There is no "beyond all reasonable doubt" in mathematics!
1 + 1 = 2
I see no doubt here, thus, you're wrong.
What you should have been arguing is "probability", not "mathematics". Mathematics, by definition, is certainty, because is deals with quantities. Probability, by definition, is uncertainty, because it deals with possibilities. Mathematics is merely a tool used in calculating probability.
He already balked at $600 folks. His problem isn't finding the right cooling solution, it's getting the proper funding and support from management for what he needs to properly cool the equipment.
People in his org aren't having the right conversations. They're not willing to spend $600 to save multiple thousands in fried gear?
at0mic26 you need to have the proper conversation with your higher ups.
Get less political and more educated please Doc Ruby. This issue has nothing to do with anything you've stated above.
What is does have to do with is the fact that states aren't allowed to tax interstate commerce, only intrastate commerce, according to the U.S. constitution and amendments thereof. Interstate commerce is the purvey of the federal government.
Therefore, states lose retail sales tax revenues when consumers order products via catalog or internet from businesses in other states instead of from the local Worst Buy, for example.
In this particular case, if New York succeeds with this new law, the tax revenue generated will go into the coffers in Albany, *NOT* Washington D.C. I can't comprehend how you believe any of your diatribe above has anything to do with the article at hand.
Any attempt to enter the market without a license would bring down Intel legal on them like flying monkeys blackening the sky.
How is it that AMD is able to release x86 chips, but nVidia can't without a license from Intel? Why would nVidia need AMD to be gracious?
nVidia could do so without a license from anyone. The problem here is that it would have to be a 'clean sheet' design to avoid AMD and Intel patents. This is very, very difficult to do, especially if one has no engineers on staff who have worked on previous x86 designs.
The last company to do this, successfully anyway, that I'm aware of, was Nexgen. The company was founded by a group of engineers who left Intel around 1993/94 thinking they could build a better x86 'mousetrap'. They did. They created the first RISC/CISC hybrid core which was first implemented in the Nx586.
Because Nexgen designed a RISC core with a fixed length instruction set and executed the variable length x86 instructions decoded as multiple sequences of the RISC instructions, they avoided all of Intel's patents relating to the ISA. They also used a different pin out with their first chip, thus avoiding Intel's motherboard interface (socket) patents. Intel later adopted a similar RISC/CISC microarchitecture starting with the Pentium Pro. AMD then acquired Nexgen, put the Nx686 into a socket 7 pinout due to their Intel license and sold it as the AMD K6, a direct competitor to the Pentium. From that point forward, all Intel and AMD x86 core designs are based on this RISC/CISC concept, including the current quad core chips. That's 12 years of the same basic microarchitecture.
If you want good x86 performance today, you have to use this RISC86 (TM AMD) like RISC/CISC core design in order to enable pipelining. AMD owns the RISC86 patent due to the Nexgen acuisition:
If you don't your performance ends up like VIA's chips which are still using a plain old fully CISC core.
In summary, unless nVidia does an extremely clever clean sheet design based on something like VLIW and decoding/emulation, they must have licenses for some x86 related patents from either Intel or AMD to build a competitive chip. Intel and Transmeta already tried the VLIW route for x86 emulation and the performance was abysmal. So, as I've explained here, nVidia has two options: build or buy. If they try the clean sheet route they may bankrupt themselves due to R&D costs before they succeed. That's a huge gamble to make with shareholders' money. The only smart way for nVidia to enter this chip segment is by acquiring a company who already owns the relevant patents or has the necessary licenses, or to write a check for a license to the patents. And apparently, neither AMD nor Intel are willing to accept such a check, or have demanded a figure on it greater than nVidia is willing to pay.
If you're still a bit unclear on the x86 patent stuff...
Intel owns patents on: x86 ISA, x86 microcode, back side L2 cache bus, AGTL+ CPU to chipset interface bus logic
AMD owns patents on: x86-64 ISA, RISC-86 decoder core
This is by no means a complete list of each company's relevant patents, but demonstrates those minimally necessary to even think about building a competitive chip.
