I'm pretty sure the data was on the order of bytes, and it was only from unsecured connections. If Google wanted to snoop, there are far easier and more effective ways for them to do it than a bunch of guys out wardriving. Have you ever heard of this little service called Gmail? How about Google Checkout?
I'd be okay with giving to give anyone who cares to ask a comprehensive list of my interests. Unfortunately for Google and advertisers, they only get my interests, not the ad revenue.
Apple is the one who has the little padded cells. Google have improved the internet, and probably even the whole tech industry the most out of any company in the last decade. There are a whole lot of benefits that have come our way - easily the best search since 1998, gigabytes of free inbox space, free online office suite capabilities, a popular and open mobile OS etc. A lot more benefits than Apple have provided. They made MP3 players popular, and then capacitive touch phones with swooshy interfaces.. that's about it. Microsoft have given us.. well, I can't think of anything to be honest.
What other possible use is there for a bunch of SSIDs, MAC addresses and GPS co-ordinates? You can't do anything useful with that data other than link addresses to locations. It allows both Google and their customers to do geo-location without GPS. What am I apparently missing?
And since an army needs a lot of resources, then whoever is providing those resources also has brought about the defeat of the enemy. It's everyone's victory.
Okay, so you're bothered about them recording public information rather than them secretly tracking your phone no matter what settings you choose.
If you don't want your internal MAC addresses being publicly broadcast, use cables instead of WiFi. Pretty obvious and simple. If you were singing loudly with your window open, you couldn't complain about people recording the noise from the street. Likewise you can't complain about people recording radio transmissions and identifiers that you're knowingly spewing over your property lines.
It's up to you to decide the trade-offs between convenience, security and cost.
Well, that is kind of how things work. The person in charge takes the credit. I wouldn't use the turn of phrase myself, but I can imagine some people doing it. Like the general of an army boasting about how he defeated some opposing army, when in fact it was his men that did all the hard work.
Of course it wasn't accidental. But it was for only for geolocation purposes. You think they don't have enough personal data from people's email etc anyway if they really wanted it? They could do keylogging from Chrome on specific targets if they wanted to. They could hire private investigators to place cameras. They could use people's Gmail usernames and passwords to log into paypal accounts, etc, etc, etc, blah blah blah.
They are making money hand over fist from ads and Android already. It's moronic to seriously believe that they are going to sift through tiny fragments from billions of public wi-fi devices to somehow try to find usernames/passwords or anything other than the generic geolocation stuff when they already have so much information and money available.
I expect Google buried some lawyer speak deep in an EULA making this activity perfectly legal. I'm not okay with it though.
It's hardly buried deep. There's a whole section in Android settings panel to control it - "Location and Security Settings". You can just turn off certain location service types if you want. If there even was anything evil and unwanted going on, people will bring out some ROMs with all that crap disabled for those that don't want to help improve the location databases. I think when you first connect up your account it asks you if you want to enable your location in Latitude and allow the phone to connect location info too. It's quite possible that all Android location info is from people who have opted into Latitude.
Yeah, it's so evil to create a system that allows geo-location without GPS *rolleyes* I'm sure they did this only to make the lives of stalkers easier. Certainly they would never try to do anything as helpful as allow people with crappy phones to get better location info.
Sweet, so we all have "spy gear" built into our laptops and phones now! Scanning for local wifi devices/data now qualifies you to be a spy - cool! I'm off to apply to MI5.
Even if one of their main reasons for doing all of this is to make advertising more relevant, I don't see what the problem is there. If you even let your browser display ads at all, it's better to have useful ones. Targeted advertising is hardly "evil", and if the system also benefits the public then I think it's worth it.
I suppose if it guarantees that games act consistently with partying then the Xbox system would be better. I think it is game dependent though. I had no problems partying up and playing Lost Planet 2 online with my brother, playing LittleBigPlanet etc. I generally am just happy playing against anyone though. I agree with Kendall that the PS3 feels much better value for money.
I only got my 360 to play online with friends who didn't have a PS3, though I did then appreciate the chance to be able to play Limbo. The other Xbox exclusives like Halo and Gears Of War are just awful though. They're like going back in time 15 years in terms of gameplay. Just to point out that I'm not biased depending on the platform, I think that the Resistance: Fall of Man games on the PS3 are just as crap:p Uncharted 1 and 2 are very good though (apart from the multiplayer on 2), and LittleBigPlanet is of course excellent. In the next console generation I'm either going to get a PS4, or switch back to PC gaming. Or both..
I don't get the big deal about XBL. It certainly doesn't feel worth paying for after having played online games with friends and voice chat on both consoles. To have to pay just to get stuff I already can do for free on the PS3 feels insulting.
Yes, I have a PS3 and a 360 with a gold sub (and a Wii, PSP and DS). You don't sound like you've tried online gaming on a PS3.
