as a laptop vs. the 10 hours on a real tablet.

Oh and if you get a mouse, I recommend the Logitech Performance MX.

Re:My mouse doesn't work with my iPad either.....

[Anonymous Coward]

Bill, if people want a laptop, let them *by* a laptop.

You mean he shouldn't stand in their way?

Not true

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not frustrated at all with my ipad. If I want to key in extensively I use a MacBook Pro. Windows 8 is a bad interface based on faulty premises. Please put it in the same corner of your lab with the Zune.

who listens to BillG anymore?

[Anonymous Coward]

BillG also said that nobody would ever need more than 640kb, computer windows are only a novelty, DOS is all you need, the Internet doesn't matter, iPhones would fail, and other NIH (not invented here) nonsense. he is one of the worst predictors of future products. Until M$ starts to sell it, of course, then everyone needs it, because its a M$ standard.

Re:Can't you plug a keyboard into an iPad usb port

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, with the USB port on the camera connection kit.

Apple has not chosen to lock anything away

[SuperKendall]

What scares me about it is that the major player in the space (Apple) is choosing to lock the general-purposeness of their devices away;

For the average consumer how has Apple chosen to lock any general use away? You can buy apps for pretty much any purpose. You can attach standard keyboards, you can attach standard computer media, you can add MIDI interfaces or attach to Bluetooth devices of all kinds.

From a more technical stance, Apple has made it very, very easy for anyone to develop for iOS. For just $100 a year you can develop and run whatever the hell you like, and break all kinds of rules that would mean things could not go in the app store. They have supplied vast amounts of information on iOS development and also provide WWDC videos for free to all developers, this year even as the conference is ongoing.

And for the even more deeply technical users, there is jailbreaking. The jailbreaking community has said repeatedly that there are steps Apple could take that would in fact make jailbreaking impossible - but Apple has not and will not take those steps. They like to pull ideas (sometimes people) out of the jailbreak community, and furthermore have nothing against those that want to hack a system out of technical curiosity.

The only limits Apple have ever put in place were there to help non-technical users have a more usable system, but easily bypassed if you chose to - and over times as mobile devices have become more powerful and interface standards evolved, Apple has loosened even those restrictions (for instance any app in the app store can support background BTLE communications, and BTLE requires no custom license the way older Bluetooth devices did).

Apple is supporting a layered approach to access that makes a ton of sense, because it gives non-technical users a nearly virus/malware free experience while letting technical users go to town.

If you had the iPad as a kid today, there are a lot of coding options on an iPad that would let you learn and explore programming.

Re:Apple has not chosen to lock anything away

[jedidiah]

> For the average consumer how has Apple chosen to lock any general use away?

So Apple is the "lowest common denominator" brand now then? It's not for serious users or professionals or geeks or anyone that's the least bit creative?

That's a great brand identity you're building there.

The problem with the Apple approach is it lowers the bar for geeky. Simple things like getting your music back off your device or putting on a single Album suddenly become unecessarily complicated because of a Newspeak definition of "typical".

An average user can never hope to be exceptional. If they do manage to have a creative idea, they will be shouted down by the hive mind.

That's kind of ironic for a brand associated with creative professionals.

Re:Apple has not chosen to lock anything away

[SuperKendall]

So Apple is the "lowest common denominator" brand now then?

No, highest function.

It's not for serious users or professionals or geeks or anyone that's the least bit creative?

You should read what I wrote. It's for all those people. The default security in place in no way limits professionals or creative users. The only people who feel the default limits are geeks, and even then ONLY programming geeks - but since they can easily bypass the default system protection, they also are better off with an iOS device (especially since it's easier to hack iOS software than it is with Android or Windows Mobile).

Simple things like getting your music back off your device or putting on a single Album

Getting files in and out is easy, especially if you are using iCloud. Putting on a single album is pretty simple also with a lot of music playback options.

An average user can never hope to be exceptional.

They can if they use exceptional software, what you said is far more true of the Android user who can use the system to the fullest, but that ceiling is far lower than it is with any iOS device.

Today functionality lives in software, giving users greater OS freedom is a mere illusion of ability. Moving icons on your start screen is not a creative field.

Re:Apple has not chosen to lock anything away

[narcc]

The default security in place in no way limits professionals or creative users.

Professionals and creative people beg to differ!

The file system restrictions alone make it unsuitable for all but the most casual of casual users. No, iCloud is in no way an adequate replacement -- not even close.

Well, you'd know that if you were a professional or creative person.

What you said is far more true of the Android user who can use the system to the fullest, but that ceiling is far lower than it is with any iOS device.

What does this even mean? Are you saying that Apple products are so magical that they can do more (despite with their oppressive restrictions and last-gen hardware) than the lasted and greatest hardware with few to no restrictions?

That's ... well ... just delusional.

Re:Apple has not chosen to lock anything away

[SuperKendall]

Professionals and creative people beg to differ!

You are correct - I am both, and I beg to differ. With you.

The file system restrictions alone make it unsuitable for all but the most casual of casual users.

And this is how we can tell when technical users are unable to let go of the past.

No, iCloud is in no way an adequate replacement

It depends on how you use it.

Dropbox works better of course, and many professional apps support that also.

You obviously have not kept up on modern tablet use or development.

Well, you'd know that if you were a professional or creative person.

I make some money as a photographer and am also a software professional, knowing how tablets work from all sides. You seem to lack any kind of modern context as to what is really happening. You seem ignorant of even the most basic facts like the iOS enterprise adoption rate.

What does this even mean? Are you saying that Apple products are so magical that they can do more.

It's not magic. It's math. As in, far more serious applications are written to iOS than Android, and so there is simply far more that can be done with the platform.

Serious (dare I say professional) users are ones that buy computers for what they can do with the software, not for the sake of some kind of fanboi style support of a given platform. And that is why professionals to a huge degree choose iOS - sooner or later.

last-gen hardware

Yep, totally ignorant of the market you are trying to discuss. Otherwise you would know that aspect hardly matters...