I'll throw this trivia in here as many of you are likely unaware of it. The "back side cache bus" mentioned above, that came to PCs with the Pentium Pro and has been with every chip since, was invented by a RISC workstation company or yore called Intergraph. To give you an idea of how important this back side bus is, disable the L2 cache in your system BIOS and then run a game. You'll lose about 80% of your PC's performance--no joke, try it. They had their own propriety RISC processor called the Clipper chip, and it was at the time the fastest thing on planet, mainly d
The Silicon valley chess game is always an interesting one to watch. Pretty much everyone agrees nVidia must make some strategic move in order to survive in the market. Discreet GPU cards and mobo chipsets aren't enough to drive the company in the long haul with Intel and AMD both trying to integrate good performing GPUs into the x86 CPU.
AMD made a strategic financial blunder acquiring ATI. nVidia is likely not working on their own x86 design, but watching, anticipating, the continued downward financial spiral of AMD, waiting for the right moment for a hostile takeover. That, IMO, is the only real likely way that nVidia will break into the x86 CPU business.
I'm wondering why they are still going in this direction, as hard drives are the slowest part of a computer. Why hasn't a solid state / flash ram approach taken over? Is it feasible to have a hybrid solid state/mechanical solution?
Yes. There are already a couple such hybrid products on the market, though I can't recall the manufacturers.
The co-authors of the original article are employed by IBM and VMWare. That would suggest we should at least hear them out before dismissing them as clueless.
It might also suggest we'll soon see pushes from both companies saying you'll be safer if you run everything in virtual machines which will somehow mitigate the potential damage of this "new threat". IBM bladeservers with ESX or zSeries with Linux VMs, both using EMC SAN storage. Both companies make money all the way around.
Black Hats don't buy tickets at all. We sneak into the venue the night before via the unsecured catacombs running beneath the venue building, break into the switch closet, find and unused switch port, do some snorting, then jack a wireless ethernet bridge with a custom made ultra high gain antenna into the switch.
We then sneak into the auditorium and conceal a few modded cell phones in/around the podium.
We then sneak back out and camp out in the back of our hijacked GeekSquad van in the ally, and sniff out the security camera video feeds that are being sent to DVRs.
Once the conference starts, we dial up cell phone #1 so we have audio to go along with the video. The cell phones' speakers have been removed and they're modded so they don't ring when called, but auto answer. Going through the day, as each phone battery dies, we dial the next phone.
I bet the opinions demonstrated in the 1.759 million characters of text in this/. thread are going to convince Mozilla to change their mind and redo the code.
By the definition of Terrorist in your sig, I was a terrorist in the minds of my athletic opponents back in high school, and Almighty God is a terrorist in the minds of many followers of the western religions including and descending from Judaism. Oh, throw great white sharks in as terrorists too, as being killed by Al Qaeda holds about the same probability as being attacked by Jaws. Yet in this case, the fear of Jaws is likely much greater than that of Al Qaeda.
Define 'government involvement'. Boeing and Lockheed Martin (and others) design and produce satellite launchers without 'government involvement'. The only 'government involvement' is the case in which the payload being sent into orbit is owned by the government, not the private sector.
There is a very large civilian satellite launch industry, so you are wrong, this isn't an industry wide failure.
You are singling out a fledgling company in a sector, and blaming their failures on some 'category' of your fancy. The truth of the matter lies in their relative inexperience in rocketry. Read your history and you'll see that these endeavors entail a very steep learning curve, whether the government or private sector is footing the bill, and there are always many more failures than successes early on.
VIA designed it to be 'adequate' -- not to win the crypto crown. They couldn't do decent crypto in software alone due to the narrow instruction pipeline and low clock speed of their chips. Thus, they've created a solution to provide 'acceptable' crypto performance for the average user, while maintaining the low power consumption characteristics of their chips. I'd say they hit the mark beautifully.
