Contact with stuff like human shit (going to the bathroom doesn't count), dead bodies, or someone with leprosy is what makes one unclean.
so everyone working for the sewer department of a large metropolitan city is biblically unclean? you'd better tell some of the avid churchgoers in their ranks that they're screwed.
I dunno. with enough capital (which is how all small business start), you could easily start a municipal broadband service of your own. you could use cable, 802.11g, or multiple other ways to obselete the larger cable companies with smaller, faster companies offering better service. as long as it's standardized and fairly transparent to the user, the bar of entry is damn low. and all you'd have to do is pay the city for use of the land to run the infrastructure.
Now, if the government were to eminent-domain all the poles/wires, and then auction them back out to competitive phone companies, you might have a point. However, I doubt that is going to happen.
uh. sorta already happened. every square foot in your city is owned by the city itself. it has the allodial title to every plot of land within its city limits. you may own the house on the land, but the land belongs to them. as such, they're allowed to contract with private companies to install and own sections of public utilities. Usually, the phone company pays a "lease" on the footage of land used to the city.
so yes, by playing the games of the city ownership, you really could just lay your own infrastructure.
That's a fun comparison, but the communist manifestos claims were made in the midst of the industrial revolution, almost 2 centuries ago, when child labour was common and workers lives and health were disregarded.
The origins of the idea does not negate the validity of the comparison. What Marx or Engels, or anyone else for that matter, cares about western civilization has no bearing on the comparison of the New Deal to The Communist Manifesto. nor does it lessen the point: the major measurable tenets of socialism have been established in the United States of America for many years now.
The New Deal is no longer in force in the States, though many of the advantages remain (though far less so than in many EU countries).
I would have commented that the fact socialism is being replaced in America is a benefit, if I wasn't so afraid of what it's being replaced with.
as to the United States's implementation of social programs being somehow disingenuous, I fail to see where logical comparisons of facts can somehow be anything but candid. the Manifesto lists the path to accomplishing socialism, and the new deal mirrors it quite well.
Confusing socialist with liberal with communist does nothing but muddy debate and leaves us using labels and accusations (like those in the grandparent's post).
your assumption of confusion on my part is a bit striking. I do not confuse socialism, communism, and liberals (I can't say liberalism, because the liberal philosophy isn't really liberal). the liberal left is about social responsibility and liberalism, but fiscally subordinate. communism and socialism are just liberal policies applied with a totalitarian mindset. the main difference between socialism and communism would be the extent of inherent totalitarianism.
my dislike for something does not prove my ignorance, nor does it make my comparison any less valid.
Very short-term memory. Bands like Kraftwerk and some of the bands to follow New Wave in the 1980s did this much more significantly...
he did mention the last 15 years, so since 1990 or so, Kraftwerk hasn't done anything particulary influential. hell, Gary Numan has been more influential in that time.
Kraftwerk (and most 80's new wave) was only really responsible for the EBM branch of industrial music anyway. the rest took what they liked, and moved on to a harder sound.
MM is only well known because they were the first band to sign to TR's new label, when TR was still an active and visible performer. Whoever he had signed first was garaunteed to suceed.
yeah, because we're all hearing a lot from Godhead these days. for every Eminem or Marilyn Manson, there are first bands that blow real hard.
this brings up the next point: Marilyn Manson only gained his initial exposure due to Reznor. if what you said was true, then Manson would have stopped selling records after Antichrist Superstar (which was the last record Reznor had anything to do with). the fact that Marilyn Manson is still able to pump out a multi-platinum record pretty much negates your theory.
Which is ridiculous with the extremely large gaps between releases...
apparently, your idea of influence and importance is the ability to create and move product as fast as possible. lemme know how your collection of "influential" backstreet boys albums are doing.
He made 2.5 good albums, and a bunch of remixes of that small amount of material, and coasted on it for years and years and yaers.
2.5? this means you're not counting "broken" as an album (which is complete crap. it stands quite well on its own), and you're probably one that couldn't wrap your head around The Fragile. but that's allright, you're bringing up the "lack of material" red herring again. nevermind that there are seventeen releases from the band...
how many solid albums did Led Zepplin make? how many albums have Tool released? how many albums did Jimi Hendrix release?
the answer is: "not very many". productivity does not equal brilliance.
