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GNOME 3.10 Released
kthreadd writes "Version 3.10 of the GNOME software collection has been released. New in this release is improved support for Wayland, the upcoming X replacement. The system status menus have been consolidated into one single menu. Many of the applications in GNOME now features header bars instead of title bars, which merges the titlebar and toolbar into a single element and allows applications to offer more dynamic user interfaces. GNOME now also includes an application for searching, browsing and installing applications called Software. Several other new applications have also been added to GNOME including Music, Photos, Notes and Maps."
"GNOME now also includes an application for searching, browsing and installing applications called Software"
I had to read that like 4 or 5 times before it clicked that the name of the application is "Software"
Gnome 3 is not for me.
Sacred cows make the best burgers.
I tried a Preview of Fedora 20 (Alpha out now, pretty stable!)
and Im liking where this is heading.
Is it just me, or is GNOME picking a completely new default multimedia applications every other release or so? Why can't they run with something for a few years, for a change?
Integrating everything one way that powers on high say it should be done isn't why I run Linux.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
Gnome and KDE went through similar histories. The maintainers (for some unkown reason) decided they had to radically change their product - just as Ubuntu decided to introduce a totally new gui a few years ago. The verdict with Gnome is almost universal - the new Gnome (Gnome 3, which you have with Centos 6, unfortunately) stinks and isn't getting any better. Nevertheless, those who offer Gnome - e.g., Redhat, SUSE, others - offer only the latest version. Redhat has made it the default. Their motto is "just get used to it". But there is one hugely positive development: Mint decided to fork the old Gnome, Gnome 2. Mint offers 2 versions of Gnome 2: the Cinamon gui and the Mate gui (pronounced matey, a type of tea). I have no experience with Cinamon but love Mate. I am using it on my main computer. I noticed recently that Fedora also offers a Mate variant. My guess is that eventually most of the distros will; they will offer their main gui, whatever it is, plus Mate, XFCE, LXDE, etc. I am guessing that Gnome 3 will eventually go away.
KDE4 is like Gnome 3 but actually improved as it developed. One of its peculiarities is that it offers 5 (I think) different ways of laying out and using the desktop. One of them - called Folder View - makes it quite similar to the discontinued KDE3. I have instances of folder view KDE4 in my PCLinuxOS and Mepis setups, and like it. Be aware, however, that KDE3, like Gnome 2, has been forked. If you go to the Trinity Linux website you will find that there are people who have rejiggered Debian, Ubuntu, and PCLOS with the KDE3 gui. In fact, one of my partitions is running Debian Wheezy with KDE3. One of the best things about KDE4 is the Dolphin file manager which I have imported into all of my non-KDE setups. It is far, far superior to every other file manager, including the old Konqueror, which Trinity KDE3 still has.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Does the new Gnome have a FVWM mode, so I can use it without going postal?
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
Gnome for Workgroups!
I should rush to install Gnome 3.10 because... erm... I get a wayland "experiment", I get new weather forecasts where "tomorrow night" comes before "tomorrow afternoon", I get a panel which shows me all sorts of crap when I just want to change the volume, and I get a cheap icon of a Leica camera with the logo changed to "Like".
Oh, and I get a confusing mishmash of window decorations for different applications, just so that they can offer me a close button "even when the window is unmaximized". AND I can get automatic geolocation rubbish messing with my clock and reporting my location continuously.
Wow. Where do I sign up?
GNU/Linuxth? That'sth sthoooo lastht week.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
I understand some of the complaints. It get it. But, wow, Gnome is looking really good! It will be interesting to see how this new menu layout works. So far I haven't had any complaints in Gnome 3. I've been using Gnome everyday since it was initially released in the RedHat/Fedora distros. I've had more complaints with the bumps in the road with Fedora over the years than Gnome itself.
Because the Xorg developers say that the code base is rotten and that this is the right thing to do.