I've not cycled my SMC 7008ABR in over 2 years and it's configured for PPPoE on the WAN port. Thus your position on PPPoE doesn't really carry much weight. I'm glad I've not had to cycle it, as the power and reset buttons are on the back of the unit.
It's a shame SMC discontinued this model. It's simply awesome, esp for what I gave for it, about $80. I believe they still offer the non rack mount little brother, the 7004.
What you're seeing isn't necessarily only ARP packets, but all the traffic of your neighbors. Cable TV company broadband networks are built of physically shared cable, thus any packets on the wire are going to be seen by all the cable modems on the shared segment, just like un-switched ethernet networks. The traffic LED flashing you're seeing isn't just ARP packets, it's ALL packets from all your neighbors, and it's not just Comcast.
Charter, Time Warner, all of the cable networks 'suffer' from this. Back in the day before people got smart and started using firewalls, one could see all his/her neighbors' Windows computers in Network Neighborhood and browse open SMB shares on neighbors' computers.
Unstable power, as previously mentioned, is the likely culprit in most circumstances where folks have to reboot home broadband routers.
I have an SMC rack mount SOHO broadband router here at home. Twas the only one I could find back when I went looking for an RM consumer grade/price broadband router. Was $80 back in 2004. It's pretty nice, 8 port 10/100 switch, parallel port print server, SPI firewall w/ attack detection, PPPoE, DynDNS, DHCP server, etc. Vxworks based firmware.
I have it powered by an APC RM1400 in the bottom of the rack. I can't state exact uptime with certainty as the firmware doesn't provide uptime, but I know for a fact I've not power cycled or reset the SMC in over 2 years.
I have had to reset my DSL modem at least once in that time frame however. It's a SpeedStream 5260 transparent ethernet bridge, so I can only assume there was some kind of ATM or analog signaling problem between it and the DSLAM that caused it to freeze. That's only happened about 4 or 5 times in the 7 years I've had DSL.
"As two small motorboats approached the Spirit, pirates began firing rocket-propelled grenades and machine guns at the ship, operated by Miami-based Seabourn Cruise Line, a Carnival Corp. subsidiary. No passengers were injured, and just one crew member was wounded. Putnam said he did not know if the ship's crew issued a verbal challenge to the pirates before the LRAD blared more punishing, high-intensity sounds. The crew also fended off the attackers with water hoses as the cruise ship Seabourn Spirit changed course and moved away, using its wake to thwart the pirates' small boats."
OMG! They just wanted to sell you cigarettes, even though they shot rockets and machine guns at you! Those poor pirates! OMG! OMG! You didn't have to use that terrible LRAD weapon on them! You are evil for defending your passengers with the LRAD!
"Outside the convention hall, New York City police plan to control protesters using a device that directs sound for up to 1,500 feet in a spotlight-like beam. Meanwhile, a display of former Republican presidents inside the hall will feature campaign speeches that are funneled to listeners through highly focused audio beams."
OMG! NYPD used LRADs on US Citizens! Lynch them!
OOOOh-Myyyyy-Godddddddd! The Republicans used LRADs on their own members! OMG! OMG! OMG! They are the ultimate evil! What vicious monsters! They used these weapons on their fellow Republicans! Everyone convert to Democrat! Everyone convert to Democrat! It's just a matter of time before your own party uses sound weapons on you again!
crosenkreutz, is a fire hose on a fire truck a weapon? They are used for "shooting" crowds as well, in order to disperse and/or control them. I've been hit by the discharge stream of a fire hose (not for disturbance, it was an educational exercise), and it DOES hurt. And plugging your ears doesn't help, although it may keep the water out.
Have YOU ever considered a fire hose a "weapon"? Before now?
Are you using the word "weapon" in regards to these sound producing devices (typically called a speaker or sound transducer), because YOU *believe* they are weapons, or because *someone else* used the word weapon in describing them, so you're just repeating the term, assuming it's correct, since others are using it?
Does the mere fact that 3000 other bloggers and "news" outlets have called it a weapon, mean it absolutely must be, or 3000 people wouldn't have called it that?
