Thanks for pointing out the facts about Blackdown, I took these links from a bookmark folder I had named "open-source java", it would seem I need to split it into two folders, one named "java under linux".
Even if they didn't, Sun takes the position that everybody that implements Java has to pass compatibility tests.
I believe that Sun allows people to clone Java...as long as they don't call it Java. Some parts of.Net for instance is big blocks of Java code with just ReCapitalizedMethodNames. Same with Kaffe... it has been around since...1998? If Sun is so eager to shut it down, why haven't they?
Sun has demonstrated that they will go to court to enforce those provisions when it suits their business needs, so there is even a precedent.
What precedent? If you are thinking about Microsoft, they broke the contract with Sun which specifically stated that they if Microsoft wanted to add something to Java they had to do an external jar like everyone else. Microsoft started changing classes in the java.* package which broke the standard and made it Windows exclusive.
With regards to the rest of my links, you seem to exclude them because they "are behind". I already said they were behind, I said I believe that will change if Sun starts to behave like an asshole.
Face it, Java just isn't an open platform. It is intrinsically impossible to have an open platform with enforceable compatibility standards. It's one or the other.
As was pointed out in another topic today, the first versions of the GNU tools and Linux were written with proprietary tools, on proprietary OSes. Things can move in the direction towards more free, the fact that they come from a less free environment doesn't mean they are tainted forever.
Sun has chosen the latter and so have you apparently. Live with your choice, but don't pretend that it's something it isn't.
Hey, no need to get snippy. I may be mistaken, but accusing me of lying is unfair.
Java is the language I am most productive in, but I am learning C/C++/Python too just to be on the safe side (and because it's interesting!)
Sure, a lot of these projects are far behind the official Java in version and capabilities today, but if Sun would suddenly change the licensing or start to charge people for using Java, there are a huge amount of companies (IBM, Oracle, BEA...) with too much invested in Java, and a huge number of experienced Java programmers. Don't you think they would sponsor these projects to quickly get a viable open source alternative up and running?
I once worked with a guy who was by objective measures the weakest link -- least intelligent, least industrious, least knowledgeable. And this was in an outfit full of bright, knowledgeable, hard driving people. He turned out to be very important because he was the only person who didn't scare crap out of the customers. Mind you the other guys were respected, just that they didn't make normal people feel at ease. If I had been his manager, I'd have ranked him ahead of the more deserving employees, because he brought someting to the team that was missing. That's what capitalism is about: it's not rewarding virtue, its efficiently using resources.
Perhaps it did reward a virtue, the virtue of social competence?
Java is not going to become the end-all be-all of enterprise software. Microsoft, Linux, and UNIX have all already done a fine job of that (or very close to it).
Right, an operating system is the same thing as enterprise software and completely replaces it. What have you been smoking? What have the moderators been smoking??
I believe [Microsoft]. Because they have lots of money to put where their mouth is.
Well, Microsoft are currently putting their money where McNealy's mouth has been. What is.Net if not a complete endorsement of the vision Sun have been preaching for decades?
I should add that one thing I have done which has greatly helped with this is double booting with Linux. Default OS at startup is always Linux, and there I have all my important files, programming and productivity tools. I can still get distracted by web surfing (like now...evil evil Slashdot...), but I can't start playing games until I reboot the system and start into my toy OS... you know the one.:-)
And lets face it; there are essentially only two gaming engines for the PC, id's Quake and Epic's Unreal.
Yes, because we know the only games that exist are FPS games, right?
When my friends started playing console games (mainly Japanese RPGs), it was because these games cared more about plot, and gaming experience (just trying to make a FUN game). A lot of PC game developers, PC gaming magazines and PC players just seemed to care about frames per second, maximum polygons, shaders...
One thing no one ever mentions when the whole console vs. PC gaming debate comes up is whether or not you can actually get any gaming done on your PC. I know myself that I have a tendency to want to check my E-mail, oh and then there's a website I need to read, and I need to burn this CD, etc. until all of a sudden it's too late to do any gaming.
Um, so your problem is that you get distracted from your gaming productivity by things? My problem tends to be the reverse. I sit down by my computer intending to write that important essay or whatever thing I have been putting off, but somehow my mouse slips and I start (Baldur's Gate 2, UT2004, Halo, whatever).
