My point is that when you go to a store, it's usually not a problem.
That's kind of my point... When I have gone to an Apple store, my experience has been vastly (and consistently) different, so you are categorically wrong on that point.
Very few people bought that $999 iPhone, many more have bought the $650 and $750 Galaxy phones, though. Many more than have bought iPhones at any price point, in fact. Care to try again?
Oh, having spare computers to fall back on isn't an issue for me, either; but it is for many, so I'm considering that when I speak. Hell, I'm in the middle of moving still and I'm finding working computers I forgot I even still had.
That doesn't negate the fact that not everyone's experience with Apple is as rosy as yours. It sounds like you live near a competently-staffed store; be thankful for that.
Actually, if the tariffs applied equally to everyone, which they likely would, it's an advantage for nobody. It would be a 20% increase across the board and people who would buy an iPhone will still buy an iPhone; nobody is switching from iOS to Android, let alone from flagship phone models to bottom of the barrel, over $160.
And, before you point out that 20% of $1000 is $200, realize that 20% of $200 is $40 and you have to account for that. The price difference between the $1000 phone and the $200 phone is $800; between the $1200 phone and the $240 phone is $960, a $160 relative increase.
Amortized over the two year typical life of a smartphone (though I keep hearing that iPhones last longer, I rarely see older models out there so we'll go with two years), that's less than $7/mo. Not enough to make anyone jump ship, especially when they'd have to re-buy all of their apps.
So, please, tell me again, how stupid was what I typed?
If we're being honest, malware that deletes my data would be the best case, as I'd just restore from a recent backup and be on my merry way, with maybe 5 hours of downtime. Something co-opting my CPU to mine cryptocurrency, though, well... that has a real cost, not only in additional electricity used for the mining activity, but also additional electricity used to cool the room that is now getting hotter as a result of that activity. Now that has a real impact on me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
In fact, it's probably costing the victims more than the assholes who profit from it are making; all parties involved would literally be better off if we were talking about armed robbery, literally stealing cash from wallets and cash registers. Law enforcement and incarceration costs notwithstanding, that's a zero-sum game, while this type of malware is a pure drain on society, much like when someone smashes a car window to steal a $200 stereo they're only gonna be able to get $20 for. Now someone has to pay hundreds to cover someone else's $20 gain -- and that's the case with this type of malware, where the cost to the victim is several times the amount gained by the criminal.
I never said I had a problem. That's a great write up, though, for the kind of people who pay Geek Squad and the like way too much money, if you can think of a place you can post it where someone with so little tech savvy might actually read it.
Otherwise, I'm sorry to say you wasted your time; even if I did have a PC that was just limping along, I wouldn't get hit with something like this in the first place, so it really wouldn't matter. Please, though, try not to hurt yourself too badly when you fall off that high horse.
Yes, since it's entirely impossible for him to not listen to either Cook or Cheng, that's entirely what I meant. Good on you for putting that together.</sarc>
Seriously, think about the words you just fucking typed, there. Do you think Cheng would want tariffs? Or do you think that neither Cheng nor Cook want the tariffs, so listening to one is, for all intents and purposes, the same as listening to the other? Where's your head at and how do you deal with the smell?
Computers crap out just outside of warranty all the time! It's especially prevalent with laptops and no, you can't get it replaced for free if it happens outside of warranty. Even in warranty, good luck fighting with the OEM.
Idle CPU, like 'free memory' is a waste of your computer.
And processing things like SETI@Home and Folding@Home on a general purpose CPU when there are much more efficient dedicated chips for those purposes is a waste of electricity. Hell, in the summer, it's even worse in warmer climates, as the extra heat means the air conditioning will run longer, wasting even more electricity. See, it's not so cut and dry when you consider other factors.
Computers that overheat when used are faulty (maybe dirty/dusty), but need maintenance or something fixed.
That doesn't mean they aren't out there. Trust me when I say plenty of them are out there.
Because CPU defects never happen. Certainly, no marginal CPU has ever been shipped, that was fine under moderate load but shit the bed when pushed to the point that it might thermal throttle. No, you're right, that's unheard of.
