Apple Deprecates OpenGL and OpenCL in macOS 10.14 Mojave

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Apple Deprecates OpenGL and OpenCL in macOS 10.14 Mojave

Posted by msmash on Tuesday June 5, 2018 @05:20AM from the end-of-road dept.

In macOS 10.14 Mojave, which Apple unveiled on Monday, the company is deprecating OpenGL and OpenCL technologies in its desktop operating system. In an announcement post to developers, the company wrote: Apps built using OpenGL and OpenCL will continue to run in macOS 10.14, but these legacy technologies are deprecated in macOS 10.14. Games and graphics-intensive apps that use OpenGL should now adopt Metal. Similarly, apps that use OpenCL for computational tasks should now adopt Metal and Metal Performance Shaders. PCGamer reports that several developers have expressed disappointment over the decision. AnandTech reports that the company is doing away with OpenGL and OpenCL in iOS and its other operating systems as well.

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No doubt... by x0ra · 2018-06-05 05:24 · Score: 4, Insightful

Ignoring standards, enforcing proprietary interface... no doubt, Apple is the new Microsoft :-/
1. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 05:24 · Score: 0
  
  They wonâ(TM)t remove OpenGl/CL. Itâ(TM)s going to break too many apps. Just watch..
2. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 05:29 · Score: 0
  
  lol apple sucks
  iâ(TM)m right guys
  am i rite guys
  appleâ(TM)s never getting my monieâ(TM)s
3. Re:No doubt... by Kremmy · 2018-06-05 05:30 · Score: 2
  
  It hurts. I started on early Macs and branched out to everything from them. Saw how elegant and capable they were before ever engaging in platform wars. I owned multiple older Mac workstations that were loaded with expansion capabilities. There were models with built in PCs on daughterboards for compatibility with the Wintel world. You could upgrade entire processor generations with expansion cards.
  The Macintosh was Rad as Fuck.
  Now I'm using Linux built in to my Windows and loving it, what happened to this world?
4. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 05:32 · Score: 0
  
  Ya, Iâ(TM)ve gotta agree - Appleâ(TM)s the worst thing ever!
5. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 05:35 · Score: 0
  
  Removing 32-bit is going to break too many apps.
  Moving from PowerPC to Intel is going to break too many apps.
  Oh, right, since you have to jump through hoops to get out of the Store, just buy the newer versions again! We'll only take a tiny portion of the money you spend... Like 30%!
6. Re:No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 05:46 · Score: 1
  
  New? This has been Apple's modus operandi any time they have been on top.
  The unix underpinnings of OSX/MacOS/iOS have basically been withering away while Apple expands their silo on top.
7. Re: No doubt... by jellomizer · 2018-06-05 05:48 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  That is a known risk of developing for the Apple platform.
  Which is also why Apple never got a serious foot hold in the enterprise market.
  Any Mac Developer or Apple developer should know by now, they are one version away from a major rewrite.
  While it does suck, it does help keep the software for the Mac current, and built for cross compatibility in mind, or at least with best practices.
  Mac users don't often run into cases like we do in windows where someone running windows 10 and Office 95. Or that third party VB app built with hundreds of active X controls, that get unregistered on you randomly.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
8. Re: No doubt... by infolation · 2018-06-05 06:00 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  why Apple never got a serious foot hold in the enterprise market
  But Apple did, and does, have a serious foothold in the creative industries, and deprecating OpenGL breaks display acceleration in After Effects and Premiere.
9. Re: No doubt... by F.Ultra · 2018-06-05 06:08 · Score: 1
  
  Of course they will, it's the brave thing to do!
10. Re: No doubt... by ugen · 2018-06-05 06:27 · Score: 1
  
  Also helps line developer's pockets, as Adobe CS4 is only 32 bit and when it stops being supported by OSX, you pretty much have to pay Adobe whatever it asks for the current version (I believe that take $1000 cash or monthly installments on par with a compact car lease payments)
11. Re:No doubt... by grub · 2018-06-05 06:39 · Score: 1
  
  Was that the PowerPC 6100? I had a PPC 6100/66 with the 486 card in it. I was able to upgrade the CPU to a fast 486DX just by swapping it in.
  
  Those were the days.
  
  --
  Trolling is a art,
12. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:47 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Free cross-platform alternative to Adobe After Effects: Fusion 9
  Free cross-platform alternative to Adobe Premiere: DaVinci Resolve 15
  And even the pay-for versions of those products are of a pretty reasonable cost given what they do.
13. Re: No doubt... by jrb1537 · 2018-06-05 06:49 · Score: 1
  
  The Abode CreativeCloud is ~ 50USD/month for access to everything if you sign up for a year. It's expensive, but significantly less than what it used to cost to chase the latest release of CS.
14. Re: No doubt... by Darinbob · 2018-06-05 06:50 · Score: 1
  
  Not used to games either I guess, as running older games is a very common occurence. Presumably there'd be a way to add OpenGL back, or is Apple now going to require that all libraries be signed? (it already requires debuggers to be signed which is an immense development headache)
15. Re:No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:57 · Score: 0
  
  Their strong point has always been QuickDraw(tm).
  I see no other reason to use this OpenGL thing; so this
  is the right move by iApple(tm).
  CAP === 'protects'
16. Re:No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 07:00 · Score: 0
  
  I think, other than Sun, early macs were the first with a CPU slot
  that you could upgrade the CPU to a 68030 (which I did). Wasn't
  much of an improvement performance-wise, but it was very cool.
  Those definitely were the days...
  CAP === 'buffing'
17. Re: No doubt... by 605dave · 2018-06-05 07:05 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah, I doubt this is a surprise to Adobe. They have been talking about working with Metal for a couple of years. Don't assume they aren't happy about the change. Who knows, maybe Metal works better for them?
  There is that rub about Apple, they force you into the future whether you like it or not. For me the benefits outweigh the costs. Shit changes, adapt.
  
  --
  Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a difficult battle. - Plato
18. Re:No doubt... by Tough+Love · 2018-06-05 07:10 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Ignoring standards, enforcing proprietary interface... no doubt, Apple is the new Microsoft :-/
  Last nail in the coffin for the concept of Apple as engineering workstation. But that concept died long ago. Seriously, Apple will get hammered for this one, and not just by engineers. Dropping OpenGL is not an option, there is just too much code in the wild. OpenCL maybe, but I don't see Apple gaining any love for that either, quite the contrary. My take on it: Apple is setting itself up to eat crow a year down the road and humbly slither back into the Vulkan/OpenCL camp.
  The only one who gets hurt by this latest "your're holding your headphone jack wrong" blunder is Apple. Can't shed a tear.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
19. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 07:23 · Score: 0
  
  Don't assume they aren't happy about the change. Who knows, maybe Metal works better for them?
  A chance to get their customers to re-buy what they already own because the old software won't run, and they can put all the blame on Apple? You bet your ass they're happy!
20. Re: No doubt... by Tough+Love · 2018-06-05 07:30 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Apple got its tail kicked by Linux in the animation industry, others to follow. Tried Krita? It rules.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
21. Re: No doubt... by Tough+Love · 2018-06-05 07:31 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  There is that rub about Apple, they force you into the future whether you like it or not.
  How is fucking with standards forcing anybody into the future? Sounds more like the past to me, that is, Microsoft. Except without the market dominance. "Courage."
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
22. Re: No doubt... by 605dave · 2018-06-05 07:44 · Score: 0, Flamebait
  
  They are not "fucking" with standards, they are dropping support for one. And an outdated one at that. Apple tried to rally the industry around the open standards, and the industry moved a different direction. Now they are too. Every decision has pros and cons. Keeping the current OpenGL and OpenCL probably has a bunch of pros. But also a lot of cons, and for whatever internal reason they decided the benefits outweighed the costs when deciding to go this direction. Companies do not have an infinite amount of time to work on every possible permeation of their project. MS got bogged like hell trying to do that, and are still recovering. Apple has chosen a different approach and has been consistent with that approach for decades. You can like it or not, but they are obviously doing something right.
  And btw, is this something that actually affects your work? Or is this more of a "I am going to rag on Apple based on incomplete knowledge" sort of rant? I know people who port games to the Mac. They aren't complaining.
  
  --
  Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a difficult battle. - Plato
23. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 08:02 · Score: 0
  
  They hate Adobe anyway.
24. Re: No doubt... by Tough+Love · 2018-06-05 08:04 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  an outdated one
  If you think OpenGL is outdated then you are living on a different planet. The OpenGL 4.6 and OpenGL Shading Language 4.60 Specifications were released on July 31, 2017 There is not even a remote chance that OpenGL will be displaced by Vulkan in the big dollar engineering sector, which is more than enough to ensure that OpenGL lives on forever, never mind the thousands of applications using those libraries. Vulkan for performance games, OpenGL for pretty much everything else. That is the status quo and it won't be changing fast, if ever.
  Apple is courageously moving in an idiot direction. Just keep doing it please.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
25. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 08:14 · Score: 0
  
  deprecating OpenGL breaks display acceleration in After Effects and Premiere
  No, deprecating OpenGL does not do that. In fact, the whole point of deprecating OpenGL is to avoid breaking applications that depend on OpenGL.
26. Re: No doubt... by 605dave · 2018-06-05 08:17 · Score: 1
  
  "There is not even a remote chance that OpenGL will be displaced by Vulkan in the big dollar engineering sector"
  Don't be so sure. Open standards thrive when large orgs get a benefit from them, not just a community. There always has to be a business behind the standard.
  
  --
  Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a difficult battle. - Plato
27. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 08:17 · Score: 0
  
  I'm worried because I still play Diablo 2, which I'm pretty sure requires OpenGL and I'm pretty sure Blizzard is *not* going to port it to metal.
  Why am I playing such an old game? Why should you care? But in my household it has been, and still is, the most played game by everyone. There's a certain amount of game de jour, but in the long term, it always goes back to Diablo 2.
  I just realized it will put the final nail in the coffin for the orphaned 3d suite I use. Which sucks, but I've been afraid of OS updates killing it without anything this drastic (not an idle concern as that actually happened while it was still being supported). And the suite is not readily replaced -- it fit a rather specific niche and nothing else does what it did.
  Damn.
28. Re: No doubt... by Kjella · 2018-06-05 08:46 · Score: 1
  
  But Apple did, and does, have a serious foothold in the creative industries, and deprecating OpenGL breaks display acceleration in After Effects and Premiere.
  They did, but after FCP X and the trashcan Mac Pro design how many are left? They're trying to sell on you on eGPU solutions and external Thunderbolt storage and whatnot but I would think many video professionals built a big box. Unless they want in the field editing, in which case I'd get a "luggable" desktop replacement PC that is too niche for Apple to make. Particularly now that GPU acceleration is getting to be a big thing. Personally I hope DaVinci Resolve will see some more love, because it's available on Linux (free as in beer, $299 for studio if you need all the bells and whistles) and as of version 15 (now in beta) it works with normal system audio out.
  My impression is that pro-level cinematography gear and tools is dropping in price like a stone, you had the Panasonic GH5 and Sony a7s III killing it at $2k, Blackmagic is coming in with "Pocket" 4K/60p RAW for $1300 and Red dropped the price of 8K/60p RAW to $25k (well the brain anyway, maybe $35k for a working rig). Compared to the cost of any half-competent people in front of and behind the camera as well as putting it all together it's a bargain. And on the low end cell phones are constantly raising the bar for an "entry level" camera. Of course, most of them are just used to vlog on YouTube...
  
  --
  Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
29. Re: No doubt... by smooth+wombat · 2018-06-05 09:00 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  That's $600 per year. Every year.
  That is far more expensive than a single license of CS which could be used for years once you paid for it.
  
  --
  We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
30. Re: No doubt... by Fluk3 · 2018-06-05 10:00 · Score: 0
  
  Adobe Master Suite costed $2500.
  Upgrading the next version of Master Suite would be half of that again.
  