Well: a) as you admit, it's not TR's work...b) you admit that it's bad...and c) it's not even remotely original...Hell, Michael Jackson made a long movie for Moonwalker.
a) House on Haunted Hill is someone shamelessly stealing from Mark Romanek's visuals. b) it's not bad because it's derivative. it's bad because of execution. c) Trent Reznor didn't have anything to do with it, so comparing it to MJ's movie is sorta pointless.
How on earth could you think so? I can name dozens of other artists more influential on other artists and the music industry
really? so most Nu Metal, Emo, Hardcore, Stoner pop (Incubus/Red Hot Chili Peppers), industrial metal (Rammstein, etc), and even Mall Punk (Sum 41, Blink 182) would list someone else more influential than Trent Reznor? I highly doubt it. many are more innovative, but most aren't anywhere near as influential anymore.
So what has TR done that's so influential? Made 2.5 good albums, and then just wandered off to do next to nothing for years and years...how is that influential??
hrm. 17 releases, all of high quality. multiple movie scores (Lost Highway, 1 Hour Photo, Natural Born Killers). multiple game scores (Doom 3 - score is available online - and Quake). responsible for many other musicians making it big. responsible for the sound of many different genres.
yeah. I'd say that's fairly influential. in fact, that's almost David Bowie levels of influence. and he thinks Reznor is influential as well.
Death really only influences a very small subset of death metal bands, especially those that gravitate towards (and draw from) the Florida Death Metal scene. Their small foray into progressive experimentation, and later return to technical death metal (which was very overrated) isn't exactly the best resume to declare Schuldiner as influential as, say, Kerry King of Slayer (whose fingerprint is evident in nearly every genre of metal), or even John Petrucci of Dream Theater. This is not to say that Chuck Schuldiner, or Muhammed Suicmez (who is essentially Yngwie Malmsteen doing death metal) were in any way untalented; simply that they aren't as influential as you say they are.
especially when being compared to Trent Reznor.
he's not exactly the father of industrial music (that label could either be attributed to any member of Throbbing Gristle or Al Jourgensen), but Reznor done more to push the genre into mainstream. his influence on most popular music (good or bad) has been striking; everyone from Nu Metal staples to Emo/Screamo kids list NIN as one of the main musical influences. most contempory mainstream metal bands (Killswitch Engage, Cradle of Filth, etc) will tell you they have a large NIN collection. I even read Flea from Red Hot Chili Peppers list NIN's "The Fragile" as one of his top 10 albums of all time.
This is what differentiates Reznor from the two you have listed: Reznor transcends boundaries of genre. he may not have the most complex melodies, but his style is unique. even if Suicmez is satisfied with his new band, he'll never be accessible enough to truly further music.
let's assume that the average Everquest junkie spends 6 hours a day indulging in his habit. over the course of twelve months, this comes to about 2,184 hours, or 91 days of everquest.
that's 91 days of life sucked from just one person every year. multiply that by the hundreds of thousands of people who play MMORPG's, there's a mind-boggling lack of productivity and wasted time. and we're all sure these people would have been doing something much more productive with their time if they weren't playing these games.
being we're now stringing a spammer up for wasting our collective seconds, I think it's proper we start taking out some of these other lowlifes in the world. I say we start trying the producers of MMORPG's in criminal courts, and impose similar jail sentences. not only do these criminals waste people's time, but they actually have the audacity to charge these people for the inconvenience.
and then we can start with television executives. imagine the convictions we could get there!
that'd be a great idea......if that was how the legal system worked.
see, in the real world, people are usually tried and convicted for breaking a law. the difficulty of getting caught has no bearing on the length of punishment. the damages have a much higher bearing.
but all of this shouldn't matter for spam, because nobody was ever killed because of spam. nobody's property was ever seized because of spam. nobody's constitutional rights were ever violated because of spam.
oh totally. I think we should impose heavy jail sentences for antisocial behaviors, whether it be spammers, homeless people, public drunks, or guys that walk down the street shouting at themselves. they just gotta go.
how dare those spammers want to make money! it's not like the people who buy the products should be given equal blame for making spam profitable!
It is not a criminal activity to compell someone to spend money.
I'm sure those engineers that are being paid to spend their days in and out fighting spam would prefer to be unemployed, and the spam problem solved.
