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GnuCash 1.9.0 Released
Grendel Drago writes "The GnuCash team have released GnuCash 1.9.0.
After literally years of waiting, GnuCash is now a GTK2 application. The current version is unstable, and testers are needed."
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gnucash was by far my toughest install ever on linux.
Finally...software that is a perfect fit for my finances.
A buggy, unstable money management program... BRILLIANT!
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
Who's been waiting? I liked the application the way it is. With something as important as finacial tracking, there's no way I'd want to test it. I don't need a pretty ui to tell me I'm broke.
I've been waiting for this FOREVER. Another alternative for Linux is Moneydance, a java app that apparently spoofs Windows quicken online banking on Macs (or Linux)..
It would be nice for someone to do a mini-review or comparison of the different FOSS or FOSS-friendly financial packages, because frankly, I'm ready to leave Intuit.
Oh, and speaking of which--y'all know that you can file your taxes for free, right? Or at least 70% of Americans can. Down from 100% last year, but still something.
W
-------------------
This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Will this do my taxes?
Once it works for him, it certainly works for all of us.
Since it is slashdotted, here are some excerpts from the site:
The GnuCash development team proudly announces GnuCash 1.9.0 aka "We're gonna make it!", the first of several unstable 1.9.x releases of the GnuCash Open Source Accounting Software which will eventually lead to the stable version 2.0.0. This release is the very first of the gtk2-based GnuCash series, and is intended for developers and adventurous testers who want to help tracking down all those bugs that are still in there.
What's New in GnuCash 1.9.0?
o Welcome to GnuCash 1.9.0 aka "We're gonna make it!" the first of several unstable releases of the GnuCash Open Source Accounting Software which will eventually lead to the stable version 2.0.0. This release is the very first of the gtk2-based GnuCash series and is intended for developers and adventurous testers who want to help tracking down bugs.
o WARNING WARNING WARNING - Make sure you make backups of any files used in testing versions of GnuCash in the 1.9.x series. Although the developers go to great lengths to ensure that no data will be lost we cannot guarentee that your data will not be affected if for some reason GnuCash crashes in testing these releases.
o PLEASE TEST TEST AND TEST SOME MORE any and all features important to you. Then post any bugs you find to bugzilla http://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Gn uCash
o If you have the urge to help beyond testing please get involved in the discussions on the GnuCash mailing lists which you will find at http://www.gnucash.org./ We especially need people to help with updating the documentation as all texts refer currently to the 1.8.x series. Please see http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Development on how to get involved.
o PS I'm not going to list the many features changed or updated in this release because obviously there is so much that has changed.
Caveats
Caveats for testers:
* Any 1.9.x version might crash unexpectedly at any point during runtime. If you test some serious work in a 1.9.x release, make sure you hit "Save" after ever non-trivial workstep.
* Keep in mind that features which are not used in everyday work might crash unexpectedly at all times. This includes but is not limited to: graphical reports, scheduled transaction editor, price editor, financial calculator, OFX/QIF/HBCI import.
* Especially all the new features might crash instantly on testing. This applies in particular to any of the budget-related features. We may always decide to disable such new features for the initial 2.0.0 release, and re-enable them in a later release.
* The documentation is completely outdated. All help texts usually only refer to the 1.8.x series; please expect all descriptions in the help texts to be totally wrong when applied to the upcoming 1.9.x series. Everyone is invited to help improve the documentation; see http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Development on how to get involved.
How can you help?
* Testing: Test it and help us discover all bugs that might show up in there. Please enter each and every bug into bugzilla at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Gn uCash
* Translating: The new release comes with plenty of new translation strings. If you consider contributing a translation, we invite you to test this release already, but please keep in mind that we are not yet in our string freeze phase. Please check http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Translation_Status for updates on this, as we recommend to wait for the string
If we don't fight for ourselves no one will.
Am I the only one who read GnuCrash?
Isn't this what Enron used?
I've been using GNUCash on Linux for awhile, and have wanted to also use it on Windows, as I've found it to be better than Quicken and the like. I looked for a Windows port, but the only thing I found were some messages saying something to the effect of "Wait until it's on GTK2."