  --
  I've been upgraded to "bad"!
31. Re: No doubt... by TheFakeTimCook · 2018-06-05 10:02 · Score: 2
  
  why Apple never got a serious foot hold in the enterprise market
  But Apple did, and does, have a serious foothold in the creative industries, and deprecating OpenGL breaks display acceleration in After Effects and Premiere.
  Relax! They're just being Deprecated. Those things will still work...
  It will likely be another 5 major versions of macOS before they stop being supported entirely.
  For example, CarbonLib was Deprecated EONS ago; but I think that QuickTime 7 still works in High Sierra.
32. Re: No doubt... by Fluk3 · 2018-06-05 10:02 · Score: 0
  
  The Standard Adobe Suite Costed $1700 and only included a few Apps. I don't like CC subs either. But one should be more accurate when comparing. If you upgraded every year or every other year it costed roughly the same. You could hold out and use one version for years (like I did) but eventually have to upgrade for various reasons (like I did).
  
  --
  I've been upgraded to "bad"!
33. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 10:03 · Score: 0
  
  Even though you intentionally make it look like iOS, there is truth to iOS devs being beyond frustrated with crapples direction.
  Just looking at the app store offerings nowadays - boring ugly excrement.
  Moving away from industry standards is a dead end.
34. Re: No doubt... by TheFakeTimCook · 2018-06-05 10:07 · Score: 2
  
  I'm worried because I still play Diablo 2, which I'm pretty sure requires OpenGL and I'm pretty sure Blizzard is *not* going to port it to metal.
  Why am I playing such an old game? Why should you care? But in my household it has been, and still is, the most played game by everyone. There's a certain amount of game de jour, but in the long term, it always goes back to Diablo 2.
  I just realized it will put the final nail in the coffin for the orphaned 3d suite I use. Which sucks, but I've been afraid of OS updates killing it without anything this drastic (not an idle concern as that actually happened while it was still being supported). And the suite is not readily replaced -- it fit a rather specific niche and nothing else does what it did.
  Damn.
  Again, it's NOT going away today, tomorrow, or maybe even EVER.
  Those two standards are just being DEPRECATED. Apple will continue to include those Libraries in macOS for a LONG time.
  Your Diablo is safe.
35. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 10:11 · Score: 0
  
  Only fatass gaming corps can afford to throw millions at adopting the new overly complex tech. All other studious will stick to simpler API. OpenGL is easier and the same performance as Vulkan, no matter what you hear about it.
  Tim Cock is a fucking idiot.
36. Re: No doubt... by TheFakeTimCook · 2018-06-05 10:13 · Score: 2
  
  That's $600 per year. Every year.
  That is far more expensive than a single license of CS which could be used for years once you paid for it.
  But if you truly ARE a "Pro", that's a ridiculously-insignificant cost. $50 a month is about $150 less than one Graphic Artist's coffee purchases per month.
37. Re: No doubt... by TheFakeTimCook · 2018-06-05 10:14 · Score: 1
  
  Not used to games either I guess, as running older games is a very common occurence. Presumably there'd be a way to add OpenGL back, or is Apple now going to require that all libraries be signed? (it already requires debuggers to be signed which is an immense development headache)
  It's STILL THERE, and will be for a LONG, LONG time. Apple is just trying to get Devs. to move to Metal OVER TIME.
  Sheesh!
38. Re:No doubt... by TheFakeTimCook · 2018-06-05 10:18 · Score: 0
  
  Ignoring standards, enforcing proprietary interface... no doubt, Apple is the new Microsoft :-/
  Last nail in the coffin for the concept of Apple as engineering workstation. But that concept died long ago. Seriously, Apple will get hammered for this one, and not just by engineers. Dropping OpenGL is not an option, there is just too much code in the wild. OpenCL maybe, but I don't see Apple gaining any love for that either, quite the contrary. My take on it: Apple is setting itself up to eat crow a year down the road and humbly slither back into the Vulkan/OpenCL camp.
  The only one who gets hurt by this latest "your're holding your headphone jack wrong" blunder is Apple. Can't shed a tear.
  For the THOUSANDTH Time: THEY ARE NOT ***DROPPING*** ANYTHING!!!
  Your OpenGL and OpenCL Applications WILL WORK for many, many years, and many, many macOS Versions, to come!
  They are simply DEPRECATING those standards.
39. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 10:19 · Score: 0
  
  You don't actually know that, liar!
40. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 10:35 · Score: 0
  
  Do you realize how many apps you get for that $600/yr??
  If you're a creative pro, it's a no-brainer. You'd be insane not to take advantage of that much capability for the money.
41. Re: No doubt... by ArmoredDragon · 2018-06-05 12:00 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  No, they're trying to force developers into a proprietary standard as opposed to open standards. Metal does not offer anything that vulkan doesn't, except for Apple's self proclaimed 10x speed increase, which they base on absolutely nothing.
  Basically, Metal is Apple's DirectX.
42. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 12:01 · Score: 0
  
  Are you actually retarded?
43. Re: No doubt... by Tough+Love · 2018-06-05 12:23 · Score: 1
  
  Are you the Apple user?
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
44. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 12:35 · Score: 0
  
  You donâ(TM)t know that, and youâ(TM)re just a random person on the internet. All we can go off is what *they themselves have said*. You know what deprecated means right?
45. Re: No doubt... by exomondo · 2018-06-05 12:44 · Score: 1
  
  why Apple never got a serious foot hold in the enterprise market
  But Apple did, and does, have a serious foothold in the creative industries, and deprecating OpenGL breaks display acceleration in After Effects and Premiere.
  Deprecating OpenGL doesn't break anything...removing it would but deprecating it does not. It has effectively been deprecated for a long time now (Apple's platforms and devices are only capable of OpenGL 4.1, which is relatively very old) they've only now made it official.
46. Re: No doubt... by exomondo · 2018-06-05 12:46 · Score: 1
  
  They are not "fucking" with standards, they are dropping support for one. And an outdated one at that. Apple tried to rally the industry around the open standards, and the industry moved a different direction.
  No they didn't, they developed the closed, proprietary set of APIs called Metal and ignored standards bodies. AMD by contrast developed Mantle and contributed it to the open standards Khronos group to form the foundation of Vulkan.
47. Re: No doubt... by exomondo · 2018-06-05 12:50 · Score: 1
  
  Also helps line developer's pockets, as Adobe CS4 is only 32 bit and when it stops being supported by OSX, you pretty much have to pay Adobe whatever it asks for the current version (I believe that take $1000 cash or monthly installments on par with a compact car lease payments)
  No that's part of the benefit of the subscription model, like it or not if the underlying platform change forces developers into a more modern architecture (personally my view is that would be Vulkan - MoltenVK on MacOS - rather than Metal) then the software users aren't hit with a big bill to upgrade all their software.
48. Re: No doubt... by exomondo · 2018-06-05 12:59 · Score: 1
  
  That's $600 per year. Every year.
  And you stay up to date, what was the cost to do that on the perpetual license system? Even assuming you bought the full version and then upgraded every year? It was a lot more than that.
49. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 13:02 · Score: 0
  
  But I do.
50. Re:No doubt... by exomondo · 2018-06-05 13:09 · Score: 1
  
  My take on it: Apple is setting itself up to eat crow a year down the road and humbly slither back into the Vulkan/OpenCL camp.
  I would say developers are likely to target Vulkan via MoltenVK so they don't need to write Apple-specific code when Apple might simply abandon Metal anyway. Apple has had poor support for GPU acceleration even before Metal came out on the desktop, the latest supported version was OpenGL 4.1 in mid-2010 and Metal didn't come to Macs until 5 years later in mid-2015. Apple has never been very good at GPU support.
51. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 14:22 · Score: 0
  Reminds me of that time they didn't...
  remove the 32-bit support on all apps
  remove the iPhone's headphone jack
  
  remove the built-in floppy drive for crappy external USB ones
  remove the built-in CD drives from laptops
  remove the built-in ethernet ports from laptops (Wifi jitter outta be enough for anyone)
  remove the support for side-by-side Wintel hardware
  remove the options to replace phone and desktop components easily
  
  remove the old power cords
  
  remove the ADB mice and keyboards when USB came out... and Localtalk
  remove the various old style hard drive data formats (FAT-32 and NTFS are now OK, but there was a transition away from the iMac era formats before OSX brought more standardized support)
  removed the affordable $500 mac Mini
  removed the Xserve from their lineups
  
  remove the solid bondi themed USB keyboards in favor of tiny chicklet keyboards
  
  remove the trapezoid and oblong mice when the hockey puck mice came out
  
  remove the PowerPC version of the OS around 10.7
  
  remove the OS 9 compatibility layer
  
  remove the driver support for various classic printer hardware
  
  remove the native Flash support from the drawing board for all iPhones
  Soon to... um, "never" be removed per https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208312 :
  
  In fall 2018, Apple will stop bundling open source services such as Calendar Server, Contacts Server, the Mail Server, DNS, DHCP, VPN Server, and Websites with macOS Server. Customers can get these same services directly from open-source providers. This way, macOS Server customers can install the most secure and up-to-date services as soon as they’re available.
  There are a few others I've forgotten, and I'm sure there would be many more if my last personal mac were newer than my college days.
  Mind you, selective memory... and I'm a PC person. PCs have had their his own share of removed features (like 16-bit DOS exe support and some new webcam hardware that became deprecated or sound cards that were poorly implemented, or XP software that just doesn't work in Windows 7 Ultimate even with the XP emulation) but at least there is a ton of FRAGMENTATION in hardware and some selectivity if you are willing to keep crazily outdated / insecure versions of the OS connected to the internet.
  Android too has its own share of stuff that's been removed.
  One thing I see Apple DID keep is 4 inch phone screens (though apparently you must scrape the bottom of the barrel with the iPhone SE which is apparently 24 months old - https://www.cnet.com/news/iphone-16gb-storage-screw-up/ )
  I sorely miss that on the Android side of the world. I bought a bottom of the barrel phone on tmobile due to its [relatively small] 5.0 inch size, SD slot and removable batteries, and sadly noticed that going smaller would require the unadvisable model of putting money down for kickstarter projects for gimmick phones that besides doubling the price had some bottom-of-the-barrel hardware AND still dared bear outdated versions of Android IIRC.
  But I digress. The world is full of removals, and Apple is just as quick to do it as that unmentionable platform that was Microsoft Windows 6|7|8 Phone or your javascript framework du-jour. Not something I'd expect to last me a decade. Ironically, decade-old hardware like cars, microwave ovens, hammers, non-smart televisions, routers (hmm, is it too late for me to insert Apple's Airport Express to my list?) run reliably because they more or less stay the same every time you go to the store to replace your burned-out one.
52. Re: No doubt... by jrb1537 · 2018-06-05 14:22 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly. Most people seem to have forgotten just how much Adobe was charging for CS back in the days of perpetual licenses. At first, Adobe was releasing a new version of CS every other year, but starting with CS5.5 they went to a yearly release. In total, there were 7 CS releases over a period of about 9 years. Assuming $2500/release, that's $17,500 compared to $5400 for 9 years of a CC subscription at $600/year.
53. Re: No doubt... by mikael · 2018-06-05 14:41 · Score: 1
  
  They have Metal and there are third party libraries to map Vulkan onto Metal. Their versions of OpenGL don't support modern GLSL features like Uniform Buffer Objects, so that's already broken. The goal is to unify iOS with OSX. Perhaps some third party could implement the OpenGL state machine over Metal or Vulkan.
  
  --
  Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
54. Re: No doubt... by mikael · 2018-06-05 14:49 · Score: 1
  
  Big Dollar Engineering have to deal with customers who aren't willing to pay millions of pounds just to upgrade every engineers workstation to the latest gaming card. They want solutions that work on their oldest machines, in order to maximize the return on their investments. Sometimes they'll pay for applications that use a supercomputer to do rendering and stream the final images to an old PC. Simply because they have the supercomputer with some spare nodes and an old PC and it's a configuration they want to use.
  The mobile gaming industry tried to get rid of all the "legacy" OpenGL features like smooth shading and anti-aliased lines, only to have Big Dollar Engineering realize that they could do things like stream rendering of CAD files onto AR headsets and mobile tablets and see how something should look on site or in the workshop. That forced the GPU vendors to put back the features that they took out and merge OpenGL with OpenGL ES. Mobile gaming has now moved to Vulkan to get rid of all the "legacy" OpenGL features.
  
