First of all, nobody claimed there wasn't lock-in with Android, only that Apple simply never promised no lock-in with their platform. I'm astounded that so many of you morons completely missed that this was my original point; I don't know why I didn't expect as much by now, though.
That said, you gave some pretty horrible examples. Let's go over them:
As a consumer, you must buy Android hardware.
From your choice of vendors. If your current vendor does something stupid like removing the headphone jack that you still use, ditching fingerprint unlocking that you still use, or heavily restricting NFC functionality even though you may find it useful if it were made available to you, you can switch to another vendor's hardware and still have the same OS and access to all of your purchased apps. That's the beauty of not being locked to a single vendor.
That Google gives away the IDE, an IDE you must otherwise purchase BTW
Which IDE is this? You can develop Android applications in notepad if you so choose, and compile them with any of a number of open-source compilers. You do need to Android SDK in order to do so, but that's GPL and, even if Google did decide to start charging for it, given that it's GPL it would be freely attributable by the community; only one person would ever need to pay for a given version. Google would never make a cent that way, as maintaining the infrastructure to accept those payments would cost more than it would bring in, which is why that's not their business model.
All that said, you can start with iOS development at no cost. You can even micro-publish (up to 100 or 500 devices, I don't recall specifically) an app at no cost.
That sounds like a great way to launch the next killer app. But really, no, there's actually a cost to that: you must either buy Apple hardware in volume or pay $299/yr and, in either case, distribution is limited to devices which are registered as part of your organization.
You might be thinking of Apple's bastardized version of sideloading, which requires you to distribute your source code, so that the end user can compile it and load it onto their device. While that might be great for an open source project, it's probably not the best way to ensure that you get to market before your competitors; after all, you're literally giving them all of your work for free.
It's not until you want to avail yourself of the App Store that you start incurring a rather modest $99 yearly charge.
Again, you mean that thing Google gives you for free: access to the market? Either way, not really relevant to a discussion about vendor lock-in.
If you read that EULA very carefully, using an apple keyboard, mouse, trackpad or monitor is enough to get you "legal";) Unless that thing has materially changed its definition of equipment to be a lot more specific in the past 3 years.
So I can bring my PC, equipped with an Apple keyboard, to the "Genius" bar and they'll support an OS issue? Mind you, I wouldn't expect hardware support (unless it was a problem with the keyboard, that is). No. You want support, you buy Apple hardware. And don't claim that this is the only way they can cover the cost of that support because the OS is free; if I walked in with a PC with an Apple keyboard, running MacOS, and a briefcase containing $1,000,000.00 cash, they'd still turn me away and you know it. Well, they'd offer to sell me a Mac, then they'd turn me away when I refused.
I'd have disagreed with that until 2 years ago as Apple's hardware was definitely several notches better.
HP's Envy line had Apple beat in 2009, as just a single example. If you really want to talk about build quality, pour a liter
It's fine if that's where the trail stops. Running with a default password of no (or out of date) anti-virus is just reckless and should incur liability.
Yes, they're absolutely over the fucking moon about now having to maintain Metal for MacOS compatibility, on top of the OpenGL stack they've been maintaining and will still have to maintain for their Windows applications.
If you believe what you just wrote, you would be absolutely amazed how often the difference between parts, even across vehicle manufacturers, is simply a model number and badge. A ton of parts are made by 3rd parties and sold to multiple car makers. If you read a bit more of the discussion on this article, you'll find numerous examples, but there is a fair bit of behind-the-scenes coordination to ensure that part numbers don't match (and aren't even similar) in these instances, even when part numbers for other parts do match (often despite being completely different parts) and can only be told apart by visual inspection or looking at the OEM badge on them.
There's a huge difference between outlawing collusion and price fixing and letting the government control prices. Go find somewhere else to post your ignorance.
I can switch from Windows to MacOS or Linux, so I guess the Windows lock-in I keep hearing about is bullshit, too, then? I mean, I have to buy all my apps again, and find alternatives for those that I can't get on another platform, but I guess there's zero cost to that.
No. If Android comes with lock-in, by your definition, well, I ain't seein' it; I can still go buy something else. Of course, that's not what people mean when they say vendor lock-in.
In economics, vendor lock-in, also known as proprietary lock-in or customer lock-in, makes a customer dependent on a vendor for products and services, unable to use another vendor without substantial switching costs [1]. Lock-in costs that create barriers to market entry [2] may result in antitrust action against a monopoly.
[1] If you have to buy entirely new hardware to escape the walled garden, that is a substantial cost. If you also have to re-purchase all of your apps, there's another (potentially) substantial cost; unless you want to admit most iOS users have a phone full of free apps like I keep hearing about all Android users (despite personally knowing this to be false).