"No! Bad computer! Oh what the hell, just a little bit then.... Ooops, is it midnight already?"
install a solid fuel motor onto an asteroid and propel it into Earth's orbit. Wait a few years and BAM! 100 billion dollars worth of minerals.... falling on top of your head. Priceless!
If you are the same AC who posted before, your arguments are getting weaker and weaker... what does ad-hominem attacks on me and my politics have to do with open sourcing java?
And no, I'm not "affiliated", I just choose to post the link.
As long as you pay the fee, swear eternal fealty to Sun Microsystem Incorporated
No, you sign an agreement, the terms are not that harsh. There is no fee for individual memebers.
name all your software projects after coffee
Actually, after several years it was agreed that astronomyrelated names also were acceptable.;-)
After this initiation ritual, you will be allowed to observe the gods of Java as they restlessly toil, and finally, after a ten years apprenticeship you will be allowed to speak.
Compare this with Mono: Join mailing list. Say "Hey, I'd like to suggest/try this". Response: "Cool!"
Well, I can mail one of my friends and say "Hey, I'm going to build a spaceship!". He might reply "Cool", or maybe "So you have finally lost your last shreds of sanity then?". So what? What do my friends or Mono have anything to do with the JCP?
Interesting that you keep getting more mod points for funny, even though, as earlier replies to you have pointed out, your joke is wrong by at least 33 years or so. Java on java has existed for years.
The porting will be done by Sun's Java team using a Java IDE and Java compilers on thin-client boxes powered by Java.
The fascinating thing is that these things all exist and are developing at a furious pace.
McNealy answered, "You are missing the point."
Well, a lot of people on Slashot seem to be missing McNealy's point, so I guess that makes things even.:-)
The source for Java is available for download. You are free to make a Java clone, as long as you don't call it Java (just like Microsoft has done with C#/.Net). You can join the Java Community Project and influence how Java is developed. Are the possible risks for Sun worth what little more Sun could gain by Open Sourcing it? Doubtful.
I just wanted to thank the author of the review for one of the first good reviews I have read on Slashdot. Too often reviewers are basically just listing the table of contents and adding "and I liked it" at the end.
Here for once we have someone who goes a bit more in depth and tries to evaluate impartially the things the book discuss. Amazing!
You can actually have wood panelling right next to metal that is so hot it's glowing red without the wood smoldering.
Perhaps I should clarify that by "next to" I didn't mean touching of course, but a couple of centemeters away... and at least when the pipes from the fireplace is glowing dark to medium red there is no problem with the wood catching fire or even getting very warm, I know from personal experience.
If it is getting cherry red or bright red I might start to worry, both about the wood being burnt, and the metal getting deformed.:-)
Definitely not the case and/or setup for those overclockers out there:) especially with heat output getting real close to 100W...
That does not really matter. As others have pointed out, the heat disappation of your metal case is close to zero compared to how much is dissappated by the air circulated by your case fans, so switching to wood won't make any difference.
There are lots of predicatble jokes here about it catching fire, but most traditional Finnish saunas are made from wood. You can actually have wood panelling right next to metal that is so hot it's glowing red without the wood smoldering. Though just like with saunas, it would probably be best not to use wood that is impregnated or treated with anything for the cases, as that might give off not very healthy gasses if warmed up.
With regards to being heavy - it might be a bit bulky, but I think I read wood is actually one of the strongest materials compared to its weight in the world. Hey, here is an idea, how about spider silk cases?
Finally, the environmental question: wood is about as renewable resource as there is, and we have lots of it in Sweden. As long as the wood doesn't come from protected forests ("ur-skog") or rainforests, you can't really get more environmentally friendly.
Now, the Jedi should have been a class you can start with. Base you power on deeds, and have a Good/Dark meter. when you get REALLY good, or Evil, you start to get the bizarro powers.
Well, you sum up one of the problems with MMORPGs - when everyone is a hero, no one is a hero.
Also, if a newbie gets the most powerful class/weapon in the fictional universe first thing, what can they strive for later? I mean, if every newbie gets a lightblade and runs around whacking things with it, what differs that from giving a newbie a rusty knife and letting them run around whacking things with it?
