Finally someone said it. It's about time!! The difference between science and religion is fundamental. Science is open minded to all things, religious beliefs included, building on a system of repeatable often tested ideas. Religion is closed minded, rejecting anything it disagrees with, often violently in favor of its own ideas only.
My god has a bigger dick than your god! -- George Carlin
"Maybe you don't like the charter school's rule about sharpie pens, but it is ignorant and unproductive to response across the board with an anti-authority perspective."
He may be a little extreme but I haven't seen is any comments about the public school system is over a hundred years old. It's had to deal with generational growth and depopulation of districts, value shifts, and major culture changes. How long do you think a charter school will stick around when a the district population changes(kids grow up, company leaves town) causing a decrease in students and income? The charter school is doing great with donations from billionaires but what happens when it just has to depend on the locals and still has to take everyone? Some how I doubt the end result will be any different, especially over generations. Fact is your parent poster is probably closer on target than most of us. If business will cut money on oil pipeline maintenance to increase profits what about your kids in little slave factories(once public eye shifts) in the name of profit?
"$5 seems enough to be discouraging to the students without breaking anybody's back."
What happens when the kickbacks start? Or when the cutbacks for profits start? Idiotic experiments for bonuses. Don't forget "Greed is good". I guess we've given up on teaching kids anything but the value of money. How does that work when the dollar is worth pennies? How about when the bigger kids respond to the fine by using violence?
Remember authority only works if its respected. Just because you level a fine doesn't mean that kid won't take it out of your hide. When I was in high school, there were guys beating up the principals.
How about just getting rid of the babysitting/social club schools have become and have the kids educated at home. With the internet there's no excuse for these dog-eat-dog sub-communities any longer. Of course, that would mean parents would have to be parents instead of ambition chasers with kids on the side.
"You're not bitching because Apple is doing something wrong. You're bitching because they aren't continuing to give you a free ride which benefits them in absolutely no way what so ever. Its not even like they get any good will out of it from the OSS community, douche bags like yourself bitch no matter how much they contribute back. This is why you're group of zealots will always be ignored. You do nothing but bitch about free shit given to you out of good will."
"You're not cynical, you're just a selfish asshole."
I love arrogant asses like you especially when you're wrong.
Who do you think supported these projects with free testing and patches? CUPS wouldn't have had shit to sell to Apple if it wasn't for the OSS public testing it on thousands of machines and submitting bug reports and patches in the years since CUPS was started to now. So yes, the OSS public has every right to bitch about a company chopping up a working system the public has time in on. Just because the effort isn't measured in dollars doesn't mean contributions weren't made in the environment and support over years for the developer who basically, in the current situation, got the best of the deal. Given Apple's history, they will try to lock it down eventually as that's in their best interest and shorting the rest of us. Apple's behavior is little more than Microsofts with extra BS and the moment OSS is a liability it will be out the window.
By the way, cups 1.5 doesn't detect Xerox printers, at least not the 8500 series the offices I support were independently upgraded with. Thanks for increasing my workload.
"but they most certainly do not have the experience to make informed decisions or a real grasp of the concept of consequence"
Neither do college kids, hazing and drunken stupidity come to mind, but their still adults under the law. They are still learning and it doesn't stop ever so you're definition is incorrect.
"We're a better society for making sure that DOESN'T happen,"
Are we, just ask that guy who's on a sex-crime list for just having consentual sex with a girl of 16 when he was 18. Is his life better? And what about the others affected by this artificial legal stupidity. The more affected, the more society is affected.
"what's a disorder is a willingness to act on these impulses."
Just because you disagree doesn't make it a disorder. Maybe the law or your views are the disorder. "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" isn't always right, hence "If someone jumps off a bridge, should you?" Life is action, everything else is talking out your ass. Law is often wrong, the reason we have court battles.
"giving advice on intoxicating, seducing, and fucking people is wrong."
I'm surprised the guy had to ask as this scenario has been used in various media for decades. The young girl isn't even new as I remember references to similar situations in the 70's in movies, and books. Speaking of books, lets not leave out the bible and several historical references.
