Very well stated! The grandparent poster is thoughtlessly parroting talking points put forward by corporate sponsored propaganda outlets like The Drudge Report, Fox News, and the like. They have it down to a science. They take an isolated fact, strip it of context, frame it in a manner that supports their false narrative, then pound it into the heads of people like grandparent who, thanks to underfunded schools, never learned critical thinking skills and have been trained to think of fact based information outlets as "the liberal media."
Most expensive of all however would be th impoud fees. If you park on Market they'll tow your car in minutes even if there isn't a demonstration going on.
The problem is that you are being forced to buy it whether you want to use it or not. They don't make me buy a motorcycle helmet even if I am never going to ride a motorcycle.
This is the single greatest misconception about the whole "mandate" issue. The fact is that there is no provision in the law that makes it an offense to not purchase health insurance. The so called mandate is merely a tax penalty imposed on those who fail to do so. If you do not wish to buy insurance you don't have to. You just pay the penalty. Congress can write the tax code pretty much any way it sees fit. There is nothing unconstitutional about it.
My intent was to simply disregard this post and instead only pay attention to those posters who provided constructive input and advice. In truth however, I do take offense to your comment. I am a professional who has managed network environments for a wide array of businesses in various industries. The scale and scope of this project are well within my operating parameters and I have little doubt that whatever solution I end up deploying for this client will provide the services required in a reliable and cost effective manner. Furthermore, I know my own strengths and weaknesses. I fully recognized that there were particular aspects to this deployment that I have not encountered so I knew some amount of research would be necessary prior to even making recommendations. As part of this research it occured to me that Ask Slashdot might be a perfect forum through which I could gain tremendous value by the collective knowledge of all who visit this site. This has proven to be more true than I could have anticipated.
Prior to asking, my preferred course of action for this job was and still is to simply run new cabling and deploy a series of centrally managed POE APs. After that the choice would be a fairly simple one of platform and hardware, though thanks to Slashdot I have found a couple of interesting options ofwhich I had not previously known. I also had considered mesh networks but as I had not personally deployed any I wanted feedback on the reliability of such systems. Again, Slashdot provided valuable insight. I will fully admit that I was not completely familiar with the backend infrastructure of their DSLAM setup, though once I understood what it I was looking at the logic of the system is readily apparent and there is a strong argument to be made in favor of simply mirroring this system. If this is the chosen course of action, through a little blood and sweat, I could probably punch down the blocks myself and configure the DSLAM and modems, but more likely I will work with an existing colleague or find one more skilled in these particular tasks (and hopefully learn something along the way). In short, I do have the resources to make this happen as well should the need arise.
So I'm sorry my lack of jargon and unnecessary technical info causes you to question my skills but I am fully confident my ability to listen to the client, understand their needs, and communicate with them effectively, combined with my attention to detail and the simple ability to get things done will in the end leave them better served than most of these "professionals" of whom you speak.
This does look interesting. How reliable has this system been for you? Also, how much time and energy have you needed to support this implementation and what are the most common support scenarios you've encountered?
Is this hotel apart of a hotel chain or is it owned by individuals?
I am not exactly sure of the ownership structure but it is not a chain. Management has full discretion.
Does the company use Comcast Business class internet?
Yes, Comcast is fully aware of this circuit's intended purpose.
Is this hotel Enclosed
No. All walkways are outdoors. The existing APs are in bottom floor rooms.
On top of the internet they are getting do they have a gateway already setup?
No. I am replacing the entire network. I already have ideas for switches, gateways, etc, but why not solicit free outside advice if possible?:)
If your looking to support this your self are you aware most hotel guess don't come in until either very early in the morning or very late at night,
I do work with associates to provide 24/7 availability to clients. I would obviously prefer as centrally managed a system as possible.
One last suggestion if you saw telephone cables used in their setup I would highly recommended you run new cable, just for error rates alone. but in the process of doing that get access points that support POE and you can get a switch that can give it out that way you only have to run 1 cable to the desired location and you can reboot the devices remotely in the last job I had we did this to many hotels and it's saved us lots of money and time because you don't have to tell the hotel staff to unplug power from the devices, or have to wait until morning for the crew who knows where everything is.
I am totally with you here. POE is definitely the preferred option but the wiring consideration is key. My leaning is to cable APs to a few key locations and set up a wireless mesh to fill in the gaps.
OK, while others here have provided good suggestions you are the first to ask specific and relevant questions.
What is the hotel using now and why does it want to replace it?
They are using a third party provider that manages the entire system. This system includes a paywall that they no longer feel is advantageous to their business. Additionally, they are bringing in Comcast to provide telephone and television services as well.