I'll let you have the last response, it appears you know nothing of creating or business uses of modern mobile hardware, and I don't care to argue with a 16-year old who has boundless time to devote to crafting ever more inaccurate fantasies.

Re:Apple has not chosen to lock anything away

[narcc]

Quick question: Did you type your last response on an iPad? Why or why not?

Re:Apple has not chosen to lock anything away

[bryan1945]

If you're trying to be a "professional" on iOS, you're doing it wrong.

Re:Apple has not chosen to lock anything away

[Plumpaquatsch]

The default security in place in no way limits professionals or creative users.

Professionals and creative people beg to differ!

The file system restrictions alone make it unsuitable for all but the most casual of casual users.

WTF are you babbling about?

Re:Apple has not chosen to lock anything away

[Proteus]

So Apple is the "lowest common denominator" brand now then? It's not for serious users or professionals or geeks or anyone that's the least bit creative?

"Apple" isn't only iOS devices. Apple's understanding that there are people who don't need a workstation at all, and the iPad is really the first stab at being a workstation replacement for those folks. And it's pretty good at that -- I know plenty of people who only own an iPad as a computing device. They still use a workstation at work, but for their home needs, it's enough.

Apple still makes higher-end laptops, for example, for the "power user" set.

The problem with the Apple approach is it lowers the bar for geeky.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. If lots of people want to be geeky, I don't see that as a problem. There will always be power users and massive creators... and they will increasingly use systems where most of the compute power isn't in their hands, but distributed elsewhere (through the annoyingly-named "cloud computing" model or some other networked distribution). And you know what? A lot of those people will use something like an iPad as one of many windows to their work.

If they do manage to have a creative idea, they will be shouted down by the hive mind.

Right, because Apple is a "hive mind", not a company whose best interests are to promote creativity and profit from it. Apple's by no means perfect, and there are many problems with their business model. But this whole attitude that they're killing creativity is provably asinine -- I and many others have managed to create extensively using an iPad as our window to our work. I've written entire apps using the iPad and one of it's text editors combined with an SSH terminal (for remote execution), Safari, and a bluetooth keyboard. The tools are immature, but they exist, and I didn't find significant limitations.

That said, I wouldn't choose an iPad as my primary device. But I know many people who create things and only have an iPad -- it's just that they aren't creating digital things. Creativity is not only online, and while the iPad certainly puts some limits in place that make some kinds of creativity harder, it's certainly not designed to prevent creativity -- that's just pure, unadulterated bullshit.

Re:Apple has not chosen to lock anything away

[Proteus]

I wont pretend to be a "creative person", whatever that means. But this:

The file system restrictions alone make it unsuitable for all but the most casual of casual users. No, iCloud is in no way an adequate replacement -- not even close.

Is the dumbest thing I've read in this thread. Sandboxes still allow for interoperation and file/data sharing between apps. Without iCloud. They just require handlers to register and receive permission. There may be certain things that are harder on the iPad for creative work, but it's certainly possible, because people are doing it

Besides, you seem to be missing the original point -- no one is arguing that the iPad should replace the PC for everyone. No one is trying to "kill" the PC. Apple realized that most people don't even like to use the computer, but they put up with it because what they get (access to entertainment, communication with anyone on earth, and the sum of human knowledge) is valuable. They provided a better interface for those people to use.

I make stuff. Mostly software. I work mostly on a combination of a Linux box I built myself and a Macbook Pro (and, sometimes, a Chromebook). But I find the iPad indispensable all the same, because anyone who creates knows that being a good creator means consuming a lot, and the iPad is an outstanding way to brainstorm, research, and do rudimentary design.

Re:Apple has not chosen to lock anything away

[narcc]

Is the dumbest thing I've read in this thread. Sandboxes still allow for interoperation and file/data sharing between apps.

Don't be stupid. Real life example: On a work trip, a colleague of mine needed to send a few spreadsheets back to his office. He had an iPhone and a laptop. I had a laptop and a BlackBerry. We pulled over at the nearest town, hoping for wifi at one of the big chain restaurants. Well, no wifi was available at the first couple places we tried and he was running out of time. The obvious solution would be to copy the file to his iPhone and send the email from there. That was clearly impossible for him, given the absurd FS limitations imposed by iOS. I connected my BB via USB to his laptop, copied the files and send the email on his behalf.

This is just one of zillions of examples of where iOS's fear that users might be confused by having access to the file system leads to simple tasks becoming unnecessarily difficult or impossible.

it's certainly possible, because people are doing it

I could tap out a novel with a telegraph key too, that doesn't mean it's just as good as a full-sized keyboard. I don't have the time nor the inclination to force a pitifully inadequate tool into to my workflow. See, "can be done" is not the same as "can be done well". Of course, with the iPad you don't even get to "can be done" for many common tasks!

no one is arguing that the iPad should replace the PC for everyone

Are sure about at? You should read this thread!

But I find the iPad indispensable all the same, because anyone who creates knows that being a good creator means consuming a lot, and the iPad is an outstanding way to brainstorm, research, and do rudimentary design.

I'll bet that you're forcing ti in to your workflow, rather than it being an "indispensable" part. Tablets are wretched for research (which requires lots of writing and text manipulation) and design (in every way I can think of, at least. You left this ambiguous) The iPad is even less suitable than other offerings due to it's piss-poor multitasking facilities and the file system issues I mentioned earlier.

I'd urge you to think long and hard about that. Is your tablet actually better for the tasks your using it for than alternatives or are you seeking out places you can use it to justify the cost or just because you like tablets and want to integrate their use in to your work?

I create documents daily on iPad

[Anonymous Coward]

Bought Apple's Pages and Numbers software for iPad. Sync's perfect with documents on the desktop Mac. I daily create letters, spreadsheets, save as a PDF and email to clients.

The article is simply wrong.

partially agree..

[Anonymous Coward]

I use my iPad mainly to consume content, but having a built-in email and messenger app somewhat forces me to have a 2-way communication. I need to type fast and picking it with my finger/ stylus is a pain.

