> If roles were reversed and if you think a company would give you your money back then you're delusional...
I've gotten my money back from companies when the situation was reversed.
>...or you don't live in the US.
in the U.S.
> Or an ultra-idealized, removed-from-reality college student.
Living inside of a college student would be difficult. Please learn to use the English language correctly.
> Purchasing gas at a sub-market value fits neither. Purchasing gas is a contract. Period. They offer gas at a price. You accept that price. IANAL, but what I know about contract law says that consideration (ie, what you pay) need not be market value nor adequate (like selling property for a dollar).
There's such a thing as a "partial gift" that is used for calculating gift taxes. But IANAL either, which is why I called GP a scumbag and not a criminal.
> If this were with a charity, I'd probably agree with you. Defrauding, stealing, or taking advantage of an organization intended to serve others is pathetic. *But* it's a purchasing contract with someone who's only goal is to take as much of your money as they can.
He was doing the equivalent of taking advantage of a typo in the contract. Which is being a scumbag, even if it's not illegal.
> Welcome to capitalism: dog eat dog. I hope your naivete doesn't bite you where it hurts later.
F@#$ you. I'd be more explicit, but I'm at work right now.
> Does that mean I can be jailed? Just because I'm taking advantage of someone else's screwup?
I don't know if you can legally be jailed. However, you are a dirty, dishonest scumbag. It's situations like yours where you prove whether or not you're a good person. You're not one.
Microsoft's position is that the standard requires their (undesirable) behavior. I guess GCC either disagrees or is providing a language extension. For what it's worth, MSVC doesn't have a great track record on correct standard interpretation. (C++ header file naming bug, for one example...)
> And in any case, gcc runs on windows so it's not exactly a windows issue is it?
gcc runs on everything. Consider it a comparison of the "native" compilers of both OSes.
> Windows has better support for multithreaded apps, it has a far richer set of thread/process synchronisation objects (mutexs, critical sections, semaphores, alertable wait states, events) than unix does.
Now you're just throwing out random terms for multithreaded programming concepts, all of which can be implemented in any OS that provides an API for multithreaded programming. As is typical, the Windows uses a nonstandard, proprietary API, while Linux uses an open standard (the POSIX pthreads library).
Just to make it clear that the Windows API is not "richer", let me point out that you can actually write a wrapper around either API that makes it look like the other, and people have done so.
> Now, as far as 32k 'busy' running threads leaving the machine still responsive... let's just try that out..
Don't be retarded. But since you already were, my sibling poster has responded that this doesn't kill Linux stone-dead, though it does slow it down quite a bit, so you even lose your own retarded benchmark contest. Ouch.
> You sir, are a geek. You think like a geek, act like a geek, and most importantly, are arrogant, like a geek. You are one in 10,000 or 100,000. You are not the marketplace.
> Your little PIM you are so proud of, probably wouldn't make it in the world if you gave it away.
You, sir, are an asshole. I know I'm a geek (damn proud of it, too). And I don't care if other people use my PIM; it was designed with me as its sole intended user. What's this have to do with anything?
> And the Neo1973 may be able to do lots of things, but it isn't as easy or user friendly as the iPhone.
Considering that the Neo1973 hasn't been released in its final form, you have no basis for that statement.
> So, development of the iPhone, adding applications and such will be measured in time.
To the extent that statement makes any sense, there's no SDK for the iPhone, so there won't be any applications added in time.
> I'd be willing to bet, that there will be more application, more development and the iPhone will have many more versions available in 5 years than the Neo1973 will. I'd even be willing to bet that the Neo1973 or relatives might be extinct by then.
Nah, not more applications. The Neo1973 will have most of standard Linux, while the iPhone might have "Weather applet" or "Quicktime 3000" or similar Apple-generated nonsense.
As far as more versions, well, Apple usually doesn't get products even minimally stable/working the first time out the door, so probably yeah.
