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Behind The Curtain On T-Day
Ant writes "MSN Encarta has Columnist Martha Brockenbrough's article on the myths of this American holiday. From the article: 'A lot of what we know to be true about Thanksgiving really isn't. Determining exactly what did happen is difficult. For starters, we don't even know for certain if the Pilgrims served turkey, although it's a strong possibility.'" Additionally, maotx writes "Contrary to popular belief, turkey does not make you sleepy. While purified tryptophan is a mild sleep-inducing agent, there is not enough in turkey to have a sedative affect. And on top of that, turkey isn't even unusually high in tryptophan compared to other foods, such as beef or soybeans. So for those of us enjoying turkey today, bring on the turkey and have a Happy Thanksgiving!"
... that's why the beer goes with it.
The first myth about Thanksgiving is that it occurs in November. Everyone knows that the real Thanksgiving happens in October.
"Tomorrow's forecast: a few sprinkles of genius with a chance of doom!" - Stewie Griffin
"While purified tryptophan is a mild sleep-inducing agent, there is not enough in turkey to have a sedative affect" Well, the author must have eaten something to make him forget the differences between "effect" and "affect!"
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I've gotten to the point where I can't stand turkey any more. You cook a huge bird and eat it for the next month, then do it all again for Christmas. This year I'm staging a revolt and eating steak.
If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
What do the North American Indians celebrate?
Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
At least for those of us in the UK
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Does it actually exist outside The US of A or am I a total ignoramis or both?
I notice she doesn't even bring up the point that there is a lot of evidence that the first Thanksgiving in the New World was held in Virginia (I believe at Berkley Plantation). There's evidence both ways, but the VA Thanksgiving has enough backing it that it can't be ignored.
But suggesting to most Americans that it wasn't the Pilgrims must be a little too much for some to consider.
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/7961/thanks2th. jpg
google.slashdot
...computers and positive karma on /.
Turkey doesn't make you sleepy?! Now how am I going to get my girlfriend to fall asleep so I can play with the antique toys she won't let me touch?
Be better in bed. Wikiafterdark!
As a European from Southern Europe, I only know about thanksgiving from American movies and television. Same goes for Halloween (although we do have carnivals the last 3 Sundays before the 40-day fasting for Easter).
There is a trend, though, to "internationalize" these American celebrations, mainly for consuming purposes I guess (part of the globalization matters).
I'll let others talk about their experience.
I speak England very best
here's another part of it i found interesting:
-doviende
"The value of a man resides in what he gives,
and not in what he is capable of receiving."
--Albert Einstein
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
1) Antique? How old IS she, anyway? 2) How long have you guys been together?;-)
but eating turkey does.
"better ways of doing things eventually just replace the inferior things" - Linus Torvalds 09-08-07
Ha, if the pilgrims had not been locked into a proprietary file format, we would know what really happened...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Day_of_Mourn ing
gosu l33t gamer style :
h xgiving.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v344/MikeSty/kt
Why don't you just buy a smaller turkey? 2 people can polish off a 10-12 pound turkey in less than a week, easily, especially if you make soup out of what's left over after a few days. Or you can freeze it for another time when you don't feel like roasting a whole bird.
From what I remember on my research into serotonin..
Tryptophan is an amino acid that is used by the brain to manufacture serotonin. It's present in all protein, and usually you have plenty of it in your bloodstream. However, it can only get into the brain piggybacked on another molecule, and it has to compete with other amino acids for this ride. One way to soak up the other amino acids is to produce insulin with a carbohydrate-only meal. The insulin removes enough of those amino acids to allow more tryptophan into the brain, thereby providing more raw material for serotonin production.
I'm sticking with the Prozac though.
i'm sure she'd be open to you playing with her toys if you didn't refer to them as "antiques."
wait, are we talking about the same thing?
</easyjoke>
This tradition stems from the Middle Ages. There is a similar day for prayer for crops (and labor), which is on the second Wednesday in March.
I have no idea if this holds any relation with Thanksgiving as is celebrated in the USA. The way it is "celebrated" in the Netherlands is that there is a special service in church where respectively prayer and thanksgiving for the crops are explicitely mentioned. There is nothing like special food or even families coming together for it. Just some people going to church.
..it's a cool holiday anyone can adopt if they so choose, and a great excuse to have a feast and kick back and chow down and relax.
I'm all in favor of MORE holidays! I think a nice one to one ratio with regular plain vanilla work days is appropriate...
Before eating turkey, have a short thought about what the animal that you are about to eat might have gone through to become your food. Would you like to suffer to be eaten? Just give it a thought.
I'm not a troll, just a vegetarian.
This Smithsonian article covers some of the same ground in much better and revealing detail. Via a diarist at dkos.
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
I give thanks for not living in a country filled with George W's, RIAA's and patent offices.
:D
Let's celebrate!
*Ducks flying tomato*
" there is not enough in turkey to have a sedative affect."
I'm not inclined to believe this since the guy can't even spell effect right...