I wish iPad would allow Swype, or an alternative to their current input method. I would still stay away from actual keyboards though. I like the minimal and light form factor (compared to a laptop, or the clunky Surface).

Easier to adjust to small laptops than to glass

[tepples]

the sub-14" all seem to be unusable for touch-typists.

I learned to touch type in sixth grade, and I still touch type to this day. Yet I adjusted to the cramped keyboard of a 9" Eee PC for a year and a half, and my current laptop is a Dell Inspiron mini 1012 with a 10" screen that gives me no problem, though I did have to return one Bluetooth keyboard that I mail-ordered for my Nexus 7 because the right side of its space bar wasn't long enough. (I press space roughly below the line between N and M.) The difference between these and the iPad's on-screen keyboard is that the keys on physical keyboards have edges that the fingers can feel so that the typist can adjust how far the fingers are spread apart. A flat sheet of glass doesn't offer that sort of landmark. Video games have similar issues: the button spacing differs among different brands of gamepad, but the player can feel where his thumbs are by the edges of the buttons. The on-screen gamepad of some iPhone and iPad games lacks that too, which breaks video games that aren't point-and-click.

Re:Easier to adjust to small laptops than to glass

[AK Marc]

Rather than re-training myself to deal with a non-standard keyboard, I abandoned my only attempt at a 90% keyboard. It's easier to throw it away and get a real laptop.

My kids love gaming on a tablet/phone, more so than consoles, most of which are moving away from controllers.

Microsoft and Gates are Yesterday's News

[Anonymous Coward]

Gates retired from the playing field and turned his company over to a lightweight sales guy. That would be Steve Ballmer. That was in the year 2000. Microsoft has gone nowhere ever since. The stock price plateaued in 2000 and is still there. Ballmer has been a disaster but he's Gates buddy so he's been able to hang around.

Bring that Frustration to the PC!

[runeghost]

While Apple is focused on frustrating people using iPads, Microsoft is working hard to bring a similar level of frustration to the PC and laptop markets!

Apple’s global market share is plummeting

[tuppe666]

What you're saying is that Apple isn't doing as well as Android on the world stage. What I'm saying is that Apple is solidly regaining its lead in the United States. Both statements are correct.

No he didn't he said "iPhone sales are actually growing again, and now exceed Android phone sales. Worldwide, the numbers are also trending back in that direction." its just a lie the reality Apple’s global market share is plummeting.

Android still has a healthy margin over Apple in the US .This is a nice article that states how it is http://bgr.com/2013/05/06/smartphone-market-share-us-q1-2013-comscore/ "Android is eating everyone’s lunch in the U.S. – except for Apple’s"...and that is Apples strongest market. But the idea that Apple is regaining a lead...because the market shifted 2-3% is a bold statement ;)

iPad users are NOT frustrated

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Bluetooth Keyboard
2. Pages

Already forgot the Windows XP Tablet edition...

[Taelron]

Yet again Microsoft finds itself so far behind that it is trying to push something that doesnt equally work well in either of two areas.

They tried shoving a Desktop OS on a Tablet before and it failed miserably. The tablets were too under powered to run desktop applications (nor could most of the tablet processors). We are seeing that again with the ARM/RT versions unable to run the standard x86 software. Developers already balk at writing two versions of their applications for different CPU families. So again Microsoft ignored its past failures.

Instead of learning from one mistake, they are taking the same mistake to the other extreme. You dont want a desktop OS on your tablet? How about a tablet OS on your desktop! Again Microsoft missed the boat. Most people do not have a touch screen monitor at home. And with the economy the way it is, everyone that is out buying a new laptop are looking at the ~$500 to ~$600 range. And those dont have touch screens either. And without a touch interface, Windows 8 gets in the way of itself. You have to install 3rd party software that Microsoft has threatened to block, just to get the system working decently in a touchless setup. And to log out you have to go through three screens and menus. Who's idea was that? I know it wasnt anyone in the security industry. They would make it as easy and fast as possible to shutdown or lock your system. Not impossible.

A tablet is a tablet. A desktop is desktop. How about remembering that and supporting what the world wants instead of trying to force a false single version that doesnt work for either.

And another thing. If I am paying $150 for an operating system, I expect my system to be ad free, not burried in all my screens and apps, getting in my way and annoying me.

Bill Gates, Apple master

[Anonymous Coward]

oh wait...

I must be nobody

[tepples]

consider moving in closer to work

Not everybody lives alone. Moving everybody in the household closer to my work would disadvantage others in the household.

A bus? Come on, nobody can actually get any work done on a bus.

Then I guess I should change my name to Nemo because I must be nobody. I routinely work on hobby programming projects, building a portfolio that could be valuable for landing my next job, during the half hour each way that it takes the city bus to get me to and from my current job. Could you explain how that's necessarily ineffective?

Re:I must be nobody

[aristotle-dude]

consider moving in closer to work

Not everybody lives alone. Moving everybody in the household closer to my work would disadvantage others in the household.

Maybe you should take a more serious look? Living in the suburbs can present some disadvantages for children. They can grow up isolated from other classes of people and lack access to many of the local cultural resources nearby such as museums and concert halls. How can you be certain that your children are being best served? Maybe you could look at a compromise where your commute is shortened a bit and your spouse's commute is lengthened slightly? Why do Americans insist on suburban sprawl and then complain about the commute? You are causing your own problems.

A bus? Come on, nobody can actually get any work done on a bus.

Then I guess I should change my name to Nemo because I must be nobody. I routinely work on hobby programming projects, building a portfolio that could be valuable for landing my next job, during the half hour each way that it takes the city bus to get me to and from my current job. Could you explain how that's necessarily ineffective?

Sorry but you are not really being as effective or efficient with your time as you think you are. Work smarter, not longer. You should be measuring your success based on your throughput and and quality of your work rather that house much time you spent on it. Sorry but you should be working on your hobby stuff either early in the morning before work or later on at night. Alternatively, set aside a few hours on a Saturday. All you have to do is make an appointment for yourself and have the discipline to keep it.

I worked on a side project for a couple of weekends and I was able to bang out a usable version of the product. It spend a few hours a day for two weeks on it.