Thing is I think people just don't care anymore. They definitely don't remember much or learn from history. But others don't learn either that just because it was wrong then doesn't mean it is now. The deafness goes both ways. The worst part is all this whining about something that's been going on for millenia and it's not going away soon regardless of whatever purge is currently going on. Kind of like the oldest profession, just from the arrest reports it's doing quite well even with the legal justification no longer relevant.
"He received advice about how to get her drunk, how to gradually introduce her to some physical intimacy via backrubs and neck massage, and gradually escalate to fully sexual encounters."
You've described one of the basic predatory behaviors of every male on the planet when going after females.
Funny, don't buddies give the same/similar advice, when you haven't figured it out yourself, to each other from early teen years to late twenties when chasing women in the Y/clubs/bars/etc. Well, except in bars women often get themselves wasted. Not everyone looks like Brad Pitt, every little trick helps in a game of traps and one-sided rules.
Fact is evolution is slow, social arrogance is fast.
"The essential problem with pedophilia is that children can't consent in an informed fashion."
How do you know children can't consent in an informed fashion? If they are educated first isn't that informed consent? Even uneducated and just by instinct they understand better than distracted teens and twentysomethings. Your statement assumes the children haven't already learned/experienced on their own exploration from/with their friends/media/enemies etc.
How can you give informed consent when you don't know about it yet? Even adults can't give informed consent if they haven't learned or experienced the subject yet.
"Police go after people possessing part of a dead plant to combat the production of said plant. Police go after possession of child pornography to combat the production of child pornography. "
Except it doesn't stop production of said plant or porn. Police are just harassing the consumers. If you want to stop production get it at the source, otherwise it's just a power game. The fact is it's just a way to single out and control a group of people you can't directly stop(unless you want a general uprising to happen). Just take a group of people and target them with labels that they are porn users or druggies and the public ignores them and the police can harass them any way they want. Divide and conquer. Keep adding people to the list and asking for more money and before long everyone is divided and controlled. A slippery slope it is and an open door for the corrupt.
Remember just because you don't like it, whether you understand it or not, doesn't mean it's wrong. We all have our own views on how life should be lived. It's not your right to trample on some else's life if it's not harming you. That freedom of speech/religion/privacy/gun thing. Even government is limited, limits they are trying and succeeding to roll back everyday, and if what is being done by individuals is not hurting anyone else than so be it.
Let he who has the perfect existence cast the first stone. (none of us do have a perfect existence)
"Theoretically, by making the possession of child pornography more dangerous, they are reducing the value of it. Which in turn reduces the demand for production and thus the value inherent in producing it."
Theoretically, but in reality making child porn illegal does just what it did for drugs. It increases the value via scarcity and damages society by increased abuse of the public by power hungry people using/abusing often outdated or overreaching laws. Thereby criminalizing a good sized chunk of the public doing something that is non-violent, fun, and often harmless except to those with agendas. Demand never went down and actually has gone up as it's now forbidden fruit. The laws only drove the real child porn production underground, just like drugs. Child porn has only been illegal since 1976 and those laws were passed to prevent excessive child neglect via business profiteering due to the cost of creation not to go after individuals who view it/use it. When kids can create their porn and send it to their friends for nothing the law has been made completely irrelevant. And children do have rights of choice even if as adults we don't like to admit it. I haven't been seeing anything in the news in awhile about prosecutors going after kids, guess they realized pissing off their voter parents by severely abusing measures wasn't such a good idea. Never mind what those kids learned and with how they'll think and act when they grow up. I won't even comment on prosecutions of 18 year old boys/men screwing their 16 year old girlfriends.
Talk to your parents, the USA was doing just fine before these idiotic laws were passed. Besides we're all child molesters when were young. What do you think all that sexual shit we go through as children, teenagers, and twenty-somethings is about. Somehow I don't think decade old laws and hundred year old cultural views will ever override million year old hormonal and sexual drives.
Speaking of drugs I see cigarettes and alcohol is still legal given the expense of production as much of it's subsidized, and the huge body of evidence of addiction and abuse by producers and users. While a useful, free growing weed, marijuana(hemp) that is cheap to produce, available everywhere, and is not addictive, is illegal.
