Yup, The Amiga was fully capable of Tron-eqsue graphics. Way back, before I was an Imagine Jockey, I re-created the flying two-legged ship thingys in DPaint III of all places. I would "render" each facet of the ship's body using DPaint's 'Move' command. It was tiring work! I was so happy to discover real 3D rendering! "You mean I don't have to render each polygon separetely! What will they think of next!!"
I also remember the 8-player tron-motorcycle game that was released for the Amiga as freeware. Man, those were some fun times.
The movie industry is under siege from a small community of professors who argue (1) that broadband access to the Internet will never gain consumer acceptance without movies legitimately being made available on the Net and (2) that producers deliberately are holding back the exhibition of movies on the Net because of -- in the words of Lawrence Lessig ["Who's Holding Back Broadband," op-ed, Jan. 8] -- "the threat the Net presents to their relatively comfortable way of doing business." Add to this (3) the accusation that copyright owners are stifling innovation in the digital world.
The first claim is true: The great omission in digital downloads is the lack of legitimate movie availability. Text is mainly what the Net offers. A recent survey revealed that 68 percent of all home computer users say they're satisfied with their normal 56K computer modem. It can download pretty much all that's on the Net, as not much (legal) material is out there that's chock full of graphics and in a consumer-friendly format to create the need for a cable modem or a digital subscriber line (DSL).
Ooou, 68 percent of people who HAVE 56K modems are satisified with them....well that's probably why they have them! If they weren't satisified, they would get broadband. The remaining 32pecent probably live where they can't get broadband. And has claim that only illegal material is large is pure fabrication and opinion.
The second professorial indictment is palpable nonsense. It is a charge issued only by those who have a blurred knowledge of the financial fragility of the film industry. Because making movies is so expensive, only two in 10 films ever retrieve their production and marketing investment from domestic theatrical exhibition. Distributors have to use other venues -- delivery systems such as cable, satellite, TV stations, videocassettes, DVDs, international markets. Every producer yearns to use the Internet as a new delivery system to speed movies to consumers' homes for rent or sale, at fair, reasonable prices. Any producer who chooses to reject Internet exhibition is a fiscal lunatic.
Interesting. It's nonsense that producers wouldn't want to be online...yet they're not online? Explain that one to me...oh yes, because we don't legislation forcing all computer and manufacturers to the whim of Jack Valenti. Your arguument is spurious. You fail to address the fact that movie companies are keeping their movies offline. Guilty as charged.
According to the Boston-based consulting firm Viant, some 350,000-plus films are being downloaded illegally every day. Some are still in theatrical exhibition when they are illegitimately recorded, mostly by those who use state-of-the-art university broadband systems. Those who don't have broadband but find it beguiling to download movies free simply start their computers whirring at bedtime, and when they wake in the morning they have a movie. Free -- and illegally.
As time moves forward, information will be replicated into infinity. Deal with it.
The reason pitifully few films are legitimately available on the Internet is not producer hoarding. It is that those valuable creative works can't be adequately protected from theft. The analog format (videocassettes) and the digital format (DVDs) are different. Videocassette piracy costs the movie industry worldwide more than $3.5 billion, even though the sixth or seventh copy of analog becomes unwatchable. But the thousandth copy of digital is as pure as the original. Moreover, digital movies on the Internet can be pilfered and hurled at the speed of light to any spot on the planet. This is what gives movie producers so many Maalox moments.
Poppycock. I'm sure your "we're losing 3.5 billion dollars to VHS piracy!!!" rests on the SPA assumption that everytime sone one pirates, they would have paid for it. As far as digital copies remaining the same, apparently no one has told Jack that DIVX is a far, far, far cry from MPEG2 DVD (they only way I copy & store my DVDs).
What's keeping the movie industry from making its creativity theft-proof? Simply put, in order to transport movies as agreed to by the consumer on a rent, buy or pay-per-view basis with heightened security, computers and video devices must be prepared to react to instructions embedded in the film. Other ingredients are necessary to protect digital content, but it gets too complex to explain in a few sentences. At this moment, that kind of interaction is nowhere to be found in any computer or set-top box. Some security is available, but it is porous. The movie industry is, however, consulting with the finest brains in the digital world to try to find the answer.
Boo hoo hoo, it's all Congress and the PC industry fault! Nothing to see here, move along. Can't blame the movie industry, nope. Not their fault movies aren't online. Uh-huh. Sure.
As for the third charge -- that copyrighted movies are destroying digital innovation -- what the critics mean by "innovation" is legalizing the breaking of protection codes, without which there is no protection.
Silly strar-man arguement. I'm sure that when scientists claim the movie industry is holding back inovation, they were ONLY talking about cracking codes. Perhaps they were talking about the movie industries harrassing of competing P2P, distribution, pay-per-view, compression and related "digital movie" technologies, all of which Jack and co have no interest in because they can't controll it 100%. And they'll sue you over it too. Jerk.
Movie producers are eager to populate the Net with movies in a
consumer-friendly format(emphasis added). There is a way to achieve adequate security for high-value movies on the Net. Computer and video-device companies need to sit at the table with the movie industry. Together, in good-faith talks, they must agree on the ingredients for creating strong protection for copyrighted films and then swiftly implement that agreement to make it an Internet reality. Without concord, one option is left: Congress must step in to protect valuable creative works on the Net and thereby benefit consumers by giving them another choice for movie viewing.
Since when is restricting fair-use, first-sale doctrine and free-speech "consumer friendly." I think you meant "consumer limiting." The rest of this paragraph is you and your pipe dream.
In the Polotical-lobyist forum, it takes money and time to encourage the direction of government.
On a discussion forum, the cost in money moves to zero and the people with the most time & people resources will be the "vocal minority."
That is until someone creates the ultimate discussion-bot that analyzes and attacks every oppossing message methodically and quickly. Kind of like P.R. flaks but smarter and you don't have to pay them.
The sheer amount of comments, interest in the case and outdated dead-tree publishing philosophy of the Federal Registar has got me thinking.
Perhaps it is time for the Government to create, adopt or otherwise standadize a system to allow registered voters to discuss and debate on current issues and policies.
Something like Slashdot, but the people who run the show would be our elected politicans instead of our current dictatorship:-)
My letter was a 3 page diatribe against Microsoft which most certainly could be summed up in "I Hate Microsoft." I don't think I even mentioned the Settlement until the end:-P
Oh well, hopefully this settlement will be rejected and we all get another chance!
