Depending on the environment it might not be acceptable for them to use "their own IDE". Generally it's a good thing if the whole team uses the same IDE so that effort customizing the IDE to run the project isn't wasted by only applying to a small fraction of the team.
Also, if it is a new IDE for them, seeing how fast they learn to make use of at least its basic features will give you an idea of how quickly they learn.
That's a good idea actually. Put them in front of whatever IDE you use (whether they've used it before or not) with a program that has compilation errors, style errors, obvious bugs, a couple of subtler bugs and one very subtle bug.
Then tell them to make this code work, and see what they do. That will give you a pretty accurate idea of several things:
1) How quick-thinking they are - I know people who have "the skills" but apply them oh-so-slowly they're a frustration for their co-workers. Watching them code is like watching paint dry. Unsurprisingly they're also slow in other parts of day-to-day worklife interaction.
2) How they react to a frustrating problem - debugging someone else's code can be very frustrating. You can probably weed out the guys who get really annoyed and fretting... they'll probably end up pulling a heart attack on you during a stressful phase of the project! (note: that is actually discrimination based on health so you will get sued if you don't hire someone based on that. So don't do it, ok?)
3) How good they are at debugging. Having talented debuggers is useful on any project...
Sounds like a brilliant test to me... maybe because I would have passed it very nicely:-P
Gosh.. I finished a physics master's degree less than 2 years ago and I had no memory of how to do it. Scary, but understandable. Solving the quadratic equation is one of those proofs that is simple but has a "trick" that you have to remember. Unless you use that trick in your day-to-day work (which, as a software engineer, I obviously don't), you're not going to remember it any other way than by having seen the solution recently.
Pretty stupid test for an interview. I'm top performer in my current team despite being the most junior. The project would probably have failed if I hadn't been there. I wouldn't have remembered the solution, though.
"Rather thoughtful wishlist?" This is just yet another muppet's (mis-)comprehension of world politics on a public forum. What the difference is between this "article" and the N political posts which get modded as troll, off-topic, flamebait on this very site, I don't know.
And that's exactly why a (real) degree in any subject is worth something on your CV. Because some people just can't stick with one thing for even 4 years - so how can you expect them to stick with one career for 10+ years?
You'll need a monster pda to have enough memory to record your travel diary as.wav... (even at shitty 11khz 8bit mono so bad you can barely recognise your own voice)...
In the case of the giant meteor coming to earth I think they tend to call it "insourcing". But it's all terminology of course. In the end, it's all because of foreigners!
Yup. In other breaking news, microwave ovens operating at certain frequencies have just been discovered to be an effective DoS tool for wireless networks within a limited range.
Another undisclosed report by the NSA reports that hammers are pretty effective too, though their range is extremely short.
That's far too complex! The obvious solution is to give all the boxes the same root password, kept in a central location (such as on a postit note at the entrance of the server room).
What was really fun was this was just after you get the light saber for the first time in the game, and they immediatly put you up against the one weapon the light saber can't block, the sniper guns!
Please tell me this was intense sarcasm. I was so frustrated by that at the time! "woohoo I got a light saber people can't shoot me from the front!" *PAF* *disintegrates* *wtf???*
And you forget they also pit you against grenade thorwing bastards at that point. Another weapon you can't block.
Bullshit to that. Working in a lab is like working anywhere. It's work. Period. Studying is different, but work is still work whether you're preparing bacteria samples or coding something. In fact, coding can probably be significantly more fun than the repetitive lab tasks which a grad student will often be required to perform (because no one else will do them).
Irrelevant. Of the projecs you mention the majority have little or no graphical complexity. As for FreeCiv, despite its laughably simple graphics (compared to modern productions) it still fails by far to be a "very successful game". It is slightly successful at most. One big reason for that seems to be that very few artists are willing to make "open art", probably because having to draw 50 versions of the same monster from different angles for free doesn't appeal to all those artists who can do it well - because they can do the same thing and actually get paid for it.
Read this post for a more complete answer about "what I'm saying". In my original post I wasn't necessarily talking about fairness. Just about what will work and what won't. It doesn't matter if solution A is "fair" (which is highly arguable), if people won't buy it.
Slashdot Mirror
Flying under the influence of substances doesn't count...
Daniel
Depending on the environment it might not be acceptable for them to use "their own IDE". Generally it's a good thing if the whole team uses the same IDE so that effort customizing the IDE to run the project isn't wasted by only applying to a small fraction of the team.
Also, if it is a new IDE for them, seeing how fast they learn to make use of at least its basic features will give you an idea of how quickly they learn.
Daniel
That's a good idea actually. Put them in front of whatever IDE you use (whether they've used it before or not) with a program that has compilation errors, style errors, obvious bugs, a couple of subtler bugs and one very subtle bug.
