I mean it's got to be his fault, right? Due to their walled garden approach to their ECU software? And let's face it, I can get a Yugo for thousands of dollars less. Toyotas are just flashy and shiny objects to those who aren't smart enough to run and Yugo and those who are more concerned about being cool.
So yes, they do contribute to open source, but that contribution is disqualified because you don't think they do it with enough selflessness? How full of shit are you?
As for the harm they do to open source and Linux (there is no such thing as "programming freedom" so I disregard your canard), I'm not quite sure what harm they are doing. Maybe you can give some examples instead of baseless innuendo. I'm hoping your citations will be a bit more fact based than your last disingenuous post.
There's no requirement with Apple to use iAd either. All the things you mentioned (with the possible exception of porn ads) is possible on the Apple platform too.
I'm sorry if it offends you, but he has a valid point. The BS he's replying to simply isn't credible and he's correct to point out that the claim is vague and vaporous. No one in their right mind would take it seriously since it offers no source, no name of the supposed security company, etc.
Slashdot stories != news either, so I guess you're wrong.
You proved nothing wrong. The discussion was never limited to Slashdot. You proved a strawman, but nothing about what I said. My point is disputing the statement that opinion on Apple is overwhelmingly negative. There is a small, highly vocal crowd of Apple haters, of which Slashdot has a large percentage. But despite those rabid haters, overall opinion of Apple is still far more positive than negative.
The entire interface was revolutionary at the time. Reporters and attendees in the audience in January 2007 reportedly gasped as he demonstrated how the phone worked. There, I've named one. Are you honestly trying to say that it changed the cell phone market by NOT introducing revolutionary features? So it was the same as all other phones, but it somehow magically changed the cell phone market anyway? Maybe Jobs was right then and it is a magical device.
As for Steve Jobs thoughts on Flash, not once in the quote you pasted did he say the iPad did not have enough CPU to run Flash. Go back and read it, I'll wait. Show me where is says iPad anywhere in that quote.
Please read your own evidence before pulling bullshit out of your ass. It seems you're the only one lying in this discussion. Maybe you should fix that problem before jumping all over Apple for fictitious lies they've never said?
It's also amusing how you tried to degrade someone else's argument by putting up a fake criteria that they must meet before they can express their opinion. . . Physician heal thyself.
I guess this is the area that confuses me. Essentially it's the same sort of thing. Phone does something undesirable when user does Action A. Solution: Do not do Action A OR put a case on it. No no one is losing their mind over this situation, but for some reason when Apple does it then it's a sign of the apocalypse and Apple fanboys are in denial, etc. I just wonder why the same standard is not applied to Android phone flaws?
So it's just those statements that got you upset. Did you expect real magic maybe?
Sorry, but if the Apple haters aren't seizing on "walled garden" arguments then they are whining about something silly like CEO marketing presentations. Tell me, do you obsess about any other CEO's marketing, or just Jobs? Your implication that Jobs did something wrong when all he was doing was his JOB (hyping their next new product, duh!) is ridiculous. Just come out and say you hate Apple and be honest about it. That makes more sense than the fake explanation you just gave.
Maybe you could give them a minute to see if they can address it via the software fix they mentioned last week and then see what the results are? I personally don't buy their explanation last week, that could be coded and fixed inside of a day. But since they are talking a couple of weeks I think they are actually tweaking then antenna algorithms to improve the performance. Can the people frothing at the mouth wait to see if they take care of it before concluding they have failed?
The iPhone did and DOES have revolutionary features. The iPhone redefined the mobile market in '07 and if you can't see that then you have your head stuck in the sand.
The iPhone is a magical device? Well like a previous reply to you said, do you REALLY think they are talking about Harry Potter type magic? Or to paraphrase. . . are you an idiot, crazy, or both?
And they have NEVER said the iPad does not have enough CPU to run Flash. Not once has Apple said that. So you either are woefully misinformed or YOU are lying.
You need to chill out and quit frothing at the mouth.
"What is the reason people get so territorial whenever Apple is brought up?"
- Well, I'm tempted to ask why you're getting territorial about it, but instead I'll answer your question. I think the main reason Apple fans are so vocal (I'm basing this on my experience. YMMV) is because they have found a product that they LOVE. Most of them have used Windows (to use an older example) and when they started using a Mac they found that they enjoyed the experience so much more. If you're looking for a point by point advantage list it is hard to quantify, and I guess that's what frustrates people who have never used a Mac. They usually don't "get it" so they rip on Apple and its users. They spread inaccurate info (Macs are not compatible with Windows files), etc. and those innacuracies (and sometimes lies) frustrate Apple users to the point they speak up. LOUDLY! I think most of the time Apple users have been fighting an uphill battle to combat some ignorance about the platform, and one heck of a lot of lies. They stick up for the product they love. And let's think about this, how often do you purchase a product that you love, you enjoy SO much, that you tell everyone about it? That is what breeds this enthusiastic defense against innacuracies and disinformation.