Is it a weapon because it looks mean? Because it's only sold to military and law enforcement? Because in all the pictures the guy standing next to it is in tactical gear or camo?
What exactly makes it a weapon? Can you explain to us why it is a "weapon"?
Thanks HEbGb. I've been trying to get it into their thick skulls. I flipped my top so bad when I first read this crap that I unloaded on them. And even after dragging their noses through the logic of just the mis-linking, they still didn't get it. After a day of calming down, I tried to actually give info showing them why they are wrong. Your link to the Wiki article (thank you), which I reposted again, may help bring these nubs around.
If/. doesn't get their editorial house in order soon, they'll lose all their intelligent readers and contributors to a hoard of mindless non-thinking turds. I think there were 3 of us total saw the headline, hit the two articles, and instantly smelled dead fish. Everyone else immediately swallowed the "Oh my gosh! It'll hurt peoples ears! We must throw up our hands and scream China is evil and we're selling them weapons to use on demonstrators, so we're now evil too!!!"
Ironic. That's exactly what the headline was designed to do. And it worked. So, obviously/. knows the majority of their user base.
I can't say it enough times. The bulk of the readership of/. is now mind-less-sheep, what Michael Savage dubs "sheeple".
"OMG! Savage! He's a right wing nut! That makes you, hardwarefreak, a right wing nut! You may as well stop posting to/. cause no one will every believe anything you type, cause you've been 'found out' to be a right wing nut!"
I swear to the all mighty the above paragraph describes 90% of the current users to a T...
Slashdot Mirror
There is no "beyond all reasonable doubt" in mathematics!
1 + 1 = 2
I see no doubt here, thus, you're wrong.
What you should have been arguing is "probability", not "mathematics". Mathematics, by definition, is certainty, because is deals with quantities. Probability, by definition, is uncertainty, because it deals with possibilities. Mathematics is merely a tool used in calculating probability.
He already balked at $600 folks. His problem isn't finding the right cooling solution, it's getting the proper funding and support from management for what he needs to properly cool the equipment.
People in his org aren't having the right conversations. They're not willing to spend $600 to save multiple thousands in fried gear?
at0mic26 you need to have the proper conversation with your higher ups.
Get less political and more educated please Doc Ruby. This issue has nothing to do with anything you've stated above.
What is does have to do with is the fact that states aren't allowed to tax interstate commerce, only intrastate commerce, according to the U.S. constitution and amendments thereof. Interstate commerce is the purvey of the federal government.
Therefore, states lose retail sales tax revenues when consumers order products via catalog or internet from businesses in other states instead of from the local Worst Buy, for example.
In this particular case, if New York succeeds with this new law, the tax revenue generated will go into the coffers in Albany, *NOT* Washington D.C. I can't comprehend how you believe any of your diatribe above has anything to do with the article at hand.
When you unsummon this zig, what happens to those 1.1 million peeps inside? Do they all go instantly into the sacrificial pit?
How is it that AMD is able to release x86 chips, but nVidia can't without a license from Intel? Why would nVidia need AMD to be gracious?
nVidia could do so without a license from anyone. The problem here is that it would have to be a 'clean sheet' design to avoid AMD and Intel patents. This is very, very difficult to do, especially if one has no engineers on staff who have worked on previous x86 designs.
The last company to do this, successfully anyway, that I'm aware of, was Nexgen. The company was founded by a group of engineers who left Intel around 1993/94 thinking they could build a better x86 'mousetrap'. They did. They created the first RISC/CISC hybrid core which was first implemented in the Nx586.
Because Nexgen designed a RISC core with a fixed length instruction set and executed the variable length x86 instructions decoded as multiple sequences of the RISC instructions, they avoided all of Intel's patents relating to the ISA. They also used a different pin out with their first chip, thus avoiding Intel's motherboard interface (socket) patents. Intel later adopted a similar RISC/CISC microarchitecture starting with the Pentium Pro. AMD then acquired Nexgen, put the Nx686 into a socket 7 pinout due to their Intel license and sold it as the AMD K6, a direct competitor to the Pentium. From that point forward, all Intel and AMD x86 core designs are based on this RISC/CISC concept, including the current quad core chips. That's 12 years of the same basic microarchitecture.