Must remember to talk about the settlement, must remember to talk about the settlement......
The first thing is to re-read any contract that beta testers signed. You did have them sign an NDA, didn't you? That should at least keep him quite.
As far as rights, he has none. There is no employment agreement. Even if there was one, the company owns all. He may think you own him one, but he's wrong. Let him get a lawyer to prove otherwise.
Yes, HDs are cheap and a dime a dozen but upgrading the RAM on my current system would be a little pricey. My Amiga has a GVP accelerator and thus needs the properitary GVP RAM (though it is possible to connect 72(?)pin SIMMs via an ugly hack). I will most likely wait to upgrade the RAM for a PPC card which typically take industry standard SIMMs.
Ever try finding the old ZIPs chips the Amiga 3000 took? Whoo-wee. Believe me, old RAM is not twenty cents to the 10 megs.
you paid a HUNDRED BUCKS for an AMIGA 1200? are you insane? that thing only cost 400 when it was new, and that was 10 years ago. WOW
Calm down boy! Listen, I offered him $250 for his Amiga and would have happily paid it. Look, here's an Amiga 1200 with similiar stats going for $275 [ebay.com]. Plus, I received FULL ORIGINAL (disks & manuals) copies of great Amiga software, DPaint IV, Imagine 2.0, ImageFX1.5, AMOS Pro, FinalCopy, PageWrite, games, games, games, etc...
You're obviously used to the PC used market where the value of the computer drops 75% when you open the box. That's because they're a "commodity." 10 year-old Amigas have value because, like I said, they won't die and people still want them.
I for one will enjoy what I paid $100 for and with what I will undoubtably drop another $500 into.
Amiga = the computer that won't die. Just to drive home an dprove that point, I just purchased an Amiga 1200 from an old friend for $100. Amiga 1200 with EC040/50, 10megs of RAM, couple gigs of HD spread over 5 HDs, SCSI PCMCIA... I've been shopping around second-hand computer shops looking for a giant PC tower case to move it into. I hope to eventially pick up a PPC + graphics board, install WB 3.9 (has super-pimped/hacked 3.0 right now with most to all of the features of 3.5).
Ahhh the memories. While the Amiga was left behind in the speed wars a long time ago (I forgot how long it takes a simple JPEG image to load!) For ease of use and simple hackability, there never was any competition.
My name is John Holmes Dean III and I am a 25 year old computer engineer. I have been programming since I was ten on a wide variety of computers; Apple IIe, Commodore Amiga, Macintoshes and IBM-PCs. The purpose of this letter is to highlight the technical inefficiencies of early Microsoft software and come to the conclusion that given a level playing field, no informed consumer would pick Microsoft's products based on quality. I will then talk about the time that Microsoft took over one hundred dollars from me in exchange for nothing in a move that stifled competition in a education setting (similar to the settlement Microsoft has currently proposed).
Between the years of 1987 and 1996, I was an active user and programmer of Commodore Amigas. The Amiga, which never achieved more than a low single-digit market share, occupies an interesting niche in computer history. Released in 1985 (one year after the ubiquitous Macintosh) to great fanfare, the Amiga was the first true "multimedia" computer. At a time when PCs had EGA (16 colors) and Macintoshes were black & white, the Amiga was capable of 4096 colors on screen. The Amiga had 4 channel 8-bit digital stereo sound when the PC had internal speakers and the Macintosh had 1 channel. The Commodore Amiga shipped with Workbench 1.0 which was a pre-emptive multitasking, graphical user interface operating system.
I spent my teenage years engrossed with my Amiga. Because Workbench could do pre-emptive multitasking (a form of running multiple programs where the operating system gives and takes processor time away from the individual programs), I would commonly use my computer to download files over my modem, listen to digital music files and play games at the same time. During this time, Microsoft's flagship operating system was Windows 3.X. Windows 3.X used a form of multitasking called cooperative multitasking. Each program had the responsibility to relinquish control of the processor to the next program. Cooperative multitasking is the same form of multitasking used on Macintoshes before Mac OS X and is considered an inferior method. It was hard to impossible to get multiple program to run correctly at the same time on early version of windows. When it was possible, the systems requirements were far greater. Windows 95 had a limited form of pre-emptive multitasking that was a mix between pre-emptive and cooperative. Windows uses a single letter for drive names. Windows uses the 8.3 naming convention. Windows, to this day, can not really name a file more than 8 letters long. "Long" file names are stored in the "information" field, which no longer exists, obviously. Windows 3.X involved 3 steps to make a disk or CD-ROM appear on the screen, whereas you only had to stick the disk in on the Amiga/Macintosh to have it appear on the screen. Windows 95 and greater still requires one step because after you insert a floppy or CD-ROM, you must still double-click on 'My Computer' to see it. 'Plug-n-Pray' is a term used to describe Microsoft's 'Plug-n-Play' system. The DOS command line was inferior to Workbench's CLI (Workbench had a command line as well) because you couldn't copy and paste. there was no history and no command pipe. I can nit-pick forever when it comes to Windows, however I will admit that most of Window's problems are related to its MS-DOS ancestry and the many, many shortcomings of the IBM-PC architecture.
My other hobby was being a "troll." In internet terminology, a troll posts highly controversial statements to illicit as much feedback as possible (called "feeding the troll"). The term troll had not yet been invented, but I took great pleasure in posting messages to IBM-PC and Microsoft electronic bulletin board systems explaining how inferior IBM-PCs and Microsoft Windows really was. I would of course receive tens if not hundreds of responses, all of which I would respond to-- beginning debates which would last for years. I convinced no less than a dozen people of the truth, all of which purchased Amigas and some of which are still life-long friends.
To this day, I have not purchased Microsoft software with one exception. When I was earning my Electrical Engineering degree at the University of Texas, Microsoft signed a deal with the University to provide copies of Microsoft software at $5 a CD. The cost to the university was 100 million dollars which was added to each student's "Computer Fees." In that respect, Microsoft stole nearly $25 a semester from me for five semesters so that I could have the honor of buying Microsoft software for $5 a CD. I hated and despised this move by Microsoft because Microsoft knew that this was the only way to get a college student like me to pay for their software in the first place. Furthermore, because students could get Microsoft Visual Studio for $25 (5 CDs) all programming classes began using Visual Studio because other compilers such as Borland and Metrowerks (where I can currently employed) could no longer compete, even with student pricing. I watched the programming classes at UT go from Metrowerks only to Visual Studio only in the course of two years.
