I highly doubt that America and England's long standing disdain for France has anything to do with their national healthcare system and workers' rights.
The words "effete snobbish elitism" or "sleezy" spring much more quickly to mind than "broken socialist healthcare system".
But for the settlers, making the land commericially productive was THEIR means of survival. Whether or not it's morally or ethically ok as judged by our modern society doesn't really change the fact that America was rich in untapped potential and the Indians hadn't utilized it to build empires, raise vast armies, develop science and weapons etc. Thus when the inevitable struggle over Earth's limited resources ensued they were doomed to loose from the start.
Even the Aztecs, who had vast numbers, a warlike heritage, and considerable wealth were quickly wiped out by just a few hundred Spaniards under Cortez.. they should have killed Cortez outright when they had the chance. Instead they really fucked themselves over by projecting their own expectations and customs onto Cortez, who had little regard for them and their ways. He capitalized on it and managed to bring down an empire of hundreds of thousands with just a few men. Well, that and the fact that the Aztecs were surrounded by hated enemies from theirmany years or wars and sacrificial-slave taking.
uh.. the reason America became profitable is becuase settlers took the land and did something USEFUL with it - we built factories, mines, businesses, oil wells, farmland, raised cattle etc.
Then we sold those good and services to other countries. Apart from limited farming, the indians didn't do much of anything commercially productive with it.
And guess what, the American settlers didnt do anything that hasnt been going on since the dawn of humanity - The stronger, more robust and more advanced societies replace the weaker ones, often by force. It's part of the human condition and it aint gonna change any time soon.
I dont think the points you raised makes our culture "Shitty" - imperfect yes, but not shitty.
Here in all areas of the Western world, women can appear in public without covering their bodies. We can follow our own religious paths without persecution. We can criticise our government without fear of death. We can congregate in public and private as per our own desires without fear of being jailed or tortured. Next time you are seriously injured or need a vaccine or antibiotics you can thank Western science and medicine. Of course the computer and the internet you are using right now was created in the West. So is the vehicle you drive. Show me how many times a Middle Eastern county has invented a spaceship, or designed a computer, or invented a new medical device. Democracy, freedom of thought, and Science and Technology are the merits by which I would rate a culture's value. What countries/cultures are propelling the advancement of the world along vs. dragging it back to the middle ages?
PS: You sound a bit bummed out about the American experience - Dont let it get to you. Life is a bitch no matter where you live. Just go out and bust your ass and work hard and live a good life. Be thankful you at least have the opportunty here in America to start your own busisness if you want, to travel and associate freely, and to live life without an oppressive regime always at your back. No one ever life would be easy or fair. Many common folks in the Middle East do not have such "luxeries" that we take for granted.
If you're such an anarchist what are you doing wasting time on Slashdot? go out and burn down your neighborhood or fight the power or something. leave this debate to the grown-ups
Come on know you its clear I meant North Korea..I just mistyped it. I did mention NK several times in that post and others. Implying that I can't tell the difference or dont care is a pathetically cheap shot and you know it.
Of course whenever the Left is up against anything they dont like they are the first ones to call people names. Aginst illegal immigration? well then you're a racist. Against gay marriage, well of course you must be a homophobe. Against Muslim Radicals getting their hands on nukes? Well that makes you a jingoistic hate monger. pathetic...
Those accusations carry no weight when used by the Left. The sooner everyone learns to laugh at, and ignore, those accusations the better off we all be.
I guess its "first rate trolling" When the Left is confroted with the harsh realties of the situation?
I never said anything about killing everyone who doesnt like America - if you hadn't noticed in the orginal post I addressed evil and dangerous goverments like those in Iran, Iraq, North Korea. Stop trying to misreprent what I said.
No you can't go around treating life like a game of Counterstrike, I never said you could. I only stated that I have no problem with America finshing off Saddam and others of his ilk.