I'm sure the vendors making the hardware are oh so upset that people are buying more hardware to deal with the spam "problem"
I hate spam and spammers more than anything, but I also respect the United States Code, and this law, when challenged at the federal level, will more than likely be shot down. and then people will blame "activist judges".
it's your choice to use email as well. unless something changed while I was asleep, and we somehow gained a constitutional right to spam-free inboxes, this should have been tried in civil court.
but it wasn't, and now a person is going to jail for costing corporations money, by employing extra sysadmins to filter out spam.
which is why this should have been tried in civil court, instead of criminal. last I checked, wasting the time of a business was not a criminal matter. nor was the amount of money they spent dealing with him.
if people were put in jail for costing people money and wasting people's time, the developers of every MMORPG are screwed.
I'm disappointed that both of you are ashamed of your knowledge of Transformers characters. is this some sort of geek repentance? embrace your knowledge.
1) I have gnome 2.10 on my machine. unmasked and compiled. funny how even debian unstable still has gnome 2.8... well, most of it, anyway. according to Jeordi Mallach, not all of 2.8 has been integrated into unstable as of yet. oh, you must be thinking Ubuntu = Debian.
2) there's a graphical version of etc-update that doesn't suck.
3) version conflicts are such a rarity, that it's almost laughable to bring them up. when conflicts are found (i.e. incompatible library versions), they're slotted, so that the version required by $Package doesn't get affected.
perhaps you should look into changing that to -O2, or maybe -Os. you see, -O3 actually makes binaries a tad larger than the other two, which will only give you a considerable speedup if you have a lot of RAM in that system. otherwise, doing -Os would be your best bet.
I've been berated on multiple occasions for using -O3 without knowing the true benefits and setbacks. they were right to berate me.
well, first I went with this part: This is largely a group of Fabians out to preserve the social hierarchy. It's members include everyone from Steve Case to Jack Valenti. Anyway, I just thought you should know who that even if it is Bill advocating the ideas this time, he is really just the spokeman for a larger group.
first sentence mentions a group that most people aren't aware of, and then the second sentence affiliates that group with certain unsavory people well-known to those who read slashdot.
the second article you linked was written to expose the inner workings of some organization with an agenda, but it never really answered any questions. the first footnote of that article was clearly designed to incite worry, and thoughts of conspiracy.
the fact that I think critically is what made me unable to be scared of such an article. if anything, it made me feel that the Aspen Group in question was more benign than it probably really is. that's just bad journalism when the intended audience gets the opposite reaction than the writer intended.
I read both of the pages, though I only read the front page of the actual aspen institute. that said, I really did try to be scared by the second article. the problem is, I wasn't. I've read far more damning articles about other topics. the only two things I could really conjure up from the second article as alarming were the "thousand points of light" reference, which popped up much later in Bush Sr.'s speeches, and the notion of segregation in the schools by intelligence.
the problem is that the first one is fairly obvious; we're moving closer and closer to a compulsory consumerist state with every passing year. unfortunately, outside of grabbing a gun and locking my family in a well-supplied house (oh, and voting), there's nothing I can do. that is truly how democratic our society has become; we're moving en-masse to a type of government nobody really wants, but everyone's too stupid to fight against.
second point is a little disheartening, until you realize all high schools do this already. those that are good in academics or sports are always put on a higher level than those who simply wade in the pools of educational mediocrity. and the social environment is actually _negative_ when it comes to people actually there to learn.
I don't really like the idea of a few billionaires being in charge of the way my children are taught, but they're far better than the current administration.
Slashdot Mirror
Contact with stuff like human shit (going to the bathroom doesn't count), dead bodies, or someone with leprosy is what makes one unclean.
so everyone working for the sewer department of a large metropolitan city is biblically unclean? you'd better tell some of the avid churchgoers in their ranks that they're screwed.
I dunno. with enough capital (which is how all small business start), you could easily start a municipal broadband service of your own. you could use cable, 802.11g, or multiple other ways to obselete the larger cable companies with smaller, faster companies offering better service. as long as it's standardized and fairly transparent to the user, the bar of entry is damn low. and all you'd have to do is pay the city for use of the land to run the infrastructure.
