And why should I care? If SCO/Solaris/BSD runs Linux binaries, wants to be part of LSB (BSD does), yet is treated as a platform UNworthy of making sure "linux binaries" work with BSD/SCO/Solaris...why should anyone give a damn about what this site is trying to do? They are just as bad as RedHat.
This site is NOT about "wanting fairness in linux"....they want fairness defined as GNU/Linux. To hell with Solaris/BSD/SCO.
(Keep in mind that when the X86 based Unixes all tried to get together and define a standard shrink-wrapped binary, http://www.telly.org/86open/index.html "linux binaries" was what ended up as the result. When OTHER VENDORS have tried to meet GNU/Linux 1/2 way....they have been snubbed.)
If you want to support these people, fine. They are only doing 1/3 of the job. They need to 'educate' about the LSB *AND* the BSD/SCO/Solaris linux compatibility modes to do the job.
I still see no mention of the application space on the handheld.
What makes a Newton (or palm) a PDA that is useful out of the box is the limited user interface and the built in apps. What makes them a part of your life is the ability to add applications tailored to your needs.
So: What apps will ship with this box? How many of them will have source aviable? What is being done to put the present apps known and loved on the diet they need for a 32 meg home. Can you make it 64 meg so the home is big enough?
The DragonBall has a 68000 history behind it, so it was a simpler move for a number of embedded engineers.
When Mr. Jobs cancelled the spin-off of Newton Inc, within 2 weeks 32 of the engineers from the Newton Project left in mass to Palm.
They followed a few others who had left eairler, and I'm sure told the 32 how wonderful it was to work at Palm.
As for the Newton technology in a Palm....
1) The original Graffitti authors are gone. So the sacred cow of graffitti can go. Same for the Dragonball.
2) The authors of rosetta are at Palm. They COULD do the handwriting on the palm (and rumor is this has happened...;-) ) BUT the Apple lawyers would sue.
SO....If Apple wants to market a re-labeled Palm, and Palm wants handwriting, the simplest way is to swap IP.
Given that Linux was buggy compaired to AIX in that time frame, not to mention Linux was not even involved, I don't understand why you have a problem with Linux.
But that is fine. There is another choice in OpenSource Unix(like) OSes. It is called BSD. And, if you like paying money for BSD, then hey, there is BSD/OS at $995.
(and at Linuxworld etc la I've seen caged penguins but no trees to hug. Do you go to a different plave to see trees huged by Linux users?)
"but it had to download the file, apply freebsd patches"
Funny. When I type in make in the/usr/ports stuff gets DLed by the OS (I don't have to do it) and the make process ALSO applies the patches.
I don't know what you are doing...but it sounds like a very long and pain-filled process for no reason. I used to do that...then I decided that typing make and going to lunch was more important.
>that virtually all of the business of the U. S. Government would cease if their MS licences were to suddenly expire.
At one time (1995) the US Forest service was under mandate to use Applixware over MS Office. The reason? They wanted to encourage someone other than M$ as a supplier of OS and office suite.
>while it was really really fast and ran well, I couldn't get ANYTHING to compile,
Go to/usr/ports Pick a program from INDEX go into that directory type in make
Your compiler should do the job for you.
Do you hope to stop the trolls/mails with this
on
Tech Stocks Tumble
·
· Score: 1
I guess I do not grok what you hope to have happen with this story/comments on/.
Given this is a 'public forum', where almost anything can be said, the people who have an axe to grind for whatever reason are going to just keep coming back.
The trolls goal is to have the people who want this to be a productive forum be driven away. The present system of moderation allows for this goal to be achieved.
Posting about the market/Linux stocks/Andover won't accomplish the goal of enlightment of the trolls to shut them up. Their goal is harassment, no matter the cost.
http://www.bio.umass.edu/bio logy/kunkel/cockroach.html has by far more than most people want to know. As far as bugs go, cockroaches arn't so bad. Flies, bees, hornets, ants (fire ants come to the top) are FAR worse. It is just our conditioning that makes roaches on the hated list.
