Ah yes, replying to my own reply. Yes, the Wikipedia link also suggests the cost may go as high as $75 billion, but it has some caveats to that later on in the article. Oh well. Certainly the "investment" of the US in "long-term middle-east stability" will dwarf even that number.
I'm not sure I understand your point. Anyway, a better comparison to China's dam would likely be the Panama Canal, the Tennessee Valley Project, or Hoover Dam. As for modern projects, how about New York's third water tunnel ($6 billion) or the $21 billion Chunnel. Oh yeah, the Iraq war ~totally~ dwarfs the cost of that dam too.
Thankfully, someone else typed out the quote I was looking for. It clearly supports your supposition, though blowing up the other bits you mentioned would likely also be a bad idea.
From The Boomer Bible, by R.F. Laird.
The Book of Yanks, Chapter 107, verses 5-16
5. After all, it hasn't ever been a good idea to make the Yanks mad, 6. Like with the Alamo, 7. And the Maine, 8. And the Lusitania, 9. Which should have tipped off the Nips that if they did something to the Yanks, 10. Something unspeakable like Pearl Harbor, for example, 11. The Yanks would remember it, 12. Forever, 13. And find a way to get even, 14. No matter how much it cost, 15. And now that you mention it, 16. Remember the Lusitania?
(The book's a little tongue in cheek -- please look past the use of "Nips".)
Your points are well taken -- the site you linked was indeed informative.
I stand by my assertions primarily because it took al qaeda a few hours (not including planning, obviously) to accomplish what both sides did in N. Ireland over 30 years. They still have 25 years to top the N. Ireland death toll.
Countries like the UK and Spain have had to put up with terrorism and the the threat of terrorism for decades, but they haven't developed a culture of fear, and it has not stopped them from getting on with their lives as normal.
Speaking as a US citizen, I agree with you that it would be "nice" if American culture was less terror-driven, but I think it's a tad unrealistic to compare the terrorism in the UK and Spain (ignoring, perhaps, the recent train bombing in Spain) to the effects of Sept 11th. The US culture weathered the Oklahoma City bombing and the first WTC bombing in a reasonable fashion. Having four planes, the twin towers, a portion of the Pentagon, and a few other sundry buildings fall out of the sky and/or collapse is, and I'm going out on limb here, a rather more disturbing event than what Britain and Spain experienced over a few decades. I'm not saying that to lessen the experience of the other countries, but there's not a lot of historical precedent for how a people should react to terrorism of Sept 11th's magnitude.
Is it really surprising that Americans are still a tad bothered by the whole terrorism thing?
And yeah, there's just gotta be a law against drivers watching TV...
Regarding the 'catalysis', your argument requires it to be impossible for a protein to convert into the disease state without the aid of a prion. I'd argue that there is a finite probability for the conversion of the global fold from the native to disease state; a prion is simply able to lower the energy barrier for the conversion. Really, this is splitting hairs though.
I think kuru's an excellent example of an infectious disease. It spreads through a normal (for cannibals...) activity in which the spreading of the disease is not the intent. It's just a CTD (cannibalistcally?) instead of an STD.
I actually was sorry to say it, because your post was very enthusiastic and I quite enjoyed the zombie sections, however I thought your description of the science was misleading.
I'm not sure why you don't like prion formation being a catalytic reaction: the original misfolded protein causes correctly-folded proteins to convert to the disease-state and isn't detroyed in the process.
I would argue that BSE is an infectious disease within domesticated cattle populations: it passes from one infected animal to others, though I clearly can't blame the cows for this. Amyloid plaque diseases have been infectious diseases in humans: Kuru was the cause of an epidemic in the cannibals of New Guinea. It would be interesting to know if Alzheimer's could be spread in the same way. I imagine volunteers would be scarce for that particular study.
For the systems of "amyloid" protein aggregates that I studied, the aggregated clumps of protein formed on a time scale of days so I always assumed that diffusion maintained a uniform concentration of unaggregated individual proteins.
