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Detecting Tailgaters With Lasers
stoolpigeon writes "Police in Arizona are using laser range finders to detect and ticket tailgaters. An officer can now measure not only the speed of passing vehicles but also how close they are to one another. The detectors described in the article are built by Laser Technology Inc., a company that provides lasers for traffic control, engineering, and even tactical/military solutions. The article mentions how tailgating is connected to many accidents and incidents of road rage; this observation fits my experience."
My experience, too. Tailgating is far more dangerous than mere speeding. So to with wanton lane changing, but that could be more of a CA thing.
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
It seems like they could spend money on so many different things. . . . They need to catch speeders more than tailgaters."
:)
Umm, no. Tailgaters are worse. There can be a smart speeder. There is no such thing as smart tailgater. Becauses, it is not speeding that causes accidents, it's the person speeding needs to take extra caution. It can be done, even if it usually is not. Tailgating in-and-of-itself is dangerous.
"I've seen people at 0.04 seconds. That is less than half a second," he said.
Talk about enlightening comments.
Some of the comments there say that someone else will just pull ahead of you. Ahem, they will then get tickets. That's the point. Then they complain that they're close for a minute and get tickets, well, this complaint and the first complaint are opposites.
I hope these tickets work. Next we can take on gawkers.
Have you read my journal today?
What if the people using the device selectively target who they pull over based on its readings?
Oh, wait, that applies to everyone who will be using it.
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
Wow, what a name. Wonder how they came up with it? I guess they're just creative.
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They never ticket for this anyway. What is the point of detecting it, and how is it better than eyeballs,or even a digital picture?
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I've seen people at 0.04 seconds. That is less than half a second," he said.
True. But it's a lot less than he thinks.
You're supposed to allow 1 foot for each 10 MPH of speed, you inconsiderate clod. And an extra 10 feet if you're watching a movie on the DVD player in the dash, and 10 more feet if it's a porn movie.
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
They can just ban the SUV. No fancy lasers needed.
Monstar L
Bad traffic in Phoenix has significantly less to do with illegial imigrants who can't read English (sheesh...) and much more to do with the facts that:
(a) Phoenix is too broad for it's own good. People live 30-40-50 miles from where they work.
(b) Phoenix freeway and surface street infrastructre has lagged behind our phenominal growth (see above).
(c) Phoenix is a melting pot. Nobody's actually FROM Phoenix. We're made of EX-somethings. Sure, there's a few natives, but it's NOT the norm.
(d) We have a significant snowbird population (also, see above).
Combine the overloaded bad infrastructure with a nation's worth of driving customs and a constantly supply of new (and seasonal) people, and you're looking at the bulk of what's wrong with Phoenix traffic.
Speeds of 85+ are the norm on I-10 (and 17 and 101/202/60/51) when congestion permits it.
The speed limit is the same for BOTH lanes of the road. And "the appropriate 10 mph+ over the speed limit" is a bunch of crap. The only APPROPRIATE speed is to follow the limit as given.
Let up on the accelerator there lead-foot.
Tailgating doesn't get anyone to where he wants to go even a milisecond faster. In fact the car in front needs to slow down to accomodate the unsafe driving situation. Tailgating must be one of the most dangerous bad driving practices there is, but I think tickets for it are rare because, without some kind of laser thingy, it's probably hard to document. I'm sure tailgating is a lot more dangerous than speeding.
In Germany, I believe, they ticket lane violations as well as tailgating. Why not track the entire problem, not just half of it?
Especially BMWs.
(I have a tow-ball.)
Ive never needed a silly laser to see when someone is tailgating someone else! Way for the police to buy any new technology that comes their way despite its ridiculousness
Then again when it comes to tailgating, I am all for this new technology, especially if it remains the duty of an actual officer to issue the ticket. This photo crap has got to be limited to red lights or something.
Invexi - a Phoenix, AZ based web design and web development company.
I try to be a safe driver. So, I drive with the intention of leaving a couple of car lengths between me and the car in front. What happens? Someone sees that as an invitation to merge on over!! Next thing I know my "safe space" is down to inches. Best thing to do then...I upset the guy behind me and slow down opening up more of a gap trying to manage between not letting someone over and making sure I have some room to stop.
Well i've been thinking a couple of times now to create a device to project a text on a front driving car, so i could say speedup, or i could sa Get out of the way you slow driving people, or to say your light is broken, or to say watch out there cops overthere. :))
no i'm not speeding, it's just that i live in democratic country and i have voted for a diference speed, and i still represent my fraction
hahaha :))
I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change.
We seemed to have stopped wondering and asking why people behave badly in the first place.
It's not tailgating, it's drafting! Have you seen the fuel prices these past few years?
I, for one, welcome our laser range finding overlords.
Drivers that slam on their brakes do. Why not just let the person pass?
The driver with the retinal damage gets the speeding ticket and the guy with the intact vision gets the tailgating ticket.
Good now all we need to do is attatch a missle to that laser....Problem solved...right guys?.....r....right?
The greatest revenge in life is massive success.
Caltrops
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
"The majority of the reactions I get from drivers are that they don't realize they are tailgating."
Pyeah, right...
"The speed limit is the same for BOTH lanes of the road. And "the appropriate 10 mph+ over the speed limit" is a bunch of crap. The only APPROPRIATE speed is to follow the limit as given."
Absolutely. And brush after every meal. And don't eat too much. And not too many sweets. And exercise. And respect each other's opinions. And don't talk back to your elders.
These are all important rules that someone needs to enforce. So that we're all happier.
mount them on the center median with cameras and ticket people for (a) tailgating and (b) driving slow in the left lane.