"it's a huge weakness imposed by Apple to keep people who like OS X buying their hardware."
- That's certainly one way to look at it, if you tend to fall on the "glass is half empty" side of the Apple discussion. It's also a huge strength. Apple has such a tight, well integrated user experience exactly BECAUSE they don't let every commodity box maker crank out a cheap ass unit. So what you call a weakness I call an advantage. And why exactly would Apple not want people to buy their hardware? They ARE a hardware company! That's like saying Baskin Robins should not sell ice cream?!
Yes, I can say it is a marvelous piece of engineering. I don't have to compare it to anything. By your standards I would have to own and compare it to all other devices because to leave any out tends to violate the scam criteria you're trying to force on me. Sorry but your argument is full of shit.
Finder is a piece of shit. - Funny, I don't have any problems with it.
The dock is a piece of shit. - Again, not a problem.
Window management (zoom, minimize) is a piece of shit. - Maybe you just don't understand how it works. It works differently than Windows and Linux, but once you understand it, it's not a problem.
iTunes is an over engineered piece of shit. - What is your complaint exactly? Would you prefer it to be under engineered? I honestly don't know what the beef about iTunes is (unless you're running it on Windows, which isn't our discussion) because I have zero problems with it.
Dumbing down and oversimplifying the interface all over the place is a fucking piece of shit. - How exactly is it dumbed down and oversimplified? I think this is just another BS argument that people roll out so I'd be interested in hearing some specific examples of how it is over simplified. I guess I'm also confused how you bitch that iTunes is over-engineered and then complain that the OS X interface is over-simplified? Those seem to be somewhat at odds with each other.
Fuck OS X. I hate it and because of it I will never buy another Mac again. - Then don't, but I still haven't seen any reasoning behind your complaints. You sound more like someone who just blindly hates Apple and thus repeats these tired old lines.
1. Built better is ambiguous wording, but I compared it to all other phones I had used before and I thought it was much better made in terms of both hardware and software.
2. The OS X UI is no more inflexible than any other UI. And you DID say the OS was inflexible. Go back and re-read your post.
"As for the iPhone, i personally find it to be an overpriced, locked-down & limited gadget, pretty & shiney though"
- Overpriced as compared to what? An Android phone. . . . costing essentially the same amount of money? Pretty and shiney? You mean like all the copycat Android phones that look almost EXACTLY like the iPhone? Seems your hypocrisy knows no bounds!
While there do appear to be a few issues (antenna and proximity sensor) it's still a bit early to say they can't be addressed with a software update. Why don't we give them a little bit of time to work on it and test it extensively and then see how it goes?
As for a recall, I don't see this rising to that level. Most people are not having issues, but some are. We can wait for a software update, or return the phone, but a recall is a bit over the top. Most recalls only happen when consumer safety is at risk, and since iPhone purhcasers can return it for a full refund if they want then I don't see what benefit there would be to a recall.
Except it's not pretty much all bad news directed at Apple. The mix of news directed at Apple seems to break down into 3 main groups:
1. Enthusiastic owners of Apple products 2. Fairly enthusiastic reviews of Apple products by a vast majority of news outlets/reviewers. Each review has a couple of negative points to mention, but overall the reviews are very positive. 3. A small, but highly vocal cadre of blind Apple haters who froth at the mouth at anything Apple does or releases, citing psuedo-intellectual phrases like "walled garden".
In reality the news is far more positive, but you just choose to believe the negative because you fall more towards category #3. To say that it's pretty much all bad news is blatantly false.
"keep in mind that your opinion "iphone is a marvelous piece of engineering" means jack shit if you haven't tried similar devices from other manufacturers in the same timeframe."
- Keep in mind that your made up criteria for evaluating the iPhone is just that, made up. You don't have to try another phone to come to the determination that the iPhone is a marvelous piece of engineering. If you love it, it works great, you're completely satisfied with your purchase, then it's perfectly logical to come to that opinion. Your bullshit attempt to invalidate his opinion doesn't hold water.
Slashdot Mirror
I mean it's got to be his fault, right? Due to their walled garden approach to their ECU software? And let's face it, I can get a Yugo for thousands of dollars less. Toyotas are just flashy and shiny objects to those who aren't smart enough to run and Yugo and those who are more concerned about being cool.