Microsoft's settlement will allow Microsoft to achieve the same goal in the secondary and high school education market. By giving out Microsoft software for free, students will learn and become accustomed to Microsoft software and not made aware of the alternatives. The proposed Microsoft settlement amounts to nothing more than an exclusive advertisement contract between education and Microsoft.
In conclusion, I have personally seen the negative effects of Microsoft and IBM-PCs on the computer market. Microsoft took ten years to produce a product that (almost) met the capabilities of Workbench. Furthermore, Microsoft signed a deal that forced me to give them money just to continue my education. I now work for a Microsoft competitor where I will do my part to bring the giant down. I hope the Department of Justice does theirs.
I work at a 400-strong hardware and software company. We are required to undergo 40 hrs of training on company time.
Sounds good, untill you learn that about 12-15 hrs of it will get sucked up by "training" that amounts to nothing more than company propaganda & brainwashing, touchy-feely & get in-touch-with-your-personality type sessions.
What a waste of time. I made a big stink last year because when they made it "official" that everyone had to have 40 hrs of training, that meant they had a big system in place for tracking what training you have done. So what if you read a book, the time-honored way or learning new material? I made a stink and I can now get an 8 hr credit for reading (by my own word) a technical book.
What's the point? Our company does do training, but we have too many HR-types managing the system for it to be truely effecient worthwhile. ---------------------------
The defense lawyer was NOT ALLOWED to enter the evidence he wished to enter. keith was not able to talk about why he was picketing or the policies of practive of the Church (i.e. fair game, "hatting" a Scientology witness, destroying critics "utterly and without sorrow").
Speaking of the last point, Hubbard is quote as saying:
"There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 [
antagonism] down on the tone scale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the tone scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow."
L. Ron Hubbard, Science of Survival
Now, Keith said the following in the USENET post:
The only way I can get clear of this scientology mess is to "destroy them utterly." So: This week I will be back picketing gold base.
You see, Keith was just quoting Scientology scripture. Any critic would have immediately "got" the joke. However, Scientology was able to act like their own scripture was coming out of Keith's mouth and try him on that. Furthermore, KEITH WAS NOT ALLOWED TO SAY WHERE THAT QUOTE CAME FROM!!!! The defense was under strict rules that none of Scientology's internal practices or even the name of the church he was picketing could be entered into evidence.
Scientology's abuse of the court system is scary. Remember people, these are the people who scared Slashdot with litigation. Not even Microsoft could do that!!!!!
---------------------------
The defense lawyer was NOT ALLOWED to enter the evidence he wished to enter. keith was not able to talk about why he was picketing or the policies of practive of the Church (i.e. fair game, "hatting" a Scientology witness, destroying critics "utterly and without sorrow").
Speaking of the last point, Hubbard is quote as saying:
"There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 [
antagonism] down on the tone scale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the tone scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow."
L. Ron Hubbard, Science of Survival
Now, Keith said the following in the USENET post:
The only way I can get clear of this scientology mess is to "destroy them utterly." So: This week I will be back picketing gold base.
You see, Keith was just quoting Scientology scripture. Any critic would have immediately "got" the joke. However, Scientology was able to act like their own scripture was coming out of Keith's mouth and try him on that. Furthermore, KEITH WAS NOT ALLOWED TO SAY WHERE THAT QUOTE CAME FROM!!!! The defense was under strict rules that none of Scientology's internal practices or even the name of the church he was picketing could be entered into evidence.
Scientology's abuse of the court system is scary. Remember people, these are the people who scared Slashdot with litigation. Not even Microsoft could do that!!!!!
---------------------------
Senior Year of high school. I was a honor student who was involved with the Academic Decathalon, a football player, on the track team, the editor of the school's TV news program and founding officer of the Computer Club.
We have two parking lots in our school. One close to the school (got to get there early) and one further away. I ALWAYS park at the close parking lot (because I always got to school early to hang with my friends, play magic and bull shit about computers). However, I went to a Pantera concert the night before, got in later than usual and parked in the far away parking lot.
Well, wouldn't you know it, that was they day they decided to let drug-sniffing dogs scour the parking lot. However, they only did the far away praking lot (I guess they figured drug users don't get to school early). I was called out of class in the morning and asked to report to my car. I had a pretty decent idea of why they might be interested in my car.
I get there and I'm asked to consent to a search and am told that if I don't consent they'll get a search warrant. I consent. I'm asked to unlock the car so a plain-clothes policewoman can search my car. Knowing that I had a bag of weed and a small bong under the driver's seat, I open the passanger-side door. The polie officer searchs the car including under every seat except the driver seat. She finds a stem, two seeds and a mostly burnt paper with resin on it. I am told to wait in the principals office.
I wait outside her office for 4 hours, in plain view of everyone walking by in between classes. Fun, I tell you. I finally get into the office and I am told that they found drugs in my car and that the school is a zero-tolerance school and the evidence will be turned over to the police for prosecution. I was also on indenfinte suspension from that moment. My parents were called and told the same. I was sent home. My parents yelled and screamed at me for a half hour or so and then sent me to my room (or I left, I don't remember). At this time I typed a letter on my Amiga explaining the reasons that it is fucked up that I would every have to go to jail. I said I didn't want to go to jail and it would be better if I were dead. I then swallowed three 30 count bottles of Tylenol PM (painkiller + sleep pill) and a bottle of something else.
I ate dinner with my parents. I had to go to the Senior Musical practice that night. I tried to get out of it but they insisted. I felt pretty drunk by the time I arrived. I fell alseep in the seats of the theatre before practice. Practice had started and at somepoint a teacher woke me up and said I didn't look to good. I said I didn't feel to good and thought I should go home. I remember vomiting outside the school.
I don't remember this part but was filled in on it later. I went to the school parking lot and fell asleep next to a light pole. Someone in my class was driving by, saw and recognized me. he drove up and got me into the car. He knew where I lived (I lived a mile away from the school) or I told him, but he got my home and helped me inside. I went to sleep on the living room couch.
I remember this part. My parents were away but they came back soon after. They asked what I was doing home early from practice. From this point on, I spoke completely in non-sensical sentences. I knew what I was saying didn't make a lick of sense (I was speaking stream-of-conscious annd my conscious was really fucked up) but I was still trying to act "normal." It was a losing battle. My parent's were convinced I was on some "heavy drugs" because I was, after all a "drug user." I had only smoked pot previosuly (ok, ok, I dropped acid a couple times too). I was sent to me room.
