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P2P Users More Likely to Cheat, Shoplift
prostoalex writes "New research report (sponsored by the recording industry, so should definitely be objective) suggests that those who download music online are also likely to cheat at schools/universities and to shoplift. From the Globe and Mail: 'Not only does music file-swapping harm artists, but it also points to an erosion of respect for intellectual property that threatens Canada's economy and values at the core of our society,' said Graham Henderson, president of the Canadian Recording Industry Association, which commissioned the polls."
This "study" referenced in the TFA is so poisonously misleading I barely know where to begin.
From TFA:Regarding the first two statistics, perhaps that because (a) they're the ones to use the software programs the most, and (b), they're the ones in school. Regarding the last point, the actual figures were 6%, as opposed to 2% of the general population. With a poll base of only 2,043 individuals, and an error range of 3.1 percentage points plus or minus, one can seriously question the validity of this last statistic. Add this to the fact that teens have been shoplifting since the invention of the 'shop', and this statistic quickly becomes meaningless.
What's especially nauseating about this "study" is that it attempts to establish a causual connection between increased P2P file sharing and these other, 'antisocial' activities:
Again from TFA:Repeat after me: Correlation does not imply causation.
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
And thus the prophesy was fulfilled:
"And there will be much gnashing of eTeeth as the nerds of the Slashdot ripethed the recording industry 'a new one'"
So let it be.
A community-oriented lyrics site
this is insanely stupid
who the hell would shoplift when you can just download anything you really need?
teenagers are more likely to cheat, use p2p and shoplift
Please sign petition to restore sanity to our banking system!!!
http://financialpetition.org/
Maybe those types of people that are more likely to cheat, etc are drawn to P2P. Classic example of correlation vs causality.
Perhaps the report should state that people who use P2P for illegal purposes are more likely to commit other crimes. Which is completely logical: if you're willing to commit one type of crime, you're probably more likely to commit others.
I make occaisional use of P2P, but I don't do illegal things with it.
A more in depth study also indicated that P2P users are also "big doody heads" and that the recording industry's dad could kick the P2P users dad's in a fight
...and that's all there is to it.
If file swappers are so profficient at all this theft and cheating, music execs must be pretty worried about their job-security.
SHOCKING, it was funded by the RIAA. What is next, blaming P2P users for causing terrorism...
In other news, Microsoft said today that: "Anbody who doesn't buy Microsoft Office is more likely to commit arson or criminal damage".. I mean seriously.. The Canadian record industry telling us that making infringing copies of their music is bad for society is ... well.. not exactly news now is it?
Simon.
Users who don't download music from p2p are more likely not to have internet..
Why wouldn't they just walk into a record shop and steal the CD?
Oh yeah, this article is BS..
Well, this isn't really surprising, really. Obviously goody-two-shoes who wouldn't even download unlicensed music are not going to be shop lifting. But I think there is a large percentage of people who would download music and would not cheat at school or steal physical things.
The (paid for by the music industry) study is being totally disingenuous by claming that downloading music causes other criminal behavior, when really it's just a coincidence
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Canadians between 12 and 24 years of age are responsible for 78 per cent of illegal music downloading, even though they make up only 21 per cent of the population, it says.
I'm sure this is supposed to say "are responsible for 78 per cent of illegal music downloading in Canada". I can't imagine that Canadians are responsible for the majority of illegal music downloading.
Bradley Holt
This has been a test. Had this been a real emergency, we would have fled in terror and you would not have been informed.
Can we get a study done on how likely RIAA Executives are to hurt small animals, steal from donation pots, and scowl at old ladies?
wow.. i would almost say that, that same age group, without file sharing software would be more likely to do the exact same things compared to older generations..
Extra extra! Read all about it! Children likely to have less rigid morality than adults! Children may or may not understand concept of intellectual property! Extra, Extra!
Recording industry executives found to be more likely to spew bull shit, and to commission reports on supporting their bull shit.
'Not only do recording industry executives harm artists, but it also points to an erosion of respect for people that threatens Canada's economy and values at the core of our society,' said Jim Henson, president of the Canadian Intellectual Artist Association, which commissioned the polls."
"If anyone needs me, I'm in the angry dome."
http://www.michaelgeist.ca/index.php has some good comments on the two recent studies from the CRIA, plus some interesting comments on how various groups have been viewing them.
New Study Indicates Strong Correlation Among Men Between CD/DVD Purchases and Amount of Sex
would someone point to information that proves or at least more than strongly indicates that P2P file sharing has harmed artists? Yeah, I heard Metallica, but I still haven't seen evidence that musicians are poor because of file sharing, or that they have actually lost money. Does anyone know of studies that actually and truthfully show that this is the case?
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
Young people are more likely to use P2P than older people. Young people are more likely to be students/pupils than old people. Students are more likely to cheat in school than non-students. Correlations proves causation. News at 12.
Fleur de Sel
...for the first time in my life I feel inspired to go and steal a car. Thanks RIAA
...that masturbating to much causes blindness.
When did you stop beating your wife?
bullplop! BULLPLOP!
--Homer
You either respect the rules, or you don't.
Despite all the scathing comments about intellectual property about to be posted on this thread, we have a system in which works of art have the protection of copyright law. If you are willing to break one law, it is not difficult to imagine that you might be willing to break another.
Is losing its touch in its old age. Darn whipper-snapper kids!
I'm forced to remember one of my favorite quotes...
"Blaming guns for Columbine is like blaming Rosie O'Donnell for being fat."
This garbage of blaming antisocial behavior on P2P is no better.
P2P is a gateway dru... crime. A crime of passion. One starts by downloading illegally, then on to harder stuff.
From the article:
"Canadians illegally download 14 music CDs or other files from the Internet for every file they take from the web legally, a new recording-industry poll suggests."
Pretty sure just by viewing the article I downloaded 15 files or so from the web legally (ads, banners, the text, spacers, etc.) so I'd better get cracking to download 210 CD's before I can look at another web page...
The CRIA is a poorly funded wannabe RIAA that complains about everything. They already have enough supporting laws and programs on the books. And now that there is enough focus on these issues, they are not going to get anymore.
Canadians are taxed on all blank CDR media to offset the loss of piracy, and since the Canadian content laws under our version of the FCC are the only thing that keeps a lot of crappy Canadian content on the air, and since most of it is funded with our tax dollars, the CRIA can kiss my cold Canadian A*S!
Many Canadian content providers and distributers shield themselves from real competition thru backwards isolationalist-style trade-restriction-like programs and law.
Government funding allows tax dollars to be sophened to companies that produce content that usually SUCKS - as along as it meets the "Canadian content" requirements by mentioning curling or the Toronto Maple Leafs.
At the same time, broadcasters are limited in what they can show because they have to be inline with another set of rules that dictates a percentage limit on the amount of non-Canadian content they can broadcast.
So we have cable providers that suck, a lot of content that sucks, and it is all subsidized by our own tax dollars.
All that being said, aside from not being able to get American TV legally, and having the same climate as upstate New York (in Toronto at least), it is still the best place to live in the North America - IMHO.
With all of this Canada self-bashing, I should point out a couple of examples of Canadian content at its finest. Here are two artists that are proud to be Canadian, and are world class for sure - highly worth checking out:
1) Esthero - a voice and songwriter like no other
2) K-os - hip-hop with real instruments, who's quality is unmatched
fud fud fud, I reckon that being a *AA employee is more morally corrupting than downloading some songs.
Shoplifting is completely different, it cannot be done out of the safety of your home.
They probably kill puppies too...
Just last week I was surfing the coder-for-hire sites, and, in addition to the ridiculous, asinine demands people were making [$100,000 projects for opening bids of $100 - the sort of thing that would starve an already emaciated Bangalorean peasant], I was just appalled at the number of spoiled, self-obsessed, ingrate college students who were advertising for coders to write their CompSci and Engineering projects for them.
What the hell ever happened to academic integrity?
How do I start my own polling firm where I get paid to tell clients what they want to hear? Seems like a sweet gig.
Entrepreneur : (noun), French for "unemployed"
<?php
echo "Ba".str_repeat("ha", time())."!\n";
?>
When I worked for an online company providing VoIP service, we became aware of "carding", or swapping / generating credit card numbers for the sake of obtaining merchandise for "free".
I visited some on-line forums and was rather shocked by what I read. First of all, it seemed like none of the people who participated in this activity thought that it was wrong. In fact, many of them justified the action by referring to the victims as "suckers" (meaning, it's acceptable to screw people who are "stupid" enough to fall for it).
The language and "HOWTOs" on the forum were very reminiscent of the old warez sites that I used to frequent. This was just another form of being "comptuer cool", it seemed.
So if users who use P2P (which are largely users who would trade warez) often overlap with people who are into "carding" (which always harms someone else), then why wouldn't they also be into cheating and stealing in more conventional ways? It doesn't stand to reason that a person would have a moral problem lifting something from a brick-and-mortar store yet have no compunction with generating someone's credit card number (and CVV2 number!) and then charging $2,000 of computer gear to it.
It is incumbent upon us to differentiate the type of "theft" where no property is taken to theft (where property IS taken). And, yes, I'm talking about property, not "intellectual property" which is nothing more than ideas propped up by laws.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
bull
shit
Let's bomb the f*&£ out of their country to get rid of theft forever.
(It wasn't meant to be a troll..)
"You know you don't act like a scientist, you're more like a game show host." Dana Barret
an erosion of respect for intellectual property that threatens Canada's economy and values at the core of our society,
So does the fact that you can caught perpetuating a multi-million dollar government fraud, and not go to jail.
The corruption and incompetence of the Chretien regime knows few bounds. Paul Martin is only a bit better. Why the voters keep voting for these idiots, I don't know.
"Downloading may turn you into a teenager" a scientist in lab coat commented. "We may have stumbled upon the fountain of youth".
Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
This was an incredible creative (and sick) idea. Microsoft should hire them.
Soon they will probably copy medieval propaganda about the jews and say that file sharers eat christian babies. :-)
Karma: Excellent (My Karma? I wish...:-( )
are more likely to leave a turd in your frontyard. I just love statistics!
www.weberseite.at
I'm a Canadian, I'm in the age group. Never shoplifted. Never cheated on a test. Download crap all the time. They definatly didn't servey people like me.
Respondents who answer one question about behavior seen as unethical honestly were more likely to answer other questions about behavior seen as unethical honestly.
Neat.