[2] Apple charges a fee to gain access to their marketplace. As a consumer, you must buy Apple hardware; as a producer, you must buy Apple hardware*and pay an annual fee. That is a barrier to market entry.
* We won't discuss the technical ability to violate Apple's terms, as they'll crack down on that sooner or later, if they aren't already. I already do know that if they learn that your application was developed and deployed from non-Apple hardware, they will remove it from the store.
You see, Apple's strategy very much fits the definition of vendor lock-in.
Apple is the ONLY computer OEM that can LEGALLY run pretty-much ANY OS and its Applications.
That's only true because Apple doesn't allow us to legally run their OS on non-Apple hardware. That "advantage" is an artificial result of Apple being dicks. If you want to use iOS or Mac OS legally, you are very much locked in to buying Apple hardware; are you seriously trying to frame that as an advantage?
There's nothing special about their hardware, aside form a shiny apple-shaped logo with a bite taken out of it, that allows this. Or have you forgotten?
How is what I said wrong? Are you not locked into Apple's ecosystem? (you are) Did they promise you wouldn't be? (they did not) Did I claim they don't provide product support? (I did not)
So you have no standing to press charges against someone who robs you unless you have a contract with them beforehand? If Mom feels that Comcast has damaged her little baby with porn, she has standing now that they're no longer a common carrier; contract or no.
In terms of device support, updates, and not being locked into someone's ecosystem, I increasingly see Android as a failure because it's not living up to the promises.
Apple only lives up to its promises because it never promised you wouldn't be locked into their ecosystem. Just saying.
Nah, you're just missing my point, so I'll state it more plainly, after completing the quote you cherrypicked.
...I don't sideload, and I only install applications from trusted developers.
If you bother read the entire sentence, it becomes apparent that I do, in fact, realize that you don't have to root an Android device to pick up a bit of malware. You don't have to jailbreak your iOS device to download malware from the iOS App Store, either; again, you're welcome to go on thinking this is not the case, it's not my data that's at risk if you choose to remain ignorant.
If we're being honest, I've run out of time to deal with you. We're done here.
For our guns to keep the government honest our country would have to deteriorate into little fiefdoms ruled by warlords.
That's true under a dictatorship, because there's one leader to take out and, once that leader has been taken out, the government is essentially disbanded; any other leader who steps up would be taken out in short order. Our government was designed in such a way that individual bad actors can be removed (through various means, not necessarily with guns unless other means fail) and replaced without disbanding the government as a whole. We're still in the process of utilizing those other means; remember, guns are a tool of last resort.
But when you look around your new restored America you never see anyone, man or woman, between the ages of 15 and 30 because every single one of them has been killed or fled the country.
Hey, I'm not saying it's what I want to happen, but it's sure a better outcome than letting out government rape us on a daily basis, if we start heading in that direction. Do you honestly believe that, if our government begins giving us a choice between [thing we don't want to do] and death, that we'll simply do the thing we don't want to do? You do? Good. Because that's the same choice we would have to make before rising up against a corrupt government; knowing that even doing [thing we don't want to do] might include a side of death.
I'll remind you, as I did earlier, that guns are a tool of last resort. Things would have to get considerably worse than they are now to justify their use. Think state and national borders locked down, no travel in or out, those 15-30's aren't fleeing so they'd be fighting for one side or the other. Again, I hope we don't get there, and no, I don't find it comforting as you imply, war is terrifying, civil war is worse, but the conditions which lead to civil war are, often, worse still. We should all pray things never get that bad here, but be prepared if they do. I don't believe they will in my lifetime, but I don't wish to strip future generations of their ability to prepare, either.
I don't think I know anybody with a 2.5hr commute, even with rush hour traffic. Hell, from the North Bay into SF is only an hour and that's nearly 50 miles; count that as an hour and a half during rush hour, 2 hours on a bad day, but nobody who works in SF lives up here. Anyone in the East Bay area will take BART and have a sitting (if they're lucky enough to get a seat) commute of 45-60min, tops, with a 5-30min walk to and from the BART station at both ends, so there's their exercise right there.
Now, I'm sure there are plenty of people in rural areas who do have that commute. However, I'm also sure most people in rural areas do a fair bit more than sit on their asses and watch TV; after all, that's why they chose to live in a rural area.
And that's precisely why we have the 2nd amendment. Which, by the way, we do very much still have. As long as that is the case, I will accept none of it.
Slashdot Mirror
And you would benefit from getting the joke. The made the headline follow the "if a headline asks a question, the answer is NO" trope.
I think you're replying to the wrong person... Please, take your meds.
they think the computer is the best pilot in the cockpit
Well, the ones who think that are, most likely, correct.
That said, you gave some pretty horrible examples. Let's go over them:
As a consumer, you must buy Android hardware.