With this news, it looks like a port might finally be reachable. This may be the next great OSS app that I can show off to friends and family, and I'll be able to use it on my Windows laptop. Here's to the GNUCash team for all their hard work!
Maybe Bill can finally have his taxes processed on a 'normal' computer now that GnuCash 1.9.0 is out?
3 3
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/01/14182
Where I come from, you're called a motard.
Now, I have nothing bad to say about GnuCash. It's a good program and served me well when I used it. I only mention KMyMoney as an alternative worth considering.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Why I would want a web browser that is able to browse the Internet inside an application that holds all my financial information? Sounds Microsoft Money-ish to me. I'd prefer to keep applications separate so there is less possibility that a malicious website could pull financial information off my computer.
I bought Quicken Deluxe 2006. And, I started entering in a bunch of data. I found a flaw where if you enter data quickly by tabbing through the boxes, it will eliminate the categories you need for reporting taxes..
I spent about 2 hours talking to an Indian guy over chat who barely spoke English who could not help me. He switched me over to a hispanic girl who spoke even less English at me for another 3 hours. Seriously.. both spoke horrible English. About three-fourths of my effort went to trying to communicate with them. Also, they knew shit about Quicken. It was easy to tell I knew more about it than them - just they were there as 'support' for idiots only or something.
Then, I called in the next day and spoke with person after person for another three hours. Each time, I had to duplicate the problem on my end, reinstall Quicken, duplicate the problem again.. and show them how to duplicate it. They duplicated it and still could not tell me how to fix it. They said they will send it to the development team. That was a month ago.. Hopefully they can fix this before tax season.
Whereas, in open source, if there was a problem like this, I could probby get one of the developers to issue a minor quickfix in a matter of days..
Hopefully there's a way to convert all my current data (about 50 hours of entry worth) into GnuCash's format. I'm definitely willing to give it a try..
--- We need more Ron Paul!
GNUCash is a *fantastic* finance tool. I use it every day to keep track of my tech consulting businesse's bank accounts, expenses, liabilities, and so on. It's absolutely great. It's so nice having tools like this that not only gives you equal (or greater) power than it's commercial alternatives, but is free (as in beer) so small and new businesses don't have to pay an arm and a leg to simply track their small business finances!
Horray!! Thank you, GNUCash team!!
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Where I come from it's called a failure
Holy *Crap*. It's a development version, jackass. The whole point is for other developers to try it out and report the problems. Writing accounting related software sucks, and they're improving the situation (or at the least, trying). Cut 'em some slack!
This rating is Unfair ( ) ( ) Fair (*) Funny
Sigh... If only. Modding would be so much more fun.
Hopefully there's a way to convert all my current data (about 50 hours of entry worth) into GnuCash's format. I'm definitely willing to give it a try..
Don't ring support again - another 10 phone calls and you could re-key it...
I think it is some kind of rule that any support hotline may not be manned by people that are native english speakers.
Pretty please?
...and haven't missed GnuCash one bit. As a personal finance manager, GnuCash sucks. Moneydance is easy to use and comes with a decent default account to get a new user started. Moneydance is well worth the minimal price tag if you need to keep track of your personal finances. If I needed to manage a small business I might re-consider GnuCash, but I'm not sure. I might look at other alternatives based on my prior experience with GnuCash.
http://www.moneydance.com/ if you are interested.
In plain English, this means if you know only your little backyard, then there is just US. Otherwise your world may include Germany, and the rest is, of course, US. Now, some people may find this funny. Others might cry. I am just confused. How can they write such code? It should read if Germany
The last time I put numbers like the shown 5 into code was almost three decades ago in a Basic program. I have seen much better GNU software and hope someone removes the word GNU from this project's name.
No offense, but I thought financial planning software should comply with higher standards.
It was about three years ago in February that I decided to switch to BitchBetterHaveMyMoney, and I've never looked back. The application is rock solid. And it keeps track of not some of my money, but all of my money.
Truth be told, their motto is proof: "Through rain, sleet, snow, or dark of night: BitchBetterHaveMyMoney."
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
I'm not saying GnuCash is bad - it's very good at what it does, it's just not doing enough for what I'd want.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Those who never tried building some of the previous GnuCash releases from scratch probably won't appreciate how monumental this is, but this version builds and runs on a stable Debian system without any updated libraries installed.
