Security fixes require reboots, period. Yes, Linux/UNIX is included, a kernel replacement means reboot.
Never mind best practice would be to schedule a reboot on a regular basis, not because it's necessary but to guarantee servers will come up correctly given system changes, patches, etc.
Given the rest of the board is reasonable, it's a little early to be shouting "The Sky is Falling".
A reasonable strategy would be to throw the two sides into a kettle and see who wins out. This may be an attempt to shorten the communication lines and ultimately be a good thing.
The actual article is titled: "Criticism mounts over Birmingham's Linux project"
This is a followup on the project being discarded, mainly focusing on critical comments of how the project was managed.
Notable quote: 'Mark Taylor, whose Open Source Consortium also exited the project in the early stages, said: "I have no idea how anyone could spend half a million pounds on 200 desktops, running free software".'
Anyone remember those rolling blackouts? Why were they happening again?
Now imagine a power grid that must supply HUGE amounts of current in short, unpredictable burst. Imagine trying to balance power production back at the power plant.
This "technology" is obviously way too optimistic to have wide spread use.
Say you really hate DatabaseX (**). You'd rather not waste any disk space or time for DatabaseX. rpm-type distros usually have at most one flavor of an app, if the distro ships with DatabaseX, you get all packages compiled with DatabaseX support, period. Yuck.
Gentoo, it's a simple matter of USE="-DatabaseX". Nothing gets built with DatabaseX support, no DatabaseX in sight. Ahhh!
** Feel free to substiture MySQL, PostgreSQL or Firebird as desired.
Hmmm, that's true, making more work for the devs is not the way to go.
I guess where I'm coming from is the recent gcc/glibc thing. I sync'd to get browser patches and ended up staring at glib crap. Ack!
What about having snapshots of portage? So when syncing, a user could choose '2006-05-31' or something. Still a problem when source tarballs fail to exist any more.
The problems I run into are things marked stable that I'm not ready to deal with or packages that have been dropped, forcing upgrade or (worse) offering no path (mozilla-suite+mozplugger being an example. I ain't upgrading until I get an LCARS theme!:) ).
Point 1 is spot on. Portage has become a liability rather than a strength. The main reason is simple: Revision control in Portage is poor.
I've been a Gentoo user for quite a while, mainly as my primary desktop OS. The recent gcc 4.1.1 updates are an example of where Portage falls down: unless a person is constantly watching, it's easy to get burned. Security patches are a real problem, if say firefox really really needs to be updated, having to fight with a glibc upgrade is not the way to get the job done. Worse is when a working app is dropped from portage after a sync (of course, this is usually an upstream problem, hard to compile without the source!).
Now, that said, Gentoo has a lot going for it. Not as anal about licensing as Debian, fresher versions of many things. Many many choices. Think vixie-cron is the anti-christ? Not a problem, here's four others to choose from.
My opinion would be that there should be finer levels of keywords. Not just ~x86 and x86, for example, a rock/flint/knife/razor level of granularity would be an idea.
"We all know that some gas stations don't follow the unspoken price rule where you don't undercut your competitors and they won't undercut you."
Actually, I know of at least one township where the local city ordances demand that all gasoline supplies be within a range on price, meaning no one station can be out of line by more than a nickel.
I couldn't believe this when I heard it, that seems completely counter to a free market. I suppose the idea is keep Walmart et al from forcing all the local stations out of business and creating a nice little monopoly.
Thanks for playing the "I know your Vote" game, we regret to inform you that you did not win.
Please play again.
The only way I could be enabling the current administration is the fact that I haven't left the country. Yet. And Yes, I have Mailed (with Paper) my congress-critter about my desires with respect to abusive copyright protection.
"Anyone (Red Hat or non-Red Hat) who tells you that Fedora isn't suitable for a production server is wrong."
I have been saying for years that Fedora is not suitable for production use. I've followed this interview and the previous questions thread carefully and checked into the Fedora site.
I stand by the initial statement: Fedora is not for production use.
Why? The same reasons Gentoo is not suitable or any other distro that breaks things on a regular basis. Production doesn't mean "on all the time" or "Up and running more often than not". Perhaps the definition of production is where Max and I disagree. My definition of production includes things like 24/7, mission critical, must not break. Given the cutting edge nature of Fedora, indeed its very mission statement, it simply does not fit. Workstation use? Sure. Departmental Server? Yeah, along as not too many dollars are lost when it breaks. $10,000/hour-of-downtime system? NO.
Now, I do want to give props for two things.
1) Acknowledging the Redhat/Fedora birthing was handled really really badly. Enough said on that, perhaps I can move on now.
2) Fedora as a project is coming along, I get the sense that some of the kinks are being worked out and it's something I might consider installing and using Real Soon Now. Congratulations on the progress.