Somehow forbidding a private citizen from possessing anything, that's not actively hurting someone else, in a supposedly free country seems kind of wrong.
Since we're going after everyone else. Why are those private fusion/chemical/biologi
The saudi government did have a hand in 9/11. They protected and supported radical clerics who had taught the 9/11 hijackers for decades. The government knew what was going on and thought nothing of it or the end result regardless of the various incidents and warnings in their sphere of influence.
"Just putting it out there...if you're going to call it civil disobedience, then make sure that you're down with the road you're choosing to travel. Civil disobedience means that if they decide to sue you that you plead guilty to the crime, take the sentence they give you, and forego appeals. Civil disobedience means that you believe in your cause enough to take the punishment they dish out in order to make an example as to how harmful the rules are with the hope that your sacrifice will influence positive change."
"Civil disobedience" is just a nice term for ignoring the law in order to challenge it. Bad laws are meant to be broken.
"Using the principle famously exemplified by Gandhi and Rosa Parks is admirable, as long as you're willing to go to the lengths that they're willing to go in order to do it. If that's genuinely your goal, and you're okay with it, then I applaud you and support you. However, if you're going at this with even the slightest intent to settle out of court, plead 'not guilty', or appeal a verdict, then you're not following a cause, you're justifying copyright infringement."
Responsibility of challenging a law you deem bad doesn't mean just lying down and getting stomped on as a means to fight it. It also means fighting to win otherwise you're at the mercy of everyone else to do something instead of doing it yourself. We use the tools and methods at hand that work. If it means blowing off the feet of those trying to stomp you so be it.
"Personally, I'll settle for using Spotify."
Another one who hasn't learned from history or Ben Franklin about liberty and security.
Right across a primary groundwater source that runs from North Dakota to Texas. And much of the ground water source in Nebraska is near the surface. Care to guess how much of our food and agri-resources, for ourselves and sold to other countries, is produced by irrigation? Do you want the odds of all those fields across 9 states being sprayed with oil and made unproductive before the oil company admits there was a leak (or rupture) in a buried pipeline that no one will know about until it's to late?
Let us just place this pipeline there maintained by an industry that's got a history ignoring maintenance for profits. The very reason they want it there in the first place, profits from exporting the nastiest, most expensive crude made to international markets instead of local ones. Is it worth risking starvation? Oil is transitory and not necessary to survive, food is necessary to survive. How many disasters does it take before big oil, hell any business, is deemed untrustworthy in their decision making when it comes to the public vs profit?
So let them just transport the nastiest, dirtiest, crude oil en mass across much of our most productive agricultural land and over our largest underground aquifer that also services many central US cities. The whole thing managed by irresponsible oil conglomerates and local politicians who just see the tax dollars for the first decade until the pipeline depreciates out(no more taxes) and physically fails due to lack of oil company maintenance(plenty of citations). Guess those temporary jobs and few years of taxes will be worth the cleanup, starvation, and other hell, right?
Citation: I live here and am responsible for some of the very food and resources you consume.
This is not a worse case scenario just one based on previous and current behavior of the various participants.
This also assumes the pipeline will be built properly and not cost cut in the first place or specs ignored, see gulf disaster.
PS I'm actually surprised other countries aren't screaming bloody murder as many of them get food from the US as well.
I haven't seen anyone question the method that made this man captain in charge of a massive vessel in the first place. It isn't a military ship but civilian ship run the way any business would run it. Profit high, costs low so it doesn't surprise me of incidents like this happening every so often as people are there for themselves/paycheck who move up the corporate ladder. They aren't battle hardened combat troops with patriotic ideals and responsibilities and time honored hard experience in the trenches but people trained to do a job but not truly tested. Real training and tests cost money and psychological tests for those in charge cost more money and might set a trend.(executives next) Remember they are there to make money, that includes the corporations above and everyone below them. So if you are going to bitch about the captain and command crew you better more than question the system that put them there. I also wonder about various audits(crew, safety, training, etc) or were the only real ones that mattered financial.