Europe's answer to evil in the world obviously never worked. First they appeased Hitler until it was too late, then they relied on America to protect them from the Soviets, then when ethnic cleansing reared its head once again in Bosnia, did the Euros rush in and clamp down? of COURSE NOT.. they waited until America came in to throw its weight around. The European UN response to Milosivitch was, shall we say, less than overwhelming.... Fast forward to today - countries like Iran, Iraq, Syria etc are filling the world with hate filled nutballs desperately trying to get their hands on nukes and other WMDs to use on the "infidel" Israel,America, and Western Europe.
Do I agree with every single thing America has ever done? NO. Do I have a problem with taking out Afghanstan, Iraq, Iran, Syria etc? Hell NO.
You act like the countries at issue here are Australia or something just becuase they dont like us. If you can't tell the difference between North Korea and Iraq and Iran vs Australia then god help you. The former is threat to world peace and stability, the latter is not. Thus they have nothing to fear from us.
Exacly how to YOU propse to stop those people? a few more treaties? a few more abassadors? Strength and power and threat of anihilation is the only thing they respect. You think its a coincidence that Syria threw up its hands and started to come clean after we kicked the shit out of the Taliban and Saddam's empire?
Expecting those countries to play nice through negotiations is like expecting gang bangers to please stop living the thug lifestyle if you ask nicely enough. Aint gonna happen.
Please cite the numerous examples of America overthrowing peaceful democratic nations? Im not saying we havent pulled our share of shit - every county has. And its true we have supported nasty rulers from time to time (just like every other county has) But comapred to the Imperialism that built modern Britian and France, or the naked agression displayed by Germany or Japan, America looks like an angel in comparison.
And If you dont think that when cultures clash it's survival of the toughest and most resiliant, then you and I are on different planets. It's a self evident fact. Has nothing to do with being a bully. What do you live in a bubble or something?
>>>There was no threat to be eliminated, and as such it was not an act of protection
It was less an act of protection from immediate threat than it was taking out the trash. We had unfinished business from the Gulf War and Bush decided that since we were in Afghanistan anyway thanks to the Taliban we might as well do a little global housecleaning. The fact that Bush had to spin it with the WMD thing is a sad commentary on how far the left as eroded America's spine.
And from the way Iran has been acting lately, they should be next on the list unless Israel get to them first. Unlike America, the Left in Israel doesn't have such a loud whiney voice and I doubt they will stand around and let Iran get nukes whilst the left in the West debates and complains and wrings its hands over multicultural respect, human rights, worries about offending butchers etc.
Israel has learned the hard way that follwing a liberalist appeasement doctine would be the quickest way to get yourself wiped out when dealing with Islamic radicals.
Wake the hell up.. its either them or us.. Cultures have clashed and waged war upon each other since day one - Now is no different. Only the toughest and most resiliant culture will survive.
And damn straight we attacked Iraq - hell we had unfinished business from the Guld War. Too bad the rest of the pathetic world whines and cowers in the corner while a few countries like America, Britain, and Israel have to take on all the heavy liftng around the world trying confront first Communism and now Islam.
I guess America, being the most powerful and responsible country in the world does have to take on most of the burdon of keeping the world under control, but it would nice is other countries stopped bitching so much about it while we cover their asses. In their zeal to hate and denounce America, seems Europe has forgotten the fact that if America never existed in the 20th century, all of Europe would be under Nazi control, and if not Nazi control, then under Communist rule. Please explain how Europe brought down the Soviets with all their enlightened policies and values?
Does anyone seriously think that places like Iraq,Iran,South Koreas etc. would be not nuking the shit out of Europe and Israel if left unchecked? Do the Euros have some sort of dellusion that they wont be next on the list if America falls? Yea I guess Europe IS the expert on appeasing dictators and evil regimes. They really got it all figured out dont they? Yea Italy sure set a great example there after Madrid - pathetic cowards. The Euros are being intimidated by Muslims and are too afraid to stand up to them. Perhaps the shame they feel is why they hate us so much.