So in your alternate universe Mark Shuttleworth has a relationship with Gnome that is not only "friendly", but he actually has a say in what they do? Because in this universe, none of that is true.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
I wanted to hate it first. :(
Then fuck off and don't bother commenting on a thread you care nothing about. Every time Gnome Shell is mentioned on Slashdot swathes of you haters come in and say how you will stick with Gnome 2 or it's more loyal successor and then continue to visit every Gnome Shell thread to post more hate comments, it's Open Source for a fucking reason, you aren't being forced to use it there are alternatives, and there are are forks from gnome 2, I don't go into MATE threads and say how i hate that incredibly aged paradigm.... so FUCK OFF and don't come back unless you actually care about Gnome 3.
Please skip making a 3.11 version... just to avoid another flood of ".. for Workgroups" jokes.
WinAmp (except for an awkward period) still looks like it did fourteen years ago, and it's still whipping llama asses.
I'll pour a 40 out for my dead homie, XMMS - it was truly a worthy counterpart.
I realize it's passe in today's society to value fact, reason, and truth over feelings, impulse, and consensus, but it's still ok for people to state their opinions, whether they're using the product or not. Criticism should not be silenced for the sake of feelings. Frankly, gnome is just a collection of current design trends that are questionable at best, and that is the reason you see the commentary. The problem is bigger than gnome itself.
1. too much wasted space. I didn't buy a high res monitor just to have a giant tablet.
2. sparsely populated dialogs. I suppose this relates to #1, but still.. Why do we need 4000 extra dialogs to move through remedial tasks like changing backgrounds and color schemes?
3. hidden or nonexistent advanced tweaking. Again, a trend that makes living with computing frustrating. In this age, the user is assumed not suited to define his own workflow and layout, so we're all stuck with assumptions made by 'designers' who 'went to school for design', who never actually did anything else with their computers other than run photoshop...maximized fullscreen of course. To get what I want, I now have to manage a litany of patches against libgnome et al, or if I'm running windows 7, I have to hack up shellstyle.dll using a resource editor, and don't even get me started on windows 8. Why? This is not progress.
The problem boils down to placing aesthetics above functionality. This might work sorta ok for limited use devices, but not desktop machines used for complex workflows.
I thought that was the apple user stereotype. The linux nerd archetype is just a fat, ugly, basement dweller, usually with lots of body hair. Get your stereotypes straight!
Because the Xorg developers say that the code base is rotten and that this is the right thing to do.
Aren't the X.org developers the ones writing Wayland?
You'd think that no-one would trust developers who say 'this software we developed is awful, but the next version will be the best thing evah!'
Oh, hang on, that's been Microsoft's strategy with every Windows release in the last twenty years.
One can hardly care nothing about something and hate it at the same time. Alsok, Gnome 3 has earned the hate. Clearly, former Gnome users were and still are betrayed.
After using Gnome 3 for a while on Debian Testing I've noticed the lack of configuration options.
I have wished that I could see both the time *and* the date on the top level bar that you can't add or delete anything from, but no, I'm sure that would be "too confusing for the users".
Now that I've purchased an Android stick to run XBMC, the TV computer can now be converted to a real machine and run stumpwm or ratpoison as $deity intended.
Gnome has always been a shit show. WMII 4 EVA!!!!11 LOL F4G
So a new version of Gnome is out, so in 7 days we will get a new build from X.org (should be the 3rd of October), and then one week after that, a new version of Ubuntu (should be about the 10th of October). The Ubuntu version will be 13.10 (2013/October).
Not really seeing much in the way of objective facts in your opinion piece.
The problem boils down to placing aesthetics above functionality
I guess that depends on what you mean by functional.
Frankly, gnome is just a collection of current design trends that are questionable at best, and that is the reason you see the commentary.
So was Gnome 2! It was just followed the then popular and ubiquitous desktop paradigm started by Windows! Can you provide some objective facts to back up the opinion that it's a questionable design? At this point, criticism about Gnome-Shell is just criticism for the sake of being critical. We're 2+ years on from the initial release. It's obvious the project managers aren't going to reverse course. And the arguments I see at each release are the same. There's nothing new to be said. So what is it really getting anyone?
Contrasting your opinion, I like Gnome-Shell (the actual UI bit that runs on top of the Gnome 3 bits). Though I'm a fan of "sparse" desktops. My prior favorite was Openbox. Over time I found Openbox and the minimalist lot to be too much hassle to configure anymore.