Now, if the government were to eminent-domain all the poles/wires, and then auction them back out to competitive phone companies, you might have a point. However, I doubt that is going to happen.
uh. sorta already happened. every square foot in your city is owned by the city itself. it has the allodial title to every plot of land within its city limits. you may own the house on the land, but the land belongs to them. as such, they're allowed to contract with private companies to install and own sections of public utilities. Usually, the phone company pays a "lease" on the footage of land used to the city.
so yes, by playing the games of the city ownership, you really could just lay your own infrastructure.
so, how does the beer taste?
it's a shame you couldn't have refuted any of the points I made, instead of simply commenting on the parts that were less than essential to the post.
I'm still looking forward to how anything you've refuted makes Trent Reznor less influential.
That's a fun comparison, but the communist manifestos claims were made in the midst of the industrial revolution, almost 2 centuries ago, when child labour was common and workers lives and health were disregarded.
The origins of the idea does not negate the validity of the comparison. What Marx or Engels, or anyone else for that matter, cares about western civilization has no bearing on the comparison of the New Deal to The Communist Manifesto. nor does it lessen the point: the major measurable tenets of socialism have been established in the United States of America for many years now.
The New Deal is no longer in force in the States, though many of the advantages remain (though far less so than in many EU countries).
I would have commented that the fact socialism is being replaced in America is a benefit, if I wasn't so afraid of what it's being replaced with.
as to the United States's implementation of social programs being somehow disingenuous, I fail to see where logical comparisons of facts can somehow be anything but candid. the Manifesto lists the path to accomplishing socialism, and the new deal mirrors it quite well.
Confusing socialist with liberal with communist does nothing but muddy debate and leaves us using labels and accusations (like those in the grandparent's post).
your assumption of confusion on my part is a bit striking. I do not confuse socialism, communism, and liberals (I can't say liberalism, because the liberal philosophy isn't really liberal). the liberal left is about social responsibility and liberalism, but fiscally subordinate. communism and socialism are just liberal policies applied with a totalitarian mindset. the main difference between socialism and communism would be the extent of inherent totalitarianism.
my dislike for something does not prove my ignorance, nor does it make my comparison any less valid.
Very short-term memory. Bands like Kraftwerk and some of the bands to follow New Wave in the 1980s did this much more significantly...
he did mention the last 15 years, so since 1990 or so, Kraftwerk hasn't done anything particulary influential. hell, Gary Numan has been more influential in that time.
Kraftwerk (and most 80's new wave) was only really responsible for the EBM branch of industrial music anyway. the rest took what they liked, and moved on to a harder sound.
MM is only well known because they were the first band to sign to TR's new label, when TR was still an active and visible performer. Whoever he had signed first was garaunteed to suceed.
yeah, because we're all hearing a lot from Godhead these days. for every Eminem or Marilyn Manson, there are first bands that blow real hard.
this brings up the next point: Marilyn Manson only gained his initial exposure due to Reznor. if what you said was true, then Manson would have stopped selling records after Antichrist Superstar (which was the last record Reznor had anything to do with). the fact that Marilyn Manson is still able to pump out a multi-platinum record pretty much negates your theory.
Which is ridiculous with the extremely large gaps between releases...
apparently, your idea of influence and importance is the ability to create and move product as fast as possible. lemme know how your collection of "influential" backstreet boys albums are doing.
He made 2.5 good albums, and a bunch of remixes of that small amount of material, and coasted on it for years and years and yaers.
2.5? this means you're not counting "broken" as an album (which is complete crap. it stands quite well on its own), and you're probably one that couldn't wrap your head around The Fragile. but that's allright, you're bringing up the "lack of material" red herring again. nevermind that there are seventeen releases from the band...
how many solid albums did Led Zepplin make?
how many albums have Tool released?
how many albums did Jimi Hendrix release?
the answer is: "not very many". productivity does not equal brilliance.
Well: a) as you admit, it's not TR's work...b) you admit that it's bad...and c) it's not even remotely original...Hell, Michael Jackson made a long movie for Moonwalker.
a) House on Haunted Hill is someone shamelessly stealing from Mark Romanek's visuals.
b) it's not bad because it's derivative. it's bad because of execution.
c) Trent Reznor didn't have anything to do with it, so comparing it to MJ's movie is sorta pointless.