Previous versions were terribly difficult to build due to dependences on specific versions of rarely-used libraries. As a result, GnuCash was always late getting packaged for Linux distributions, and the delays likewise probably greatly reduced its adoption by users. The situation probably didn't help the development community's growth much, either.
I've used GnuCash for years, though, and I'll be happily beta testing this version (while keeping a copy of my finances in 1.8 at the same time). Great work, and thanks, guys!
Come on... they've just done a major conversion, and now it's testing time. OF COURSE it's going to crash. Why not channel your criticism into more constructive uses of your time and help with the testing?
And that's what they would have to pay me to use it. Call me when Google's new payment service starts to accept it.
I've been into Personal Finance Manager appliction for a while. Just for fun, because now that i actually make money i would like to manage my accounts in a proper way. Unfortunatly i've found that not to be easy at all.
Tried with:
GnuCash
Quicken
and now with MS Money
None of them really do what i want.
GnuCash had double entry accounting which i think is just much to manage for my personal finances. Support to import transaction was incomplete back then (only QIF format worked, and QIF is a PoS). Now it seems that they improved on that but still the double entry system makes me nervous.
Quicken is a buggy, ad invested piece of software. Whenever you click on a "function" you're send to some third party website. Their move to not allow import of QIF for certain types of accounts gave me the rest and i quit.
Money is not as ad invested, but buggy as well. But right know i still kinda like it, except that some general functionalities are missing that i really would like to see in the future.
What's missing in all of these PFM's is that they don't take stupid work away from me, they should help me, not give me more work than necessary.
Example: My Payee information that i download in the transactions of the banks looks like encrypted bullocks to me. There has to be a way to name these things in user friendly way.
The automatic categorization of transaction lacks functionality as well. It should be possible to define rules. Like: i went to Safeway at noon on a weekday -> Lunch Category, otherwise Groceries
Furthermore i like to have the whole thing setup as a service on my computer, it wouldn't take too much... The service would then automatically log into my bank accounts everyday and download latest transactions. Maybe even sent me an e-mail or text message that i should maybe not use credit card XYZ anymore, because i'm about to bounce the credit limit.
There is more and i just wish i could see any sort of progress in their yearly releases, but i've given up on that.
Cool! Considering Quicken was the program people wanted on Linux, Gnucash always seemed like a one-man-band and was desperate for developers.
h tml
An interview with the lead developer
http://slashdot.org/interviews/01/07/05/1456248.s
Its a good read.
What is wrong with all (most) of you?? All I see are flames here, toward GNUCash, how blah blah, it's unstable, blah blah, use KMyMoney, blah blah, the code is lame... I've been using it for 2 years straight and haven't had a problem ONCE. No database corruption, no corruption of any kind. THERE is your proof that GNUCash won't fuck up your finances.
I've learned so much about finances with GNUCash it's amazing - much more, I'm sure, than using some other program. The layout is very LOGICAL - maybe not the easiest, or prettiest (1.9 will probably fix the prettiness though) but crap... aren't we all about the functionality? Using "accounts" instead of "categories" is really cool IMHO - it allows so much more flexibility with what you're doing and doesn't corner you into doing things one certain way - it just teaches you how things are done.
Give me the name of another financial program that's able to track BUSINESS finances (not just personal), other than GNUCash. Now sit down, shut up and eat your beans!
GO NINERS! =p
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Doesn't sound that different than Quickbooks, Quicken, CCH, Lacert, etc. Quickbooks 2005 ocassionally breaks every other version of QB when you install it, Intuit says it has been a known issue for over a year and there is no fix... perfect solution for accountants who need every version of Quickbooks because their clients don't upgrade. Quicken 05 makes you uninstall every prior version, but you can get around it by "pushing" the application down. CCH... don't even get me started on their software. Lacert I don't know about, but we just bought a firm that uses so give me a couple of weeks and I am sure I will know something. A real Linux financial suite is the only reason we can't make the switch.
FTFA:
* Any 1.9.x version might crash unexpectedly at any point during runtime. [...]