Things that cause you to lose your data and/or your computer have to be the worse.
And when your CPU or GPU overheats and shits out because it's being stressed beyond the limits of the cooling system you cheaped out on because you were only putting together a Facebook machine and didn't need it to be able to handle heavy loads? You don't think that qualifies?
Sorry for the double reply, but it strikes me that I should, perhaps, perform a financial analysis of the "pester Apple" approach so it makes sense to you why it's not viable. I'll use my lowest billable rate, to give your method the best chance of success:
Billable rate: $65/hr
Distance to Apple store (one way): 27 miles
Parking for Apple store: $2/hr
Fuel efficiency of my vehicle: 23MPG
Average price paid for gas: $3.55/gal
Other associated costs: $5 bridge toll
Cost of one trip to the Apple store:
Drive time: ~30min each way = 1hr = $65
Waiting time: 1hr = $65
Time spent arguing with the "Genius": average 30min: $32.50
Fuel cost: 27 * 2 / 23 = 2.348gal * 3.55/gal = $8.34
Bridge toll: $5
-----
Total: $175.84
How many times will I need to pester them? You think 10 sounds like a fair number? We'll go with 10, I think it sounds fair. Total cost of pestering, then, is $1758.40, plus another trip to pick it up in 2 weeks, making the total cost to me $1934.24.
Which part? The not having time to drive an hour round-trip and wait at least an hour for my appointment because the Apple store near me never keeps them? Several times, I might add, since you seem to imply I have to pester them which, I'll also add, is certainly a sign of the great customer service you insist they have. Okay, I'll drop the sarcasm now. Or did you mean the not being able to go 1-2 weeks without the machine?
Or, what of the fact that the failure occurred whilst in the midst of an inter-state move? Add to that, I don't know where (or if) there's an Apple store near my new home; I haven't exactly had time to look for one yet, as I'm still making weekly trips back and forth, continuing to move the rest of my belongings.
I don't just work from home, I run a business. I don't keep office hours, I meet with clients when they want to meet and work for them when they need work done. If you worked my schedule, you wouldn't have time for the Apple store, either.
In the time it takes me to write one of my longer posts, by the way, I wouldn't be half way to the Apple store from my old apartment.
That's why you need to have documented that you were Pestering BEFORE your Warranty expired!
And when my 2016 MacBook Pro has a failure in 2018, that documentation probably doesn't exist. Think for a moment, won't you? Or are you implying that I should have faked an issue during the warranty period in order to scam Apple later on?
How about we take what he wants re: China with a grain of salt because the company he's the CEO of does a lot of manufacturing there and, of course, he doesn't want tariffs as those affect his bottom line?
There are two sides, just not the two you think were being discussed: the inside and the outside. Those inside the government should compromise and cooperate with those outside the government, lest they not be re-elected or, worse (for them) removed from office.
Well, if my F key starts doubling up again (it did it for a week) I'll do that. Some of us actually work for a living, though, and don't have time to pester Apple for months until they cave in, then go entirely without the machine for 1-2 weeks for the repair. And yes, that's how long that repair takes because they have to send it out.
Oh, and out of warranty it's a $750 repair. What did I say elsewhere in the discussion about replacing a Mercedes with a Fiat because you can do so for less than the cost of repairing the Mercedes and the Fiat will keep running if it gets a little dirty? Oh, yeah, it makes sense to do it, that's what I was saying...
Slashdot Mirror
Apple is wonderful at product testing, they just suck at using the resulting data to improve their products. Now we have documented proof of this.
So sad, how far they've fallen. One wonders how long it will take their money to catch up... or if they might correct course before that happens.
Your one data point qualifies as "rarely"...
My point is that when you go to a store, it's usually not a problem. That's kind of my point... When I have gone to an Apple store, my experience has been vastly (and consistently) different, so you are categorically wrong on that point.
Hating on Apple? My man, I probably own more Apple products than you've ever seen in one place.