That sounds reasonable. Have you considered a 'surface area' argument? If the aggregate settled, you'd have far fewer sites for aggregate extension than if it were suspended (or possibly broken into smaller clumps) by shaking.
I'm sorry to say this, but yours is not one of the better descriptions of prions and proteins that has been posted in response to this article.
There's more than enough chemistry and quantum mechanics in the folding of proteins. Hydrogen bonds, the sharing of electrons between electron-rich atoms and electron-poor hydrogens, is the key element holding proteins together. Actually, 'forcing' them together is rather more accurate since the "hydrophobic effect" that is the reason most proteins collapse into a structure is really just due water preferring to interact with itself rather than non-polar portions of a protein, thus forcing those portions to, in-effect, "hide" from the solvent.
That proteins denature or deform has more to do with subtlety of their arrnagement than to the "charge effets" of "individual atoms" that you refer to. Proteins may be denatured (unfolded) in a variety of ways: by heat, (which induces so much kinetic energy that stabilizing structures are overcome), by polar salts (which screen stabilizing charge interactions), by using a different proteins (some large proteins are thought to help 'fix' misfolded proteins by engulfing them and exposing them to a non-polar environment), or even by pressure.
That they "generate a charge field around themselves" is an especially worrisome comment. A better description of the way a prion protein could cause another to misfold is that it presents a surface with a series of hydrophobic and charged patches that the 'healthy' protein could interact with and catalyze the formation of its misfolded state.
As for the relation to Alzheimer's, the curiousity of prions is less that they form amyloid plaques in the brain and more that they act as an infectious agent for this type of disease. I'm not aware of any evidence of Alzheimer's spreading like a communicable disease, making the need to find an infectious agent minimal. That said, any treatment designed to block or reverse plaque formation in the brain will likely be able to treat Alzheimer's or prion-induced diseases.
Clearly 76.8 doesn't equal 100: I threw in some fudge factors. Power supplies seldom generate the wattage they advertise, so if you have a certain wattage you know you need, you'll want to make sure your power supply is reasonably above that value. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the power needs of the HD's increased with time, as I imagine the motor becomes less efficient. 100 was just an arbitrary round number that seemed reasonably greater than the one resulting from direct calculation.
Isn't it more likely that shaking simply improves the likelihood of soluble proteins coming into contact with the aggregated clumps? I think this it is less an issue of protein- and hydro-dynamics and more one speeding diffusion.
Kind of the opposite of dissolving sugar, but a similar root cause.
IAMABC, or at least a variation on the BC theme, and your explanation is right on. You might throw in the word "template" instead of mold and sprinkle a "catalyze" in there, but close enough.
Someone needs to mod your comment up. Hopefully my "+1" will help.
This is not a 'troll' despite its rating and that it was posted by an AC. Prion diseases are actually quite similar to Alzheimer's in that both are caused by aggregation of proteins in the brain, resulting amyloid plaque formation.
With 6 HDDs and all the other devices, what wattage power supply do you have?
Can anyone give me a rough formula of wattage/# of devices?
According to Western Digital's site, a 250GB SATA drive pulls 12.8 watts when reading/writing and 9.5 watts on standby. I figure for 6 drives that's about 100 watts of a _good_ power supply's rating.
When the PS/2 286 at work started feeling a little slow running Windows 3.something, we upgraded it to a 386SX. Kingston made the "SX Now!" upgrade, which consisted of a new processor on an adapter board. Just remove the PLCC 286 cpu and plug in the board. Funny thing about those PLCC sockets though, you can be off by 90 or 180 degrees.
We were off by 90 degrees. After noting that the system wouldn't boot, we studied the instructions again, rotated the board, and booted to Windows. We used Minewsweeper as a benchmark for the new processor -- the empty areas cleared with unimaginable speed!