  --
  Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
55. Re: No doubt... by DeVilla · 2018-06-05 15:40 · Score: 1
  
  Someone will implement OpenGL as a wrapper over Vulkan. Then developers will start bypassing the wrapper when they need the better optimizations Vulkan will allow. Developers who don't need the better performance will stick to easier higher level APIs.
56. Re:No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 15:57 · Score: 0
  
  This is the reason why gaming is bleak for Mac and it seems same will be for iPhone. Apple is shooting themselves in the knee.
  Are they going to deprecate Safari, so OpenGL and OpenCL won't work on those, too? Really "smart" move...
57. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 16:51 · Score: 0
  
  If you spent $17500 over 7 years at $2500 per year you would have 7 individual licenses compared with $5400 for one licence you misleading cuck.
58. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 16:55 · Score: 0
  
  Tech that has proven to be reliable and working over many years is not "very old", it is called VERY UBIQUITOUS. Just like your bicycle.
59. Re: No doubt... by exomondo · 2018-06-05 17:11 · Score: 1
  
  Tech that has proven to be reliable and working over many years is not "very old", it is called VERY UBIQUITOUS. Just like your bicycle.
  It can be both. OpenGL 4.1 is very old, all the platforms that support more recent versions of OpenGL also support 4.1 (even a Macbook pro from 2015 with a Radeon 370 that only supports OpenGL 4.1 on macOS can support OpenGL 4.3 if you run Windows or Linux on it). So if that's what you want to target that's fine but Apple does not support more recent versions, the most recent it supports is 4.1 (which is very old and doesn't support many of the new and more modern features of later versions of OpenGL).
60. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 19:09 · Score: 0
  
  This is another example proving you have no idea what you are talking about. The Macintosh was never widely used by the animation industry. Publishing, photography, music, and graphic design were Apple's creative strongholds.
  By the way, Krita is a toy.
61. Re: No doubt... by BronsCon · 2018-06-05 19:13 · Score: 1
  
  and built for cross compatibility in mind
  You mean like using the industry standard OpenGL, which works everywhere, instead of the proprietary Metal, which only works on Apple platforms?
  
  Oh... wait...
  
  --
  APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
62. Re: No doubt... by BronsCon · 2018-06-05 19:15 · Score: 1
  
  Don't assume they aren't happy about the change.
  Yes, they're absolutely over the fucking moon about now having to maintain Metal for MacOS compatibility, on top of the OpenGL stack they've been maintaining and will still have to maintain for their Windows applications.
  
  --
  APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
63. Re: No doubt... by thegarbz · 2018-06-05 21:11 · Score: 1
  
  But Apple did, and does, have a serious foothold in the creative industries
  Apple did, but "does" is stretching it. A lot of creatives have dropped Apple, and that includes developer support which used to favour that platform incredibly who are now just treating it as yet another platform. There used to be so many exclusive titles that you were hamstrung by working with a windows platform. Now they are comparable. Adobe used to release on Apple first, that changed to release to Apple at the same time, and that even changed to skipping releases on Apple when things changed (e.g. Apple didn't get a 64bit version of CS until well after Windows did).
  I do wonder if Adobe is pulling all stops to resolve this, or if this is going to be another blemish in the history of Apple where the creative platform of choice ended up being left behind. God knows I know a few people in the professional video industry which dropped Apple as they weren't able to develop the hardware they need.
64. Re:No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 21:29 · Score: 0
  
  If they want to sell the "external GPU" feature with the macs... they'll have to. Well, since they don't live off the macs (Apple just makes iPhones), technically they don't. They just risk loosing more and more people from their marginally manufactured/used computers.
65. Re: No doubt... by Zero__Kelvin · 2018-06-05 23:26 · Score: 1
  
  Mmmm ... delicious negative Covfefee!
  
  --
  Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
66. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-06 00:57 · Score: 1
  
  And photoshop = Affinity Photo
  And illustrator = Affinity Designer
  I cancelled my VERY expensive Adobe subscription a few months ago and havenâ(TM)t once looked back.
67. Re: No doubt... by Carewolf · 2018-06-06 01:02 · Score: 1
  
  I'm worried because I still play Diablo 2, which I'm pretty sure requires OpenGL and I'm pretty sure Blizzard is *not* going to port it to metal.
  Why am I playing such an old game? Why should you care? But in my household it has been, and still is, the most played game by everyone. There's a certain amount of game de jour, but in the long term, it always goes back to Diablo 2.
  I just realized it will put the final nail in the coffin for the orphaned 3d suite I use. Which sucks, but I've been afraid of OS updates killing it without anything this drastic (not an idle concern as that actually happened while it was still being supported). And the suite is not readily replaced -- it fit a rather specific niche and nothing else does what it did.
  Damn.
  Again, it's NOT going away today, tomorrow, or maybe even EVER.
  Those two standards are just being DEPRECATED. Apple will continue to include those Libraries in macOS for a LONG time.
  Your Diablo is safe.
  So when Apple comes out with new GPUs in later this year, or next your, do you think they are going to write OpenGL drivers for them?
  I do not. This deprecation is to same them the effort, which means we will soon have even more than usually crippled and crappy Macs.
68. Re:No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-06 01:03 · Score: 0
  
  Well, no, Apple is still Apple.
  This is literally their modus operandi and has been since day one!
  Apple have always shied away from following standards if they thought they could get away with doing their own lock-in proprietary version, be it software OR hardware.
  They can't compete on a level playing field so they lock in their users as much as possible and make it as painful for them as possible to move away.
69. Re: No doubt... by TheFakeTimCook · 2018-06-06 01:38 · Score: 1
  
  I'm worried because I still play Diablo 2, which I'm pretty sure requires OpenGL and I'm pretty sure Blizzard is *not* going to port it to metal.
  Why am I playing such an old game? Why should you care? But in my household it has been, and still is, the most played game by everyone. There's a certain amount of game de jour, but in the long term, it always goes back to Diablo 2.
  I just realized it will put the final nail in the coffin for the orphaned 3d suite I use. Which sucks, but I've been afraid of OS updates killing it without anything this drastic (not an idle concern as that actually happened while it was still being supported). And the suite is not readily replaced -- it fit a rather specific niche and nothing else does what it did.
  Damn.
  Again, it's NOT going away today, tomorrow, or maybe even EVER.
  Those two standards are just being DEPRECATED. Apple will continue to include those Libraries in macOS for a LONG time.
  Your Diablo is safe.
  So when Apple comes out with new GPUs in later this year, or next your, do you think they are going to write OpenGL drivers for them?
  I do not. This deprecation is to same them the effort, which means we will soon have even more than usually crippled and crappy Macs.
  Actually, I am not sure that is correct. I agree it makes sense; but that's extremely pessimistic, IMHO.
  I think they will continue to use the drivers they already have, which will work to a great extent; but may not be able to take advantage of the last 10% of the new GPU's features.
  GPU mfgs. Generally don't completely remap their internal registers, etc. each time a new speed-bump occurs. They don't fancy creating a brand new Driver each go-around, either. So, there is a great chance that, whatever Driver that macOS includes will work perfectly well for almost all applications, and any NEW performance-oriented s/w will be written to use the Metal API, and it's Driver.
70. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-06 05:23 · Score: 0
  
  How many computers are out there that can run OpenGL 4.6 in a meaningful way today, Apple or not?
  Zero from Apple as is already. They're still stuck at 4.1 or something. It's not like Apple suddenly turned around and dropped it. Writing was on the wall for years.
71. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-06 07:56 · Score: 0
  
  That's $600 per year. Every year.
  And you stay up to date, what was the cost to do that on the perpetual license system? Even assuming you bought the full version and then upgraded every year? It was a lot more than that.
  But what if you didn't fork out for every update? I'd be willing to bet that Adobe based the subscription price on what the average user was willing to spend to stay mostly up to date.
72. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-06 08:05 · Score: 0
  
  OpenGL for everything else? please. Everything useful gets deprecated. Want to draw thick lines as part of a diagramatical display? glLineWidth deprecated. Need to use immediate mode to display frame-by-frame calculations? deprecated. Upload vertices as vertex buffer - what, for one frame?
  OpenGL has become only useful for uploading static textures and vertices to the graphics card and running shaders on them, and the world's not short of graphics APIs that can do that.
73. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-06 08:16 · Score: 0
  
  Citation required. Or you are just an apple shill lying sack of shit.
74. Re: No doubt... by exomondo · 2018-06-06 10:40 · Score: 1
  
  But what if you didn't fork out for every update?
  But what if you did? That's the question I'm asking, obviously the answer to your question is that the gap between what you pay for perpetual and what you pay for subscription would be narrower the less often you update.
  
  I'd be willing to bet that Adobe based the subscription price on what the average user was willing to spend to stay mostly up to date.
  Probably, so the result is the average customer is no worse off financially but they are kept up to date.
75. Re: No doubt... by Tough+Love · 2018-06-06 11:00 · Score: 1
  
  How many computers are out there that can run OpenGL 4.6 in a meaningful way today, Apple or not?
  Both AMD and nVidia have been in the habit of providing day 1 support for new OpenGL versions these days, so basically anything with a newish GPU and updated drivers. They both participate heavily in the standards process so it's not a moving target for them, and they ensure that nothing gets in that they can't support. Even some of the traditional "embedded" GPUs are starting to get in on this, in order to create a story that they aren't just for phones. In any case, Mali and those track the latest OpenGL ES standard.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
76. Re: No doubt... by jrb1537 · 2018-06-06 14:08 · Score: 1
  
  Sure, 6 licenses for outdated software and 1 for the current release.
77. Re: No doubt... by exomondo · 2018-06-06 15:49 · Score: 1
  
  How many computers are out there that can run OpenGL 4.6 in a meaningful way today, Apple or not?
  A lot of them:
  Hardware support: Nvidia GeForce 400 series and newer, Intel Haswell and newer, AMD Radeon HD 5000 Series and newer
  Driver support:
  Mesa on Linux mostly supports OpenGL 4.6 by Mesa 18.0 for Intel Haswell+, AMD Radeon GCN, Nvidia Kepler+
  NVIDIA GeForce 397.31 Graphics Driver on Windows 7, 8, 10
  AMD Adrenalin 18.4.1 Graphics Driver on Windows 7 SP1, 10/p>
  But that's 4.6, released only last year. macOS is stuck on 4.1 which was released in 2010 (even though if you install Windows or Linux on a capable Mac you can get much more recent OpenGL (and Vulkan) support.
78. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-06 16:04 · Score: 0
  
  I think they will continue to use the drivers they already have, which will work to a great extent; but may not be able to take advantage of the last 10% of the new GPU's features.
  10%? macOS's poor and outdated OpenGL implementation can't take advantage of any GPU feature introduced in the last 8 years since the 2010 introduction of 4.1.
79. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-06 23:10 · Score: 0
  
  But this is apple, they've never cared much about breaking old things in the past.
80. Re: No doubt... by Distortions · 2018-06-08 21:35 · Score: 1
  
  Hah! I have a Late 2013 MacBook, and they completely dropped CUDA support for the GPU on it.
  Upgraded OS, tons of my software now runs at an unusable speed.
  And good luck trying to obtain an older version of the OS to install.
  
  --
  Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
81. Re: No doubt... by Distortions · 2018-06-08 22:10 · Score: 1
  
  and we should just trust that.... because?
  and why is apple getting rid of it, why?
  Fuck off.
  