If the West doesn't remove those nations now, then in 20 years when your home town is a smoldering pile of ashes, your girlfriend has to wear a burkah or risk being beaten to death in the street and the world economy is thrown into the dark ages everyone will be lamenting and blaming America for not stopping the nutballs when we had the chance. I say fuck it - get rid of them all now.
and by the way.. the fact that I express an "attitude" should come as no suprise - Americans are getting sick and tired of the seeinly endless European condescension and elitist snobbery. Of course when you people act arrogant and obnoxious and appease dictators then its ok right, becuase you Euros are SO evolved and wonderful... give me a break..
Wow your resoponse was just filed with evidence to support your position.
The fact that the likes of Iran, Iraq, France, Germany, North Korea, etc. dont like us I take as a sign that we are doing something right. Like I said.. its easy for the Euros to act all smug and enlighted when we've had your asses covered for 50 years and they know that when the shit hits the fan our nuclear carriers, subs, and bombers will be around to bail them out. If China were to advance on
Taiwan I'd love to see how many European countries would denounce the action then shrug away and let America and Britain do all fighting.
Sorry but the truth hurts sometimes...
>>>You're too much "You think I'm not offended when every German is portrayed as a Nazi.. come on.." If idiots like the National Front and neo-nazi organizations weren't running around doing hate crimes then there would be no joke to make.
Hey I'm not all worked up about it.. I couldn't care less.. just saying that everything everyone does offends someone else. Quit acting like offending someone is so horrible. Well we wouldnt dare want to make a joke that might hurt someones feelings!
>>>>I don't see how the existance of suicide bombers in Palestine justifies a gang beating up a pregnant Iraqi woman in her home in Oklahoma city.
What does that have to do with jokes offending people? and I'd hardly call the condemnation of the world's Islamic community as strong or overwhelming. Deafening Silence is more like it. If enough Oklahomans started beating up pregant Iraqi women over long enough time then I'd understand it if a stereotype about redneck anti-Islamic Oklahomans sprang up.
But hey if that were the case then youd better not make ajoke about it, lest you offend the non-Iraqi-beating redneck-Oklahomans. It might hurt their feelings!
Well considering the fact that the original joke was about Simpsons in ARABIC FOR MUSLIM AUDIENCES and then people started bringing up all sorts of stuff about Kamikazes and Tamil Tigers etc. Seem to me I've won the argument becuase no one can come up with any evidence to point to all these supposed sterotype-dispelling examples of non-muslim sucide bombers in the middle east. Now you are reduced to essentailly saying "well.. yea the Middle East does have Muslim bombers.. but hey, what about them Tamil Tigers! they do it too!"
So then the thread turned to why it's bad to stereotype and how its logic etc... ignoring the fact that in the example of the orignal joke about the Middle East, the stereotype is totally accurate. I didnt get into this thread to debate the nuances of world suicde bombers or the social impact of stereotyoing - only to defend one man's right to make a joke without getting shit from the left becuase it offends their delicate sensibilities.
Of course he HAS the right to say what he wants - but more and more the Left are starting to equate offending someone with illegality. They should never be equated. But if you disagree with anything the radical Left thinks then sudenly you are a racist, hate- mongering homophobe facist whose opinions and free speech must be supressed and dsicounted at all costs. If people don't stand up to that shit then eventually they win by default.
Anyway.. lets all move onto to another thread and argue about something new, shall we?
Big deal.. so you are offended.. deal with it. You think I'm not offended when every German is portrayed as a Nazi.. come on.. you people are too much. If fuckheads like Hammas weren't running around blowing themsleves up then there would be no joke to make.
And as for Hate crimes.. how about the hate crime of suicide bombers in Palestine blowing up innocent civilian shopkeepers or cutting off people's head while filming it and shouting "Alla is Great!" or crashing planes into skyscrapers Guess what.. THAT offend ME.. sorry if I dont seem too bent out of shape over the whole thing.
I have never changed any arguments - I've only responded to comments others have made, which results in the thread veering off onto tangents.