* Keep in mind that features which are not used in everyday work might crash unexpectedly at all times. This includes but is not limited to [...]
* Especially all the new features might crash instantly on testing. [...]
* The documentation is completely outdated. [...]
after years of waiting, couldn't the developers have spent a couple more months to make it a bit more stable?
so should I hold my breath that XMMS will follow suit?
Whatever computer you run it on stores enough info in your home directory so it automatically opens your account file from the stick too of course. Good news is that it can import GNUCash files.
Projects like gaim have taken gtk2 based apps and ported them to here and everywhere, but that's only due to rampant popularity (and some Google support). Even then, I would need to actually store 3 binaries on the usb stick, and at that point I am wasting more space and time trying to find the right icon to click on.
I would say that overall GnuCash still has the most features, so if you're an aspiring accountant then... go for it.
I have been using GNUcash 1.8.X for some time and it has never crashed. I think the point is that 1.9.X is unstable because it has been converted to GTK2, not that the whole GNUcash application is unstable. The waiting part refers to the fact that everyone has been waiting for the GTK2 conversion to happen, since previously the project has stuck with GTK1. I would suggest doing some research and using the program before making such innane comments.
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
Is there some Win32 binaries of GnuCash I can download?
gnucash has qif import
Which is why I always trudge down to H&R Block, and sit in front of a Real Person (TM) who not only does the data entry, but can also call over a manager (who might actually be a CPA) if he/she gets in trouble. Also, I get some limited liability coverage (although you are still responsable for having all your forms). Followed by... in all the years I've sent it in through Block, I've never been audited or had the IRS send back a correction (like they did once when I did it myself).
If you want to risk spending days of your time doing taxes yourself, and wonder whether or not the software carried the decimal properly, then by all means buy software, set it up, and do it yourself. If you value your time, have a Real Person (TM), either a retail outfit like Block, or (probably more expensive) a CPA do it.
Of course if your taxes are trivial this advice doesn't apply. When I've been able to use the EZ form, I've done it myself no problem; but this year I've got a move across state lines and a number of other issues. No way would I even think about it. The time saved and piece of mind is well worth it. Plus they usually have free coffee.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
because RMS says that you're engaging in anti-social behavior, you won't NEED a money management program.
My mother, a financial advisor, is a lot more aggressive in our reporting of taxes. It's amazing how much you can save if you know what you're doing over companies like H&R Block. The reason you never got audited with H&R Block is because these 'bulk tax' companies are very conservative with their reporting. The IRS typically doesn't audit people that pay a little over their share.
So ya.. for a normal business, call H&R Block. If you're a financial advisor and have a son willing to do data entry for college money, then do it yourself.
--- We need more Ron Paul!
Quickbooks Pro has a web based version that's pretty nice. Pros: great tech support. Cons: $25/month and only works in internet explorer.
I would pay a monthly fee for a standards compliant web based version of Quicken.
Bigtime Consulting - "We're the best because we cost the most"
FWIW, I've made several comments and suggestions to the GnuCash user list and I always get a helpful response. No one treats me like an idiot, has an axe to grind or the like. Most of the time, someone named Derek is the one responding who I believe is an MIT graduate and writes very clear English. In general, I dislike the quality of most OSS software, but I like the way GnuCash is run, especially considering how few people actually contribute to it.
I can certainly relate to your experience with Quicken, although mine is with an AT&T VPN dialer. When it refused to work after an upgrade, I had to re-explain my problem over and over again, and their perspective, even after spending hours on the phone with me, was that *I* was the one doing something wrong. I've gotten better tech support by calling Microsoft, if you can believe it.
Best wishes anyway.
~Boring
Please attach your data file, including all bank account and credit card information. Thanks.
Why, for god's sake, is every application following Apple's lemming-leap off the cliff of moronised single-window-only application design!?
I had to switch from MS Money to Quicken after I found a bug that incorrectly calculated values. I spent almost an hour trying to get through to someone at MS. When I finally did, I walked the tech through recreateing the bug on his machine. He was able to easily recreate the problem to verify that it was in fact a bug. The next time I heard from them was about three months later when they left a message on my machine saying that they found this old trouble ticket, and since I wasn't home, they were going to close it out. Not fix it mind you. Just close out the ticket.