  --
  Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
82. Re: No doubt... by TheFakeTimCook · 2018-06-09 14:57 · Score: 1
  
  Hah! I have a Late 2013 MacBook, and they completely dropped CUDA support for the GPU on it.
  Upgraded OS, tons of my software now runs at an unusable speed.
  And good luck trying to obtain an older version of the OS to install.
  You actually can get SOME older versions from Apple for $20, IIRC. Plus, you SHOULD be able to do a "Recovery" to the same Version of OSX /macOS that the machine originally shipped-with.
  Plus, you may know someone with another install image floating around. Then you can use a free utility called Make BootX (IIRC) to make a bootable installer stick out of any USB stick 8 GB or larger.
83. Re: No doubt... by TheFakeTimCook · 2018-06-11 02:57 · Score: 1
  
  and we should just trust that.... because?
  and why is apple getting rid of it, why?
  Fuck off.
  Honestly, I don't know exactly why Apple is Deprecating OpenGL and OpenCL. I believe it has to do with the fact that Metal is significantly more "performant". And don't we ALL want that?!?
  Frameworks and standards come, change, and eventually go. It is the way of software development. Kind of an evolutionary process, much like nature. And like all evolutionary processes, there are winners and losers.
  From what I understand, at this point, Metal 2 is a pretty good API; why not give it a chance?
  Not very many people said the sky is falling, just because DirectX was MS-specific lo these many years. If there is enough call for OpenGL and/or OpenCL for specific App Development, then I am sure someone in the F/OSS "community" will maintain those Frameworks in a compatible-fashion for macOS. Or at least I hope so. Or, those Libraries will just be built into Applications, most of which are already the size of a modern OS...
  Just like when, citing security reasons, Apple decided to remove a couple of typical Unix Utilities (ftp and telnet, IIRC) from the standard macOS build in High Sierra, someone quickly came along and put together a package that brought them back. Easy-peasey. Done!
  https://apple.stackexchange.co...
  I suspect, such will happen with OpenGL and maybe OpenCL, too.
  And before you whine, that's the way EVERYTHING works in Linux; so how would it be so bad for a few things to work that way in macOS, too?
  The only possible "casualties" would be that those Applications that remain dependent on OpenGL and OpenCL may not be accepted in the MacOS (and iOS?) App Store(s), until they are re-written for Metal.
84. Re: No doubt... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-15 07:24 · Score: 0
  
  OpenGL is a legacy interface and Apple really has no investment in Vulkan yet. Khronos Group is effectively deprecating OpenGL, and by bringing out a new standard, they're putting themselves in this position of responsibility for evangelism and multiplatform support.
  When Vulkan has the consensus of game developers, maybe Apple will spend money on it.
Oh, fuck.... by mark-t · 2018-06-05 05:25 · Score: 1

So now we have *THREE* "standards"?
(insert profanity laden outburst reminiscent of Steve Martin's scene in Trains Planes and Automobiles when his rented car is stolen).

--
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
1. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Junta · 2018-06-05 05:46 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  No, we have one standard (OpenGL and subsequently Vulkan) and two proprietary implementations (DirectX and Metal).
  In Windows land, the only thing that is required to work (by Microsoft) is DirectX, but in practice the GPU vendors always have to support OpenGL and Vulkan.
  It may be possible that Apple is taking a similar stance (according to Microsoft in the strictest interpretation, neither OpenGL or Vulkan is 'supported' in Windows either, last I heard). I don't know if GPU driver vendors are going to be similarly empowered to bring Vulkan support regardless of the OS not doing so.
  
  --
  XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
2. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 05:46 · Score: 0
  
  Doesn't the joke go something like: "Standards are great--there's always so many to choose from"?
3. Re:Oh, fuck.... by mark-t · 2018-06-05 05:58 · Score: 1
  
  As I read it, they are actually deprecating the API's, which I would take to mean that while existing applications will continue to work, any (new) applications that utilize them will not pass the criteria for approval.
  
  --
  File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
4. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Mordaximus · 2018-06-05 06:05 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  I imagine this has a lot to do with the announcement during the WWDC keynote that they are working on allowing iOS apps to run in macOS. That's far simpler if they stick with Metal and do away with Open GL.
5. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Junta · 2018-06-05 06:10 · Score: 1
  
  Note that in the Windows case, the OS does not provide nor need it provide the APIs, the APIs are provided by the GPU vendor as part of it's 'driver' package (which also generally includes OpenGL libraries).
  Microsoft also deprecated the APIs, but that does not preclude third parties from stepping in to do what's required. At the time there was a great amount of fear and assumptions that it was going to kill off OpenGL, but in the end OpenGL carried on forever because it turned out there was a market for a cross-platform solution, even if each platform wasn't interested in enabling it.
  
  --
  XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
6. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Junta · 2018-06-05 06:11 · Score: 1
  
  If you are saying they won't support iOS OpenGL apps, that's one thing toward your hypothesis. It would not, however, make anything easier for iOS apps if macOS apps can't use OpenGL....
  
  --
  XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
7. Re:Oh, fuck.... by F.Ultra · 2018-06-05 06:14 · Score: 1
  
  at some point they must also abondon the drivers or they will have to keep on maintaining their old OpenGL drivers for ages without "benefits". Anyway, any one sane will move to Vulkan and just use MoltenVK for the iOS and macOS ports. Don't know if there exists anything similar to make Vulkan work on DX12 but I would be surprised if there isn't.
8. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:14 · Score: 0
  
  Simpler for them, maybe. They are throwing devs under the bus. As if it wasn't enough to have to support dark theme and another device form factor.
9. Re:Oh, fuck.... by DarkOx · 2018-06-05 06:20 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Which should pretty much tell you that OSX is dead now. Apple is just figuring out the recipe for boiling the frogs slowly enough they don't know what is happening. Looks like they go it down
  0) Build a large library of applications in the locked down iOS eco system
  2) Don't abandon but scale back the technical and QA investments in OSX just enough that people feel it across a few generations.
  3) Choke out the MacOS ecosystem by making it complete with iOS apps that can now run on OSX.
  4) Convince existing MacOS users to move to iOS devices because hey all your software is iOS apps now anyway.
  5) Walled garden complete, semi open platform gone, most customers retained and locked in, profit!
  Heck there isnt even a ??? step
  
  --
  Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
10. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:32 · Score: 0
  
  All I remember is the response: "You're fucked".
11. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Joce640k · 2018-06-05 06:33 · Score: 1
  
  I imagine this has a lot to do with the announcement during the WWDC keynote that they are working on allowing iOS apps to run in macOS. That's far simpler if they stick with Metal and do away with Open GL.
  OpenGL already works on both.
  Going from Mac->iOS might be difficult if you didn't plan for it but going from iOS to Mac (ie. OpenGL ES to OpenGL) is easy.
  
  --
  No sig today...
12. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:44 · Score: 1
  
  So now we have *THREE* "standards"?
  Well, once again, this is relevant.
  The whole point of standards is obviated when everyone decides they can do it better and start all over.
  Nobody wants standards (at least, big companies don't), they want vendor lock in.
13. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Darinbob · 2018-06-05 06:54 · Score: 1
  
  Why do you need approval? On Windows at least (maybe the only good thing about it) is that you don't need Microsoft's permission to run your own software, libraries, drivers, etc.
14. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Darinbob · 2018-06-05 06:55 · Score: 1
  
  You're implying that there are indeed iOS apps that are worth running on OSX. Evidence?
15. Re: Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:59 · Score: 0
  
  I think it also ties into when they switch to their own CPU/GPU processors in 2020.
16. Re:Oh, fuck.... by BancBoy · 2018-06-05 06:59 · Score: 1
  
  My recollection was something along the lines of "Standards are great, everyone should have their own."
  
  --
  [UID-HeinzIntel]
17. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Schnapple · 2018-06-05 07:00 · Score: 2
  
  Again you're getting this wrong. They said they were going to bring UIKit to macOS. That's all. The press is reporting on this like it's going to be some sort of magic thing that lets your iOS apps run on the Mac, oe that they're merging the operating systems, or that the Mac is going to have at touch interface. It's not that.
  There's two UI libraries in the Apple world. The Mac uses AppKit and iOS uses UIKit. They have similarities but they're different enough to be a challenge. The big overall thing is that AppKit is much older than UIKit which makes sense as the Mac is older than the iPhone. It's been said that to some extent UIKit is what AppKit would be if they started over on it today and were able to use all of the stuff they've learned over the years, which is basically exactly the situation they were in when making the iPhone.
  So for example, let's say you have an iOS app and you have a screen where you need a text view. Like, it's a box with text in it and if it needs to, it can scroll if you have too much text in it. You can make it read-only or editable. So you drag a UITextView onto the screen and you're most of the way there. It has a text property and you set that to be what the text is, either in the designer or in the code. You can specify if it's editable, scrollable, etc. in the same way.
  Now let's say you want to do that same thing on the Mac. You have a form and you drag an NSTextView control onto it. It has the same name except for the first two letters because Apple's naming convention (at least in the Objective-C era) is to have the first 2-3 letters be uppercase and the rest be descriptive. UI stands for UIKit. The NS? That stands for NEXTSTEP (that's really the name in all caps like that), because macOS is derived from what used to be NEXTSTEP, which was the OS from the company Steve Jobs started when Apple gave him the boot. Yeah.
  OK so UITextView vs. NSTextView. Simple enough, right? Well not quite. See, when you drag that onto the form you'll notice that it's an NSTextView embedded in an NSClipView, and then that's embedded in an NSScrollView along with two NSScroller objects for the scrollbars. So everything involved in this equation gets its own separate object and so you have to remember to specify the text in the NSTextView but the scrolling in the NSScrollView. And I'm not sure what the NSClipView does other than just provide a window into whatever part of the view the NSTextView is visible.
  Basically at some point they realized everyone wanted to work with the one object and have it handle all the stuff like scrolling and scrollbars itself. And this is one simple example. But it means that it's not quite as simple as writing some library that says "if Mac then NSTextView else UITextView", although some have tried. In fact apparently Apple has a library of their own called UXKit that basically does that but it's not available for use yet.
  
  --
  Schnapple
18. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Freischutz · 2018-06-05 07:05 · Score: 3
  
  Which should pretty much tell you that OSX is dead now. Apple is just figuring out the recipe for boiling the frogs slowly enough they don't know what is happening. Looks like they go it down
  0) Build a large library of applications in the locked down iOS eco system 2) Don't abandon but scale back the technical and QA investments in OSX just enough that people feel it across a few generations. 3) Choke out the MacOS ecosystem by making it complete with iOS apps that can now run on OSX. 4) Convince existing MacOS users to move to iOS devices because hey all your software is iOS apps now anyway. 5) Walled garden complete, semi open platform gone, most customers retained and locked in, profit!
  Heck there isnt even a ??? step
  There hasn't been a OS X release since 2016 when they changed the name to macOS and large portions of your rant apply to Windows+DirectX too. Neither of those two is dead yet so I think your predictions of the death of macOS (which is presumably what you meant) are somewhat premature. Personally I would have liked to see Apple go for Vulkan instead of pissing about with their own API but there is at least one compatibility layer, MoltenVK, so I'm not seeing any reason to go into a full-blown panic attack and twist my underpants up into a bunch. Besides, Apple has been known to do a 180 and it would not surprise me if they just decided out of the blue to switch to Vulkan at some point in time. Until then my (rather insubstantial) gaming needs are perfectly well served by macOS/iOS and if I ever feel the need to do any hardcore gaming I'll either buy a console or (Yuck, Yuck! and triple YUCK!) buy a Windows box for gaming.
19. Re:Oh, fuck.... by mark-t · 2018-06-05 07:16 · Score: 1
  
  We were talking about the mac, though.
  