Re:I must be nobody

[tepples]

Living in the suburbs can present some disadvantages for children.

You have it backwards. You think we live in the suburbs and work in the city. In fact, we live in the city and one of us works in the suburbs as a home nurse for a client on public health insurance assistance. No, I don't see how moving the client's family is an option because I don't see how a long-term care client on public health insurance assistance (the US "Medicaid" program) can afford to buy a house in a higher-density, higher-property-value part of town.

Sorry but you should be working on your hobby stuff either early in the morning before work or later on at night.

So what else should one do during the daily hour of downtime while riding the bus to and from work?

So we've covered Robotron. Let's cover more.

[tepples]

Right thumb, one stick, left thumb, second stick.

I'll grant that using the vector from each thumb's initial point of contact to the current point would probably work great for Robotron 2084 and Robotron clones such as Smash TV, Geometry Wars, and Dead Ops Arcade. What works for games that have, say, jump and fire actions like Mario or Mega Man or Contra or Castlevania? Or attack, special, jump, and guard actions like a fighting game?

Re:So we've covered Robotron. Let's cover more.

[AK Marc]

You can do right-stick moves, left stick is buttons. right stick up=jump. Left move right = shoot/swing.

For contra, have right=move and left=shoot. For Mario, right = move, left = jump.

Or swap as you see fit. Yes, it won't work as well for the games with 6 buttons, but having move back with one of them being block will allow similar functionality.

Re:So we've covered Robotron. Let's cover more.

[tepples]

up=jump

This would break Donkey Kong and Super Mario Bros. 2, where jumping and climbing a ladder or vine have to be distinct.

For Mario, right = move, left = jump.

And what = shoot fireball? Wouldn't putting shoot and jump on the same stick make them mutually exclusive?

As far as I can tell, it'd almost have to end up like a PC game, where each player has to find swipe direction bindings for each action in the game that make sense to him.

Re:So we've covered Robotron. Let's cover more.

[AK Marc]

Yes, we get it, you don't like it. You don't want answers to your questions. You want to hear "games on tablets suck" even though they don't. Have fun with your delusion.

Re:So we've covered Robotron. Let's cover more.

[dzfoo]

You do know that the iPad supports Multi-Touch, right? You could use both thumbs at the same time. In fact, as someone already answered above, some games offer multiple buttons that when pressed performed different functions--exactly like games such as Defender used to do.

For more complex games such as first-person-shooters, it is not uncommon to have one side of the screen offer a "move" control and the other a "tilt head" control. It's even more versatile than that: some games even make the distinction between a press-and-slide (move) and a tap (fire). And it all works wherever your thumb happens to land.

Clearly you have not tried any of this or you would see how obvious and intuitive it can be, and clearly you have no imagination to even conceive its possibility.

So, go ahead and continue believing that iPads suck at anything other than watching cat videos. I don't think anybody would care too much that you are missing all the fun and cool stuff.

        dZ.

WTH?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Bill Gates: iPad Users Are Frustrated They Can't Type Or Create Documents".

Me, I'm Just Frustrated With Editors That Don't Know How To Use Capital Letters Properly.

Super nice?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, except for the relatively massive power usage compared to something like eInk, and the fact that your eyes will most likely explode after two hours of reading it.

2525

[Anonymous Coward]

ummm....
http://ameblo.jp/motohero127/

Read: People want Office on iOS. Make it happen.

[erac3rx]

To me this just boils down to... people want Office on their iOS devices. Rather than make the _hundreds of millions of dollars_ they would earn by delivering versions of Office for iOS, Microsoft has instead been content to use it as a carrot to try to get people to use Windows Phone and Surface devices. Whenever they learn that that strategy is stupid, they will make a ton of money. Until then, they're just leaving money on the table and alienating precisely the people that are trying to give them money. Microsoft: you _are_ Office. Put it on every platform, iOS, Linux, whatever. Get over yourselves. People want Office on whatever device they're using, give it to them and make the money. BTW, Excel on Mac is crap. Fix it. I'm not going to switch away from Mac OS, but I will keep entertaining alternatives to Excel until you quit providing crap versions of Excel on Mac. Office should be awesome on every platform, and available on all platforms. Quit trying to push MS products with Office, just make Office great, and you will make tons of money.

Bill's right about one thing

[anarcobra]

You can't really create spreadsheets on an iPad.
But who are the people trying to do this?
Looking at my friends and family with iPads, this just isn't the use case.
None of them is trying to do office work on an iPad.
They use it for games, checking email and browsing the internet.
I haven't seen a single person at work trying to do his work on an iPad (or a windows tablet for that matter).

no problem here...

[marxzed]

I guess Bill is still drinking the Redmond Coolaid... if you can use an iPad you can use the app store, if you can't work out how to do that... maybe you should send it back for a refund.
There's not exactly a dearth of word processing programs for the iPad, yeh you have to pay to get one of the good ones but hey! you legally have to pay for the bloatware called MS Office (which I would never want on a tablet of any brand or OS). Transferring documents between iPad desktop should be more transparent but that's more slack arsed cloud vendors, including iCloud, than anything inherent with the iPad.
As for the keyboard? I sit in meetings with dozens of people who, like me, have had no problem learning to use the screen keypad efficiently enough for good note taking.
however if I'm the designated minute taker at what I know it's going to be an extra long and verbose meeting I sometimes break out the Bluetooth keyboard (which was brought for controlling my laptop from a distance in training classes, using it with a tablet is just an occasional bonus utility)

iWork

[Anonymous Coward]

Pages is decent, Numbers is good, and Keynote is awesome

You can attach a Keyboard to an ipad too

[goombah99]

Am I missing something in Gates comment? is he saying the apple is bad because it lacks a keyboard when you buy it? well there's lots of KBs for ipads. they are cheap.