-Peter
Now, most people would consider rape and domestic violence to be more severe offenses than copyright violation. So clearly there needs to be much greater law-enforcement attention paid to the high-risk demographic categories of advertising executives, recording industry flacks, and marketers.
can we please set this straight: there's NO SUCH THING as 'intellectual property'.
the very term is an insult to human intellect.
Car theives around the world have a statistically higher probability of carrying a wire coat hanger on their persons. Wire coat hangers subsequently banned, chaos ensues as clothes around the world now heaped in piles on the floor. Crowbars told to watch themselves or face similar consequences.
Holy effin shite!
27% of 18-29 yr olds would cheat at exams - so just how many Canadians take exams AFTER they are 29?
6% of 18-29 yr olds would shoplift - and how many shoplifted before downloading became prevalent?
The survey also says that 100% of 18-29 yr olds where between the ages of 18 and 29.
I think it's more news-worthy that a newpaper would print this trite than the survey itself.
I would guess those that are more likely to shoplift would be more likely download pirated music.
It's like saying that producing lame arse studies makes people stupid.
It's just that stupid people produce lame arse studies.
This all just really goes to show that knowing who sponsored the study is more important often than the results. I took a journalism course once and had an assignment to check out a study about how milk sold in plastic bags went bad faster than in opaque cartons. Thing is, I found that it took a couple of days to go bad, had to be exposed to light (yeah, the fridge light does go out when you shut the door) and only two per cent of the milk sold at the time as sold in these plastic sacks. The study was, however, sponsored by ex-cello who just happen to make - opaque milk cartons.
A lot of these studies a crap and presented as fact and are not to be taken seriously. They exist to push an organization's viewpoint while deceiving the public as to their true nature.
Look no further than the tobacco company studies that show nicotine is not addictive. Yeah right, and beer causes cancer in asbestos workers.
So, considering that it has already previously been noted that the RIAA is not actually hurting, but instead still turning a health profit, are studies like this bogus POS what they are spending the money from their "lawsuits" on?
This tells me they might have just enough platinum and gold plated porches.
jlk
Living people more likely to breathe air.
Here will be an old abusing of God's patience and the king's English.
See what happens when the state gives people ``free" medical care---their kids turn out to be thugs who think everything is free (sans scare quotes) and take without remorse.
I think it is high time we in the U.S. invade Canada and put an end to this!
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." - H.L. Mencken
Police Man: Billy, what made you take that pack of gum?
Billy: Kazaa made me do it! Oh yeah, and the Hot Coffee mod too!
10 days later we see Billy on a caribbean island sipping a Shirley Temple wearing a tee shirt saying "This trip paid for by the RIAA."
Parents, don't let your children grow up to be statisticians. They help to turn out spurious crap reports like this.
"It's difficult to meditate on amphetamines." - Joe Walsh
Do you realize that in addition to P2P-ing music, why, there are studies underway to P2P video, software, news, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream. Ice cream, Mandrake, children's ice cream.
There are many many people who trade media online through P2P, whether it's music, prOn, movies, software, etc. I would bet that the vast majority of these people have never stolen so much as a candy bar from a convenience store.
Trading music just doesn't FEEL like stealing, although the RIAA is intent on convincing us otherwise.
I think the main reason why it doesn't feel like stealing is that people are so accustomed to free media, or at least, the all-you-can-eat approach to media. Movies come on T.V./cable all the time for free (or included in the cable package). Music plays on the radio all the time, for free. Plus, when you listen to music you don't consume anything. My listening to a song doesn't mean that somebody else can't listen to it, unlike a candy bar which can only be eaten by one person.
The RIAA has a long way to go.
FTA:
The effect of the piracy, however, does not stop at just music or movies, suggests a study from another polling firm.
Canadians between the ages of 18 and 29 are much more willing than other age groups to make illegal copies of software programs, cheat on exams or even shoplift, an Environics poll suggests.
First off, they polled people to determine how likely people are to commit various crimes? Second, it doesn't say who they polled in that particular poll. For all we know Environics went to some neighbourhood and polled some old guy who said, "I don't know what music piracy is, but if it's anything like not getting off my damned lawn, then I bet you damned kids these days are doing it!"
Bottom line is that site should be ashamed of posting such obvious crap from the recording industry, and that the recording industry has no shame (but we already knew that).
Arguing about vi versus Emacs is like arguing whether it's better to make fire by rubbing sticks or banging rocks.
I'm just dying for the RIAA to catch wind of this and pervert the study that says downloaders are more likely to buy CDs from the artists they download.
RIAA: Well of course P2P users have a lot of CDs from the bands they download...because they stole the CDs!
And then riots will brake out with all the angry labels brandishing pitchforks pointed at the evil haX0rz!
</completeandtotalexageration>
Perfecting Discordia
www.stevenvansickle.com
those who download music online are also likely to cheat at schools/universities...
Just last week I was surfing the coder-for-hire sites, and, in addition to the ridiculous, asinine demands people were making [$100,000 projects for opening bids of $100 - the sort of thing that would starve an already emaciated Bangalorean peasant], I was just appalled at the number of spoiled, self-obsessed, ingrate college students who were advertising for coders to write their CompSci and Engineering projects for them.
What the hell ever happened to academic integrity?
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28467
This is the NFL, which stands for "Not For Long" if you keep making those bulls*** calls.
Come on folks. As Michael Geist's website says, the major Canadian newspaper's (Globe & Mail, Ottawa Citizen, etc.) aren't even covering the article. Even though a lot of bullshit stories get printed and tossed in your yard, this one is just weighing in too heavy with idiocy.
For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.
The study's not right. It's not even wrong.
How can you argue with someone who has such an utter disregard to logic?
foo mane padme hum
In related news, users of Microsoft Windows found to use excessive foul language.
Our data suggests that there's nothing to fear for the Canadian Recording Industry. Global temperatures are rising, and it is a well-known fact that this trend points to a fall in the number of pirates. Less pirates lead to less pirated music, it's so simple! Plus, you get warmer winters. A double win for CRIA!
Nuffsaid
________
Don't know about his cat, but Schroedinger is definitely dead.
Can you really fault a kid for wanting to steal the latest copy Gangsta Rap Knee-Cap? The music glorifies the life of crime, so the would-be customers embrace that ethic by stealing that music. Makes perfect sense to me.
If the RIAA members want a more mature audience of paying customers, perhaps they should attempt to create a more mature product. Since they obviously aren't going to do that, they should just accept the shrinkage and price accordingly, like every other business in the world.
My whole life the record companies have been blaming their customers. Home taping was killing music. Bootlegging concerts was killing music, even though there's little interest in official live albums. Now P2P is killing music until the next scapegoat comes along. This is a pretty long swan song, isn't it?
It has been proven that those working for the RIAA have are more than 97% likely to smoke crack and kick kittens.
"New research report suggests that those who make up false claims in scientific reports are also likely to cheat at schools/universities and to shoplift. From the Globe and Mail: 'Not only does sponsored science harm real scientists, but it also points to an erosion of respect for intellectual property that threatens Canada's economy and values at the core of our society."
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
The major newspapers aren't covering it. Great. The important question is whether or not the nightly news will run a segment on it.
I was shoplifting and cheating way before P2P... Woops, did I think aloud again?
every time you download music illegally, God kills a kitten
This has been a test. Had this been a real emergency, we would have fled in terror and you would not have been informed.
Is this was gets written when they type for long enough?
We should make a movie called "P2P Madness". We can show how using P2P causes people to engage in all kinds of deviant behavior....and put it on bittorent!!!(/sarcasm)
A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both. Dwight D. Eisenhower
TFA:" The effect of the piracy, however, does not stop at just music or movies, suggests a study from another polling firm."
/. apparently misreading TFA and info from the studies, nowhere other than there does it suggest that piracy causes people to shoplift and/or cheat.
This is the only sentence in the article that implies a cause/effect relationship.
Despite tons of people on
Yes, the studies were sponsored by the CRIA. But that does not necessarily make them invalid.
Furthermore, I am not surprised at all by the results of the studies. Tons of people will shoplift, cheat, or pirate IP if the risk of, and punishment for, getting caught is low enough.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Ah, that's nothin' new. Go dredge the USENET archives for comp.lang.c and you'll find a steady supply of nimrods saying "I need to write a program to [insert Comp Sci project here]-- does anyone have a source listing for something that does this?" These posts are easily identified by the stream of replies to the effect of "go do your own homework, jackass!" There are always a few dopes at the bottom looking for an easy way out.
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
Since "Canadians between 12 and 24 years of age are responsible for 78 per cent of illegal music downloading" (source) and "95% of those who have eating disorders are between the ages of 12 and 25" (source), P2P sharing leads to anorexia. QED.
Most people have already pointed out the correlation!=causality problem with this study, but here are a couple of more issues:
1. This was done via a survey, so what that means is that people who admit to filesharing are more likely to admit to shoplifting and cheating. The "admit to" part is significant and was left out of the findings.
2. The argument appears to work like this: people 12-25 years old are most like to fileshare, and are most likely to shoplift, so therefor people who are likely to fileshare are likely to shoplift. In other words, A->B, A->C, therefor B->C.
So my basic interpretation of this one is along the lines of the "masturbation will make you go blind" argument: An utterly false statement that if true would make an otherwise relatively harmless activity seem harmful.
I am officially gone from
ha!
..A more useful study would be one that shows most people who cheat, shoplift, or download P2P music don't have enough time to REALLY stick it to the man by doing all three in in one day.
Look, CRIA.
I've seen many a good person cheat, shoplift, or download P2P music. (Including myself)
You will never convince me downloading music makes someone evil. People have vices, some are worse than others. The ones you list are a lot less important than ideals such as "loyalty", avoiding domestic violence, or being finacially responsible.
Some vices are the result of our environment. The internet is an environment where a new P2P software sharing application can be released every six months, and you can shut them down a couple years down the line. Somewhere in between a lot of people download music for free. Deal with this and fix the actual problem instead of trying to convince me I'm evil for downloading music years ago.
You cannot morally influence someone to avoid stealing music from their own home because they're going to have friends with less morals that care not, and are living examples of what a low risk it is to be caught.
It's hard to justify stealing entertainment as evil. I mean try to justify stealing medical supplies or food or something. But jesus, entertainment? COME ON, ok ok ok so it's bad, but it is by no means evil. Fix the problem yourself because you can't MAKE STEALING ENTERTAINMENT LOOK EVIL.