How on earth could you think so? I can name dozens of other artists more influential on other artists and the music industry
really? so most Nu Metal, Emo, Hardcore, Stoner pop (Incubus/Red Hot Chili Peppers), industrial metal (Rammstein, etc), and even Mall Punk (Sum 41, Blink 182) would list someone else more influential than Trent Reznor? I highly doubt it. many are more innovative, but most aren't anywhere near as influential anymore.
So what has TR done that's so influential? Made 2.5 good albums, and then just wandered off to do next to nothing for years and years...how is that influential??
hrm. 17 releases, all of high quality. multiple movie scores (Lost Highway, 1 Hour Photo, Natural Born Killers). multiple game scores (Doom 3 - score is available online - and Quake). responsible for many other musicians making it big. responsible for the sound of many different genres.
yeah. I'd say that's fairly influential. in fact, that's almost David Bowie levels of influence. and he thinks Reznor is influential as well.
Death really only influences a very small subset of death metal bands, especially those that gravitate towards (and draw from) the Florida Death Metal scene. Their small foray into progressive experimentation, and later return to technical death metal (which was very overrated) isn't exactly the best resume to declare Schuldiner as influential as, say, Kerry King of Slayer (whose fingerprint is evident in nearly every genre of metal), or even John Petrucci of Dream Theater. This is not to say that Chuck Schuldiner, or Muhammed Suicmez (who is essentially Yngwie Malmsteen doing death metal) were in any way untalented; simply that they aren't as influential as you say they are.
especially when being compared to Trent Reznor.
he's not exactly the father of industrial music (that label could either be attributed to any member of Throbbing Gristle or Al Jourgensen), but Reznor done more to push the genre into mainstream. his influence on most popular music (good or bad) has been striking; everyone from Nu Metal staples to Emo/Screamo kids list NIN as one of the main musical influences. most contempory mainstream metal bands (Killswitch Engage, Cradle of Filth, etc) will tell you they have a large NIN collection. I even read Flea from Red Hot Chili Peppers list NIN's "The Fragile" as one of his top 10 albums of all time.
This is what differentiates Reznor from the two you have listed: Reznor transcends boundaries of genre. he may not have the most complex melodies, but his style is unique. even if Suicmez is satisfied with his new band, he'll never be accessible enough to truly further music.
one word simultaneously shoots down your submission, and asks for more information:
who?
that's neat anecdotal evidence.
and then there are actual reports on city, state and federal governments saving money by switching to linux.
I can say 100% firsthand that government offices are only as efficient as the people working for them, no matter how good the tool may be.
here's a fun thing to do on a slow saturday (like today):
1) find a copy of the communist manifesto, scroll down until you reach the ordered list of tasks to accomplish.
2) find a summary of the accomplishments of Franklin Delano Roosevelt's "New Deal".
3) compare and contrast.
the united states is more democratic and socialist than you would think.
More math time!!!
let's assume that the average Everquest junkie spends 6 hours a day indulging in his habit. over the course of twelve months, this comes to about 2,184 hours, or 91 days of everquest.
that's 91 days of life sucked from just one person every year. multiply that by the hundreds of thousands of people who play MMORPG's, there's a mind-boggling lack of productivity and wasted time. and we're all sure these people would have been doing something much more productive with their time if they weren't playing these games.
being we're now stringing a spammer up for wasting our collective seconds, I think it's proper we start taking out some of these other lowlifes in the world. I say we start trying the producers of MMORPG's in criminal courts, and impose similar jail sentences. not only do these criminals waste people's time, but they actually have the audacity to charge these people for the inconvenience.
and then we can start with television executives. imagine the convictions we could get there!
that'd be a great idea... ...if that was how the legal system worked.
see, in the real world, people are usually tried and convicted for breaking a law. the difficulty of getting caught has no bearing on the length of punishment. the damages have a much higher bearing.
but all of this shouldn't matter for spam, because nobody was ever killed because of spam. nobody's property was ever seized because of spam. nobody's constitutional rights were ever violated because of spam.
can we say "not valid for criminal court"?
oh totally.
I think we should impose heavy jail sentences for antisocial behaviors, whether it be spammers, homeless people, public drunks, or guys that walk down the street shouting at themselves. they just gotta go.
how dare those spammers want to make money! it's not like the people who buy the products should be given equal blame for making spam profitable!
eek. apparently the bold tag didn't close. sorry about that.
repeat after me:
It is not a criminal activity to compell someone to spend money.