Re:You can attach a Keyboard to an ipad too

[Kyusaku Natsume]

If you write in a non alphabetic system the on screen keyboard is leaps an bounds better than a physical keyboard. In properly developed applications like Apple's Numbers the contextual keyboard is much better to data input than any physical counterpart. Only on plain text writing is a better choice an optional physical keyboard. Another benefit, from Apple's POV is that they only offer a single product for a worldwide audience, improving their margins and the management of inventory. There is more behind Apple's mountain of money than being "overpriced" or "fanboys".

This is true

[Murdoch5]

My dad is an iPad user and his one complaint is that he can't save documents.

The Workstation Strikes Back

[emblemparade]

The clock is turning back: we used to call these things "workstations," a name that stood for a powerful but small computer sitting on a desk somewhere, definitely not something that everyone had or needed. We should call them that again: most of us won't need "workstations," but some us do.

The word "PC" has run its course. Tablets and phones are far more "personal" than a big clunky desktop would ever be. So, yeah, I would say that conceptually the PC has died, or rather has become a workstation again.

By the way, I'm one of those people who will always need a workstation... :) But it doesn't mean I begrudge or don't understand the changes in the industry. My mom sure as heck doesn't need a workstation for her email and web browsing.

Re:The Workstation Strikes Back

[Anonymous Coward]

I say take that a step farther. For people who need a "workstation", give them a Xeon chip or chips. Bring back powerful computers. Anyone that can't work on a tablet or laptop actually needs CPU power. It's not the form factor, but the OS and hardware that one needs a desktop for.

As a computer programmer, I need CPU power to compile software and run the convoluted IDEs I use at work. Doing .NET and Java development in vim is possible, but why?

As an OSS developer, I frequently build software applications. I need more power at home than I do at work. It's getting harder and harder to find a computer that's actually fast enough for reasonable build times. AMD's E series is a great example of where the market is failing. Most of the PCs sold at best buy have these lowend chips in them. They're crap. Intel's i3 or atom chips are good enough for consumers who could be better served with a tablet, but a desktop is for real work and it needs to have some kick to it. Gamers want performance too. So do various types of engineers and even graphics artists.

Nope, can't type at all.

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope. See. No typing.

I am sick of your sniveling. Kiss my Linux. Kiss it!

Soviet Era Disinformation

[Anonymous Coward]

B. Gates ... yet again.

The world is better off without William Beatrix Gates III.

Asus Transformer? QuickOffice?

[walterbyrd]

'With Windows 8, Microsoft is trying to gain share in what has been dominated by the iPad-type device. But a lot of those users are frustrated, they can't type, they can't create documents.

Of course you can type and create documents on most tablets a standard KB. Frustrated by *not* having ms-office? That'll be the day.

Um, tell that to my dissertation,

[aussersterne]

written on an iPad.

Um, here are steps.

[aussersterne]

(1) Go to Amazon.com
(2) Search for "Android Tablet"
(3) Buy ICS Android tablet @1GHz/8GB/SD-slot/Dual cameras/7" for $80 or less new
(4) Profit

Bought one for wife, one for each kid. Fast, stable, functional, cheaper than dining out as a family @a diner or casual joint.

Freakishly expensive? Methinks not.

Android 4.2 broke Wiimote Controller

[tepples]

Wii console controllers, including the Classic Controller with dual analog sticks, can be easily connected via bluetooth if you install a free app from the Play store

This application is not compatible with the Nexus 7 or any other device that has received the Android 4.2 update.

Re:Android 4.2 broke Wiimote Controller

[brentrad]

Interesting. Good thing then, that last I looked 4.2 wasn't available for my Transformer then (the original TF101.) Mines still on a Cyanogen version of 4.1.2. I'll definitely wait to upgrade to 4.2 until the Wiimote Controller dev figures out how to work around the issue and updates it for 4.2. Thanks for the info!

Until your needs change

[tepples]

The point is not to pretend that the tablet is something that it is not.

Buying a tablet and using it for what it is is perfectly fine. That is, until your needs change to include something that a tablet is not. At that point, will a PC still be easy to get?

On the bar

[SuperKendall]

The problem with the Apple approach is it lowers the bar for geeky.

I forgot to respond specifically to this point, which is the most incorrect statement in the whole thing.

Basically, it comes down to Apple supports all users well - including the geeky.

Android's problem is that it supports ONLY the geeky, at the expense of all other users.

I own Android devices myself. They have some nice abilities, but I consider it morally wrong to steer anyone who is not technical into buying an Android device. They will be burned at some time in some way, and if you helped convince them to buy an Android device you are in no small part responsible for what happens to them.

Old School

[Anonymous Coward]

What is this document thing? I heard my grandparents talk about documents. One time my grandfather showed me a filing cabinet. I think he used to put his lunch in it. Do you think it used to hold these document things? Wow, do you think people once had enough paper to fill up a filing cabinet? I wish I could go back to the 1900's and see what an office was like.

All I Need is WWW, Flash and E-mail

[Anonymous Coward]

Is that too fucking much to get from non-windows system vendors?

Ubuntu - WWW + e-mail. No fucking flash! SOL

Windows - has all 3 and every tick, parasite and disease extant. Like sailing in a barnacled ship with giant bats infesting the sails and snakes crawling on deck.

Apple - barely does it.

People doing real work aren't using an ipad

[Karmashock]

I'm not saying there aren't lots of things you can't do by clicking boxes on a web portal. But if you're really doing real office work you're not doing that. You're working with spread sheets, large text documents, and lots of other applications.

Tell me this... who wants to program ON the ipad? Anything that involves real work on the machine is a pain in the ass on an ipad. Its fine for light work where things have been streamlined for its use. Otherwise... *laughs*... No.

You and 99% of tablet users

[dutchwhizzman]

Most tablet users own a laptop. They rather use the full laptop to do actual office work and use the tablet for media consumption and touch screen apps. Sales of the different devices clearly show that the vast majority of people isn't interested in hybrids, regardless the OS or applications on them. Windows 8, Android and iOS all have a very limited amount of users working with a tablet-with-keyboard style hardware device.