Yes, your post was rather convoluted. I tried to make sense of it briefly, but then assumed that it was just trolling due to all the "Go Oracle!" stuff.
Okay, twice can't just be a typo. "Brought" is not the same word as "bought".
I gave up on trying to correct the internet a few years ago, and even on Slashdot for a while. But seriously, if you're using words like "estoppel", you should know the difference between bought and brought.
Yep it's close to what humans do, though we wouldn't necessarily completely discard things, we might keep them for later processing, or keep them in an entirely separate part of thinking. Like lots of people can do real science while also knowing about "science" in science fiction, or being religious.
I was thinking that a computer that only deals in facts would be quite boring to talk to. A computer that can also talk about hypothetical possibilities, literary worlds etc without confusing them with the real world, would be cooler. There needs to be a way to at least partially separate out different domains, and consider the possibilities that some things may be true even if they can't be proven yet, etc. I was just suggesting some possible step on the road to having an AI with general intelligence.
If you assume that "intelligence" means "thinks just like a human" then sure.
There's lots of stuff "like" AI. In fact there's plenty of actual AI out there that works well in the domain that it was designed for.
Projects like Watson are really cool though, and heading in the right direction for building machines that can process a wide type of information in an intelligent manner, and respond to questions about that information and the links between it. Watson isn't really designed to teach (that I know of), but I would think of it as a form of intelligent encyclopaedia, which would be useful as a teaching aid.
If the guys at IBM improved Watson to be able to create lectures and its own quizzes (guided by a syllabus with the main points that students should be learning), it would be well on the way to being a personal tutor.
If they further improved Watson to be able to ask its own questions, or at least take in new information from sources outside of the original quiz show database (and not just blindly accept all information as "truth" of course, there would have to be heuristics to see how well the info fits in with what Watson already "believes", or at least some way of separating out facts from fictional ideas, if it doesn't already do that), it could actually be fun, and perhaps even insightful to talk to. Just don't let it read any YouTube comments.
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I'm pretty sure the data was on the order of bytes, and it was only from unsecured connections. If Google wanted to snoop, there are far easier and more effective ways for them to do it than a bunch of guys out wardriving. Have you ever heard of this little service called Gmail? How about Google Checkout?
I'd be okay with giving to give anyone who cares to ask a comprehensive list of my interests. Unfortunately for Google and advertisers, they only get my interests, not the ad revenue.
Apple is the one who has the little padded cells. Google have improved the internet, and probably even the whole tech industry the most out of any company in the last decade. There are a whole lot of benefits that have come our way - easily the best search since 1998, gigabytes of free inbox space, free online office suite capabilities, a popular and open mobile OS etc. A lot more benefits than Apple have provided. They made MP3 players popular, and then capacitive touch phones with swooshy interfaces.. that's about it. Microsoft have given us.. well, I can't think of anything to be honest.
What other possible use is there for a bunch of SSIDs, MAC addresses and GPS co-ordinates? You can't do anything useful with that data other than link addresses to locations. It allows both Google and their customers to do geo-location without GPS. What am I apparently missing?
When did they claim any of it was accidental? They'd have to do that to be lying.
Please consider your own advice.
And since an army needs a lot of resources, then whoever is providing those resources also has brought about the defeat of the enemy. It's everyone's victory.
Okay, so you're bothered about them recording public information rather than them secretly tracking your phone no matter what settings you choose.
If you don't want your internal MAC addresses being publicly broadcast, use cables instead of WiFi. Pretty obvious and simple. If you were singing loudly with your window open, you couldn't complain about people recording the noise from the street. Likewise you can't complain about people recording radio transmissions and identifiers that you're knowingly spewing over your property lines.
It's up to you to decide the trade-offs between convenience, security and cost.
Well, that is kind of how things work. The person in charge takes the credit. I wouldn't use the turn of phrase myself, but I can imagine some people doing it. Like the general of an army boasting about how he defeated some opposing army, when in fact it was his men that did all the hard work.
Uh oh - so you're saying that Google now are tracking all 17 people who have IPv6 enabled at home?
Of course it wasn't accidental. But it was for only for geolocation purposes. You think they don't have enough personal data from people's email etc anyway if they really wanted it? They could do keylogging from Chrome on specific targets if they wanted to. They could hire private investigators to place cameras. They could use people's Gmail usernames and passwords to log into paypal accounts, etc, etc, etc, blah blah blah.
They are making money hand over fist from ads and Android already. It's moronic to seriously believe that they are going to sift through tiny fragments from billions of public wi-fi devices to somehow try to find usernames/passwords or anything other than the generic geolocation stuff when they already have so much information and money available.
I expect Google buried some lawyer speak deep in an EULA making this activity perfectly legal. I'm not okay with it though.
