except fire drills and things like that where they tell you the time it'll occur and even stage evacuations to pass "the test". I once worked at a new facility where strange tripod sensors were all around and we were told to not use certain equipment for the week. It was only much later that I learned those sensors were some kind of environmental sensors required before long term occupation of the building was allowed.
I agree that properly run tests are supposed to find failures and proper procedures solve the problems found and future tests find other failures if there are any. Ten years after 9/11 and this is just coming about is my question. Remember how the dead hijackers were given visa extensions something like 3 years after the enacted the attacks? I think it was the 2008 election before Bush and his party started talking about immigration issues.
I think the geeks would be better off relying on their own form of warning system instead of relying on a government operated one. Maybe something tied in with HAM operators and their data passing system. Handhelds and base station radios are not that expensive these days.
good points but we are also talking about things in the single digits for power consumption. I agree, die shrinkage and advances in designs give lots of power savings. Still, having PS3 like graphics on a handheld will be nice.
the story isn't about the handhelds matching desktops, it's about the handhelds getting some very powerful graphics. besides, the reference was with consoles, not desktops. Just because consoles in a few years might be doing holographic displays it doesn't mean handhelds doing pretty nice 3D graphics on battery power isn't nice too.
I already knew that about Microsoft making more from these patent licenses than they make from WinCE but for the longest time, years, they paid vendors to use WinCE and lost over $15 billion on it as of a few years ago. So it's no surprise they make more from these licenses and now their WinCE business is drying up big time.
Also, this income is a drop in the bucket to what they make off Windows and Windows based software. Since there's over 20 years of history of Microsoft spending billions to block competitors there's nothing new going on at Microsoft to show thi is about a revenue stream other than that based on Windows.
Patents are not secret, they are public. Which patents they claim are infringing is what they will not state. This is very much like how SCO operated their patent attacks.
they are what's required to run Windows 8. Since it's not ready yet, Android get the initial buzz but this is most likely designed so that Microsoft can say they have a table OS which competes with the others. I'll have to go back and look at how much RAM it'll have since there's little doubt that will have to be doubled or more for Windows 8.
IIRC,it was the Asus CEO who apologized for showing an ARM based Android netbook a couple of years ago and Microsoft was at his side.
some of those deals are likely to cost the vendors nothing since they included a side deal worth moneys similar to the patent license just for putting a Windows sticker on a box or logo on a web page. They're called Microsoft Marketing Programs and they allow Microsoft to charge an inflated licensing fee while still costing the vendor little, nothing or even to make a profit.
It will be interesting to hear what happens to those vendor licensing deals if this runs its course. We won't hear too much though because of the NDAs required by Microsoft and if this digs into these contracts in court then I suspect Microsoft will negotiate a much smaller fee for B&N and end it before they get exposed for the racket they are playing. Google/Motorola is another story.
Did you know they both sell products which run Microsoft Windows? Do you think they might talk about how those licensing fees would go up sharply if they were not to play this Android game. Seeing how they _require_ an NDA before even telling the vendors what patents are being infringed, these kinds of contracts only get exposed in court documents or leaked.
So that is just a couple of ways Microsoft strong arms companies the size of Samsung or General Dynamics. And don't forget, Microsoft strong armed Intel into shutting down a software division they were running which did Java and multimedia software. It's pretty well known by the older geeks how Microsoft got its market and has kept its market and it was not because they competed on product quality. IMO
did you hear that Microsoft was possibly inflating the licensing fee while also signing a marketing deal with the vendors which bring the total cost of "the deal" to zero dollars. It was said that the Samsung deal was such a deal. B&N does not sell or ship any Microsoft Windows based products so there is no place for any leverage there.
I also expect that schedule to get delayed and delayed many times.
bull shit, B&N is mainly complaining that the licensing fees are excessive. Microsoft wants something like $15 per device and that is as much or more than they charge for licensing their complete Windows Mobile OS. vFAT or what ever Microsoft is claiming is such a small part of the whole system the fees are excessive in any patent system.
These excessive fees and how Microsoft is forcing vendors to sign an NDA just to see the patents are outside of the patent system. To top it off, it appears at least the vFAT patent is related to ties with interoperability with their monopoly in the Windows desktop OS.
if you read up on the B&N complaints about Microsoft it was indeed about how they insisted and even tried various tricks to get B&N to sign an NDA or act as if they were still under one. The B&N lawyers kept saying we don't need any NDA to read public patents so just give a list.
What you stated sounds just like the Microsoft I've known for 20+ years and would not surprise me.