As far as Neo1973 being extinct, well I hope not because I think it's a cool project, but I don't know. Lots of good products aren't commercially successful. I was stating that Neo1973 was a good product, and superior to the iPhone, not that it would be a commercial success.
> You're not trying to come up with a general purpose algorithm for determining if any algorithm halts, you're coming up with an algorithm to trace the execution path of a specific algorithm that you already know halts, based on a limited instruction set.
Nope, a program running in a VM is just like any other program, and all programs have "limited instruction sets". My understanding is that there's no guarantee a BD+ algorithm will naturally halt. If you know otherwise, do tell, but I doubt you do because otherwise you would have argued better in your post.
> Of course, a software player could blow things open all the same -- that's really the only way that even AACS is being cracked even now.
Oh, get it through your thick head that/the algorithms don't need to be cracked/. DRM is/not/ an encryption problem: you have access to the plaintext already!
> In this case, you have to come up with something which can determine the full dynamic runtime execution path of a static binary - a currently unsolved problem in Computer Science, despite numerous attempts to do such a thing by some of the world's brightest minds.
You do not do the Halting Problem justice. Few if any bright minds are trying to solve it, because it is unsolvable. Trying to solve it is like trying to build a perpetual motion machine.
> Well it means that a full crack of BD+ will require crackers to implement a virtual machine which acts in exactly the same way as the hardware VM would act.
Well, if there's a software player, you could also use that. And this VM is probably pretty simple since it's specialized; the hardest part would be figuring out the specification.
All of your comments are irrelevant to actually getting around the DRM. You can yell all you want, "WAAAH! THEY CHOSE A GOOD ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM," but the fact that DRM is impossible still remains.
If it's too inconvenient to crack it, then rerecord the unencrypted output as it comes out of a legitimate player. It's that simple. You can't hide and reveal information simultaneously, and no amount of cute obfuscation in the player code will stop that.
The absolute worst that this can do is make it so that you can't play protected BD+ discs in Linux without WINE or VMWare or something. In this case, the easy and obvious workaround is to pirate the movie you want and burn it, unprotected, to the media of your choice. And, as available bandwidth continues to increase, this workaround will become even easier.
> Wrong. You're not getting ANYTHING close to being "a ton more", except.... POTENTIAL.
No, that's not true. The phone will come with bundled software you can use to do common tasks, just like the iPhone. If you're not interested in developing apps for the phone, you won't have to. However, if you are interested, the ability will be there for you.
I am interested; the ability to run arbitrary Unix C++ code on my phone is an important feature for me, because I have written a PIM in C++ for Linux. It is currently ported to my Sun workstation, my HP laptop, and my Sharp Zaurus. A phone's development environment is a feature for me, not a sign of potential.
I carefully avoided saying that you were getting a ton more from the Neo1973 because the OSS community will port tons of stuff to it, since you're correct that this is not certain (though I think it likely). I said you're getting a ton more from the Neo1973 because of the hardware features, even if the only way you use them is through the generic bundled software that comes with the phone.
That is,/even in the worst case/, I think you're getting a ton more from the Neo1973 than from the iPhone.
> If you count the millions of embedded devices that run gnu/linux I'm sure it would be considered the worlds most popular OS. It's all in how you want to swing the numbers.
Actually, if you count embedded OSes VxWorks is the most popular OS in the world.
> OpenMoko costs $300 with a 640x480 screen and GPS (the $450 and $600 include development hardware, something that costs thousands of dollars from other vendors).
As much as I like the OpenMoko, this statement is somewhat deceptive.
The pricing for the Neo1973 direct from OpenMoko.com is as follows:
Now: $300 -- base phone with 266MHz ARM processor, 128MB RAM, and no WiFi $450 -- same phone + hardware development kit
The phone sold now is intended for developers only and is not marketed for mainstream (but you can still get it if you want, of course).