You, Mr(s)AC, obviously have never driven in Phoenix. 10mph over the posted speed limit is the norm on any of the many freeways crossing the metro area. It's not speeding, it's keeping up with the flow of traffic. I have witnessed many a highway patrol vehicle driving 10 over the speed limit and as long as the traffic is moving, not pulling people over who go past them (as long as they are not flying pass). It's not leadfoot, it's survival!
The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel...
Is the ticketting reducing the number of accidents?
If it fails to do this then it's taxation rather than law enforcement.
If cars came with LED sign-boards on the front that said things like "MOVE OVER AND LET ME PASS" (but in reverse for the mirror-effect) whenever a button is pressed, perhaps fewer people would use tailgating to communicate that point.
Really, I hardly ever have tailgaters on me. But I don't drive slow in the passing lane. And I don't go slower than the damn speed limit on 1-lane roads.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
like that doesn't already happen with radar guns for speeding, or license plate frames, or things hanging form your rear view mirror.
heck, i got pulled over once for 'taking a left turn too hard', then having my car searched for drugs (none found as none were there)
this device isn't going to make any difference one way or another as far as your comment is concerned.
You can replace "Phoenix" with "Atlanta" and you'll get exactly the same situation. I drive 25 miles to work, and the right-most lane goes around 70mph in a 55mph zone. I'm not a slow driver, so that's not a problem for me. However, I do keep my distance. As a result, I get constantly cut off by others, and it usually takes me a few seconds to regain my distance. If during that time I'm clocked as being too close to the car in front of me, I could easily get ticketed even though I didn't tailgate. (Almost said that I didn't do anything wrong, but I'm not that sure about that. A judge told my friend to drive closer to the car in front of him after a driver tried to cut my friend off and he tapped the driver's back corner, sending him into a spin. According to that judge, it is wrong to give people the opportunity to cut you off.)
Comment removed based on user account deletion
It always amazes me when we see some "new" technology like this in the U.S., when it's usually something that has been used in other countries for a long long time. For example, red light cameras that give tickets have been used in Germany since I was a kid (and that's been a while now ).
...Chicago is preparing for business to grind to a halt as the entire city's population is simultaneously pulled over to be ticketed for using the "two-meter" instead of "two-second" rule.
"...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
Will there ever be an end to all the money, effort and legislation directed at making it more efficient for police to arrest, ticket and fine you? Seems to me we could, at some point, direct some of our resources somewhere else. Why for example is virtually every highway in the US under construction until eternity? Isn't getting that job finished at some point maybe something we should do? Come down to Wake County NC courthouse. Every single day the building is in firecode violation because Wake County hands out 10's of thousands of tickets a week and arrests thousands. Why don't we just call all this what it is - a revenue source.
Bad traffic in Phoenix has significantly less to do with illegial imigrants who can't read English (sheesh...) and much more to do with the facts that:
:-P
Most people there can't write well-formed English?
My blog
Take the number of people driving below the speed limit to the number of people who are tailgating. My estimate is that this ratio is about 1:5000.
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
Here's an easy solution to being tailgated that ALWAYS works for me.
1. Wait for a tailgater to get within two seconds of your bumper.
2. Immediately yell "OH, MY GOD THE BUNNY!" and slam on your brakes.
3. As soon as the driver realizes what has happened, speed up and let him know he's number one.
-- or --
3. Exchange insurance information and file a claim.
Viola! No more tailgater.
.You've corrected spelling and/or grammar on the internet! You win!
Um... People driving the speed limit in the far left lane are obeying the law. The slow lane is not for people doing 60, but people doing 50 or 40 in a 60 zone.
And just to be an ass... It warms my heart to piss of folks when I do the posted speed in the fast lane. To see all your little faces get scrunched up in anger. All I can think of is how you will have a heart attack soon while you drive 20 mph over the speed limit while talking on your cell phone, drinking your coffee and eating your breakfast. Leaves more room on the road for me later.
On divided highways, tailgating rules should not be enforced in the fast lane if the state law requires slower traffic to keep right. In such cases, people holding up traffic in the fast lane should be pulled over and cited.
In all other cases though, I support the enforcement of laws against tailgating.
Whats funny is that the speed limit on the 60 is 65 mph, so people drive around 75-80 even the cops. I HATE it when there are snowbirds that drive 55 mph because that is the freeway speed in their state. THOSE people cause accidents. Like you say ... its survival. Going 65 on a day when EVERYONE is doing 80+ is pretty dangerous too. Heck, often I race a cop going 90 mph all the way home on the US60 in Mesa.
I agree with you; people driving in the "fast" lane really piss me off. But I would just like to say that you are in the wrong too. Maybe you are just using slang, but there is no such thing as a "fast" lane! There is a PASSING lane, that's it. If you are not passing anyone, you have no business being in the passing lane. No matter what your speed. And that is, what I believe, to be the crux of the problem. For some reason people think that the left most lane is the "fast" lane, and since they don't want to think of themselves as slow, they MUST be in the "fast" lane.
Spiffy technology, but how about the left lane squatters out there? For every person that's following too close what are the odds that the person in front should be in the right lane because they're not actively overtaking somebody.
it's foreign drivers who've immigrated who ride tail on the road...
because in their country you get out of the way if you are holding up traffic...
instead of slamming on your brakes because 'You were there first and are going the speed limit'...
If people practiced common courtesy and paid attention while they drive a LOT less accidents would occur of ANY KIND
My favourite method of dealing with tailgaters is to send them into a panic by tromping on my brakes hard enough to make the car dive, but for a short enough period of time that my speed does not change measurably.
Get the fuck off my tail.
And while you're at it, take out those goddamn ultra-bright blue headlights.
It may look like I'm doing nothing, but I'm actively waiting for my problems to go away.