And I never said the entire middle east was backwards - only most of it. And Yes - I blame Islam for a huge part of the. Theocratic or monarchical rule is inherently flawed and unjust. Europe was the same way in the middle ages. I'm not saying the West was never like the middle east, only that we got past it for the most part with the Industrial Revolition and the Age of Enlightenment. Several assholes like Stalin, Hitler, Napolean etc really set us back along the way, but regardless. Trying to bring up the fact that 2000 years ago Babylon was a great center of trade, commerce, and science is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
If the majority of the Muslim world wasn't backwards and poor, then millions of people today would be leaving Europe and West for the Middle East, not the other way around.
You seem to be trying oh so hard to argue that the the Middle East is not a backwards and oppresive part of the world. Fine if that's your opinion then it's obvious no amount of common sense or evidence will change your mind. That is your perogative.
You might try moving to Jordan, Syria, Iran or Egypt etc. According to you they are bastions of forward thought,sciene,technology, and democracy compared to us primitive Americans. I'm sure you'll have a wonderful time there.
I prefer to live and enjoy life here in the West and not worry about being beheaded by my government or having a fatwah put on me becuase I write something critical. Nor do I have to worry about having my relatives stoned for adultery. I'm funny like that.
>>>I think most of the fear that other countries claim to have of the US in really a fear of themselves. They look and see how much power the US has and know how they would abuse it in the US's place.
Damn straight! Look what Germany, Britain,Italy,France etc. all did when they were superpowers of their time - World Wars, Massice opression and slavery far larger in scope than anything America ever did. All this nonsense talk about America being so agressive is a joke.
If were were truly so aggresive, we would have conqured everyone by now and places like Japan would be American colonies. Instead we had to go and get sucked into shit like Bosnia becuase the Euros couldnt even solve THAT pipsqeak problem on their own. How pathetic. If not for our nukes in Germany, the whole thig would be moot becuase they would all be part of the Soviet Empire now.. Its easy to talk shit when someone like Amercia spent 50 years protecting your ass from the Soviets. Same thing in Korea.. if they want us out so bad.. fine - lets see how you fare against North Korea by youselves. Worked out really well for the South Vietnamese when we left right?
America needs to wake up and stop doing all the heavy lifting in the world if all they do its bitch and whine. At least a few Euros like Blair have their heads on straight. Chirac and Schroeder are pathetic.
I have no inherent ill-will towards Europe - my ancestors are from Germany and Scandinavia, but shit all they seem to do is whine and complain. booh hoo
Well lets see.. I saw an interview with Marines on TV and they reported that some of the civilians over there kept checking their teeth to see if they were vampires becuase they could see and work in the dark (using night vision equipment of course) Those same civilians had never seen a plastic water bottle.
A recent poll among Muslims on adultery had something like 40 percent of the respondants saying they thought the punishment for women should be death. and like 15 o 20 percent of those saying death was too harsh agreed that cutting off the ears or the nose would be better.
And yes of course they force Islamic doctrine to be taught. DUH! The Koran is a creatinist doctrine. Unless you want to point out the verses dealing with Darwinist Evolution to me, in which case I'll admit defeat on that point.
Are you seriuously trying to assert that a culture that forces women to be invisible to society by covering their entire body and doesn't let them drive, etc. is not a culture living in the dark ages? By every standard of science and technology you can come up with, the Middle East - except for a few places perhaps like Dubai and some areas of Saudi Arabia - are hopelessly backward. Hell they can't even run their own oil fields without experts from the West.
When is the last time you saw a new computer, engine, surgical technique, vaccine, rocket, or pretty much anything else come out of the Middle East. And those Arabic scientists who DO invent such things were invariable trained in the West.
>>>Well the liberals use stereotypes, so it's therefore OK for me to do the same" >>>Very bad logic
Please.. get off your intellectual high-horse. You and everyone else uses stereotypes all the time whether you are concious of it or not. Jesus can't you people enjoy a funny joke and just let things rest without getting bent out of shape? Go back and read the original joke the guy made and have a nice laugh abd turn off your liberal intellectualist filters for one nanosecond.
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I highly doubt that America and England's long standing disdain for France has anything to do with their national healthcare system and workers' rights. The words "effete snobbish elitism" or "sleezy" spring much more quickly to mind than "broken socialist healthcare system".
