See, and that's the problem. 'The kind of money they're used to making' is what economists call a 'monopoly rent.' That kind of margin simply isn't achievable in a free market. That's why they have such a hard time changing their business model. They're addicted to those incredible margins.
I think userfriendly says it all.
Two year transition? Come on. Am I the only one that thinks this means the moment they try to do things differently he's going to step right back in and send them packing?
I suppose it just goes to show the value of a mixed economy over a pure free market.
Just how the heck do you figure that?
Neither place is anything like a free market, so you're comparing one mixed economy with another and somehow this comparison leads you to believe they're both better than a free market, which isn't part of your comparison?
Well, as I did say, I don't know exactly where the line is.
Low level programming is clearly programming. High level (i.e. C) is too. Scripts aren't. What can we deduce from that?
Perhaps that it has something to do with creating a program, that is to say, an executable that stands alone, rather than a script that another program interprets?
I said earlier that it has nothing to do with interpreted or compiled though, and I still think that's right. Or maybe just part right. Lisp is normally developed in an interpreter, but then compiled before distribution, right? But then again, I used to program on some early micros (I've only been 'not a programmer' for, umm... about ten years now.) That was in BASIC, through an interpreter, and there wasn't any other way to do it. Yeah, there was some low level programming, as I would write frequently performed routines in machine code and use peek and poke to run them, but it was still all wrapped up in a basic routine and handed to the interpreter to execute. But, in the context of the machine at least, it was a stand-alone executable, relying on nothing but what was built into the hardware to run.
I don't know. But it's clear that if scripting makes one a programmer then every grandmother that's figured out how to edit a shortcut is a programmer, and that just doesn't seem useful, does it?
Eh, not quite. Law has a more specific meaning in science.
A law is basically a mathematical formula that makes firm predictions.
For instance, in gravity, we have Newtons law. We also have Einsteins theory.
We know for a fact Newtons law isn't right, but it's predictions are so close to right under the conditions in our corner of the universe, it might as well be right. It allows you to predict gravitational effects quite quickly and precisely.
Einsteins theory doesn't have that immediate practical quality to it. While you can sit down from Einsteins theory and derive mathematical equations that make testable predictions, and in fact that's been done and those predictions are right and Newtons wrong in the cases where they disagree, no one in their right mind would try to use Einstein to calculate, for instance, a ballistic trajectory.
I don't consider PHP to be programming. It's a scripting language. The other stuff you mention I don't know, but it's my impression they're the same. It has nothing to do with whether it's compiled or not, or whether it's high or low level, because lisp, java, caml and the like are definitely the realm of programmers. (And yes, C is a high level language... what on earth do they teach kids in schools these days?)
Where is the line? I'm honestly not sure. Never really thought about it much. But you know there is one, as you said, HTML is not programming. (I've had people say I'm a programmer because I write HTML and PHP/SQL before though. The mind boggles.) But scripting isn't programming, it's normal use of the computer. Neither is markup. That's just basic communication.
Using algorithms and solving problems a piece at a time isn't programming, it's simply logic. Problem-solving skills. Stuff any literate human being does daily.
Of course in the broadest sense you could call all this 'programming' but that's very sloppy usage. Then to call someone a 'programmer' for doing these things is to dilute the word of all meaning. Anyone that's computer literate can edit a script or markup a text. Surely you don't mean to argue that makes us all 'programmers'?
I'm arguably a programmer. (I say that because if you're not using some sort of compiler there are a lot of people around here who won't even call you a programmer.) I do not hack anything but scripts (and the occasional C CGI).
You're not a programmer then. You're just computer literate.
Which is not a bad thing to be. I'm in the same shape. But it's just silly to call yourself a programmer just because you know how to *use* a computer.
Despite that, they don't really compete.
Redhat is focused entirely on servers. They've deliberately avoided the 'desktop' market all along. Which is where Ubuntu is focused.
The image I'm getting from your words is one where basically everything is outsourced. So you have a bunch of small companies doing one thing well, working for each other. Am I grokking you correctly?
