No. Any analogy that involves physically removing an instance of some physical thing from the owner into your own possession is not an acceptable analogy.
Copyright Infringement is not the same as joy-riding, and is not remotely treated the same under law. The difference b/w autotheft and joyriding is mostly a question of getting caught while you're in the vehicle, and how the police/judges feel when you explain yourself. Copyright infringement is not a criminal matter.
If we have to keep resorting to "real-world" examples, it's more like making photo-copies of a book, something probably all of us have done at the library while in school.
Any real-world example needs to adhere to the following truths about file-sharing:
- No usage/diminuation of the original.
- The "owner" is never deprived of the original.
- No direct loss to anyone....begin debate about 'direct'...
I think that this is all so confusing b/c
-this is an abstract idea - there is no physical good involved, which is difficult for many people to grasp (math is hard!)
-the rights-holders are (typically by definition) good marketers and have used their own version of FUD to confuse
-the rights holders have used words in the media that aren't legally true but have been repeated until it has become true...(as was pointed out higher in the chain)
Sadly they're not total morons... perhaps idiot savants.
Music (art in general) is a human thing that exists without the riaa, without a compensation model, and has existed for all of the history of mankind, and will exist to the end of the human race.
There is no other monopoly ('cept maybe food...maybe!) other than music that is guaranteed by humanity.
The telephone company (the original modern monopoly?) is not even guaranteed an income - but those that can monetize music are guaranteed an income. If you haven't read Eben Moglen's thoughts on all this look him up... For me he answered the big compensation question.
Sadly it's not the riaa that's stupid - it's us for buying their particular music.
I agree with many others on/. - the answer is to STOP SUPPORTING THE RIAA and purchase/support independent artists.
It won't happen over nite, but when they no longer control the market, the big artists will no longer be signed with them...
...'course $10k may not be far off from what the riaa would have paid them for the album -
let's not forget that they only get in the order of a buck from each album sold.
i think that even people who may not like them should pay-pal a coupl'a bucks, or as the other poster, host the torrent to help distribution. If we don't show an interest in returning art to the commons, then those with the money will keep it from us.
Music and the other arts belong to all of humanity.
IANAL, but unless you can show some kind of negligence, a lawsuit probably won't get far anyways...
Even in the case of physical goods (like the defective nano screens from TFA) the mfg typically only has to fix/replace the product to avoid being sued... there's no damages awarded.
Since m$ has a patch-cycle, they are in fact addressing deficiencies in their software as they are uncovered. (you can debate the speed, but not the fact)
Car companies don't often get sued for defects anymore, since they offer to fix them wholesale...
imho, as long as software vendors are 'fixing' the product they are abiding by the same set of rules as mfg's of physical goods...
I agree whole-heartedly.
There are two kinds of 'successful' people:
Those who look at societies deficiencies and use(abuse?) them for their own purpose/gain.
Those who look at societies deficiencies and overthrow the current masters in order to replace them.
If the status quo is going to change, you either need to pick up your pitch-fork and march on the capitol, or else you need to convince the current king that there's a problem.
These days, fighting that fight is a PR war -- and if it's beneath you to fight on today's terms, then I can't see you winning...
...so when the study says "downloaders == shoplifters", the study is flawed, but when it says that "downloaders == more-music-buyers" they know thier(sic) trade pretty well?
not being an american, it is one of the things i have found most perplexing about your legal system...
shouldn't a law for Penguin Control at least be in a bill that is somehow related to penguins??
so as a linux "noooooooobe" (is that still whatcha call us?) i gotta add my nickle and maybe a dime...
Why is MS so predominant? certainly not 'cause it's good software. it ain't.
cause it's good MARKETING. (and i don't abuse caps too often...)
know why linux isn't main-stream?
'cause the current main stream is too busy being too intelligent for the masses...
don't want the masses?
you suck. cause the masses is the main stream, and the fringe never worried MS.
I'd consider myself more than an average geek. To me, that makes me significantly more techie than most Best Buy shoppers. ...still - linux has been a challenge to me. windoze never was a challenge.
kids in non-America don't want Pepsi because of it's nutritional content - they respond to the slick marketing...
get it?
like the meteoric "rise" of one of the best closed standards ever: Apple computers? Nope, nuthin' to learn here... question is - are they going to repeat this 5% success with their newest closed iStandard?
really?
How is "I want messages sent to XYZ that are unread" any less relational than "I want cars at dealer XYZ that are unsold" ?
It seems to me that e-mail is a collection of related data - perfect candidate for a relational database.
i've recently started making a serious effort to switch... i think long-term linux will be a better option.
it *is* significantly more complicated to work in linux than in windoze.
more options == more complicated.
I'd be curious how many ms'ers have looked at linux and found it too freakin' much trouble.
just 'cause/. is full of people who are not only willing to make the effort, but have also contributed to linux does not make it the norm....
having had a similar experience in fedora recently i'm very sympathitic to their problems. until linux truly becomes point-n-click it's not going to make inroads with joe-public.
i'd suggest that at this time the bulk of linux installs remain a relatively hard-core geek thing. in case you haven't noticed, the average joe thinks a "start" button is too complicated...forget a bizarre command line of non-english words..grep? grok? is catman related to catwoman?
i know i'm not the first one to notice that lots of linux dev's spend more time proving they are clever than they spend being helpful...
i figure it's a $35+ nite to see a movie in a theatre. ...guess I just don't care that much to see any movie.
hollywood's not making much worth watching, and they certainly aren't making anything worth forty bucks.
if they can't make better movies, perhaps they need to drop the prices so people go more often.
The article talks about piracy as a business -- this tells me that people are willing to pay _something_ to see the movie... just not what hollywood wants to charge.
imho they're way past the hump of the profit curve and way into diminished sales...