Rate it flamebait if you want, but I don't see anyone disputing the accuracy of it.
Perhaps you could stop imitating every other dimwitted person who uses the term "fanboy" to describe something you don't understand?
Congrats, the iPhone does all those things too.
So yes, they do contribute to open source, but that contribution is disqualified because you don't think they do it with enough selflessness? How full of shit are you?
As for the harm they do to open source and Linux (there is no such thing as "programming freedom" so I disregard your canard), I'm not quite sure what harm they are doing. Maybe you can give some examples instead of baseless innuendo. I'm hoping your citations will be a bit more fact based than your last disingenuous post.
There's no requirement with Apple to use iAd either. All the things you mentioned (with the possible exception of porn ads) is possible on the Apple platform too.
I'm sorry if it offends you, but he has a valid point. The BS he's replying to simply isn't credible and he's correct to point out that the claim is vague and vaporous. No one in their right mind would take it seriously since it offers no source, no name of the supposed security company, etc.
Slashdot stories != news either, so I guess you're wrong.
You proved nothing wrong. The discussion was never limited to Slashdot. You proved a strawman, but nothing about what I said. My point is disputing the statement that opinion on Apple is overwhelmingly negative. There is a small, highly vocal crowd of Apple haters, of which Slashdot has a large percentage. But despite those rabid haters, overall opinion of Apple is still far more positive than negative.
The entire interface was revolutionary at the time. Reporters and attendees in the audience in January 2007 reportedly gasped as he demonstrated how the phone worked. There, I've named one. Are you honestly trying to say that it changed the cell phone market by NOT introducing revolutionary features? So it was the same as all other phones, but it somehow magically changed the cell phone market anyway? Maybe Jobs was right then and it is a magical device.
As for Steve Jobs thoughts on Flash, not once in the quote you pasted did he say the iPad did not have enough CPU to run Flash. Go back and read it, I'll wait. Show me where is says iPad anywhere in that quote.
Please read your own evidence before pulling bullshit out of your ass. It seems you're the only one lying in this discussion. Maybe you should fix that problem before jumping all over Apple for fictitious lies they've never said?
It's also amusing how you tried to degrade someone else's argument by putting up a fake criteria that they must meet before they can express their opinion. . . Physician heal thyself.
The headliner story may say one thing, but the split of comments inside the story is about even. So yes, it is 50/50.
I'd say within Slashdot the news is about 50/50. Outside of Slashdot the reviews are probably 70/30 in favor of Apple.
I guess this is the area that confuses me. Essentially it's the same sort of thing. Phone does something undesirable when user does Action A. Solution: Do not do Action A OR put a case on it. No no one is losing their mind over this situation, but for some reason when Apple does it then it's a sign of the apocalypse and Apple fanboys are in denial, etc. I just wonder why the same standard is not applied to Android phone flaws?
So it's just those statements that got you upset. Did you expect real magic maybe? Sorry, but if the Apple haters aren't seizing on "walled garden" arguments then they are whining about something silly like CEO marketing presentations. Tell me, do you obsess about any other CEO's marketing, or just Jobs? Your implication that Jobs did something wrong when all he was doing was his JOB (hyping their next new product, duh!) is ridiculous. Just come out and say you hate Apple and be honest about it. That makes more sense than the fake explanation you just gave.
"grats you got 1 out of a very low percentage of working units"
- I think you may have it backwards. I think the affected units is probably in the minority based on the reports I've read.
Maybe you could give them a minute to see if they can address it via the software fix they mentioned last week and then see what the results are? I personally don't buy their explanation last week, that could be coded and fixed inside of a day. But since they are talking a couple of weeks I think they are actually tweaking then antenna algorithms to improve the performance. Can the people frothing at the mouth wait to see if they take care of it before concluding they have failed?
The iPhone did and DOES have revolutionary features. The iPhone redefined the mobile market in '07 and if you can't see that then you have your head stuck in the sand.
The iPhone is a magical device? Well like a previous reply to you said, do you REALLY think they are talking about Harry Potter type magic? Or to paraphrase. . . are you an idiot, crazy, or both?
And they have NEVER said the iPad does not have enough CPU to run Flash. Not once has Apple said that. So you either are woefully misinformed or YOU are lying.
You need to chill out and quit frothing at the mouth.
"What is the reason people get so territorial whenever Apple is brought up?"