All I wanted to do was sleep. My mother came back up to my room and started asking "what did you take?" "Did you take anything at the concert?" She was convinced I had taken something at the concert and was having a flashback or it took a while to hit (24 hours!). To get her to shut up so I could get back to sleep, I told her that I took all of those pills (pointing to 4 empty bottles of pills).
That was a bad idea! She made me get up and go to the hospital! It was totally crowded, but she just went to the reg desk and slapped down 4 empty bottles of pills and said "he took those." I was brought back immediately.
I started vomiting everywhere, including all over a nurse (sorry!). They made me drink charcoal and pushed a tube up my nose and gave me IV. Since, by this time, it had been proably 3 or 4 hours since I took the pills, I ingested alot of it and there wasn't a whole lot they could except to put hook me up to all the monitors (critical condition!) They told my parents that there is a good chance I would die.
Well, luckily I didn't. I was released the next day. My kidneys went into shock and I had to take some medication for that.
So, I had a meeting with the principal and some pyschs the next Tuesday. I think they found out about the suicide on Monday. When I came in, I was now told that I would not be suspended or expelled, the police would not be involved and I would have to do is go to forced Psych sessions and "group therapy."
The only thing good about the Psych sessions was the Psych liked to play Civilization, so we spent the whole time exchanging stratagies. Group Therapy was weird. Those were people who did some hardcore shit.
Everyone except for one girl and one guy who they found an oz+ of weed had no disciplanory action taken against them. Too this day, I'm convinced it's because of my attempted suicide. I guess they didn't want one of their best students to have killed themselves over a few branches and seeds found in their car.
In the end, the suicide was one of the best things I ever did. I began a 100% turn around on my personality. I used to be a depressed and loathsome individual. I did alot of soul-searching and becamse much happier and certainly no longer suicidal. I finished highschool, finished college, and now work as an electrical engineer.
What greater good is being fullfilled if I were to have been expelled or gone to jail because I smoked pot? My being caught didn't cause me to stop either. Though I am not currently smoking right now, I smoked on and off all through college (only stopping 3 months before internships for drug tests).
Anyway, same story, different law.
Oh yeah, I had hacked into the dstrict computer shortly after that. But that was only because the Psych's office had the phone number and his username to the district computer in his office. My friend guessed his password, it was money! (Thanks Jim!) ---------------------------
Well ya got me, it I wouldn't have been working on actual ISS hardware, but the hardware that was used to simulate actual ISS hardware. The simulation hardware, from what I understood, was all written on 386s in assembly. This was for low-level networking code. ---------------------------
I intervewied at Boeing for doing Space Station networking work.....here's the surprising part, the Space Station is all run off of 386s!!! They do most of the low level programming in assembly to squueze out as much performance as possible.
It totally blew my mind. This was about 14 months ago. ---------------------------
I managed to be on both sides of the fence.
on
Sean In The Middle
·
· Score: 1
I was a card-carrying computer nerd when i was in highschool ('90 to '95). Furthermore, I was a rabid Amiga users, which (in my mind, anyway) placed me well above PC users. Not only that, I was directly responsible for aprox. 12 students buying Amigas, and being introduced into computers (who then later went off to be computer artists, video editors, electrical engineer, etc..). I was also VP and founding officer of the Computer Club (and hated enemy of the head Comp Sci teacher because I kept showing her up...with the Amiga).
At the same time, I played Football (until my Junior year), partied and hung out with the jocks and stoners.
Oh yeah, I also played Magic and was an honor student.
If anything, I ended up tormenting other nerds (PC users) with my Amiga. I then turned around and tormented jocks because I was sooooo much smarter than they were.
Ah, did I mention I'm 6ft, 280 lbs and was able to bench (almost) that much (back then, I hate to see how I'd do know, though I am down to 255 lbs).
I found it real interesting, because I was aware of the fact that I was straddling two different cliches.
Though, by-and-large, it was the jocks I disliked the most. I didn't like the way they treated women (though I have to admit some jealousy), they were mean (even as a Football player I didn't get into a single fight during highschool) and furthermore, they were stupid (not all of them). I can give you just as many sob stories about my jock friends as I can success stories about my Amiga nerd friends. One landed in jail for robbing a Jack-in-the-Box at gunpoint. Another had a few kids, dropped out of Community College and left the mother of his children for another woman, etc, etc...
Anyway, some random musings. It surprised me to hear all of the negativity people experienced as computer nerds, because I mostly avoided one way or another. Now, what I did with the administrators of our school (Clear Lake Highschool) is another story.....strictly a love/hate/hate/hate relationship. ---------------------------
First off, it's not "built-in." The copy-control you are talking about is the DTCP (Digital Tranmission Content Protection) and was created by a consortium of five companies, Intel, Sony, Matsushita, Hitachi and Toshiba. Notice how Apple's not there (sidenote: Apple voted AGAINST the CRMP ATA spec while Intel voted for it).
A company (for example, DVD-CCA) could create a way to transmit digital data over fireware while having it protected. There is nothing stopping anybody from doing the same thing with USB. It's all encryption and proprietary drivers.
On a positive note, it will only be through a technology such as this that will EVER allow us to have firewire-enabled DVD players. The most important thing is to get the stupid port on it. We can hack it later. The MPAA has said 'NO' to DVDs with digital outputs. It will be a sad, sad day if DVDs come with USB2.0 over FireWire. ---------------------------
Ah yes, well you could probably add a Voodoo card to the Amiga to help boost the framerate. The fps I was quoting is all from software-based rendering. I don't know what you had in '95, but my experience tells me that '95 computers (P1 166Mhz??) cannot do 800x600 at 30fps. But I digress.
Now that we're starting to see eye to eye. I've conceded that modern PCs kick modern Amiga's asses. You've conceded that classic Amigas kicked classic PC's ass. Perhaps now you can concede that the whole world standardizing on Bill Gate's wet dream has put the world of personal computer development back 10 years. Specifically in the areas of GUI, multitasking and multimedia performance. This is what I was trying to say when I said this:
Yes, and MS finally met the Amiga's performance some ten years after the Amiga was released. Ooooh, ooh, I can connect to other computers, listen to music and play games at the same time! Neat-- for 1985. I'm just glad they finally caught up to the rest of the industry. *yawn*
By "...[meeting] the Amiga's performance" I mean having a decent OS and the hardware catching up. The rest of the statement was mostly me trolling. I spent my entire highschool career logging onto PC BBSes and starting huge PC-religious flame wars. It was so much fun. And I always won (from my viewpoint anyway). I don't have a leg to stand on anymore (moved from Amigas to Mac when my 3000 died in '96) against PCs because, like you said, they finally got the momentum of 100,000 engineers working on improving the Wintel design. The most amazing part (to me, anyway) is that I should be able to take a program written for a 1979 IBM-PC 8086 and RUN IT. If anything, that's one of the most amazing things about PCs.