Uh-huh. And I suppose when you hear "Microsoft releases buggy beta version of Vista", or "prototype car doesn't pass crash testing" you complain about that too.
I use GnuCash and I like it, it is really a great tool. Kudos to developers for 1.9.0!
Funny thing--due to a small change in a header location in a recent release of a package, it won't build on Ubuntu out of the box; if fixed and compiled, it then crashes on startup. This isn't Mandrake 7.2, or Slackware Version Ancient--this is a fully updated version of one of the three most popular desktop distributions out there. I'm a bit disappointed.
So it's a bit less monumental for us Ubuntu users, alas...
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Oh yes, testing something that is buggy after years of development is a great use of my time. Even better than watching paint dry!
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Hell, not even Microsoft can do it that bad. This sucks.
I used GNU Cash for quite a while, but it got really old. It was impossible to compile from source without some sort of libtool voodoo magic, in my experience. It also crashed quite a bit. It certainly had a novelty appeal, but that can't prop up the spaghetti library dependencies and multiple development languages forever.
I eventually plucked down the $30 for Moneydance and have used it for the last couple years. The very best thing about Mneydance is that it is a Java application, meaning that anyone with a Java runtime can use it. It works on Mac and Solaris and Windows, for example. I actually consider it one of the showcase Java apps, where it really is cross-platform and works.
I wonder if they or someone else will release Mac binaries finally?
Yes, I know you can install GnuCash using Fink, as that's what I do currently. But it would be so much more convenient to be able to download a standalone GnuCash.app like you can with Gimp, Frozen Bubble, OpenOffice, AbiWord, and others.
Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
I've been using Gnucash for close to two years now. It was the final step to me ditching my Windows install, since I was using Quicken before.
;-)'
Gnucash isn't perfect, but it's got everything I need to keep track of things. I do all my entry manually, although I have imported a few times just testing (I prefer my own formatting and such and don't care which gas station, etc., just that it was a gas station).
I figure if I'd been upgrading Quicken versions, I'd have spent at least $50. Plus, I would like be able to link to a Windows port on my Free GPL Programs page which I list all the apps I use that others should check out on Windows.
I decided to donate to the cause. Hopefully others who use Gnucash will consider tipping the developers. I'm sure even $5, especially if it's dozens of folks, will help motivate them.
I wish I had the time to bug-test v1.9, but I don't, so I'll tip a little more
Hopefully there's a way to convert all my current data (about 50 hours of entry worth) into GnuCash's format. I'm definitely willing to give it a try..
I wouldn't be in a hurry if I were you. I'm sure GnuCash can import your QIF file from Quicken, but you don't want to use this version of GnuCash since it's an unstable development version. Also, you don't explicitly mention what operating system you're using, but just in case do you realize GnuCash only runs on Linux? As far as I know, anyway. And I get a funny feeling you aren't using Linux and probably aren't ready to switch just to use GnuCash.
Several people have mentioned Moneydance so far in this discussion and I'm taking a close look at it myself. I would be much more interested in seeing how well a person like you and your finances get along with Moneydance. Personally I hate all platform-specific software no matter what platform it's on (especially for important things like finances). For that main reason I have never really given GnuCash much attention and Moneydance is looking good to me since it supports Mac OS X along with Windows and Linux. And it can import your Quicken QIF data, of course. On top of that it also seems to support a lot of the online features that make people stick with Quicken. So you really might want to check it out. And if you find a bug, get on the phone with them and see how they respond. That would be interesting to hear about as well.
This may sound like a plug but I don't work for them and haven't even used the software (yet). It just looks to me like a much better option especially if you are running Windows or Mac OS X. If I had a household with mixed Win/Mac/Linux computers (I do) I can't imagine using anything that isn't cross-platform for something this important. Quicken may run on Mac and Windows but have you ever tried migrating Quicken data from one platform to the other? It's a joke. Hopefully Moneydance can handle such situatiosn better.
There was a /. article about two weeks ago about Novell listing apps to be ported or something like that and at the top was Quicken/Quickbooks, which I use and am well pissed off that I can't get it to work on Linux.