One of the other posters here is correct, the Virginia colony very likely had a harvest festival before the Plymouth colony did, if for no other reason than they started a dozen years earlier with exactly the same communal-property=starvation results.
t ml
However, if we are going to discuss the "why"s and "wherefore"s, it would be educational to remember that William Branford, the first governor of the Plymouth colony, wrote it all up.
Here are some articles with links to the original:
From http://www.mises.org/story/336
In his 'History of Plymouth Plantation,' the governor of the colony, William Bradford, reported that the colonists went hungry for years, because they refused to work in the fields. They preferred instead to steal food. He says the colony was riddled with "corruption," and with "confusion and discontent." The crops were small because "much was stolen both by night and day, before it became scarce eatable."
And from https://www.mises.org/story/1678
The Pilgrims' unhappiness was caused by their system of common property (not adopted, as often asserted, from their religious convictions, but required against their will by the colony's sponsors). The fruits of each person's efforts went to the community, and each received a share from the common wealth. This caused severe strains among the members, as Colony Governor William Bradford recorded:
" . . . the young men . . . did repine that they should spend their time and strength to work for other men's wives and children without any recompense. The strong . . . had not more in division . . . than he that was weak and not able to do a quarter the other could; this was thought injustice. The aged and graver men to be ranked and equalized in labors and victuals, clothes, etc . . . thought it some indignity and disrespect unto them. And the men's wives to be commanded to do service for other men, as dressing their meat, washing their clothes, etc., they deemed it a kind of slavery, neither could many husbands well brook it."
Or if you really just want the undigested original:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1650bradford.h
"The experience that was had in this common course and condition, tried sundry years and that amongst godly and sober men, may well evince the vanity of that conceit of Plato's and other ancients applauded by some of later times; and that the taking away of property and bringing in community into a commonwealth would make them happy and flourishing; as if they were wiser than God. For this community (so far as it was) was found to breed much confusion and discontent and retard much employment that would have been to their benefit and comfort."
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
fuck off.
Contrary to popular belief, turkey does not make you sleepy. While purified tryptophan is a mild sleep-inducing agent, there is not enough in turkey to have a sedative affect.
First of all: EFFECT. Sheesh.
Secondly, the explanation "tryptophan" came about to awnser the question "why do we all feel sleepy after eating the turkey". So if the explanation is wrong, it doesn't mean the observation was: Double sheesh!
You can't take the sky from me...
She won't let you touch her TI486?
I can't imagine that I'm the only one who was expecting to see a picture of Dave Chapelle as Rick James yelling "It's a celebration, bitch!"
video here
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Slashdot is really falling behind. Thanksgiving WAS IN OCTOBER!
Duh.
But thanks for asking, I had a wonderful 10kg Turkey, stuffed with Carrots, Onions, & Celery. Home-made turkey blood gravey.
Mashed Potatoes, Cranberries, and pan-fried sweet peppers.
as i see it, tfa's argument goes something like this; tryptophan might be a precursor to seritonin but it cant pass through the blood brain barrier so it cant be "psychoactive" or more specifically soporific. well thats a real nice piece of logic. so i guess the fact that their are a _tonne_ of seritonin receptors _outside_ the brain, and in particular throughout the gut, that regulate blood to facilitate digestion, couldnt possibly have any kind of sedative effect.
people, most anyone can tell you turky does make you sleepy, particularly if your a bit deficient anyway, and only eat insufficient protein foods most of the time. But more importantly when you wakeup you feel refreshed and rejuvinated, and enjoy increased mental stamina (cause of the 5ht duh! (within limits))
The keys to tha vault everyone else uses: red wine.
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The Pilgrims should have served cats then we'd all be eating pussy for dinner.
Why not check out the article on the Wikipedia instead?
stage a revolt and eat tofurkey! it tastes awesome (if cooked right) and will give you a food coma for real
Don't call those parts antique toys and she might let you touch and play with them while she's awake.
The "post-prandial dip" occurs in people who are bedridden and IV-fed, and is actually accompanied by a decrease in body temp - which means it's not due to a rise in body temp or a result of eating.
There is on top of that a sleepiness after meals that comes from a dip in blood sugar once insulin kicks in following the ingeston of sugars. The feedback loop of blood sugar and insulin is usually a bit laggy.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
who cares?
Wait a minute....wasn't that a Seinfeld episode? Or am I just drunk from too much turkey?
Lincoln's original 1863 Thanksgiving Proclamation
The year that is drawing toward its close has been filled with the blessings of fruitful years and healthful skies. To these bounties, which are so constantly enjoyed that we are prone to forget the Source from which they come, others have been added which are of so extraordinary a nature that they can not fail to penetrate and soften even the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever-watchful providence of Almighty God.
In the midst of a civil war of unequaled magnitude and severity, which has sometimes seemed to foreign states to invite and to provoke their aggression, peace has been preserved with all nations, order has been maintained, the laws have been respected and obeyed, and harmony has prevailed everywhere, except in the theater of military conflict, while that theater has been greatly contracted by the advancing armies and navies of the Union.