Slashdot Mirror
Ah yes, replying to my own reply. Yes, the Wikipedia link also suggests the cost may go as high as $75 billion, but it has some caveats to that later on in the article. Oh well. Certainly the "investment" of the US in "long-term middle-east stability" will dwarf even that number.
The dam cost $24.65 billion.
The ISS has cost estimates on the order of $30 to $40 billion (including shuttle launch costs)
I'm not sure I understand your point. Anyway, a better comparison to China's dam would likely be the Panama Canal, the Tennessee Valley Project, or Hoover Dam. As for modern projects, how about New York's third water tunnel ($6 billion) or the $21 billion Chunnel. Oh yeah, the Iraq war ~totally~ dwarfs the cost of that dam too.
(The book's a little tongue in cheek -- please look past the use of "Nips".)
Thanks for replying.
Your points are well taken -- the site you linked was indeed informative.
I stand by my assertions primarily because it took al qaeda a few hours (not including planning, obviously) to accomplish what both sides did in N. Ireland over 30 years. They still have 25 years to top the N. Ireland death toll.
Speaking as a US citizen, I agree with you that it would be "nice" if American culture was less terror-driven, but I think it's a tad unrealistic to compare the terrorism in the UK and Spain (ignoring, perhaps, the recent train bombing in Spain) to the effects of Sept 11th. The US culture weathered the Oklahoma City bombing and the first WTC bombing in a reasonable fashion. Having four planes, the twin towers, a portion of the Pentagon, and a few other sundry buildings fall out of the sky and/or collapse is, and I'm going out on limb here, a rather more disturbing event than what Britain and Spain experienced over a few decades. I'm not saying that to lessen the experience of the other countries, but there's not a lot of historical precedent for how a people should react to terrorism of Sept 11th's magnitude.
Is it really surprising that Americans are still a tad bothered by the whole terrorism thing?
And yeah, there's just gotta be a law against drivers watching TV...
Good grief, the word's even used (and spelled correctly) in the article!
:P
Not that the master editors at Slashdot would concern themselves with spelling. Yeah, I'm talking to you Timothy!
Regarding the 'catalysis', your argument requires it to be impossible for a protein to convert into the disease state without the aid of a prion. I'd argue that there is a finite probability for the conversion of the global fold from the native to disease state; a prion is simply able to lower the energy barrier for the conversion. Really, this is splitting hairs though.
I think kuru's an excellent example of an infectious disease. It spreads through a normal (for cannibals...) activity in which the spreading of the disease is not the intent. It's just a CTD (cannibalistcally?) instead of an STD.
That's ok, it just means more people get to see your joke!
I actually was sorry to say it, because your post was very enthusiastic and I quite enjoyed the zombie sections, however I thought your description of the science was misleading.
I'm not sure why you don't like prion formation being a catalytic reaction: the original misfolded protein causes correctly-folded proteins to convert to the disease-state and isn't detroyed in the process.
I would argue that BSE is an infectious disease within domesticated cattle populations: it passes from one infected animal to others, though I clearly can't blame the cows for this. Amyloid plaque diseases have been infectious diseases in humans: Kuru was the cause of an epidemic in the cannibals of New Guinea. It would be interesting to know if Alzheimer's could be spread in the same way. I imagine volunteers would be scarce for that particular study.
By over time, I meant over the life of a given hard drive. I would expect a 1-day old RAID cluster to require less power than a 1-year old one.
That sounds reasonable. Have you considered a 'surface area' argument? If the aggregate settled, you'd have far fewer sites for aggregate extension than if it were suspended (or possibly broken into smaller clumps) by shaking.
Ah hah! You were cheating! I'm just thrilled to have a topic on Slashdot in which I get to "play expert".
I'm sorry to say this, but yours is not one of the better descriptions of prions and proteins that has been posted in response to this article.