Re:You and 99% of tablet users

[painandgreed]

Most tablet users own a laptop. They rather use the full laptop to do actual office work and use the tablet for media consumption and touch screen apps. Sales of the different devices clearly show that the vast majority of people isn't interested in hybrids, regardless the OS or applications on them. Windows 8, Android and iOS all have a very limited amount of users working with a tablet-with-keyboard style hardware device.

I'll agree with that. I have a laptop and several desktops that I use for a variety of things. Still, I'm not frustrated with my iPad because it does what I want it to do which is act as my computer when I don't need to do actual office work, or in my case photography work. Of course, if they'd make a hard drive version of the iPad that I could download photos from my camera to while on vacation like I used to be able to do on my iPod, it would mean I'd need a laptop that much less.

Don't Be an Elitist

[Anonymous Coward]

Tablets are absolutely desktop replacements for many people who don't do a significant amount of data entry. Hooking up the parents with an iPad is much less of a headache than having to clean viruses off of their PC every two months because they don't know what they're doing.

I wrote this entire post on an iPad pretty quickly and with no issues so I don't know what you guys are complaining about.

Re: Apple’s global market share is plummetin

[dgatwood]

I was just off by a quarter with my statement. Apple commanded 51.2% of the U.S. smartphone market in the 4Q 2012. In 1Q 2013, Apple was 43.7%, and Android came in at 49.3%. Like I said, they're oscillating back and forth.

its just a lie the reality Appleâ(TM)s global market share is plummeting.

No, it really isn't. Apple's worldwide smartphone percentages this quarter are up 1% from two years previous. You only think sales are plummeting because 2012 was an unusually good year for Apple and the worldwide numbers are down from there.

Either way, whether Apple is or is not regaining the lead is completely beside the point. The point was that Apple's sales are most certainly not collapsing, as was previously claimed. Rather, the phone market is rapidly headed towards a state of equilibrium (and has basically reached that point in the U.S.), as all mature markets eventually do. Neither Android nor Apple is likely to destroy the other at this point. And claims that the iPad is a "dying platform" are completely unsupportable by facts.

BTW, the biggest reason Android growth exceeded iPad growth so much in the past year, to be frank, is that Amazon (at least based on iSuppli's cost estimates) has been dumping their products at or near cost in an effort to sell more eBooks. Eventually, one of two things is likely to happen: Either the U.S. government is going to smack Amazon with antitrust sanctions for dumping, or the other Android makers are going to convince Google to apply pressure to force Amazon to raise their prices back into territory where they actually make a non-negligible profit on their hardware sales.

Either way, though, even without Amazon, the Android hardware market is a race to the bottom in terms of profit margins, because there's basically no other way for phone makers to compete with one another. The feature differences between one Android phone and another are pretty much limited by the state of the art in camera tech, display tech, and battery tech, and none of the phone manufacturers are actually designing that tech, so the only way they have to differentiate themselves from the pack is by undercutting one another.

As a result, although Android is turning over greater sales volume, Apple is making far more money—57% of smartphone profits in Q1 2013—because their hardware and OS are different enough to allow them to compete on more than just price. This is what allows Apple to develop their own OS, rather than relying on Google's charity. In the end, the companies that are making money are the ones who are likely to stick around, not the companies who are selling the most units.

Bill "640k" Gates

[Anonymous Coward]

Please keep your insights to yourself, you've done enough damage already...

Dear Bill,

[Tom]

You are an idiot, and you have no idea what you're talking about.

Yours,

an iPad user who isn't frustrated at all, and can type or create documents just fine.

smartphone as "desktop" works

[Onymous Coward]

An "office" computer and thin client is a different use scenario from a server. Yeah, he did make a bad comparison, but don't let that steer you off into the weeds. "Real work" and "PC replacement" as he termed it is meant to describe "office" activity. I use my desktop to do email and office document handling and to connect to servers. I don't run servers on my desktop (at work).

The point he's making is that the work he does is handled fine by smartphone-level computing power. You just need good Human Interface Devices and display.

http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow_viewer/0,3253,l=208344&a=208341&po=8,00.asp

Gates is right

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why Windows 8 is such a tremendous success...

oh wait...

My tablet has OpenOffice

[DrSkwid]

Methinks Bill is making it up as he goes along.

Re:My tablet has OpenOffice

[marcosdumay]

Yep, that was my tought.

My tablet has a keyboard, Open Office, LaTeX in case I want to use it, GEDA, because you know, writting documents is not the end all be all task, several different programming environmnets, a web server, and quite a lot of other things that I don't even remember that exist untill I need them. I only couldn't still make PostgreSQL run, because Asus compiled their kernel without shared memory support. SQLite runs well, but converting things is a pain.

Now, what does Windows RT do that I'm missing?

I must be too old

[pablo_max]

I do not see any technical reason why this cannot work. Take for example the Lenevo Helix. In tablet mode, the processor is clocked down to something like 7 watts of power draw since the battery life and heat output would make it unusable. However, when it is docked, it goes up to full speed with the help if some additional cooling in the dock which pulls air through the tablet.

I think there are several people like me, who have no interest in buying a tablet for media consumption, but rather for working.
I work in a laboratory environment, in which I create several reports each day, which others and I must sign. My ideal is that I just pull the "tablet" out of the dock and walk over and have the other person sign the report with the stylus.

If I have a tablet, I expect to be able to work on it. I expect to be able to pop in my USB stick or SD card to adjust some photos I took while on holiday.
Why should a tablet not be an ultra portable PC? Why should it only be for consuming?
So, Yes Windows 8 UI is crap. I admit it. BUT, it is STILL windows and with Windows I can create content in a meaningful way that I cannot do on iOS or Android.

I guess I am just too "old" and don't "get it".

That's the point!

[pablo_max]

Because a fully functional PC is for content creation while a tablet is for content consumption. And many people don't understand the difference.

That is exactly his point! Not everyone wants to ONLY consume! That is the point of the Windows tablet. I can create. Will the battery last as long as an iPad? No, of course not. Will it be as powerful as a desktop? Again, no.
Will it give me the same experience as an ultrabook? Yes. So, why not? Why are you against having one device in which you can consume AND create?