What is a "proprietary encasement," and who put the APs there? Are you expected to put new APs in the same encasements? What will happen to the old APs?
The existing APs are located in individual bottom floor rooms in two story buildings. They are placed in boxes sealed with tamperproof bolts. The only lines in are what appears to be a standard telephone line and a power cable. There is also a telephone line coming out connected to the telephone. Presumably, the company who manages the current system will take the old APs. The existing networking equipment is also protected from closer inspection though does connect through standard telephone punchdown blocks.
You say the hotel doesn't want to lay any new cable. That might just be too bad, but it also seems to imply that there is already some cable somewhere. Why not use the existing cable? You say the APs "seem to be connected by telephone wire," but you don't sound sure. Perhaps it's just long strings with tin cans at each end? Is there any way to find out?
If new cabling is required then so be it. The owners would just rather it be kept to the absolute minimum necessary.
If the existing network is as strange and nonstandard as you make it sound, why is that? Was there something unique to the property that made that the best solution, and is it smart for you to ignore that?
I think the primary reason again was the desire to avoid new wiring.
Before you begin, have you verified that the hotel's contract with Comcast actually allows it to offer Internet access to the public?
Yes
You say the hotel wants to provide the network for free, so there's no need for any billing management system. Are you then comfortable with the idea that there will be no logging of the network at all, and no record of who might have used it and when? Is BitTorrent OK? How about botnets?
The ability to centrally manage the APs is a strong plus. Additionally, logging is not highly critical but the ability to ensure that bandwidth is distributed as equitably as possible would be nice. Yes, I would like the ability to restrict botnets and other undesirable traffic.
If the patrons aren't expected to pay for the network, can they expect it to exist at all? That is, do you have a plan to test and verify that every room will have equal access to the network, and that a guest who came last summer won't return this summer and find out that the hotel doesn't seem to have WiFi anymore (when in fact it's just their new room)?
It should be available throughout. I do plan to test signal strength from every room.
Are you aware of FCC regulations regarding signal strength of your antennas, for those portions of the property that might be natural dark spots?
Yes, I will add APs as needed
Does your task include just replacing the network or does it also include managing the network, making repairs, etc.? How much time do you plan to devote to that?
I will be managing the system also. I do not wish to devote a tremendous amount of time to managing this system once it is in place. A central management console will be highly valued.
A bookie is basically an individual betting against the crowd. The bookie nearly always wins. If the crowd had the upper hand, there wouldn't be many bookies left...
You obviously have no idea how a book making works. Any bookie actually putting his own money on the line wouldn't last very long.
That is probably why it is modded as Funny. Everybody knows that Fox News commentators don't express relevant opinions. They only spread fear and misinformation to people who don't want any annoying facts disrupting their world view.
Wonder if we'll ever see Colbert gagged because some right-wing terrorist realized they were being made fun of
Not very likely, 'cause that would require a right-wing terrorist to, you know, actually realize they were being made of! I'm sure subtle satire is beyond the ken of most of them.
Everyone hates the filibuster when their party is the one in power. It's such a fucking cliche.
True but this congress has used the filibuster for solely political purposes and far more often than any congress in history. When a bill to extended unemployment insurance passes with a 98-0 vote after Dems overcame the filibuster it is obvious that the Republicans are being purely obstructionist and at the country's expense.
Thank you for being the only one in this thread to realize that the Supreme Court is "The United States Court of Appeals". Everybody else on this thread needs a civics lesson. Unfortunately I also believe you are correct on the 5-4 split. Personally I think somebody should find a way to get an attractive young law clerk working in Thomas' office. I know he is old but he is prone to sexual harassment and a good scandal could force him to resign. Of course if Scalia would just throw himself out a window that could do the trick too.
Brings up a interesting point, is there an addon/other way to make Firefox not use arial even if its installed and the page explicitly requests it?
Stylish will allow you to customize any website using custom css. There are many pre-configured themes for popular websites that you can download and install... including slashdot.
The problem with that as demonstrated by recent experience is that they aren't the only ones hurt by this activity. These repercussions have negative consequences throughout the economy. I have nothing against somebody becoming wealthy but not at the risk endangering the financial stability of the broader economy. What ever happened to earning money by providing a valuable product or service and doing so better or cheaper than the competition. As a business model that will stand the test of time AND grow the larger economy at the same time.
Slashdot Mirror
Which is essentially what the United States would be also if the teabaggers had their way.