P.S. if you want to see a graphics demo I wrote for the Amiga (on a stock '86 Amiga500 w/ extra 512K ram and 105M HD) in AMOS (a basic/pascal hydrid language for the Amiga), please see http://ieee.ece.utexas.edu/~john/multimedia/Strobe II.mov. My Amiga HD crashed (multiple times even) so I've lost everything. However, I entered this demo in a contest, won and still have the VHS tape. ---------------------------
Well, to be technically acurate, 1985 only saw the release of the Amiga 1000. It wasn't untill late '86 that the 500 and 2000 were released. Though these still are not the best amigas released, the 500 can be upgraded to a 50Mhz 68040 and the Amiga 2000 can go all the way to a G3 PowerPC (though it wasn't untill the Amiga 3000 that saw 32-bit expansion busses). AmigaQuake won't run on the old OCS/ECS graphic chipsets-- you'll either need an AGA chipset ('89) or a graphics card. Finally, you'll need a SCSI port, harddrive and extra memory for the 500 and a CD-ROM to load the game. The 2000 will need some extra RAM as well.
At this point, you can run AmigaQuake. From my own personal experience, I'd say the 500 would pull about 4fps at 320x240 and the 2000 perhaps 8 or 9 (w/ an 060) or 10-15 with a PowerPC board. An Amiga 3000, 1200 or 4000 w/PowerPC will close in on 24fps.
Cheap? HELL NO. However, a '86 Amiga CAN DO IT.
Now, do you think an '86 x86 computer can do it? I went ahead and checked. Compaq released a 16Mhz 386 in '86. Probably had EGA graphics (VGA if you bought an expansion card) and an ISA bus. Do you think an '86 PC can run Quake? Or how about a pre-emptive multitasking OS with a GUI and a CLI (Command Line Interface)? Or how about displaying 4096 colors on screen while listening to a mod and running a BBS at the same time?
Listen, I agree with you when you say that PCs won. That much is obvious. But believe me, they SUCKED SO HARD FOR SO LONG. Like I said, I'm glad they caught up, finally. ---------------------------
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Yup, The Amiga was fully capable of Tron-eqsue graphics. Way back, before I was an Imagine Jockey, I re-created the flying two-legged ship thingys in DPaint III of all places. I would "render" each facet of the ship's body using DPaint's 'Move' command. It was tiring work! I was so happy to discover real 3D rendering! "You mean I don't have to render each polygon separetely! What will they think of next!!"
I also remember the 8-player tron-motorcycle game that was released for the Amiga as freeware. Man, those were some fun times.
Interesting. It's nonsense that producers wouldn't want to be online...yet they're not online? Explain that one to me...oh yes, because we don't legislation forcing all computer and manufacturers to the whim of Jack Valenti. Your arguument is spurious. You fail to address the fact that movie companies are keeping their movies offline. Guilty as charged.
As time moves forward, information will be replicated into infinity. Deal with it.
Poppycock. I'm sure your "we're losing 3.5 billion dollars to VHS piracy!!!" rests on the SPA assumption that everytime sone one pirates, they would have paid for it. As far as digital copies remaining the same, apparently no one has told Jack that DIVX is a far, far, far cry from MPEG2 DVD (they only way I copy & store my DVDs).
Boo hoo hoo, it's all Congress and the PC industry fault! Nothing to see here, move along. Can't blame the movie industry, nope. Not their fault movies aren't online. Uh-huh. Sure.
Silly strar-man arguement. I'm sure that when scientists claim the movie industry is holding back inovation, they were ONLY talking about cracking codes. Perhaps they were talking about the movie industries harrassing of competing P2P, distribution, pay-per-view, compression and related "digital movie" technologies, all of which Jack and co have no interest in because they can't controll it 100%. And they'll sue you over it too. Jerk.
Since when is restricting fair-use, first-sale doctrine and free-speech "consumer friendly." I think you meant "consumer limiting." The rest of this paragraph is you and your pipe dream.
What's on USENET TV these days?
In the Polotical-lobyist forum, it takes money and time to encourage the direction of government.
On a discussion forum, the cost in money moves to zero and the people with the most time & people resources will be the "vocal minority."
That is until someone creates the ultimate discussion-bot that analyzes and attacks every oppossing message methodically and quickly. Kind of like P.R. flaks but smarter and you don't have to pay them.
The sheer amount of comments, interest in the case and outdated dead-tree publishing philosophy of the Federal Registar has got me thinking.
:-)
Perhaps it is time for the Government to create, adopt or otherwise standadize a system to allow registered voters to discuss and debate on current issues and policies.
Something like Slashdot, but the people who run the show would be our elected politicans instead of our current dictatorship
I believe your number are wrong. 15,000 people against the Settlement and 7,500 Slashdot trolls for it.
My letter was a 3 page diatribe against Microsoft which most certainly could be summed up in "I Hate Microsoft." I don't think I even mentioned the Settlement until the end :-P
Oh well, hopefully this settlement will be rejected and we all get another chance!
Must remember to talk about the settlement, must remember to talk about the settlement......
Considering that's more comments than the all front page Slashdot stories combined see, I'd say it's not too shabby.
Clearly, it shows the Government, Microsoft and the world and the people are against the Microsoft Settlement.
IANAL, and that's who you should be talking to.
The first thing is to re-read any contract that beta testers signed. You did have them sign an NDA, didn't you? That should at least keep him quite.
As far as rights, he has none. There is no employment agreement. Even if there was one, the company owns all. He may think you own him one, but he's wrong. Let him get a lawyer to prove otherwise.
Yes, HDs are cheap and a dime a dozen but upgrading the RAM on my current system would be a little pricey. My Amiga has a GVP accelerator and thus needs the properitary GVP RAM (though it is possible to connect 72(?)pin SIMMs via an ugly hack). I will most likely wait to upgrade the RAM for a PPC card which typically take industry standard SIMMs.