Having been an outsourcer before, I'm all too aware that this has as much potential for harm as benefit. That doesn't mean I'm going to commit myself to saying the issues can't be fixed;) but I'd definitely have some concerns...
It might have. Although I've been to England I can't say I've spent enough time there to be able to pick out the different local accents of the island. I do know that York was once a Viking kingdom, and that part of the country is supposed to have distinctive dialects showing Nordic influence to this day, so it wouldn't be surprising to find out they preserve that vowel there.
I won't claim to speak Norwegian, but I've had significant exposure to it and can often understand it. I speak Swedish fairly well, and so can obviously be much more confident of my judgement there, but I've also spent many hours listening to Norwegian (and Danish) lecturers speak - working in Nordic Linguistics that comes with the territory. At any rate, the Swedish vowel ö is what I was describing - for an English speaker 'hold your mouth for 'oo' then say 'ee' instead' is the best description. That ö is an open-mid front rounded vowel (IPA "oe" as a ligature, which for some reason slashdot won't actually let me print here) and all my books, as well as my rememberances from listening to Norwegians, say that the Norwegian and Danish "ø" is the same vowel. It doesn't exist in any dialect of English I know, but like I said, if there is an English dialect with that sound Yorkshire is exactly where I would expect to find it.
I can definitely sympathise with your frustration - I found the same thing, I learned to read and write Swedish very easily, but actually learning to make it come out of my mouth (or to understand a native speaker who doesn't slow down and speak very carefully for me) was much more challenging. English has a number of difficult and unusual features phonologically, and it takes time (and lots of exposure) to pick them up. Our 'th' sounds for instance, and our tendency to level unstressed vowels into schwas (but you have to remember what they were, because you add an affix to the word and the stress changes!) I know cause a lot of difficulty for second-language learners.
It's possible, though difficult, for smaller companies to not suck. They tend to be very succesful. They grow. They reach a point where they're so big it's no longer possible for them to not suck. Then they continue to suck indefinitely after that:(
It's a matter of scale.
With a windows office, you drop off a few keyrings and sit back and relax. It's essentially done.
Yes, with a linux office, a determined and skilled attacker can still get in. Sure. No system is perfectly secure, and anywhere security is an issue you need a skilled and active administrator taking active countermeasures rather than expecting otherwise.
But look at the difference in both skill and effort required. You're talking about a highly skilled attacker spending countless hours in scouting, custom-building exploits, decrypting files... slowly and cleverly worming their way into a relatively secure-by-design system.
As opposed to anyone with no more technical knowledge than your average 14 year old being able to walk in the front door and take whatever you want.
If you're running as root you're a moron. You're right, there is no technical solution to moronitude.
Assuming a half-way competent administrator means there are no users running as root, and no confidential data stored in/home either. So the damage this could do is minimal.
Debian is a distributed community project with no real existence in a legal sense.
SPI (Software in the Public Interest) is a non-profit organisation created to handle things for Debian that require a legal existence. Like, for instance, having legal staff available.
I don't think it's about 'asking for permission' so much as simply letting their lawyers have time to look it over and raise objections if appropriate.
Re:surely many other system employ such an obvious
on
Net2phone Sues Skype
·
· Score: 0, Flamebait
At this rate, those countries heavily restricted by patents are going to fall competitively behind those countries who compete to innovate and improve quality and efficiency.
Which is exactly why the patent lawyers took over the one country that outspends everyone else on military first. That it has a president that thinks things like 'national sovereignty' are just outmoded nonsense, and believes himself Emperor of the World, is very helpful.
You see, the idea is to make sure there AREN'T any nations left that aren't restricted like this. That way there's no competition.
You know, no matter how 'moderate' someone is, they're unlikely to try and help an occupying army. It's a tough spot to be in. And occupation, as a rule, seems to result rather reliably in the radicalisation of a population and a marginalisation of any pre-existing moderates.
The moderates in Iraq right now are no doubt huddling inside praying that the insurgents and the occupation forces wipe each other out, and that they can manage to stay alive until that happens.
Slashdot Mirror
See, and that's the problem. 'The kind of money they're used to making' is what economists call a 'monopoly rent.' That kind of margin simply isn't achievable in a free market. That's why they have such a hard time changing their business model. They're addicted to those incredible margins.