Cockroaches are very sensitive to water loss, that is why they don't like the light. Airflow, low humidity, and no dripping water will kill them quickly.
So darkness with alot of airflow and no water, and they won't thrive, survive, or breed. If you want to kill roaches with mold spores, then you have to have the damp conditions. The use of diatematous earth causes cuts in the excskeleton, and dehydration. Note mold/DE will work well for ants also.
Now...ESR's latest story he tries to forward the Linux-as-OpenSource adjenda (note how he speaks at The Bazzar/elsewhere and how he wants to see BSD have more success, yet no BSD binaries for fetchmail and no mention of BSD. So much for using his bully pulpit to back what he says.) And, although his points about OpenSource are correct, the statement about "inserted a security-compromising back" seems to be false. So this story by ESR falls short of what it could have been.
Of course, pointing out backword text of Netscape engineers are weenies!, is not as damning as a backdoor. A backdoor is nice press, too bad it is looking like it is not true.
Taking this article and waving it under other people's noses as proof of how much better OpenSource is over closed source will do little good because the reports of a backdoor is false. Nice preaching to the choir, but you need to be convicining others, not the readers of/.
>Backdoors aren't always a bad thing. Say due to some "bug" in the software, you get locked out of your mission critical system. How do you get back in?
Sendmail. Internet Worm.
Does ANYONE remember this? How the backdoor used was there to help debug sendmail. And how this known backdoor was used to propagate the worm.
The e-mate never really had the chance to take off as the eMate. And, the eMate may never had made it, but that is why we are here asking if computers should be a standard tool in the schools.
Many school districts bought into the eMate because of: 1) the hard to destroy design. (6 foot drop tests, and it survived.) 2) the lack of hard drive 3) not running WinTel binaries ment it was hard to have viruses propagate, non-school sanctioned programs. 4) the suite of software was able to do base-line school-centric computing tasks. 5) cheaper than other portables.
Jobs killed the Newton due to his ego on Feb 27th. On March 1st, Apple reps were at the national education board and were quoted as saying "the eMate is still an important part of the Apple lineup."
(Huh? Important part of the lineup that is cancelled product?)
I took it that Lars feels art is not to be treated as a commodity, and by extension, accessable to the public. Perhaps you are right...he just doesn't want *HIS* are to be a commodity!
Wait, no...that can't be! If Lars didn't want *HIS* art to be a commodity: 1) You would not be able to obtain it via CD at k-mart. 2) You would not hear it on the radio.
Oh, and grumpy: as you enjoy de-constructing text, please feel free to show where I made a statement that ALL ART is public as stated by your comment "your assanine statement assuming that all art it PUBLIC"
In a press release announcing the suit, publicists for the band and music companies even threw in a statement from Metallica drummer Lars Ulrich, who said it is "sickening to know that our art is being traded like a commodity rather than the art that it is."
Ahhh, yes the only way to enjoy art is to pay for it. Guess the idea of public art, street preformers, public art houses, and art accessability projects are bunk. Thanks for pointing this out Lars, otherwise I would have never have known that art is to be bought, and not enjoyed.
(mind you: I don't consider Metallica art, and I don't think the piracy of music is right. But making assine statements like Lars did deserive EVERYONES mocking laughter)
Harm - what level causes harm? Some people have zero tolerance policy, others are willing to trust if the government/companies say it is OK, then I'm OK. The consumers who buy organic produce/no tupperware have less faith in the knowledge of man WRT chemicals in the environment than others.
Think of 'safe' levels for exposure in the past. Some have went up, some down, some to 0. DDT is an example of zero tolerance. Freon is another 'goto zero' example. But where is BPA? This is where you, as the consumer, has to decide.
The question becomes for you as a consumer: 1) How much of a risk am I willing to take having this item in my home/life 2) What will happen to this plastic thing when I am done with it (landfill? Re-cycled?) 3) Is making more products with a toxin something I, as the consumer, am willing to life with. Computers can be made with out polycarbonate, so you do have a choice....