You are also indicative of another problem that haunts developers, everyone wants the game to be tailored for their specific playing style, and seem to be unable to grasp that the developers have to take into consideration all the different playing styles. Power gamers, plot/character RPGers, PKers, casual gamers...
I'm not saying how they handled Jedi in the game was perfect, but I think it was right of them to make it something special and something to strive for.
Tantrum? I'm delighted. In order to protect their monopoly on all fronts they are spreading their resources thinner and thinner in order to combat the various threats from competitors, open Source and open standards (for instance Linux, Open Office/Star Office, Java, XML, Mobile platforms) This means loss of focus, low quality, delayed releases. And hopefully their downfall.
Styrofoam should be a preferred material based on how well it can be recycled.
Perhaps it can be recycled well in theory, but it is rare for it to be recycled, especially when used for fast food containers.
A lot of people just throw it wherever, and once out in nature it lasts virtually forever, unlike products made from alternative materials like paper and starch.
If you use Mozilla/Firefox you can install Flash Click to View from http://extensionroom.mozdev.org/more-info.ph p/flas hclick (Remove the space inserted into the link by Slashdot) With the plugin, the browser loads the Flash content but displays a blank button with the text "click to view" instead of the animation. So now you can go to the site that require flash, but won't be bothered unless you want to.
With regards to the full motion video - where do they find the drooling idiots in the test group who want the net to resemble TV more? Do you believe the "only 28% of users found it annoying", or are the advertisers lying? (And why not, it's basically their job anyway)
Slashdot Mirror
Thanks for pointing out the facts about Blackdown, I took these links from a bookmark folder I had named "open-source java", it would seem I need to split it into two folders, one named "java under linux".
.Net for instance is big blocks of Java code with just ReCapitalizedMethodNames. ... it has been around since...1998? If Sun is so eager to shut it down, why haven't they?
Even if they didn't, Sun takes the position that everybody that implements Java has to pass compatibility tests.
I believe that Sun allows people to clone Java...as long as they don't call it Java. Some parts of
Same with Kaffe
Sun has demonstrated that they will go to court to enforce those provisions when it suits their business needs, so there is even a precedent.
What precedent? If you are thinking about Microsoft, they broke the contract with Sun which specifically stated that they if Microsoft wanted to add something to Java they had to do an external jar like everyone else. Microsoft started changing classes in the java.* package which broke the standard and made it Windows exclusive.
With regards to the rest of my links, you seem to exclude them because they "are behind". I already said they were behind, I said I believe that will change if Sun starts to behave like an asshole.
Face it, Java just isn't an open platform. It is intrinsically impossible to have an open platform with enforceable compatibility standards. It's one or the other.
As was pointed out in another topic today, the first versions of the GNU tools and Linux were written with proprietary tools, on proprietary OSes. Things can move in the direction towards more free, the fact that they come from a less free environment doesn't mean they are tainted forever.
Sun has chosen the latter and so have you apparently. Live with your choice, but don't pretend that it's something it isn't.
Hey, no need to get snippy. I may be mistaken, but accusing me of lying is unfair.
Java is the language I am most productive in, but I am learning C/C++/Python too just to be on the safe side (and because it's interesting!)
You see, while Microsoft clearly doesn't own ECMA C#, Sun owns the Java platform and large chunks of its implementation, with no free alternatives.
t ml
No free alternatives? Who is spreading FUD now?
http://www.kaffe.org/
http://www.japhar.org/
http://www.blackdown.org/java-linux.html
http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath/classpath.h
http://gcc.gnu.org/java/
Sure, a lot of these projects are far behind the official Java in version and capabilities today, but if Sun would suddenly change the licensing or start to charge people for using Java, there are a huge amount of companies (IBM, Oracle, BEA...) with too much invested in Java, and a huge number of experienced Java programmers. Don't you think they would sponsor these projects to quickly get a viable open source alternative up and running?
Why not publish the taxing rules and let someone
throw together a Postgresql/Apache software package?
Ahh, the refreshing enthusiasm of the naive. Or perhaps you ment it as a joke and the mods didn't get that?
