I wonder what other unique life experiences can be had for 15 million. I can't think of anything that costs more than a million, actually. An enormous mansion or private jet doesn't count, that isn't unique enough.
How 'bout, I don't know, feeding several million people?
He saw a hand moving across the screen while he was remoted in? He saw a small low-resolution 4-bit image of something hanging in space and knows it's not man-made because he didn't see rivets or seems?
Agreed, but any SAP implementation project I've been associated with has taken the stance that, where the customer's business processes differ with the way SAP automates things, the business processes will change (where possible), which is why it's so common to have a business process re-engineering in association with an SAP implementation. The reason for this is, of course, the expense associated with customizing and maintaining the SAP system on your own. Virtually all companies do this, and it's reasonable to think that most will continue to do so. SAP didn't define these business processes, after all, they simply automated what customers and consulting partners were already doing. And they have always been good about taking input on what could be done differently.
Of course then the organisation spends 3+yrs fighting over business process and we bring in 100+/- consultants to converge the existing business with the ERPs implementation.
True, I am referring to basic functionality. But for many, this is just fine. I can't speculate as to how much time it would take for customizations without defining those ahead of time. Of course, my management seems to be able to.:)
If all of the people that had no experience in implementing or supporting SAP or Oracle ERP systems refrained from responding to this article, it would be very quiet in here.
The fact of the matter is that SAP is a complex beast. I've been working with it, both developing and administering, for about 12 years now. I have no experience with Oracle's ERP product (though I am an Oracle DBA), but I'm sure it's just as sizeable. The issue with most "failed" SAP implementations that I'm aware of, and there have been many, is this - incompetence. Incompetence abounds in the technology industry. It's not isolated to SAP, either. I routinely interview job candidates for Oracle DBA positions, SAP Basis Administration positions, SAP BW Developer positions, and SAP ABAP developer positions. I find one very common thread among the candidates - very few of them know what they're talking about. If you hire them, either as an employee, or as a consultant, and they are the senior technical people on your implementation project, you are bound to fail. Whether it's implementation of the ERP product itself, or an implementation of new functionality. That's not SAP's fault, it's yours.
In the end, the decision to go with Oracle or SAP should be based upon which product fits best in your environment, if either of them do. Interfaces are a significant part of this decision, and both SAP and Oracle have their strengths which need to be evaluated and prioritized. Supportability is, as well. If you are not willing to pay your senior developers and support staff more than $100K per year to maintain the product, then don't bother, you will likely fail. If the evaluation is done well, and the implementation is managed well, and you take care to hire the right people and retain them, then you will succeed.
It takes more effort and man hours to customise and install these products than is does to write an equivalent system inhouse, and, then you pay license fees.
Wow, that's such impressive FUD. Do you work for Microsoft?
My team of 12 (internal employees, not consultants) can have a freshly installed system (takes me 1 day to install) configured in under a month. You couldn't write a product in any language or tool with the same number of people in under 2 years. And even then, it would be cripped compared to SAP's ERP product.
Actually, SAP has no stance on autoupdating on any platform. But they do not support certain patches until they are certified by SAP. For Linux, this includes the kernel and glibc only. Any moron should choose to wait to apply these patches until they had been rigorously tested, so I don't know why it's an issue here.
Of course, I have seen Windows patches cause issues with SAP (and other) applications as well. If Crest decides to just blindly apply all patches automagically, I'm sure they will encounter this issue as well, even on their new shiny Windows boxen.
User A: I used SAP and had lots of problems and it didn't work and the consultants took lots of money and re-engineered everything around their system. SAP is always crap. User B: I've used SAP for years and had no problems. You must be the problem. Never mind that I know nothing about your situation or your dealings with SAP I'm going to call you a liar and say SAP is wonderful.
I prefer to look at it this way: User A (not me): It's crap because I failed at it. User B (me): I succeeded at it, so your blanket statement that it's crap because you couldn't do it are not true. My successes with it came from years of experience and learning from those that could teach me how to do it, so that tells me that it works, when done properly.
