Guidelines, tutorial, code samples: wyoGuide
on
Why Use GTK+?
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· Score: -1, Troll
I don't want to start a flamewar "GTK+ versus..." either but IMO IBM would be well adviced to look into wyoGuide (http://wyoguide.sf.net/) especially if they target Windows users. At least wyoGuide also has development guidelines, can be used as a simple tutorial and the provided sample code is not only a "Hello world" but a fully featured application usable as a starting code base for others projects.
So if you plan to start a new project either on Linux, Windows, MacOSX or whatever, first have a look into wyoGuide and mkae up your own mind.
might not become a technology of 2006 but definitely one of the next years. It has the potential to change the future of the whole computer industry. Just imaging you go to the next store and buy a computer of your liking but never again have to ask "Does this application run on this system?" and neither "Is this game also available on this computer?". There will come a future were customers simply expect anything running on every system. 2006 might not be the right time but if you start asking for cross-platform solutions this future will come.
You can do that with Thunderbird as well, but it doesn't work with folders since a Move of a message is a Copy/Delete. Therefore moved messages get deleted even if you don't want it.
Not everybody gets a Gmail account while POP3 is mostly included by the internet access providers. I estimate that more than 90% of all users still use a POP3 account.
neither of the three mail applications seems to be attractive enough for the users participating in the Linux Desktop Survey (http://www.osdl.org/dtl/DTL_Survey_Report_Nov2005 .pdf ). In the survey e-mail was rated the most important application while the top inhibitor for a Linux desktop adoption are the missing applications. Why aren't any of these mailers sufficient enough for the everyday use of ordinary users?
Well I estimate it wouldn't take Google much longer than about 3 month to rip off their picture visualizing engine and integrate it into my cross-platform Earth mockup (see http://wyoguide.sourceforge.net/index.php?page=ear th.html). Before you ask, no, I can't build this engine myself.
Whenever I've done a project with an interpreted language I've come to a point where I had to recode it in C++. It happened with Java, it happened with Perl, I haven't done any serious projects in C# or Python so I don't know for sure. I don't want to say interpretative languages are bad but just be aware of this. Maybe I've just done the "wrong" projects.
These days a geek probably will develop cross-platform since a geek don't want to be limited by platform considerations. And if you want to create a decent application with all the usual features a top application has, there is IMO just one solution and that is wyoGuide. wyoGuide allows you not only to create cross-platform applications but also build good and full featured application and with the demo sample code you get this application coded really fast. Any application written using the sample code will just run right from the start.
If you have time I invite to try it out and hopefully return an experience report for others to see how easy it was.
When Perl6 was defined and Larry ask developers about their wishes, one wish was
Perl version should never pass 2*Pi
Amazing when you look now at the reluctance how developers switch to Perl6 and still stick with Perl5.x Larry might fulfill this wish in a way nobody expected.
O. Wyss
As a developer I'd like to work for a top rated company which produces top rated products. These sooner or later have to be ported to multiple platforms. As this is easiest done with cross-platform development right from the start, you easily find out if your future empoyer wants to play in the top ligue. If the employer just answers no, you better look for another. If he doesn't know what "cross-platform" means you'll probably become the guy who introduces it into this company. And if the employer says yes, you probably get the job because you proved to know more than the others applicants.
To find out more about "cross-platform" follow the link in the signature.
The loss of IE on the Mac simply increases a Mac web develope'rs need for a secondary Windows box or VPC for testing. Although that need has always existed to some extent, now it REALLY exists.
The loss of IE isn't as critical as it would be the loss of MSOffice. While there are some alternative browsers, there is no real alternative Office. OpenOffice can't support the Mac anymore, NeoOffice is more or less dead and the Apple products aren't sufficient.
There aren't that many old developers since development isn't an old profession. And only the die hard developers keep on going, all the others have dropped out earlier. Also you have to educate yourself all the way along so you stay at the top of your colleagues. Of course you may try to build up something as I did with wyoGuide to show everybody what you're able.