- Well, I'm tempted to ask why you're getting territorial about it, but instead I'll answer your question. I think the main reason Apple fans are so vocal (I'm basing this on my experience. YMMV) is because they have found a product that they LOVE. Most of them have used Windows (to use an older example) and when they started using a Mac they found that they enjoyed the experience so much more. If you're looking for a point by point advantage list it is hard to quantify, and I guess that's what frustrates people who have never used a Mac. They usually don't "get it" so they rip on Apple and its users. They spread inaccurate info (Macs are not compatible with Windows files), etc. and those innacuracies (and sometimes lies) frustrate Apple users to the point they speak up. LOUDLY! I think most of the time Apple users have been fighting an uphill battle to combat some ignorance about the platform, and one heck of a lot of lies. They stick up for the product they love. And let's think about this, how often do you purchase a product that you love, you enjoy SO much, that you tell everyone about it? That is what breeds this enthusiastic defense against innacuracies and disinformation.
"it's a huge weakness imposed by Apple to keep people who like OS X buying their hardware."
- That's certainly one way to look at it, if you tend to fall on the "glass is half empty" side of the Apple discussion. It's also a huge strength. Apple has such a tight, well integrated user experience exactly BECAUSE they don't let every commodity box maker crank out a cheap ass unit. So what you call a weakness I call an advantage. And why exactly would Apple not want people to buy their hardware? They ARE a hardware company! That's like saying Baskin Robins should not sell ice cream?!
Yes, I can say it is a marvelous piece of engineering. I don't have to compare it to anything. By your standards I would have to own and compare it to all other devices because to leave any out tends to violate the scam criteria you're trying to force on me. Sorry but your argument is full of shit.
Finder is a piece of shit.
- Funny, I don't have any problems with it.
The dock is a piece of shit.
- Again, not a problem.
Window management (zoom, minimize) is a piece of shit.
- Maybe you just don't understand how it works. It works differently than Windows and Linux, but once you understand it, it's not a problem.
iTunes is an over engineered piece of shit.
- What is your complaint exactly? Would you prefer it to be under engineered? I honestly don't know what the beef about iTunes is (unless you're running it on Windows, which isn't our discussion) because I have zero problems with it.
Dumbing down and oversimplifying the interface all over the place is a fucking piece of shit.
- How exactly is it dumbed down and oversimplified? I think this is just another BS argument that people roll out so I'd be interested in hearing some specific examples of how it is over simplified. I guess I'm also confused how you bitch that iTunes is over-engineered and then complain that the OS X interface is over-simplified? Those seem to be somewhat at odds with each other.
Fuck OS X. I hate it and because of it I will never buy another Mac again.
- Then don't, but I still haven't seen any reasoning behind your complaints. You sound more like someone who just blindly hates Apple and thus repeats these tired old lines.
1. Built better is ambiguous wording, but I compared it to all other phones I had used before and I thought it was much better made in terms of both hardware and software.
2. The OS X UI is no more inflexible than any other UI. And you DID say the OS was inflexible. Go back and re-read your post.
"As for the iPhone, i personally find it to be an overpriced, locked-down & limited gadget, pretty & shiney though"
- Overpriced as compared to what? An Android phone. . . . costing essentially the same amount of money? Pretty and shiney? You mean like all the copycat Android phones that look almost EXACTLY like the iPhone? Seems your hypocrisy knows no bounds!
While there do appear to be a few issues (antenna and proximity sensor) it's still a bit early to say they can't be addressed with a software update. Why don't we give them a little bit of time to work on it and test it extensively and then see how it goes?
As for a recall, I don't see this rising to that level. Most people are not having issues, but some are. We can wait for a software update, or return the phone, but a recall is a bit over the top. Most recalls only happen when consumer safety is at risk, and since iPhone purhcasers can return it for a full refund if they want then I don't see what benefit there would be to a recall.
Except it's not pretty much all bad news directed at Apple. The mix of news directed at Apple seems to break down into 3 main groups:
1. Enthusiastic owners of Apple products
2. Fairly enthusiastic reviews of Apple products by a vast majority of news outlets/reviewers. Each review has a couple of negative points to mention, but overall the reviews are very positive.
3. A small, but highly vocal cadre of blind Apple haters who froth at the mouth at anything Apple does or releases, citing psuedo-intellectual phrases like "walled garden".
In reality the news is far more positive, but you just choose to believe the negative because you fall more towards category #3. To say that it's pretty much all bad news is blatantly false.
"keep in mind that your opinion "iphone is a marvelous piece of engineering" means jack shit if you haven't tried similar devices from other manufacturers in the same timeframe."
- Keep in mind that your made up criteria for evaluating the iPhone is just that, made up. You don't have to try another phone to come to the determination that the iPhone is a marvelous piece of engineering. If you love it, it works great, you're completely satisfied with your purchase, then it's perfectly logical to come to that opinion. Your bullshit attempt to invalidate his opinion doesn't hold water.