If you want good x86 performance today, you have to use this RISC86 (TM AMD) like RISC/CISC core design in order to enable pipelining. AMD owns the RISC86 patent due to the Nexgen acuisition:
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5926642/description.html
If you don't your performance ends up like VIA's chips which are still using a plain old fully CISC core.
In summary, unless nVidia does an extremely clever clean sheet design based on something like VLIW and decoding/emulation, they must have licenses for some x86 related patents from either Intel or AMD to build a competitive chip. Intel and Transmeta already tried the VLIW route for x86 emulation and the performance was abysmal. So, as I've explained here, nVidia has two options: build or buy. If they try the clean sheet route they may bankrupt themselves due to R&D costs before they succeed. That's a huge gamble to make with shareholders' money. The only smart way for nVidia to enter this chip segment is by acquiring a company who already owns the relevant patents or has the necessary licenses, or to write a check for a license to the patents. And apparently, neither AMD nor Intel are willing to accept such a check, or have demanded a figure on it greater than nVidia is willing to pay.
If you're still a bit unclear on the x86 patent stuff...
Intel owns patents on:
x86 ISA, x86 microcode, back side L2 cache bus, AGTL+ CPU to chipset interface bus logic
AMD owns patents on: x86-64 ISA, RISC-86 decoder core
This is by no means a complete list of each company's relevant patents, but demonstrates those minimally necessary to even think about building a competitive chip.
I'll throw this trivia in here as many of you are likely unaware of it. The "back side cache bus" mentioned above, that came to PCs with the Pentium Pro and has been with every chip since, was invented by a RISC workstation company or yore called Intergraph. To give you an idea of how important this back side bus is, disable the L2 cache in your system BIOS and then run a game. You'll lose about 80% of your PC's performance--no joke, try it. They had their own propriety RISC processor called the Clipper chip, and it was at the time the fastest thing on planet, mainly d
The Silicon valley chess game is always an interesting one to watch. Pretty much everyone agrees nVidia must make some strategic move in order to survive in the market. Discreet GPU cards and mobo chipsets aren't enough to drive the company in the long haul with Intel and AMD both trying to integrate good performing GPUs into the x86 CPU.
AMD made a strategic financial blunder acquiring ATI. nVidia is likely not working on their own x86 design, but watching, anticipating, the continued downward financial spiral of AMD, waiting for the right moment for a hostile takeover. That, IMO, is the only real likely way that nVidia will break into the x86 CPU business.
I'm wondering why they are still going in this direction, as hard drives are the slowest part of a computer. Why hasn't a solid state / flash ram approach taken over? Is it feasible to have a hybrid solid state/mechanical solution?
Yes. There are already a couple such hybrid products on the market, though I can't recall the manufacturers.
The co-authors of the original article are employed by IBM and VMWare. That would suggest we should at least hear them out before dismissing them as clueless.
It might also suggest we'll soon see pushes from both companies saying you'll be safer if you run everything in virtual machines which will somehow mitigate the potential damage of this "new threat". IBM bladeservers with ESX or zSeries with Linux VMs, both using EMC SAN storage. Both companies make money all the way around.
Black Hats don't buy tickets at all. We sneak into the venue the night before via the unsecured catacombs running beneath the venue building, break into the switch closet, find and unused switch port, do some snorting, then jack a wireless ethernet bridge with a custom made ultra high gain antenna into the switch.
We then sneak into the auditorium and conceal a few modded cell phones in/around the podium.
We then sneak back out and camp out in the back of our hijacked GeekSquad van in the ally, and sniff out the security camera video feeds that are being sent to DVRs.