P2P users are more likely to listen to a lot of music which means they're more likely to be teens and thus are more likely to shoplift.
The picture of the day on the cbc.ca website was of a Soyuz rocket being taxied to the launch pad, great picture btw..
(caption from cbc website) "Russian Soyuz rocket booster is taken to a launch pad at Baikonur Cosmodrome, Sept. 29. The next U.S.-Russian space crew, including U.S. space tourist Gregory Olsen, is scheduled to blast off on Oct. 1. (File: AP Photo/Ivan Sekretarev)"
What's that shuttle in the background ??
On average upon leaving university, every student says they've cheated at least once. Be it copying a question, glancing at another paper, or other such small offence. Everyone cheats. Period.
"Gharbad no Hurt!" -Gharbad
If you did, you'd know the drinking age is 18 there, which was cause for frequent road trips when I was at RIT.
I wonder if the study looks at the past history of media execs as they lie cheat and steal from the artists they proclaim to want to protect.
The actual workers (artists) are being used as a football here, being misused in a campaign by the *AA to retain their control of a business model in its last throes (insert Rumsfeldian definition here)
...but I only do it because of peer 2 peer pressure!
In other news, scientists have discovered that Illegal P2P sharing is the leading cause for AIDS.
Clearly, Google is the next Microsoft.
I have hairy palms, too, from using P2P.
"It's a wonderful idea. But it doesn't work." -- Tad Danielewski
...doesn't make it illegal. At least not yet. My understanding of the recent court rulings was that in Canada, downloading is allowed. It is considered an extension of fair-use, given that it is already legal here for me to make a copy of a friend's store-bought CD. I cannot give away the copy, and I cannot make a copy and give it to a friend, but I can make a copy of the original CD for personal use, completely legally. This is why we pay a levy on blank CDs. Uploading music remains illegal. So if you download commercial music, take it out of your share folders and you should be fine (IANAL of course).
What pisses me off about this study is the statistic on how many people made audio CDs in the last 6 months. Uh hello - that's what the levy is for. To even suggest that that is illegal is unfair.
For my part, the music files in my collection are all obtained through original CDs. Either mine (I *do* purchase a significant amount of music), or borrowed originals (again, copy made for personal use is legal). I do not share the files I rip. I'm considering getting more from the library too. Although I don't download music, I still believe it to be completely legal in Canada.
On a side note, the CRIA pisses me off. As an example of their greediness, they've gone so far as to send threatening letters to dentists, telling them they can't play the radio in their offices (or their on-hold music) because they haven't paid a licensing fee. It's considered entertainment for commercial purposes (regardless of the fact that they already get royalties from the stations) and want to double-dip. The dentists I know have had to purchase some royalty-free loops for their on-hold music, and have stopped playing the radio in their offices.
You can accomplish anything you set your mind to. The impossible just takes a little longer.
"Canadians illegally download 14 music CDs or other files from the Internet for every file they take from the web legally, a new recording-industry poll suggests."
/.'s home page has atleast 1 html file and 1 CSS file (not sure about the new system) and atleast 10 image files. All of which you have legally downloaded.
/. home page would have to download 168 CDs worth of music for your first visit here. Call it a wild guess, but I doubt there are many people who have P2P a library of anything close to that size.
That means that you damn Canadians who visit only the
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
I really need to get new glasses.
Exactly. Plus, TFA specifically ties it to age groups, not P2P use. P2P sharing is simply one of the things that people in this age group tend to have a more permissive attitude about. What a shocker: young people tend to act like, well, young people.
Of course, it would have been more fun to pick some other correla... er, "causal relationships", like willingness to give blow jobs or engage in group sex. Those attitudes are probably higher in the same age group as well.
Now those are some P2P activities we can all agree are not infringing!
Let the propaganda wars begin !!!
In other news, a Kazaa funded study has shown that RIAA executives are more likely to abuse children and kick puppies and that the profits made from legal CD sales fund those activities.
Once upon a time I was a sociology major/grad student. From what I remember, profs in both schools I attended liked to tell the following story:
Back when the baby boomers were kids, a sociologist predicted that there would be a "crime wave" when they came of age. Most crimes are committed by 16-30 year old men (I'm sure I have the ages wrong, but something like that) and thus once the baby boomers hit those ages, there were more crimes than usual.
Since then of course, police departments have claimed that better police methods have lowered the crime wave, but the reality is that the baby boomers have left the age bracket that does the crime.
Similarly, this study only proves that people who download files for free also are in the same age group as the people most likely to commit crimes.
This is not exactly news.
muwahahahahahhahahaHAHAHA!!!!!
Wow, thats great, then I guess they are just the type of people big cut throat record companies need, the kind of dihonest people who can keep a straight face when they say that they really need to charge 20$ a cd to turn a profit.....
I'd love to see a study examining industries where companies and/or products are marginalized by technical advances. I suspect that headlines announcing that study might read: "Companies with Antiquated Business Models More Likely to Lie, Distort"
It is odd that companies think they have a right to profits just because what they did before was profitable. It is bad for the general public when they can get politicians to agree.
Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.
it's been found that breating leads to criminal behavure. In a survey of prison inmates and juvenile delinquents, all of them said they were breating at the time leading up to and during thier crimes.
How can we let this happen, I think the RIAA should step up and make a good example to the public and stop this breating behavure. Think of the children.
Unless you don't think The Toronto Star is major.
You can accomplish anything you set your mind to. The impossible just takes a little longer.
Corporate law requires that a company be able to demonstrate that the company protected the stockholders interests to the best of their ability.
Yes I cheated occasionally in school, yes I've shoplifted (minor things like gum or candy as a kid, even CDs). But in no way did downloading copyrighted music on P2P networks lead me to this. Its just the type of person I am. I'm not religious at all so perhaps thats why I don't have much in the way of morals. But regardless of why I am this way, its the type of person I am that gives me no amount of guilt for downloading. I do it just to save money because I'm a bit of a cheapskate. The fact that I don't have much of a conscience could catch up to me someday but up to this point in my life I'm just fine with all the things I've done and will continue to do.
There are 5 people in this world Those who approve of Crest and those who don't
...this poll is dead on. I don't know about you, but after I go out and electronically steal an entire CD, I just don't feel right until I go to the store and steal the same CD physically. I guess that in some way in my own mind it legitimizes the 'illegal' downloads. As an added bonus, I get to hit the RIAA where it hurts 2x.
Civilization, the death of dreams.
The music industry built itself from taking what was a rebellious underground phenomenon called Rock and Roll and turning it into a product. They spent close to half a century telling people at the most angst ridden and doubt filled stage of their lives that rebellion against authority figures was a good thing and that consuming said product was an excellent way of showing people just how cool and anti-authoritarian you were. Break all the rules, buy our product. People were paid phenomenal amounts of money to bombard that core audience with the same message, over all forms of media until that message was inescapable.
Now the same industry is telling us that its core consumers are acting in an anti-authoritarian way and breaking the rules. Funny that.
I guess I'm just not in this statistic. P2P abrubptly stopped in my house when I subscribed to Rhapsody. Where's the study that shows P2P represents a market demand that the RIAA could be making money off of?
"Derp de derp."
Gardeners more likely to dig in dirt; lifeguards more likely to get wet.
In other news the RIAA says P2P users are more likely to eat babies and kick puppies.
Really, RIAA, you need to make your statements more aggressive, compelling, and emotional so that the common people will believe you.
:(, makes the public believe that what he does is right (gasp!), and not only that, he invites others to follow his TWISTED ways! (shock) He turns ordinary people into criminals! Furthermore, he KNOWS what he's doing is WRONG, because he HIDES HIS IDENTITY! :-o
Here's an example of what you should say when talking about a file sharer:
"This THIEF... steals money that others have WORKED HARD TO EARN
We're giving a reward to whomever turns in this CRIMINAL, this, ENEMY OF THE PUBLIC, known as... "
Then, you only need to give him a name, so HIDEOUS and TERRIFYING, that the people and families fear him whenever they hear it. Something... unmentionable, scary... EVIL! Find that name, and you'll have YOUR VICTORY! I mean, what could possibly go wrong?
I was just appalled at the number of spoiled, self-obsessed, ingrate college students who were advertising for coders to write their CompSci and Engineering projects for them.
Many of these post the exact assignment text given to them by their instructor. A little Googling usually turns up the class website, and the instructor is usually quite interested in hearing about this kind of academic fraud.
Or so I would imagine.
So, if sharing files becomes you a cheater and shoplifter, then you are becoming you the new breed of pirates, so... this is GOOD for our environment, since it will reverse the global warming effect.
You see... pirates are good.
Â_Â
I *quit* shoplifting when P2P got popular (napster)....it was easier to just download music from home than to go all the way into town and steal the cd.
adventure-today.com
Such studies are going to be extremely hard to perform, because there are so many hard-to-measure factors involved. It's well known that there have been fewer CD sales in the last few years, but how much of that is due to P2P, legal song-at-a-time downloads, satellite radio, or just plain crappy music is nearly impossible to sort out. They were up last year, but I can't say if that's due to better music or to RIAA lawsuits scaring some people into buying rather than downloading (or even crappy accounting designed to convince RIAA shareholders that their campaigns are working).
Personally, I put the burden of proof on the music sharers. Given that the people who paid to have the music made have asked them not to do it, "prove to me that I'm costing you money" seems like the wrong way around. (And I'm tangentially involved in a band; I know how expensive it is to get an album made and promoted.)
I do not doubt that at least some CD sales have been lost to P2P. That seems pretty straightforward: at least some poeple who would have bought an album have instead chosen to download it (or part of it) for free. So there's very good reason to believe that at least some money has been lost.
Combine the two (you'd expect file sharing to lower CD sales, and CD sales have fallen), and that's as close to "actually and truthfully show[ing] that this is the case" as you're likely to get. It's not genuine proof, as I'm sure everybody is likely to remind me in their replies, but it seems strong enough to me to put the burden of proof on the shoulders of those who contend that file sharing isn't immoral.
Has it harmed artists? That's even harder to say. How many fewer bands do less-profitable recording labels sign? Even the bands that they do sign receive a negligible sum for actual CD sales, but do people go to concerts or buy merchandise from bands they've downloaded but weren't willing to pay for? I can't even begin to tell you how to measure that. There are so many bands (so, so many) and such a small chance of making any real money off of it that it's nearly impossible to measure how much they've been harmed, helped, or otherwise.