And I don't get the whole "A GUI interaction for everything!" concept. I loath managing more than 3 or 4 windows. Don't even get me started on the dozens of dialogs and digging through layer after layer of menus. Coupled with a ridiculous amount of mouse interaction, I don't really see how that was any better. More familiar perhaps, but that does not equate to better. For me, Gnome-Shell works just fine:
1. I don't have an uber hi-res monitor because after a certain point the pixels are just wasted for what I do.
2. It's more polished and offers a more unified desktop experience than Openbox or other minimalist environs
3. Gnome-Shell extensions get me the rest of what I want
4. I can launch and navigate to what I need using the keyboard. I rarely have to mouse around
My only beef of late is the removal of split windows in Nautilus.
I do think the Gnome devs are pretty narrow minded and can be blowhards. Likewise, I think a lot of the folks grousing about how big a shipwreck Gnome-Shell is are likewise being overly dramatic. A free software project didn't do what you wanted? Oh so sad. Too bad there aren't any alternatives. Oh wait. If you want a UI that works exactly how you'd like, write it. Why is it someone else's responsibility to provide you with the tools you need? For free at that.
I have a Samsung T700, and i've been trying out SO many UI's, seeing if one will actually work. So far no luck. It mainly comes down to the on-screen keyboard. If all these UI's are being designed for more of a tablet feel, it's a shame they haven't focused some effort on getting the on-screen keyboard right. I'm hoping 3.10 will have made some improvements...
The constant state of flux and capricious addition of rather dubious and unneeded features while removing popular ones doesn't really make for a great desktop. It's just a fast way to piss everyone off as they move on to better things.
Cliche as it may be, I've used Gnome Shell up to version 3.6.. I've test driven 3.8 and 3.10 and quite frankly it's bad enough my linux desktop wants to upgrade every 6 months and break everything but now my desktop environment just adds another pitfall of upgrading and being hit with massive amounts of change.
I would like a stable DE that refines itself but doesn't constantly strive to redefine itself every time I apt-get upgrade.
WMII , its development is not active anymore , you should switch to awesome or i3
People do that in Microsoft stories, Apple stories, Google stories, etc. mostly to just hate on the company or product, why should Linux products be any different?
I thought this was an interesting choice regarding their Web browser.
"Web, the GNOME browser, has had a number of improvements for 3.10. Like many other applications, its titlebar and toolbar have been combined into a header bar. This gives more screen space to show web pages in. Web has also gained integration with system search, so that you can search your browsing history and open pages directly from the Activities Overview. Finally, as a part of our effort to protect your privacy, the default web search engine has been switched to DuckDuckGo."
If I didn't always post AC I'd have mod points to spend on you, and I'd be moding you up.
Lack of split screen in Nautilus is the only big problem I've had with Gnome Shell. The window management is very well thought out for keyboard or mouse.
I remember when KDE4 came out and how "everyone" hated that too. Should we put GUI change deniers into the same box as climate change deniers? ;)
Not really seeing much in the way of objective facts in your opinion piece.
The problem boils down to placing aesthetics above functionality
I guess that depends on what you mean by functional.
For me it mean working with a grid of 8*8 virtual desktops, with up to about 100 windows, and very fast way to switch between them. In work on a lot of projects and I never close my session so I can simply find a particular project exactly as it was last time I touched it. A project can take many desktops alone to fit all the required information (specification, search, edit, git, compilation, targets console, monitoring, chat, schematics, PCB, etc...)
Frankly, gnome is just a collection of current design trends that are questionable at best, and that is the reason you see the commentary.
So was Gnome 2 [...]
Last Gnome revision 2 was a climax for my workflow. Rock stable, and easy to configure to match my needs. Gnome 3 (and Unity by the way) is just a failed experiment that try to reinvent everything by simply denying decade of desktop usability work. It's a childish approach that was based from the beginning on the false idea that Gnome 2 was too complicated and also based on the even more false concept that nobody use a computer to do things more complex that what you can basically already do on a mobile phone.