--Scott Adams
In heavy traffic, if you constantly change lanes, tailgate anyone in front of you, shake your fist in fury, you will get most places a lot faster.
I hope they roll this out nationwide.
In Soviet Russia, I ruled you
I think their should be a solar powered sensor array on every overpass on our major highways.
It would detect:
* Speed
* Distance to vehicle in front
* Sniff for drugs
* License plate to match against APB list (not stored)
An array of cameras would record video and pictures of offending vehicles and issue tickets.
If drugs are sniffed, the same vehicles are watched for at subsequent overpasses to determine which one it is.
The system should use off-the-shelf hardware and be open source.
The highways would be safer, and law enforcement agencies would have more time and resources to devote to what really matters.
Lose Weight and Feel Great with Isagenix
You don't piss me off... I'll just run into you... got to love once a year 'accident forgiveness' insurance!
In traffic, leaving more than a single car length between you and the guy in front of you gets you cut off. It's an invitation for some asshat in the next lane over to cut in. You know the type.
I tell ya... roof-mounted laser gun turrents. "We've got a Jetta at 3 o'clock! Get in there and keep him occupied until I can engage the damned lightdrive!"
That and enemy symphathizers - traitors. You rode that bumper like an animal in heat and kept the Jetta out of your lane. But what's this? The Jetta pulls ahead and that weak-willed pansy Corolla two cars ahead lets him in, after all your work! "Dammit man, we're trying to hold a line here. Get on that fucking bumper and ride it for all you're worth you fucking pussy!"
Where did these people learn to drive? Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood?
Farking tailgaters should be tasered along with the ticket.
oh, and while we're on the subject...
- turn on your damn headlights@!!! (no, your farking daytime running lights are NOT your headlights dumbass)
- learn how to farking merge onto a farking highway damnit!!! Stop trying to merge going 20kph slower than the highway traffic!
I'm not tailgating, I'm Drafting. The extra 5% gas savings, is awesome, AND I have the benefit of saving the planet from greenhouse gases.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
This drives some tailgaters nuts. One of them pulled up beside me at a red light and told me I just about caused an accident. This perhaps should have taught him something about his own habits, but given that tailgaters are pretty much by definition stupid, I'm not optimistic.
I don't recommend this strategy unless you box or something.
umm..no. it is a passing lane not a "fast lane". get yer stupid ass back in the "slow" lane and use the "fast" lane for passing. in germany you would get a ticket for driving at any speed in the fast lane if you were not using it just for passing. thats the way it should be in the states but stupid drivers just annoy everyone instead. use the far left lane just for passing dickhead.
What was that quote again? Those who are willing to give up freedom for safety don't deserve either! Thats just fine if you want to join the mindless ranks of sheep, but I'm not going to let The Man continue to control my life. Theres got to be privacy concerns here too, America becomes more and more of a police state every day. I'm getting out of here. Or at least I would if I lived there and not here, in the UK.
Tailgating is really dangerous. In a state where tailgating is rampant (PA), I am all for the enforcement of laws to curb tailgating. Alongside of this, there needs to be enforcement of laws relating to driving too slowly in the left hand lane or beneath the speed limit. Driving too slowly also makes for a road hazard. That said, after age 65, there should be manadatory bi-annual driver testing. This would give the law some power over irresponsible senior citizens. When it is time for me to give up my car, I shall do so without complaint. Speaking of which, I was caught behind one today going 10 mph underneath the speed limit and refused to yield to a flashing of the lights.
I was wondering what they had against football, beer and portable grills...
Live according to the Categorical Imperative. If the Categorical Imperative tells you not to live by it... ignore it
Scrolling marquee LCD display hacked to print the text in mirrored reverse.
But I'm sure there's some law that would break, plus I'm too lazy to bother trying.
How the hell am I supposed to be able to stop in time going 80mph when that guy is just 10 feet in front of me
This is modded funny, but it's actually sad but true. I've had quite a few incidents where I've had good clearance in front of me, only to have some dipshit speed up from nowhere, pass me, and then slow down to sit close on my nose. The more annoying ones are those that like to hang around blind spots etc.
For the nose-sitters, they're often of the variety that first tailgates, and when they finally do pass they will just pull up close in front of you. It quite worries me actually, as sometimes in these conditions I have little room to slow down and back off (aka another a**hole tailgater behind me) and thus if the jerk up front suddenly needs to slow or stop I'll be hitting his end and likely be held at-fault.
if you're going to build a complex laser system to track tailgating vehicles, you could have easily have invested another $100 and just got a stronger laser to allow said system to ignite and destroy tailgaters. save us all a lot of time and hassle
signed,
the taxpayers you serve
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Driving 60, as opposed to 55, only saves you 1 minute if you drive 12 miles. Thats right, unless your driving a very long distance or really fast, 10 mph doesnt make that much of a difference at all and saves you so much on gas.
Its amixed bag with my Fiero and tailgaters. On one hand, nearly everyone blinds me because the car is so short. On the other hand, if someone was to rear-end me, I have 500 lbs of engine to stop them. =)
there is no such thing as a fast lane and a slow lane, one is the driving lane, the other is the passing lane if your not passing someone get the fuck out of my way and if your are just driving in the left lane, not passing, you are breaking the law
I moved to the "Bible Belt" recently because of a business opportunity. ugh. Well, its hard to ignore the huge number of pickup trucks and SUVS which besides being slow as hell, are impossible to see around at intersections, turning lights etc. It seems like driving for what is essentially a milk truck (SUV) and being a redneck go hand in hand and we have a huge population of rednecks. None of this really bothered me, but I did notice all the damn tailgating that goes on as well. I have a friend who has lived here much longer and I asked him what was up with all the tailgating and he told me every one of these Rednecks fancies himself as Dale Earnhardt "The Intimidator". Suddenly what I had been witnessing made perfect sense. The thing I could never figure out is if you want to drive like your in a race, why drive something that has the aerodynamics of a bard door?!?