Like the captain responsible for the ship, corporations/owners are responsible for the captain. Of course, these are corporations potentially at fault, can't have that. The blame will stop here and nothing will be done and later disasters will happen and the scapegoating will continue.
"If it turns out that the captain ordered the ship illegally close to the island, be it as a favor to the chef or following an order to create a show for the passengers, then the wreckage is indeed his responsibility. We can't have people with authority to make decisions directly affecting the lives of thousands of people rescind responsibility whenever they fuck up. When power and responsibility don't coincide, bad things happen. At sea, a captain has full authority and full responsibility."
Look at world economic behavior since Reagan or better behavior since 2008 and say that again. Nobody is locking up corporate or government leaders for the fucking the public has suffered the last several years.(deaths included) This incident is nothing by comparison and the captain will probably be facing death for it. Let's hold the noise of hypocrisy down to jet engine levels please.
The guy crashed an ocean liner, any excuse/reason is going to be pathetic.
Remember the guy is just working a job like the rest of us and most likely for the same selfish reasons so cut him some slack.
The captain was right, it's dark with the ship in a dangerous position and him being possibly compromised(drunk, etc) it could be sending him to his death and could be viewed as the guard captain attempting to murder him. Being part of the incident, potentially compromised, in his condition he would have been a little help anyway. I doubt willingly getting killed is part of the job description regardless of what public perception says. Telling him to go back was just plain irresponsible and stupid.
Slashdot Mirror
"In any case, they're bad because I said so (because I don't like them)."
"In the words of my generation, UP YOURS!!!" -- Independence Day
There, he didn't use a curse word. But I will you arrogant ass. To hell with what you don't like.
"It was running perfectly on minimal hardware when I tried it."
And what's the definition of minimal on the planet you live on?
"Science is about having an open mind."
Finally someone said it. It's about time!! The difference between science and religion is fundamental. Science is open minded to all things, religious beliefs included, building on a system of repeatable often tested ideas. Religion is closed minded, rejecting anything it disagrees with, often violently in favor of its own ideas only.
My god has a bigger dick than your god! -- George Carlin
"Maybe you don't like the charter school's rule about sharpie pens, but it is ignorant and unproductive to response across the board with an anti-authority perspective."
He may be a little extreme but I haven't seen is any comments about the public school system is over a hundred years old. It's had to deal with generational growth and depopulation of districts, value shifts, and major culture changes. How long do you think a charter school will stick around when a the district population changes(kids grow up, company leaves town) causing a decrease in students and income? The charter school is doing great with donations from billionaires but what happens when it just has to depend on the locals and still has to take everyone? Some how I doubt the end result will be any different, especially over generations. Fact is your parent poster is probably closer on target than most of us. If business will cut money on oil pipeline maintenance to increase profits what about your kids in little slave factories(once public eye shifts) in the name of profit?
"$5 seems enough to be discouraging to the students without breaking anybody's back."
What happens when the kickbacks start? Or when the cutbacks for profits start? Idiotic experiments for bonuses. Don't forget "Greed is good". I guess we've given up on teaching kids anything but the value of money. How does that work when the dollar is worth pennies? How about when the bigger kids respond to the fine by using violence?
Remember authority only works if its respected. Just because you level a fine doesn't mean that kid won't take it out of your hide. When I was in high school, there were guys beating up the principals.
How about just getting rid of the babysitting/social club schools have become and have the kids educated at home. With the internet there's no excuse for these dog-eat-dog sub-communities any longer. Of course, that would mean parents would have to be parents instead of ambition chasers with kids on the side.
"Students aren't required to go to the school,"
Tell that to the truant officer.
"then choose a different school."
Wake me up when there's actually a viable choice.
"You're not bitching because Apple is doing something wrong. You're bitching because they aren't continuing to give you a free ride which benefits them in absolutely no way what so ever. Its not even like they get any good will out of it from the OSS community, douche bags like yourself bitch no matter how much they contribute back. This is why you're group of zealots will always be ignored. You do nothing but bitch about free shit given to you out of good will."
"You're not cynical, you're just a selfish asshole."
I love arrogant asses like you especially when you're wrong.
