If Amarok was so bad, why is it so popular? According to https://www.ohloh.net/p/amarok it has a rating of 4.5/5.0 and "High Activity" with 56 current contributors (400 overall; not even counting translations as they are in another repo (SVN not git)). That's a lot for only a music player.
I guess I wasn't clear. I've had "-semantic-desktop" set globally (in make.conf) all along. I dumped Amarok when it started insisting it wanted kedlibs(+semantic-desktop), and nepomuk (which I refuse to install) as well.
That's broken packaging on Gentoo's side. File a Gentoo bug report.
If Fedora "isn't stable enough for anything other then the desktop" then it's not stable enough for the desktop, either. I don't want free reboots on my desktop box while I'm trying to use it.
From my experience Fedora is about as stable as most Ubuntu releases with the distinct difference that Fedora actually gets updated throughout it life time.
Gnome had the right idea (merging tablet and desktop interfaces)
That's not the right idea. The right idea is to create a set of building blocks that can easily be assembled into very different UI paradigms without compromising the others. KDE's Plasma framework has already been used to create desktop, netbook, tablet, and mediacenter shells.
Chrome only uses GTK for minor stuff like the Open/Save window. The actual Chrome UI is written in Google's own Skia library, not GTK.
Re:I just started working on gnome
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The Last GUADEC?
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I just became the maintainer of a small games project in gnome and I have to say, the lack of (wo)manpower really shows.
Even tough I share the criticism here about GTK, your example does not really mean a lot. In many big FOSS projects small subprojects are driven by maybe just a single developer. It's exactly the same in striving projects like KDE which also has fringe subprojects like some games or screensavers. Heck, recently even two Calligra apps lost their maintainer and nobody could step in.
Re:They shot themselves in the foot
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The KDE philosophy may be fine IF you can throw more or less unlimited resources on it
Btw, funny how you attempt to prove "KDE philosophy" the Extragear application Digikam that is not even part of mainline KDE.
Re:They shot themselves in the foot
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It was an imminently practical response.
No. The GNU project had proper UI frameworks for years before KDE existed: Gnustep. However it had practically no support from any GNU member. It took KDE to enter the scene and the GNUs suddenly ran wildly around like headless chicken. So instead of deciding to use a proper frameworks set (Gnustep) they chose to chop an image editor apart and rip out its toolkit that was never designed to be a general purpose one.
Re:They shot themselves in the foot
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Whether the developers realize it or not, GIMP, Inkscape and Gnumeric will end up as Qt applications or they'll become irrelevant.
Doubt it. Contributors to OpenOffice/LibreOffice cope with its homegrown VCL toolkit since many years because it's easier than porting everything to Qt.
Re:They shot themselves in the foot
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Great. Then tell me of all the wonderful Qt applications people commonly use. I use GIMP, Inkscape, Gnumeric GTK+ applications quite frequently and have used zero Qt applications so far.
Common people use Skype, VLC, etc. and not Gnumeric.
They suck at it? Why? I've been following Vivaldi project since the beginning, and the project management seems nothing but excellent.
Excellent at producing vaporware. They announced the tablet (then called "Spark") 1.5 years ago and nothing ever shipped to consumers. Considering that Plasma Active runs on off-the-shelf hardware, their project management is hardly good....
A handful of KDE developers decided to found a startup together. Vivaldi is their personal for-profit project. And quite frankly: They suck at it. Plasma Active works just fine on quite a few Android tablets already (eg. Nexus 7). Since Win8 there are also quite a number of x86 tablets on the market. Plasma Active should also run on them with a regular Linux distribution.
The irony here is that Mir, which is is seen as a huge competitor to Wayland, could end up helping Wayland enourmously since Canonical doesn't seem to be afraid to pick up a phone and call people at AMD/Nvidia to talk about updating the drivers.
Take a minute or five and browse nvidia.com. What you'll discover is that for GPGPU business NVidia officially only supports the latest OS releases by three companies: MS Windows Server, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, and SUSE Linux Enterprise Server. What you won't find is official support for Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.
And while it's a pretty safe bet that RHEL 7 won't support Wayland (it's said to be based on Fedora 19), it's certain RHEL 8 will support it and NVidia will support RHEL 8. The chances are high that NVidia will "beta test" the drivers on Fedora before the RHEL 8 release.