What is dangerous is the A-hole who is going slow in the fast lane or the old fart that cannot guess which pedal is the gas pedal. Yes tailgating is dangerous but so is going unreasonably slow, 1 driver going 50 MPH that is in front of about 6 others who are running late for work can cause a dangerous situation.
Besides that, the GP forgot that the way to defeat caltrops is simply to scoot up closer to the slow turd dropping those things. That way they bounce around and don't settle under the tires of the tail^H^H^H... err... drafting driver.
Well hell, y'all don't need no fancy "lazer" to find your way down to my Tailgater...shooot, you can smell my bar-b-q all the way from the fifty y'ard line and y'all don't need a "lazer" to know that these here ribs are the finest all Texas...Yeeeeehaaaw!
The fast lane is not the above-the-limit lane. When I'm in the fast lane because I'm overtaking the righthand traffic while doing the limit, I should not have some dickhead speeding behind me and chomping on my rear end. By the same token, when I'm doing 15km/h to overtake said slow cars, and said dickhead is *still* tailgating me, and then flips me the bird when I move over (when it's safe) to allow his passing, he deserves to have his license pulled.
So, either keep out of Illinois or take off that stupid paper hat, get off your high hobby-horse and get your sorry slavish-speed-limit-obeying butt into the right lane.
Comments should be like skirts. Short enough to keep your attention, but long enough to cover the subject
This would work well in Florida except that our police no longer enforce traffic laws.
Idiots tailgate when they can see over the car in front of them.
I had a small car and people frequently tailgated me even though I usually drive 10-15 mph over the speed limit. One day I rolled down the window and asked a tailgating bmw driving punk how fast I am supposed to drive....well my wife freaked because she was afraid I would end up getting shot ( road rage thing...also popular here in Florida).
I told my wife that there were two choices. I buy a gun or a larger vehicle.
So, I got a 6500 lb, 3/4 ton pickup with a Cummins diesel that smokes pretty good if I mash the peddle. For some reason I never have anyone tailgating anymore....
( and i get better mileage)
@vSpid Like, Whatever
Man, once I read the title I got really excited. I mean, who wouldn't love to have some frickin' lasers for "detecting" tailgaters?
This is only somewhat true. That left lane is also a safer lane to be in than the right lane (or two), especially in metropolitan areas. Why? People merge in and out of traffic from on- and off-ramps in the rightmost lane(s). Driving on a 60 mph highway in a lane where people are getting on and off at 25 mph is a good way to get picked off.
"I've seen people at 0.04 seconds. That is less than half a second," he said.
Which won't help you much if you're found to have criminal liabilities, nor prevent your license being pulled.
If that's your attitude, then you're an idiot. The left lane is for _passing_. That's the only time you're supposed to be in it. It's not your job to enforce the posted speed limit, that's the job of the police. All you end up doing is forcing people to pass you on the right. Which is itself dangerous, because that's where slow/merging traffic is supposed to be.
Try visiting Europe some time to find out how to drive properly...
It's pretty funny that when Montana went to no speed limits for four and a half years, their accident and death toll rate decreased. When there are no speed limits, people pay more attention to their surroundings then they do the speed limit and looking for cops. Guns don't kill people, stupid people kill people. Same for cars. Speeding in a car don't kill people, stupid people kill people. The highway engineers of Montana proved in a forty page document to the state government that removing the speed limit saved lives, but because of our screwed up political, corporate run government, they forced Montana to reinstate the speed limits. Same with these stupid red light cameras, at the same intersections, there were more accidents after the cameras then before. And we wonder why German pays more attention to tailgaters then speeders on the autobahns, interstradas, and the like.
Cheers.
That works on roads without a lot of traffic, but if you look at a busy 2-lane section of the interstate you might see a mile long line cars, trucks, semi's, houses being moved etc. all clogged up in the same place. So then you get the people who want to pass them: the ones who want to fly through at 90+mph combined with drivers want to go the speed limit and end up taking 10 minutes before they pass the whole mess and get back in the right lane. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but on a busy section of the road if you tried to actually use the passing lane *only* for passing you'd end up swerving in and out of the traffic all day. Conclusion: All highways/interstate sections need at least 3 lanes!
As someone else pointed out, it's a form of drafting so it saves fuel.
Plus, sometimes, if you're trying to help somebody out, you come at their bumper from an angle and then just a light tap and you slide into the lane. You spin the other guy out, and it he's any good, he can probably avoid hitting anything deadly.
It's a normal part of driving. If you can't handle it, you have no business on the road.
I want my car to snap pix of all the things that come close to it, including cars and people. All the time - while I'm driving, while I'm parked. And stream them to my server over the 3G airwaves and the Internet. Why should these attackers escape me when I'm least able to look at their license plate and memorize their digits/features?
And why should the cops be the only ones tracking license plates?
BTW, where's the webpage lookup for plate#s and VINs so I can find these assholes who cut me off, and send them a bill from my psychiatrist?
--
make install -not war
lazerz pew pew
Uploaded to my god damn moon toaster with teh lazerz ftw!
You can't take the sky from me.
People just need to use common courtesy when driving. If someone behind you wants to go faster than you then MOVE OVER. Even if you don't have an extra lane there is usually a shoulder.
If we all cooperate there is generally little reason for anyone to get angry or participate in road rage.
Rats would be more funny if they could fart.