O. Wyss
PS. Just a note, wyoGuide might prove very interesting for IBM.
Re:Cross-platform, Java isn't first anymore
on
Java Is So 90s
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· Score: 0
My employer slowly replaces each Java application either with AJAX or fat clients (C++). It's just a matter of time until no Java is used. I'm quite confidential other companies follow the same path.
During the time of Perl5 there was a lot of talking of surpassing C++ and about usable for everything. But it seems it didn't work out this way. For the hard core stuff and for a lot more C++ is still the only alternative. It doesn't matter much how good a language is, it matters how good the tools, the frameworks of a language are. For libraries and applications C++ still is the first address. Therefore it's understandable that the Visual-... got scrapped.
Usability of a desktop system is mostly defined by the available applications and by the quality of these applications. Even the most important part of each desktop, the file manager is just an ordinary application. So any Gnome versus KDE study is just another useless effort which has no relevance to the users. Just have a look at the Linux desktop survey (http://www.osdl.org/dtl/DTL_Survey_Report_Nov2005 .pdf) which clearly lists the missing applications as the top inhibitor for an adoption.
Cross-platform, Java isn't first anymore
on
Java Is So 90s
·
· Score: 0
Java once was know as the only solution for any cross-platform work but that's not true anymore, it's not even first anymore. On the web side there is JavaScript (AJAX) and on the application side there is C++ (wyoGuide/wxWidgets) which are much better suited for any cross-platform work. So it's no wonder Java is dimishing.
Otto Stern stole my first name so it's just justice he gets the initial stolen.;-)
I share Otto's impression about OpenSource since a long time and therefore created wyoGuide which hopefully helps improve OpenSource anytime in the future.
Amazing, this survey lists the first fact what I pray for years: "There are not enough common applications on Linux"! And the solution for this is: "Cross-platform development". Cross-platform development is easy if you do it as wyoGuide (http://wyoguide.sf.net/) suggests. Besides see this summarizing eWeek article http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1893639,00.as p.
Munich's transition to Linux shows one thing for sure: There are lots of third party products which are Windows-only! Unfortunately Munich doesn't provide any number but Mannheim says they have about 150 and I know our company has about 130. As you see this is a number you simply can't forget, each (or many) of them might be a killer argument. So the first and most important task to help Linux to success, is to reduce the number of Windows-only application!
The solutions are different and may vary from Java applications to terminal server but there are always a few left which have to be done with C++. And at least for these but also for some of the others there is wyoGuide (URL:http://wyoguide.sf.net). It shows how you can code in a cross-platform fashion with all the features and tricks C++ provides.
I do distribute source but i'd like to distribute binaries as well since building from source isn't what everybody likes. E.g. I've made a simple sample code for the Tor GUI contest (http://wyoguide.sf.net/index.php?page=tormgr.html) but to build it from the source, to get an idea how it works, isn't easy for everybody.
O. Wyss
all the mail clients would handle it correct. To retrieve messages from a POP3 account to several computers you simply have to configure your mail client with "Leave messages on server". Of course that way your mail account will overflow after some time and possibly get locked by the provider, therefore you also have to configure "Delete when locally deleted". These simple setting are all you need unfortunately Mozilla Thunderbird (the obvious choice for multiple different computers) can't do that since it can only "Delete when locally deleted _and_ moved to other folders". So a power user either can't use a POP3 account or can't use folders with TB, something which sounds ridiculous.
O. Wyss
Slashdot Mirror
Biased by my own project wyoGuide (see http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=172 263&cid=14343909) I can say that wxWidgets is probably the best choice for cross-platform development.
O. Wyss
I don't want to start a flamewar "GTK+ versus ..." either but IMO IBM would be well adviced to look into wyoGuide (http://wyoguide.sf.net/) especially if they target Windows users. At least wyoGuide also has development guidelines, can be used as a simple tutorial and the provided sample code is not only a "Hello world" but a fully featured application usable as a starting code base for others projects.