Who do you think supported these projects with free testing and patches? CUPS wouldn't have had shit to sell to Apple if it wasn't for the OSS public testing it on thousands of machines and submitting bug reports and patches in the years since CUPS was started to now. So yes, the OSS public has every right to bitch about a company chopping up a working system the public has time in on. Just because the effort isn't measured in dollars doesn't mean contributions weren't made in the environment and support over years for the developer who basically, in the current situation, got the best of the deal. Given Apple's history, they will try to lock it down eventually as that's in their best interest and shorting the rest of us. Apple's behavior is little more than Microsofts with extra BS and the moment OSS is a liability it will be out the window.
By the way, cups 1.5 doesn't detect Xerox printers, at least not the 8500 series the offices I support were independently upgraded with. Thanks for increasing my workload.
"The guideline that has been around since before language was invented is "if you do something stupid then you live with the consequences"."
I guess no one has read "The Scarlet Letter" then. Since information on the net is forever and accessible by anyone that story is more true than ever.
"but they most certainly do not have the experience to make informed decisions or a real grasp of the concept of consequence"
Neither do college kids, hazing and drunken stupidity come to mind, but their still adults under the law. They are still learning and it doesn't stop ever so you're definition is incorrect.
"We're a better society for making sure that DOESN'T happen,"
Are we, just ask that guy who's on a sex-crime list for just having consentual sex with a girl of 16 when he was 18. Is his life better? And what about the others affected by this artificial legal stupidity. The more affected, the more society is affected.
"what's a disorder is a willingness to act on these impulses."
Just because you disagree doesn't make it a disorder. Maybe the law or your views are the disorder. "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" isn't always right, hence "If someone jumps off a bridge, should you?"
Life is action, everything else is talking out your ass. Law is often wrong, the reason we have court battles.
"entertainment company that would be ..."
My bets he's talking about Disney except they've been doing it for 70 years with the mickey mouse club already.
"giving advice on intoxicating, seducing, and fucking people is wrong."
I'm surprised the guy had to ask as this scenario has been used in various media for decades. The young girl isn't even new as I remember references to similar situations in the 70's in movies, and books. Speaking of books, lets not leave out the bible and several historical references.
Thing is I think people just don't care anymore. They definitely don't remember much or learn from history. But others don't learn either that just because it was wrong then doesn't mean it is now. The deafness goes both ways. The worst part is all this whining about something that's been going on for millenia and it's not going away soon regardless of whatever purge is currently going on. Kind of like the oldest profession, just from the arrest reports it's doing quite well even with the legal justification no longer relevant.
"He received advice about how to get her drunk, how to gradually introduce her to some physical intimacy via backrubs and neck massage, and gradually escalate to fully sexual encounters."
You've described one of the basic predatory behaviors of every male on the planet when going after females.
Funny, don't buddies give the same/similar advice, when you haven't figured it out yourself, to each other from early teen years to late twenties when chasing women in the Y/clubs/bars/etc. Well, except in bars women often get themselves wasted. Not everyone looks like Brad Pitt, every little trick helps in a game of traps and one-sided rules.
Fact is evolution is slow, social arrogance is fast.
"The essential problem with pedophilia is that children can't consent in an informed fashion."
How do you know children can't consent in an informed fashion? If they are educated first isn't that informed consent? Even uneducated and just by instinct they understand better than distracted teens and twentysomethings. Your statement assumes the children haven't already learned/experienced on their own exploration from/with their friends/media/enemies etc.
How can you give informed consent when you don't know about it yet? Even adults can't give informed consent if they haven't learned or experienced the subject yet.
"Police go after people possessing part of a dead plant to combat the production of said plant. Police go after possession of child pornography to combat the production of child pornography. "
Except it doesn't stop production of said plant or porn. Police are just harassing the consumers. If you want to stop production get it at the source, otherwise it's just a power game. The fact is it's just a way to single out and control a group of people you can't directly stop(unless you want a general uprising to happen). Just take a group of people and target them with labels that they are porn users or druggies and the public ignores them and the police can harass them any way they want. Divide and conquer. Keep adding people to the list and asking for more money and before long everyone is divided and controlled. A slippery slope it is and an open door for the corrupt.