Last Gnome 2 revision was the best desktop ever for professional use. It achieved the prodigious goal to be very simple for the beginners and very powerful for the most advanced users. It take literally a decade of work to produce last Gnome 2 with a lot of peoples involved on it. There all make very goods decisions to address the largest audience as possible. But this excluded the small audience of those that think that everyone must uses a gaming interface to just start a web browser in full screen like Gnome 3 do.
The Gnome project is now mismanaged by a team of blind revisionists that trashed a decade of good work. And the hegemony continue today with the lunch of "Software" that will only present and install applications coded by the same team of extremists. After having trashed the desktop concept there now try to trash the distribution concept. How a such catastrophe have taken place ?
That weather app needs fixing.. a chronological listing of temps might be more readable as "afternoon" comes before "night".
Linux in a nutshell........those devs probably failed the MS yearly stack rankings.
Totally agree. The gnome 3 interface Nazis destroyed decades of good work (their own) by killing off gnome 2. Not enough balls to let their new product, gnome 3, stand on its own, the killed off the best of open software. Every alternative is a step back: xfce, xubuntu, mate, or whatever are inferior or less stable. I now use osx and I don't look back: for me Linux on the desktop died with gnome 3 (and unity) and whatever development takes place now is irrelevant. I still run debian on my servers but that is it.
Linus is like Napoleon, only with a worse haircut.
As a FreeBSD user, I feel for you folks who get crap software shoved down your throats because your distro's maintainers say that's what you want. I thought Gnome 1.4 was fabulous but it has degraded ever since. Good luck to you in your struggle against group-think.
You know, I remember, many years ago now, an article that got posted on /. about usability of the Linux desktop for casual/beginner/"regualr people" users. GNOME and KDE were examined. At the time Gnome 2.x was fairly new.
One of the prominent complaints (one that got MSFT and AAPL fanbois gloating) was how people struggled with the exotic names for everyday applications.
So...you have to click this GIMP thingy to edit pictures? To go ont he web you need to clock "Konqueror" or "Galeon" (the latter of which morphed into "Epiphany"--so much more clear what it does eh?). To burn a CD I need "Brasero", etc.
The user had to rely on icons--sometimes they were not so useful either.
So the GNOME people have finally done something about it and name the app that helps you install software "Software", and call the web browser "web" instead of "Epihpany"...makes sense considering the feedback right? Well, now they are being mocked by experienced users for the unimaginative names. It's not like a computer literate person can't figure out what "WEB" does (oh gee, that must be the GNOME web browser...well isn't that more boring than Epiphany, but I guess now Aunt Martha will know how to get on the web).
By the way--"WEB" is just Epiphany renamed--the GNOM browser. Firefox/Iceweasel or Chromium still appear with their respective names/icons, so you can relax unlessyou are among the 1% of GNOME users who just use the GNOME Web browser and nothing else.
(As I type this I use GNOME 3.8 from Debian unstable and experimental packages--'tis a great improvement over 3.4 and earlier that so many still use or base their first impressions on--hopefully 3.10 will be packaged for Debian in due time--pwehaps a couple weeks before 3.12 comes out ;-)
But I *DO* repect your opinion. You don't like GNOME, that is fine. You've stated reasons why you don't like GNOME. That is great. That is on topic, even if I don't entirely agree (though GNOME 3 *does* have room for improvement).
That said, "GNOME 3 sucks I use MATE" and then going on to expound about how wonderfully traditional MATE is is OFF TOPIC. The article is about the release of GNOME 3. Unless you are going to make some observation about GNOME 3 beyond a one line "sucks" comment then said comment is very deservedly modded into oblivion.
We've heard it all before. It is a broken record, it is a dead horse that people just can't stop beating. If you must be critical be constructive and be a bit specific about what needs improvement. We do NOT need to hear "GNOME 3 sucks". That is less than useless. Go away and let *intelligent* critics have some input (I would even put up with Torvalds or DeRaadt style profanity laden rants so long as they have meaningful point to them).
they made it even weirder? Great.
On my PC running GNOME 3.8 resuming from lock screen is instantaneous. You have something wrong with your system.
I suspend by closing my laptop lid--not tried any other way but that works.