Use Skydrive

[Giffut]

Using Skydrive via Safari lets you create MS Office documents. I do it all the time and find it quite useful.

Bill Gates Trolling

[Anonymous Coward]

iPad users are NOT frustrated about not being about to type or create documents, or create content. Nothing could be further from the truth. iPad users have gleefully accepted their fate because they understand that their masters at Apple do not intend for them to have that capability.

Google Android ranked top smartphone platfom

[tuppe666]

Apple commanded 51.2% of the U.S. smartphone market in the 4Q 2012

No it doesn't.

http://www.comscore.com/Insights/Press_Releases/2013/5/comScore_Reports_March_2013_U.S._Smartphone_Subscriber_Market_Share

"Google Android ranked as the top smartphone platform with 52 percent market share (71.1 million subscribers), while Apple’s share increased 2.7 percentage points to 39 percent (53.3 million subscribers)"

I am not sure where you are getting your data, but its different from everyone else, considering America is Apples strongest (only) market it does not look good,
I

Re:Google Android ranked top smartphone platfom

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem with these numbers is that they consider anything running Android a "smartphone", which is most certainly not the case. A large chunk of Android's marketshare is from crap phones that can barely run a browser.

When I see someone on the street or in a restaurant using a smart phone it is far, far more often an iPhone than anything else. Maybe they make up their marketshare through basement-dwelling assholes like yourself??

Still, we all know you're a shill. You lie out your ass, spread FUD and you karma whore just so you can mod down anything remotely anti-Google. It's people like you who make me want to never own an Android device.

Re:Google Android ranked top smartphone platfom

[dgatwood]

I'll match your citation with mine. According to Kantar Worldpanel ComTech, iOS was the top-selling platform in Q4 2012, maintaining 51.2% of the market.

So either your data is wrong or mine is.

Frustrated Customer

[Dreyden]

Costumer are frustrated Microsoft can't create a proper application for iPad for years.

Then why does the Surface Pro have a tiny screen!?

[Anonymous Coward]

Okay, so the iPad sucks for creating content with its tiny 9" screen. So, why is MS pushing the Surface Pro with a tiny 11" screen? Any screen under 15" is bad for anything that involves typing and reading on the screen. iPads are great for photos or videos, but are awful for text. Cheap netbooks have already failed as a market segment. So why is MS betting their future on the Surface Pro? (And Surface RT, but it's already mostly failed.) Apple used to be the go-to company for professional quality content creation tools, both with their MBP line and their software. No longer - they've killed the 17" MBP, and crippled their video editing software. So why doesn't MS create the ultimate content creation laptop?

I think the point is

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the point is, and Microsoft don't get this, is that people DO want to create, type, etc on their Tablet devices, but that they would not want, or need, Microsoft Office to do that, any more than you'd want a Saturn V rocket to send a satellite into low earth orbit.

Conclusion

[slash.jit]

What Bill Gates is saying is that right now there is a very small market segment for MS for targeting people who want to use office without carrying a laptop and that if Apple or any developer can create a competing office product which also supports MS format it can kill Surface totally because then Surface has nothing to compete against iPad.

No one seems to remember....

[Shadowmist]

.... that in the days before the IPad and Android tablets, there WERE tablets that were being sold in stores such as CompUSA and Best Buy and others. And these were tablets that were essentially scrunched down laptops, even to the inclusion of the occaisonal keyboard.

.

.And what did most of the units do.....? Gather dust as they lay unsold on bins. As relatedm there may be about 5 or ten people where the tablet as scrunched down laptop was a perfectly viable solution.

.

.For the bulk of the market however these units were an absolute failure in terms of the user experience, so much so that most folks had written off the tablet as of being any good for anything other than a few specialised users.

.

.And then came iOS and Android, UI's organised around touch, and the recognition is that the primary purpose of a tablet is that of a third space, a unit for consumption of data and content, rather than creation. It's this revelation and revolution alone which made tablets into the force they are today.

.

But doesn't that ...

[Rambo Tribble]

... just put iPad users in the same boat as MS Office users after a new release?

Re:Read: People want Office on iOS. Make it happen

[MrNiceguy_KS]

This. And seriously, don't do a half-assed job of it either. Don't try to find the "One True Interface" that will work for all platforms. Make your iOS and Android version with a touch-friendly interface. Now, and this is very important: Don't use the touch-friendly interface on the desktop version!! If you want to have it as an option, fine. Maybe even an option to automatically switch to touch mode when there's no mouse, but stop trying to cram a touch interface down the throats of your desktop users. That's a pretty sure way to guarantee that a whole lot of business users will hold of on upgrading as long as possible, and when it comes to Office, business users are your bread and butter.

I think that the DOJ would have been doing Microsoft a favor if they had forcibly broken up the company into separate OS and Office divisions years ago. The Office division would be free to realize, "Hey, lots of people have iPads, let's make a really great version of Office for iOS." Instead, Microsoft looks at the tablet market and thinks, "Hey, people are buying tablets. We should make a tablet too, and try to use our Office dominance to convince people to buy our tablet instead of Apple's or Samsung's or Amazon's."

The hand blocks the player's view

[tepples]

Walking around? Seems to me that sliding your finger slowly around the screen along a viable path should work for that.

Sliding along a movement path might work in a game that doesn't scroll because the scenery acts as a frame of reference for the gesture. I don't see how it would work so well in a scrolling game where the camera follows the player's character. Besides, the hand blocks the player's view of the action. Or is the fact that the hand blocks the player's view of the action intended to be part of the challenge?

Touchpad?

[Hydian]

My Touchpad has had those capabilities for a couple of years now.

Not that I ever use it for that. A tablet just isn't the right platform for that kind of usage IMHO.

I want to try any of this

[tepples]

some games offer multiple buttons that when pressed performed different functions

The problem is hitting multiple buttons without looking at them. That's easy on a gamepad and hard on flat glass.

some games even make the distinction between a press-and-slide (move) and a tap (fire).

That'd be fine if there were some sort of standard for what each press-and-slide direction for the left thumb and each press-and-slide direction for the right thumb is supposed to do.

