I can't tell much about QT versus wxWidgets since I haven't coded a full program in QT. I think they are quite equal for coding, one might be better here, the other there. But wxWidgets has so far two other important advantages:
- the wxWindows license is better suited for business since it is a LGPL with a BinaryException (important for commercial applications). - there is a fully working sample application at wyoGuide, while so far nobody contributed code for QT even if I've ask Trolltech, Dan Kegel, one of the lead KDE developers and others.
My personal impression is wxWidgets is well suited for cross-platform development, so you can't be wrong with it.
It's true, if you want to realize a vision you also have to do the work. It's almost impossible to transfer visions to other people, so Mark should have at least participated in the work himself.
Well I understand that in 2003 cross-platform development wasn't possible as it is today. So I think Mark Shuttleworth should try again but start with wyoGuide (http://wyoguide.sf.net/) as it's base. wyoGuide also uses wxWidgets as does Chandler. I'm quite sure the outcome would be completely different then it was in 2003. The success doesn't only depend on the people in the project but also on the tools these people can use.
Besides wyoGuide can be used for any cross-platform development project.
What does have more impact on the success of Linux, the "Linux management study" or the "Linux desktop survey"? Which of these two areas are more important and should be taken more care of?
would mean quite a lot of freedom but the EFF doesn't even answer my mail. Doesn't EFF work for the freedom or doesn't EFF understand what it means? What shall I do so this freedom sinks into their minds or what can I do to make this future become true?
A few years ago we have standardized on Java on the client workstations but it simply doesn't work. Whenever an application is converted to Java helpdesk tickets soar up in the sky. Not because of technical reasons, there are almost never any bugs involve. No mostly because users doesn't seem to be happy with Java applications since they don't feel what the users are used to. Even with trying to implement as much of the users complains as possible. Sure the complains slowly die down but not to the level as for none-Java applications.
We are now considering to replace Java with AJAX for the simpler DB oriented applications and C++ for the complex applications, hoping to halve the helpdesk tickets count in the long run. It seems C++ together with the wxWidgets framework produces produces enough good applications which users are happy with.
Unfortunately you didn't say which platform you use so I assum it's Windows else on Linux you certainly would use CVS. On Windows you could use CVSNT (http://www.cvsnt.org/wiki/).
O. Wyss
Re:Development of GTK+
on
Why Use GTK+?
·
· Score: 0
I have no idea, ask Slashdot.
Anyway, as a troll I'm leaving Slashdot for a news site without unfair moderation.
O. Wyss
but not mine because ...
on
Why Use GTK+?
·
· Score: 1
the free VC++ distribution is by far not the full VC++ distribution. It's enough for compiling but not for debugging.
Besides MFC is not cross-platform and even on Windows you are IMO better off with wxWidgets.
Re:Distribution on Windows
on
Why Use GTK+?
·
· Score: 1
I cannot speak for other developers or other projects but you can send your complains to the wyoguide-users mailing list and I'll see if I can forward any to the appropriate developer. I can't guaranty anything but most developers I know are rather responsive.
Also you can try out any of my applications of wyoGuide (http://wyoguide.sf.net/) and see if you detect any complains there. I appreciate any feedback, positive or negative, as long as it gives me hints how to improve my software. Please send them to the wyoguide-users mailing list, not everybody reading here might be interested.
Cocoa port for the Mac
on
Why Use GTK+?
·
· Score: 1
I just want to mentioned that there's a Cocoa port in wxWidgets for the Mac albeit I don't know its current state. It probably isn't much work to do the same for Linux if Apple really releases it's runtime. That means any wxWidgets application which currently can be build either with GTK or Motif on Linux will build on Cocoa as soon as it's available. Nice isn't it?
I agree with many of your objections but GTK+ is still useful for all the underlying technologies. As I said here (http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=17 2263&cid=14343999) serious developers don't use plain GTK+ but without it, these wrappers wouldn't be possible. There wouldn't be Pango or ATK etc. if GTK+ wouldn't exists.
About your UI rants there is a solution I explained here (http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=17 2263&cid=14343909) but it needs some time until all the enthusiast and fans recognize its value. So instead of just complaining help improve it so we all have something better in the future.