When I run into a tailgater, I (... and don't criticize me if this seems wacked out or dangerous) I pull to another lane. Then they go on by.
And if I'm on a road that is 2 lanes, and I get a guy 2 inches from my bumper I (... get this...) I pull off the road for two seconds as soon as I can and let some other person deal with them as they rush on past..
Seriously, I want to concentrate on driving, not whether some nutball in back of me is going to slip up and ram into me because he's got anger management issues.
To my way of thinking, guys who slow down in front of tailgaters have the same mentality as the tailgaters, they only express it differently.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
The speed limit is the speed limit for the whole road, not just one lane. If you are doing 10 mph over the speed limit, regardless of which lane you are in, you are in violation of the law. There is no such thing as fast lane where you can go faster than the speed limit. The "do not pass on the right" comes from single lane roads, where passing on the right means passing on the shoulder. Pedestrians, cyclists, horseback riders, etc. could be using the shoulder and would not not be visible to the passing vehicle until they were fully onto the shoulder, at which point it would be too late. On a multi-lane highway, this safety issue does not exist, and passing on the right is fully acceptable (except where specifically prohibited).
Having said that, there are jerks in every lane. I usually drive one lane to the right of the leftmost lane, unless that is the rightmost lane. It seems like the real jerks avoid this lane.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Urban sprawl isn't just a Phoenix phenomenon. Everything you describe ('cept maybe the snowbird thing) is the same here in the Coruscant starter kit known as Dallas/Fort Worth and pretty much every large American city not named NYC.
I have found there are just two ways to go.
It all comes down to livin' fast or dyin' slow. -REK, Jr.
Detecting Tailgaters With Lasers
I was scrolling the main page quickly and read "Detecting ALIGATORS with lasers" instead and "laser-mounted sharks" detecting aligators just popped inside my head. I need to get out more.
Sometimes I wish that my car was equipped like the ones in Mario Kart, so I could drop a banana peel or turtle shell to clear out tailgaters.
"Her idea of wit is nothing more than an incisive observation humorously phrased and delivered with impeccable timing."
Suddenly all of the Bay States cried out in unison, "This wiked fucking sucks"
http://www.glumbert.com/media/roadblock
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
The speed limit is most certainly NOT an excuse to drive dangerously.
In Texas there is a law that states that if you fail to maintain the flow of traffic, you can be fined.
That means that if you are driving ONLY 1 mile per hour above the speed limit and at least 5 cars are going around you to pass you, you can be given a ticket for driving TOO SLOW even though you are going ABOVE the speed limit!
Why such a bizarre law in Texas?
Because we're not fucking shitheads. THE RULES OF THE ROAD ARE THERE TO PROMOTE SAFETY. IF, AT ANY TIME, ANY RULE WOULD BE DANGEROUS TO FOLLOW TO THE LETTER, DO NOT OBEY THAT RULE! YOUR FIRST PRIORITY WHILE DRIVING IS SAFETY.
Basically, you're ALLOWED to drive 65 in the fast lane ONLY if doing so would not create a dangerous situation. Due to the fact that many accidents have been attributed to unnecessary lane-changing, if you force multiple drivers to change lanes to overtake your vehicle, you are creating a dangerous driving situation and you can be held liable for ANYTHING that goes wrong in your personal nonviolent protest against speeders.
DO NOT DRIVE SLOW IN THE FAST LANE. EVER.
If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've been stuck in traffic, all due to one moron who is driving 55 in the passing lane. Arizona is one of the fastest growing states in the country, and it is high time they get with the program.
Another wonderful thing Arizona likes to teach their drivers is that when approaching a stop light or sign, you should be able to see the bottom of the tires of the car in front of you (vs. the license plate in most other states). Imagine the effect of that when there are 25 cars waiting at an intersection. My estimate is that equates to well over a car length between every car. The result; the last car in line has to travel twice as far to clear the intersection. Not only that, but add a left turn lane, and you get even more bottlenecks. Now apply this to a short light. It's maddening!
From a safety stand point, their laws are great, except for the fact that more and more people are being shot on the road nowadays. Sooner or later, the state is going to have to wake up and realize that they are not "small-town USA" anymore.
Spending money on something to detect tailgating is a joke. People that need to be ticketed for tailgating are INCHES off the vehicle in front of them at speeds anywhere from 40 to 100 mph so nothing hi-tech needed here. I have been rearended twice in four years (Cal 1, AZ 1) and neither time was the other driver tailgating me. Both times I was setting at a stop and the other driver failed to notice the stopped traffic and hit me at speed. Getting drivers to put down the cell phone and not let live rabbits loose in the car (for real) seem to be more of a problem than tailgating or speeding.
As a general rule, I don't mind people following me a little close since I try and look far enough ahead that I can brake early. I do hate having to tailgate the car in front of me just to keep people from continuously passing me on the right and merging into my already minimal braking area.
Failing to yield is the single most dangerous trend on the road. This really ticks me off because these drivers are never ticketed and they are rarely victims of the hazardous conditions they create. A lot of people are getting hurt and killed because of these selfish people. I can appreciate their point. They are (usually) driving the speed limit while camped in the leftmost lane. However this isn't a perfect world and it's a fact that a majority of the drivers today are going 10-15 over the posted speeds so like the sign says "Slower traffic keep right".
If you're interest in more emperical data from someone who recently racked up 25,000 miles on I-5,I-8, and I-10 over the last 4 months I'm happy to share......
-Ralph
I live in Tempe, which borders Phoenix. Until yesterday, when it was stolen, I drove a '68 VW Camper. (White with a black stripe 'round the middle, pop-top, AZ Lic 828-HNG. Today or tomorrow I'll be posting details here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_cat.php?cat _id=53.)