October: $450 -- base phone with 400MHz ARM processor, 256MB RAM, and built-in Atheros WiFi $600 -- same phone + hardware development kit
In contrast, the iPhone is either $500 or $600 depending on the model. You're locked to AT&T, don't get a GPS (which comes with the Neo1973), but you do get a camera (which doesn't come with the OpenMoko). Who knows what processor you get (some think 667MHz ARM, but others say 400MHz ARM) or how much RAM you get (Google turns up nothing; neither does Apple's "tech specs" site on the phone). In some sense it doesn't matter, because you're stuck with the iPhone bundled software anyway.
So yeah, $450 for Neo1973 versus $500 for iPhone. Both are pricy, and the Neo1973 is only $50 cheaper. However, I think you're getting a ton more with the Neo1973 anyway. I don't really want a camera on my phone, and I do really want a GPS.
> I agree that it's difficult, however the reality is that the market has defined the standard, and there is a way of making it happen. Yes, it will be difficult, but life's challenges are what make it fun, don't you think?
Putting forth using the Windows binary file format as the primary Linux application format is asinine, to say the least. Compatibility through WINE is one thing, but the primary executable file format for Linux is and should be ELF. And no, the market has not defined the bastardized COFF format used by Windows as the standard. No one except Microsoft uses it, and everyone else with a COFF format is moving to ELF. There's life outside your pathetic, x86 desktop software universe.
> The WINE Project has been running for a decade and a half now, and is not too much closer to full Windows support than it was when it started.
That is an untrue insult to the WINE project. WINE has made tremendous progress and is useful to a lot of people in allowing specialized Windows applicatiosn to run in a Linux environment. It's possible to get almost any app you want running under it if you're willing to put forth the effort.
WINE gets closer to full Windows support with every release, and in another 5 years or so, it might very well be there.
Beyond the way I mentioned, which does involve one participant using the approved player, as long as it's possible to look at the DRM system inside of a VM (which will even be possible if it depends on a TPM, because TPM systems are hackable), there will be inexpensive ways to hack the format that don't involve using a non-Linux machine at all.
Here's one way you can crack any DRM system so that you can play the video files on Linux. Person A is a DRM cracker with many machines, and Person B is a user with only a Linux machine:
A: Legitimately obtain license key for video and use approved player to watch it. While watching it, point a video camera at the monitor so that it captures only the screen. Post resultant video to p2p network of choice.
B: Download resultant video from p2p network. Watch with standard video player.
> I don't believe it's yet possible, for example, to watch DRM-protected WMV files on Linux, even if you have the W32 codecs pack installed.
Your phrasing means you don't know. I don't know either, and I use Linux exclusively. That shows you how important playing DRMed WMV files is.
DRM is impossible to implement correctly because it is theoretically impossible to do. The only reason any DRM system isn't cracked is because no one has cared enough yet to crack it.
The earliest versions of WMV DRM probably were just so easy to crack that someone did it without really trying, but when they fixed the most obvious holes... no one really cared enough to actually bother.
If WMV DRM gets used on anything people actually want to watch (like the BBC), it will be cracked.
> If you've got top grades, you earn a chance at being accepted to a Law school (for example). Once you've done your time, you are practically guaranteed a six-figure income: that's money in your pocket because you excelled at school.
And then after you install this stuff, you write a piece of software that does exactly what you want, how you want it done. It might be good to take an OSS app that does/almost/ exactly what you want, how you want it done as your base, because that way you'll have to write less code, but do whatever you feel is easiest from a software engineering perspective.
Unless you at least partially write your own software, you will/NEVER/ get exactly what you want from it, whether you use Windows, Linux, or Plan 9 from Bell Labs. Everyone wants something slightly different and everyone has different tastes. At least with open source, you can start with a good base to build on. With closed-source you're stuck with what they give you. With closed-source, if you want to make it right, you'll have to start from scratch.
What, you're not willing or not able to put forth this effort? Well, OSS owes you nothing; they're trying to make the software THEY want, after all. How about shutting up and letting us get back to that? k thx.