And there you go, proving the POINT of the thread:
How does one define socially responsible?
If you believe in zero tolerance is being socially responsible, then the steel cases of old are better than the plastic cases, because the risks from BPA aren't worth it.
If you are a plastics vendor, then it is all safe....nothing to see here, and the use of the product is responsible.
I provided ALL the links as an example, for the thinking members of/. to make a decision.
And if Apple is a socially responsible company, then why have they opposed the european mandates WRT obsolecent products? (The EU has wanted to force makers to have a large %age of the machines be re-useable at the end of the products life, and the maker is to take back the machine and re-cycle it. If some EU/.ers want to chime in, PLEASE do! Apple, at one time, was on the list of the companies who opposed this EU proposal.)
The question I am asking shows another problem with 'product activism', that is, getting consumers to care enuf to research something. Then, having them care enuf to NOT buy based on the issue.
If you bothered to follow some links http://www.bisphenol-a.org/products.html "Bisphenol A is a chemical building block of polycarbonate (PC) plastic. PC plastics are highly durable" A nice picture of the clear plastic....
http://www.apple.com/hotn ews/features/mwsf99keynote2.html "You should have been there when Jobs showed off the new design. There was a stunned moment of silence followed by wild applause. "It's built out of polycarbonate, which is the same stuff they use to make bulletproof vests," he explained, prompting laughter. "
Now the question: Is it socially responsible to 1) be making this kind of machine covering 2) have these computers in schools, where endocrine disruption has more of an effect.
Keep in mind that the Good Design (tm) award given out in Japan was NOT given to the iMac. Why? Because of the use of bisphenol-A. (this is how I found out in fact....)
Micro$oft is no different than any other company who spends money on the "many leaches" (politicians). Remember too, that M$ political contributions were minimal until they announced they wanted a hunk of banking/the communication (phone) industries.
(What industries know how and have made campaign contributions for years...banking/telcos. Remember when M$ was going to put quicken outta business/buy them/get into banking? At about that same time, it leaked they were going to get into communications. When they got blocked WRT the intuit buyout, you will note how the political contributions shot WAY up.)
My comment about the quality is based on this: *I* consider it a mark of responsibility when you advertise something as working and is sold as working, it had better work as advertise. M$ fails that test historically for the most part.
Apple has had issues in the past WRT the number of african americans in management
Here on/., Micro$oft is disliked for the quality of the code they sell. (think if the stuff worked.)
Digital (now part of Compaq) is rarely given credit for their creation and then NOT getting patents on the citrus replacement for freon solvents.
And Ray Norda gets no credit for his settling the BSD/AT&T lawsuit. (a social issue of importance to the BSD community/OpenSource software)
The simplest metric would be to get the finationals from the companies and see what they list as charties, then do a %age. But what is important to you, say a greenpeace donation, is not important to others (say replacing freon)
I can get all my 16-64K Apple ][ programs on that 70 gig drive. And still have space for the C64 code.
Not to mention all my AppleScript letters. The biggest problem is getting UDMA/SCSI drives working on the Apple ][. The C64 is a whole different interface issue....
(Gonna run out of space? Bah, go on a data diet. Do you NEED to be storing HDTV DVD's on your hard drive?)
Slashdot Mirror
And why should I care? If SCO/Solaris/BSD runs Linux binaries, wants to be part of LSB (BSD does), yet is treated as a platform UNworthy of making sure "linux binaries" work with BSD/SCO/Solaris...why should anyone give a damn about what this site is trying to do? They are just as bad as RedHat.
This site is NOT about "wanting fairness in linux"....they want fairness defined as GNU/Linux. To hell with Solaris/BSD/SCO.
(Keep in mind that when the X86 based Unixes all tried to get together and define a standard shrink-wrapped binary, http://www.telly.org/86open/index.html "linux binaries" was what ended up as the result. When OTHER VENDORS have tried to meet GNU/Linux 1/2 way....they have been snubbed.)
If you want to support these people, fine. They are only doing 1/3 of the job. They need to 'educate' about the LSB *AND* the BSD/SCO/Solaris linux compatibility modes to do the job.