Too bad so many think Microsoft is doing this to make money from the licensing.
What I don't get is that he used that as an excuse? So I guess a defense for murder in his court is 'I was made at X for lame reason Y so I shot X'. Way to show how great the State of Texas is.
see ads telling them how great Windows Phones are and then they'll see coupons making it free to switch phones and get a free upgrade to Microsoft Windows 8. But from what I've heard from kids, they don't need a computer any more and when they do they'll use it at school or their parents.
but a mosquito net does not require the use of Microsoft Windows as I'm sure these lasers would likely require embedded Windows at the very least. Remembering that Gates was recently shown to have terminated the Courier project because it did not lock^H^H^Hintegrate with MS Office nor MS Exchange.
once they established their market dominance and were quite successful leveraging it to protect MS DOS and later used it to keep IBM OS/2 out of the market that is all they do and think about when it comes to new products. Bill and Steve did this over and over and over again. Protect the income and screw new products because that income is what pays the bills. I'm not surprised one bit we hear it again that is how they think.
I agree with the MS Office theory since Windows is stalling for growth and MS Office upgrades and licensing is their go-to market.
Because they must keep Windows valuable though, they still must spin Windows under MS Office correctly. Look at how they are spinning Windows 8 and how they are locking the phone and desktop together and forcing that UI onto the desktop.
it won't matter since it's the VFAT patent which is the main point here and a VFAT driver on BSD would also be considered under Microsoft's patent. Microsoft's saying "Linux infringes" is more about attacking Linux than it is about making money from there IP. The money they make from these patents is a drop in a bucket compared to what Windows brings in. As usual, this is all about protecting Windows, their only product they live and breath by.
and it sounds like Barnes and Nobles big problem with the licensing fee Microsoft wants to extract is that it's close to the same fee they charge to license their mobile OS. ie the fee is excessive for such a small portion of the whole. But they are charging based on how it causes the competitions cost to rise in comparison to their own. B&N brings this up too.
Google is really blowing it by not stepping up both the rhetoric and the court battles on this.
except there was not reason for Microsoft to do that. Since they sell more product pre-loaded, it was in their best interest to force a reason for hardware vendors to add more power and have an artificial reason to purchase new computers. The hardware vendors were willing to do this because they too sold more product.
BTW, I hear it all the time, "it's time for me to get a new computer because this one is getting slow". I'd ask them what do you mean, "getting slow" and they would say it runs slower than when they got it so it must be getting old. _That_ is what kept Microsoft pushing out slow software.
It's only now that Apple and Google have shown portable devices can be peoples only device that Microsoft realizes they must trim the fat or start the big decline. That is why they are putting in the technical and marketing effort to optimizing Windows. IMO
exactly since they've never worried about performance on mains connected systems before. At the very least they've never spent any time marketing about it and more hardware on new machines helped sell upgrades. This whole release is all about the shift to portable devices as desktop PC use has plateaued and any quick down turn in that greatly diminishes a major revenue stream for them. IMO
try 30+ sec boots on always connected devices like tablets or even notebooks with the current generation of instant gratification by always having their phones ready and you've got a non-starter. Microsoft is pushing this startup time stuff to journalists because it's a big deal to Microsoft. Other OS vendors have already solved this problem and people are using them but Microsoft is late to the mobile space and in dire need to get there or see their ecosystem start imploding.
And with Windows needing so many updates and reboots, startup time is a big deal on the usability front and people will not use the devices if they can't _very_ quickly get to do what they bought the device for. We're not talking about mains connected office dwelling desktop systems.
you mean like needing the current version of Windows in the same ball park as the competition as far as hardware goes? You don't think this has anything to do with the Apple iPad, Android tablets and various Linux based ARM devices do you? Microsoft can't pull Windows XP out of retirement yet again and also require extra hardware too and consider themselves competitive.
Ballmer's comments have not value what so ever so I would not worry about it. He's doing marketing for his company's competing product and it's highly likely that he's never even touched an Android based device. And besides, it sounds like Windows Phone 8/whatever will be for expensive phones because that's better according to Ballmer. Nice way to get people to expect a high price and for idiots to think it's expensive because it's better. Like I said, Ballmer's comments are really worthless and just marketing speak. IMO
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except fire drills and things like that where they tell you the time it'll occur and even stage evacuations to pass "the test". I once worked at a new facility where strange tripod sensors were all around and we were told to not use certain equipment for the week. It was only much later that I learned those sensors were some kind of environmental sensors required before long term occupation of the building was allowed.