I once worked with a guy who was by objective measures the weakest link -- least intelligent, least industrious, least knowledgeable. And this was in an outfit full of bright, knowledgeable, hard driving people. He turned out to be very important because he was the only person who didn't scare crap out of the customers. Mind you the other guys were respected, just that they didn't make normal people feel at ease. If I had been his manager, I'd have ranked him ahead of the more deserving employees, because he brought someting to the team that was missing. That's what capitalism is about: it's not rewarding virtue, its efficiently using resources.
Perhaps it did reward a virtue, the virtue of social competence?
Java is not going to become the end-all be-all of enterprise software. Microsoft, Linux, and UNIX have all already done a fine job of that (or very close to it).
.Net if not a complete endorsement of the vision Sun have been preaching for decades?
Right, an operating system is the same thing as enterprise software and completely replaces it. What have you been smoking? What have the moderators been smoking??
I believe [Microsoft]. Because they have lots of money to put where their mouth is.
Well, Microsoft are currently putting their money where McNealy's mouth has been. What is
I should add that one thing I have done which has greatly helped with this is double booting with Linux. Default OS at startup is always Linux, and there I have all my important files, programming and productivity tools. I can still get distracted by web surfing (like now...evil evil Slashdot...), but I can't start playing games until I reboot the system and start into my toy OS... you know the one. :-)
And lets face it; there are essentially only two gaming engines for the PC, id's Quake and Epic's Unreal.
Yes, because we know the only games that exist are FPS games, right?
When my friends started playing console games (mainly Japanese RPGs), it was because these games cared more about plot, and gaming experience (just trying to make a FUN game). A lot of PC game developers, PC gaming magazines and PC players just seemed to care about frames per second, maximum polygons, shaders...
One thing no one ever mentions when the whole console vs. PC gaming debate comes up is whether or not you can actually get any gaming done on your PC. I know myself that I have a tendency to want to check my E-mail, oh and then there's a website I need to read, and I need to burn this CD, etc. until all of a sudden it's too late to do any gaming.
Um, so your problem is that you get distracted from your gaming productivity by things? My problem tends to be the reverse. I sit down by my computer intending to write that important essay or whatever thing I have been putting off, but somehow my mouse slips and I start (Baldur's Gate 2, UT2004, Halo, whatever).
"No! Bad computer! Oh what the hell, just a little bit then.... Ooops, is it midnight already?"
install a solid fuel motor onto an asteroid and propel it into Earth's orbit. Wait a few years and BAM! 100 billion dollars worth of minerals. ... falling on top of your head. Priceless!
Oh, and read this:
US government distorts science.
Are these the lies and distortions you are talking about?
If you are the same AC who posted before, your arguments are getting weaker and weaker... what does ad-hominem attacks on me and my politics have to do with open sourcing java?
And no, I'm not "affiliated", I just choose to post the link.
As long as you pay the fee, swear eternal fealty to Sun Microsystem Incorporated
;-)
No, you sign an agreement, the terms are not that harsh. There is no fee for individual memebers.
name all your software projects after coffee
Actually, after several years it was agreed that astronomy related names also were acceptable.
After this initiation ritual, you will be allowed to observe the gods of Java as they restlessly toil, and finally, after a ten years apprenticeship you will be allowed to speak.
No, once you are a member, you can simply mail a JSR, draft specifications or final ballot.
Compare this with Mono:
Join mailing list.
Say "Hey, I'd like to suggest/try this".
Response: "Cool!"
Well, I can mail one of my friends and say "Hey, I'm going to build a spaceship!". He might reply "Cool", or maybe "So you have finally lost your last shreds of sanity then?". So what? What do my friends or Mono have anything to do with the JCP?
Interesting that you keep getting more mod points for funny, even though, as earlier replies to you have pointed out, your joke is wrong by at least 33 years or so. Java on java has existed for years.
:-)
The porting will be done by Sun's Java team using a Java IDE and Java compilers on thin-client boxes powered by Java.
The fascinating thing is that these things all exist and are developing at a furious pace.
McNealy answered, "You are missing the point."
Well, a lot of people on Slashot seem to be missing McNealy's point, so I guess that makes things even.
The source for Java is available for download. You are free to make a Java clone, as long as you don't call it Java (just like Microsoft has done with C#/.Net). You can join the Java Community Project and influence how Java is developed. Are the possible risks for Sun worth what little more Sun could gain by Open Sourcing it? Doubtful.