I have a sandy-bridge qaud core i7 with 16 gigs ram...pretty good spec but not what as good as you have and I can tell you there is no lag to speak of. Boots fast, everything responds instantly. And that is running my Radeon card on LOW POWER (slow) profile mode. Are you sure you have it installed right? Video driver issues maybe? Something hoging CPU?
How much crap do you have in you top bar if your clock is cut off. Your calendar takes 2-5 seconds to come up? WTF? Mine comes up in MILLIseconds.
Either you are BSing us all or you have wider system issues. This is NOT what I've seen with GNOME3. Even a several-years-old single Core 2 desktop with Intel 4500 integrated graphics and far less RAM I have can do better at it!
To be fair to the Wayland developers they are trying to make a protocol that is optimized for today's needs. X11 can be shoehorned into having some of the same functions but things are harder to implement and often have additional overhead in X11 that does not exist with Wayland.
The project leader for Wayland has argued that many things about X cannot be fixed without major protocol changes. The Wayland model is so radically different they cannot justify calling it X12 or X13.
There is some confusion about what is a GNOME-based application and what is part of the GNOME environment itself.
For example Shotwell is a third-party GNOME based application. It has never been part of the GNOME project--not a GNOME component. Rather, it has merely been the most commonly used app for photo management and viewing as packaged by distributions. Shotwell supplanted F-Spot becaus the latter was built with .NET/Mono and many had concerns about potential MSFT-interference.
GNOME did not have final say on either F-Spot OR Shotwell given they weren't GNOME desktop components--just apps designed to work on GNOME. Until now there WAS no official default app. Now there is:: GNOME Photos.
As such, I expect that GNOME Photos, Music, Notes, Maps, etc. will continue for the long term as the "defaults" as they are new official GNOME components. Furthermore I suspect Shotwell, Rythmbox, etc will continue on as alternatives, likely with some enhanced capabilites, different feature sets, etc. just as WEB (aka epiphany) is the "official" GNOME browser client it is still commonly (or even normally) supplanted by a 3rd party browser.
I appreciate your acceptance of criticism, even from those who lack the real world experience to know what it is they criticize.
Personally, if those people wish to consume my time, I will ask them to invest at least an equal amount of time trying the product as the time they intend to talk about it. But that's just me. I value my time in a manner that wants others to at least base their opinions on feelings that were impacted by exposure to the item they were "discussing."
While X11 can be shoehorned into a tablet interface, Wayland cannot be shoehorned into a network transparent environment. Even the developers and the fanboys say to use something like VNC, which is what we were doing back when we were still running Windows 95. So I guess when you say "optimized for todays needs", by "today", you mean 1995.
Curious to know people's thoughts on this: how necessary are projects like MATE now that GNOME 3 has a supported-in-the-long-term "Classic" mode
Why, there should always be a project that people will loudly "threaten" to switch to every time somebody makes a development commit affecting their favorite workflow habit.
My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
Wait 10 years, and Gnome 3 will have reimplemented the options from Gnome 2 in the same way Gnome 2 eventually put back the options they yanked out of Gnome 1. Of course, then they'll start Gnome 4. KDE was guilty of this with KDE 4 too, but at least it was for technical reasons and not HCI.
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2 points:
What is wrong with FVWM95?
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Indeed - lack of respect for the user is a sure sign of product maturity!
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Both remaining users are said to slightly care.
Sky subscribers are morons. They pay to be advertised at !
I'm not fearing it that much, these days.
- if your app supports X11, you will still able to run it with ssh -X, whether the host it's on runs Wayland, X or nothing at all.
An app can conceivably support only X11, only Wayland or both. It's possible the vast majority of stuff you'll run is in the first or 3rd category.
- if every Wayland window is a dumb pixel buffer and the VNC-like streaming is more integrated rather than bolt-on like now, it becomes trivial to stream only the app and not a whole desktop (Microsoft has supported this too since Windows 2008).
If the end you can even benefit from the situation, as you can choose between X11 and bitmap streaming on an app-per-app basis and without needing to install and set up additional servers.
Even streaming 3D accelerated programs might become possible, eventually.
Whenever I see a computer running Gnome I feel sorry for it. It makes it look like it's got Downs Syndrome.