There's more than enough chemistry and quantum mechanics in the folding of proteins. Hydrogen bonds, the sharing of electrons between electron-rich atoms and electron-poor hydrogens, is the key element holding proteins together. Actually, 'forcing' them together is rather more accurate since the "hydrophobic effect" that is the reason most proteins collapse into a structure is really just due water preferring to interact with itself rather than non-polar portions of a protein, thus forcing those portions to, in-effect, "hide" from the solvent.
That proteins denature or deform has more to do with subtlety of their arrnagement than to the "charge effets" of "individual atoms" that you refer to. Proteins may be denatured (unfolded) in a variety of ways: by heat, (which induces so much kinetic energy that stabilizing structures are overcome), by polar salts (which screen stabilizing charge interactions), by using a different proteins (some large proteins are thought to help 'fix' misfolded proteins by engulfing them and exposing them to a non-polar environment), or even by pressure.
That they "generate a charge field around themselves" is an especially worrisome comment. A better description of the way a prion protein could cause another to misfold is that it presents a surface with a series of hydrophobic and charged patches that the 'healthy' protein could interact with and catalyze the formation of its misfolded state.
As for the relation to Alzheimer's, the curiousity of prions is less that they form amyloid plaques in the brain and more that they act as an infectious agent for this type of disease. I'm not aware of any evidence of Alzheimer's spreading like a communicable disease, making the need to find an infectious agent minimal. That said, any treatment designed to block or reverse plaque formation in the brain will likely be able to treat Alzheimer's or prion-induced diseases.
Clearly 76.8 doesn't equal 100: I threw in some fudge factors. Power supplies seldom generate the wattage they advertise, so if you have a certain wattage you know you need, you'll want to make sure your power supply is reasonably above that value. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the power needs of the HD's increased with time, as I imagine the motor becomes less efficient. 100 was just an arbitrary round number that seemed reasonably greater than the one resulting from direct calculation.
Isn't it more likely that shaking simply improves the likelihood of soluble proteins coming into contact with the aggregated clumps? I think this it is less an issue of protein- and hydro-dynamics and more one speeding diffusion.
Kind of the opposite of dissolving sugar, but a similar root cause.
IAMABC, or at least a variation on the BC theme, and your explanation is right on. You might throw in the word "template" instead of mold and sprinkle a "catalyze" in there, but close enough.
Someone needs to mod your comment up. Hopefully my "+1" will help.
This is not a 'troll' despite its rating and that it was posted by an AC. Prion diseases are actually quite similar to Alzheimer's in that both are caused by aggregation of proteins in the brain, resulting amyloid plaque formation.
Prions aren't a disease, but there are a few diseases caused by them (BSE, scrapie...).
HIV isn't a disease either, but AIDS is.
According to Western Digital's site, a 250GB SATA drive pulls 12.8 watts when reading/writing and 9.5 watts on standby. I figure for 6 drives that's about 100 watts of a _good_ power supply's rating.
When the PS/2 286 at work started feeling a little slow running Windows 3.something, we upgraded it to a 386SX. Kingston made the "SX Now!" upgrade, which consisted of a new processor on an adapter board. Just remove the PLCC 286 cpu and plug in the board. Funny thing about those PLCC sockets though, you can be off by 90 or 180 degrees.
We were off by 90 degrees. After noting that the system wouldn't boot, we studied the instructions again, rotated the board, and booted to Windows. We used Minewsweeper as a benchmark for the new processor -- the empty areas cleared with unimaginable speed!
Had I mod points, you'd be getting one. This is obviously the correct answer. Especially the 'dumbass' part.
Thanks! Now if I were only able to mod your post up...
Great post, but it's just begging for a screenshot.
Picture... thousand words... and all that.
Eegads! SBC! Gawd, I'd rather drink Tullys!
How about Torrefazione or (now available even in Seattle) Peet's. Or wander into Caffe Vita or any of a number of smaller shops that brew it.
Of course Starbucks does now own both SBC and Torrefazione...