I still see no mention of the application space on the handheld.
What makes a Newton (or palm) a PDA that is useful out of the box is the limited user interface and the built in apps. What makes them a part of your life is the ability to add applications tailored to your needs.
So: What apps will ship with this box? How many of them will have source aviable? What is being done to put the present apps known and loved on the diet they need for a 32 meg home. Can you make it 64 meg so the home is big enough?
The DragonBall has a 68000 history behind it, so it was a simpler move for a number of embedded engineers.
When Mr. Jobs cancelled the spin-off of Newton Inc, within 2 weeks 32 of the engineers from the Newton Project left in mass to Palm.
They followed a few others who had left eairler, and I'm sure told the 32 how wonderful it was to work at Palm.
As for the Newton technology in a Palm....
1) The original Graffitti authors are gone. So the sacred cow of graffitti can go. Same for the Dragonball.
2) The authors of rosetta are at Palm. They COULD do the handwriting on the palm (and rumor is this has happened...;-) ) BUT the Apple lawyers would sue.
SO....If Apple wants to market a re-labeled Palm, and Palm wants handwriting, the simplest way is to swap IP.
Thanks for pointing that out how, just a few days ago the backwards text about Netscape was called a backdoor.
(Its looking like the 'password' was not really a backdoor password in a classic sense. It is used, but not as orignally reported.)
And yes, declaring this black-eye for Red Hat a victory IS a total biasing. But remember this forum is Linux-biased.
What good is Linux support if the card does not support XFree86?
What 'custom linux' thing are they doing such that Linux is listed and not XFree86?
Given that Linux was buggy compaired to AIX in that time frame, not to mention Linux was not even involved, I don't understand why you have a problem with Linux.
But that is fine. There is another choice in OpenSource Unix(like) OSes. It is called BSD. And, if you like paying money for BSD, then hey, there is BSD/OS at $995.
(and at Linuxworld etc la I've seen caged penguins but no trees to hug. Do you go to a different plave to see trees huged by Linux users?)
"but it had to download the file, apply freebsd patches"
/usr/ports stuff gets DLed by the OS (I don't have to do it) and the make process ALSO applies the patches.
Funny. When I type in make in the
I don't know what you are doing...but it sounds like a very long and pain-filled process for no reason. I used to do that...then I decided that typing make and going to lunch was more important.
"flawlessly as if linux"
Sure, whatever.
>that virtually all of the business of the U. S. Government would cease if their MS licences were to suddenly expire.
At one time (1995) the US Forest service was under mandate to use Applixware over MS Office. The reason? They wanted to encourage someone other than M$ as a supplier of OS and office suite.
>while it was really really fast and ran well, I couldn't get ANYTHING to compile,
/usr/ports
Go to
Pick a program from INDEX
go into that directory
type in make
Your compiler should do the job for you.
I guess I do not grok what you hope to have happen with this story/comments on /.
Given this is a 'public forum', where almost anything can be said, the people who have an axe to grind for whatever reason are going to just keep coming back.
The trolls goal is to have the people who want this to be a productive forum be driven away. The present system of moderation allows for this goal to be achieved.
Posting about the market/Linux stocks/Andover won't accomplish the goal of enlightment of the trolls to shut them up. Their goal is harassment, no matter the cost.
http://www.bio.umass.edu/bio logy/kunkel/cockroach.html has by far more than most people want to know. As far as bugs go, cockroaches arn't so bad. Flies, bees, hornets, ants (fire ants come to the top) are FAR worse. It is just our conditioning that makes roaches on the hated list.
/.
Cockroaches are very sensitive to water loss, that is why they don't like the light. Airflow, low humidity, and no dripping water will kill them quickly.
So darkness with alot of airflow and no water, and they won't thrive, survive, or breed. If you want to kill roaches with mold spores, then you have to have the damp conditions. The use of diatematous earth causes cuts in the excskeleton, and dehydration. Note mold/DE will work well for ants also.