The mind just boggles at how incredibly futile it is going to be googling for help on an app called 'Software'. I think the gnome guys have gone from mild contempt for the user to rabid hate and fury.
Amazing.
I am a lawyer and this constitutes legal advice and I shall indemnify you against any losses arising from taking it.
We, power desktop users, are in trouble. I strongly agree with you we need refinement, and what we get? Windows 8, KDE 4, Gnome 3. Developers of these desktops are more concerned in "fun to develop" than on refinement (which is boring to them).
I really liked the Gnome3 Experience... but I run three monitors, and as soon as you enable more than one X Screen, Mutter dies and ugly death and puts you into "Fallback Mode". As a result, I'm running XFCE.
* You must own a 3D licence to drive it, witch cost you money and time to earn.
* The instrument panel (because it's ugly to have useful information displayed all the time) will be replaced by a projection on the windshield with information placed everywhere on it as soon a you do an action, hiding the road.
* And because there is too much informations there, there kill almost all of them as you should known yourself your actual speed (cpu load), energy reserve level (free memory), etc...
* The commands around the steering wheel (because it's way too complicated for users) will be replaced by a touchpad on the center of the steering wheel: you have to swipe up to the extreme upper left corner to display the possible action catalog on the extreme right of the windshield projected screen and then swipe from the extreme left to the extreme right to select the action like turning on the light. Touchpad is the future, period. Commands are for the elders that can no longer adapt there brain to the modern evolution.
* The navigation system (virtual desktop map) basically choose a random direction just second before intersection until it find the destination completely by luck. The map data randomly swap towns (desktop) location so you have to manually maintain a translation index in your head. You cannot program more than a few destinations.
* There is no way to carry something other than a standardized adult on the car. Who would like to have children anyway ? And a car is only there for the joy of driving, so there is absolutely no need to have place for baggage or anything special to transport. Car have is not designed to transport something.
* The car is only adapted to special roads made for them. Using it with previous generation of roads is completely unsupported can raise unexpected results.
* All the accessories actually on the market are completely incompatible with this car. You have to use only the accessories provided by the manufacturer, but the catalog is very short and the quality is bad.
* Sometime it cash for no reason.
* The manufacturer of the car ignore any complain from there customers, telling to them that there are not using the car the way it was designed to be used.
I know this is an old story by internet and slashdot standards, but i'm going to post some brief thoughts any way. First of all, I am no fan of Ubuntu, I'm running it as of yesterday for the first time in years just to check out Gnome 3.10. I see a lot of people here who seem to be skeptical without having tried it - I was too. Now that I am using it, it is a huge step up for Gnome. I'm not going to give a review, there are already plenty out there. I'm just saying, don't knock it till you've tried it. I am pretty discriminating when it comes to user interfaces, and am consequently an elementary OS user - but I think I'll be trying this out for a few days.
We are trying to work to change that. We do appreciate the positive post on GNOME. Thank you.
I'm sorry I disagree. The new design actually provides a lot more extensibility than you could ever do with GNOME. I think you haven't looked at GNOME 3 deep enough to really understand it. Try using it for a month and try to use it as designed.
While your claim could be technically true, the actual user experience is far below the Gnome 2 level.
Yeah, whenever they dropped the objective of being a Network Object Model Environment, they should have changed the name to something else, be it MATE or whatever.
A MONTH? If I need to use a desktop for a month to like it, it has already failed. It is a desktop, I do work in the applications. What is the payoff of spending a month getting use to GNOME? I won't be more productive, I won't be more comfortable but hey, I might use it the way you want? A MONTH? How is that reasonable? And I love the bit about using it the way it was designed. Seems to be a pretty common complaint and I'll echo it here: The computer should adapt to me, not the other way around?
Can any body tell me whre I can get best support to install all network components: cabling, routers, switches, servers and workstations, LAN, and WAN components for maximum uptime and productivity? Sumon Ali http://jaccarinotech.weebly.com/
Now that is a butthurt Gnome fanboy
Holy shit, you need to get out of your moms basement for a while.
Gnome 3 is a faster way to navigate open windows, but I don't see anything ground breaking in this release to make me want to ditch Xfce.