From your choice of vendors. If your current vendor does something stupid like removing the headphone jack that you still use, ditching fingerprint unlocking that you still use, or heavily restricting NFC functionality even though you may find it useful if it were made available to you, you can switch to another vendor's hardware and still have the same OS and access to all of your purchased apps. That's the beauty of not being locked to a single vendor.
That Google gives away the IDE, an IDE you must otherwise purchase BTW
Which IDE is this? You can develop Android applications in notepad if you so choose, and compile them with any of a number of open-source compilers. You do need to Android SDK in order to do so, but that's GPL and, even if Google did decide to start charging for it, given that it's GPL it would be freely attributable by the community; only one person would ever need to pay for a given version. Google would never make a cent that way, as maintaining the infrastructure to accept those payments would cost more than it would bring in, which is why that's not their business model.
All that said, you can start with iOS development at no cost. You can even micro-publish (up to 100 or 500 devices, I don't recall specifically) an app at no cost.
That sounds like a great way to launch the next killer app. But really, no, there's actually a cost to that: you must either buy Apple hardware in volume or pay $299/yr and, in either case, distribution is limited to devices which are registered as part of your organization.
You might be thinking of Apple's bastardized version of sideloading, which requires you to distribute your source code, so that the end user can compile it and load it onto their device. While that might be great for an open source project, it's probably not the best way to ensure that you get to market before your competitors; after all, you're literally giving them all of your work for free.
It's not until you want to avail yourself of the App Store that you start incurring a rather modest $99 yearly charge.
Again, you mean that thing Google gives you for free: access to the market? Either way, not really relevant to a discussion about vendor lock-in.
If you read that EULA very carefully, using an apple keyboard, mouse, trackpad or monitor is enough to get you "legal" ;) Unless that thing has materially changed its definition of equipment to be a lot more specific in the past 3 years.
So I can bring my PC, equipped with an Apple keyboard, to the "Genius" bar and they'll support an OS issue? Mind you, I wouldn't expect hardware support (unless it was a problem with the keyboard, that is). No. You want support, you buy Apple hardware. And don't claim that this is the only way they can cover the cost of that support because the OS is free; if I walked in with a PC with an Apple keyboard, running MacOS, and a briefcase containing $1,000,000.00 cash, they'd still turn me away and you know it. Well, they'd offer to sell me a Mac, then they'd turn me away when I refused.
I'd have disagreed with that until 2 years ago as Apple's hardware was definitely several notches better.
HP's Envy line had Apple beat in 2009, as just a single example. If you really want to talk about build quality, pour a liter
Huh, I only have that UI on mobile; and, then, only if I don't check the "View Desktop Version" option in my browser.
It's fine if that's where the trail stops. Running with a default password of no (or out of date) anti-virus is just reckless and should incur liability.
Don't assume they aren't happy about the change.
Yes, they're absolutely over the fucking moon about now having to maintain Metal for MacOS compatibility, on top of the OpenGL stack they've been maintaining and will still have to maintain for their Windows applications.
and built for cross compatibility in mind
You mean like using the industry standard OpenGL, which works everywhere, instead of the proprietary Metal, which only works on Apple platforms?
Oh... wait...
Price fixing and collusion are, actually, already illegal... in case you weren't aware.
If you believe what you just wrote, you would be absolutely amazed how often the difference between parts, even across vehicle manufacturers, is simply a model number and badge. A ton of parts are made by 3rd parties and sold to multiple car makers. If you read a bit more of the discussion on this article, you'll find numerous examples, but there is a fair bit of behind-the-scenes coordination to ensure that part numbers don't match (and aren't even similar) in these instances, even when part numbers for other parts do match (often despite being completely different parts) and can only be told apart by visual inspection or looking at the OEM badge on them.
How is this collusion? It's one company recognizing that it's customers are ego driven chumps and charging appropriately.
Actually, no, it's a group of companies all using the same platform to set their prices.
There's a huge difference between outlawing collusion and price fixing and letting the government control prices. Go find somewhere else to post your ignorance.
No. If Android comes with lock-in, by your definition, well, I ain't seein' it; I can still go buy something else. Of course, that's not what people mean when they say vendor lock-in.
In economics, vendor lock-in, also known as proprietary lock-in or customer lock-in, makes a customer dependent on a vendor for products and services, unable to use another vendor without substantial switching costs [1]. Lock-in costs that create barriers to market entry [2] may result in antitrust action against a monopoly.
[1] If you have to buy entirely new hardware to escape the walled garden, that is a substantial cost. If you also have to re-purchase all of your apps, there's another (potentially) substantial cost; unless you want to admit most iOS users have a phone full of free apps like I keep hearing about all Android users (despite personally knowing this to be false).
[2] Apple charges a fee to gain access to their marketplace. As a consumer, you must buy Apple hardware; as a producer, you must buy Apple hardware* and pay an annual fee. That is a barrier to market entry.