I'm sure those engineers that are being paid to spend their days in and out fighting spam would prefer to be unemployed, and the spam problem solved.
I'm sure the vendors making the hardware are oh so upset that people are buying more hardware to deal with the spam "problem"
I hate spam and spammers more than anything, but I also respect the United States Code, and this law, when challenged at the federal level, will more than likely be shot down. and then people will blame "activist judges".
you're serious?
it's your choice to use email as well. unless something changed while I was asleep, and we somehow gained a constitutional right to spam-free inboxes, this should have been tried in civil court.
but it wasn't, and now a person is going to jail for costing corporations money, by employing extra sysadmins to filter out spam.
yeah. I think that's worth 9 years, don't you?
which is why this should have been tried in civil court, instead of criminal. last I checked, wasting the time of a business was not a criminal matter. nor was the amount of money they spent dealing with him.
if people were put in jail for costing people money and wasting people's time, the developers of every MMORPG are screwed.
I'm disappointed that both of you are ashamed of your knowledge of Transformers characters. is this some sort of geek repentance? embrace your knowledge.
1) I have gnome 2.10 on my machine. unmasked and compiled. funny how even debian unstable still has gnome 2.8... well, most of it, anyway. according to Jeordi Mallach, not all of 2.8 has been integrated into unstable as of yet. oh, you must be thinking Ubuntu = Debian.
2) there's a graphical version of etc-update that doesn't suck.
3) version conflicts are such a rarity, that it's almost laughable to bring them up. when conflicts are found (i.e. incompatible library versions), they're slotted, so that the version required by $Package doesn't get affected.
And my cflags are: -mcpu=athlon-xp -O3 -pipe.
perhaps you should look into changing that to -O2, or maybe -Os. you see, -O3 actually makes binaries a tad larger than the other two, which will only give you a considerable speedup if you have a lot of RAM in that system. otherwise, doing -Os would be your best bet.
I've been berated on multiple occasions for using -O3 without knowing the true benefits and setbacks. they were right to berate me.
or, you stick with Gentoo, and just start using Project Chinstrap, which downloads binaries of the most popular packages in the distribution.
nice troll, though.
because you used the word ironic to mean something it doesn't, your grammar card has been revoked.
incidentally, you will be receiving Alanis Morrissette's "Jagged Little Pill" CD in the mail within 4-6 weeks.
well, first I went with this part:
This is largely a group of Fabians out to preserve the social hierarchy. It's members include everyone from Steve Case to Jack Valenti. Anyway, I just thought you should know who that even if it is Bill advocating the ideas this time, he is really just the spokeman for a larger group.
first sentence mentions a group that most people aren't aware of, and then the second sentence affiliates that group with certain unsavory people well-known to those who read slashdot.
the second article you linked was written to expose the inner workings of some organization with an agenda, but it never really answered any questions. the first footnote of that article was clearly designed to incite worry, and thoughts of conspiracy.
the fact that I think critically is what made me unable to be scared of such an article. if anything, it made me feel that the Aspen Group in question was more benign than it probably really is. that's just bad journalism when the intended audience gets the opposite reaction than the writer intended.
I read both of the pages, though I only read the front page of the actual aspen institute. that said, I really did try to be scared by the second article. the problem is, I wasn't. I've read far more damning articles about other topics. the only two things I could really conjure up from the second article as alarming were the "thousand points of light" reference, which popped up much later in Bush Sr.'s speeches, and the notion of segregation in the schools by intelligence.
the problem is that the first one is fairly obvious; we're moving closer and closer to a compulsory consumerist state with every passing year. unfortunately, outside of grabbing a gun and locking my family in a well-supplied house (oh, and voting), there's nothing I can do. that is truly how democratic our society has become; we're moving en-masse to a type of government nobody really wants, but everyone's too stupid to fight against.
second point is a little disheartening, until you realize all high schools do this already. those that are good in academics or sports are always put on a higher level than those who simply wade in the pools of educational mediocrity. and the social environment is actually _negative_ when it comes to people actually there to learn.
I don't really like the idea of a few billionaires being in charge of the way my children are taught, but they're far better than the current administration.