I assume you've seen the MS Office code base then, and aren't just talking out of your ass?
You're at least wrong about OO being a Sun-only project. Novell, for example, contributes a significant amount of developer effort to the project.
I've seen OO's code and I think that OO is a gargantuan monstrosity of object-oriented crap. use it, but don't particularly like it, and have been toying with the idea of learning LaTeX so I can get away from it.
However, I'd imagine that MS Office is an even more gargantuan monstrosity. Office is older, too, and MS doesn't have a good track record of keeping code "clean", so you can see the type of thing I'm imagining has happened to it.
For the record, I haven't seen the code for MS Office. However, I know someone who did, and he informs me that the user interface code for Excel alone is over 2GB.
2GB of source code. For the Excel UI.
That's a pig.
Re:A question for large print graphics designers..
on
The History of Photoshop
·
· Score: 2, Informative
I don't know about the truth of your other statements, but stop spreading the lie about lack of CMYK support:
Slashdot Mirror
> True measure of intelligence
... no. Neither chess nor poker is a measure of intelligence. Take an IQ test if you're interested in that.
Umm
Come to think about it, computers taking IQ tests would be interesting..
> If roles were reversed and if you think a company would give you your money back then you're delusional...
...or you don't live in the US.
I've gotten my money back from companies when the situation was reversed.
>
in the U.S.
> Or an ultra-idealized, removed-from-reality college student.
Living inside of a college student would be difficult. Please learn to use the English language correctly.
> Purchasing gas at a sub-market value fits neither. Purchasing gas is a contract. Period. They offer gas at a price. You accept that price. IANAL, but what I know about contract law says that consideration (ie, what you pay) need not be market value nor adequate (like selling property for a dollar).
There's such a thing as a "partial gift" that is used for calculating gift taxes. But IANAL either, which is why I called GP a scumbag and not a criminal.
> If this were with a charity, I'd probably agree with you. Defrauding, stealing, or taking advantage of an organization intended to serve others is pathetic. *But* it's a purchasing contract with someone who's only goal is to take as much of your money as they can.
He was doing the equivalent of taking advantage of a typo in the contract. Which is being a scumbag, even if it's not illegal.
> Welcome to capitalism: dog eat dog. I hope your naivete doesn't bite you where it hurts later.
F@#$ you. I'd be more explicit, but I'm at work right now.
> Does that mean I can be jailed? Just because I'm taking advantage of someone else's screwup?
I don't know if you can legally be jailed. However, you are a dirty, dishonest scumbag. It's situations like yours where you prove whether or not you're a good person. You're not one.
> If your CMS/wiki/document repository supports DAV then you dont need a plug-in, you do it at the OS level and any application can do it.
Where can I find out how to do this? Does it involve FUSE?
> gcc does thread-safe initialization of local static variables -- Visual C++ does not.
3 .html/ 08/85901.aspx
VC++ does do threadsafe static initialization.
You're dead wrong and grandparent is dead-right. References follow.
GCC: http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2004-08/msg0229
MSVC: http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2004/03
Microsoft's position is that the standard requires their (undesirable) behavior. I guess GCC either disagrees or is providing a language extension. For what it's worth, MSVC doesn't have a great track record on correct standard interpretation. (C++ header file naming bug, for one example...)
> And in any case, gcc runs on windows so it's not exactly a windows issue is it?
gcc runs on everything. Consider it a comparison of the "native" compilers of both OSes.
> Windows has better support for multithreaded apps, it has a far richer set of thread/process synchronisation objects (mutexs, critical sections, semaphores, alertable wait states, events) than unix does.
Now you're just throwing out random terms for multithreaded programming concepts, all of which can be implemented in any OS that provides an API for multithreaded programming. As is typical, the Windows uses a nonstandard, proprietary API, while Linux uses an open standard (the POSIX pthreads library).