Ever try finding the old ZIPs chips the Amiga 3000 took? Whoo-wee. Believe me, old RAM is not twenty cents to the 10 megs.
You're obviously used to the PC used market where the value of the computer drops 75% when you open the box. That's because they're a "commodity." 10 year-old Amigas have value because, like I said, they won't die and people still want them.
I for one will enjoy what I paid $100 for and with what I will undoubtably drop another $500 into.
Amiga = the computer that won't die. Just to drive home an dprove that point, I just purchased an Amiga 1200 from an old friend for $100. Amiga 1200 with EC040/50, 10megs of RAM, couple gigs of HD spread over 5 HDs, SCSI PCMCIA... I've been shopping around second-hand computer shops looking for a giant PC tower case to move it into. I hope to eventially pick up a PPC + graphics board, install WB 3.9 (has super-pimped/hacked 3.0 right now with most to all of the features of 3.5).
Ahhh the memories. While the Amiga was left behind in the speed wars a long time ago (I forgot how long it takes a simple JPEG image to load!) For ease of use and simple hackability, there never was any competition.
Long live the Amiga! May she never rest in peace!
My name is John Holmes Dean III and I am a 25 year old computer engineer. I have been programming since I was ten on a wide variety of computers; Apple IIe, Commodore Amiga, Macintoshes and IBM-PCs. The purpose of this letter is to highlight the technical inefficiencies of early Microsoft software and come to the conclusion that given a level playing field, no informed consumer would pick Microsoft's products based on quality. I will then talk about the time that Microsoft took over one hundred dollars from me in exchange for nothing in a move that stifled competition in a education setting (similar to the settlement Microsoft has currently proposed).
Between the years of 1987 and 1996, I was an active user and programmer of Commodore Amigas. The Amiga, which never achieved more than a low single-digit market share, occupies an interesting niche in computer history. Released in 1985 (one year after the ubiquitous Macintosh) to great fanfare, the Amiga was the first true "multimedia" computer. At a time when PCs had EGA (16 colors) and Macintoshes were black & white, the Amiga was capable of 4096 colors on screen. The Amiga had 4 channel 8-bit digital stereo sound when the PC had internal speakers and the Macintosh had 1 channel. The Commodore Amiga shipped with Workbench 1.0 which was a pre-emptive multitasking, graphical user interface operating system.
I spent my teenage years engrossed with my Amiga. Because Workbench could do pre-emptive multitasking (a form of running multiple programs where the operating system gives and takes processor time away from the individual programs), I would commonly use my computer to download files over my modem, listen to digital music files and play games at the same time. During this time, Microsoft's flagship operating system was Windows 3.X. Windows 3.X used a form of multitasking called cooperative multitasking. Each program had the responsibility to relinquish control of the processor to the next program. Cooperative multitasking is the same form of multitasking used on Macintoshes before Mac OS X and is considered an inferior method. It was hard to impossible to get multiple program to run correctly at the same time on early version of windows. When it was possible, the systems requirements were far greater. Windows 95 had a limited form of pre-emptive multitasking that was a mix between pre-emptive and cooperative. Windows uses a single letter for drive names. Windows uses the 8.3 naming convention. Windows, to this day, can not really name a file more than 8 letters long. "Long" file names are stored in the "information" field, which no longer exists, obviously. Windows 3.X involved 3 steps to make a disk or CD-ROM appear on the screen, whereas you only had to stick the disk in on the Amiga/Macintosh to have it appear on the screen. Windows 95 and greater still requires one step because after you insert a floppy or CD-ROM, you must still double-click on 'My Computer' to see it. 'Plug-n-Pray' is a term used to describe Microsoft's 'Plug-n-Play' system. The DOS command line was inferior to Workbench's CLI (Workbench had a command line as well) because you couldn't copy and paste. there was no history and no command pipe. I can nit-pick forever when it comes to Windows, however I will admit that most of Window's problems are related to its MS-DOS ancestry and the many, many shortcomings of the IBM-PC architecture.
My other hobby was being a "troll." In internet terminology, a troll posts highly controversial statements to illicit as much feedback as possible (called "feeding the troll"). The term troll had not yet been invented, but I took great pleasure in posting messages to IBM-PC and Microsoft electronic bulletin board systems explaining how inferior IBM-PCs and Microsoft Windows really was. I would of course receive tens if not hundreds of responses, all of which I would respond to-- beginning debates which would last for years. I convinced no less than a dozen people of the truth, all of which purchased Amigas and some of which are still life-long friends.
To this day, I have not purchased Microsoft software with one exception. When I was earning my Electrical Engineering degree at the University of Texas, Microsoft signed a deal with the University to provide copies of Microsoft software at $5 a CD. The cost to the university was 100 million dollars which was added to each student's "Computer Fees." In that respect, Microsoft stole nearly $25 a semester from me for five semesters so that I could have the honor of buying Microsoft software for $5 a CD. I hated and despised this move by Microsoft because Microsoft knew that this was the only way to get a college student like me to pay for their software in the first place. Furthermore, because students could get Microsoft Visual Studio for $25 (5 CDs) all programming classes began using Visual Studio because other compilers such as Borland and Metrowerks (where I can currently employed) could no longer compete, even with student pricing. I watched the programming classes at UT go from Metrowerks only to Visual Studio only in the course of two years.
Microsoft's settlement will allow Microsoft to achieve the same goal in the secondary and high school education market. By giving out Microsoft software for free, students will learn and become accustomed to Microsoft software and not made aware of the alternatives. The proposed Microsoft settlement amounts to nothing more than an exclusive advertisement contract between education and Microsoft.
In conclusion, I have personally seen the negative effects of Microsoft and IBM-PCs on the computer market. Microsoft took ten years to produce a product that (almost) met the capabilities of Workbench. Furthermore, Microsoft signed a deal that forced me to give them money just to continue my education. I now work for a Microsoft competitor where I will do my part to bring the giant down. I hope the Department of Justice does theirs.
John Holmes Dean III
Tell that to Dr. Feldon. He cracked the SDMI watermarks from their contest and was then threatened when he was to present the paper.
I remeber back in the day when Wil was practically a spokesperson for NewTek and the Video Toaster. What ever happened to all of your Amigas Wil?
I work at a 400-strong hardware and software company. We are required to undergo 40 hrs of training on company time.
Sounds good, untill you learn that about 12-15 hrs of it will get sucked up by "training" that amounts to nothing more than company propaganda & brainwashing, touchy-feely & get in-touch-with-your-personality type sessions.