I think userfriendly says it all.
Two year transition? Come on. Am I the only one that thinks this means the moment they try to do things differently he's going to step right back in and send them packing?
I think you're exactly right. I still don't see anything even vaguely resembling a free market in either case. ;)
Just how the heck do you figure that?
Neither place is anything like a free market, so you're comparing one mixed economy with another and somehow this comparison leads you to believe they're both better than a free market, which isn't part of your comparison?
Well, as I did say, I don't know exactly where the line is.
Low level programming is clearly programming. High level (i.e. C) is too. Scripts aren't. What can we deduce from that?
Perhaps that it has something to do with creating a program, that is to say, an executable that stands alone, rather than a script that another program interprets?
I said earlier that it has nothing to do with interpreted or compiled though, and I still think that's right. Or maybe just part right. Lisp is normally developed in an interpreter, but then compiled before distribution, right? But then again, I used to program on some early micros (I've only been 'not a programmer' for, umm... about ten years now.) That was in BASIC, through an interpreter, and there wasn't any other way to do it. Yeah, there was some low level programming, as I would write frequently performed routines in machine code and use peek and poke to run them, but it was still all wrapped up in a basic routine and handed to the interpreter to execute. But, in the context of the machine at least, it was a stand-alone executable, relying on nothing but what was built into the hardware to run.
I don't know. But it's clear that if scripting makes one a programmer then every grandmother that's figured out how to edit a shortcut is a programmer, and that just doesn't seem useful, does it?
Eh, not quite. Law has a more specific meaning in science.
A law is basically a mathematical formula that makes firm predictions.
For instance, in gravity, we have Newtons law. We also have Einsteins theory.
We know for a fact Newtons law isn't right, but it's predictions are so close to right under the conditions in our corner of the universe, it might as well be right. It allows you to predict gravitational effects quite quickly and precisely.
Einsteins theory doesn't have that immediate practical quality to it. While you can sit down from Einsteins theory and derive mathematical equations that make testable predictions, and in fact that's been done and those predictions are right and Newtons wrong in the cases where they disagree, no one in their right mind would try to use Einstein to calculate, for instance, a ballistic trajectory.
I don't consider PHP to be programming. It's a scripting language. The other stuff you mention I don't know, but it's my impression they're the same. It has nothing to do with whether it's compiled or not, or whether it's high or low level, because lisp, java, caml and the like are definitely the realm of programmers. (And yes, C is a high level language... what on earth do they teach kids in schools these days?)
Where is the line? I'm honestly not sure. Never really thought about it much. But you know there is one, as you said, HTML is not programming. (I've had people say I'm a programmer because I write HTML and PHP/SQL before though. The mind boggles.) But scripting isn't programming, it's normal use of the computer. Neither is markup. That's just basic communication.
Using algorithms and solving problems a piece at a time isn't programming, it's simply logic. Problem-solving skills. Stuff any literate human being does daily.
Of course in the broadest sense you could call all this 'programming' but that's very sloppy usage. Then to call someone a 'programmer' for doing these things is to dilute the word of all meaning. Anyone that's computer literate can edit a script or markup a text. Surely you don't mean to argue that makes us all 'programmers'?
You're not a programmer then. You're just computer literate.
Which is not a bad thing to be. I'm in the same shape. But it's just silly to call yourself a programmer just because you know how to *use* a computer.
Despite that, they don't really compete. Redhat is focused entirely on servers. They've deliberately avoided the 'desktop' market all along. Which is where Ubuntu is focused.
I do believe you're on to something.
;) but I'd definitely have some concerns...
I'm just not sure how practical it is.
The image I'm getting from your words is one where basically everything is outsourced. So you have a bunch of small companies doing one thing well, working for each other. Am I grokking you correctly?
Having been an outsourcer before, I'm all too aware that this has as much potential for harm as benefit. That doesn't mean I'm going to commit myself to saying the issues can't be fixed
It might have. Although I've been to England I can't say I've spent enough time there to be able to pick out the different local accents of the island. I do know that York was once a Viking kingdom, and that part of the country is supposed to have distinctive dialects showing Nordic influence to this day, so it wouldn't be surprising to find out they preserve that vowel there.