True.. and Cortez/Pizarro weren't quite so "generous" in Mexico and South America
But for the settlers, making the land commericially productive was THEIR means of survival. Whether or not it's morally or ethically ok as judged by our modern society doesn't really change the fact that America was rich in untapped potential and the Indians hadn't utilized it to build empires, raise vast armies, develop science and weapons etc. Thus when the inevitable struggle over Earth's limited resources ensued they were doomed to loose from the start.
Even the Aztecs, who had vast numbers, a warlike heritage, and considerable wealth were quickly wiped out by just a few hundred Spaniards under Cortez.. they should have killed Cortez outright when they had the chance. Instead they really fucked themselves over by projecting their own expectations and customs onto Cortez, who had little regard for them and their ways. He capitalized on it and managed to bring down an empire of hundreds of thousands with just a few men. Well, that and the fact that the Aztecs were surrounded by hated enemies from theirmany years or wars and sacrificial-slave taking.
Mexifornia? Mexazona? I cant wait!
uh.. the reason America became profitable is becuase settlers took the land and did something USEFUL with it - we built factories, mines, businesses, oil wells, farmland, raised cattle etc.
Then we sold those good and services to other countries. Apart from limited farming, the indians didn't do much of anything commercially productive with it.
And guess what, the American settlers didnt do anything that hasnt been going on since the dawn of humanity - The stronger, more robust and more advanced societies replace the weaker ones, often by force. It's part of the human condition and it aint gonna change any time soon.
I dont think the points you raised makes our culture "Shitty" - imperfect yes, but not shitty.
Here in all areas of the Western world, women can appear in public without covering their bodies. We can follow our own religious paths without persecution. We can criticise our government without fear of death. We can congregate in public and private as per our own desires without fear of being jailed or tortured. Next time you are seriously injured or need a vaccine or antibiotics you can thank Western science and medicine. Of course the computer and the internet you are using right now was created in the West. So is the vehicle you drive. Show me how many times a Middle Eastern county has invented a spaceship, or designed a computer, or invented a new medical device. Democracy, freedom of thought, and Science and Technology are the merits by which I would rate a culture's value. What countries/cultures are propelling the advancement of the world along vs. dragging it back to the middle ages?
PS: You sound a bit bummed out about the American experience - Dont let it get to you. Life is a bitch no matter where you live. Just go out and bust your ass and work hard and live a good life. Be thankful you at least have the opportunty here in America to start your own busisness if you want, to travel and associate freely, and to live life without an oppressive regime always at your back. No one ever life would be easy or fair. Many common folks in the Middle East do not have such "luxeries" that we take for granted.
LOL you're pretty funny "biatch".. and weird...
If you're such an anarchist what are you doing wasting time on Slashdot? go out and burn down your neighborhood or fight the power or something. leave this debate to the grown-ups
thats pretty funny.. Im not sure if our genes are superior to theirs.. cultures yes, genes no.
Come on know you its clear I meant North Korea..I just mistyped it. I did mention NK several times in that post and others. Implying that I can't tell the difference or dont care is a pathetically cheap shot and you know it.
Of course whenever the Left is up against anything they dont like they are the first ones to call people names. Aginst illegal immigration? well then you're a racist. Against gay marriage, well of course you must be a homophobe. Against Muslim Radicals getting their hands on nukes? Well that makes you a jingoistic hate monger. pathetic...
Those accusations carry no weight when used by the Left. The sooner everyone learns to laugh at, and ignore, those accusations the better off we all be.
I guess its "first rate trolling" When the Left is confroted with the harsh realties of the situation?
.... Fast forward to today - countries like Iran, Iraq, Syria etc are filling the world with hate filled nutballs desperately trying to get their hands on nukes and other WMDs to use on the "infidel" Israel,America, and Western Europe.
I never said anything about killing everyone who doesnt like America - if you hadn't noticed in the orginal post I addressed evil and dangerous goverments like those in Iran, Iraq, North Korea. Stop trying to misreprent what I said.
No you can't go around treating life like a game of Counterstrike, I never said you could. I only stated that I have no problem with America finshing off Saddam and others of his ilk.