And the tailgaters here are a menace you simply wouldn't believe.
I've been driving to a gig at 7:00 on a Sunday morning. I'm in the right-hand lane on a five-lane freeway, going the limit. There aren't any other cars for a quarter mile either side of me...except for a fucking asshole in an SUV yakking on a cellphone five feet off my rear bumper.
And then said fucking asshole will pass me on the right through a gore point.
No, I'm not exaggerating. I've actually had that happen to me. And the exact same thing regularly happens, without the Sunday morning nobody-else-on-the-road setting.
Frankly, I'm absolutely amazed I'm still alive.
What I also find fascinating is that nearly every single fucking asshole who tailgates me is yakking on a cellphone and will turn down literally dozens of opportunities to pass me, sometimes for miles on end....
Sure makes me wish I had a rocket launcher, and the (lack of a) moral standard to use it....
Cheers,
b&
All but God can prove this sentence true.
No one else has ever slammed on the brakes and sued for neck injury? Come on.
You all had me going.
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
Do you think all the other people behind you who weren't tailgating deserved to be punished too?
Driving doesn't have to be about making the other fucker pay. That attitude is why I hate driving so much. It even affects me sometimes. I've had that angry feeling boil up and done stupid things several times, but I'm not proud of it. The thing I'm least proud of is the tailgater who got me so angry/scared that I popped down a gear causing him to rear-end me. Yeah, he totalled an expensive car and was 100% "at fault" but I felt kinda bad about it. I do wonder if he still tailgates so badly.
Man, you really need that seminar!
This is not common enough, even on /.
You are reading a copy of my copyrighted post.
Tailgating an 18-wheeler is one of the safer forms of tailgating. The truck can't stop faster than your car. Even if the stop should catch you off guard and you impact, it won't likely throw the truck off the road (due to mass), or your car (due to being pinned under the trailer). Much better than, say, a GMC Suburban tailgating a Chevy Sprint.
The worst thing about tailgating, as I see it, is that it requires much more attention, both from the tailgater and the driver in front. That means much less reserve capacity for important things like obstacle avoidance - obstacles like potholes, deer, pedestrians..
Good points. But it's not the "fast lane" ... it's the "passing lane". If you're not passing in the "passing lane", you're obstructing the right of way ... this is a traffic violation in most states, regardless of speed.
I try to be a safe driver. So, I drive with the intention of leaving a couple of car lengths between me and the car in front. What happens? Someone sees that as an invitation to merge on over!! Next thing I know my "safe space" is down to inches.
The key is to not have so much space that it's an invitation to invade. You can still be a pretty safe distance back without letting too many people in.
Another thing to do is temporarily close up the space a little when a likely space-filler is coming up on your right - you don't even need to really fill the space, just accelerate a bit so it looks like you are about to close it up. Then a lot of people will not come in. But don't open up too much of a gap behind you either or they'll just fill that - and tailgate you.
Of course, do let people if if they use the turn signal - people that are just looking to move lanes randomly won't really use a turn signal anyway so you are not letting in the "wrong" people very often.
Tailgaters are the thing I most fear on the highway, I have personally avoided several accidents by being observant as to tailgaters behind me and knowing where runoff points were on a road when traffic came to a sudden halt in front of me and the guy behind didn't have enough room to stop. One of them slid to a halt about halfway through where my car would have been if I had not gone completely off the side of the road (happily where it was safe to do so).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
the percentage of traffic violations commiteed that are by women increases drastically.
I was looking at your sig's website and found some hilarious things. Do you suffer from "Death and Buttock Numbness?" "Death and Inattention?" "Death and Limping?"
Man, you really need that seminar!
There is too much of an emphasis on ticketing in the US. We need to work on a 3 strikes your out principle. #1) Warning #2) Ticket #3) License suspended for 1 month. Mandatory safe driving class before you can get another one. Driving is not a right. Its a privilege. When 95% of drivers on US highways are breaking the law its time for tougher enforcement. 43,443 people were killed on US roads in 2005 and 2.7 Million were injured. The expense for these accidents in medical care, lost wages, cleanup, etc, run in the billions, if not trillions, every year.
No, by heading off to the side - most roads unless you are in Europe have enough space at the side of the road (a sholder or whatever) that you easily have enough space to get off and let the fool behind you panic stop right through where you would have been. I have avoided several accidents in just this way - the key is always going off to the side, it's the only thing that will save you.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
as using bratwurst and beer, and I speak from experience.
you know, one which determines the distance between the following vehicle and itself, uses speed, road conditions, and weather reports and if it's found to be too close it burns a hole in the following vehicles radiator. ;-) And to not be such a 'bad guy', the system could flash a strobe light 3 quick bursts(aka warning shots ) before letting the laser loose. ;-)
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
In Texas at least, there are plenty of roads with 55+ speed limits where no lane is designated as a passing lane.
Instead, it's just socially accepted that the left lane is always for faster traffic, and is thus, the "fast lane."
But then in Texas there are also plenty of long, long roads where it just wouldn't work to have a lane for passing only.
If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
Your ignorance astounds me, but I won't let it bother me. I'll exercise the right I have in Colorado to pass on the right to get past you. Many people here insist on driving in the fast lane 5-10mph below the limit because it's easier for them - they don't have to deal with people entering the highway in the right-most lane.
Even though it may be legal in your state to drive at the speed limit in the left lane, it's not clever. If you are doing it solely to annoy other drivers, then you do not deserve to have a licence. You are a danger and a nuisance.
To correct you, the fast lane is for overtaking, and is an additional lane to use when the others become full. That is all. You have no business being there if the other lanes to the right of you are empty.