At least one band I know likes it when you download their music; it means you're listening and may even go to a club to see them or buy a tee-shirt. But the fact that many people would download their music anyway, even if they weren't fine with that, bugs the hell out of them.
...students in universities and colleges. These people are ususally on government assistance and cannot afford anything.
A morning without coffee is like something without something else.
Case-in-point: Was at a Staples store this summer, and the power goes out (daytime) with no tills or security gate backup. ALL the staff are gathered at the front, except a watcher when I go to the small-and-valuable computer section. I'm no futz and I had bags of my own, so could've easily pocketed a couple things and come back to pay for the rest of my basket later when power returned.
Point is, I didn't want to. I looked at a (bargain) game, and instead of walking out with a physical product I realized quickly I could try it out via Torrent. Spent the next half hour trying to wrap my head around why I don't care to steal in the physical realm, but on the interweb it seems to be fair game. Don't have a good answer yet, but I've watched adults copy software since the Apple II days before I could even pronounce "intellectual property."
For me, file sharing isn't about theft, it's about convenience. I buy from iTunes and Steam rather than trek to a store and have another pointless physical object to dust. Most of what I like is imports anyway... and guess what, when I visited Japan? Bought authentic stuff, not Hong Kong knockoffs.
Stop paid piracy first, I say.
If you breath, you might be a copyright infringer!
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
That's funny. Like all big business, the record companies wouldn't be where they are without CHEATING. ARtists of the 40's and 50's were RAPED when it came to pay - noone really knew what to expect.
All in all, its the American way - the way of the corporation (aka Wild West). You see an advantage, take the advantage and forge your way to making more money. If everyone played by the rules and didn't cheat (find loopholes) with taxes, employee benefits, etc., WalMart would be 1/10 of its size as there would be 9 other corporations in competition.
Some pirates are respectable, some pirates are scum - but we all like to plunder the weak and drink rum.
Now where's my bloody cutlass - ARGH!
And their hair. What's up with that? And their shifty, beady eyes...
What a load of shit. I file share a lot, but I still have my standards. I've never shoplifted and I don't cheat on tests. Maybe that's just me, but what a bullshit generalization. Sometimes I even think my morals are too high.
OK, where's _my_ five finger discount?
+that's funny...I don't FEEL tardy.+
Nearly 27% of younger people surveyed by the RIAA would consider cheating on exams, leading to belief that answering RIAA surveys leads to cheating on exams and the moral decay of our society.
By putting down a couple thoundand dollars more the recording industry could have had a study showing that P2P users are also mass murderers and terrorists. Why are they being so stingy nowadays?!...
"Canadians illegally download 14 music CDs or other files from the Internet for every file they take from the web legally..."
Yes. A music CD is one file. Apparently perhaps most file trading is done on the web now? And with the hundreds of web requests that your typical Joe User makes sitting at the computer -- for each of those there's 14 illegal files? Canadians are thievy!
"...noting a rise in plagiarism in schools and universities."
One that conveniently doesn't have any statistics quoted.
Shoplifting and taking copyrighted material by P2P download are both criminal activities.
and the instructor is usually quite interested in hearing about this kind of academic fraud.
Yeah, he'll make sure the culprits are automatically transferred to the MBA program.
From TFA:
Pollara's findings are based on a national telephone survey of more than 1,200 Canadians aged 12 and over between June 24 and July 12.
The firm says the results are accurate to within plus or minus 2.5 percentage points, 19 out of 20 times.
Environics polled just over 1,000 Canadians aged 18 or over by telephone, and another 1,043 Canadians on-line in May, 2005.
It says the findings are accurate to within plus or minus 3.1 percentage points, 19 out of 20 times.
Pollara's accuracy rate is 95% score accuracy * 95% of the time, which is and overall accuracy of 90.25%. This means that almost 1 of every 10 scores is inaccurate.
Envionic's accuracy rate is 93.8% score accuracy * 95% of the time, which is and overall accuracy of 89.11%. This means that slightly more than 1 of every 10 scores is inaccurate.
These are unacceptable accuracy rates to apply to the entire country. In other words, don't pass laws based on a non-independent studies that will affect all Canadians and be completely wrong, 1 out of 10 times. It's just not good science.
Are "P2P users buy more CDs" assertions any better or do they use the exact same fallacy?
Congressmen are more likely to accept bribes for votes
RIAA employees are more likely to trample consumer rights
[N.T.]
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Using the masterful logic along the lines of this study, I put forth this proposal:
People over the age of 50 are more likely to buy music.
People over the age of 50 are also more likely to die/suffer from medical problems.
Therefore, buying music leads to a painful death/suffering from medical problems.
MY LOGIC IS FLAWLESS!
Boy, isn't this the pot calling the kettle black?
Record Companies More Likely to Cheat, Gouge
I, for one, welcome our new Antichrist overlord.
I thought not.
well obviously we've found that the lack of pirates is causing the growth of RIAA executives, in turn the growth of RIAA executives is causing global warming. So yes, the lack of pirates are the cause of global warming *by* causing the growth of RIAA execs.
;)
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
This is complete and utter bullcrap. I have not once, and I mean *ever*, cheated on a test, and I've NEVER shoplifted from a store.
To determine if there is any correlation with breastfed versus bottle fed.
I will be glad to do it for a sizable grant.
Sheesh.
Rod Stewart is not Canadian, he's scottish.
And Celine, well she ain't Canadian either, in my books.
It is incredibly short sighted to assume P2P piracy leads to other forms of deviance. It could be, and IMHO probably is, primarily the other way around. People that are comfortable with bending or ignoring the rules in the real world will probably function similarly online. Especially since they're aided with increased anonymity and massive peer support online.
That hypothesis makes a much more sense to me. Going from online deviance to real world deviance is a big step to take. You would need to cope with the loss of anonymity and peer support. That's not very appealing. It's easier the other way around.
Yet, a multiyear academic study with controls would have to be conducted. Until that is done, you can't form conclusions one way or the other.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
But people who download legal creative commons music are much less likely to be thieves...
So this means that the RIAA's music itself is responsible for the ethical downfall of our society! The next time your house is robbed, you know the RIAA did it!
[all tongue in cheek, sorry]
Good science isn't just about promoting your theory, it's about trying to figure out in every way that it might be wrong, and stating that too. It's then about testing those, TRYING to falsify your theory. If it then holds up to all that, you are on deceant footing to say it's true.
This is one of the things that I hate about the behavioural sciences is they seem to be the worst for this shit (my undergraduate study was largely philsophy). A researcher will do a simple test, find something that's maybe a correlation, and overgeneralize it to a whole bunch of things, without suggesting any of the possible problems with their own theory.
Bad enough, but then special intrest groups like the RIAA make it worse. They'll find people to do a study, get the result they like, and then trumpet it to the media as being "proof" of a point, who are of course far too lazy to check up on it. All of a sudden a weak study that hasn't been repeated is morphed in to proof of some new understanding in human behaviour.
and Diva Celine. BC
I shoplifted this computer and cheated in school to learn how to use it
;-)
Undergraduate academic integrity has been lost? When? Not recently! I was teaching in the 70s when one of our colleagues failed to turn up one day -- he had been arrested for fraud becuse his degree certificate was forged. The rest of us agreed that we should have worked it out for ourselves -- when we had been discussing cheating in undergraduate labs, he was shocked and said "We never did anything like that." We belatedly realized that that indicated he hadn't really attended university.
When I reached the eminence of university staff myself, I was amused by how shocked colleagues purported to be by ordinary student misdemeanours. What we did was light-hearted fun, what they do is a crime...
Yes but... do porn leechers have a higher chance of the same? Cause if you haven't noticed... there's a lot of porn out here... Oh look PR0N!! :click: :D
More P2P users are young!
Pirates vs Global warming anyone?
Blanket article. I get sick of this, yes the people who is going to flat out STEAL music which is also prone to shoplift (aka steal) and cheat, will of course use P2P now if they can.
But that's with any method, those who want to sample music or try music they can't buy (I still have yet to find a non import version of DJ Sammy's first album of which the RIAA gets nothing for that, and I can't find my copy of DJ Sammy's "Heaven album" so I grabbed that one so I still have my copy while I search for it.) arn't going to say "I use P2P, maybe I should cheat on the next test." or "I got that music for free, I know I'm going to steal this PS2 game."
The corrolation is INCORRECT. That's the problem.
The correct corrolation is more likely to be "Those who cheat and lie and try to steal when they can, will use P2P to steal music more efficently" (and remember that's likely going to be the guy with 30,000 music files all from American CDs)
Anyone interested in how corrolations are misleading, or other interesting but hard to swallow facts (note these facts are hard to swallow only because no one would believe it with out proof, but the proof is there and solid, and believable, though it's shocking), should check out a book Freakonomics, ISBN number 006073132X.
And here's the biggest problem with the article. That article is published in OTTAWA! so the people there arn't under american jurisdiction. It allows them to sample american music with out dealing with imported goods (yes it's considered imported)
Reality check:
The recording industry has been repeatedly and consistently been involved in crime, including bribery, theft from artists, and murder.
The recording industry has a long history of involvement with organized crime. Example: Morris Levy, a longtime Genovese crime-family associate and recording industry "legend."
The recording industry has been repeatedly accused itself of corrupting the values of youth, and even inciting violence. But in those cases, it claims the protection of freedom of expression -- a freedom they have worked hard to deny to programers and consumers through outragous legislation and restrictive technologies.
With this record, without even getting into the lies they have spread, accusations from the recording industry have little credibilty as far as I am concerned.
What can we do? Support the EFF and the FSF.
I would be more inclined to believe that cheaters and shoplifters are more likely to download copyrighted material.
However, I'm not sure where the article even talks about P2P users being more likely to cheat or shoplift. It talks about Canadians 18-29 being more likely than the general population to do these acts.
I guarantee that if I did a study, it would show that P2P users were four times as likely to be shot and killed than a non-P2P user.
Why? P2P users are young, and most shooting deaths are of younger people.
Correlations don't necessarily mean anything.
I dont agree with this at all i download music and i do my own school work and i dont steal either!
It obvious that many of you have missed the most important aspect of the study...though they try to link P2P and anti-social activities, the most important result is that Canadian youth are quite evil. We must protect our shores and our borders and not let these anit-social soon-to-be-convicts in. Wasn't Canada once a penal colony (hehe...I said penal)...oh wait, that was Australia...close enough.