Now...ESR's latest story he tries to forward the Linux-as-OpenSource adjenda (note how he speaks at The Bazzar/elsewhere and how he wants to see BSD have more success, yet no BSD binaries for fetchmail and no mention of BSD. So much for using his bully pulpit to back what he says.) And, although his points about OpenSource are correct, the statement about "inserted a security-compromising back" seems to be false. So this story by ESR falls short of what it could have been.
Of course, pointing out backword text of Netscape engineers are weenies!, is not as damning as a backdoor. A backdoor is nice press, too bad it is looking like it is not true.
Taking this article and waving it under other people's noses as proof of how much better OpenSource is over closed source will do little good because the reports of a backdoor is false. Nice preaching to the choir, but you need to be convicining others, not the readers of
>Backdoors aren't always a bad thing. Say due to some "bug" in the software, you get locked out of your mission critical system. How do you get back in?
Sendmail. Internet Worm.
Does ANYONE remember this? How the backdoor used was there to help debug sendmail. And how this known backdoor was used to propagate the worm.
You seem bitter over VA resaerch shares.
The e-mate never really had the chance to take off as the eMate. And, the eMate may never had made it, but that is why we are here asking if computers should be a standard tool in the schools.
Many school districts bought into the eMate because of:
1) the hard to destroy design. (6 foot drop tests, and it survived.)
2) the lack of hard drive
3) not running WinTel binaries ment it was hard to have viruses propagate, non-school sanctioned programs.
4) the suite of software was able to do base-line school-centric computing tasks.
5) cheaper than other portables.
Jobs killed the Newton due to his ego on Feb 27th. On March 1st, Apple reps were at the national education board and were quoted as saying "the eMate is still an important part of the Apple lineup."
(Huh? Important part of the lineup that is cancelled product?)
No laughter that I see.
I took it that Lars feels art is not to be treated as a commodity, and by extension, accessable to the public. Perhaps you are right...he just doesn't want *HIS* are to be a commodity!
Wait, no...that can't be! If Lars didn't want *HIS* art to be a commodity:
1) You would not be able to obtain it via CD at k-mart.
2) You would not hear it on the radio.
Oh, and grumpy: as you enjoy de-constructing text, please feel free to show where I made a statement that ALL ART is public as stated by your comment "your assanine statement assuming that all art it PUBLIC"
In a press release announcing the suit, publicists for the band and music companies even threw in a statement from Metallica drummer Lars Ulrich, who said it is "sickening to know that our art is being traded like a commodity rather than the art that it is."
Ahhh, yes the only way to enjoy art is to pay for it. Guess the idea of public art, street preformers, public art houses, and art accessability projects are bunk. Thanks for pointing this out Lars, otherwise I would have never have known that art is to be bought, and not enjoyed.
(mind you: I don't consider Metallica art, and I don't think the piracy of music is right. But making assine statements like Lars did deserive EVERYONES mocking laughter)
1) This package is not listed as compatible with Linux compatibility modes. So does it work on BSD, SCO, Solaris?
2) No one has mentioned what level of M$ office file compatibility is there. Such as Office 97 or Office 2000.
If it is not Office 2000 file-compatible, what will an upgrade cost?
What about the air...plastics outgas
:-)
What happens to the plastic when it gets thrown out?
There are more ways of getting you iMac BPAs then licking them/using the keyboard.
Yes, the iMac case is polycarbonate.
Yes, polycarbonates have Bisphenol-a
Harm - what level causes harm? Some people have zero tolerance policy, others are willing to trust if the government/companies say it is OK, then I'm OK. The consumers who buy organic produce/no tupperware have less faith in the knowledge of man WRT chemicals in the environment than others.
Think of 'safe' levels for exposure in the past. Some have went up, some down, some to 0. DDT is an example of zero tolerance. Freon is another 'goto zero' example. But where is BPA? This is where you, as the consumer, has to decide.
The question becomes for you as a consumer:
1) How much of a risk am I willing to take having this item in my home/life
2) What will happen to this plastic thing when I am done with it (landfill? Re-cycled?)