Maybe that's just me. When I want to do something, and do it well, I don't seek out the opinions of those that have failed at it.
Well, if it's on google, then it must be true. I, on the other hand, don't need to see opinions of others that have failed, since I've been using it for over 10 years now, with success.
Its a overpriced peice of trash that any compitent IT staff can do better for cheaper.
Then you, being an obviously competent IT person, judging by your spelling, should do it yourself. If you can in fact do it better, you'll stand to do very well for yourself.
You can get the latest java gui (don't go 6.20, the gui is backwards-compatible) from ftp://ftp.sap.com/pub/sapgui/java/640r4/PlatinGUI- Linux-640r4.jar I have not had any issues with this java gui running on Linux since the 4.6 gui days. As long as you RTFM (documentation is a separate file in the download directory), it has always worked well for me.
There is no native SAPgui for any platform other than windows, only the java gui.
the install was quite easy, as long as you knew how to read a shell script and install maybe an RPM or two.
And therein lies the problem. Someone performing an install that either does not know the application, or does not know the operating system, well, they're going to have a hard time no matter what they're doing. Why don't companies understand that?
Wow, this is just so uninformed. SAP is just as easy to install on Linux (for those that know Linux) as it is to install on Windows (for those that know Windows).
SAP development started on Unix. It is more mature there - always has been. SAP's Linux product comes from the same codebase as it's Unix product. Windows is not the same codebase. You tell me which you think is more "mature".
I've been running SAP on Unix for 10 years now, and on Linux for over 3 years now. Never a single issue that wasn't already documented somewhere.
SAP products require patch after patch, and take MONTHS to really install. We had a team of engineers working around the clock (literally) for 5 months to get our base systems set up to SAP specs. Even then we would receive "mystery" patches, frequently resulting in system crashes as they weren't designed to work with other patches. Bottom line - SAP is the problem. They churn out highly unstable software and have armies of consultants who will sweep problems like this under the carpet or find something else to blame.
This is a load of crap. Everyone hires consultants that are idiots, but the interactions you describe with SAP just don't happen. I've been administering SAP systems for 10 years now, and I've never had anything like what you describe.
They claim support for linux and other non-MS platforms, but that's only for their core products. Everything outside of CRM and R3 is riddled with technotes and disclaimers about needing MSSQL and WINDOWS.
What a joke. MS SQL/Windows were among the last platforms supported by SAP. In all my years of supporting SAP systems, I have NEVER run across a note saying that something was only supported on SQL Server/Windows.
SAP has a HORRIBLE track record on linux.
Bottom line, I've been running SAP products on Linux for over 3 years now, with not a single complaint. You obviously don't know jack about what you're talking about.
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I wonder what other unique life experiences can be had for 15 million. I can't think of anything that costs more than a million, actually. An enormous mansion or private jet doesn't count, that isn't unique enough.
How 'bout, I don't know, feeding several million people?
He saw a hand moving across the screen while he was remoted in? He saw a small low-resolution 4-bit image of something hanging in space and knows it's not man-made because he didn't see rivets or seems?
I don't think so.
Jerks are jerks, no matter what OS they run.
Agreed, but any SAP implementation project I've been associated with has taken the stance that, where the customer's business processes differ with the way SAP automates things, the business processes will change (where possible), which is why it's so common to have a business process re-engineering in association with an SAP implementation. The reason for this is, of course, the expense associated with customizing and maintaining the SAP system on your own. Virtually all companies do this, and it's reasonable to think that most will continue to do so. SAP didn't define these business processes, after all, they simply automated what customers and consulting partners were already doing. And they have always been good about taking input on what could be done differently.
Of course then the organisation spends 3+yrs fighting over business process and we bring in 100+/- consultants to converge the existing business with the ERPs implementation.
Hard to blame any application vendor for that.
True, I am referring to basic functionality. But for many, this is just fine. I can't speculate as to how much time it would take for customizations without defining those ahead of time. Of course, my management seems to be able to. :)
If all of the people that had no experience in implementing or supporting SAP or Oracle ERP systems refrained from responding to this article, it would be very quiet in here.