Very well stated! The grandparent poster is thoughtlessly parroting talking points put forward by corporate sponsored propaganda outlets like The Drudge Report, Fox News, and the like. They have it down to a science. They take an isolated fact, strip it of context, frame it in a manner that supports their false narrative, then pound it into the heads of people like grandparent who, thanks to underfunded schools, never learned critical thinking skills and have been trained to think of fact based information outlets as "the liberal media."
Most expensive of all however would be th impoud fees. If you park on Market they'll tow your car in minutes even if there isn't a demonstration going on.
The problem is that you are being forced to buy it whether you want to use it or not. They don't make me buy a motorcycle helmet even if I am never going to ride a motorcycle.
This is the single greatest misconception about the whole "mandate" issue. The fact is that there is no provision in the law that makes it an offense to not purchase health insurance. The so called mandate is merely a tax penalty imposed on those who fail to do so. If you do not wish to buy insurance you don't have to. You just pay the penalty. Congress can write the tax code pretty much any way it sees fit. There is nothing unconstitutional about it.
I live in the US. I have consumer cable and get burst speeds of 30Mbps and sustained 12Mbps down. My upload clocks at 6Mbps sustained.
Stars do not use sustain fission.
My intent was to simply disregard this post and instead only pay attention to those posters who provided constructive input and advice. In truth however, I do take offense to your comment. I am a professional who has managed network environments for a wide array of businesses in various industries. The scale and scope of this project are well within my operating parameters and I have little doubt that whatever solution I end up deploying for this client will provide the services required in a reliable and cost effective manner. Furthermore, I know my own strengths and weaknesses. I fully recognized that there were particular aspects to this deployment that I have not encountered so I knew some amount of research would be necessary prior to even making recommendations. As part of this research it occured to me that Ask Slashdot might be a perfect forum through which I could gain tremendous value by the collective knowledge of all who visit this site. This has proven to be more true than I could have anticipated.
Prior to asking, my preferred course of action for this job was and still is to simply run new cabling and deploy a series of centrally managed POE APs. After that the choice would be a fairly simple one of platform and hardware, though thanks to Slashdot I have found a couple of interesting options ofwhich I had not previously known. I also had considered mesh networks but as I had not personally deployed any I wanted feedback on the reliability of such systems. Again, Slashdot provided valuable insight. I will fully admit that I was not completely familiar with the backend infrastructure of their DSLAM setup, though once I understood what it I was looking at the logic of the system is readily apparent and there is a strong argument to be made in favor of simply mirroring this system. If this is the chosen course of action, through a little blood and sweat, I could probably punch down the blocks myself and configure the DSLAM and modems, but more likely I will work with an existing colleague or find one more skilled in these particular tasks (and hopefully learn something along the way). In short, I do have the resources to make this happen as well should the need arise.
So I'm sorry my lack of jargon and unnecessary technical info causes you to question my skills but I am fully confident my ability to listen to the client, understand their needs, and communicate with them effectively, combined with my attention to detail and the simple ability to get things done will in the end leave them better served than most of these "professionals" of whom you speak.
This has been suggested elsewhere also. I am now leaning in favor of this solution.
Again very useful. After a little additional research this seems like the most viable solution.
Very useful post, thank you!
Do you have any specific vendor recommendations for the multiplexor and modems?
This does look interesting. How reliable has this system been for you? Also, how much time and energy have you needed to support this implementation and what are the most common support scenarios you've encountered?
Is this hotel apart of a hotel chain or is it owned by individuals?
I am not exactly sure of the ownership structure but it is not a chain. Management has full discretion.
Does the company use Comcast Business class internet?
Yes, Comcast is fully aware of this circuit's intended purpose.
Is this hotel Enclosed
No. All walkways are outdoors. The existing APs are in bottom floor rooms.
On top of the internet they are getting do they have a gateway already setup?
No. I am replacing the entire network. I already have ideas for switches, gateways, etc, but why not solicit free outside advice if possible? :)
If your looking to support this your self are you aware most hotel guess don't come in until either very early in the morning or very late at night,
I do work with associates to provide 24/7 availability to clients. I would obviously prefer as centrally managed a system as possible.
One last suggestion if you saw telephone cables used in their setup I would highly recommended you run new cable, just for error rates alone. but in the process of doing that get access points that support POE and you can get a switch that can give it out that way you only have to run 1 cable to the desired location and you can reboot the devices remotely in the last job I had we did this to many hotels and it's saved us lots of money and time because you don't have to tell the hotel staff to unplug power from the devices, or have to wait until morning for the crew who knows where everything is.
I am totally with you here. POE is definitely the preferred option but the wiring consideration is key. My leaning is to cable APs to a few key locations and set up a wireless mesh to fill in the gaps.