  --
  File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
20. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 07:20 · Score: 0
  
  Why do you need approval? On Windows at least (maybe the only good thing about it) is that you don't need Microsoft's permission to run your own software, libraries, drivers, etc.
  is that really true? like really really true?
21. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Tough+Love · 2018-06-05 07:34 · Score: 1
  
  So now we have *THREE* "standards"?
  Apple's pale imitation of Vulkan is not standard and never will be. What we have is, alienating developers and users at the same time. Good job.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
22. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 07:37 · Score: 0
  
  Metal came before Vulcan retard.
23. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Tough+Love · 2018-06-05 08:13 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Metal came before Vulcan retard.
  Apple cultist much? Shows.
  Mantle came before Vulkan. Mantle came before Metal. Apple knew that the Vulcan standard was in development and idiotically forked Metal from it. Vulcan is a standard, Metal is not. Metal is just a piece of proprietary crap, that does not have the broad, consistent feature set of Vulkan and does not have the developer mind share or the application base. Mantle will descend further into crapland while Vulkan goes on to new amazing achievements. (Have you seen the demos? Have you seen the shipping games? Can you spell "Doom"? Heh.)
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
24. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Tough+Love · 2018-06-05 08:27 · Score: 1
  
  As I read it, they are actually deprecating the API's
  "Deprecating" does not mean "not supporting", it means "trying to scare developers'. They will succeed at that: developers will be scared away from Apple, more than they already are.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
25. Re:Oh, fuck.... by shmlco · 2018-06-05 08:37 · Score: 1
  
  Code your app correctly using constraints and traits and form factor changes don't matter.
  Pretty much the same for dark theme.
  
  --
  Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
26. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 08:39 · Score: 0
  
  No, hardware vendors have to re-implement OpenGL in their custom drivers because Microsoft refused to do it, instead they provided the minimal OpenGL implementation to allow GDI access, but their code is still antiquated.
  https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/60544/why-do-game-developers-prefer-windows/88055#88055
27. Re:Oh, fuck.... by TheFakeTimCook · 2018-06-05 10:20 · Score: 1
  
  As I read it, they are actually deprecating the API's, which I would take to mean that while existing applications will continue to work, any (new) applications that utilize them will not pass the criteria for approval.
  Which only matters if you are selling them on the Mac App Store.
28. Re:Oh, fuck.... by TheFakeTimCook · 2018-06-05 10:22 · Score: 1
  
  Why do you need approval? On Windows at least (maybe the only good thing about it) is that you don't need Microsoft's permission to run your own software, libraries, drivers, etc.
  And you REALLY think that isn't true on macOS?
29. Re:Oh, fuck.... by TheFakeTimCook · 2018-06-05 10:23 · Score: 0
  
  Which should pretty much tell you that OSX is dead now. Apple is just figuring out the recipe for boiling the frogs slowly enough they don't know what is happening. Looks like they go it down
  0) Build a large library of applications in the locked down iOS eco system
  2) Don't abandon but scale back the technical and QA investments in OSX just enough that people feel it across a few generations.
  3) Choke out the MacOS ecosystem by making it complete with iOS apps that can now run on OSX.
  4) Convince existing MacOS users to move to iOS devices because hey all your software is iOS apps now anyway.
  5) Walled garden complete, semi open platform gone, most customers retained and locked in, profit!
  Heck there isnt even a ??? step
  You are 100% FULL OF SHIT.
30. Re: Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 10:25 · Score: 0
  
  MoltenVK has to transcode all shader code, or precompile, which is a pain in the ass.
  Saying that Vulkan is a direct and natural transition is just senseless. Vulkan is much harder to run through development iterations, more complex, and all that with marginal benefits that are hype and completely unjustifiable.
31. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 10:29 · Score: 0
  
  6) Move completely to the new CPU arch for complete lock-in.
32. Re: Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 10:39 · Score: 0
  
  You are an idiot, we are talking about graphics apps, not your shitty fart apps.
33. Re: Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 10:55 · Score: 0
  
  I have to agree, metal whatever is a proprietary crap that does not provide C++ binding.
  On the other hand, OpenGL is an easier API compared to Vulkan, with the same performance and with programmable GPU features. Two coexist naturally, idiot Tim Cock might as well kill himself, Apple is a dead horse.
34. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 11:04 · Score: 0
  
  I highly recommend you stop talking about a subject matter you know nothing about.
  Metal was in development for several years before its first release in 2014, two years before Vulkan in 2016. Metal was created because of the failure of OpenCL, which Apple championed. Metal has been in use for four years by over one million programs, either directly or through other frameworks. I don't consider that to be a failure.
  Vulkan is based off Mantle. In 2015, AMD donated Mantle to Khronos and stopped further development. That same year, Vulkan was publicly announced by Khronos and released the following year. AMD did this because they saw where DirectX was headed with a preview of DirectX 12. Mantle only supported Windows, not Linux or MacOS.
35. Re: Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 11:08 · Score: 0
  
  I agree, mod parent up, please...
36. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Tough+Love · 2018-06-05 11:41 · Score: 2
  
  Metal was in development for several years before its first release in 2014
  Exhibit A: AMD originally developed Mantle in cooperation with DICE, starting in 2013
  Exhibit B: Metal has been available since June 2, 2014
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
37. Re: Oh, fuck.... by F.Ultra · 2018-06-05 11:43 · Score: 1
  
  The Linux/macOS porters at Feral does not agree with you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
38. Re: Oh, fuck.... by cheesybagel · 2018-06-05 11:52 · Score: 1
  
  The shader code already needs to be compiled by the graphics driver to the particular GPU architecture anyway. It's just an extra compilation step.
  Vulkan at least will be multiplatform and already has significant support in Windows for example.
39. Re:Oh, fuck.... by phantomfive · 2018-06-05 12:24 · Score: 1
  
  Microsoft is doing their best to make Windows a platform people don't want to run to.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
40. Re:Oh, fuck.... by exomondo · 2018-06-05 13:14 · Score: 1
  
  Well vendors supply support for OpenGL and Vulkan in their drivers for Windows, Apple restricts that which is why OpenGL support is stuck at the 2010 release (5 years before Metal was even available on MacOS) and why Vulkan is only available as an abstraction over Metal and not as a native driver library.
41. Re:Oh, fuck.... by exomondo · 2018-06-05 13:20 · Score: 1
  
  No, hardware vendors have to re-implement OpenGL in their custom drivers because Microsoft refused to do it
  Of course they have to do that, how do you expect Microsoft to write an implementation of OpenGL for every vendor's hardware? It's exactly the same on Linux, the vendor provides the OpenGL driver which is the implementation of OpenGL for their hardware. This is also why the free software drivers lag the proprietary ones, because the free software devs are trying to write an OpenGL implementation for hardware that they don't have the full specifications for.
42. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 13:23 · Score: 0
  
  AMD of course donated Mantle to be the foundation for an open standard across the industry. Apple on the other hand produced a proprietary, closed specification that they do not share and to be strictly Apple-only and most definitely **not** a standard at all.
43. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 13:31 · Score: 0
  
  Come on, even the most rabid Apple apologist and fanboy can see the writing on the wall: Hardware that is becoming increasingly hard to modify, proprietary APIs to access that hardware, the hardware itself is proprietary Apple chips (already on iOS and rumor of it coming to the Mac soon as well), proprietary and closed interoperability protocols like AirDrop, AirPlay and Lightning.
  If you want to be a corporate shill that's up to you but don't pretend like you are genuinely that stupid frog who doesn't notice the water getting warmer, I don't believe you are actually that dumb.
44. Re: Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 15:56 · Score: 0
  
  MoltenVK has to transcode all shader code, or precompile, which is a pain in the ass.
  With Vulkan you precompile your shaders to SPIR-V, OpenGL has now added support for this too.
  
  Saying that Vulkan is a direct and natural transition is just senseless.
  Why? OpenGL was designed as an abstraction over fixed function state machine hardware and has had to evolve to support the complex architectures we have today and drivers have grown increasingly large and complex to be able to support it. It is not a good abstraction of current hardware, hence Vulkan.
  
  Vulkan is much harder to run through development iterations
  Can you be more specific about that?
  
  more complex
  Well yes, it is an abstraction of complex hardware, OpenGL was designed as an abstraction of simple hardware so much of the important functionality has to be buried in the driver where it is not configurable. If you want a simple abstraction then there are plenty of libraries and game engines that will provide that to you over Vulkan/DX12/Metal.
  
  and all that with marginal benefits that are hype and completely unjustifiable.
  Have you got any citation to justify that assertion?
45. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 16:53 · Score: 0
  
  I believe he is that dumb. Just read over some of his other blind pro-apple comments.
46. Re: Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 17:25 · Score: 0
  
  Just watch the above video. It proves that Vulkan brings no real performance benefit for small scale projects. OpenGL is the true cross platform API. And metal is garbage.
47. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 18:25 · Score: 0
  
  Was there a point to your links? They don't disagree with anything I said. Development on Metal began in 2012 and it was released in 2014. The purpose of Metal was to replace OpenCL and OpenGL functionality was also rolled in.
  Your statement that Metal was a fork of Vulkan is wrong. Unless you think Apple had a spy inside AMD that copied the Mantle source code (which only worked on Windows and certain AMD GPUs) and traveled back in time to deliver the code to Cupertino.
48. Re: Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 18:31 · Score: 0
  
  Yes, and that is by design. Objective-C and Swift are the supported languages. Objective-C has been the primary language of MacOS since the release of OS X in 2001. I would expect anybody that develops on the MacOS or iOS platforms to know this detail, which leads me to believe you are ranting for the sake of the rant.
49. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 18:41 · Score: 0
  
  The reason AMD donated it to Khronos was because it was going to be eclipsed by DirectX 12. Mantle worked only on Windows and only for certain AMD GPUs. Metal is just like DirectX. It is nothing more and nothing less.
50. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 19:11 · Score: 0
  
  There hasn't been a OS X release since 2016 when they changed the name to macOS
  You know the argument is going to be good when you start off with a technicality.
51. Re: Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 21:04 · Score: 0
  
  It doesn't show that at all and applications being ported to Vulkan are applications that have been designed with the abstraction level of OpenGL in mind so its silly to suggest that simply porting an OpenGL application over to Vulkan is going to just give you free performance. Moreover even if Vulkan didn't bring a performance benefit to small scale projects that's ok, it doesn't have to be everything to everybody and further to that OpenGL is still going strong with no sign that it is going away any time soon, new versions are being actively worked on across the various industry participants of the Khronos group.
52. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 21:12 · Score: 0
  
  The reason AMD donated it to Khronos was because it was going to be eclipsed by DirectX 12. Mantle worked only on Windows and only for certain AMD GPUs.
  Of course it did, it was AMDs standard so it only worked with their own GCN chips as an experiment but they donated it as an open standard for cross platform compatibility. Apple doesn't want this, they want lock-in so their move is to use a closed source, proprietary library and deprecate the open standard.
  
  Metal is just like DirectX. It is nothing more and nothing less.
  Right, Apple are more Microsoft than Microsoft these days. Proprietary connectors (Lightning), proprietary communications protocols like AirPlay and AirDrop, proprietary APIs (including 'private' APIs only accessible to them which is one of the things Microsoft was dinged for as anti-competitive behaviour). And ultimately they give you a shit product like Siri that can't even play music from any services other than Apple's own even though assistants like Google's and Amazon's have no problem doing it.
53. Re:Oh, fuck.... by Freischutz · 2018-06-05 21:53 · Score: 1
  
  There hasn't been a OS X release since 2016 when they changed the name to macOS
  You know the argument is going to be good when you start off with a technicality.
  Well, it seems to me that if you are going to dump all over a product you should at least get the name right since if you don't, it doesn't inspire much confidence in the validity of your arguments.
54. Re:Oh, fuck.... by JohnStock · 2018-06-05 23:08 · Score: 1
  
  Serious.. People are still using the 2 year old Doom game as validation for the success of Vulcan? Is it really that bad?
What does this have to do... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 05:25 · Score: 0

... with Trump being bad or AGW being scary?
Is this still /.?
What is haaappennnning???
1. Re:What does this have to do... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 05:54 · Score: 0
  
  I used to come here hourly. Then daily. Then weekly. Then months would pass. Now I only open it at work because 1. i'm bored and 2. muscle memory.
  But /. is looooooong gone. I quite remember the first microsofty articles, the slippery slope which turned the / into \. Retarded.
2. Re:What does this have to do... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:59 · Score: 0
  
  what is up with teh name of this app anyway? i mean, forward slash period? wut is that supposd too mean?
WTF is metal? by iplayfast · 2018-06-05 05:26 · Score: 0

Is that an Apple only thing? or have I been away for graphics programming so long a replacement for opengl has snuck in. OpenCL is a nice hardware cross platform way of using the GPU, I guess Apple doesn't want to play with others?
1. Re:WTF is metal? by slew · 2018-06-05 05:34 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I guess Apple doesn't want to play with others?
  You just noticed that?
Rebel by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 05:27 · Score: 0

Tell them to stick Metal where QD3D went...
That is stupid... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 05:28 · Score: 0

... in so many ways. Typical Apple. Heaven forbid any code be reusable between platforms.
Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.. by xtal · 2018-06-05 05:29 · Score: 0

Open standards are a good thing.. we've seen this script before, because it works.
I like OpenGL.. but money talks.