The fact of the matter is that SAP is a complex beast. I've been working with it, both developing and administering, for about 12 years now. I have no experience with Oracle's ERP product (though I am an Oracle DBA), but I'm sure it's just as sizeable. The issue with most "failed" SAP implementations that I'm aware of, and there have been many, is this - incompetence. Incompetence abounds in the technology industry. It's not isolated to SAP, either. I routinely interview job candidates for Oracle DBA positions, SAP Basis Administration positions, SAP BW Developer positions, and SAP ABAP developer positions. I find one very common thread among the candidates - very few of them know what they're talking about. If you hire them, either as an employee, or as a consultant, and they are the senior technical people on your implementation project, you are bound to fail. Whether it's implementation of the ERP product itself, or an implementation of new functionality. That's not SAP's fault, it's yours.
In the end, the decision to go with Oracle or SAP should be based upon which product fits best in your environment, if either of them do. Interfaces are a significant part of this decision, and both SAP and Oracle have their strengths which need to be evaluated and prioritized. Supportability is, as well. If you are not willing to pay your senior developers and support staff more than $100K per year to maintain the product, then don't bother, you will likely fail. If the evaluation is done well, and the implementation is managed well, and you take care to hire the right people and retain them, then you will succeed.
It takes more effort and man hours to customise and install these products than is does to write an equivalent system inhouse, and, then you pay license fees.
Wow, that's such impressive FUD. Do you work for Microsoft?
My team of 12 (internal employees, not consultants) can have a freshly installed system (takes me 1 day to install) configured in under a month. You couldn't write a product in any language or tool with the same number of people in under 2 years. And even then, it would be cripped compared to SAP's ERP product.
Actually, SAP has no stance on autoupdating on any platform. But they do not support certain patches until they are certified by SAP. For Linux, this includes the kernel and glibc only. Any moron should choose to wait to apply these patches until they had been rigorously tested, so I don't know why it's an issue here.
Of course, I have seen Windows patches cause issues with SAP (and other) applications as well. If Crest decides to just blindly apply all patches automagically, I'm sure they will encounter this issue as well, even on their new shiny Windows boxen.
"S"ystems "A"pplications and "P"rograms in Data Processing... at least, that's the English translation of it.
User A: I used SAP and had lots of problems and it didn't work and the consultants took lots of money and re-engineered everything around their system. SAP is always crap.
User B: I've used SAP for years and had no problems. You must be the problem. Never mind that I know nothing about your situation or your dealings with SAP I'm going to call you a liar and say SAP is wonderful.
I prefer to look at it this way:
User A (not me): It's crap because I failed at it.
User B (me): I succeeded at it, so your blanket statement that it's crap because you couldn't do it are not true. My successes with it came from years of experience and learning from those that could teach me how to do it, so that tells me that it works, when done properly.
Maybe that's just me. When I want to do something, and do it well, I don't seek out the opinions of those that have failed at it.
Then you, being an obviously competent IT person, judging by your spelling, should do it yourself. If you can in fact do it better, you'll stand to do very well for yourself.
Best of luck to you.
You can get the latest java gui (don't go 6.20, the gui is backwards-compatible) from ftp://ftp.sap.com/pub/sapgui/java/640r4/PlatinGUI- Linux-640r4.jar
I have not had any issues with this java gui running on Linux since the 4.6 gui days. As long as you RTFM (documentation is a separate file in the download directory), it has always worked well for me.
There is no native SAPgui for any platform other than windows, only the java gui.
And therein lies the problem. Someone performing an install that either does not know the application, or does not know the operating system, well, they're going to have a hard time no matter what they're doing. Why don't companies understand that?
Wow, this is just so uninformed. SAP is just as easy to install on Linux (for those that know Linux) as it is to install on Windows (for those that know Windows). SAP development started on Unix. It is more mature there - always has been. SAP's Linux product comes from the same codebase as it's Unix product. Windows is not the same codebase. You tell me which you think is more "mature". I've been running SAP on Unix for 10 years now, and on Linux for over 3 years now. Never a single issue that wasn't already documented somewhere.