Just to make it clear that the Windows API is not "richer", let me point out that you can actually write a wrapper around either API that makes it look like the other, and people have done so.
> Now, as far as 32k 'busy' running threads leaving the machine still responsive... let's just try that out..
Don't be retarded. But since you already were, my sibling poster has responded that this doesn't kill Linux stone-dead, though it does slow it down quite a bit, so you even lose your own retarded benchmark contest. Ouch.
> You sir, are a geek. You think like a geek, act like a geek, and most importantly, are arrogant, like a geek. You are one in 10,000 or 100,000. You are not the marketplace.
> Your little PIM you are so proud of, probably wouldn't make it in the world if you gave it away.
You, sir, are an asshole. I know I'm a geek (damn proud of it, too). And I don't care if other people use my PIM; it was designed with me as its sole intended user. What's this have to do with anything?
> And the Neo1973 may be able to do lots of things, but it isn't as easy or user friendly as the iPhone.
Considering that the Neo1973 hasn't been released in its final form, you have no basis for that statement.
> So, development of the iPhone, adding applications and such will be measured in time.
To the extent that statement makes any sense, there's no SDK for the iPhone, so there won't be any applications added in time.
> I'd be willing to bet, that there will be more application, more development and the iPhone will have many more versions available in 5 years than the Neo1973 will. I'd even be willing to bet that the Neo1973 or relatives might be extinct by then.
Nah, not more applications. The Neo1973 will have most of standard Linux, while the iPhone might have "Weather applet" or "Quicktime 3000" or similar Apple-generated nonsense.
As far as more versions, well, Apple usually doesn't get products even minimally stable/working the first time out the door, so probably yeah.
As far as Neo1973 being extinct, well I hope not because I think it's a cool project, but I don't know. Lots of good products aren't commercially successful. I was stating that Neo1973 was a good product, and superior to the iPhone, not that it would be a commercial success.
I'm right, and you're an idiot. I'd say something more constructive if you did, but you didn't, so I won't.
> You're not trying to come up with a general purpose algorithm for determining if any algorithm halts, you're coming up with an algorithm to trace the execution path of a specific algorithm that you already know halts, based on a limited instruction set.
/the algorithms don't need to be cracked/. DRM is /not/ an encryption problem: you have access to the plaintext already!
Nope, a program running in a VM is just like any other program, and all programs have "limited instruction sets". My understanding is that there's no guarantee a BD+ algorithm will naturally halt. If you know otherwise, do tell, but I doubt you do because otherwise you would have argued better in your post.
> Of course, a software player could blow things open all the same -- that's really the only way that even AACS is being cracked even now.
Oh, get it through your thick head that
> In this case, you have to come up with something which can determine the full dynamic runtime execution path of a static binary - a currently unsolved problem in Computer Science, despite numerous attempts to do such a thing by some of the world's brightest minds.
You do not do the Halting Problem justice. Few if any bright minds are trying to solve it, because it is unsolvable. Trying to solve it is like trying to build a perpetual motion machine.
> Well it means that a full crack of BD+ will require crackers to implement a virtual machine which acts in exactly the same way as the hardware VM would act.
Well, if there's a software player, you could also use that. And this VM is probably pretty simple since it's specialized; the hardest part would be figuring out the specification.
All of your comments are irrelevant to actually getting around the DRM. You can yell all you want, "WAAAH! THEY CHOSE A GOOD ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM," but the fact that DRM is impossible still remains.
If it's too inconvenient to crack it, then rerecord the unencrypted output as it comes out of a legitimate player. It's that simple. You can't hide and reveal information simultaneously, and no amount of cute obfuscation in the player code will stop that.
The absolute worst that this can do is make it so that you can't play protected BD+ discs in Linux without WINE or VMWare or something. In this case, the easy and obvious workaround is to pirate the movie you want and burn it, unprotected, to the media of your choice. And, as available bandwidth continues to increase, this workaround will become even easier.