Remember just because you don't like it, whether you understand it or not, doesn't mean it's wrong. We all have our own views on how life should be lived. It's not your right to trample on some else's life if it's not harming you. That freedom of speech/religion/privacy/gun thing. Even government is limited, limits they are trying and succeeding to roll back everyday, and if what is being done by individuals is not hurting anyone else than so be it.
Let he who has the perfect existence cast the first stone. (none of us do have a perfect existence)
"Theoretically, by making the possession of child pornography more dangerous, they are reducing the value of it. Which in turn reduces the demand for production and thus the value inherent in producing it."
Theoretically, but in reality making child porn illegal does just what it did for drugs. It increases the value via scarcity and damages society by increased abuse of the public by power hungry people using/abusing often outdated or overreaching laws. Thereby criminalizing a good sized chunk of the public doing something that is non-violent, fun, and often harmless except to those with agendas. Demand never went down and actually has gone up as it's now forbidden fruit. The laws only drove the real child porn production underground, just like drugs. Child porn has only been illegal since 1976 and those laws were passed to prevent excessive child neglect via business profiteering due to the cost of creation not to go after individuals who view it/use it. When kids can create their porn and send it to their friends for nothing the law has been made completely irrelevant. And children do have rights of choice even if as adults we don't like to admit it. I haven't been seeing anything in the news in awhile about prosecutors going after kids, guess they realized pissing off their voter parents by severely abusing measures wasn't such a good idea. Never mind what those kids learned and with how they'll think and act when they grow up. I won't even comment on prosecutions of 18 year old boys/men screwing their 16 year old girlfriends.
Talk to your parents, the USA was doing just fine before these idiotic laws were passed. Besides we're all child molesters when were young. What do you think all that sexual shit we go through as children, teenagers, and twenty-somethings is about. Somehow I don't think decade old laws and hundred year old cultural views will ever override million year old hormonal and sexual drives.
Speaking of drugs I see cigarettes and alcohol is still legal given the expense of production as much of it's subsidized, and the huge body of evidence of addiction and abuse by producers and users. While a useful, free growing weed, marijuana(hemp) that is cheap to produce, available everywhere, and is not addictive, is illegal.
Somehow forbidding a private citizen from possessing anything, that's not actively hurting someone else, in a supposedly free country seems kind of wrong.
Since we're going after everyone else. Why are those private fusion/chemical/biologi
"...protection of the innocent..."
If you're born in this country, you're guilty. Next fucking case. -- pseudo George Carlin
Children abuse and kill each other, where's the innocent part?
"Doesn't Lucifer actually mean "bearer of photoluminescence"?"
So his avatar is a nuclear explosion.
Bright enough for you?
"It'll just be a 3.5 million dollar fine."
Then you might as well be dead anyway since in the USA "money is life". With that big a fine you'll never have any money again.
The saudi government did have a hand in 9/11. They protected and supported radical clerics who had taught the 9/11 hijackers for decades. The government knew what was going on and thought nothing of it or the end result regardless of the various incidents and warnings in their sphere of influence.
"Just putting it out there...if you're going to call it civil disobedience, then make sure that you're down with the road you're choosing to travel. Civil disobedience means that if they decide to sue you that you plead guilty to the crime, take the sentence they give you, and forego appeals. Civil disobedience means that you believe in your cause enough to take the punishment they dish out in order to make an example as to how harmful the rules are with the hope that your sacrifice will influence positive change."
"Civil disobedience" is just a nice term for ignoring the law in order to challenge it. Bad laws are meant to be broken.
"Using the principle famously exemplified by Gandhi and Rosa Parks is admirable, as long as you're willing to go to the lengths that they're willing to go in order to do it. If that's genuinely your goal, and you're okay with it, then I applaud you and support you. However, if you're going at this with even the slightest intent to settle out of court, plead 'not guilty', or appeal a verdict, then you're not following a cause, you're justifying copyright infringement."