So if you plan to start a new project either on Linux, Windows, MacOSX or whatever, first have a look into wyoGuide and mkae up your own mind.
O. Wyss
might not become a technology of 2006 but definitely one of the next years. It has the potential to change the future of the whole computer industry. Just imaging you go to the next store and buy a computer of your liking but never again have to ask "Does this application run on this system?" and neither "Is this game also available on this computer?". There will come a future were customers simply expect anything running on every system. 2006 might not be the right time but if you start asking for cross-platform solutions this future will come.
O. Wyss
You can do that with Thunderbird as well, but it doesn't work with folders since a Move of a message is a Copy/Delete. Therefore moved messages get deleted even if you don't want it.
O. Wyss
Not everybody gets a Gmail account while POP3 is mostly included by the internet access providers. I estimate that more than 90% of all users still use a POP3 account.
O. Wyss
neither of the three mail applications seems to be attractive enough for the users participating in the Linux Desktop Survey (http://www.osdl.org/dtl/DTL_Survey_Report_Nov2005 .pdf ). In the survey e-mail was rated the most important application while the top inhibitor for a Linux desktop adoption are the missing applications. Why aren't any of these mailers sufficient enough for the everyday use of ordinary users?
O. Wyss
Well I estimate it wouldn't take Google much longer than about 3 month to rip off their picture visualizing engine and integrate it into my cross-platform Earth mockup (see http://wyoguide.sourceforge.net/index.php?page=ear th.html). Before you ask, no, I can't build this engine myself.
O. Wyss
Opera is NOT a Qt app ... special GUI toolkit which they developed internally.
Are you sure? I'm amazed! How comes that everybody thinks they can develop and support a better GUI toolkit than others?
O. Wyss
Sun has Java
Microsoft has C#
Google has Python
Who has C++?
Whenever I've done a project with an interpreted language I've come to a point where I had to recode it in C++. It happened with Java, it happened with Perl, I haven't done any serious projects in C# or Python so I don't know for sure. I don't want to say interpretative languages are bad but just be aware of this. Maybe I've just done the "wrong" projects.
O. Wyss
These days a geek probably will develop cross-platform since a geek don't want to be limited by platform considerations. And if you want to create a decent application with all the usual features a top application has, there is IMO just one solution and that is wyoGuide. wyoGuide allows you not only to create cross-platform applications but also build good and full featured application and with the demo sample code you get this application coded really fast. Any application written using the sample code will just run right from the start.
If you have time I invite to try it out and hopefully return an experience report for others to see how easy it was.
O. Wyss
When Perl6 was defined and Larry ask developers about their wishes, one wish was Perl version should never pass 2*Pi Amazing when you look now at the reluctance how developers switch to Perl6 and still stick with Perl5.x Larry might fulfill this wish in a way nobody expected. O. Wyss
As a developer I'd like to work for a top rated company which produces top rated products. These sooner or later have to be ported to multiple platforms. As this is easiest done with cross-platform development right from the start, you easily find out if your future empoyer wants to play in the top ligue. If the employer just answers no, you better look for another. If he doesn't know what "cross-platform" means you'll probably become the guy who introduces it into this company. And if the employer says yes, you probably get the job because you proved to know more than the others applicants.
To find out more about "cross-platform" follow the link in the signature.
O. Wyss
The loss of IE on the Mac simply increases a Mac web develope'rs need for a secondary Windows box or VPC for testing. Although that need has always existed to some extent, now it REALLY exists.
The loss of IE isn't as critical as it would be the loss of MSOffice. While there are some alternative browsers, there is no real alternative Office. OpenOffice can't support the Mac anymore, NeoOffice is more or less dead and the Apple products aren't sufficient.