--
..don't panic
1. Re:Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 05:46 · Score: 0
  
  Apple isn't doing it right... they're not supposed to Extinguish themselves.
2. Re:Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.. by xtal · 2018-06-05 05:52 · Score: 1
  
  Looking at their revenues, I don't think Apple is in any danger.
  
  --
  ..don't panic
3. Re:Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 07:45 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Now look at their OSX revenues.
4. Re:Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-06 19:35 · Score: 0
  
  The Mac revenue has been good for over a decade. Even when the PC industry as a whole was hurting, Apple was rolling in profits from Mac sales.
Goodbye Games by omnichad · 2018-06-05 05:31 · Score: 0

There will be no more support for cross-platform games on the Mac, then, I guess. Until someone makes a translation layer that will translate OpenGL calls to Metal, that is.
1. Re:Goodbye Games by xtal · 2018-06-05 05:42 · Score: 1
  
  Macs don't have modern 3D capabilities at the moment. It's not a major driver.
  
  --
  ..don't panic
2. Re: Goodbye Games by mSparks43 · 2018-06-05 05:48 · Score: 1
  
  trade->Apple->Open new Short.
3. Re:Goodbye Games by Junta · 2018-06-05 05:48 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I remember when Microsoft dropped OpenGL from the Windows platform. In practice, nothing changed as the GPU vendors kept providing OpenGL implementations anyway.
  It just meant that MS was stopping the rather crappy job they were doing with OpenGL that the GPU vendors were already replacing anyway.
  It being Apple, they could throw a bigger fit and forbid it, but at least it's possible that OS dropping support may mean nothing in practice.
  
  --
  XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
4. Re:Goodbye Games by slew · 2018-06-05 06:04 · Score: 1
  
  There will be no more support for cross-platform games on the Mac, then, I guess. Until someone makes a translation layer that will translate OpenGL calls to Metal, that is.
  If Apple follows their standard game plan, no apps that translation layers not available in source form will be allowed on the platform. Fortunately, Valve has convinced MoltenVK to release their Vulkan 2 Metal translation layers in open source to allow this.
  Unfortunately, Vulkan isn't OpenGL, but it's OpenGL evolved, so unless there is someone that wants to do this for backward compatibility purposes, OpenGL is dead...
5. Re:Goodbye Games by F.Ultra · 2018-06-05 06:16 · Score: 1
  
  There is MoltenVK that translates Vulkan to Metal natively so you can code for Vulkan and then just pass it trough Molten on iOS and macOS.
6. Re:Goodbye Games by Darinbob · 2018-06-05 07:01 · Score: 1
  
  I know a lot of people running MMOs on Macs because there's cross platform support. There's a big enough demand for this that some games even added official support for Macs.
7. Re:Goodbye Games by fleabay · 2018-06-05 14:38 · Score: 1
  
  On Mac OS X the graphics driver is part of the operating system. You can only upgrade by upgrading to a newer version of the operating system.
  
  --
  PlanetVulkan.com
8. Re:Goodbye Games by exomondo · 2018-06-05 16:34 · Score: 1
  
  I remember when Microsoft dropped OpenGL from the Windows platform.
  Well the implementation generally came in the form of an MCD anyway and the obvious progression was to move to an ICD model (the same as is done on Linux) especially as hardware became more complex so vendors could implement the OpenGL spec for their own hardware.
  
  It being Apple, they could throw a bigger fit and forbid it, but at least it's possible that OS dropping support may mean nothing in practice.
  Apple doesn't use an ICD model for OpenGL, that's why the best OpenGL support you can get on a Mac (even before the 2015 introduction of Metal on the Mac) is 4.1 from 2010. Apple always lagged in OpenGL support, it's never been very good.
9. Re:Goodbye Games by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 16:41 · Score: 0
  
  "Well the implementation generally came in the form of an MCD anyway and the obvious progression was to move to an ICD model (the same as is done on Linux) especially as hardware became more complex so vendors could implement the OpenGL spec for their own hardware."
  This argument could be applied to directx too but microsoft still shipped directx with windows.
10. Re:Goodbye Games by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 17:05 · Score: 0
  
  You can implement everything you need for opengl on top of metal.
11. Re:Goodbye Games by exomondo · 2018-06-05 17:06 · Score: 1
  
  This argument could be applied to directx too but microsoft still shipped directx with windows.
  Of course they do, they are the vendor of DirectX and the platforms on which it is supported so it makes sense for them to ship it, the actual hardware implementation is still supplied by the hardware vendor though.
12. Re:Goodbye Games by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 18:19 · Score: 0
  
  Difference with apple is that.. apple has always made all the drivers themselves. No 3rd party opengl drivers there. This also explains why macs haven't seen updated opengl drivers for ages.
13. Re:Goodbye Games by VisceralLogic · 2018-06-06 11:17 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, you can download alternative drivers directly from NVidia, although I doubt many Mac users do this.
  
  --
  Stop! Dremel time!
Mandatory XKCD by Zorro · 2018-06-05 05:34 · Score: 4, Funny

https://xkcd.com/927/
1. Re:Mandatory XKCD by feedayeen · 2018-06-05 05:44 · Score: 1
  
  That's not quite accurate: Developers can port games to from Macs to Windows? Ridiculous! We need those platform exclusives!
2. Re:Mandatory XKCD by Boh00711 · 2018-06-05 06:26 · Score: 1
  
  Eh, as I understand it, Apple did that thing where they purposely make a new trail when there are already perfectly good trails available. Rather than say "here's the new best for everything to use", they go with "here's the thing that you can't back out of once you are assimilated into the machine."
3. Re:Mandatory XKCD by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:29 · Score: 0
  
  Has Apple had any platform exclusive games in the last 2 decades?
  Would anyone attempt to target the OSX market for games?
  I figured they went with OpenGL because at least that way they would get in on the cross-platform games and only lose out on the DirectX games.
  I guess they just don't want any games?
  Bravery!
4. Re:Mandatory XKCD by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 08:34 · Score: 0
  
  Don't they at least have Apple Chess as platform exclusive? On Wikipedia's list of Apple games it had two games released last year, none for 2018. Perhaps they really can remove OpenGL support without anyone of their customers noticing, as long as Safari continues rendering Facebook and Instagram pages.
5. Re:Mandatory XKCD by Pseudonym · 2018-06-05 10:49 · Score: 1
  
  Has Apple had any platform exclusive games in the last 2 decades?
  On iOS, yes.
  
  I figured they went with OpenGL because at least that way they would get in on the cross-platform games and only lose out on the DirectX games.
  They supported OpenGL because that's what all the "workstation" applications wanted. They probably haven't rushed to support OpenGL 4 because Adobe and Autodesk and Avid don't strictly need it.
  
  --
  sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
6. Re:Mandatory XKCD by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-06 08:28 · Score: 0
  
  PLEASE!!!. HTML is legacy tech. apple will be deprecating it in the next software release.
OpenGL isn't deprecated. by hitchhacker · 2018-06-05 05:42 · Score: 0

I see this mistake being made a lot lately since Vulkan is the new shiny thing. It is still recommended to write to OpenGL if you are developing directly on top of a graphics api. Vulkan is more for lower level engine developers. Looks like Apple just wants to push their own api here?
1. Re:OpenGL isn't deprecated. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 05:54 · Score: 1
  
  Are you a shill or just don't bother to RTFA and make assumptions, then lie about it?
  I went to the link at apple.com in the article.
  DIRECT QUOTE
  "Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
  Apps built using OpenGL and OpenCL will continue to run in macOS 10.14, but these legacy technologies are deprecated in macOS 10.14. "
  captcha: revokes
2. Re: OpenGL isn't deprecated. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:51 · Score: 0
  
  Iâ(TM)m betting this push for using metal more is so that when Apple switches to their own CPU/GPU, all the old apps will just work.
3. Re:OpenGL isn't deprecated. by hitchhacker · 2018-06-05 07:27 · Score: 1
  
  I meant the standard as an open API isn't deprecated and will still be advanced with new versions and features going long into the future.. with or without Apple. ie. OpenGL isn't dead, but I've noticed a lot of people think it is because there's Vulkan now.
4. Re:OpenGL isn't deprecated. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 08:53 · Score: 0
  
  The article is not about OpenGL in general, you fool. Read TFA !!
apple wants there own DirectX to bad mac don't hav by Joe_Dragon · 2018-06-05 05:42 · Score: 1, Insightful

apple wants there own DirectX to bad mac don't have good video cards or cpus.
And no the $5K imac pro with down clocked cpus does not count.
Apple loves throwing away their users by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 05:46 · Score: 4, Insightful

Thanks for throwing away the scientific community Apple. The penguin welcomes them with open arms. But at least Apple users have memojis.
1. Re:Apple loves throwing away their users by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 07:26 · Score: 0
  
  No scientific codes use OpenCL. They all use the proprietary cuda.
The infuriating part for me... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 05:46 · Score: 5, Insightful

Is OpenGL support *FINALLY* got good enough on linux to support both native and emulated software for the past 20 years... and now everybody is for ripping it all back out again before the fine polishing is done and replace it with something ELSE.
This is why we never have nice things in the computer world. Nobody is willing to take a pause on the standards train and finish up something so it is verifiable, immutable, and secure, while working on the either the next iteration of the standard, or an entirely new standard experimentally while benefiting from the existence of the old stable one until the new standard at least reaches the same level of stability as the old one had when the new one was started. As a result we've got a nightmarish morass of half implemented and broke standards some of whose least documented corner cases cause software breakage that may be difficult or possible to infer in future bug fixing endeavors because the particular iteration of documentation or discussion of the bug in question no longer exists.
1. Re: The infuriating part for me... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:01 · Score: 0
  
  Exactly. Join the club. Seriously, I'm going to start the "Stable Software Developers Guild". Something like that.
2. Re: The infuriating part for me... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:55 · Score: 0
  
  Take a look at OpenBSD ;-)
3. Re:The infuriating part for me... by swb · 2018-06-05 07:05 · Score: 1
  
  How can you pause and finish up the standards implementation when someone is juuuusssttt about to release a newer, better standard? Better giddyup and release the next iteration of the standard, don't finish the current one.
  I think most of the problem is the 90/10 rule. The last 10% takes 90% of the time and it's boring and uninteresting work that involves fixing bugs and making the hard to work bits work right.
  It's not nearly as interesting as dreaming about a new, better standard that's broader, more all-encompassing and just better. Might as well announce it to everybody and get people interested in that and hopefully kill off that bad, old standard -- I mean, they never finished it, did they?
4. Re:The infuriating part for me... by Tough+Love · 2018-06-05 08:23 · Score: 1
  
  How can you pause and finish up the standards implementation when someone is juuuusssttt about to release a newer, better standard?
  OpenGL standardization is going just fine, the latest is 4.6 last August, now supporting Vulkan's intermediate shader code (SPIR-V) and a bunch of other goodies including improved parallelization. You don't want this for your next 3D shooter, but you do want it for a CAD system or to learn 3D graphics. Trust me, you do not want to start with Vulkan, which is pros-only zone.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
5. Re:The infuriating part for me... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 12:14 · Score: 0
  
  What do you mean, "finally" got good? NVidia has had 100% 3D acceleration support on Linux for close to 15 years now.
  There's a difference between "not having support" and "the support not coming on the terms I am in no position to demand."
6. Re:The infuriating part for me... by thegarbz · 2018-06-05 21:14 · Score: 1
  
  This is why we never have nice things
  Because we're working on nicer things? Honestly I think we have plenty of nice things, and sitting on our asses fine tuning ad nauseam won't help that.
  Leave the perfection to the mainframes counting our money.
7. Re:The infuriating part for me... by JohnStock · 2018-06-05 23:03 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe, if you know, used a Windows PC that has never had issues with games then there would be nothing to moan about rather than sacrificing yourself on the altar of Linux. Lets the platform support you, not the other way around.
In related news... by NotFamous · 2018-06-05 05:53 · Score: 1

They have deprecated the C runtime and text files, replacing them with the Parrot VM and Binary Code Decimal "Speak" files.