What a waste of time. I made a big stink last year because when they made it "official" that everyone had to have 40 hrs of training, that meant they had a big system in place for tracking what training you have done. So what if you read a book, the time-honored way or learning new material? I made a stink and I can now get an 8 hr credit for reading (by my own word) a technical book.
What's the point? Our company does do training, but we have too many HR-types managing the system for it to be truely effecient worthwhile.
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Speaking of the last point, Hubbard is quote as saying:
L. Ron Hubbard, Science of Survival
Now, Keith said the following in the USENET post:
You see, Keith was just quoting Scientology scripture. Any critic would have immediately "got" the joke. However, Scientology was able to act like their own scripture was coming out of Keith's mouth and try him on that. Furthermore, KEITH WAS NOT ALLOWED TO SAY WHERE THAT QUOTE CAME FROM!!!! The defense was under strict rules that none of Scientology's internal practices or even the name of the church he was picketing could be entered into evidence.
Scientology's abuse of the court system is scary. Remember people, these are the people who scared Slashdot with litigation. Not even Microsoft could do that!!!!!
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Speaking of the last point, Hubbard is quote as saying:
L. Ron Hubbard, Science of Survival
Now, Keith said the following in the USENET post:
You see, Keith was just quoting Scientology scripture. Any critic would have immediately "got" the joke. However, Scientology was able to act like their own scripture was coming out of Keith's mouth and try him on that. Furthermore, KEITH WAS NOT ALLOWED TO SAY WHERE THAT QUOTE CAME FROM!!!! The defense was under strict rules that none of Scientology's internal practices or even the name of the church he was picketing could be entered into evidence.
Scientology's abuse of the court system is scary. Remember people, these are the people who scared Slashdot with litigation. Not even Microsoft could do that!!!!!
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Senior Year of high school. I was a honor student who was involved with the Academic Decathalon, a football player, on the track team, the editor of the school's TV news program and founding officer of the Computer Club.
We have two parking lots in our school. One close to the school (got to get there early) and one further away. I ALWAYS park at the close parking lot (because I always got to school early to hang with my friends, play magic and bull shit about computers). However, I went to a Pantera concert the night before, got in later than usual and parked in the far away parking lot.
Well, wouldn't you know it, that was they day they decided to let drug-sniffing dogs scour the parking lot. However, they only did the far away praking lot (I guess they figured drug users don't get to school early). I was called out of class in the morning and asked to report to my car. I had a pretty decent idea of why they might be interested in my car.
I get there and I'm asked to consent to a search and am told that if I don't consent they'll get a search warrant. I consent. I'm asked to unlock the car so a plain-clothes policewoman can search my car. Knowing that I had a bag of weed and a small bong under the driver's seat, I open the passanger-side door. The polie officer searchs the car including under every seat except the driver seat. She finds a stem, two seeds and a mostly burnt paper with resin on it. I am told to wait in the principals office.
I wait outside her office for 4 hours, in plain view of everyone walking by in between classes. Fun, I tell you. I finally get into the office and I am told that they found drugs in my car and that the school is a zero-tolerance school and the evidence will be turned over to the police for prosecution. I was also on indenfinte suspension from that moment. My parents were called and told the same. I was sent home. My parents yelled and screamed at me for a half hour or so and then sent me to my room (or I left, I don't remember). At this time I typed a letter on my Amiga explaining the reasons that it is fucked up that I would every have to go to jail. I said I didn't want to go to jail and it would be better if I were dead. I then swallowed three 30 count bottles of Tylenol PM (painkiller + sleep pill) and a bottle of something else.
I ate dinner with my parents. I had to go to the Senior Musical practice that night. I tried to get out of it but they insisted. I felt pretty drunk by the time I arrived. I fell alseep in the seats of the theatre before practice. Practice had started and at somepoint a teacher woke me up and said I didn't look to good. I said I didn't feel to good and thought I should go home. I remember vomiting outside the school.
I don't remember this part but was filled in on it later. I went to the school parking lot and fell asleep next to a light pole. Someone in my class was driving by, saw and recognized me. he drove up and got me into the car. He knew where I lived (I lived a mile away from the school) or I told him, but he got my home and helped me inside. I went to sleep on the living room couch.
I remember this part. My parents were away but they came back soon after. They asked what I was doing home early from practice. From this point on, I spoke completely in non-sensical sentences. I knew what I was saying didn't make a lick of sense (I was speaking stream-of-conscious annd my conscious was really fucked up) but I was still trying to act "normal." It was a losing battle. My parent's were convinced I was on some "heavy drugs" because I was, after all a "drug user." I had only smoked pot previosuly (ok, ok, I dropped acid a couple times too). I was sent to me room.
All I wanted to do was sleep. My mother came back up to my room and started asking "what did you take?" "Did you take anything at the concert?" She was convinced I had taken something at the concert and was having a flashback or it took a while to hit (24 hours!). To get her to shut up so I could get back to sleep, I told her that I took all of those pills (pointing to 4 empty bottles of pills).
That was a bad idea! She made me get up and go to the hospital! It was totally crowded, but she just went to the reg desk and slapped down 4 empty bottles of pills and said "he took those." I was brought back immediately.
I started vomiting everywhere, including all over a nurse (sorry!). They made me drink charcoal and pushed a tube up my nose and gave me IV. Since, by this time, it had been proably 3 or 4 hours since I took the pills, I ingested alot of it and there wasn't a whole lot they could except to put hook me up to all the monitors (critical condition!) They told my parents that there is a good chance I would die.
Well, luckily I didn't. I was released the next day. My kidneys went into shock and I had to take some medication for that.
So, I had a meeting with the principal and some pyschs the next Tuesday. I think they found out about the suicide on Monday. When I came in, I was now told that I would not be suspended or expelled, the police would not be involved and I would have to do is go to forced Psych sessions and "group therapy."
The only thing good about the Psych sessions was the Psych liked to play Civilization, so we spent the whole time exchanging stratagies. Group Therapy was weird. Those were people who did some hardcore shit.
Everyone except for one girl and one guy who they found an oz+ of weed had no disciplanory action taken against them. Too this day, I'm convinced it's because of my attempted suicide. I guess they didn't want one of their best students to have killed themselves over a few branches and seeds found in their car.
In the end, the suicide was one of the best things I ever did. I began a 100% turn around on my personality. I used to be a depressed and loathsome individual. I did alot of soul-searching and becamse much happier and certainly no longer suicidal. I finished highschool, finished college, and now work as an electrical engineer.