I live in Atlanta too, and you're exactly right: the slow lane goes 70, the fast lane goes 80, and the HOV lane goes 70 again (except when it goes 55 because of a bus). And, of course, half the reason the slow lane goes 70 (instead of 55) is that drivers wanting to go 90 are passing on the right (especially going in and out of the HOV lane because of the aforementioned damn slowpokes and busses!).
Of course, if people would simply get out of the damn left lane and HOV lane unless they're actually going faster than everybody else, there would be much less of a problem.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
So, I drive with the intention of leaving a couple of car lengths between me and the car in front.
You're following too closely. Avoiding accidents is more about time than distance. You should be leaving about 2 seconds between you and another car if you want to be safe. 55 miles per hour is about 80 feet per second, so you should have 160 feet between you and another car. Cars are about 16 feet long or less, So that's about 10 car lengths.
At 55 miles per hour, 2 car lengths is only
AccountKiller
Actually according to the law of several states (MI, TX, and MD to my knowledge), the only APPROPRIATE speed is to go with the flow of traffic -- even if traffic is going over the speed limit! It is drastic deviations from the speed at which traffic is moving that cause the most problems. You should be going the speed limit, but if the limit is 65 and everyone else is going 90 you will only be making things worse by staying at 65. Actually, when I was in MD I travelled a stretch of highway where this was exactly the case. Nobody did less than 80 MPH, the middle lane was 90 and the left lane was for those who wanted to go fast. Sticking to the speed limit would have been insanely stupid, and any fool tootling along muttering "well I'm obeying the law" was, in fact, wrong. And dangerous.
The enemies of Democracy are
Now that is what we need! pewpewpew
If you just mount the laser on the back of your vehicle and increase the laser power based on your vehicle speed, then those pesky tailgaters will find a hole in their radiator or, even better, right through their engine block.
Get rid of everything Micro and Soft: Buy Viagra and/or Linux
You're right ... it depends on the state's specific traffic law language. I still prefer "passing lane" regardless, as it doesn't invoke the thought that "I'm going to get there the fastest if I use the 'fast lane'".
Define "appropriate". In most American jurisdictions, speed limits are set artificially low. (I.e., proper traffic engineering is to follow the 80th percentile rule for setting the speed limit.)
This also makes it harder for most people to realize the purpose behind the "slow traffic keep right" laws, which is to set up a speed gradient across different lanes, with all cars in a given lane travelling at the same approximate speed.
Speed limits don't save lives; those speed gradients do. Raising freeway limits to an appropriate level, or removing them entirely, would significantly reduce freeway fatalities. It's why Montana saw a large drop in fatal accidents when they removed the speed limits, and a similar huge jump when they were forced to reinstate them.
No no no, passing on the right is wrong on multi-lane highways too: Because the driver's seat is on the left side of the car.
Your visibility when merging to the right is much less than your visibility when merging left.
The idea behind this is that when changing lanes you shouldn't have to worry about someone roaring up on your right.
Of course you do have to worry about it, because of asshats, but in general the more people that remember and stick to this rule the fewer accidents.
I'd suggest in addition to this metamoderation. If you mod too many drivers unfairly you don't get as many mod points. Drivers with excellent "carma" could drive at +2.
Man, you really need that seminar!
The road is a bubble sort. Assholes get to bubble forward, sensible drivers pull back. This is good because, coincidentally, forward is where all the accidents are.
I have discovered a truly remarkable
In this vein, I remember seeing some remark about unofficial "no parking" signs using the phrase "Polite Notice." Turns out you can find a number of samples online (mostly on the first page -- it seems to go off topic once it hits page two).
No, it's speeding. The highway patrol is free to ticket or not ticket at their discretion, and they can also drive whatever speed limit they desire while on duty (without being reckless of course). Just because everyone else is speeding, doesn't mean it's legal, regardless of whether or not there's a cop with a ticket gun out there.
Just start ticketing people who brake for no reason on the highway.
In fact, there's hardly ever a reason to brake on the highway.
If you have to brake on the highway, either you did something wrong, or the person ahead of you did.
If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
I swear I never sped up, but by the time he realized he couldn't swing over in time, it was too late. He squalled tires vainly, came within inches of swerving into me, collided full on with the semi's rear.
The over-confident prick deserved it.
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
I like the pop bottle out the sunroof at your windshield trick. Backs off punk kids who think they have balls like you really quick.
You'll just register as one long vehicle.
Squirrel!
This is all good and dandy, but the description of tailgating in the traffic law is so vague and prone to interpretation that the law application is certainly arbitrary. Imagine following the speed limit regulations in a world where no car has built-in speedometers.
Tailgating is dangerous. However, to penalize it properly, the cars should have some sort of standardized sensor (based on radar or something), that lets you know when you're too close. If, despite the warning, you're still too close, a ticket for tailgating is warranted. Very similar to checking your speed and deciding whether driving with 80 on a 65 freeway is worth.
To me, this measure looks like a HP cash cow and will do nothing to eliminate the tailgating problem.
Tailgaters frustrate people because they don't know what to do to get them to back off. It's really quite simple...
When someone is following too close, gently beigin releasing the accelerator over the course of just a few seconds. Slowing down too quickly is dangerous, but gradually slowing is extremely safe.
They usually will go around, or get the message and back off. Until they do, continue slowing down, until the (short) distance they've left is a safe distance at the speeds you're traveling, even if you have to drive 20MPH on a 55MPH road for a couple miles until they get the hint.