--
Some settling may occur during posting.
Sad but understable development by williamyf · 2018-06-05 05:54 · Score: 3, Interesting

At some point, apple bet big on OpenCL on the mac, even by rewriting big chuncks of the OS to use it. Anyone remembers grand central dispatch?
But I guess they got tired of waititng for the standards bodies to deliver the functionality they needed, and just as they did with PCIe Solid state storage, they developed their own technology and went their separate way.
Still, sad to see this happen, as going metal only (no OpenCL, no OpenGL and no Vulkan) means less games for my mac, and less support for a true multiplatform standard

--
*** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
1. Re:Sad but understable development by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:48 · Score: 0
  
  Well they had to bet big on OpenCL because CUDA is nVidia specific. CUDA is literally built to fit the hardware of nVidia GPUs, it cannot run efficiently on anything else.
  Pretty fucking stupid to deprecate it though ... we're finally getting good OpenCL support in the machine learning tools etc.
  Apple does not realize that it's important to support high end use cases. They have shit high-end hardware (or grossly overpriced) and now they are getting rid of the libraries needed to support machine learning on mac? Goddamn retarded.
2. Re:Sad but understable development by Type44Q · 2018-06-05 06:52 · Score: 1
  
  Q) What does Microsoft embracing POSIX have in common in with Apple abandoning it?
  A) They're both signs of defeat.
3. Re:Sad but understable development by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:57 · Score: 0
  
  They needed something faster than OpenGL and OpenCL and everyone was dragging their feet. So Apple made Metal in parallel with another company (NVidia or AMD, not sure) making Vulkan. Both came out at about the same time, but Apple of course implemented most of their OS on top of Metal already, so they are stuck with it.
  Because Vulkan and Metal are APIs that are extremely similar to each other since both had the same design criteria, expose hardware with minimal abstractions, there is even a high performance translation library available to translate Vulcan to Metal. So there is not really a need to switch over to Vulcan from Apple's side.
4. Re:Sad but understable development by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:59 · Score: 0
  
  Grand Central Dispatch (GCD) has nothing to do with OpenCL.
  Apple originally adopted OpenCL for use with the CoreImage framework, which is also the original reason it bought up the people behind LLVM.
  As you built up a graph of image manipulations, CoreImage would use LLVM to compile OpenCL code on the fly to suit the available features of the GPU, with the CPU filling in for any feature gaps.
  GCD is about providing a userspace API to kernel features for job and event queues, which frees the programmer from a lot of multithreading nonsense and allows the kernel to make smarter system-level decisions about scheduling multiprocessing.
5. Re:Sad but understable development by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 08:00 · Score: 0
  
  Apple did have a brief grand central dispatch OpenCL implementation. It essentially wrapped OpenCL calls into a gcd like api.
6. Re:Sad but understable development by theurge14 · 2018-06-05 08:10 · Score: 1
  
  Dispatch is still there, not sure what the concern is:
  https://developer.apple.com/do...
7. Re:Sad but understable development by Prien715 · 2018-06-05 08:47 · Score: 1
  
  OpenCL really never took off though.
  CUDA was first, fast, and runs well on Linux -- the primary platform of GPGPU engineers. OpenCL, on the other hand, can run on slower AMD based video cards. Your OS choices are Windows (less supported by the open source community), Linux (less supported by AMD's video driver), or on macOS (unsupported by Apple's hardware who's flagship server was last updated by Steve Jobs.) And if you're going to use NVivida hardware anyway, you may as well use CUDA.
  
  --
  -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
8. Re:Sad but understable development by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 09:31 · Score: 0
  
  what the hell are you talking about?
  nobody cares about the Mac Pro - yes it exists but if you are doing desktop work on MacOS you get an iMac - but it supports OpenCL anyway.
  https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202823
  the issue are the macbooks (mainly) and also the imacs. you can't get an nvidia processor. if you want to do machine learning work, you need OpenCL support in the OS. many many engineers have macbook pros.
9. Re:Sad but understable development by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 11:24 · Score: 0
  
  Both came out at about the same time..
  Wrong. Vulkan didn't exist when Metal was released. Metal development was started in 2012 (because of the failure of OpenCL) and was released in 2014. Mantle was donated by AMD to Khronos in 2015 because they saw where DirectX was headed with DirectX 12. It took Khronos a year to finalize the specification for Vulkan. It is important to note that Mantle only supported Windows.
I don't like the smell of this. by Qbertino · 2018-06-05 05:58 · Score: 1

Apple seems to nibble to death it's karma it has with opinion leaders, i.e. us. This could spell trouble for projects like Blender and Xonotic. ... Could be that I might be staying away from new Apple hardware for good.

--
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
1. Re:I don't like the smell of this. by OrangeTide · 2018-06-05 08:34 · Score: 1
  
  You'll save yourself a few bucks by never buying Apple again.
  
  --
  “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
No future for Mac by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 05:58 · Score: 0

My games will apperently be Windows and Linux only. Oh well.
1. Re:No future for Mac by OrangeTide · 2018-06-05 08:35 · Score: 1
  
  Not supporting Android, iOS, Switch, PS4, and Xbox One? Collectively that's a larger market than Windows and Linux. And Linux is the smallest market of the bunch. (Android != Linux, practically speaking)
  
  --
  “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Courage! by grumpy-cowboy · 2018-06-05 06:03 · Score: 1

Period.

--
Will $CURRENT_YEAR be the year of the Linux Desktop?
Re:Metal? or Vulkan? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:08 · Score: 0

On macOS and iOS the Vulkan implementation is based on Metal via MoltenVK.
What would be nice is if Apple included Vulkan with it's macOS and iOS releases.
Not just Apple by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:09 · Score: 0

Apple has always been a big contributor to this tower of babel, so not entirely unexpected. Every year Apple locks down its hardware and platforms ever more tightly.
And now it seems everyone feels compelled to "invent" new whatever. Consider languges. How many damn languages for programming keep coming out each year, although none of the new languages are revolutionary in any way. Rust, Go, C#, Sather, Objective C, some newer, some older, but the great panacea never really pans out, and a year or two later some clodhopper introduces a new language which will SOLVE EVERYTHING!
Things were picking up for OpenCL in the past year. AMD was more open in its support. It was an alternative to dealing with NVIDIA closed source undocumented bullshit. If Apple was unhappy with OpenCL then they should have said so and thrashed it out with the community. So now we have Apple, NVIDIA, and OpenCL, all different, all incompatible. It hurts the developer especially hard. And in end user pays the ultimate price in higher costs, fewer choices , less mature software.
Blender & Modeling tools by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:10 · Score: 1

I see a problem with Blender and other macOS Modeling tools since many are implemented with OpenGL.
1. Re:Blender & Modeling tools by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 07:28 · Score: 0
  
  They should have moved to metal two years ago.
2. Re:Blender & Modeling tools by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 09:52 · Score: 0
  
  Or maybe it was a better use of their time to ignore Metal. Apple is still putting ancient video hardware in their machines, and no library is going to change the consequences of that.
How will this impact WebGL support? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:20 · Score: 3, Interesting

Has Apple given any hints on how this will impact WebGL support in Safari, Firefox, Chrome?
1. Re:How will this impact WebGL support? by UnknownSoldier · 2018-06-05 07:15 · Score: 1
  
  Mod parent +1 insightful.
  As a WebGL developer I'm curious about how this impacts support in the future as well.
  OpenGL ES and by extension, WebGL, are standardized across desktops, tablets, and SoC devices. While Metal is a good clean break from all the legacy baggage being locked into a proprietary API is not good for anyone.
2. Re:How will this impact WebGL support? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 07:31 · Score: 0
  
  Web GL would get implemented using metal.
3. Re:How will this impact WebGL support? by LifesABeach · 2018-06-05 10:17 · Score: 1
  
  possibly an undocumented interface?
4. Re:How will this impact WebGL support? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 10:21 · Score: 0
  
  No it would just be a wrapper around metal.
5. Re:How will this impact WebGL support? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-06 06:49 · Score: 0
  
  Chrome and Firefox use the ANGLE framework, which is an implementation of OpenGL ES + EGL and actually certified as standard-conform by Khronos. ANGLE is mostly developed by Google. On Windows it translates the APIs to DirectX, on Linux it translates them to OpenGL ES and on Mac to regular OpenGL. If Google puts in the effort they could probably port it to Metal.
  ANGLE's usage is not limited to web browsers, I have seen games built on it.
  Also Chrome has a pure software GPU as a fallback.
  In related news, Microsoft has their own OpenGL ES-to-DirectX translator for Edge and IE. I have no idea what Apple does for Safari.
  Their is also WebCL, an adaption of OpenCL. The only problem: no browser supports it or has plans to do so. Too bad, it would have been awesome for in-browser cryptocurrency mining.
Courage! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:23 · Score: 0

We all just want to play iPad apps on Macs anyway!!!!
TruGaming!
amirite?
Neglected for years by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:26 · Score: 0

Two years ago, just before the release of Vulkan, I developed an application using both OpenGL and OpenCL. My carefully written code ran on Windows, on Linux, on Linux embedded boards with OpenGL ES, and on Android with OpenGL ES. But not on Mac. It could have, if Apple's OpenGL implementation hadn't been so buggy and neglected.
It is also curious that Apple originally invented OpenCL, but never updated their own implementation beyond V1.1. Everyone else is already at V2.0 and beyond. Only Nvidia is stuck at V1.2, but they have CUDA to offer instead.
In other news, there are attempts to run a subset of Vulkan on DX12 and Metal, so that you can do cross-platform graphics development with one API.
So it's harder to port apps to android/PC/etc by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:46 · Score: 0

It's basically it's another proprietary lock-in, in particular for the iDevices
OpenGL is still the most supported implementation, with the biggest market penetration, and largest userbase. It will still be that even if apple want to take a shady backward step by making developers lives difficult (because who writes new apps for just one platform nowdays?)
Just another excuse for macos/ios to fall behind again just because some new kid dev wants to push his new idea or exec wants to seal up the market form people jumping ship , I'll watch this unfold with some popcorn.
Just as well I'm moving back to windows/linux (will miss some apps, but I managed before without osx easily enough)
COURAGE!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:49 · Score: 0

That is all.
Re:Just Apple up to its old tricks .. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 06:54 · Score: 0

As compared to what? Have you ever tried to "easily migrate" Direct X to non-Microsoft platforms?
That is completely false by SuperKendall · 2018-06-05 06:58 · Score: 3, Interesting

Apple is doing a lot to help many scientific libraries adopt Metal instead of OpenGL, because it provides more modern GPU support and improves performance.
Only on Slashdot could Apple helping give the scientific community performance gains with existing hardware be considered "throwing away the scientific community"
Not to mention that Slashdot, a supposedly technical community, seems to have forgotten what "deprecate" even means. It's not like OpenGL is gone next year, it's still around and supported - it just means that something coming AFTER Mojave (so earliest, 2020) will drop OpenGL. It might even be after 2020...

--
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
1. Re: That is completely false by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 07:22 · Score: 0
  
  "Apple is doing a lot to help many scientific libraries adopt Metal instead of OpenGL, because it provides more modern GPU support and improves performance"
  Is that really the reason?
2. Re:That is completely false by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 08:36 · Score: 0
  
  Apple is doing a lot to help many scientific libraries adopt Metal instead of OpenGL, because it provides more modern GPU support and improves performance.
  What hardware does Apple even sell that is remotely competitive or even useful in a performance computing context? What are you smoking?
  