I agree that properly run tests are supposed to find failures and proper procedures solve the problems found and future tests find other failures if there are any. Ten years after 9/11 and this is just coming about is my question. Remember how the dead hijackers were given visa extensions something like 3 years after the enacted the attacks? I think it was the 2008 election before Bush and his party started talking about immigration issues.
I think the geeks would be better off relying on their own form of warning system instead of relying on a government operated one. Maybe something tied in with HAM operators and their data passing system. Handhelds and base station radios are not that expensive these days.
LoB
good points but we are also talking about things in the single digits for power consumption. I agree, die shrinkage and advances in designs give lots of power savings. Still, having PS3 like graphics on a handheld will be nice.
LoB
the story isn't about the handhelds matching desktops, it's about the handhelds getting some very powerful graphics. besides, the reference was with consoles, not desktops. Just because consoles in a few years might be doing holographic displays it doesn't mean handhelds doing pretty nice 3D graphics on battery power isn't nice too.
LoB
I already knew that about Microsoft making more from these patent licenses than they make from WinCE but for the longest time, years, they paid vendors to use WinCE and lost over $15 billion on it as of a few years ago. So it's no surprise they make more from these licenses and now their WinCE business is drying up big time.
Also, this income is a drop in the bucket to what they make off Windows and Windows based software. Since there's over 20 years of history of Microsoft spending billions to block competitors there's nothing new going on at Microsoft to show thi is about a revenue stream other than that based on Windows.
Patents are not secret, they are public. Which patents they claim are infringing is what they will not state. This is very much like how SCO operated their patent attacks.
LoB
really? I thought it ended up showing up at Qualcomm's booth because it was their prototype and it was their ARM chip running it.
LoB
they are what's required to run Windows 8. Since it's not ready yet, Android get the initial buzz but this is most likely designed so that Microsoft can say they have a table OS which competes with the others. I'll have to go back and look at how much RAM it'll have since there's little doubt that will have to be doubled or more for Windows 8.
IIRC,it was the Asus CEO who apologized for showing an ARM based Android netbook a couple of years ago and Microsoft was at his side.
LoB
some of those deals are likely to cost the vendors nothing since they included a side deal worth moneys similar to the patent license just for putting a Windows sticker on a box or logo on a web page. They're called Microsoft Marketing Programs and they allow Microsoft to charge an inflated licensing fee while still costing the vendor little, nothing or even to make a profit.
It will be interesting to hear what happens to those vendor licensing deals if this runs its course. We won't hear too much though because of the NDAs required by Microsoft and if this digs into these contracts in court then I suspect Microsoft will negotiate a much smaller fee for B&N and end it before they get exposed for the racket they are playing. Google/Motorola is another story.
LoB
Did you know they both sell products which run Microsoft Windows? Do you think they might talk about how those licensing fees would go up sharply if they were not to play this Android game. Seeing how they _require_ an NDA before even telling the vendors what patents are being infringed, these kinds of contracts only get exposed in court documents or leaked.
So that is just a couple of ways Microsoft strong arms companies the size of Samsung or General Dynamics. And don't forget, Microsoft strong armed Intel into shutting down a software division they were running which did Java and multimedia software. It's pretty well known by the older geeks how Microsoft got its market and has kept its market and it was not because they competed on product quality. IMO
LoB
did you hear that Microsoft was possibly inflating the licensing fee while also signing a marketing deal with the vendors which bring the total cost of "the deal" to zero dollars. It was said that the Samsung deal was such a deal. B&N does not sell or ship any Microsoft Windows based products so there is no place for any leverage there.
I also expect that schedule to get delayed and delayed many times.
LoB
bull shit, B&N is mainly complaining that the licensing fees are excessive. Microsoft wants something like $15 per device and that is as much or more than they charge for licensing their complete Windows Mobile OS. vFAT or what ever Microsoft is claiming is such a small part of the whole system the fees are excessive in any patent system.
These excessive fees and how Microsoft is forcing vendors to sign an NDA just to see the patents are outside of the patent system. To top it off, it appears at least the vFAT patent is related to ties with interoperability with their monopoly in the Windows desktop OS.
LoB
if you read up on the B&N complaints about Microsoft it was indeed about how they insisted and even tried various tricks to get B&N to sign an NDA or act as if they were still under one. The B&N lawyers kept saying we don't need any NDA to read public patents so just give a list.
What you stated sounds just like the Microsoft I've known for 20+ years and would not surprise me.
Too bad so many think Microsoft is doing this to make money from the licensing.
LoB
maybe the ARM port is not being maintained well enough but then again, ARM is just a fad.