What you are asking for is called Network Transparency. In Wayland and Mir it is being sacrificed for the sake of looking prettier.
If by "looking prettier" you mean anything more fancy than monochrome rectangles, then yes. However anything more fancy than monochrome rectangles isn't network transparent on X11 either. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44 for details.
And yet even though Wayland is backed by 'giants' like Intel and Red Hat, it still doesn't have more than $400,000 available to the project. Canonical has been dumping a lot more money into Mir.
I'm interested where you got those numbers from. I gave an extensive list of references, you gave none. Considering that Canonical is still losing money (see above), it may be very plausible that Shuttleworth will at some point stop "dumping a lot more money into Mir".
Soon these Desktops will need wayland. so they need to run wayland on Xmir to run Xfce. Have a lot of fun...
I don't see a real problem with just ending Xubuntu, Kubuntu, etc. Despite PR talk, Canonical is not interested in them. If Canonical was, Mir would not exist and Wayland would be used as originally planned. There are many fine Linux distributions that ship Xfce etc.
That makes no sense at all. If I understood the mail discussion between Mir devs and others correctly, the display manager would "just" need to both Wayland and Mir to switch between a Wayland and a Mir session without reboot. The problem is that nobody wants to add Wayland support to LightDM (Canonical is not interested and anybody else would be required to sign the CLA and hand over all rights to Canonical which nobody wants) and nobody (incl. Canonical) wants to add and maintain Mir support in the other display managers.
Slashdot Mirror
Please skip making a 3.11 version... just to avoid another flood of ".. for Workgroups" jokes.
Uneven version numbers are development releases. It's never been any different in Gnome.
Amarok never recovered after 2.0.
If Amarok was so bad, why is it so popular?
According to https://www.ohloh.net/p/amarok it has a rating of 4.5/5.0 and "High Activity" with 56 current contributors (400 overall; not even counting translations as they are in another repo (SVN not git)). That's a lot for only a music player.
I guess I wasn't clear. I've had "-semantic-desktop" set globally (in make.conf) all along. I dumped Amarok when it started insisting it wanted kedlibs(+semantic-desktop), and nepomuk (which I refuse to install) as well.
That's broken packaging on Gentoo's side. File a Gentoo bug report.
Yet another example how socialism fails.
You have a weird definition of socialism.
If Fedora "isn't stable enough for anything other then the desktop" then it's not stable enough for the desktop, either. I don't want free reboots on my desktop box while I'm trying to use it.
From my experience Fedora is about as stable as most Ubuntu releases with the distinct difference that Fedora actually gets updated throughout it life time.
So a Google subsidiary can't use Google's latest OS? Lame... I rather get a Nexus instead.
Gnome had the right idea (merging tablet and desktop interfaces)
That's not the right idea. The right idea is to create a set of building blocks that can easily be assembled into very different UI paradigms without compromising the others. KDE's Plasma framework has already been used to create desktop, netbook, tablet, and mediacenter shells.
How funny then that Chrome browser chose GTK....
Chrome only uses GTK for minor stuff like the Open/Save window. The actual Chrome UI is written in Google's own Skia library, not GTK.
I just became the maintainer of a small games project in gnome and I have to say, the lack of (wo)manpower really shows.
Even tough I share the criticism here about GTK, your example does not really mean a lot. In many big FOSS projects small subprojects are driven by maybe just a single developer. It's exactly the same in striving projects like KDE which also has fringe subprojects like some games or screensavers. Heck, recently even two Calligra apps lost their maintainer and nobody could step in.
The KDE philosophy may be fine IF you can throw more or less unlimited resources on it
"Will Stephenson from openSUSE giving a talk on how to make a more lightweight #KDE at #akademy2013 . KLyDE (the optimized version) has a memory footprint of only 119 MB!"
https://plus.google.com/106620870500514995860/posts/GuXFD4wqj3V
Btw, funny how you attempt to prove "KDE philosophy" the Extragear application Digikam that is not even part of mainline KDE.
It was an imminently practical response.
No. The GNU project had proper UI frameworks for years before KDE existed: Gnustep. However it had practically no support from any GNU member. It took KDE to enter the scene and the GNUs suddenly ran wildly around like headless chicken. So instead of deciding to use a proper frameworks set (Gnustep) they chose to chop an image editor apart and rip out its toolkit that was never designed to be a general purpose one.