Europe's answer to evil in the world obviously never worked. First they appeased Hitler until it was too late, then they relied on America to protect them from the Soviets, then when ethnic cleansing reared its head once again in Bosnia, did the Euros rush in and clamp down? of COURSE NOT.. they waited until America came in to throw its weight around. The European UN response to Milosivitch was, shall we say, less than overwhelming
Do I agree with every single thing America has ever done? NO. Do I have a problem with taking out Afghanstan, Iraq, Iran, Syria etc? Hell NO.
You act like the countries at issue here are Australia or something just becuase they dont like us. If you can't tell the difference between North Korea and Iraq and Iran vs Australia then god help you. The former is threat to world peace and stability, the latter is not. Thus they have nothing to fear from us.
Exacly how to YOU propse to stop those people? a few more treaties? a few more abassadors? Strength and power and threat of anihilation is the only thing they respect. You think its a coincidence that Syria threw up its hands and started to come clean after we kicked the shit out of the Taliban and Saddam's empire?
Expecting those countries to play nice through negotiations is like expecting gang bangers to please stop living the thug lifestyle if you ask nicely enough. Aint gonna happen.
Please cite the numerous examples of America overthrowing peaceful democratic nations? Im not saying we havent pulled our share of shit - every county has. And its true we have supported nasty rulers from time to time (just like every other county has) But comapred to the Imperialism that built modern Britian and France, or the naked agression displayed by Germany or Japan, America looks like an angel in comparison.
And If you dont think that when cultures clash it's survival of the toughest and most resiliant, then you and I are on different planets. It's a self evident fact. Has nothing to do with being a bully. What do you live in a bubble or something?
>>>There was no threat to be eliminated, and as such it was not an act of protection
It was less an act of protection from immediate threat than it was taking out the trash. We had unfinished business from the Gulf War and Bush decided that since we were in Afghanistan anyway thanks to the Taliban we might as well do a little global housecleaning. The fact that Bush had to spin it with the WMD thing is a sad commentary on how far the left as eroded America's spine.
And from the way Iran has been acting lately, they should be next on the list unless Israel get to them first. Unlike America, the Left in Israel doesn't have such a loud whiney voice and I doubt they will stand around and let Iran get nukes whilst the left in the West debates and complains and wrings its hands over multicultural respect, human rights, worries about offending butchers etc.
Israel has learned the hard way that follwing a liberalist appeasement doctine would be the quickest way to get yourself wiped out when dealing with Islamic radicals.
Welcome to LeftDot. Where you been?
Wake the hell up.. its either them or us.. Cultures have clashed and waged war upon each other since day one - Now is no different. Only the toughest and most resiliant culture will survive.
And damn straight we attacked Iraq - hell we had unfinished business from the Guld War. Too bad the rest of the pathetic world whines and cowers in the corner while a few countries like America, Britain, and Israel have to take on all the heavy liftng around the world trying confront first Communism and now Islam.
I guess America, being the most powerful and responsible country in the world does have to take on most of the burdon of keeping the world under control, but it would nice is other countries stopped bitching so much about it while we cover their asses. In their zeal to hate and denounce America, seems Europe has forgotten the fact that if America never existed in the 20th century, all of Europe would be under Nazi control, and if not Nazi control, then under Communist rule. Please explain how Europe brought down the Soviets with all their enlightened policies and values?
Does anyone seriously think that places like Iraq,Iran,South Koreas etc. would be not nuking the shit out of Europe and Israel if left unchecked? Do the Euros have some sort of dellusion that they wont be next on the list if America falls? Yea I guess Europe IS the expert on appeasing dictators and evil regimes. They really got it all figured out dont they? Yea Italy sure set a great example there after Madrid - pathetic cowards. The Euros are being intimidated by Muslims and are too afraid to stand up to them. Perhaps the shame they feel is why they hate us so much.
If the West doesn't remove those nations now, then in 20 years when your home town is a smoldering pile of ashes, your girlfriend has to wear a burkah or risk being beaten to death in the street and the world economy is thrown into the dark ages everyone will be lamenting and blaming America for not stopping the nutballs when we had the chance. I say fuck it - get rid of them all now.