> Wrong. You're not getting ANYTHING close to being "a ton more", except .... POTENTIAL.
/even in the worst case/, I think you're getting a ton more from the Neo1973 than from the iPhone.
No, that's not true. The phone will come with bundled software you can use to do common tasks, just like the iPhone. If you're not interested in developing apps for the phone, you won't have to. However, if you are interested, the ability will be there for you.
I am interested; the ability to run arbitrary Unix C++ code on my phone is an important feature for me, because I have written a PIM in C++ for Linux. It is currently ported to my Sun workstation, my HP laptop, and my Sharp Zaurus. A phone's development environment is a feature for me, not a sign of potential.
I carefully avoided saying that you were getting a ton more from the Neo1973 because the OSS community will port tons of stuff to it, since you're correct that this is not certain (though I think it likely). I said you're getting a ton more from the Neo1973 because of the hardware features, even if the only way you use them is through the generic bundled software that comes with the phone.
That is,
> If you count the millions of embedded devices that run gnu/linux I'm sure it would be considered the worlds most popular OS. It's all in how you want to swing the numbers.
Actually, if you count embedded OSes VxWorks is the most popular OS in the world.
Sorry, submitted too soon:
:)
Plus, being able to run 3rd-party apps and hack my phone's software is REALLY cool
> OpenMoko costs $300 with a 640x480 screen and GPS (the $450 and $600 include development hardware, something that costs thousands of dollars from other vendors).
As much as I like the OpenMoko, this statement is somewhat deceptive.
The pricing for the Neo1973 direct from OpenMoko.com is as follows:
Now:
$300 -- base phone with 266MHz ARM processor, 128MB RAM, and no WiFi
$450 -- same phone + hardware development kit
The phone sold now is intended for developers only and is not marketed for mainstream (but you can still get it if you want, of course).
October:
$450 -- base phone with 400MHz ARM processor, 256MB RAM, and built-in Atheros WiFi
$600 -- same phone + hardware development kit
In contrast, the iPhone is either $500 or $600 depending on the model. You're locked to AT&T, don't get a GPS (which comes with the Neo1973), but you do get a camera (which doesn't come with the OpenMoko). Who knows what processor you get (some think 667MHz ARM, but others say 400MHz ARM) or how much RAM you get (Google turns up nothing; neither does Apple's "tech specs" site on the phone). In some sense it doesn't matter, because you're stuck with the iPhone bundled software anyway.
So yeah, $450 for Neo1973 versus $500 for iPhone. Both are pricy, and the Neo1973 is only $50 cheaper. However, I think you're getting a ton more with the Neo1973 anyway. I don't really want a camera on my phone, and I do really want a GPS.
Umm ... Google Earth isn't a WINE app.
IA64 isn't a RISC ISA. It's a (poorly designed) VLIW one.
> I agree that it's difficult, however the reality is that the market has defined the standard, and there is a way of making it happen. Yes, it will be difficult, but life's challenges are what make it fun, don't you think?
Putting forth using the Windows binary file format as the primary Linux application format is asinine, to say the least. Compatibility through WINE is one thing, but the primary executable file format for Linux is and should be ELF. And no, the market has not defined the bastardized COFF format used by Windows as the standard. No one except Microsoft uses it, and everyone else with a COFF format is moving to ELF. There's life outside your pathetic, x86 desktop software universe.
> The WINE Project has been running for a decade and a half now, and is not too much closer to full Windows support than it was when it started.
That is an untrue insult to the WINE project. WINE has made tremendous progress and is useful to a lot of people in allowing specialized Windows applicatiosn to run in a Linux environment. It's possible to get almost any app you want running under it if you're willing to put forth the effort.
WINE gets closer to full Windows support with every release, and in another 5 years or so, it might very well be there.