The stats mentioned in the article don't even show correlation between file swapping and shoplifting. It showed correlation between *age* and file swapping and also between *age* and shoplifting. The groups "file swappers" and "shoplifters" could be disjoint. The article doesn't say (and most reporters aren't intelligent/educated enough to notice).
I was just appalled at the number of spoiled, self-obsessed, ingrate college students who were advertising for coders to write their CompSci and Engineering projects for them. What the hell ever happened to academic integrity?
What do you mean? Our culture teaches people that money can buy you anything, therefore all you should try to get is money. A college degree is simply a ticket to get a good paying job. If you could buy them outright, people would do so. (And in fact, with degree mills, that's exactly what happens.)
Other than that, there are also a lot of "students" who are nothing of the sort. They are very overworked laborers who are trying to squeeze themselves into a higher wage bracket. They generally work while going to college, hence simply don't have the time to properly be a student. For them, it makes a certain kind of harsh and practical sense to simply buy up blocks of academic effort. They are too busy, hence can only trade money for academic results; they already traded off excess time for money simply by being a working college attendee.
I don't condone any of this, of course, but there's nothing I can do about it except lavish my spite upon it all. Equally of course, being a college dropout myself, my criticisms are inevitably filed under "sour grapes" until my predictions come to pass.
[You have a stable society when some nut guns down a schoolyard and the law doesn't change.]
I hear there's an increase in deaths at swimming pools on days when ice cream is sold.
A disproportionate number of file swappers are under the age of 21.. mainly, children and teenagers. Of course they're more likely to cheat and shoplift! They're teenagers, asshats! God I love it when companies try to use their own brand of "science" to their advantage.. Ahh, the stench of rotten eggs makes me feel alive.
1) Tobacco Industry Report: smoking definitely doesn't cause cancer.
2) Petroleum Industry Report: global warming is a myth
The RIAA's in great company, these days.
Kythe
Funny, my 'try before you buy' policy has recently led me to buy CDs from artists I hadn't heard of until recently and certainly wouldn't have purchased CDs from. My CD purchases have risen since getting broadband internet, not fallen.
There's a TV/cinema advert here in the UK that shows several crimes taking place along with slogans such as "You wouldn't steal a handbag!" or "You wouldn't steal a car!".
No, I wouldn't steal a car, nor would I buy one without a test drive.
My idea. Make _all_ recorded music available for free download. Every bit of it. Straight from easily navigable high-bandwidth record company servers. What I try and like, I'll buy on CD.
The catch? Make the downloads low data rate. I can tell if I like a song if I hear it on AM radio in the car. That's mono and comes with engine noises mixed in and the odd bridge induced drop-out. As that is the case I can tell if I like an album from a 72kb/s data rate OGG/MP3/etc file.
I just performed my own study over the past 10 years of my life (mainly from watching TV and browsing the Internet). My results are as follows:
Rich people are more likely to want more and more money. Did anyone ever see a poor person steal/embezle tens or hundreds of millions of dollars?
People who complete high school are more likely to have an impact on the world. How many inventors, peace advocates, leaders, etc. do you know that don't have a high school diploma?
Studies are usually paid for by a group with a motive and hence a large amount of them are biased!
When will Humanity learn to use it's potential for good/helping instead of individual/corportate profiteering??
Just discovered!
Being a high school drop out, a drug user AND a shoplifter makes you more likely to steal MY music!
In a new report commissioned by "Lies, Damned Lies & Statistics" the **AA has found that amoral people have no problem stealing music online.
"It's like they just don't care about all the hard work we put into making music" a talking head from the **AA said. In unrelated news, there also seems to be a link between being amoral and being a murderer. Is there a link between being a P2P user and being a murderer?!?! Tonight at 11.
Gag me with a fork,
Petyr
- Kids between the age of 12 and 24 shoplift 75% more than those belonging older than 24. The same statistic show that people over 24 make more money than 12 year old and have dispensible income (and they tend to be more mature.
- 50% of adults over 24 have no idea what file sharing is.
- 27% of younger would consider cheating on an exam. Those over 24 wouldn't.. considering they don't take exams anymore.
These "statistics" are absolutely retarded. Young people in general shoplift more, use computers more, use file sharing more, cheat on exams, etc etc. That's why we call them IMMATURE. Once people grow up, go through college and get a job they respect what it takes to earn money. PLUS they have money to spend. As an adult I can afford to buy whatever albums I want. As a child I didn't. I had a bunch of friends stealing when I was a kid who don't steal anymore... it's what kids do.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
use windaz!
Dude, what is up with you?
6 84987/6 15125/
You've posted this again in this same thread:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=163879&cid=13
also a few days ago here:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=162927&cid=13
There's little or no "erosion" of respect for intellectual property. People don't have respect for intellectual property, that could erode. Partly because most people don't have any intellectual property of our own. Most of us, anyway, at least the way our personal info is treated as an exception to IP. People have generally not "stolen" (diluted by copying) IP so far, because it was hard to do, easy to get caught, and of little benefit, except to enthusiasts (warez traders) and pros (pirates and bootleggers). Now that it's easy, the lack of respect is exposed.
One way to engender that respect, to grow it the way our culture unrelentingly nurtures other property respect (and greed/fear), is to treat our personal info as our intellectual property. Right now, corporate IP like media and messages are treated as property, with whole industries dedicated to protecting, trading and promiting it. Personal info, like identity info, is free, expected to be delivered by people to corporations for authentication, tracking, marketing. If we exchanged that info under copyright, giving copies authorized for transmission only within the specific transaction it was first transmitted (no transitive copyright, just the copy), its property status would be clear. Retransmission without authorization or compensation would establish IP boundaries for personal info. We'd all learn a lot more about IP, how its "theft" and abuse affects people. With our personal experience, we'd relate to IP, and have a basis for respect in mutual understanding. Without that, no respect is possible. Without respect in the first place, it can't erode.
--
make install -not war
The study should claim that its Canadian youth eh?
This reminds me of a study once that compared the populator of MacOS users to left handed people and homosexuals... the conclusion that all MacOS users are left handed gay people.
/\/\icro/\/\uncher
Its possible for there to be a correlation and actually still have it DROP the shoplifting rate.
(NOTE: The following is completely based on assumptions had has absolutely no bearing on reality.)
Lets say 2% of the population is shoplifters and 10% use P2P now lets assume 50% of shoplifters use P2P that means the P2P users are now 90% non-shoplifters and 10% shoplifters. Now lets say 40% of those shoplifters get what they want through P2P and don't shoplift anymore. You end up with a rate of 6% of P2P users being shoplifters even though the overall rate has dropped due to P2P.
All misspellings and grammatical errors in the above post are intentional and part of my artistic expression.
"Not only does music file-swapping harm artists, but it also points to an erosion of respect for intellectual property that threatens Canada's economy and values at the core of our society,' said Graham Henderson, president of the Canadian Recording Industry Association, which commissioned the polls."
Won't somebody think of the children? ROFL. Funniest quote I have read in a while. These guys are so funny.
I won't speak for most people, but I use P2P a lot. And I use it to sample music. Now, I have several thousand songs in my collection. I rip the majority from CDs and cassettes. I've recently pulled my LPs out of storage and will begin ripping them to MP3 soon. I spend an awful lot of money on music. I have purchased 427 songs so far from iTMS since it opened. But I still like to sample music.
I am tired of buying albums filled with clunkers. I like buying one song at a time. But I find the 30 second sample on iTMS unsatisfactory. First of all, the 30 seconds clipped usually seem to be made by machine or idiot because they often fail to represent the chorus, or hook of the song. So I sample music off P2P. I DL'd the Taxi Dolls, loved their stuff, and bought their album. I DL'd Autolux, loved their stuff and bought their album. I DL'd something by Shakira the other day, hated it, then deleted the track. P2P for me is interactive Radio.
If the record companies made a P2P service that featured lores, full clips of their music I could sample to my hearts content and buy as an informed consumer. (They should release hires MP3s of their catalogs, and I'd still buy as an informed consumer but they'd never go for that) There are more records I haven't bought because I didn't trust them than ones I did buy. The RIAA would make more money off of me if they embraced P2P instead of being so paranoid and litigious.
But that's just me. YMMV
The Splintered Mind - Overcoming
Just pray you never get Republican neo-cons. If you do, you'll soon be wishing for the old days of the more easy-going, less extremist, less power-mad and less dangerously incompetent "Commies"
If someone asks you if you are doing illegal activities than only those who don't care if they get caught will answer yes.
The people that answered "no" to the poll also use P2P illegally, speed, shoplift, and smoke pot like everyone else, but they'll never get caught because they no how to answer the question correctly when an officer asks. The people that answered "I plead the 5th!!! Where is my laywer!?" to the poll are not only richer than the other two types poll participants, but also are usually involved in politics.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
I was just thinking the same thing, so I guess we should conclude that we should never trust Canadians ages 18-29. I never trusted them anyway. :)
Actually, I first read the post as PSP Users More Likely to Cheat, Shoplift. I was really starting to wonder. Actually, I read it 4x, and didn't catch the error until reading a few comments. Darn those Canadian PSP users, the hosers!
Of course, with shoplifting you are also ripping off your local retailer (who could care less about copyright). So it comes down to a matter of principle. Who do you dislike more: Wal-Mart or RIAA?
I have a soft spot for Wal-Mart, despite their low pay and low benefits for employees. I have no pity for the RIAA, which takes advantage of artists and consumers.
(Unfortunately, I do have a moderate amount of old-fashioned respect for laws, but the limits of that respect are reached more and more easily these days.)
As I read ths, the article says younger folks are more likely to cheat on exams or shoplift than older folks. It says nothing about the tendencies of younger folks who illegally download files compared to younger folks who do not illegally download files. That's the key question.
Relevant extracts from the article:
"Nearly 27 per cent of younger people surveyed said they would consider cheating on a test or exam, compared with 10 per cent of the general population.
Of those asked, 6 per cent of younger Canadians said they would leave a store without paying for a piece of clothing, compared with 2 per cent of the population at large."
Students who cheat on exams are more likely to consider illegal file sharing "OK".
It is a simple correlation that says nothing about causation.
Although actually the article didn't even establish a correlation between these two - it only showed that both were somewhat correlated with being young.
Stating that there's a correlation does nothing to show that P2P decreases morality.