3) Is making more products with a toxin something I, as the consumer, am willing to life with. Computers can be made with out polycarbonate, so you do have a choice....
And there you go, proving the POINT of the thread:
/. to make a decision.
/.ers want to chime in, PLEASE do! Apple, at one time, was on the list of the companies who opposed this EU proposal.)
How does one define socially responsible?
If you believe in zero tolerance is being socially responsible, then the steel cases of old are better than the plastic cases, because the risks from BPA aren't worth it.
If you are a plastics vendor, then it is all safe....nothing to see here, and the use of the product is responsible.
I provided ALL the links as an example, for the thinking members of
And if Apple is a socially responsible company, then why have they opposed the european mandates WRT obsolecent products? (The EU has wanted to force makers to have a large %age of the machines be re-useable at the end of the products life, and the maker is to take back the machine and re-cycle it. If some EU
The question I am asking shows another problem with 'product activism', that is, getting consumers to care enuf to research something. Then, having them care enuf to NOT buy based on the issue.
If you bothered to follow some links
http://www.bisphenol-a.org/products.html
"Bisphenol A is a chemical building block of polycarbonate (PC) plastic. PC plastics are highly durable" A nice picture of the clear plastic....
http://www.apple.com/hotn ews/features/mwsf99keynote2.html
"You should have been there when Jobs showed off the new design. There was a stunned moment of silence followed by wild applause. "It's built out of polycarbonate, which is the same stuff they use to make bulletproof vests," he explained, prompting laughter. "
A follow up on Apple:
Apple also makes its iMac line of computers with polycarbonate plastic. This plastic contains bisphenol A.
Apple acknologies the plastic outgasses enough for people to notice the smell.
A list of links from 'it causes testicles to shrink' to 'everything is ok'
http://www.wwfcanada.org/red uce-risk/questionable.html
http://www.sciencedai ly.com/releases/1999/10/991021075812.htm
http://www.niehs.nih.gov/oc/news/seala nt.htm
http://www.doh.gov.uk/hef/bisphena.htm
The Pro BPA page telling you everything is Ok, nothign to see here...http://www.bisphenol-a.org/
Now the question:
Is it socially responsible to
1) be making this kind of machine covering
2) have these computers in schools, where endocrine disruption has more of an effect.
Keep in mind that the Good Design (tm) award given out in Japan was NOT given to the iMac. Why? Because of the use of bisphenol-A. (this is how I found out in fact....)
Micro$oft is no different than any other company who spends money on the "many leaches" (politicians). Remember too, that M$ political contributions were minimal until they announced they wanted a hunk of banking/the communication (phone) industries.
(What industries know how and have made campaign contributions for years...banking/telcos. Remember when M$ was going to put quicken outta business/buy them/get into banking? At about that same time, it leaked they were going to get into communications. When they got blocked WRT the intuit buyout, you will note how the political contributions shot WAY up.)
My comment about the quality is based on this: *I* consider it a mark of responsibility when you advertise something as working and is sold as working, it had better work as advertise. M$ fails that test historically for the most part.
Depends on the metrics you use.
/., Micro$oft is disliked for the quality of the code they sell. (think if the stuff worked.)
Apple has had issues in the past WRT the number of african americans in management
Here on
Digital (now part of Compaq) is rarely given credit for their creation and then NOT getting patents on the citrus replacement for freon solvents.
And Ray Norda gets no credit for his settling the BSD/AT&T lawsuit. (a social issue of importance to the BSD community/OpenSource software)
The simplest metric would be to get the finationals from the companies and see what they list as charties, then do a %age. But what is important to you, say a greenpeace donation, is not important to others (say replacing freon)
I can get all my 16-64K Apple ][ programs on that 70 gig drive. And still have space for the C64 code.
Not to mention all my AppleScript letters. The biggest problem is getting UDMA/SCSI drives working on the Apple ][. The C64 is a whole different interface issue....
(Gonna run out of space? Bah, go on a data diet. Do you NEED to be storing HDTV DVD's on your hard drive?)