The only hope the Mac fans IMO have is to see that cross-platform starts getting accepted and use by a broad audience. See and support "A guide, a tutorial for developing well-designed cross-platform applications"
O. Wyss
There aren't that many old developers since development isn't an old profession. And only the die hard developers keep on going, all the others have dropped out earlier. Also you have to educate yourself all the way along so you stay at the top of your colleagues. Of course you may try to build up something as I did with wyoGuide to show everybody what you're able.
O. Wyss
PS. Just a note, wyoGuide might prove very interesting for IBM.
Ohh, someone got upset. Did you miss the link here http://freshmeat.net/projects/wyoguide/ ?
My employer slowly replaces each Java application either with AJAX or fat clients (C++). It's just a matter of time until no Java is used. I'm quite confidential other companies follow the same path.
Sorry that's the way of live.
O. Wyss
During the time of Perl5 there was a lot of talking of surpassing C++ and about usable for everything. But it seems it didn't work out this way. For the hard core stuff and for a lot more C++ is still the only alternative. It doesn't matter much how good a language is, it matters how good the tools, the frameworks of a language are. For libraries and applications C++ still is the first address. Therefore it's understandable that the Visual-... got scrapped.
O. Wyss
Usability of a desktop system is mostly defined by the available applications and by the quality of these applications. Even the most important part of each desktop, the file manager is just an ordinary application. So any Gnome versus KDE study is just another useless effort which has no relevance to the users. Just have a look at the Linux desktop survey (http://www.osdl.org/dtl/DTL_Survey_Report_Nov2005 .pdf) which clearly lists the missing applications as the top inhibitor for an adoption.
Java once was know as the only solution for any cross-platform work but that's not true anymore, it's not even first anymore. On the web side there is JavaScript (AJAX) and on the application side there is C++ (wyoGuide/wxWidgets) which are much better suited for any cross-platform work. So it's no wonder Java is dimishing.
see http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1893639,00.as p
O. Wyss
but the most important reason is the first top inhibitors for adoption, see http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=169728&cid=141 45789.
O. Wyss
Otto Stern stole my first name so it's just justice he gets the initial stolen. ;-)
I share Otto's impression about OpenSource since a long time and therefore created wyoGuide which hopefully helps improve OpenSource anytime in the future.
Otto Wyss
Amazing, this survey lists the first fact what I pray for years: "There are not enough common applications on Linux"! And the solution for this is: "Cross-platform development". Cross-platform development is easy if you do it as wyoGuide (http://wyoguide.sf.net/) suggests. Besides see this summarizing eWeek article http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1893639,00.as p.
Munich's transition to Linux shows one thing for sure: There are lots of third party products which are Windows-only! Unfortunately Munich doesn't provide any number but Mannheim says they have about 150 and I know our company has about 130. As you see this is a number you simply can't forget, each (or many) of them might be a killer argument. So the first and most important task to help Linux to success, is to reduce the number of Windows-only application!
The solutions are different and may vary from Java applications to terminal server but there are always a few left which have to be done with C++. And at least for these but also for some of the others there is wyoGuide (URL:http://wyoguide.sf.net). It shows how you can code in a cross-platform fashion with all the features and tricks C++ provides.
O. Wyss
I do distribute source but i'd like to distribute binaries as well since building from source isn't what everybody likes. E.g. I've made a simple sample code for the Tor GUI contest (http://wyoguide.sf.net/index.php?page=tormgr.html ) but to build it from the source, to get an idea how it works, isn't easy for everybody.
O. Wyss
all the mail clients would handle it correct. To retrieve messages from a POP3 account to several computers you simply have to configure your mail client with "Leave messages on server". Of course that way your mail account will overflow after some time and possibly get locked by the provider, therefore you also have to configure "Delete when locally deleted". These simple setting are all you need unfortunately Mozilla Thunderbird (the obvious choice for multiple different computers) can't do that since it can only "Delete when locally deleted _and_ moved to other folders". So a power user either can't use a POP3 account or can't use folders with TB, something which sounds ridiculous. O. Wyss