Whether the developers realize it or not, GIMP, Inkscape and Gnumeric will end up as Qt applications or they'll become irrelevant.
Doubt it. Contributors to OpenOffice/LibreOffice cope with its homegrown VCL toolkit since many years because it's easier than porting everything to Qt.
Great. Then tell me of all the wonderful Qt applications people commonly use. I use GIMP, Inkscape, Gnumeric GTK+ applications quite frequently and have used zero Qt applications so far.
Common people use Skype, VLC, etc. and not Gnumeric.
Gnome sucks. Its a UI made not for normal users but for the designers imaginary friends.
Funny, I never liked the Gnome 2.x UI (which Xfce also mimics) but I like Gnome Shell a lot. I like it second best after Plasma Desktop.
They suck at it? Why? I've been following Vivaldi project since the beginning, and the project management seems nothing but excellent.
Excellent at producing vaporware. They announced the tablet (then called "Spark") 1.5 years ago and nothing ever shipped to consumers.
Considering that Plasma Active runs on off-the-shelf hardware, their project management is hardly good....
No, it's not a "KDE project", but it is a KDE tablet, i.e. a tablet running KDE.
Cool, then a Nexus 7 with Plasma Active is also a KDE tablet and my laptop is a KDE laptop, not a Samsung laptop...
http://www.muktware.com/5239/how-install-kde-plasma-active-nexus-7
A handful of KDE developers decided to found a startup together. Vivaldi is their personal for-profit project. And quite frankly: They suck at it.
Plasma Active works just fine on quite a few Android tablets already (eg. Nexus 7).
Since Win8 there are also quite a number of x86 tablets on the market. Plasma Active should also run on them with a regular Linux distribution.
The irony here is that Mir, which is is seen as a huge competitor to Wayland, could end up helping Wayland enourmously since Canonical doesn't seem to be afraid to pick up a phone and call people at AMD/Nvidia to talk about updating the drivers.
Take a minute or five and browse nvidia.com.
What you'll discover is that for GPGPU business NVidia officially only supports the latest OS releases by three companies: MS Windows Server, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, and SUSE Linux Enterprise Server.
What you won't find is official support for Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.
And while it's a pretty safe bet that RHEL 7 won't support Wayland (it's said to be based on Fedora 19), it's certain RHEL 8 will support it and NVidia will support RHEL 8. The chances are high that NVidia will "beta test" the drivers on Fedora before the RHEL 8 release.
What you are asking for is called Network Transparency. In Wayland and Mir it is being sacrificed for the sake of looking prettier.
If by "looking prettier" you mean anything more fancy than monochrome rectangles, then yes. However anything more fancy than monochrome rectangles isn't network transparent on X11 either. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44 for details.
AFAIK, RDP lets you see the entire remote screen, not the windows of a single program.
https://github.com/FreeRDP/FreeRDP/wiki/RemoteApp
And yet even though Wayland is backed by 'giants' like Intel and Red Hat, it still doesn't have more than $400,000 available to the project.
Canonical has been dumping a lot more money into Mir.
I'm interested where you got those numbers from. I gave an extensive list of references, you gave none.
Considering that Canonical is still losing money (see above), it may be very plausible that Shuttleworth will at some point stop "dumping a lot more money into Mir".
Soon these Desktops will need wayland. so they need to run wayland on Xmir to run Xfce. Have a lot of fun...
I don't see a real problem with just ending Xubuntu, Kubuntu, etc.
Despite PR talk, Canonical is not interested in them. If Canonical was, Mir would not exist and Wayland would be used as originally planned.
There are many fine Linux distributions that ship Xfce etc.
That makes no sense at all.
If I understood the mail discussion between Mir devs and others correctly, the display manager would "just" need to both Wayland and Mir to switch between a Wayland and a Mir session without reboot. The problem is that nobody wants to add Wayland support to LightDM (Canonical is not interested and anybody else would be required to sign the CLA and hand over all rights to Canonical which nobody wants) and nobody (incl. Canonical) wants to add and maintain Mir support in the other display managers.
What's outdated about X11? And no, the presence of old API calls for backwards compatibility does not make it outdated.
Answer: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=x_wayland_situation&num=1