Assuming for a second that the study is accurate, isn't it even more likely that people who already have a propensity to shoplift simply are more likely to use P2P?
I think I'll come out with a study that says wearing bikinis makes you fit and sexy, since clearly most people who wear bikinis are also fit and sexy.
Kevin Fox
The Canadian government is so mediocre that shots itself on the foot and thinks is OK.
Calling the people that pay %15 on consumer taxes thieves is sign of short sightness or blindness.
"Better than the Americans the Canadians never will be" if Yoda saya that must be right. I say this because Canadian politicians are all puppets and Yoda is thier master.
Oh No Canada, Canada No.
I heard P2P users are 10 times more likely to become terrorists too.
An independent group recently found that monopolistic industries more likely to bribe politicians to make ad hoc laws, and bully customers.
Also, they have definitive proof that water is wet.
While this "research" may be hysterical, we shouldn't laugh it off. If the RIAA keeps bombarding the media with this garbage, many people will take it at face value. When you toss in the fact that many television news networks' parent companies own a major label or two, we could wind up with a very calculated campaign of mass deception.
-- www.punkmusic.com
Who do those sort of things more often in the first place.
REMEMBER: the decline in the number of pirates on Earth is the cause for the rise in global temperatures.
...horny people found more likely to become sex offenders.
mailto:info@cria.ca or perhaps even mailto:ghenderson@cria.ca
Students are more likely to download music & cheat on tests in school & steal things than non-students. Seems like a tautology to me.
-- Each tock of the Planck clock is a new world and here we are still life. --
Smoke user more likely to be pyromaniacs!
:D
Burn the witch!
Windows users are more likely to crash planes, linux users are more likely to coredump and DOS users are more like to remain dumb.
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...spit on the sidewalk, take candy from babies, knock old people down, make fun of retards and worship Satan.
Actually, that's a flag that they are American, or have been watching too many American TV Shows. (This is a Canadaian newspaper.)
Of course, I doubt such a poll contains anything other than yes/no - given that most phones are technically random telephone calls, it is very likely that the results are skewed to favour one result. For example, there's one section asks if users are willing to download music without paying for it - this is skewed in two ways: The first, people not wanting to admit to piracy would say "no", while others that download free music (where the artist released the work for free) could say "yes".
Slashdot, Contributing the to Deliquency of Deliquents. News for Deliquents, stuff that kinda sorta sorta but not-really matters.
Hell, we're doing them a favor... as a downloader of music, i can't stand idolly by and let artists kill themselves with crack, heroine and alchohol. It is my moral obligation to keep those dangerous substances out of their reach. So to say I am injuring them is not only a sham, it's a travesty. If anything, I'm helping them heal and stay clean.
This is so misleading, I halfway expect to see it as the basis of an LSAT question tomorrow morning. For those of you in need of some last minute LSAT prep, let's turn this into a sample question. ;-)
Tom: A study found that people who download copyrighted music on peer-to-peer networks are much more willing than others to make illegal copies of software programs, cheat on exams or shoplift. So getting people to stop that kind of downloading will remove one cause of those kinds of activities.
Tom's argument is most subject to criticism because:
a) It assumes a cause-effect relationship where a correlation exists.
b) It confuses an activity and its cause.
c) It doesn't cite the source of funding for the study.
d) It overlooks the possibility that Tom works for the RIAA.
Which one of the following, if true, would most weaken the argument?
a) Tom downloads music on peer-to-peer networks, and doesn't cheat on his exams or shoplift.
b) Exams are administered in such a way as to ensure that cheating is impossible.
c) College students are the most likely to own computers, which is a requirement of using peer-to-peer networks or programs.
d) The laws of copyright don't make any provisions for peer-to-peer networks to exist.
Answers:
(a) Tom's argument says that eliminating peer-to-peer networking would remove a cause of the other illicit activity. The inferential assumption then is that the correlation is due to a cause-effect relationship, which hasn't been established.
(c) If college students have the most access to computers, then EVEN IF the moral attitudes and behavior among all computer users is IDENTICAL regarding peer-to-peer downloading and pirating software, they will still be more likely to engage in those activities.
Yes, I know Tom doesn't exactly represent the article's authors or the study. The title "P2P Users More Likely to Cheat, Shoplift," however, does kind of head TOWARD Tom's opinion, and I was only being as reactionary to it as it is to the article.
For anyone who didn't notice, there's some very suspect logical weirdness here. Notice the "or." That means that for the whole statement to be true, the likelihood of only ONE of those activities has to go up. That means I could add any activity onto the end of the statement and, assuming one of the first activities' likelihoods did indeed correlate with peer-to-peer music downloads, the whole statement would be true.
Example:
"Vegetarians are more likely to eat broccoli."
If that's true then the following MUST ALSO be true:
"Vegetarians are more likely to eat broccoli, get abortions, commit murder, engage in promiscuous b***iality o**ies with n*ns, or own a copy of the Chicago Manual of Style."
That's not misleading at all. </sarcasm>
PS -- Wish me luck on the LSAT tomorrow <grin>
Zonk posts flamebait. When will we have article moderation?
If you shoplift a Canadian, pirates will seal your internets.
The first time I posted it, I left out the quote from the article.
Sorry.
I've shoplifted but I have never done any software pirating. I mean come on, how is picking up stores in any way involved with illiegal activity?
Just because I stole candy bars as a child,cheated my way to a degree and I am kepting a mistress, That's only a lucky guess that I use peer to peer. Wait they didn't say anything about the other women.
Look, if that's your attitude, then you're part of the problem, and we would be wasting our time if we even tried to have a conversation about the phenomenon.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
This is a stunning revelation since downloading music that has been abandonned in the
digital domain could hardly be labelled unethical, in comparison to the highly
unethical behaviors listed alongside in the article.
is that the file-sharers in question are avid Jane's Addiction fans!
Yes, they generated enough evidence to convince a jury his time...NOT
Wow, they needed a multi-million dollar survey to tell them that people who are old enough to want things but don't have the money to purchase them have a higher chance of possibly shoplifting. And cheating, some people cheat on tests for as long as their in school, 1st grade or college.
"37 per cent of respondents used a CD burner to record music within the last six months, up from 18 per cent in 2001."
I guess using a "CD burner" is illegal, even if at least 95% of new home PC have that as a standard feature. Note that it doesn't say make remixes also known as consolidating the good songs on to a few disks as possible. Or making a copy for their car, I'm sure they can find a study that says a lot of people between 18 and 29 buy cars, or portable player, no reason to risk damaging the fragile unreturnable/unexchangable original or maybe even a backup copy. And lets not even think that some of them could be real musicians, not the manufactured on hit wonders/failures created by the RIAA, who are recording their own works.
And my already low opinion of the RIAA drops even further.
F7 doesn't work, ignore spelling and grammar
Canadians between 12 and 24 years of age are responsible for 78 per cent of illegal music downloading, even though they make up only 21 per cent of the population, it says.
So what about those that are uploading, which is what is legally illegal in Canada??? Answer me that one, Canadian Equivalent to the **AA. What about those that are breaking the law by allowing others to download the files in the first place???
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
That's like saying people who view and pay for online porn are more likely to masturbate.. oh wait..
Just driver's licence tests I suppose when one moves state, and anybody who has to cheat on one of those probably can't find the on switch on a computer to start with. One that comes to mind was for my power boat operators test. The theoretical part of the test contained one question (I swear on a stack of K&Rs this is true): "What's the pointy end of the boat called" I couldn't cheat on that exam if I tried.
Squirrel!
Weird, but for me, shoplifting came first (sometime in the late eighties), and then I started downloading music illegally around 1998.
People have been cheating in school ever since the beginning of organized education. The internet just makes it easier and more obvious to observe. Besides, a halfway competent professor can detect internet-related cheating a lot easier than the old fashioned pay-the-smart-kid-to-do-your-assignment cheating.
Would you also be inclined to believe copyright holders drink harder and do more cocaine? After all, look at musicians. Don't even get me started on Roman Polanski.
congressmen, senators, and presidents most likely to cheat, steal, lie, murder, rape, harrass, bribe, flush an entire country down the toilet....
Oh and there's P2P and shoplifting... I'm sure glad those congressmen, senators, and president are on the case!
I hear Enron used P2P.
Tom Delay uses P2P
Saddam had P2P
YAAAAAAAAAARRR!!!!!!! I like to steal music off the internet, rape and pilage towns and eat babies!!!!!! Good God give me a break! I agree with the 1st post........such a small population, what a bunch of crap! Nice one RIAA why don't roll around in some more of your money and throw it elsewhere.......morons.
LM
I find it quite funny that this article says "Canadians illegally download 14 music CDs or other files from the Internet for every file they take from the web legally". You hit Google.com and that's two files right there! Opps, I guess I just illegally downloaded 28 CDs? Something is a little fishy there.
I find that piracy reference offensive. I am a Space Pirate and a member in good standing of the Pirate's Union. Calling stealing songs off the Internet as piracy, gives us pirates a bad name. Call it a five finger discount or something else.
I don't hijack, I commandeer, I don't steal, I borrow, I don't loot, I find. Sometimes I have to pursaude people with a sword or gun, but they actually give me things after I threaten their lives.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
If the only people using P2P to download music would go to a store and shoplift the CD anyway, the RIAA must be saving money since they are no longer making CD's for these criminals
" Environics polled just over 1,000 Canadians aged 18 or over by telephone, and another 1,043 Canadians on-line in May, 2005." Let me get this straight: not only do these statistically challenged morons insult me by making a broad generalization because of something I do legally (downloading music), but they are also the people who bother me with unsolicited phone calls when I have dinner? The Globe and Mail is a great newspaper and I find that it really lowered the quality/relevance bar down to the very bottom by writing a story about that "survey". I mean, that is like encouraging stupidity and prejudice!
Could it be that shoplifters and cheaters are more likely to use P2P?
Pirates are more likely to have eye patches, peg legs and parrots.
People who steal music are pirates.
Therefore people who steal music are more likely to have eye patches, peg legs and parrots.
It should be easy to catch these music traders, just look for eye patches and listen for "ARRRRRRGGGHHHHH, matey"
Dear RIAA/MPAA/whoever;
Please, please, PLEASE, let me pay you money? Won't you, just? This once?
I want to watch Battlestar Galactica (the new series). It's awesome. I love it. But, you won't let me.