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Copyright Infringement is not the same as joy-riding, and is not remotely treated the same under law. The difference b/w autotheft and joyriding is mostly a question of getting caught while you're in the vehicle, and how the police/judges feel when you explain yourself.
Copyright infringement is not a criminal matter.
If we have to keep resorting to "real-world" examples, it's more like making photo-copies of a book, something probably all of us have done at the library while in school.
Any real-world example needs to adhere to the following truths about file-sharing: ...begin debate about 'direct'...
- No usage/diminuation of the original.
- The "owner" is never deprived of the original.
- No direct loss to anyone.
I think that this is all so confusing b/c
-this is an abstract idea - there is no physical good involved, which is difficult for many people to grasp (math is hard!)
-the rights-holders are (typically by definition) good marketers and have used their own version of FUD to confuse
-the rights holders have used words in the media that aren't legally true but have been repeated until it has become true...(as was pointed out higher in the chain)
Sadly they're not total morons ... perhaps idiot savants. /. - the answer is to STOP SUPPORTING THE RIAA and purchase/support independent artists.
Music (art in general) is a human thing that exists without the riaa, without a compensation model, and has existed for all of the history of mankind, and will exist to the end of the human race.
There is no other monopoly ('cept maybe food...maybe!) other than music that is guaranteed by humanity.
The telephone company (the original modern monopoly?) is not even guaranteed an income - but those that can monetize music are guaranteed an income. If you haven't read Eben Moglen's thoughts on all this look him up... For me he answered the big compensation question.
Sadly it's not the riaa that's stupid - it's us for buying their particular music.
I agree with many others on
It won't happen over nite, but when they no longer control the market, the big artists will no longer be signed with them...
i guess if there's one thing i havn't learned it's that one must check all math copied from any post on /.
i think that even people who may not like them should pay-pal a coupl'a bucks, or as the other poster, host the torrent to help distribution. If we don't show an interest in returning art to the commons, then those with the money will keep it from us.
Music and the other arts belong to all of humanity.
IANAL, but unless you can show some kind of negligence, a lawsuit probably won't get far anyways... ... there's no damages awarded. ...
Even in the case of physical goods (like the defective nano screens from TFA) the mfg typically only has to fix/replace the product to avoid being sued
Since m$ has a patch-cycle, they are in fact addressing deficiencies in their software as they are uncovered. (you can debate the speed, but not the fact)
Car companies don't often get sued for defects anymore, since they offer to fix them wholesale...
imho, as long as software vendors are 'fixing' the product they are abiding by the same set of rules as mfg's of physical goods
I agree whole-heartedly.
There are two kinds of 'successful' people:
Those who look at societies deficiencies and use(abuse?) them for their own purpose/gain.
Those who look at societies deficiencies and overthrow the current masters in order to replace them.
If the status quo is going to change, you either need to pick up your pitch-fork and march on the capitol, or else you need to convince the current king that there's a problem.
These days, fighting that fight is a PR war -- and if it's beneath you to fight on today's terms, then I can't see you winning...
...so when the study says "downloaders == shoplifters", the study is flawed, but when it says that "downloaders == more-music-buyers" they know thier(sic) trade pretty well?
not being an american, it is one of the things i have found most perplexing about your legal system ...
shouldn't a law for Penguin Control at least be in a bill that is somehow related to penguins??
didn't billy always "borrow" steve's ideas?
so as a linux "noooooooobe" (is that still whatcha call us?) i gotta add my nickle and maybe a dime...
...still - linux has been a challenge to me. windoze never was a challenge.
Why is MS so predominant? certainly not 'cause it's good software.
it ain't.
cause it's good MARKETING. (and i don't abuse caps too often...)
know why linux isn't main-stream?
'cause the current main stream is too busy being too intelligent for the masses...
don't want the masses?
you suck. cause the masses is the main stream, and the fringe never worried MS.
I'd consider myself more than an average geek. To me, that makes me significantly more techie than most Best Buy shoppers.
kids in non-America don't want Pepsi because of it's nutritional content - they respond to the slick marketing...
get it?
like the meteoric "rise" of one of the best closed standards ever: Apple computers?
Nope, nuthin' to learn here...
question is - are they going to repeat this 5% success with their newest closed iStandard?
really?
How is "I want messages sent to XYZ that are unread" any less relational than "I want cars at dealer XYZ that are unsold" ?
It seems to me that e-mail is a collection of related data - perfect candidate for a relational database.
just curious...
Can't we just send them to Australia?
It worked for the Brits...
it's a good thing the school's admins gave themselves authorization to publish the passwords on the back of each laptop...or are charges pending?
i've recently started making a serious effort to switch ... i think long-term linux will be a better option.
it *is* significantly more complicated to work in linux than in windoze. /. is full of people who are not only willing to make the effort, but have also contributed to linux does not make it the norm....
more options == more complicated.
I'd be curious how many ms'ers have looked at linux and found it too freakin' much trouble.
just 'cause
having had a similar experience in fedora recently i'm very sympathitic to their problems.
until linux truly becomes point-n-click it's not going to make inroads with joe-public.
i'd suggest that at this time the bulk of linux installs remain a relatively hard-core geek thing. ..grep? grok? is catman related to catwoman?
in case you haven't noticed, the average joe thinks a "start" button is too complicated...forget a bizarre command line of non-english words
i know i'm not the first one to notice that lots of linux dev's spend more time proving they are clever than they spend being helpful...
hollywood's not making much worth watching, and they certainly aren't making anything worth forty bucks.
if they can't make better movies, perhaps they need to drop the prices so people go more often.
The article talks about piracy as a business -- this tells me that people are willing to pay _something_ to see the movie ... just not what hollywood wants to charge.
imho they're way past the hump of the profit curve and way into diminished sales...