O. Wyss
Re:Cross-platform GUI RAD (for GTK+, etc): wxDesig
on
Why Use GTK+?
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
True, wxDesigner is an alternative on Linux I haven't thought of. Thanks:-)
Development of GTK+
on
Why Use GTK+?
·
· Score: -1, Troll
These days any serious developer doesn't use plain GTK+ anymore. If you want to get productive on Linux you either use gtkmm (http://www.gtkmm.org/) or wxWidgets (http://www.wxwidgets.org/), both based on GTK+. If you also develop for Windows you're better off with wxWidgets.
Re:Distribution on Windows
on
Why Use GTK+?
·
· Score: 0, Offtopic
For a user it's simple, just look at some screen shots. On Windows you'll immediately recognize a GTK+ application while you almost can't figure out what's wxWidgets or what's MFC. I've never compared QT but think it's about the same as wxWidgets.
For the developers it's not that easy since it depends on what features you need. E.g. I'm quite sure if you need drag&drop between any application you're better off with wxWidgets or QT. Choosing between wxWidgets (cheaper) or QT (better supported) should you do yourself. My personal preferences can be found here http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=172 263&cid=14343909.
Slashdot Mirror
Does nobody know that IBM also uses the Dojo-Toolkit, see http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/191 87.wss?
Both do a lot for OpenSource but not with the same intention. This might shed some light on their images and possibly have some adjusting.
O. Wyss
I can't tell much about QT versus wxWidgets since I haven't coded a full program in QT. I think they are quite equal for coding, one might be better here, the other there. But wxWidgets has so far two other important advantages:
- the wxWindows license is better suited for business since it is a LGPL with a BinaryException (important for commercial applications).
- there is a fully working sample application at wyoGuide, while so far nobody contributed code for QT even if I've ask Trolltech, Dan Kegel, one of the lead KDE developers and others.
My personal impression is wxWidgets is well suited for cross-platform development, so you can't be wrong with it.
O. Wyss
It's true, if you want to realize a vision you also have to do the work. It's almost impossible to transfer visions to other people, so Mark should have at least participated in the work himself.
I've myself a vision
http://wyoguide.sf.net/papers/Cross-platform.html
let's see how far I come.
O. Wyss
Well I understand that in 2003 cross-platform development wasn't possible as it is today. So I think Mark Shuttleworth should try again but start with wyoGuide (http://wyoguide.sf.net/) as it's base. wyoGuide also uses wxWidgets as does Chandler. I'm quite sure the outcome would be completely different then it was in 2003. The success doesn't only depend on the people in the project but also on the tools these people can use.
Besides wyoGuide can be used for any cross-platform development project.
- Btw, anyone want a GMail account?
Yes, reach me via http://wyoguide.sf.net/
O. Wyss
I wonder if Google hasn't heard of the term "cross-platform" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-platform). I think Google should delve once into this "http://wyoguide.sf.net/papers/Cross-platform.html ".
What does have more impact on the success of Linux, the "Linux management study" or the "Linux desktop survey"? Which of these two areas are more important and should be taken more care of?
O. Wyss
I wonder if the GnuCash developers know that even Linux users wish for none-free cash application, see
OSDL: Desktop Linux Client SurveyNovell: Cool-Solutions website
LinuxQuestions.org: "What programs would you like to see ported to Linux"
and would like to know what they consider to do against.
O. Wyss
Whenever I hear or read something from the EFF it sounds like "don't", "no", etc but never "do" or "yes". I thought this here
http://wyoguide.sf.net/papers/Cross-platform.html
would mean quite a lot of freedom but the EFF doesn't even answer my mail. Doesn't EFF work for the freedom or doesn't EFF understand what it means? What shall I do so this freedom sinks into their minds or what can I do to make this future become true?
O. Wyss
A few years ago we have standardized on Java on the client workstations but it simply doesn't work. Whenever an application is converted to Java helpdesk tickets soar up in the sky. Not because of technical reasons, there are almost never any bugs involve. No mostly because users doesn't seem to be happy with Java applications since they don't feel what the users are used to. Even with trying to implement as much of the users complains as possible. Sure the complains slowly die down but not to the level as for none-Java applications.