I want to pay you 100% of every cent you would earn for my individual viewership of this program. From advertisers. Plus, what you would earn from your distribution agreements with the TV/Cable/Satellite networks. Plus, what you would earn from syndication. Plus, what you would earn from DVD distribution. For MY INDIVIDUAL viewership.
But, you don't want my money. You don't even give me the choice to give you my money, because you simply, arbitrarily, choose not to distribute Battlestar Galactica (or whatever) here in Canada.
So, what am I supposed to do? Wait around, quivering with excitement, with bated breath, for you to decide to belch and toss me a scrap from your groaning table?
No, sir. You simply cancel good shows (such as Firefly), to produce garbage (such as whatever show Paris Hilton, et. al. might show up on). You produce garbage music, and then to add insult to injury, pay the artist beholden to you $0.15 for a $20 CD. And, you don't produce good artists, at all. And, you prevent them from every showing up in record stores, by forcing these stores into restrictive agreements.
Should I not be insulted, by this behavior? Should I not find other avenues to watch/hear what I want?
Sincerely, Thank you.
Your adoring public.
-- -pjk Perry Kundert perry@kundert.ca http://kundert.2y.net
Or, to say in another way: If you shoplift and/or cheat at exams, odds are you download music.
j pg
This story really reminds me of this: http://www.insidemacgames.com/images/machall_4_l.
I think that they made a correct relationship, but in the wrong way... I think that cheaters and shoplifters are more likely to P2P, not the other way around...but of course this would totaly defeat their argument, so why would they even mention that?
In canada, we pay x cents per cd to the music indutry regardless of what the cd is used for. It is also legal to copy any cd you can get your grubby shoplifitng hands on.
See the real problem is that there is absolutely no proof of CAUSATION. They would like us to believe that because someone is morally corrupt they illegally download music and also participate in other more reprehensible acts. What they have shown is a CORRELATION. There may be data (although I doubt the validity) showing that people who download music also steal and/or cheat more often than your average person.
HOWEVER the big problem is that they may have NOTHING to do with each other. This may be a trend only because more young people download music and you generally don't see a lot of middle class 40 somethings cheating in school or shoplifting. They specifically mention in the article that illegal downloading is most common amongst people under the age of 24 and no mention is made at all on how they compare rates of shoplifting or cheating.
As someone who works in science I am constantly amazed at the number of studies that people gete all worked up over that show basic lame CORRELATIONS without and hint at CAUSATION. I bet you could find that people who illegally download music also are more likely to thing that skateboarding is cool. Does that mean that somehow illegal music downloading is linked to skating? No it most likely means that old people that have enough money to buy music (unlike Johnny highschool who get $20 a week for lunch... which by the way is only slightly less than the price of a CD).
So before I get to "ranty" I just hate people that show correlation and then get written up as if they have shown causation.
Those most likely to use P2P are teenagers, who are also the most likely to cheat/shoplift/smoke/cut school/pierce things/color their hair/wear odd clothes/ and oh... right, be typical teenagers.
Presidents of associations who lie to the public in order to craft public opinion are more likely to cheat on their taxes, spouses, and significant others.
They also are more likely to have small penises, bad breath, and no sense of fashion.
This is all included in the recently released report "Recording industry heads are lying douchebags, an unbiased look at the music industry".
Until LPs, musicians made money by performing and working hard. With the recording industry, remixed singles got some lip-syncing, manufactured bands very rich. It was good while it lasted, but is it really unfair if musicians have to go back to performing?
I'd assume that they are more likely to purchase petroleum jelly and Doritos too... where are the corporations that benefit from these types of people? Surely someone is making money from this target market.
something should be here besides this dumb message
I've taken virtually every drug that's available in Europe, with the exceptions of Qat and Ajahuasca. (Crystal meth and PCP are pretty much unknown over here.) But I've been a recreational user of hash, grass, skunk, hash oil, amphetamine sulphate, cocaine (powder), cocaine (rocks - smoked), Lysergic Acid (blotters and microdots), Dimethyl Tryptamine, ketamine, allegedly Mexican magic mushrooms, methadone and diamorphine, I live a relatively clean and sober life. Except when I get rat-arsed on a Friday night, of course, but that's neither here nor there. Despite this shameful lifestyle of seedy deals on rainy streetcorners or stinking pub toilets, and my slow struggle to kick the Microsoft habit - (I'm not using any Microsoft software at all! How long? Just for today!) - despite all this, I still have NEVER knowingly infringed copyright by downloading films or music from the Internets. And when I feel the bitch monkey's clammy paws on the back of my neck once again, and I realise that once more my good intentions are worthless and that I'm trapped in a slow, inexorable decline into ruined physical, mental and spiritual health - I can still draw a crumb of comfort from the thought that somewhere out there, people are still prepared to take money from the **AA to put their name to some mendacious, disgusting attempt to drag music lovers and film fans down to their own level. We are all of us in the gutter, but some of us are holding swimming contests in pools of cold puke and piss. That'll be the Pigopolists.
"I guess using a "CD burner" is illegal, even if at least 95% of new home PC have that as a standard feature. "
I thought in Canada they pay a royalty on their CD media to cover licensing fees for artists? So isn't this whole survey kind of a moot point in Canada?
"If file swappers are so profficient at all this theft and cheating, music execs must be pretty worried about their job-security."
n quiry.asp?userid=CX0abEHCEV&isbn=0679730613&itm=1
You know, that could be true...
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/BookSearch/isbnI
uR iGn0ranc3, Their Power
Ever seen that anti-piracy ad that says:
You wouldn't steal from a store, from your parents, etc, etc
but you'll illegally download...
Now if we have studies saying the KaZaA freaks also steal in real life, that stupid commercial will have to be trashed.
Unfortunately it will probably be replaced by an ad that's even worse.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
are you now and have you ever been a communist and do you belong to the democratic party ...what a bunch of crap . its just like microsofts tco studies ...they ae demonizing people who use or thought to use p2p technology
People who are willing to admit that they use P2P software are also more likely to admit that they may/have shoplifted or cheated. What's interesting is that someone paid money for this study - it's actually rather disturbing that it's assumed by the industry that people aren't being taught basic logic. This is probably much scarier than we know - at what point do we see businesses trying to influence what we're taught to make us better consumers?
"Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes." --Henry David Thoreau
They found that 0% of those who infringe upon copyrights online and are in the 18-24 demographic are out on the high seas, committing piracy.
;-)
This is why they chose not to present that statistic
It is incorrect to say correlation implies causation, in general (coming from a stat major).
For example, there is a likely a correlation between how many hours I sleep in a day and how many hours you sleep in a day. That doesn't imply that me sleeping causes you to sleep, however.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
there is a connection between pirates and global warming.
While I don't condone academic cheating, some professors are so unreasonable in their assignments that the outcome is inevitable. (In my experience most of the proffesors giving unreasonable assignments also didn't grade on a curve and weren't just trying to push us to do more than we thought we could.) The result was groups of friends working together quietly, breaking the programming down into sections that each got working, then everyone would share. I don't know if the professors knew about it or not but most of the TAs did and didn't really care. Now in classes where assignments were reasonable, even if they were difficult and pushed our boundaries, the TAs cared about cheating a lot and punished those who cheated quite drastically.
I think part of the problem may be that many of the professors who give unreasonable assignments are used to dealing with graduate students and graduate classes where assignments are tougher (and expected to be by any realistic grad student.) They don't want to teach undergrad courses but end up being forced to and they either take out their frustration on the students or just don't bother taking into consideration that most undergrads aren't ready for graduate level work.
Then you have the professors who are absolute geniuses, and always have been. They end up teaching 100 level courses and do a horrible job simply because they've never been at that level, or if they were it didn't take them long to get past it. Basically they're almost incapable of teaching the basics because to them the basics are just common sense and everyone should have born knowing them. Most of these professors will listen if you talk to them though and will do all they can to help. I had one like this and I went to talk to him (amusingly about 8-9 friends from the class tagged along since they'd heard I was going but they all just stood around and let me do the talking, thanks guys!). He was quite receptive to what I had to say and he did make changes that helped tremendously. In the end the students were able to learn the course material, the professor learned how to teach at that level better and those of us involved in talking to him learned that at least some professors will listen to what you have to say and act on it. :) (For the record in this particular class the entire class failed to score above a 50 on the first test. We were given the test again as an open-book, open-note test and the highest score went up to only 60. The professor had let one of the TAs make out the test and for whatever reason they made it so that even graduate students would have been hard-pressed to pass it. Said TA lost their assistantship and the CS department refused to allow them to be a TA in any course ever again. I think they finally got a GRA instead.)
Gave the caller shit for interupting their newly DLed Metalica CD...
Not only does music file-swapping harm artists, but it also points to an erosion of respect for intellectual property that threatens Canada's economy and values at the core of our society,'
Values?
Society?
Economy?
None of these terms apply to the Canada I know...
I use P2P, but I don't cheat at school just on my girlfriend. Thanks to this article I now know why I do. Thanks Napster, Kazaa, WinMX for making me a cheater!!
Great - I guess I'd say that executives are more likely to be convicted monopolists.
Lets get real - the younger the generation, the more likely they are to be downloading music. The younger the generation, the more likely they are to experiment with shoplifting, drugs, or many other foolish things. The two factors are not causal.
The CRIA are the same asses who lost in the Federal Court and the Federal Court of Appeals - and their case was less than pathetic.
For the record - it is absolutely legal to download music in Canada. (There only dispute as to whether leaving music available for downloading by others consititues distribution - which could be in violation of the Copyright Act, but this has yet to be litigated, and the obiter dicta comments of the Federal Court judge would indicate that even this is legal)
The whole article is pure poppycock, for the very simple reason that music uploading/downloading on a p2p network is **LEGAL** in Canada!!!
>>> ...copyright holders drink harder and do more cocaine...
And it follows that if P2P were stamped out and revenues to copyright holders increased as a result, we'd see more copyright holders dying from overdoses and committing more serious crimes because of their increased access to dangerous chemicals.
'Save an Artist, burn an MP3!'
If 'the people' in Amendment 2 are 'the state' then Amendments 1, 2, 4, 9, and 10 benefit the state, not you.
Think about it. File sharer's share the wealth to all memembers of the group. Does that sound like any other group?
We must wipe out this new red scare. Before these people start, dare I say it, thinking freely and comming up with new ideas and thoughts.
"Does your computer have IP on it?"
If the RIAA can fund studies that make questionable statistics like this (what is in the article), maybe I should throw around some bullshit myself...