Other relevant info:
There are currently ~15 APs on site
The coverage area includes approximately 350 rooms, two courtyards, and the lobby area.
There are four two story buildings that house the rooms.
The total dimensions of the property are ~100m x ~200m
OK, while others here have provided good suggestions you are the first to ask specific and relevant questions.
What is the hotel using now and why does it want to replace it?
They are using a third party provider that manages the entire system. This system includes a paywall that they no longer feel is advantageous to their business. Additionally, they are bringing in Comcast to provide telephone and television services as well.
What is a "proprietary encasement," and who put the APs there? Are you expected to put new APs in the same encasements? What will happen to the old APs?
The existing APs are located in individual bottom floor rooms in two story buildings. They are placed in boxes sealed with tamperproof bolts. The only lines in are what appears to be a standard telephone line and a power cable. There is also a telephone line coming out connected to the telephone. Presumably, the company who manages the current system will take the old APs. The existing networking equipment is also protected from closer inspection though does connect through standard telephone punchdown blocks.
You say the hotel doesn't want to lay any new cable. That might just be too bad, but it also seems to imply that there is already some cable somewhere. Why not use the existing cable? You say the APs "seem to be connected by telephone wire," but you don't sound sure. Perhaps it's just long strings with tin cans at each end? Is there any way to find out?
If new cabling is required then so be it. The owners would just rather it be kept to the absolute minimum necessary.
If the existing network is as strange and nonstandard as you make it sound, why is that? Was there something unique to the property that made that the best solution, and is it smart for you to ignore that?
I think the primary reason again was the desire to avoid new wiring.
Before you begin, have you verified that the hotel's contract with Comcast actually allows it to offer Internet access to the public?
Yes
You say the hotel wants to provide the network for free, so there's no need for any billing management system. Are you then comfortable with the idea that there will be no logging of the network at all, and no record of who might have used it and when? Is BitTorrent OK? How about botnets?
The ability to centrally manage the APs is a strong plus. Additionally, logging is not highly critical but the ability to ensure that bandwidth is distributed as equitably as possible would be nice. Yes, I would like the ability to restrict botnets and other undesirable traffic.
If the patrons aren't expected to pay for the network, can they expect it to exist at all? That is, do you have a plan to test and verify that every room will have equal access to the network, and that a guest who came last summer won't return this summer and find out that the hotel doesn't seem to have WiFi anymore (when in fact it's just their new room)?
It should be available throughout. I do plan to test signal strength from every room.
Are you aware of FCC regulations regarding signal strength of your antennas, for those portions of the property that might be natural dark spots?
Yes, I will add APs as needed
Does your task include just replacing the network or does it also include managing the network, making repairs, etc.? How much time do you plan to devote to that?
I will be managing the system also. I do not wish to devote a tremendous amount of time to managing this system once it is in place. A central management console will be highly valued.
Exactly. Add-ons are the only reason I use Firefox. If they simply start breaking at random I might as well just use Chrome.
If I had points I wouldn't know whether to mod this funny or informative.
No, fungi are their own kingdom.
You obviously have no idea how a book making works. Any bookie actually putting his own money on the line wouldn't last very long.
That is probably why it is modded as Funny. Everybody knows that Fox News commentators don't express relevant opinions. They only spread fear and misinformation to people who don't want any annoying facts disrupting their world view.
Unfortunately for this country, you are absolutely correct.
True but this congress has used the filibuster for solely political purposes and far more often than any congress in history. When a bill to extended unemployment insurance passes with a 98-0 vote after Dems overcame the filibuster it is obvious that the Republicans are being purely obstructionist and at the country's expense.
Thank you for being the only one in this thread to realize that the Supreme Court is "The United States Court of Appeals". Everybody else on this thread needs a civics lesson. Unfortunately I also believe you are correct on the 5-4 split. Personally I think somebody should find a way to get an attractive young law clerk working in Thomas' office. I know he is old but he is prone to sexual harassment and a good scandal could force him to resign. Of course if Scalia would just throw himself out a window that could do the trick too.
You haven't installed SP2 yet?
Brings up a interesting point, is there an addon/other way to make Firefox not use arial even if its installed and the page explicitly requests it?
Stylish will allow you to customize any website using custom css. There are many pre-configured themes for popular websites that you can download and install... including slashdot.
The problem with that as demonstrated by recent experience is that they aren't the only ones hurt by this activity. These repercussions have negative consequences throughout the economy. I have nothing against somebody becoming wealthy but not at the risk endangering the financial stability of the broader economy. What ever happened to earning money by providing a valuable product or service and doing so better or cheaper than the competition. As a business model that will stand the test of time AND grow the larger economy at the same time.