Once the conference starts, we dial up cell phone #1 so we have audio to go along with the video. The cell phones' speakers have been removed and they're modded so they don't ring when called, but auto answer. Going through the day, as each phone battery dies, we dial the next phone.
Maybe I should have posted this anonymously...
I bet the opinions demonstrated in the 1.759 million characters of text in this /. thread are going to convince Mozilla to change their mind and redo the code.
By the definition of Terrorist in your sig, I was a terrorist in the minds of my athletic opponents back in high school, and Almighty God is a terrorist in the minds of many followers of the western religions including and descending from Judaism. Oh, throw great white sharks in as terrorists too, as being killed by Al Qaeda holds about the same probability as being attacked by Jaws. Yet in this case, the fear of Jaws is likely much greater than that of Al Qaeda.
That's all the reason people need to use the spam button. Can you honestly say you've never done it?
What's this 'spam button' to which you refer? Is this something you click, or a euphemism?
Is it like when I take the SMTP client IP from the header and add its /24 or /16 CIDR to my Postfix server's block list? :P
Define 'government involvement'. Boeing and Lockheed Martin (and others) design and produce satellite launchers without 'government involvement'. The only 'government involvement' is the case in which the payload being sent into orbit is owned by the government, not the private sector.
There is a very large civilian satellite launch industry, so you are wrong, this isn't an industry wide failure.
You are singling out a fledgling company in a sector, and blaming their failures on some 'category' of your fancy. The truth of the matter lies in their relative inexperience in rocketry. Read your history and you'll see that these endeavors entail a very steep learning curve, whether the government or private sector is footing the bill, and there are always many more failures than successes early on.
VIA designed it to be 'adequate' -- not to win the crypto crown. They couldn't do decent crypto in software alone due to the narrow instruction pipeline and low clock speed of their chips. Thus, they've created a solution to provide 'acceptable' crypto performance for the average user, while maintaining the low power consumption characteristics of their chips. I'd say they hit the mark beautifully.
Will over clocking the Charmin finally eliminate those little fuzz balls that cling?
Correction: the reset button is actually on the front of the unit. I guess I never realized this before as I've never had to use it.
I've not cycled my SMC 7008ABR in over 2 years and it's configured for PPPoE on the WAN port. Thus your position on PPPoE doesn't really carry much weight. I'm glad I've not had to cycle it, as the power and reset buttons are on the back of the unit.
It's a shame SMC discontinued this model. It's simply awesome, esp for what I gave for it, about $80. I believe they still offer the non rack mount little brother, the 7004.
What you're seeing isn't necessarily only ARP packets, but all the traffic of your neighbors. Cable TV company broadband networks are built of physically shared cable, thus any packets on the wire are going to be seen by all the cable modems on the shared segment, just like un-switched ethernet networks. The traffic LED flashing you're seeing isn't just ARP packets, it's ALL packets from all your neighbors, and it's not just Comcast.
Charter, Time Warner, all of the cable networks 'suffer' from this. Back in the day before people got smart and started using firewalls, one could see all his/her neighbors' Windows computers in Network Neighborhood and browse open SMB shares on neighbors' computers.
Unstable power, as previously mentioned, is the likely culprit in most circumstances where folks have to reboot home broadband routers.
I have an SMC rack mount SOHO broadband router here at home. Twas the only one I could find back when I went looking for an RM consumer grade/price broadband router. Was $80 back in 2004. It's pretty nice, 8 port 10/100 switch, parallel port print server, SPI firewall w/ attack detection, PPPoE, DynDNS, DHCP server, etc. Vxworks based firmware.
I have it powered by an APC RM1400 in the bottom of the rack. I can't state exact uptime with certainty as the firmware doesn't provide uptime, but I know for a fact I've not power cycled or reset the SMC in over 2 years.
I have had to reset my DSL modem at least once in that time frame however. It's a SpeedStream 5260 transparent ethernet bridge, so I can only assume there was some kind of ATM or analog signaling problem between it and the DSLAM that caused it to freeze. That's only happened about 4 or 5 times in the 7 years I've had DSL.