Hypercards' decendants have come a LONG LONG way since those days... check out: http://www.runrev.com/ and download the demo support list archives can be found at: http://mail.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/
Have a nice time. Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.
and by the way.. the fact that I express an "attitude" should come as no suprise - Americans are getting sick and tired of the seeinly endless European condescension and elitist snobbery. Of course when you people act arrogant and obnoxious and appease dictators then its ok right, becuase you Euros are SO evolved and wonderful... give me a break..
Wow your resoponse was just filed with evidence to support your position. The fact that the likes of Iran, Iraq, France, Germany, North Korea, etc. dont like us I take as a sign that we are doing something right. Like I said.. its easy for the Euros to act all smug and enlighted when we've had your asses covered for 50 years and they know that when the shit hits the fan our nuclear carriers, subs, and bombers will be around to bail them out. If China were to advance on Taiwan I'd love to see how many European countries would denounce the action then shrug away and let America and Britain do all fighting. Sorry but the truth hurts sometimes...
>>>You're too much "You think I'm not offended when every German is portrayed as a Nazi.. come on.." If idiots like the National Front and neo-nazi organizations weren't running around doing hate crimes then there would be no joke to make.
Hey I'm not all worked up about it.. I couldn't care less.. just saying that everything everyone does offends someone else. Quit acting like offending someone is so horrible. Well we wouldnt dare want to make a joke that might hurt someones feelings!
>>>>I don't see how the existance of suicide bombers in Palestine justifies a gang beating up a pregnant Iraqi woman in her home in Oklahoma city.
What does that have to do with jokes offending people? and I'd hardly call the condemnation of the world's Islamic community as strong or overwhelming. Deafening Silence is more like it. If enough Oklahomans started beating up pregant Iraqi women over long enough time then I'd understand it if a stereotype about redneck anti-Islamic Oklahomans sprang up.
But hey if that were the case then youd better not make ajoke about it, lest you offend the non-Iraqi-beating redneck-Oklahomans. It might hurt their feelings!
Well considering the fact that the original joke was about Simpsons in ARABIC FOR MUSLIM AUDIENCES and then people started bringing up all sorts of stuff about Kamikazes and Tamil Tigers etc. Seem to me I've won the argument becuase no one can come up with any evidence to point to all these supposed sterotype-dispelling examples of non-muslim sucide bombers in the middle east. Now you are reduced to essentailly saying "well.. yea the Middle East does have Muslim bombers.. but hey, what about them Tamil Tigers! they do it too!"
So then the thread turned to why it's bad to stereotype and how its logic etc... ignoring the fact that in the example of the orignal joke about the Middle East, the stereotype is totally accurate. I didnt get into this thread to debate the nuances of world suicde bombers or the social impact of stereotyoing - only to defend one man's right to make a joke without getting shit from the left becuase it offends their delicate sensibilities.
Of course he HAS the right to say what he wants - but more and more the Left are starting to equate offending someone with illegality. They should never be equated. But if you disagree with anything the radical Left thinks then sudenly you are a racist, hate- mongering homophobe facist whose opinions and free speech must be supressed and dsicounted at all costs. If people don't stand up to that shit then eventually they win by default.
Anyway.. lets all move onto to another thread and argue about something new, shall we?
Big deal.. so you are offended.. deal with it. You think I'm not offended when every German is portrayed as a Nazi.. come on.. you people are too much. If fuckheads like Hammas weren't running around blowing themsleves up then there would be no joke to make. And as for Hate crimes.. how about the hate crime of suicide bombers in Palestine blowing up innocent civilian shopkeepers or cutting off people's head while filming it and shouting "Alla is Great!" or crashing planes into skyscrapers Guess what.. THAT offend ME.. sorry if I dont seem too bent out of shape over the whole thing.
I have never changed any arguments - I've only responded to comments others have made, which results in the thread veering off onto tangents.