* We won't discuss the technical ability to violate Apple's terms, as they'll crack down on that sooner or later, if they aren't already. I already do know that if they learn that your application was developed and deployed from non-Apple hardware, they will remove it from the store.
You see, Apple's strategy very much fits the definition of vendor lock-in.
Apple is the ONLY computer OEM that can LEGALLY run pretty-much ANY OS and its Applications.
That's only true because Apple doesn't allow us to legally run their OS on non-Apple hardware. That "advantage" is an artificial result of Apple being dicks. If you want to use iOS or Mac OS legally, you are very much locked in to buying Apple hardware; are you seriously trying to frame that as an advantage?
There's nothing special about their hardware, aside form a shiny apple-shaped logo with a bite taken out of it, that allows this. Or have you forgotten?
How is what I said wrong? Are you not locked into Apple's ecosystem? (you are) Did they promise you wouldn't be? (they did not) Did I claim they don't provide product support? (I did not)
Care to try again?
So you have no standing to press charges against someone who robs you unless you have a contract with them beforehand? If Mom feels that Comcast has damaged her little baby with porn, she has standing now that they're no longer a common carrier; contract or no.
Dad pays the internet bill, Mom never agreed to arbitration.
Right, because nobody uses Windows anymore.
Don't expect to see anything like that coming from the US Congress.
Doesn't matter, if the EU does it they'll have to put in the work anyway. At that point, advertising 4 year support in the US becomes free marketing.
In terms of device support, updates, and not being locked into someone's ecosystem, I increasingly see Android as a failure because it's not living up to the promises.
Apple only lives up to its promises because it never promised you wouldn't be locked into their ecosystem. Just saying.
Yes, biased news source A says biased news source B is full of shit and we should just take their word for it.
Boy are you stupid.
Nah, you're just missing my point, so I'll state it more plainly, after completing the quote you cherrypicked.
...I don't sideload, and I only install applications from trusted developers.
If you bother read the entire sentence, it becomes apparent that I do, in fact, realize that you don't have to root an Android device to pick up a bit of malware. You don't have to jailbreak your iOS device to download malware from the iOS App Store, either; again, you're welcome to go on thinking this is not the case, it's not my data that's at risk if you choose to remain ignorant.
If we're being honest, I've run out of time to deal with you. We're done here.
Happens the the best of us. Sorry for the "unlike yours" dig; I have to let some of the snark out once in a while or I'll explode. ;)
For our guns to keep the government honest our country would have to deteriorate into little fiefdoms ruled by warlords.
That's true under a dictatorship, because there's one leader to take out and, once that leader has been taken out, the government is essentially disbanded; any other leader who steps up would be taken out in short order. Our government was designed in such a way that individual bad actors can be removed (through various means, not necessarily with guns unless other means fail) and replaced without disbanding the government as a whole. We're still in the process of utilizing those other means; remember, guns are a tool of last resort.
But when you look around your new restored America you never see anyone, man or woman, between the ages of 15 and 30 because every single one of them has been killed or fled the country.
Hey, I'm not saying it's what I want to happen, but it's sure a better outcome than letting out government rape us on a daily basis, if we start heading in that direction. Do you honestly believe that, if our government begins giving us a choice between [thing we don't want to do] and death, that we'll simply do the thing we don't want to do? You do? Good. Because that's the same choice we would have to make before rising up against a corrupt government; knowing that even doing [thing we don't want to do] might include a side of death.
I'll remind you, as I did earlier, that guns are a tool of last resort. Things would have to get considerably worse than they are now to justify their use. Think state and national borders locked down, no travel in or out, those 15-30's aren't fleeing so they'd be fighting for one side or the other. Again, I hope we don't get there, and no, I don't find it comforting as you imply, war is terrifying, civil war is worse, but the conditions which lead to civil war are, often, worse still. We should all pray things never get that bad here, but be prepared if they do. I don't believe they will in my lifetime, but I don't wish to strip future generations of their ability to prepare, either.
I don't think I know anybody with a 2.5hr commute, even with rush hour traffic. Hell, from the North Bay into SF is only an hour and that's nearly 50 miles; count that as an hour and a half during rush hour, 2 hours on a bad day, but nobody who works in SF lives up here. Anyone in the East Bay area will take BART and have a sitting (if they're lucky enough to get a seat) commute of 45-60min, tops, with a 5-30min walk to and from the BART station at both ends, so there's their exercise right there.
Now, I'm sure there are plenty of people in rural areas who do have that commute. However, I'm also sure most people in rural areas do a fair bit more than sit on their asses and watch TV; after all, that's why they chose to live in a rural area.
And that's precisely why we have the 2nd amendment. Which, by the way, we do very much still have. As long as that is the case, I will accept none of it.