Very few people bought that $999 iPhone, many more have bought the $650 and $750 Galaxy phones, though. Many more than have bought iPhones at any price point, in fact. Care to try again?
Indeed, and with 15% of the mobile market, Apple's lever just ain't that big.
Well, then I guess it's a good thing there's Android, eh? Tell me about Apple's leverage, again?
Oh, having spare computers to fall back on isn't an issue for me, either; but it is for many, so I'm considering that when I speak. Hell, I'm in the middle of moving still and I'm finding working computers I forgot I even still had.
That doesn't negate the fact that not everyone's experience with Apple is as rosy as yours. It sounds like you live near a competently-staffed store; be thankful for that.
Actually, if the tariffs applied equally to everyone, which they likely would, it's an advantage for nobody. It would be a 20% increase across the board and people who would buy an iPhone will still buy an iPhone; nobody is switching from iOS to Android, let alone from flagship phone models to bottom of the barrel, over $160.
And, before you point out that 20% of $1000 is $200, realize that 20% of $200 is $40 and you have to account for that. The price difference between the $1000 phone and the $200 phone is $800; between the $1200 phone and the $240 phone is $960, a $160 relative increase.
Amortized over the two year typical life of a smartphone (though I keep hearing that iPhones last longer, I rarely see older models out there so we'll go with two years), that's less than $7/mo. Not enough to make anyone jump ship, especially when they'd have to re-buy all of their apps.
So, please, tell me again, how stupid was what I typed?
If we're being honest, malware that deletes my data would be the best case, as I'd just restore from a recent backup and be on my merry way, with maybe 5 hours of downtime. Something co-opting my CPU to mine cryptocurrency, though, well... that has a real cost, not only in additional electricity used for the mining activity, but also additional electricity used to cool the room that is now getting hotter as a result of that activity. Now that has a real impact on me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
In fact, it's probably costing the victims more than the assholes who profit from it are making; all parties involved would literally be better off if we were talking about armed robbery, literally stealing cash from wallets and cash registers. Law enforcement and incarceration costs notwithstanding, that's a zero-sum game, while this type of malware is a pure drain on society, much like when someone smashes a car window to steal a $200 stereo they're only gonna be able to get $20 for. Now someone has to pay hundreds to cover someone else's $20 gain -- and that's the case with this type of malware, where the cost to the victim is several times the amount gained by the criminal.
I never said I had a problem. That's a great write up, though, for the kind of people who pay Geek Squad and the like way too much money, if you can think of a place you can post it where someone with so little tech savvy might actually read it.
Otherwise, I'm sorry to say you wasted your time; even if I did have a PC that was just limping along, I wouldn't get hit with something like this in the first place, so it really wouldn't matter. Please, though, try not to hurt yourself too badly when you fall off that high horse.
Yes, since it's entirely impossible for him to not listen to either Cook or Cheng, that's entirely what I meant. Good on you for putting that together.</sarc>
Seriously, think about the words you just fucking typed, there. Do you think Cheng would want tariffs? Or do you think that neither Cheng nor Cook want the tariffs, so listening to one is, for all intents and purposes, the same as listening to the other? Where's your head at and how do you deal with the smell?
Computers crap out just outside of warranty all the time! It's especially prevalent with laptops and no, you can't get it replaced for free if it happens outside of warranty. Even in warranty, good luck fighting with the OEM.
Idle CPU, like 'free memory' is a waste of your computer.
And processing things like SETI@Home and Folding@Home on a general purpose CPU when there are much more efficient dedicated chips for those purposes is a waste of electricity. Hell, in the summer, it's even worse in warmer climates, as the extra heat means the air conditioning will run longer, wasting even more electricity. See, it's not so cut and dry when you consider other factors.
Computers that overheat when used are faulty (maybe dirty/dusty), but need maintenance or something fixed.
That doesn't mean they aren't out there. Trust me when I say plenty of them are out there.
Because CPU defects never happen. Certainly, no marginal CPU has ever been shipped, that was fine under moderate load but shit the bed when pushed to the point that it might thermal throttle. No, you're right, that's unheard of.