Responsibility of challenging a law you deem bad doesn't mean just lying down and getting stomped on as a means to fight it. It also means fighting to win otherwise you're at the mercy of everyone else to do something instead of doing it yourself. We use the tools and methods at hand that work. If it means blowing off the feet of those trying to stomp you so be it.
"Personally, I'll settle for using Spotify."
Another one who hasn't learned from history or Ben Franklin about liberty and security.
"giant friggin pipe cutting across the country"
Right across a primary groundwater source that runs from North Dakota to Texas. And much of the ground water source in Nebraska is near the surface. Care to guess how much of our food and agri-resources, for ourselves and sold to other countries, is produced by irrigation? Do you want the odds of all those fields across 9 states being sprayed with oil and made unproductive before the oil company admits there was a leak (or rupture) in a buried pipeline that no one will know about until it's to late?
Let us just place this pipeline there maintained by an industry that's got a history ignoring maintenance for profits. The very reason they want it there in the first place, profits from exporting the nastiest, most expensive crude made to international markets instead of local ones. Is it worth risking starvation? Oil is transitory and not necessary to survive, food is necessary to survive. How many disasters does it take before big oil, hell any business, is deemed untrustworthy in their decision making when it comes to the public vs profit?
So let them just transport the nastiest, dirtiest, crude oil en mass across much of our most productive agricultural land and over our largest underground aquifer that also services many central US cities. The whole thing managed by irresponsible oil conglomerates and local politicians who just see the tax dollars for the first decade until the pipeline depreciates out(no more taxes) and physically fails due to lack of oil company maintenance(plenty of citations). Guess those temporary jobs and few years of taxes will be worth the cleanup, starvation, and other hell, right?
Citation: I live here and am responsible for some of the very food and resources you consume.
This is not a worse case scenario just one based on previous and current behavior of the various participants.
This also assumes the pipeline will be built properly and not cost cut in the first place or specs ignored, see gulf disaster.
PS I'm actually surprised other countries aren't screaming bloody murder as many of them get food from the US as well.
I haven't seen anyone question the method that made this man captain in charge of a massive vessel in the first place. It isn't a military ship but civilian ship run the way any business would run it. Profit high, costs low so it doesn't surprise me of incidents like this happening every so often as people are there for themselves/paycheck who move up the corporate ladder. They aren't battle hardened combat troops with patriotic ideals and responsibilities and time honored hard experience in the trenches but people trained to do a job but not truly tested. Real training and tests cost money and psychological tests for those in charge cost more money and might set a trend.(executives next) Remember they are there to make money, that includes the corporations above and everyone below them. So if you are going to bitch about the captain and command crew you better more than question the system that put them there. I also wonder about various audits(crew, safety, training, etc) or were the only real ones that mattered financial.
Like the captain responsible for the ship, corporations/owners are responsible for the captain. Of course, these are corporations potentially at fault, can't have that. The blame will stop here and nothing will be done and later disasters will happen and the scapegoating will continue.
"If it turns out that the captain ordered the ship illegally close to the island, be it as a favor to the chef or following an order to create a show for the passengers, then the wreckage is indeed his responsibility. We can't have people with authority to make decisions directly affecting the lives of thousands of people rescind responsibility whenever they fuck up. When power and responsibility don't coincide, bad things happen. At sea, a captain has full authority and full responsibility."
Look at world economic behavior since Reagan or better behavior since 2008 and say that again. Nobody is locking up corporate or government leaders for the fucking the public has suffered the last several years.(deaths included) This incident is nothing by comparison and the captain will probably be facing death for it. Let's hold the noise of hypocrisy down to jet engine levels please.
"his story and his excuses sound quite pathetic."
The guy crashed an ocean liner, any excuse/reason is going to be pathetic.
Remember the guy is just working a job like the rest of us and most likely for the same selfish reasons so cut him some slack.
The captain was right, it's dark with the ship in a dangerous position and him being possibly compromised(drunk, etc) it could be sending him to his death and could be viewed as the guard captain attempting to murder him. Being part of the incident, potentially compromised, in his condition he would have been a little help anyway. I doubt willingly getting killed is part of the job description regardless of what public perception says. Telling him to go back was just plain irresponsible and stupid.