They are the ones flipping the switch on the device. And that would include devices that:
1) Their customers "own". 2) Are out of warranty.
While I'm not happy about the situation, Tivo is not really at fault here. (Disclaimer: I am NOT a Tivo subscriber, but am, FOR NOW, a Dish subscriber).
Here's why. The DVR I currently have not only do I "own", but is out of warranty as well. Meaning if the thing dies, tough for me, buy a new one. I don't have a problem with that really, as at least I know.
Now, to have them fuck with the device that I own and THEY WON'T SUPPORT, that calls for action. Turning my functioning device into a nonfunctioning device without my permission smells like law breaking somewhere. If this was the other way around, say I was breaking functionality in their network for example, you bet your ass they'd be all other me with lawsuits.
Class action lawsuit, here we come! Any ambulance chasers want to make a few million?
The Gov should worry about keeping THEIR systems secure, certainly. Why don't they leave the rest of us to worry about ourselves? And no, these patches don't affect me or my systems, as they aren't Microsoft.
The DHS shouldn't be wasting their time/resources on Microsoft patches. Never mind my opinion of the creation of DHS in the first place.
In case you forgot, the "government" had Microsoft up for anti-trust. You know, found guilty and all that. You did notice the change in adminstration made all that quietly go away, right?
You do recall Microsoft getting to where they are by illegal business practices, right?
Slashdot Mirror
Security fixes require reboots, period. Yes, Linux/UNIX is included, a kernel replacement means reboot.
Never mind best practice would be to schedule a reboot on a regular basis, not because it's necessary but to guarantee servers will come up correctly given system changes, patches, etc.
Don't forget the:
1. Semis dueling down the interstate seeing whose cruise control will win. For FIVE MILES.
2. Speeders who think the speed limit starts at 5 mph over and add an extra 10.
3. Drivers who just like to hang out in the left lane.
Replace "graphics card" with "general purpose computer" in your argument.
Intel seems able to sell hardware despite an open spec and has for more than a decade. Hmmm.
Given the rest of the board is reasonable, it's a little early to be shouting "The Sky is Falling".
A reasonable strategy would be to throw the two sides into a kettle and see who wins out. This may be an attempt to shorten the communication lines and ultimately be a good thing.
Knee-jerk, get thee behind me!
"Windows is here for the future."
No. I experienced the rise of Windows and I will live to see the fall of Microsoft. Just as the Roman Empire, they too shall fall.
If the engineers are really in charge at Novell, I'd agree with you. However, I seriously doubt that is the case.
Management is all about the bottom line and $384M is an easy pick over "do no Evil".
The actual article is titled: "Criticism mounts over Birmingham's Linux project"
This is a followup on the project being discarded, mainly focusing on critical comments of how the project was managed.
Notable quote: 'Mark Taylor, whose Open Source Consortium also exited the project in the early stages, said: "I have no idea how anyone could spend half a million pounds on 200 desktops, running free software".'
Note that Taco put it from "the they-should-have-said-please dept".
Editorial commentary where it doesn't belong, but hey.
Mod Up!!
Original Poster, you do realize Microsoft funded the SCO antics? Or is your head still in the sand?
Seconding the AC, being an Iowa resident.
e ?AID=/20060901/NEWS10/609010374/1001/NEWS
http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/articl
"Fighting" against online gambling while promoting more brick and mortar establishments spells "HYPOCRITE".
Anyone remember those rolling blackouts? Why were they happening again?
Now imagine a power grid that must supply HUGE amounts of current in short, unpredictable burst. Imagine trying to balance power production back at the power plant.
This "technology" is obviously way too optimistic to have wide spread use.
To expand:
Say you really hate DatabaseX (**). You'd rather not waste any disk space or time for DatabaseX. rpm-type distros usually have at most one flavor of an app, if the distro ships with DatabaseX, you get all packages compiled with DatabaseX support, period. Yuck.
Gentoo, it's a simple matter of USE="-DatabaseX". Nothing gets built with DatabaseX support, no DatabaseX in sight. Ahhh!
** Feel free to substiture MySQL, PostgreSQL or Firebird as desired.
Hmmm, that's true, making more work for the devs is not the way to go.
:) ).
I guess where I'm coming from is the recent gcc/glibc thing. I sync'd to get browser patches and ended up staring at glib crap. Ack!
What about having snapshots of portage? So when syncing, a user could choose '2006-05-31' or something. Still a problem when source tarballs fail to exist any more.
The problems I run into are things marked stable that I'm not ready to deal with or packages that have been dropped, forcing upgrade or (worse) offering no path (mozilla-suite+mozplugger being an example. I ain't upgrading until I get an LCARS theme!
Point 1 is spot on. Portage has become a liability rather than a strength. The main reason is simple: Revision control in Portage is poor.