One reply suggested that GnuCash was a viable alternative to quicken. My problem with GnuCash (or really with Quickbooks) was that I couldn't export the accounts from Quickbooks into GnuCash. Well anyway, at the time of the Novell article, we had just hit our year end, so we had P&L and Balance sheets for everything.
So, perfect time to try GnuCash, just resetting everything off the Balance Sheet. Anyway, through this process I discovered that Quickbooks had 'lost' some of my previous VAT payments. Added them all up - £400 for me (don't worry I triple checked - no messing with the tax man). So GnuCash wasn't free for me - they actually paid me to use it. Cheers, GnuCash!
I miss the simple 'VAT Report' from QuickBooks - it's quite tricky in GnuCash. But if it was costing me £400 - I can handle the minor inconvenience.
I'm really looking forward to the 1.9.0 - hopefully, some more of the inconveniences will disappear and maybe the interface will be a little less GTK1.
Genesis 1:32 And God typed
I wonder if the GnuCash developers know that even Linux users wish for none-free cash application, see
OSDL: Desktop Linux Client SurveyNovell: Cool-Solutions website
LinuxQuestions.org: "What programs would you like to see ported to Linux"
and would like to know what they consider to do against.
O. Wyss
See http://wyoguide.sf.net/papers/Cross-platform.html
I've been using Quicken 2004 on linux through crossover for a while now. I'm very satisfied with it. It is stable enough for me to do everything I need to do. I see little to no reason at all to use GUNCash until it is stable enough.
Would solve all your problems with the libraries. Yes it would be
big but you could always have the gtk2 version as an optional
download.
Why don't you wait a couple of months while they make it a bit more stable? ;-)
Or better yet, try it out and bitch loudly but articulately and helpfully on bugzilla about everything you don't like.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
I am searching for a replacement package for our small charity in Brussels. My main concern is that the authorities here have quite clear guidelines for reporting our finances - they dictate account codes for example. To do quaterly VAT returns we need to know some precise details for some precise forms.
My question is are the FLOSS accounting packages up to this. Can the/have they been customised for the accounting systems here in Europe?
Any ideas/help please!
Just like everything that uses GTK.
Which is why I use TurboTax Deluxe for $20. It takes less time the H&R Block, I'm in control and it found deductions that the buld tax preparers miss.
Athiesm is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
You forgot to close your italics tag. Where I come from, that's called a failure.
Perhaps they mean unstable like Debian means unstable: development release that changes often.
You forgot to close your italics tag. Where I come from, that's called a failure.
Where I come from that's called the sign of a troll.
You need to understand the difference between a failure and a mistake. I don't feel like educating you so go look it up.
Perhaps they mean unstable like Debian means unstable: development release that changes often.
Perhaps they mean unstable as in changes frequently, full of new and varying bugs, and not fit for an end user. This is something someone's suppose to trust their finances to for pity sake. People suggest this sort of SHIT to their friends and relatives as an alternative to a mainstream product, and then wonder why their friends and relatives think they're even more of a basement dwelling geek than before. But of course said geek then blames the end user for not knowing about the latest 0 day patch that fixes the problem or some esoteric command line option that has to be used.
Gee I wonder why Linux hasn't taken off on the desktop.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
You're the troll in this case.
It would indeed be a mistake to suggest an unstable release to end user as a polished product. But you'd be the one making the mistake rather than the developers who wrote it and labelled it as unstable. Suggest it to your friends when it reaches 2.0.
Indeed! I hope to get some good bug reports filed; even though I don't speak guile (which a great deal of GnuCash is written in), I can definitely file good, repeatable bug reports and do my part to help out the project in that sense. Only a tiny fraction of users actually file bugs, and only some of them file good bugs. And only a very, very small fraction of those actually become developers. Well, at least I've moved from filing bad bugs to filing good bugs.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
No, I'm not going to suggest this to my friends. EVER. I'm not going to suggest Linux to my friends either. These are not tools for end users unless they have a lot of time to spend fiddling. Fiddling's perfectly fine if you're interested in computers. But products like these aren't ever going to catch on in their current state. The whole mindset needs to change.
As for being a troll, look up the definition some time. A troll is not simply someone who has a point of view you don't like.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer