I immediately install KDE4 (at least the core) as soon as I finish installing Ubuntu. I am also exercising my choice to not use Unity, just without needing to change the whole distro.
And I am not exactly saying they are zealots, but that they sound like that because of the negative context surrounding most comments promoting Mint.
I have trouble taking Mint seriously. I only hear about it when people complains about Unity.
No, seriously, every single time I hear about Mint is because there's some controversial thing about Ubuntu and a lot of guys come in saying "I moved to Mint years ago because I am tired of $NEWS_TOPIC". At times there are also Mint comments even if the news about Ubuntu are good (I am sure I saw a "I moved to Mint..." routine on a few of the Steam for Linux news reports in Ubuntu-related news sites).
I am skeptic about how valid Distrowatch's score is. Until I find a real happy user as opposed to someone complaining about Canonical in every Ubuntu-related news, it just sounds like haters got busy inflating scores (wouldn't be the first time something of the sort happens). Everyone I know uses the same usual subjects, and while anecdote is not proof, I've met a sizable amount of Linux users from being a developer. Not even a single issue reported by Mint users.
So, is there someone using Mint for any reason that is not spiting Canonical? I'd like to know, just to make sure I receive information not coming from people giving the impression of being zealots. They seriously need some PR as opposed to just say bad things about the competition.
It's like that commenter above that asked about what made Mint good and didn't get a single answer other than "it's not Ubuntu".
Many birds can be "potty trained" like dogs and cats, but people usually doesn't have the same patience than with mammals when it comes to training avian pets, for some reason.
Actually, I don't eat poultry. I happen to be a bird enthusiast since I was a little kid, used to raise chicks and that kind of thing. For me birds are like cats for everyone else. (I also happen to hate cats, their "I own my owner" attitude kills any semblance of cuteness they might have).
But chickens are kind of cute, why would you punch a chicken without the chicken doing something evil to you, like kidnapping your children or pecking you in the eye? I'd rather hug them.
What I am reading there is that the current GL code will be updated to work with GL2ES...so? that's pretty much a good thing. You realize he's talking about the compositor, right? The part that already uses GL? To put it bluntly, that has nothing to do with my post. I am talking about the feature to disable the COMPOSITOR. The compositor, of course, will require GL, and already does. The good thing about KDE is that you can disable the compositor at will.
I follow his blog and he never mentioned removing non-composited mode.
Because it's a "major" desktop that doesn't ask for GL, so I think it's relevant to mention here. Only two of the major players require GL, and that makes the article pretty much invalid.
The "live" enable/disable is incredibly handy too. I can be using compositing to manage a lot of codedev/image editing/music editing/reference windows and disable it when I am trying out the results of that code, automagically, so I get full unhindered FPS in whatever I am making without losing the advantages of compositing. I think it's useful enough to warrant mention, and just requires 3-4 clicks to setup, doesn't even require to type.
I humbly disagree. I found happiness when I moved to Ubuntu (from Gentoo, but that's irrelevant) You see, the defaults might suck for power users, but it not only has all the debian goodness inside, it also has a really good amount of up-to-date software in PPAs, and it's favored by many developers who release closed-source-free-software. The 2D CAD suite I use only has binary Ubuntu packages, for example. (rest is w32/64 and mac). And hell, Steam will come to Ubuntu, more reason for me, a gamedev (in my free time) to stay tuned.
Only power users will really need (and know how to) replace things. Nothing prevents you from using Fluxbox, IceWM, FVWM, Awesome...all of them are available in the repos, that are enabled by default, and just a few clicks away. The Software Center is surprisingly decent too. Consider that if people is able to do such things with their smartphones, they can do it with Ubuntu too. Average Joes aren't that stupid, they just have a horrible lack of will to learn nerdy things, and Ubuntu precisely helps to address that. Unity is horrible for, in my case, developing software, but I see how it works for somebody not willing to learn. The eyecandy makes it look less nerdy for the average user, and the software center makes it familiar for those who search the iOS/Android shop for tools, which is a lot of people, nowadays.
The rest of us...are free to do our thing, no one is stopping us, and that's why I think you are being needlessly harsh. If you use another distro because you like the defaults better, more power to you, it's a bit of time you'll save during setup, but it doesn't make Ubuntu really doomed to irrelevance at all.
But precisely its strong point is what invalidates TFA. I don't love KDE for failures like akonadi or nepomuk, but because it has the best mainstream window manager out of the niche alternatives like Ratpoison or Awesome. It's compliant with modern standards, has automatic window rules set from a nice, handy GUI, has per-window keybindings, and is very fast on mediocre hardware like mine. It allows to maintain complex layouts without effort and without being limited by a tiled system (although that ALSO exists in Kwin, if that's your thing!). If I need the compositing features I turn them on, if I need speed I turn compositing off, it's as simple as that, all your windows remain the same, you don't need to log out. You can even automate it with windows rules (3 clicks, literally). All your settings are kept, from theming to effects to thumbnailing or whatever. So, because of that, I think kwin is pretty much worth mentioning in this news story. Sorry if you don't like, but it IS relevant to this discussion.
You can see most of the comments here neglect to tell about that kwin feature, apparently slashdot as a whole is biased against KDE as well. I can kind of understand because of things like akonadi and activities...., but the window manager is way too good to be ignored, and someone should show a minimum of praise for a work well done. (and remember kids, you can use kwin without all of kde4)
Too many comments forget Kwin. Which kind of shows nobody really uses KDE4, apparently, because it's a killer feature nobody knows about: It doesn't require GL and can enable and disable it on the fly without losing anything you are doing at the time. Even with automated rules!
And remember you can add window rules to disable compositing dynamically, for example when launching a game or other GL-intensive tool. It's the only (linux) desktop that allows that.
Let's keep people educated. KDE 4.x (Kwin) doesn't require GL either, it's completely optional and can be disabled, "live", via a keyboard shortcut or setting an automatic window property (like launching a game > disable compositing".
It's important that people knows KDE doesn't require GL to run, so they: A) Keep maintaining it. B) Others see it as an example of how to do things right.
Uhmm, I just checked and it's armv7, so it should work. There is enough space in the internal partition, and other browsers run properly. It just refuses to install. I mean the device is cheap but not THAT cheap...
Huhmm? Must be a recent change, I am pretty sure I heard the opposite from Planet Mozilla's posts about FF for Android, though, unfortunately my RSS reader doesn't keep many posts, I'll have to dig to find the source. Also the fact that it refuses to install in my 2.2 tablet, which never refused any other piece of software marked for 2.2. It can run Chrome and Opera, Dolphin too, Firefox is the only one that doesn't, but should.
Paid is not better. Paid is usually only more expensive unless there's no alternative at all. Geez, I can't wait for the PRO version of adblock or noscript, it'll be hilarious.
This. Requiring 2.3 instead of 2.2 like a lot of other apps is...weird, to say the least. And since their browser won't run in my cheap android device, I can't care less about it.
I don't know if I want my ISP knowing I use TOR. Despite what good it might be, something commonly associated with pedophiles and criminals is not something I want to be seen using, even less linked to my real name and data.
Slashdot Mirror
No, I am promoting that you can easily pick another DE, I just gave my personal usage as example.
I immediately install KDE4 (at least the core) as soon as I finish installing Ubuntu. I am also exercising my choice to not use Unity, just without needing to change the whole distro.
And I am not exactly saying they are zealots, but that they sound like that because of the negative context surrounding most comments promoting Mint.
Also, isn't Cinnamon always composited (AKA 3D-accelerated)?
I have trouble taking Mint seriously. I only hear about it when people complains about Unity.
No, seriously, every single time I hear about Mint is because there's some controversial thing about Ubuntu and a lot of guys come in saying "I moved to Mint years ago because I am tired of $NEWS_TOPIC". At times there are also Mint comments even if the news about Ubuntu are good (I am sure I saw a "I moved to Mint..." routine on a few of the Steam for Linux news reports in Ubuntu-related news sites).
I am skeptic about how valid Distrowatch's score is. Until I find a real happy user as opposed to someone complaining about Canonical in every Ubuntu-related news, it just sounds like haters got busy inflating scores (wouldn't be the first time something of the sort happens). Everyone I know uses the same usual subjects, and while anecdote is not proof, I've met a sizable amount of Linux users from being a developer. Not even a single issue reported by Mint users.
So, is there someone using Mint for any reason that is not spiting Canonical? I'd like to know, just to make sure I receive information not coming from people giving the impression of being zealots. They seriously need some PR as opposed to just say bad things about the competition.
It's like that commenter above that asked about what made Mint good and didn't get a single answer other than "it's not Ubuntu".
On defense of 3D (on sane desktops that allow to turn it off on demand, like KDE+kwin), I have found the taskbar thumbnails and the "exposé"/present windows effect to be extremely useful for my workflow. I just turn it off when I need full FPS.
I use no other effects, except transparency (useful when drawing/spriting), so I have no delays in my actions.
About my usage, I have like 4 windows permanently opened, one big window and 3 windows at the side (usually VLC, Pidgin and Konsole), and I switch between them using either mouse or keyboard shortcuts (easy to set up in KDE) to switch without lifting my hands from the keyboard (like when coding). It's all automatically managed so I never need to move windows around or resize them to fit, everything is just direct, quick and respecting my games' FPS unlike the alternatives, but without requiring mad hacks like FVWM (my previous desktop).
(All in all, Xorg + KDE services/apps are eating a bit above 200mb of RAM. So I can't see why people complains about KDE being too heavy...Gnome 3 uses more in my experience and you can't suspend compositing so every OpenGL game/app you write or use will be laggy)
Many birds can be "potty trained" like dogs and cats, but people usually doesn't have the same patience than with mammals when it comes to training avian pets, for some reason.
Actually, I don't eat poultry. I happen to be a bird enthusiast since I was a little kid, used to raise chicks and that kind of thing. For me birds are like cats for everyone else. (I also happen to hate cats, their "I own my owner" attitude kills any semblance of cuteness they might have).
But chickens are kind of cute, why would you punch a chicken without the chicken doing something evil to you, like kidnapping your children or pecking you in the eye? I'd rather hug them.
What I am reading there is that the current GL code will be updated to work with GL2ES...so? that's pretty much a good thing. You realize he's talking about the compositor, right? The part that already uses GL?
To put it bluntly, that has nothing to do with my post. I am talking about the feature to disable the COMPOSITOR. The compositor, of course, will require GL, and already does. The good thing about KDE is that you can disable the compositor at will.
I follow his blog and he never mentioned removing non-composited mode.
Because it's a "major" desktop that doesn't ask for GL, so I think it's relevant to mention here. Only two of the major players require GL, and that makes the article pretty much invalid.
The "live" enable/disable is incredibly handy too. I can be using compositing to manage a lot of codedev/image editing/music editing/reference windows and disable it when I am trying out the results of that code, automagically, so I get full unhindered FPS in whatever I am making without losing the advantages of compositing. I think it's useful enough to warrant mention, and just requires 3-4 clicks to setup, doesn't even require to type.
I humbly disagree. I found happiness when I moved to Ubuntu (from Gentoo, but that's irrelevant)
You see, the defaults might suck for power users, but it not only has all the debian goodness inside, it also has a really good amount of up-to-date software in PPAs, and it's favored by many developers who release closed-source-free-software. The 2D CAD suite I use only has binary Ubuntu packages, for example. (rest is w32/64 and mac).
And hell, Steam will come to Ubuntu, more reason for me, a gamedev (in my free time) to stay tuned.
Only power users will really need (and know how to) replace things. Nothing prevents you from using Fluxbox, IceWM, FVWM, Awesome...all of them are available in the repos, that are enabled by default, and just a few clicks away. The Software Center is surprisingly decent too.
Consider that if people is able to do such things with their smartphones, they can do it with Ubuntu too. Average Joes aren't that stupid, they just have a horrible lack of will to learn nerdy things, and Ubuntu precisely helps to address that. Unity is horrible for, in my case, developing software, but I see how it works for somebody not willing to learn. The eyecandy makes it look less nerdy for the average user, and the software center makes it familiar for those who search the iOS/Android shop for tools, which is a lot of people, nowadays.
The rest of us...are free to do our thing, no one is stopping us, and that's why I think you are being needlessly harsh. If you use another distro because you like the defaults better, more power to you, it's a bit of time you'll save during setup, but it doesn't make Ubuntu really doomed to irrelevance at all.
But precisely its strong point is what invalidates TFA. I don't love KDE for failures like akonadi or nepomuk, but because it has the best mainstream window manager out of the niche alternatives like Ratpoison or Awesome. It's compliant with modern standards, has automatic window rules set from a nice, handy GUI, has per-window keybindings, and is very fast on mediocre hardware like mine. It allows to maintain complex layouts without effort and without being limited by a tiled system (although that ALSO exists in Kwin, if that's your thing!).
If I need the compositing features I turn them on, if I need speed I turn compositing off, it's as simple as that, all your windows remain the same, you don't need to log out. You can even automate it with windows rules (3 clicks, literally). All your settings are kept, from theming to effects to thumbnailing or whatever.
So, because of that, I think kwin is pretty much worth mentioning in this news story. Sorry if you don't like, but it IS relevant to this discussion.
You can see most of the comments here neglect to tell about that kwin feature, apparently slashdot as a whole is biased against KDE as well. I can kind of understand because of things like akonadi and activities...., but the window manager is way too good to be ignored, and someone should show a minimum of praise for a work well done. (and remember kids, you can use kwin without all of kde4)
Too many comments forget Kwin. Which kind of shows nobody really uses KDE4, apparently, because it's a killer feature nobody knows about: It doesn't require GL and can enable and disable it on the fly without losing anything you are doing at the time. Even with automated rules!
And remember you can add window rules to disable compositing dynamically, for example when launching a game or other GL-intensive tool. It's the only (linux) desktop that allows that.
Let's keep people educated. KDE 4.x (Kwin) doesn't require GL either, it's completely optional and can be disabled, "live", via a keyboard shortcut or setting an automatic window property (like launching a game > disable compositing".
It's important that people knows KDE doesn't require GL to run, so they:
A) Keep maintaining it.
B) Others see it as an example of how to do things right.
Kwin can work without OpenGL and it's damn snappy. Not everything is gnome.
Uh-oh. They are Japanese!
I absolutely adore how you actually got the alternatives in some sort of logical order.
Uhmm, I just checked and it's armv7, so it should work. There is enough space in the internal partition, and other browsers run properly. It just refuses to install.
I mean the device is cheap but not THAT cheap...
Huhmm? Must be a recent change, I am pretty sure I heard the opposite from Planet Mozilla's posts about FF for Android, though, unfortunately my RSS reader doesn't keep many posts, I'll have to dig to find the source.
Also the fact that it refuses to install in my 2.2 tablet, which never refused any other piece of software marked for 2.2. It can run Chrome and Opera, Dolphin too, Firefox is the only one that doesn't, but should.
Paid is not better. Paid is usually only more expensive unless there's no alternative at all.
Geez, I can't wait for the PRO version of adblock or noscript, it'll be hilarious.
That's my point exactly. If every other can, why not Firefox?
This.
Requiring 2.3 instead of 2.2 like a lot of other apps is...weird, to say the least. And since their browser won't run in my cheap android device, I can't care less about it.
I don't know if I want my ISP knowing I use TOR. Despite what good it might be, something commonly associated with pedophiles and criminals is not something I want to be seen using, even less linked to my real name and data.
No, but it should.