I've been a Gentoo user for quite a while, mainly as my primary desktop OS. The recent gcc 4.1.1 updates are an example of where Portage falls down: unless a person is constantly watching, it's easy to get burned. Security patches are a real problem, if say firefox really really needs to be updated, having to fight with a glibc upgrade is not the way to get the job done. Worse is when a working app is dropped from portage after a sync (of course, this is usually an upstream problem, hard to compile without the source!).
Now, that said, Gentoo has a lot going for it. Not as anal about licensing as Debian, fresher versions of many things. Many many choices. Think vixie-cron is the anti-christ? Not a problem, here's four others to choose from.
My opinion would be that there should be finer levels of keywords. Not just ~x86 and x86, for example, a rock/flint/knife/razor level of granularity would be an idea.
"We all know that some gas stations don't follow the unspoken price rule where you don't undercut your competitors and they won't undercut you."
Actually, I know of at least one township where the local city ordances demand that all gasoline supplies be within a range on price, meaning no one station can be out of line by more than a nickel.
I couldn't believe this when I heard it, that seems completely counter to a free market. I suppose the idea is keep Walmart et al from forcing all the local stations out of business and creating a nice little monopoly.
Mod up.
The "customers" are the various vendors and Microsoft is selling/providing "Users".
Good old economics at work.
Seconded!
I tell people to use Firefox because it's a better browser, not because it has more bell and whistles.
Leave the extra bling to extensions, which is the whole point of extensions.
There are updates and then there are updates.
I prefer an environment where bug/security fixes are backported to the shipping version of app XYZ for Production systems.
My understanding is (please correct if wrong) that with Fedora, the philosophy is go ahead and upgrade to the fixed version.
*buzz*
Thanks for playing the "I know your Vote" game, we regret to inform you that you did not win.
Please play again.
The only way I could be enabling the current administration is the fact that I haven't left the country. Yet.
And Yes, I have Mailed (with Paper) my congress-critter about my desires with respect to abusive copyright protection.
"Anyone (Red Hat or non-Red Hat) who tells you that Fedora isn't suitable for a production server is wrong."
I have been saying for years that Fedora is not suitable for production use. I've followed this interview and the previous questions thread carefully and checked into the Fedora site.
I stand by the initial statement: Fedora is not for production use.
Why? The same reasons Gentoo is not suitable or any other distro that breaks things on a regular basis. Production doesn't mean "on all the time" or "Up and running more often than not". Perhaps the definition of production is where Max and I disagree. My definition of production includes things like 24/7, mission critical, must not break. Given the cutting edge nature of Fedora, indeed its very mission statement, it simply does not fit. Workstation use? Sure. Departmental Server? Yeah, along as not too many dollars are lost when it breaks. $10,000/hour-of-downtime system? NO.
Now, I do want to give props for two things.
1) Acknowledging the Redhat/Fedora birthing was handled really really badly. Enough said on that, perhaps I can move on now.
2) Fedora as a project is coming along, I get the sense that some of the kinks are being worked out and it's something I might consider installing and using Real Soon Now. Congratulations on the progress.
No, Echostar/Dish would be the proper target.
They are the ones flipping the switch on the device. And that would include devices that:
1) Their customers "own".
2) Are out of warranty.
While I'm not happy about the situation, Tivo is not really at fault here. (Disclaimer: I am NOT a Tivo subscriber, but am, FOR NOW, a Dish subscriber).
I'm not only bothered, I'm really pissed off.
Here's why. The DVR I currently have not only do I "own", but is out of warranty as well. Meaning if the thing dies, tough for me, buy a new one. I don't have a problem with that really, as at least I know.
Now, to have them fuck with the device that I own and THEY WON'T SUPPORT, that calls for action. Turning my functioning device into a nonfunctioning device without my permission smells like law breaking somewhere. If this was the other way around, say I was breaking functionality in their network for example, you bet your ass they'd be all other me with lawsuits.
Class action lawsuit, here we come! Any ambulance chasers want to make a few million?
The Gov should worry about keeping THEIR systems secure, certainly. Why don't they leave the rest of us to worry about ourselves? And no, these patches don't affect me or my systems, as they aren't Microsoft.
The DHS shouldn't be wasting their time/resources on Microsoft patches. Never mind my opinion of the creation of DHS in the first place.
In case you forgot, the "government" had Microsoft up for anti-trust. You know, found guilty and all that. You did notice the change in adminstration made all that quietly go away, right?
You do recall Microsoft getting to where they are by illegal business practices, right?
I personally have only one reaction: disgust.
I don't need nor desire the "government" to hold my hand.
I think the "government" has a lot better things they should be worrying about.
But mostly I blame the "government" for allowing the situation with Microsoft to exist.
By "government" I of course refer to the current administration.
Actually, thanks to the GPL, that is totally false!
If Redhat closed its doors today, the source would live on. Granted, CentOS or someone would have to pick up new development.