We are now considering to replace Java with AJAX for the simpler DB oriented applications and C++ for the complex applications, hoping to halve the helpdesk tickets count in the long run. It seems C++ together with the wxWidgets framework produces produces enough good applications which users are happy with.
Not a bad idea, hopefully it will work.
O. Wyss
We humans have it, animals also, so why not computers? Lets the computers have the flu.
The computer liberation front!
True Freshmeat doesn't have many projects, still look at
e ction=projects
o n=projects
http://freshmeat.net/search/?q=video+conference&s
or
http://freshmeat.net/search/?q=conferencing§i
O. Wyss
Unfortunately you didn't say which platform you use so I assum it's Windows else on Linux you certainly would use CVS. On Windows you could use CVSNT (http://www.cvsnt.org/wiki/).
O. Wyss
I have no idea, ask Slashdot.
Anyway, as a troll I'm leaving Slashdot for a news site without unfair moderation.
O. Wyss
the free VC++ distribution is by far not the full VC++ distribution. It's enough for compiling but not for debugging.
2 263&cid=14343999
Besides MFC is not cross-platform and even on Windows you are IMO better off with wxWidgets.
see also http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=17
O. Wyss
Yes of course, see http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=172 263&cid=14343999
O. Wyss
I cannot speak for other developers or other projects but you can send your complains to the wyoguide-users mailing list and I'll see if I can forward any to the appropriate developer. I can't guaranty anything but most developers I know are rather responsive.
2 263&cid=14343909
Also you can try out any of my applications of wyoGuide (http://wyoguide.sf.net/) and see if you detect any complains there. I appreciate any feedback, positive or negative, as long as it gives me hints how to improve my software. Please send them to the wyoguide-users mailing list, not everybody reading here might be interested.
see also http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=17
O. Wyss
Sure if you're happy, everything is fine. Unfortunately not everybody thinks like you and from the complains it seems to be the vast majority.
Some differences might be caused by the fact that a GTK+-based GUI is likely to be based on the GNOME HIG.
Yes that's the big problem, for cross-platform application you should definitely follow cross-platform guidelines. And that's exactly what I've tried to explain here http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=172 263&cid=14343909
O. Wyss
I just want to mentioned that there's a Cocoa port in wxWidgets for the Mac albeit I don't know its current state. It probably isn't much work to do the same for Linux if Apple really releases it's runtime. That means any wxWidgets application which currently can be build either with GTK or Motif on Linux will build on Cocoa as soon as it's available. Nice isn't it?
O. Wyss
I agree with many of your objections but GTK+ is still useful for all the underlying technologies. As I said here (http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=17 2263&cid=14343999) serious developers don't use plain GTK+ but without it, these wrappers wouldn't be possible. There wouldn't be Pango or ATK etc. if GTK+ wouldn't exists.
7 2263&cid=14343909) but it needs some time until all the enthusiast and fans recognize its value. So instead of just complaining help improve it so we all have something better in the future.
About your UI rants there is a solution I explained here (http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1
O. Wyss
True, wxDesigner is an alternative on Linux I haven't thought of. Thanks :-)
2 263&cid=14343999
BTW see http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=17
These days any serious developer doesn't use plain GTK+ anymore. If you want to get productive on Linux you either use gtkmm (http://www.gtkmm.org/) or wxWidgets (http://www.wxwidgets.org/), both based on GTK+. If you also develop for Windows you're better off with wxWidgets.
2 263&cid=14343909
see also http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=17
O. Wyss
For a user it's simple, just look at some screen shots. On Windows you'll immediately recognize a GTK+ application while you almost can't figure out what's wxWidgets or what's MFC. I've never compared QT but think it's about the same as wxWidgets.
2 263&cid=14343909.
For the developers it's not that easy since it depends on what features you need. E.g. I'm quite sure if you need drag&drop between any application you're better off with wxWidgets or QT. Choosing between wxWidgets (cheaper) or QT (better supported) should you do yourself. My personal preferences can be found here http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=17
O. Wyss