What greater good is being fullfilled if I were to have been expelled or gone to jail because I smoked pot? My being caught didn't cause me to stop either. Though I am not currently smoking right now, I smoked on and off all through college (only stopping 3 months before internships for drug tests).
Anyway, same story, different law.
Oh yeah, I had hacked into the dstrict computer shortly after that. But that was only because the Psych's office had the phone number and his username to the district computer in his office. My friend guessed his password, it was money! (Thanks Jim!)
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Well ya got me, it I wouldn't have been working on actual ISS hardware, but the hardware that was used to simulate actual ISS hardware. The simulation hardware, from what I understood, was all written on 386s in assembly. This was for low-level networking code.
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I intervewied at Boeing for doing Space Station networking work.....here's the surprising part, the Space Station is all run off of 386s!!! They do most of the low level programming in assembly to squueze out as much performance as possible.
It totally blew my mind. This was about 14 months ago.
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I was a card-carrying computer nerd when i was in highschool ('90 to '95). Furthermore, I was a rabid Amiga users, which (in my mind, anyway) placed me well above PC users. Not only that, I was directly responsible for aprox. 12 students buying Amigas, and being introduced into computers (who then later went off to be computer artists, video editors, electrical engineer, etc..). I was also VP and founding officer of the Computer Club (and hated enemy of the head Comp Sci teacher because I kept showing her up...with the Amiga).
At the same time, I played Football (until my Junior year), partied and hung out with the jocks and stoners.
Oh yeah, I also played Magic and was an honor student.
If anything, I ended up tormenting other nerds (PC users) with my Amiga. I then turned around and tormented jocks because I was sooooo much smarter than they were.
Ah, did I mention I'm 6ft, 280 lbs and was able to bench (almost) that much (back then, I hate to see how I'd do know, though I am down to 255 lbs).
I found it real interesting, because I was aware of the fact that I was straddling two different cliches.
Though, by-and-large, it was the jocks I disliked the most. I didn't like the way they treated women (though I have to admit some jealousy), they were mean (even as a Football player I didn't get into a single fight during highschool) and furthermore, they were stupid (not all of them). I can give you just as many sob stories about my jock friends as I can success stories about my Amiga nerd friends. One landed in jail for robbing a Jack-in-the-Box at gunpoint. Another had a few kids, dropped out of Community College and left the mother of his children for another woman, etc, etc...
Anyway, some random musings. It surprised me to hear all of the negativity people experienced as computer nerds, because I mostly avoided one way or another. Now, what I did with the administrators of our school (Clear Lake Highschool) is another story.....strictly a love/hate/hate/hate relationship.
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First off, it's not "built-in." The copy-control you are talking about is the DTCP (Digital Tranmission Content Protection) and was created by a consortium of five companies, Intel, Sony, Matsushita, Hitachi and Toshiba. Notice how Apple's not there (sidenote: Apple voted AGAINST the CRMP ATA spec while Intel voted for it).
A company (for example, DVD-CCA) could create a way to transmit digital data over fireware while having it protected. There is nothing stopping anybody from doing the same thing with USB. It's all encryption and proprietary drivers.
On a positive note, it will only be through a technology such as this that will EVER allow us to have firewire-enabled DVD players. The most important thing is to get the stupid port on it. We can hack it later. The MPAA has said 'NO' to DVDs with digital outputs. It will be a sad, sad day if DVDs come with USB2.0 over FireWire.
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Now that we're starting to see eye to eye. I've conceded that modern PCs kick modern Amiga's asses. You've conceded that classic Amigas kicked classic PC's ass. Perhaps now you can concede that the whole world standardizing on Bill Gate's wet dream has put the world of personal computer development back 10 years. Specifically in the areas of GUI, multitasking and multimedia performance. This is what I was trying to say when I said this:
By "...[meeting] the Amiga's performance" I mean having a decent OS and the hardware catching up. The rest of the statement was mostly me trolling. I spent my entire highschool career logging onto PC BBSes and starting huge PC-religious flame wars. It was so much fun. And I always won (from my viewpoint anyway). I don't have a leg to stand on anymore (moved from Amigas to Mac when my 3000 died in '96) against PCs because, like you said, they finally got the momentum of 100,000 engineers working on improving the Wintel design. The most amazing part (to me, anyway) is that I should be able to take a program written for a 1979 IBM-PC 8086 and RUN IT. If anything, that's one of the most amazing things about PCs.
P.S. if you want to see a graphics demo I wrote for the Amiga (on a stock '86 Amiga500 w/ extra 512K ram and 105M HD) in AMOS (a basic/pascal hydrid language for the Amiga), please see http://ieee.ece.utexas.edu/~john/multimedia/Strob
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no, usually we wonder what took them so long.
It people like you who get to be bitter while the other kids have better toys.
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Well, to be technically acurate, 1985 only saw the release of the Amiga 1000. It wasn't untill late '86 that the 500 and 2000 were released. Though these still are not the best amigas released, the 500 can be upgraded to a 50Mhz 68040 and the Amiga 2000 can go all the way to a G3 PowerPC (though it wasn't untill the Amiga 3000 that saw 32-bit expansion busses). AmigaQuake won't run on the old OCS/ECS graphic chipsets-- you'll either need an AGA chipset ('89) or a graphics card. Finally, you'll need a SCSI port, harddrive and extra memory for the 500 and a CD-ROM to load the game. The 2000 will need some extra RAM as well.
At this point, you can run AmigaQuake. From my own personal experience, I'd say the 500 would pull about 4fps at 320x240 and the 2000 perhaps 8 or 9 (w/ an 060) or 10-15 with a PowerPC board. An Amiga 3000, 1200 or 4000 w/PowerPC will close in on 24fps.
Cheap? HELL NO. However, a '86 Amiga CAN DO IT.
Now, do you think an '86 x86 computer can do it? I went ahead and checked. Compaq released a 16Mhz 386 in '86. Probably had EGA graphics (VGA if you bought an expansion card) and an ISA bus. Do you think an '86 PC can run Quake? Or how about a pre-emptive multitasking OS with a GUI and a CLI (Command Line Interface)? Or how about displaying 4096 colors on screen while listening to a mod and running a BBS at the same time?
Listen, I agree with you when you say that PCs won. That much is obvious. But believe me, they SUCKED SO HARD FOR SO LONG. Like I said, I'm glad they caught up, finally.
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