Things that cause you to lose your data and/or your computer have to be the worse.
And when your CPU or GPU overheats and shits out because it's being stressed beyond the limits of the cooling system you cheaped out on because you were only putting together a Facebook machine and didn't need it to be able to handle heavy loads? You don't think that qualifies?
I think it does.
Sorry for the double reply, but it strikes me that I should, perhaps, perform a financial analysis of the "pester Apple" approach so it makes sense to you why it's not viable. I'll use my lowest billable rate, to give your method the best chance of success:
Billable rate: $65/hr
Distance to Apple store (one way): 27 miles
Parking for Apple store: $2/hr
Fuel efficiency of my vehicle: 23MPG
Average price paid for gas: $3.55/gal
Other associated costs: $5 bridge toll
Cost of one trip to the Apple store:
Drive time: ~30min each way = 1hr = $65
Waiting time: 1hr = $65
Time spent arguing with the "Genius": average 30min: $32.50
Fuel cost: 27 * 2 / 23 = 2.348gal * 3.55/gal = $8.34
Bridge toll: $5
-----
Total: $175.84
How many times will I need to pester them? You think 10 sounds like a fair number? We'll go with 10, I think it sounds fair. Total cost of pestering, then, is $1758.40, plus another trip to pick it up in 2 weeks, making the total cost to me $1934.24.
That's more than I paid for this piece of shit.
That's a BS excuse, and you know it.
Which part? The not having time to drive an hour round-trip and wait at least an hour for my appointment because the Apple store near me never keeps them? Several times, I might add, since you seem to imply I have to pester them which, I'll also add, is certainly a sign of the great customer service you insist they have. Okay, I'll drop the sarcasm now. Or did you mean the not being able to go 1-2 weeks without the machine?
Or, what of the fact that the failure occurred whilst in the midst of an inter-state move? Add to that, I don't know where (or if) there's an Apple store near my new home; I haven't exactly had time to look for one yet, as I'm still making weekly trips back and forth, continuing to move the rest of my belongings.
I don't just work from home, I run a business. I don't keep office hours, I meet with clients when they want to meet and work for them when they need work done. If you worked my schedule, you wouldn't have time for the Apple store, either.
In the time it takes me to write one of my longer posts, by the way, I wouldn't be half way to the Apple store from my old apartment.
That's why you need to have documented that you were Pestering BEFORE your Warranty expired!
And when my 2016 MacBook Pro has a failure in 2018, that documentation probably doesn't exist. Think for a moment, won't you? Or are you implying that I should have faked an issue during the warranty period in order to scam Apple later on?
How about we take what he wants re: China with a grain of salt because the company he's the CEO of does a lot of manufacturing there and, of course, he doesn't want tariffs as those affect his bottom line?
There are two sides, just not the two you think were being discussed: the inside and the outside. Those inside the government should compromise and cooperate with those outside the government, lest they not be re-elected or, worse (for them) removed from office.
I think you mean external content in email is a fail, because what you describe is a problem with external content and not HTML.
Well, if my F key starts doubling up again (it did it for a week) I'll do that. Some of us actually work for a living, though, and don't have time to pester Apple for months until they cave in, then go entirely without the machine for 1-2 weeks for the repair. And yes, that's how long that repair takes because they have to send it out.
Oh, and out of warranty it's a $750 repair. What did I say elsewhere in the discussion about replacing a Mercedes with a Fiat because you can do so for less than the cost of repairing the Mercedes and the Fiat will keep running if it gets a little dirty? Oh, yeah, it makes sense to do it, that's what I was saying...
Late 2016, though the early 2017 models are affected as well. The v2 keyboard is only on the late 2017 models.
Unfortunately, the Intarwebs have a way of amplifying negativity...
Yes they do, which is why I assumed this was less of a problem than it actually is and bought one of the affected machines. Live and learn, I guess.
Would you put a late 2017 MacBook Pro with a v2 in it on the line? I might take that action.