How about "Statistics show that if you listen to or read anything from the MPAA, RIAA, CRIA, BSA, ARIA, ETC executives without being objectional, or researching it further, you get dumber by at least 20%."
If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
maybe 70% people in age group 35-50 drink tea compared to world average of 52%.
52% in age group 35-50 accepted taking bribes at some point of time compared to average of 17%.
this suggests those who drink tea are more likely to take bribes...
like spearheading the RIAA?
I know my personal reason to obey the law, is more fear of punishment than any moral sence of right or wrong, if I could steal, and get away with it, I would, kill w/o rem,osre too if it was allowed, though I think dueling between between concenting adults should also not be punishible by law...
My conclusion at the time: people with little schooling, when faced with how to allocate resources in a trade system with others, reinvent capitalism, thus capitalism is a natural form of economic exchange. It may not be the fairest, but it is a tool that can be rediscovered like the wheel or fire. Whether it is evil is a completely separate issue as to whether someone evil uses it or whether other systems are better or fair.
We assume shoplifting is evil (and even this could be argued is only a societal convention that makes economic exchange easier for fair players) so anything a shoplifter does outside of shoplifting in disproportionate amount to the rest of society is evil. Granted it makes the same like-like mistake that many appeals to emotion do when trying to win an argument. Trouble is this kind of argument tends to be very effective with the general public.
Society has gotten used to receiving information/entertainment for free for years. In the past storage and exchange were hard and the business model of advertising fit well. Even the content we paid for could be freely exchanged/traded/given away with no problems. Your local library likely carries hundreds of DVD movies as well as the normal repository of books.
Electronic exchange merely makes easier that which in the past was essentially legal. The trouble is when I trade a DVD there is only copy of course. When I rip the DVD and put it on the internet then I am violating copyright. Now if everyone agreed not do that, the RIAA would have no problem, but it is just too tempting a case of having your cake and eating it too. It can be rationalize to some extent that an electronic copying isn't stealing because it cost the manufacturer and distributor no money to replace the media that was pilfered -- the only thing lost is potential sales. Of course if everyone copied, it would be silly to say that there is no cost to the content provider. Of course it is equally ridiculous to count every copy as an actual theft since not every copy would have a one to one effect on sales.
The solution being avoided by all content providers is the migration to a new business model. While I would like to see this migration occur I can understand why the industry is reluctant, that is the "industry" as a marketing and distribution engine would largely disappear and their jobs and profits with it. Online content could be sponsored by paying individuals or supported by ads. By trying to charge everyone for online content you will only keep the same motivations for copying. Now it may be true that free content won't have the revenue stream to support the production of $100+ million dollar movies. So what? Suddenly there is impetus is to make content the public will watch but on much smaller budgets - fewer car crashes, fewer explosions, smaller top star salaries, but there will still be movies. I doubt that quality overall would go down, but if it did, so what? Watch the classics. The money people spend on entertainment could be spent vastly better in other areas. It has never been the entertainment industry's credo to bring us a better product at a lower price. This rapacious appetite for continually expanding profits in the entertainment industry is a driving force behind the explosion of online sharing.
You might argue the Bittorent copy of your Must-See-TV has no commercials in it, so how could an advertising model work? It has no ads because there is no direct high quality original f
Letter To Iran
"If X made better movies\music\games then maybe I'd consider buying them" "Why should I pay for something that I might not like" "X Company has enough money anyway, what difference would it make if I downloaded it"
I know kids who regularly steal CDs\DVDs from stores because they know that even if they get caught by the security guard they just confiscate what they've taken and rarely call the police. The internet just makes it easier for more people to do it for free.
>> suggests that those who download music online are also likely to
>> cheat at schools/universities and to shoplift.
In related news, those people who are human have a high likely hood of shoplifting, stealing, and cheating.
music - http://www.subatomicglue.com
>> suggests that those who download music online are also likely to
>> cheat at schools/universities and to shoplift.
In related news, those people who are human have a high likely hood of shoplifting, stealing, and cheating.
music - http://www.subatomicglue.com
"Repeat after me: Correlation does not imply causation."
That's why we shouldn't believe all those "P2P increases sales" studies then.*
*If you can't prove harm, then you can't prove benefit either.
From TFA:
a) "Canadians between 12 and 24 years of age are responsible for 78 per cent of illegal music downloading, even though they make up only 21 per cent of the population, it says."
b) "Nearly 27 per cent of younger people surveyed said they would consider cheating on a test or exam, compared with 10 per cent of the general population."
c) "Of those asked, 6 per cent of younger Canadians said they would leave a store without paying for a piece of clothing, compared with 2 per cent of the population at large."
and, as we all know, a+b+c=
d) "Canadians between the ages of 18 and 29 are much more willing than other age groups to make illegal copies of software programs, cheat on exams or even shoplift, an Environics poll suggests."
Okay. Besides that b) is ludicrously insignificant for reasons already mentioned, all of them lean on the assumption that if you say you would do something, you're more likely to do it, as opposed to lying about it and hiding your motives. Because people always tell survey people the truth.
Furthermore, without challenging the numbers they've come up with, they argue that because young people account for 78 percent of illegal music downloading, and that 27 percent of younger people surveyed said they would consider cheating on a test, that somehow that 78% and 27% have an overlap of 100%.
Riight. Care to buy a bridge? Prices are rock bottom right now, and it's a great solid asset as a hedge against inflation!
its true, us P2P downloaders also club baby seals and are probably responsible for global warming
Study shows that P2P user are likely to be Gay !
If the values are shit, you must acquit. ;-)
I'd just like to say "FUCK OFF".
Thanks, I feel better now.
Kewl article... must be written by contract for the RIAA to whine a snivel for their inability to put out music that people WANT TO BUY vice karaoke crap.
OMG - when will the children learn - feel sorry for the artists that sold their souls and are now pimped by big daddy RIAA
Hey, I breath air... so I must addicted to cow farts
Once upon a time, a soon to be mommy and daddy loved each other very much (the lust was strong as well as the drinks)
For completely the same reasons. School is ludicrous these days, from dated over priced texts that are often highly politicized to career educators who care very little about education, to curriculums that are dated and unnecessary for any of the possible future careers....Hell yeah I'm gonna cheat in school. School is bullshit. The RIAA, MPAA corporate watchdog group du jour wants people to pay $20 a disk for crap that is so formulaic and boring that I can't remember the difference between any of it. Nickle back, creed, staind, I don't even know the difference between these bands because they are all crap, and hip hop is even worse. If SOMEHOW some artist puts out one song I like, I'll just download it, fuck you very much. Don't even get me started on movies, and movie theater price gouging! Oh, and most movies out today also suck big time,and are formulaic, and there is very little "art" at all any more to any of it. As for shoplifting, well, I saw Wal Mart and K Mart and Mervyns and Nordstroms come in to a small town and destroy small businesses where people made a living replacing them with below subsistance living jobs and dreary lack of choices and crappy asian slave made clothes and other junk that falls apart. Steal from them? FUCK YEAH!
So the statistics are that our generation is tired of the bullshit and will fight back at every turn by refusing to adhere to dated versions of "right and wrong". I mean, these corporations enslave 11 year olds in the third world for less than a bowl of rice a day, and then sell the garment it cost them 12 cents to make AND SHIP over here for $50? Who's the bad guy, them or me for shop lifting it? How the fuck am I more reprehensible than they are? I'll be honest, the "right thing" to do is not even go into the store, which is what I *try* to do and still live my life, but if I do go into the store, I'll be damned if they're going to get more than a few pennies of my money, no matter what it is that I actually wanted in the store.
rhY
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
In a related study, people in the 60 - 100 age group play golf about 1.36 times more often than the average rate. The study also discovered that this age group was far more likely to die than any other agegroup.
It is insane that we are talking about music and profits when there are millions of people right now out there golfing themselves to death.
Canada's economy would BOOM if TFA acted independently, not as a media stooge.
1) There is no iTune's server/infrastructure in Canada, or China etc. That means jobs/money flowing out from those countries = damaging local communities/ trade imbalance.
2) While on IP, lets not forget making vistitors 'criminals' if they fill a cross-border prescription.
3) Made a 'criminal' for a 'fully paid up' Satellite subscription.
4) Canada's economy does benefit from P2P 'leakage' - money stays in the community - especially free indie and BSD downloads.
5) The TIA must giggle as Canadians make their sortie over the border to 'stock up' with USA imports, because of a distorted price model that is not set for Canada's benefit.
6) The TIA has not yet been investigated as to why iTunes like agreements cannot be struck in Canada.
Canada is enforcing IP, taxing media, and doing nothing about illegal trade restraint on softwood, lumber etc. Pray it does not target indiscretions of cigarette and IP/media companies. Companies that have shredders, and use them, are less than lilly white.
Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That's spacious reasoning, Dad. Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?
[Homer thinks of this, then pulls out some money]
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.
"Yes. I don't think anyone was saying that using p2p causes people to buy music online..."
They was saying that P2P usage was causing people to purchase more music. And we're not talking "just" about that survey, but all the others that have been posted over the years. Any flaws (correlation/causation) in those surveys are summarily ignored. Unless of course those surveys are negative (read as against the slashdot party line). Then we dissect them.
What were the exact questions?
There was some worry at one point that my mom was hitting me. She wasn't, but the chosen questions were bad.
"Does it hurt when mommy hits you with a stick?" "Yes"
My father didn't like that question. So he asked-
"Does it hurt when *person who was initially questioning me* hits you with a stick?" "Yes"
Basically, if you ask the right questions, you can get pretty much any answer you want. Especially when the party commisioning the survey has a clear interest in what the results are, it is important to know what was actually asked to judge the surveys credibility.
ok 1 woot they listed me generically atleast and 2 the riaa paid for the study... umm... thats the equivlent to saying its our opinion that these things happen and no one wants to steal or cheat so this will help our case
When the laws are unjust or unreasonable -- or bought and paid for -- people, rightly, lose respect for the law.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
thanks for the extended reply. Since rhetoric and logic are not taught in school any more it seems that these public focused forums are the only place to dissect the irrational arguments using the standardized but neglected tools of debate. I sound like a prig and a dweeb, but that's the price one pays for demanding clear rational thought.
Keep up the good work.
On a more serious note, where does someone sign up to conduct these moronic kind of studies? I'm sure that a lot of /.'ers could use the extra cash. Especially if they're throwing it out for studies like this.