Clearly you have not tried any of this

By "tried" do you mean from the perspective of an end user playing well-known games or from the perspective of a developer play-testing his own work? I will try it once I find a list of reviews of Android games that implement this control method well. The only Android game named in this discussion as a good example was Cordy 2, which brentrad mentioned in this comment. Someone else recommended one of the Sonic 4 Episodes, but it just force-closed on my Nexus 7.

John Moltz nailed this one

[alispguru]

Bill Gates frustrated because Microsoft is irrelevant in mobile.

Multi-window

[tepples]

Does the operating system that came with your Asus Transformer Pad support opening two applications side-by-side, even if the applications are capable of working with a phone-sized window? I was under the impression that this feature was exclusive to Samsung devices, and even then only for applications that Samsung has approved for multi-window mode because the Android CDD specifies that applications are allowed to assume that the screen size shall remain fixed after installation.

Two things the iPad needs

[swb]

Thereâ(TM)s two things the iPad is missing that would greatly extend its flexibility.

The first thing would be a central file system, a place similar to âoePhotosâ where apps could load and save documents of an arbitrary type and where other applications could open them. The current file sharing system of âoeOpen Inâ is unwieldy and creates a lot of copies. Appleâ(TM)s big on sandboxing, so there may be some requirement when saving a document to make the user explicitly save in the common store as opposed to an appâ(TM)s private store, as well as granting an application rights to access the common file store. Thatâ(TM)s the simple version; the more complex version might involve external storage but I doubt Apple will go there any time soon without extreme pressure.

The other thing would be Bluetooth mouse support. Some UI operations may not translate to a mouse, which is fine, but I donâ(TM)t think the touch screen interface is as precise or flexible as a mouse is. I have a bunch of drawing apps for my iPad that seemed promising, but the touch interface just makes it too hard to do much beyond the most basic drawings. The same is true of selecting text.

A lot of people are hung up on making a tablet too much like a PC or scream âoeI hate apple, the iPad is stupid, even you wish it was the laptop you should have bought.â I think this is silly â" I think a certain amount of convergence between laptops and tablets is inevitable, and it seems likely that in the future there will be more devices that look and act like tablets but transform into laptops, with hybrid UIs that can be touch based or mouse based, and way into the future it seems likely that phones will be our computers with how we use them dictated by what devices we have them connected to.

Windows Phones?

[ponraul]

Does this mean we're going to start seeing Windows phones with hardware keyboards? I hope so. That would cause some market pressure for Android phone manufactures to start selling phones with keyboards again. Until then, I'm stuck with an HTC G2.

NOPE!

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear Bill,

As an iPad user I can tell you, you are full of sh*t. I can both type at over 45 WPM and create documents on my iPad. As a large number of people in the world have iPads, I think they all know what does and doesn't frustrate them about iPads, and the supposedly inability to type on them is not one in most cases. I can also inform you that I can not type or create documents on a Windows tablet, because I simply don't need one, I already have an iPad that can do that!

So go shove your Windows Tablet and Propaganda in the same place as Windows 95, Vista and Windows 8 and pull the chain!

Yours with best wishes,

An iPad owner.

Gates never did get it

[colonel spalding]

He was the master of leveraging monopolies and pushing crappy products on dimwitted comptuer users but he's never had a clue as to what people wanted and creative enough to put out great products. Check your history. Gates thought the internet was a passing fad. It was only thru his crappy windows that he embedded into Win* it forced people to use it. Anyone in their right mind now switches to Chrome or other better alternatives.

Programming homework, for instance

[tepples]

If you have to chose one or the other, then yes that would be true. For many (many) people, you can have both.

Many (many) != all (all). A mom who just bought her kid an iPad isn't going to like it when the kid takes a programming class in high school and mom discovers that the kid won't be able to do programming homework on the iPad because it uses a language or library that neither Codea nor Python for iOS supports.

Re:Programming homework, for instance

[jon3k]

I don't understand. I said originally that many people can have/use more than 1 device. You saying that some can't doesn't make me wrong, and it doesn't make the people who can afford both somehow incorrect. What is your point exactly?

Re:Programming homework, for instance

[tepples]

I was trying to agree with you that it's possible for many people to afford and use more than one device. But many does not mean all, and a lot of people can't afford more than one device. As more home users switch to a tablet as the most commonly used device, a lot of people aren't going to see the point of buying a PC at all. This means a device suitable for doing one's programming homework will become harder to find.

Re:And...This is Bill Gates talking, right?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is Bill Gates talking, right? I mean he's the guy who hired Steve Balmer to fun Microsoft after he, Billy-boy, left. Well, his best choice has run Microsoft into the ground--and he wants us to take him seriously? Where does he live now?

Not even with your dubious source

[tuppe666]

I'll match your citation with mine. According to Kantar Worldpanel ComTech, iOS was the top-selling platform in Q4 2012, maintaining 51.2% of the market.

So either your data is wrong or mine is.

...no even at your Worldpanel ComTech this is from last week. "With nearly half (49.3%) of smartphone sales, Android remains the top selling operating system, but saw only slight growth compared to the same period last year, and is down versus the 3 months ending February 2013 (-1.9%). iOS remains in second place with 43.7% of smartphone sales, down throughout Q1 2013." http://www.kantarworldpanel.com/global/News/Windows-sees-steady-growth-in-Q1-2013

Look everyone agrees Apple is number 2

Gates is in Denial. Ipad users have keyboads

[lsatenstein]

Gates erred when he said Ipad users cant prepare text.

My daughter and kids use the ipad and the cover becomes the keyboard. No, they do not write 30 page documents with it, but they do write emails, post to Facebook, etc.

The only time they open a computer with w7 is to play games.

This is the reason I'll only buy an Apple tablet

[Anonymous Coward]

...when it can run Mac OS. iOS is a joke, and that's coming from a guy who's only "switch" to a Mac was from an Apple II.

iPad's keyboard also lacks springiness...

[girlinatrainingbra]

Re: I will note that the iPad's keyboard also lacks springiness and tactile feedback.
.
Touche`, and well said!