LoB
What I don't get is that he used that as an excuse? So I guess a defense for murder in his court is 'I was made at X for lame reason Y so I shot X'. Way to show how great the State of Texas is.
LoB
see ads telling them how great Windows Phones are and then they'll see coupons making it free to switch phones and get a free upgrade to Microsoft Windows 8. But from what I've heard from kids, they don't need a computer any more and when they do they'll use it at school or their parents.
LoB
but a mosquito net does not require the use of Microsoft Windows as I'm sure these lasers would likely require embedded Windows at the very least. Remembering that Gates was recently shown to have terminated the Courier project because it did not lock^H^H^Hintegrate with MS Office nor MS Exchange.
LoB
or "The Demigods Must Be Crazy" since it seems Negroponte believes that's what he is. lol
I can't wait to hear the stories of how they start using these laptops besides setting new 'drop test' records.
LoB
once they established their market dominance and were quite successful leveraging it to protect MS DOS and later used it to keep IBM OS/2 out of the market that is all they do and think about when it comes to new products. Bill and Steve did this over and over and over again. Protect the income and screw new products because that income is what pays the bills. I'm not surprised one bit we hear it again that is how they think.
I agree with the MS Office theory since Windows is stalling for growth and MS Office upgrades and licensing is their go-to market.
Because they must keep Windows valuable though, they still must spin Windows under MS Office correctly. Look at how they are spinning Windows 8 and how they are locking the phone and desktop together and forcing that UI onto the desktop.
LoB
it won't matter since it's the VFAT patent which is the main point here and a VFAT driver on BSD would also be considered under Microsoft's patent. Microsoft's saying "Linux infringes" is more about attacking Linux than it is about making money from there IP. The money they make from these patents is a drop in a bucket compared to what Windows brings in. As usual, this is all about protecting Windows, their only product they live and breath by.
LoB
and it sounds like Barnes and Nobles big problem with the licensing fee Microsoft wants to extract is that it's close to the same fee they charge to license their mobile OS. ie the fee is excessive for such a small portion of the whole. But they are charging based on how it causes the competitions cost to rise in comparison to their own. B&N brings this up too.
Google is really blowing it by not stepping up both the rhetoric and the court battles on this.
LoB
IIRC, they rejected the FAT patents but accepted the claims related to VFAT and how it stores and maps long file names.
LoB
except there was not reason for Microsoft to do that. Since they sell more product pre-loaded, it was in their best interest to force a reason for hardware vendors to add more power and have an artificial reason to purchase new computers. The hardware vendors were willing to do this because they too sold more product.
BTW, I hear it all the time, "it's time for me to get a new computer because this one is getting slow". I'd ask them what do you mean, "getting slow" and they would say it runs slower than when they got it so it must be getting old. _That_ is what kept Microsoft pushing out slow software.
It's only now that Apple and Google have shown portable devices can be peoples only device that Microsoft realizes they must trim the fat or start the big decline. That is why they are putting in the technical and marketing effort to optimizing Windows. IMO
LoB
exactly since they've never worried about performance on mains connected systems before. At the very least they've never spent any time marketing about it and more hardware on new machines helped sell upgrades. This whole release is all about the shift to portable devices as desktop PC use has plateaued and any quick down turn in that greatly diminishes a major revenue stream for them. IMO
LoB
try 30+ sec boots on always connected devices like tablets or even notebooks with the current generation of instant gratification by always having their phones ready and you've got a non-starter. Microsoft is pushing this startup time stuff to journalists because it's a big deal to Microsoft. Other OS vendors have already solved this problem and people are using them but Microsoft is late to the mobile space and in dire need to get there or see their ecosystem start imploding.
And with Windows needing so many updates and reboots, startup time is a big deal on the usability front and people will not use the devices if they can't _very_ quickly get to do what they bought the device for. We're not talking about mains connected office dwelling desktop systems.
LoB
you mean like needing the current version of Windows in the same ball park as the competition as far as hardware goes? You don't think this has anything to do with the Apple iPad, Android tablets and various Linux based ARM devices do you? Microsoft can't pull Windows XP out of retirement yet again and also require extra hardware too and consider themselves competitive.
LoB
Ballmer's comments have not value what so ever so I would not worry about it. He's doing marketing for his company's competing product and it's highly likely that he's never even touched an Android based device. And besides, it sounds like Windows Phone 8/whatever will be for expensive phones because that's better according to Ballmer. Nice way to get people to expect a high price and for idiots to think it's expensive because it's better. Like I said, Ballmer's comments are really worthless and just marketing speak. IMO
LoB