On the same street, in fact.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20051109/news_1b9cruise.html
"As two small motorboats approached the Spirit, pirates began firing rocket-propelled grenades and machine guns at the ship, operated by Miami-based Seabourn Cruise Line, a Carnival Corp. subsidiary. No passengers were injured, and just one crew member was wounded. Putnam said he did not know if the ship's crew issued a verbal challenge to the pirates before the LRAD blared more punishing, high-intensity sounds. The crew also fended off the attackers with water hoses as the cruise ship Seabourn Spirit changed course and moved away, using its wake to thwart the pirates' small boats."
OMG! They just wanted to sell you cigarettes, even though they shot rockets and machine guns at you! Those poor pirates! OMG! OMG! You didn't have to use that terrible LRAD weapon on them! You are evil for defending your passengers with the LRAD!
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=99472
"Outside the convention hall, New York City police plan to control protesters using a device that directs sound for up to 1,500 feet in a spotlight-like beam. Meanwhile, a display of former Republican presidents inside the hall will feature campaign speeches that are funneled to listeners through highly focused audio beams."
OMG! NYPD used LRADs on US Citizens! Lynch them!
OOOOh-Myyyyy-Godddddddd! The Republicans used LRADs on their own members! OMG! OMG! OMG! They are the ultimate evil! What vicious monsters! They used these weapons on their fellow Republicans! Everyone convert to Democrat! Everyone convert to Democrat! It's just a matter of time before your own party uses sound weapons on you again!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lrad.jpg
OMG! We're arming cruise ships with these LRAD weapons! OMG OMG! They're going to use them to hurt the ears of the passengers!
Here it is again. Mindless sheep.
crosenkreutz, is a fire hose on a fire truck a weapon? They are used for "shooting" crowds as well, in order to disperse and/or control them. I've been hit by the discharge stream of a fire hose (not for disturbance, it was an educational exercise), and it DOES hurt. And plugging your ears doesn't help, although it may keep the water out.
Have YOU ever considered a fire hose a "weapon"? Before now?
Are you using the word "weapon" in regards to these sound producing devices (typically called a speaker or sound transducer), because YOU *believe* they are weapons, or because *someone else* used the word weapon in describing them, so you're just repeating the term, assuming it's correct, since others are using it?
Does the mere fact that 3000 other bloggers and "news" outlets have called it a weapon, mean it absolutely must be, or 3000 people wouldn't have called it that?
Is it a weapon because it looks mean? Because it's only sold to military and law enforcement? Because in all the pictures the guy standing next to it is in tactical gear or camo?
What exactly makes it a weapon? Can you explain to us why it is a "weapon"?
Please do. Convince me.
Thanks HEbGb. I've been trying to get it into their thick skulls. I flipped my top so bad when I first read this crap that I unloaded on them. And even after dragging their noses through the logic of just the mis-linking, they still didn't get it. After a day of calming down, I tried to actually give info showing them why they are wrong. Your link to the Wiki article (thank you), which I reposted again, may help bring these nubs around.
/. doesn't get their editorial house in order soon, they'll lose all their intelligent readers and contributors to a hoard of mindless non-thinking turds. I think there were 3 of us total saw the headline, hit the two articles, and instantly smelled dead fish. Everyone else immediately swallowed the "Oh my gosh! It'll hurt peoples ears! We must throw up our hands and scream China is evil and we're selling them weapons to use on demonstrators, so we're now evil too!!!"
/. knows the majority of their user base.
/. is now mind-less-sheep, what Michael Savage dubs "sheeple".
/. cause no one will every believe anything you type, cause you've been 'found out' to be a right wing nut!"
If
Ironic. That's exactly what the headline was designed to do. And it worked. So, obviously
I can't say it enough times. The bulk of the readership of
"OMG! Savage! He's a right wing nut! That makes you, hardwarefreak, a right wing nut! You may as well stop posting to
I swear to the all mighty the above paragraph describes 90% of the current users to a T...