And I never said the entire middle east was backwards - only most of it. And Yes - I blame Islam for a huge part of the. Theocratic or monarchical rule is inherently flawed and unjust. Europe was the same way in the middle ages. I'm not saying the West was never like the middle east, only that we got past it for the most part with the Industrial Revolition and the Age of Enlightenment. Several assholes like Stalin, Hitler, Napolean etc really set us back along the way, but regardless. Trying to bring up the fact that 2000 years ago Babylon was a great center of trade, commerce, and science is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
If the majority of the Muslim world wasn't backwards and poor, then millions of people today would be leaving Europe and West for the Middle East, not the other way around.
You seem to be trying oh so hard to argue that the the Middle East is not a backwards and oppresive part of the world. Fine if that's your opinion then it's obvious no amount of common sense or evidence will change your mind. That is your perogative.
You might try moving to Jordan, Syria, Iran or Egypt etc. According to you they are bastions of forward thought,sciene,technology, and democracy compared to us primitive Americans. I'm sure you'll have a wonderful time there.
I prefer to live and enjoy life here in the West and not worry about being beheaded by my government or having a fatwah put on me becuase I write something critical. Nor do I have to worry about having my relatives stoned for adultery. I'm funny like that.
>>>I think most of the fear that other countries claim to have of the US in really a fear of themselves. They look and see how much power the US has and know how they would abuse it in the US's place.
Damn straight! Look what Germany, Britain,Italy,France etc. all did when they were superpowers of their time - World Wars, Massice opression and slavery far larger in scope than anything America ever did. All this nonsense talk about America being so agressive is a joke.
If were were truly so aggresive, we would have conqured everyone by now and places like Japan would be American colonies. Instead we had to go and get sucked into shit like Bosnia becuase the Euros couldnt even solve THAT pipsqeak problem on their own. How pathetic. If not for our nukes in Germany, the whole thig would be moot becuase they would all be part of the Soviet Empire now.. Its easy to talk shit when someone like Amercia spent 50 years protecting your ass from the Soviets. Same thing in Korea.. if they want us out so bad.. fine - lets see how you fare against North Korea by youselves. Worked out really well for the South Vietnamese when we left right?
America needs to wake up and stop doing all the heavy lifting in the world if all they do its bitch and whine. At least a few Euros like Blair have their heads on straight. Chirac and Schroeder are pathetic.
I have no inherent ill-will towards Europe - my ancestors are from Germany and Scandinavia, but shit all they seem to do is whine and complain. booh hoo
Well lets see.. I saw an interview with Marines on TV and they reported that some of the civilians over there kept checking their teeth to see if they were vampires becuase they could see and work in the dark (using night vision equipment of course) Those same civilians had never seen a plastic water bottle.
A recent poll among Muslims on adultery had something like 40 percent of the respondants saying they thought the punishment for women should be death. and like 15 o 20 percent of those saying death was too harsh agreed that cutting off the ears or the nose would be better.
And yes of course they force Islamic doctrine to be taught. DUH! The Koran is a creatinist doctrine. Unless you want to point out the verses dealing with Darwinist Evolution to me, in which case I'll admit defeat on that point.
Are you seriuously trying to assert that a culture that forces women to be invisible to society by covering their entire body and doesn't let them drive, etc. is not a culture living in the dark ages? By every standard of science and technology you can come up with, the Middle East - except for a few places perhaps like Dubai and some areas of Saudi Arabia - are hopelessly backward. Hell they can't even run their own oil fields without experts from the West.
When is the last time you saw a new computer, engine, surgical technique, vaccine, rocket, or pretty much anything else come out of the Middle East. And those Arabic scientists who DO invent such things were invariable trained in the West.
>>>Well the liberals use stereotypes, so it's therefore OK for me to do the same"
>>>Very bad logic
Please.. get off your intellectual high-horse. You and everyone else uses stereotypes all the time whether you are concious of it or not. Jesus can't you people enjoy a funny joke and just let things rest without getting bent out of shape? Go back and read the original joke the guy made and have a nice laugh abd turn off your liberal intellectualist filters for one nanosecond.