:-P
Then tell them to make this code work, and see what they do. That will give you a pretty accurate idea of several things:
1) How quick-thinking they are - I know people who have "the skills" but apply them oh-so-slowly they're a frustration for their co-workers. Watching them code is like watching paint dry. Unsurprisingly they're also slow in other parts of day-to-day worklife interaction.
2) How they react to a frustrating problem - debugging someone else's code can be very frustrating. You can probably weed out the guys who get really annoyed and fretting... they'll probably end up pulling a heart attack on you during a stressful phase of the project! (note: that is actually discrimination based on health so you will get sued if you don't hire someone based on that. So don't do it, ok?)
3) How good they are at debugging. Having talented debuggers is useful on any project...
Sounds like a brilliant test to me... maybe because I would have passed it very nicely
Daniel
Gosh.. I finished a physics master's degree less than 2 years ago and I had no memory of how to do it. Scary, but understandable. Solving the quadratic equation is one of those proofs that is simple but has a "trick" that you have to remember. Unless you use that trick in your day-to-day work (which, as a software engineer, I obviously don't), you're not going to remember it any other way than by having seen the solution recently.
Pretty stupid test for an interview. I'm top performer in my current team despite being the most junior. The project would probably have failed if I hadn't been there. I wouldn't have remembered the solution, though.
Daniel
Well... no, not really. Serves'em right. Now if only they could get telemarketters in there as well...
Daniel
I use public transportation, which runs on electricity (the infamous London Underground)... So I wouldn't really care very much.
Daniel
You have a strange sense of humour.
Daniel
"Rather thoughtful wishlist?" This is just yet another muppet's (mis-)comprehension of world politics on a public forum. What the difference is between this "article" and the N political posts which get modded as troll, off-topic, flamebait on this very site, I don't know.
Daniel
And that's exactly why a (real) degree in any subject is worth something on your CV. Because some people just can't stick with one thing for even 4 years - so how can you expect them to stick with one career for 10+ years?
Daniel
You'll need a monster pda to have enough memory to record your travel diary as .wav... (even at shitty 11khz 8bit mono so bad you can barely recognise your own voice)...
Daniel
Thinking +Funny mods actually give karma.. not priceless, really.. uninformed I guess...
Daniel
In the case of the giant meteor coming to earth I think they tend to call it "insourcing". But it's all terminology of course. In the end, it's all because of foreigners!
Daniel
They didn't even "find" it. It's been known about for a century or two now, since the heyday of optics in the 19th century.
Daniel
With great shame and self-deprecation I must admit that I didn't actually read the article.
narf.
Daniel
Seeing as Funny mods don't affect karma, obviously not mine.
Daniel
I believe the (not-so-interesting) term for a post lacking content or intelligence but appearing to have them is "karma whoring".
Daniel
Yup. In other breaking news, microwave ovens operating at certain frequencies have just been discovered to be an effective DoS tool for wireless networks within a limited range.
Another undisclosed report by the NSA reports that hammers are pretty effective too, though their range is extremely short.
Daniel
That's far too complex! The obvious solution is to give all the boxes the same root password, kept in a central location (such as on a postit note at the entrance of the server room).
Daniel
What was really fun was this was just after you get the light saber for the first time in the game, and they immediatly put you up against the one weapon the light saber can't block, the sniper guns!
Please tell me this was intense sarcasm. I was so frustrated by that at the time! "woohoo I got a light saber people can't shoot me from the front!" *PAF* *disintegrates* *wtf???*
And you forget they also pit you against grenade thorwing bastards at that point. Another weapon you can't block.
Daniel
Bullshit to that. Working in a lab is like working anywhere. It's work. Period. Studying is different, but work is still work whether you're preparing bacteria samples or coding something. In fact, coding can probably be significantly more fun than the repetitive lab tasks which a grad student will often be required to perform (because no one else will do them).
Daniel
Irrelevant. Of the projecs you mention the majority have little or no graphical complexity. As for FreeCiv, despite its laughably simple graphics (compared to modern productions) it still fails by far to be a "very successful game". It is slightly successful at most. One big reason for that seems to be that very few artists are willing to make "open art", probably because having to draw 50 versions of the same monster from different angles for free doesn't appeal to all those artists who can do it well - because they can do the same thing and actually get paid for it.
Daniel
Poor bastards must be on the streets now, holding signs: "My ad-clicking revenue went to india - please help - will click ads for food".
Daniel
You old bastard. Get back in your grave!
Daniel
We're not that far off, tbh. Just look at the world today. It's certainly not unthinkable that we *will* do it in the future.
Daniel
Read this post for a more complete answer about "what I'm saying". In my original post I wasn't necessarily talking about fairness. Just about what will work and what won't. It doesn't matter if solution A is "fair" (which is highly arguable), if people won't buy it.
Daniel