I won't claim to speak Norwegian, but I've had significant exposure to it and can often understand it. I speak Swedish fairly well, and so can obviously be much more confident of my judgement there, but I've also spent many hours listening to Norwegian (and Danish) lecturers speak - working in Nordic Linguistics that comes with the territory. At any rate, the Swedish vowel ö is what I was describing - for an English speaker 'hold your mouth for 'oo' then say 'ee' instead' is the best description. That ö is an open-mid front rounded vowel (IPA "oe" as a ligature, which for some reason slashdot won't actually let me print here) and all my books, as well as my rememberances from listening to Norwegians, say that the Norwegian and Danish "ø" is the same vowel. It doesn't exist in any dialect of English I know, but like I said, if there is an English dialect with that sound Yorkshire is exactly where I would expect to find it.
I can definitely sympathise with your frustration - I found the same thing, I learned to read and write Swedish very easily, but actually learning to make it come out of my mouth (or to understand a native speaker who doesn't slow down and speak very carefully for me) was much more challenging. English has a number of difficult and unusual features phonologically, and it takes time (and lots of exposure) to pick them up. Our 'th' sounds for instance, and our tendency to level unstressed vowels into schwas (but you have to remember what they were, because you add an affix to the word and the stress changes!) I know cause a lot of difficulty for second-language learners.
I think the problem is really one of size.
:(
It's possible, though difficult, for smaller companies to not suck. They tend to be very succesful. They grow. They reach a point where they're so big it's no longer possible for them to not suck. Then they continue to suck indefinitely after that
Only when 'sun' is pronounced with a heavy Norwegian accent. ;)
Just start by saying 'oo.' Freeze your mouth in that position. Now, keeping your mouth in that position, try to say 'ee' instead.
It's a matter of scale. With a windows office, you drop off a few keyrings and sit back and relax. It's essentially done. Yes, with a linux office, a determined and skilled attacker can still get in. Sure. No system is perfectly secure, and anywhere security is an issue you need a skilled and active administrator taking active countermeasures rather than expecting otherwise. But look at the difference in both skill and effort required. You're talking about a highly skilled attacker spending countless hours in scouting, custom-building exploits, decrypting files... slowly and cleverly worming their way into a relatively secure-by-design system. As opposed to anyone with no more technical knowledge than your average 14 year old being able to walk in the front door and take whatever you want.
If you're running as root you're a moron. You're right, there is no technical solution to moronitude.
/home either. So the damage this could do is minimal.
Assuming a half-way competent administrator means there are no users running as root, and no confidential data stored in
Judge already anticipated that. If they can't make this work, the deposition will be in a spot neither of them want...
Debian is a distributed community project with no real existence in a legal sense.
SPI (Software in the Public Interest) is a non-profit organisation created to handle things for Debian that require a legal existence. Like, for instance, having legal staff available.
I don't think it's about 'asking for permission' so much as simply letting their lawyers have time to look it over and raise objections if appropriate.
When, exactly, would BASIC be the best tool for a particular job?
Seriously?
The only time I can think of is if you just can't find anyone that knows how to program...
*cough* http:www.aros.org/ -> 404
Which is exactly why the patent lawyers took over the one country that outspends everyone else on military first. That it has a president that thinks things like 'national sovereignty' are just outmoded nonsense, and believes himself Emperor of the World, is very helpful.
You see, the idea is to make sure there AREN'T any nations left that aren't restricted like this. That way there's no competition.
The Mac version is slightly more spendy, but still available for $23.96, and supported up to the last patch.
You know, no matter how 'moderate' someone is, they're unlikely to try and help an occupying army. It's a tough spot to be in. And occupation, as a rule, seems to result rather reliably in the radicalisation of a population and a marginalisation of any pre-existing moderates.
The moderates in Iraq right now are no doubt huddling inside praying that the insurgents and the occupation forces wipe each other out, and that they can manage to stay alive until that happens.
Europa Universalis II should definitely make the list as well.