  Only on Slashdot could Apple helping give the scientific community performance gains with existing hardware be considered "throwing away the scientific community"
  Only on Slashdot would the phrase "Only on Slashdot" be uttered.
  
  Not to mention that Slashdot, a supposedly technical community, seems to have forgotten what "deprecate" even means.
  Nobody has any idea what deprecate means. Some vendors deprecate things and can be safely ignored because we know full well actually following through would be suicidal for them. Other vendors deprecate things and they are randomly gone a few weeks later. There is no set definition of what deprecate means or the repercussions of it. Whether it is an empty or actual threat everyone must make their own value judgments about on an individualized basis.
  
  It's not like OpenGL is gone next year, it's still around and supported
  So let me get this straight. Vendor announces they don't give a shit about something and threaten to remove it. You argue it is still "supported". Yea whatever. Good luck convincing anyone who matters of that.
  
  it just means that something coming AFTER Mojave (so earliest, 2020) will drop OpenGL. It might even be after 2020...
  You're guessing.
3. Re: That is completely false by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 09:18 · Score: 0
  
  Only an Apple fanboy would celebrate and defend the loss of a very useful and used feature. So courageous!
  Anyone who hasn't been asleep since Jobs died can see Apple doesn't give a fuck about macs anymore.
  It's a shame because they were really kicking some ass for a while.
4. Re:That is completely false by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 09:33 · Score: 0
  
  I don't give two fucks about scientific libraries that support OpenGL because the ones I care about use OpenCL. but I'll assume that was a brain fart on your part and you meant OpenCL.
  The problem is (a) Apple won't update all libraries - there are so many out there and (b) there is often a need to use a specific version of a library because of compatibility issues. Deprecating OpenGL and OpenCL is so mind-bogglingly retarded for a tool used for serious work.
5. Re: That is completely false by NormalVisual · 2018-06-05 09:49 · Score: 1
  
  It's absolute fact that moving to Metal yields performance gains over the same code in OpenGL. So how can you claim it does not improve performance? How can you claim better performance does not help scientific research, which typically has budgetary constraints?
  On Apple hardware, sure, it yields performance gains. However, given the budgetary constraints you mentioned, how many cash-strapped scientific programs in need of solid GPU performance are going to opt for Apple, especially when the GPU(s) in the Power Mac are four years old and lagging far behind what's available now?
  
  --
  Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
6. Re: That is completely false by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 11:22 · Score: 0
  
  OpenGL performs better than Metal because of a huge C++ code and library base. But you, ifagget, wouldn't know.
7. Re: That is completely false by SuperKendall · 2018-06-05 13:50 · Score: 1
  
  However, given the budgetary constraints you mentioned, how many cash-strapped scientific programs in need of solid GPU performance are going to opt for Apple
  Plenty when they can use eGPU based systems so they don't have to spend a ton on the core computer, yet still get the lower administration cost, and stability of a UNIX based system.
  
  --
  "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
8. Re: That is completely false by SuperKendall · 2018-06-05 13:52 · Score: 1
  
  OpenGL performs better than Metal
  Excpet it doesn't - it doesn't run better for games. It certainly doesn't run better for machine learning.
  Only idiot gamer Apple Haters think OpenGL is a better system for scientific computing; you probably think the Scientific Method is a sexual position.
  I'll let you have the last response since the ignorant like to prove the absolute depth of what they do not know...
  
  --
  "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
9. Re: That is completely false by exomondo · 2018-06-05 17:01 · Score: 1
  
  It certainly doesn't run better for machine learning.
  If you want performance for machine learning then now the best approach is really to exploit volta tensor cores using CUDA, so target platforms are Windows or Linux (locally or cloud). Metal is certainly not the best approach for machine learning performance unless you're limited to macOS with mac supported hardware.
10. Re:That is completely false by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 19:22 · Score: 0
  
  Only on Slashdot would a ass like you defend Apple no matter what they did.
11. Re:That is completely false by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 19:26 · Score: 0
  
  I don't think "scientific" means what you think it means.
  Science is about repeatable results by carefully controlling the dependencies of a procedure. In which way would a proprietary platform help in that? Do you record a fingerprint of the binaries? What if, five years down the road you need different binaries because the hardware originally used isn't available? Do you archive the hardware along with the software binaries.
  Jeez. It's difficult as of now to do science properly. The less control you have over your software stack, the more illusory this seems. Thanks, Apple, but no, thanks.
12. Re:That is completely false by thegarbz · 2018-06-05 21:18 · Score: 1
  
  Only on Slashdot could Apple helping give the scientific community performance gains with existing hardware be considered "throwing away the scientific community"
  By locking them into an inferior and non standard system instead of adopting Vulkan?
  Yes they are throwing away the scientific community.
13. Re:That is completely false by JohnStock · 2018-06-05 23:14 · Score: 2
  
  Meanwhile in the real world, software development houses don't fucking jump over themselves to pay for software updates that are forced upon them. Not to mention software that is no longer in development. Seriously there's several layers of ignorance in your post as to how software development works outside of someone's bedroom in the corporate and practical world. Apple has fucked up, stop making stupid excuses.
14. Re:That is completely false by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 23:33 · Score: 0
  
  Performance is great, but compatibility is better if you aren't a big software developer with money to burn (i.e. in the academic / scientific realm). I'll trade a modest performance hit for being able to write to one set of libraries (OpenGL) across 3 or more platforms instead of a mish-mash of proprietary stuff.
15. Re:That is completely false by SuperKendall · 2018-06-06 08:02 · Score: 1
  
  What hardware does Apple even sell that is remotely competitive or even useful in a performance computing context?
  Any system with 3 eGPU's attached, that's the nice thing about eGPU's is they can attach to even a laptop...
  But the iMac Pro certain counts if you also need decent CPU support.
  Nobody has any idea what deprecate means.
  Oh, sorry, I don''t talk with non-technical buffoons.
  You can have the last response to pound your chest or what have you.
  
  --
  "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
dead by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 07:14 · Score: 0

Apple just killed its self.
Wait... MeTAL? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 07:34 · Score: 0

Is S3 making a comeback???
Re:Just Apple up to its old tricks .. by hitchhacker · 2018-06-05 07:36 · Score: 2

uhh, like, as compared to OpenGL..
Apple has no leverage by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 08:10 · Score: 0

WTF virtually nobody uses Apple for gaming or 3D anything as is. Rather than improving their dopey OpenGL they go and sabotage themselves further into oblivion with this DoA "metal" nonsense.
Vulkan is the future. The industry has already spoken and Apple has no leverage. Apple PC penetration is in Linux desktop territory and even Microsoft's DX12 is losing out to Vulkan.
So thats why they called it Mojave by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 08:15 · Score: 0

Because apple plans to have developers desert the mac.
1. Re:So thats why they called it Mojave by LifesABeach · 2018-06-05 10:15 · Score: 1
  
  no, think more simple than that. think license. then ask, why?
Apple are the new Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 08:25 · Score: 0

and Microsoft are better than they used to be. Fuck Apple and their piss-ass walled garden.
Minecraft by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 08:26 · Score: 0

I guess this will kill Minecraft (or any Java OpenGL code) running on a Mac.
Really Sucks... by unique_parrot · 2018-06-05 08:57 · Score: 1

...the "news"... Everything is fu**ed up: what about a decent python version, decent bash version, tar version???? Good luck with that
Re:Just Apple up to its old tricks .. by unique_parrot · 2018-06-05 09:07 · Score: 1

yeah, thats such a shame. I was raging and forgot about opengl, but really, WHY??? They have the $$$ and it's not THAT expensive. Scientists want to use it (and students). Cheap greedy bast****.
Re:Metal? or Vulkan? by sanosuke001 · 2018-06-05 09:33 · Score: 1

So instead of helping to develop Vulkan they go off and make their own thing which will basically make games less likely to support Mac? It's just as bad as Microsoft pushing DirectX as only Windows.

--
-SaNo
Relevance? by LifesABeach · 2018-06-05 10:05 · Score: 1

Maybe it is time to consider that the relevance of Apple is not in the domain of apps for tablets and phones?
Market Choices by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 10:07 · Score: 0

if they abandon open standards, developers and customers are free to abandon Apple.
- Sent from LG Android phone.
OpenGL by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 10:47 · Score: 0

Is for Trump supporters ... and gays....
OpenGL and OpenCL by Trogre · 2018-06-05 12:16 · Score: 1

OpenGL and OpenCL.
Legacy.
This should be used as exhibit A any time someone tries to cast doubt over whether Apple have gone completely fucking batshit loco.

--
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Considering the absolute FUCKING... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 14:48 · Score: 0

...he put on Blackberry, damn right he should change his name to Tim Cock.
Agile killed bug fixes by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 14:54 · Score: 0

Who wants to be a broken record because their mouth repeats the same daily scrum? ... where they say Bug #4 discovered 24 months ago is *still* blocking them and triggering support calls every 3 months?
Agile is designed to promote just puttin' the bug in the backlog and forget about it! close it as unresolved without a single comment from devs or the product manager ... or just mark it wontfix despite several unanswered pleas from users and support folk.
The favorite is "we will not fix this because X product on our drawing board will replace this someday 3 business quarters away" It may or may not delay to 3 years and will definitely implement new experimental features (read, unproven and badly broken for weeks) while ignoring many popular ones that fell thru the cracks in the telemetry.
Why? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-06-05 16:00 · Score: 0

So my guess is this is the next nail in the Apple Coffin. Seems like Apple died with Steve anyone notice how crappy their platform has become lately?
And they have the worst SVG implementation by grungeman · 2018-06-05 21:03 · Score: 1

Of all evergreen browsers, Safari has the worst SVG implementation. It is slow, masking is not according to spec, filters force you to use sRGB interpolation.

BTW, SVG 1.1 was released in 2003. 15 years should really be enough to implement that standard, especially if you are in control of the OS and the browser.

--

Signature deleted by lameness filter.
It's a good job by JohnStock · 2018-06-05 22:59 · Score: 1

That there's no games on the Mac that this will effect anyway
Comment removed by account_deleted · 2018-06-06 08:43 · Score: 1

Comment removed based on user account deletion
Re:Oh, fuck... by TheFakeTimCook · 2018-06-07 21:04 · Score: 1

Come on, even the most rabid Apple apologist and fanboy can see the writing on the wall: Hardware that is becoming increasingly hard to modify, proprietary APIs to access that hardware, the hardware itself is proprietary Apple chips (already on iOS and rumor of it coming to the Mac soon as well), proprietary and closed interoperability protocols like AirDrop, AirPlay and Lightning.
If you want to be a corporate shill that's up to you but don't pretend like you are genuinely that stupid frog who doesn't notice the water getting warmer, I don't believe you are actually that dumb.
If you bothered to watch the WWDC Keynote, you would have learned that Apple isn't making macOS into iOS.
They are doing the much smarter approach: porting-over some key frameworks so the DEVELOPERS can more easily PORT iOS Apps to Mac OS. When ported, these become MAC Apps, NOT, NOT NOT "iOS Apps running in some sort of emulation layer", or anything.
And to prove their point (and as a test of the concept), They revealed that four Applications included with macOS Mojave (Voice Memos, Stocks, Home, and one other I can't recall) are, in fact, iOS Apps that have been Ported using this "UIKit" API. Apple demoed each of these Applications (without revealing their former lives as iOS Apps), and, if you bothered to watch the Keynote, you would have seen, as I, and thousands of others, that there was absolutely NO "iOS-ness" about them. None.
Apple is quite clear about their intentions here: there are literally millions of Apps in the iOS App Store. And while Apple fully knows that they aren't all good candidates for Porting, some not-insignificant percentage WILL be. This is a Good Thing for the Mac, and a Good Thing for the Developers, and thus, a Good Thing for Users.
NOW, you are Informed; so you needn't continue to spout your baseless, Hater diatribe.
Probably won't stop you, though. After all, you ARE only an Anonymous COWARD.
Also, As per usual.
Proprietary Technology by HermMunster · 2018-06-08 01:53 · Score: 1

This is a proprietary technology isn't it? That will go no where.

--
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.