It's hardly buried deep. There's a whole section in Android settings panel to control it - "Location and Security Settings". You can just turn off certain location service types if you want. If there even was anything evil and unwanted going on, people will bring out some ROMs with all that crap disabled for those that don't want to help improve the location databases. I think when you first connect up your account it asks you if you want to enable your location in Latitude and allow the phone to connect location info too. It's quite possible that all Android location info is from people who have opted into Latitude.
And how is someone going to sniff your cable modem's wired MAC address over WiFi? Each connection has a separate MAC address.
Yeah, I was also confused as to where the actual story is here.
Yeah, it's so evil to create a system that allows geo-location without GPS *rolleyes* I'm sure they did this only to make the lives of stalkers easier. Certainly they would never try to do anything as helpful as allow people with crappy phones to get better location info.
Sweet, so we all have "spy gear" built into our laptops and phones now! Scanning for local wifi devices/data now qualifies you to be a spy - cool! I'm off to apply to MI5.
Even if one of their main reasons for doing all of this is to make advertising more relevant, I don't see what the problem is there. If you even let your browser display ads at all, it's better to have useful ones. Targeted advertising is hardly "evil", and if the system also benefits the public then I think it's worth it.
I suppose if it guarantees that games act consistently with partying then the Xbox system would be better. I think it is game dependent though. I had no problems partying up and playing Lost Planet 2 online with my brother, playing LittleBigPlanet etc. I generally am just happy playing against anyone though. I agree with Kendall that the PS3 feels much better value for money.
I only got my 360 to play online with friends who didn't have a PS3, though I did then appreciate the chance to be able to play Limbo. The other Xbox exclusives like Halo and Gears Of War are just awful though. They're like going back in time 15 years in terms of gameplay. Just to point out that I'm not biased depending on the platform, I think that the Resistance: Fall of Man games on the PS3 are just as crap :p Uncharted 1 and 2 are very good though (apart from the multiplayer on 2), and LittleBigPlanet is of course excellent. In the next console generation I'm either going to get a PS4, or switch back to PC gaming. Or both..
I don't get the big deal about XBL. It certainly doesn't feel worth paying for after having played online games with friends and voice chat on both consoles. To have to pay just to get stuff I already can do for free on the PS3 feels insulting.
Yes, I have a PS3 and a 360 with a gold sub (and a Wii, PSP and DS). You don't sound like you've tried online gaming on a PS3.
Yes, your post was rather convoluted. I tried to make sense of it briefly, but then assumed that it was just trolling due to all the "Go Oracle!" stuff.
It's nice when a company values principles over money. It's nice when someone stands up to the bully.
Like you say, they're probably in the right legally.
Thumbs up to Google. They're one of the few mega-companies that I still respect, and whose products I still want to use.
You make no sense. Android is a much more open platform than Oracle-owned Java will ever be.
Okay, twice can't just be a typo. "Brought" is not the same word as "bought".
I gave up on trying to correct the internet a few years ago, and even on Slashdot for a while. But seriously, if you're using words like "estoppel", you should know the difference between bought and brought.
Yes, I'm not in a good mood today.
It's a simple spelling correction, not flamebait. Idiots*.
* this bit is actual flamebait
*Spelling Nazi alert*
You meant paring, not pairing.
I was thinking "where are the nuclear wessels?"
Yep it's close to what humans do, though we wouldn't necessarily completely discard things, we might keep them for later processing, or keep them in an entirely separate part of thinking. Like lots of people can do real science while also knowing about "science" in science fiction, or being religious.
I was thinking that a computer that only deals in facts would be quite boring to talk to. A computer that can also talk about hypothetical possibilities, literary worlds etc without confusing them with the real world, would be cooler. There needs to be a way to at least partially separate out different domains, and consider the possibilities that some things may be true even if they can't be proven yet, etc. I was just suggesting some possible step on the road to having an AI with general intelligence.
If you assume that "intelligence" means "thinks just like a human" then sure.
There's lots of stuff "like" AI. In fact there's plenty of actual AI out there that works well in the domain that it was designed for.
Projects like Watson are really cool though, and heading in the right direction for building machines that can process a wide type of information in an intelligent manner, and respond to questions about that information and the links between it. Watson isn't really designed to teach (that I know of), but I would think of it as a form of intelligent encyclopaedia, which would be useful as a teaching aid.
If the guys at IBM improved Watson to be able to create lectures and its own quizzes (guided by a syllabus with the main points that students should be learning), it would be well on the way to being a personal tutor.
If they further improved Watson to be able to ask its own questions, or at least take in new information from sources outside of the original quiz show database (and not just blindly accept all information as "truth" of course, there would have to be heuristics to see how well the info fits in with what Watson already "believes", or at least some way of separating out facts from fictional ideas, if it doesn't already do that), it could actually be fun, and perhaps even insightful to talk to. Just don't let it read any YouTube comments.
Whatcha gonna do with all that junk, all that junk inside his trunks?