Needful diversions of wealth and of strength from the field of peaceful industry to the national defense have not arrested the plow, the shuttle, or the ship; the ax has enlarged the borders of our settlements, and the mines, as well of iron and coal as of the precious metals, have yielded even more abundantly than theretofore. Population has steadily increased notwithstanding the waste that has been made in the camp, the siege, and the battlefield, and the country, rejoicing in the consciousness of augmented strength and vigor, is permitted to expect continuance of years with large increase of freedom.
No human counsel hath devised nor hath any mortal hand worked out these great things. They are the gracious gifts of the Most High God, who, while dealing with us in anger for our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy.
It has seemed to me fit and proper that they should be solemnly, reverently, and gratefully acknowledged, as with one heart and one voice, by the whole American people. I do therefore invite my fellow-citizens in every part of the United States, and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands, to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next as a day of thanksgiving and praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the heavens. And I recommend to them that while offering up the ascriptions justly due to Him for such singular deliverances and blessings they do also, with humble penitence for our national perverseness and disobedience, commend to His tender care all those who have become widows, orphans, mourners, or sufferers in the lamentable civil strife in which we are unavoidably engaged, and fervently implore the interposition of the Almighty Hand to heal the wounds of the nation and to restore it, as soon as may be consistent with the Divine purposes, to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquility, and union.
In testimony wherof I have herunto set my hand and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed.
[Signed]
A. Lincoln
lol...yes, to both.
Be better in bed. Wikiafterdark!
they missed the chemical boat: tryptophan was the basis for nearly all anti-depressants for at least a couple of decades. It's also no accident that most low dosage anti-depressants are taken shortly before what is supposedly a normal sleep time for the patient. Tryptophan occurs in some quantity in turkey, but how often do we eat turkey? If you want a nice steady diet of over the counter, low-side effect anti depressant, try a nice peanut butter sandwich before bed. Lots of trypto in PB. Yum.
He either pulled your leg, or you are pulling ours. I am in germany right now, lived east, lived north, now I am in Hessen. *NOWHERE* kristallnacht is "celebrated". Maybe in secret, in right wing neo nazi family, and in the basement. But certainly not by normal people from the street.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Her tits?
Yes yes, boo me straight to hell. It was worth it.
That's what bugged me about the Wikipedia article. It's traditionally a religious festive day, is it not ?
But the "relig" (religion, religious, etc.) doesn't even appear on the wiki page.
Now, I know it's probably not viewed as a religious festive day anymore, and more of a social/family gathering thing. But what do people here think ? Thanksgiving Day is a religiuous festive day - yes or no ?
After years of living on the other side of the country away from my family, all I ever wanted for Thanksgiving dinner was a pizza.
:)
Twelve years of friends telling me I could not spend Thanksgiving day by myself, I was tortured by surrogate families who did not understand that all I wanted was a pizza and beer, and maybe a decent footbal game.
Two years ago, when visiting my sister on Thanksgiving Day, she made me a large "DiGornio" pepperoni pizza. That day, I truly gave Thanks.
Today's show is brought to you by the number 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0: 25
My grandmas home cooking and my Wired subscription (Those suckers are *thick*, going to last me allll month until I get the next)
My UID is prime... is yours?
*Eyeing my troll mod and flame collection* YAH THINK ???
I suggest that people should celebrate life and suddenly I'm some kind of sadistic bastard. I don't have a lot of aboriginal blood, but I have to think that the indians living today prefer it to the alternative. I so rarely hear people say "shame my ancestors didn't get wiped out."
Relax, drink a beer, and stop being embarassed that you're alive. I'm glib, yeah. I like being alive. It lets me do cool things that I couldn't do if I weren't. Try it some day. You might like it too.
Before you get all high and mighty about what a prick I am, consider who was in Michigan before the Chippewa. The fossil record indicates that they were only the most recent of the invaders before the Europeans showed up (those bastards, with their steel and blue-water sailing). Other peoples lived here first. No trace of their culture of language survives, only some bones and tools that show that they weren't Chippewa. The lesson? Cultures don't live forever. Yet people are still here, and that's a good thing if you're a person.
Clay Dowling
Notorious prick
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It's a little weird how Canadians appear to constantly try to steal thunder. See below: 1782 New Hampshire declares Thanksgiving state holiday 1863 US declares Thanksgiving federal holiday 1872 Canadian Thanksgiving 1879 Canadian Thanksgiving moved to fall This is a lot like Canadian "Heritage Day" invented in 1973 to match up with Washington's Birthday or Presidents' Day in the US.
Do you honestly think most people are celebrating the colonization of North America? Seriously I don't think most do. I suspect the vast majority celebrate nothing or they celebrate the things they have in life: family, health, and so on, not just material things. Every year people complain about the commercialism of Christmas, but Thanksgiving is a real honest-to-goodness holiday, at least for me. I know that's incredibly sappy, but it's my point-of-view.