I just wanted to thank the author of the review for one of the first good reviews I have read on Slashdot. Too often reviewers are basically just listing the table of contents and adding "and I liked it" at the end.
Here for once we have someone who goes a bit more in depth and tries to evaluate impartially the things the book discuss. Amazing!
do you like naked men, lars?
:-)
Hey, who doesn't?
You can actually have wood panelling right next to metal that is so hot it's glowing red without the wood smoldering.
:-)
Perhaps I should clarify that by "next to" I didn't mean touching of course, but a couple of centemeters away... and at least when the pipes from the fireplace is glowing dark to medium red there is no problem with the wood catching fire or even getting very warm, I know from personal experience.
If it is getting cherry red or bright red I might start to worry, both about the wood being burnt, and the metal getting deformed.
Definitely not the case and/or setup for those overclockers out there :) especially with heat output getting real close to 100W...
That does not really matter. As others have pointed out, the heat disappation of your metal case is close to zero compared to how much is dissappated by the air circulated by your case fans, so switching to wood won't make any difference.
There are lots of predicatble jokes here about it catching fire, but most traditional Finnish saunas are made from wood. You can actually have wood panelling right next to metal that is so hot it's glowing red without the wood smoldering. Though just like with saunas, it would probably be best not to use wood that is impregnated or treated with anything for the cases, as that might give off not very healthy gasses if warmed up.
With regards to being heavy - it might be a bit bulky, but I think I read wood is actually one of the strongest materials compared to its weight in the world. Hey, here is an idea, how about spider silk cases?
Finally, the environmental question: wood is about as renewable resource as there is, and we have lots of it in Sweden. As long as the wood doesn't come from protected forests ("ur-skog") or rainforests, you can't really get more environmentally friendly.
Now, the Jedi should have been a class you can start with. Base you power on deeds, and have a Good/Dark meter. when you get REALLY good, or Evil, you start to get the bizarro powers.
Well, you sum up one of the problems with MMORPGs - when everyone is a hero, no one is a hero.
Also, if a newbie gets the most powerful class/weapon in the fictional universe first thing, what can they strive for later? I mean, if every newbie gets a lightblade and runs around whacking things with it, what differs that from giving a newbie a rusty knife and letting them run around whacking things with it?
You are also indicative of another problem that haunts developers, everyone wants the game to be tailored for their specific playing style, and seem to be unable to grasp that the developers have to take into consideration all the different playing styles. Power gamers, plot/character RPGers, PKers, casual gamers...
I'm not saying how they handled Jedi in the game was perfect, but I think it was right of them to make it something special and something to strive for.
God, I am so glad I beat my Everquest addiction.
Now throw yer tantrum kids.
Tantrum? I'm delighted. In order to protect their monopoly on all fronts they are spreading their resources thinner and thinner in order to combat the various threats from competitors, open Source and open standards (for instance Linux, Open Office/Star Office, Java, XML, Mobile platforms) This means loss of focus, low quality, delayed releases. And hopefully their downfall.
Actually, whenever I did that Slashdot refused to show the link. I thought it was a filter, but perhaps I just managed to screw up simple HTML...
Better?
Styrofoam should be a preferred material based on how well it can be recycled.
Perhaps it can be recycled well in theory, but it is rare for it to be recycled, especially when used for fast food containers.
A lot of people just throw it wherever, and once out in nature it lasts virtually forever, unlike products made from alternative materials like paper and starch.
If you use Mozilla/Firefox you can install Flash Click to View fromh p/flas hclick
http://extensionroom.mozdev.org/more-info.p
(Remove the space inserted into the link by Slashdot)
With the plugin, the browser loads the Flash content but displays a blank button with the text "click to view" instead of the animation. So now you can go to the site that require flash, but won't be bothered unless you want to.
With regards to the full motion video - where do they find the drooling idiots in the test group who want the net to resemble TV more? Do you believe the "only 28% of users found it annoying", or are the advertisers lying? (And why not, it's basically their job anyway)
Down the middle of the playground?
Bingo...
They don't just stick these products out there, they let people use4 them first and check whether things work... duh...
;-)
Oh, you mean the wonderful deal where you pay for the priviledge of being a beta tester?