Beyond the way I mentioned, which does involve one participant using the approved player, as long as it's possible to look at the DRM system inside of a VM (which will even be possible if it depends on a TPM, because TPM systems are hackable), there will be inexpensive ways to hack the format that don't involve using a non-Linux machine at all.
*sigh*
Here's one way you can crack any DRM system so that you can play the video files on Linux. Person A is a DRM cracker with many machines, and Person B is a user with only a Linux machine:
A: Legitimately obtain license key for video and use approved player to watch it. While watching it, point a video camera at the monitor so that it captures only the screen. Post resultant video to p2p network of choice.
B: Download resultant video from p2p network. Watch with standard video player.
This will never be closed, because it can't be.
> I don't believe it's yet possible, for example, to watch DRM-protected WMV files on Linux, even if you have the W32 codecs pack installed.
... no one really cared enough to actually bother.
Your phrasing means you don't know. I don't know either, and I use Linux exclusively. That shows you how important playing DRMed WMV files is.
DRM is impossible to implement correctly because it is theoretically impossible to do. The only reason any DRM system isn't cracked is because no one has cared enough yet to crack it.
The earliest versions of WMV DRM probably were just so easy to crack that someone did it without really trying, but when they fixed the most obvious holes
If WMV DRM gets used on anything people actually want to watch (like the BBC), it will be cracked.
I just tried it on Linux/x86 with Konqueror 3.5.7. It passes all of them, so it looks like Opera won't be the first after all.
> If you've got top grades, you earn a chance at being accepted to a Law school (for example). Once you've done your time, you are practically guaranteed a six-figure income: that's money in your pocket because you excelled at school.
/ _Lawyer/Salary
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Attorney_
More like, "almost a 6-figure income after 20 years". You, like many non-lawyers, grossly overestimate how much lawyers are paid.
> It may feel good, but if it doesn't do what I want and how I want it to, then I'm not buying it.
/almost/ exactly what you want, how you want it done as your base, because that way you'll have to write less code, but do whatever you feel is easiest from a software engineering perspective.
/NEVER/ get exactly what you want from it, whether you use Windows, Linux, or Plan 9 from Bell Labs. Everyone wants something slightly different and everyone has different tastes. At least with open source, you can start with a good base to build on. With closed-source you're stuck with what they give you. With closed-source, if you want to make it right, you'll have to start from scratch.
I hear you, man. Here's how you go about getting apps like that. You just need a few simple tools:
vi or emacs: you can get from http://www.vim.org/ or http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/, respectively
C compiler: very good one @ http://gcc.gnu.org/
OS: kernelspace of a good one is @ http://www.kernel.org/ but there are others.
And then after you install this stuff, you write a piece of software that does exactly what you want, how you want it done. It might be good to take an OSS app that does
Unless you at least partially write your own software, you will
What, you're not willing or not able to put forth this effort? Well, OSS owes you nothing; they're trying to make the software THEY want, after all. How about shutting up and letting us get back to that? k thx.
I assume you've seen the MS Office code base then, and aren't just talking out of your ass?
You're at least wrong about OO being a Sun-only project. Novell, for example, contributes a significant amount of developer effort to the project.
I've seen OO's code and I think that OO is a gargantuan monstrosity of object-oriented crap. use it, but don't particularly like it, and have been toying with the idea of learning LaTeX so I can get away from it.
However, I'd imagine that MS Office is an even more gargantuan monstrosity. Office is older, too, and MS doesn't have a good track record of keeping code "clean", so you can see the type of thing I'm imagining has happened to it.
For the record, I haven't seen the code for MS Office. However, I know someone who did, and he informs me that the user interface code for Excel alone is over 2GB.
2GB of source code. For the Excel UI.
That's a pig.
I don't know about the truth of your other statements, but stop spreading the lie about lack of CMYK support:
http://www.blackfiveservices.co.uk/separate.shtml
Maybe there's something wrong with it; tell the developers if there is. But don't say it doesn't exist, because it does.
Thanks, now have a nice day.