Do not accelerate, or continuing at your current speed when being tailgated, either is very dangerous. Also, it should be noted that unmarked police cruisers regularly tailgate to try and get you to speed (they say it's for pacing your vehicle, but a safe distance would work just as well in that case), so accelerating when tailgated is also likely to get you ticketed for speeding.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Do we really need a machine for this? I can see a tailgater with my eyes.
if you don't drive very close to bumper of the car directly in front of you, you can expect a slew of motorists to agressively (and dangerously) cut you off sans turn signal
Good grief, what sort of empty roads do you drive on anyway, that there is any possibility of leaving the leftmost lane open?
Guess you've never driven anywhere where there is any actual traffic. When all lanes of the 405 North are full no one is going to leave a lane open "just for passing".
By "full" we mean four-six lanes in each direction, all going at 80mph, all way too close to the bumper of the car in front of them.
Even at 2-3 am, you won't find few enough cars to "leave a lane open" as you suggest.
Dealing with so little traffic as you do, you should relax. No point in getting pissed at nothing.
Why, when blinding tailgaters with lasers already works so well?
And I hope they spend all day writing tailgating tickets, especially if the one in front is doing at least the speed limit. I've got no problem at all with people flying down the highway. Have at it. I'd even favor raising the speed limit to let them go even faster.
But nail them to wall for tailgating, especially trucks. That's not just rude, it's damn dangerous. The really annoying ones are the trucks that ride your tail, then pass, only to drop way below the speed limit on hill so you can rinse, lather, and repeat for miles. Makes me want to drag that sob out of the cab and beat the living hell out of them. Threatening me with 80,000 lbs of metal going 70 mph is one thing, but threatening my family with that same weapon should be an automatic CDL suspension.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
I'd be all for that
Do you have a flag?
I want a paintball gun and some paintballs filled with glass etching cream
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
A partial answer to this and various other problems would be better communication among drivers. Wouldn't it be helpful if you could tell the guy behind you that he's too close and making you nervous? You might explain that you can't go any faster because the vehicles ahead of you aren't, or that you are driving slowly for a reason and will pull over to let him pass as soon as you can do so safely. Existing communication systems are very primitive and limiting: (a) I'm planning on turning left/changing lanes to the left; (b) I'm planning on turning right/changing lanes to the right; (c) I'm braking. You can't even distinguish between "I'm just keeping myself from speeding up any further on this hill" and "I'm coming to a dead stop in order to make a right-angle turn off". I'm not sure what would be a better system. Maybe a more articulated system of lights, or maybe something like CB, but set up so that you could send the message to, e.g., the person behind you.
The closest thing I've experienced to this is on logging roads in British Columbia, where everybody has a logging truck radio. On active logging roads, you are required to announce your position, but on some roads there is a lot of back and forth on the radio and it can be quite helpful.
The courts require something quantitive. A police office saying "the accused was driving real close to the car in front of him" doesn't cut it. The courts want to know precisely how close, and how the police officer knows this.
I'm going to be the contrarian here. Most tailgaters I see (including myself, of course) have legitimate gripes. If you have nobody in front of you and a queue of cars behind you, chances are you are going too slow!
I always try to be aware of my surroundings, including looking in the rear-view mirror. If I'm in the left lane and there is someone approaching from the rear, it's easier and safer to reserve moral judgement about their character and do the smart thing--pull to the right at the earliest possible opportunity and let him overtake me. Why can't everyone manage to do that? See, when I happen to be the one in an unusual hurry, 9 times out of 10, the guy in front of me in the left lane is totally oblivious of my presence. To wake him up, I either have to drive dangerously close, pass on the right, or hit him with a few high-beam blasts. It's a no-win situation for both of us.
Same with a single-lane road. If you simply must drive slow and enjoy the view, have the courtesy to pull to the shoulder when people approach who actually have a destination they are looking forward to reaching.
Sure, there's the occasional idiot who gets in the left lane and tails everybody within inches, making them all pull over one by one, but these tailgaters are in the minority.
Please hang up the phone, be aware of your surroundings (especially the people behind you), and keep up with the flow of traffic. In short, drivers should be participants, not obstacles.
Now I'm lost. A thread about driving! What bad analogy do I use???
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Hit the breaks as you come up to it, saving yourself a speeding ticket and giving the guy behind you a tailgating ticket.
The "slow lane" is for people who aren't actively passing people. The "fast lane" should more appropriately be called the "passing lane", and is for people who are passing. They should move over, pass, and get back into the "slow lane" until they catch up to the next person that is driving slower than them.
/usr/games/fortune
One trick is to quickly brake ever so slightly and throw your rear fog lights on at the same time making it look like you've slammed your brakes on hard. That tends to sort the men from the boys.
because I immediately pictured several people chillin in a parking lot by a stadium. Then I pictured someone walking around with a laser "detecting" these people.
It has been said that 63% of all statistics are made up
Sometimes the problem is not the tailgater, it's the driver in the front . . .
Here in the midwest, it's possible to have a two or three lane highway and have all two or three lanes taken up by people driving the *exact* same speed. Half the time, one of them will pull out in front of you (in the left lane) if you try to pass them. I never can figure out if it's just a little passive agressive behavior or if they have some issue with my speed (although often enough I'm in the speed limit when this happens). Regardless, these people haven't figured out the left lane is the passing lane . . .
When I'm being tailgated, I go the speed limit, and not one bit above or below (even if I'd been doing 5 over before). I'm not about to let the person behind me make me speed up and make me responsible for an accident. I flash my break lights at the person as if to say "back off" and I try to give them an opportunity to pass if that's what they want to do, but if they're going to stay on my tail, I'm not going to play their game, I'm going to play it safe.
If you ever wondered why some drivers insist on driving below the speed limit on multilane highways in the leftmost lane (or just driving slower than the cars around) I tell you a story that will enlighten you.
I sat in the passenger seat of a car once while we drove on a 5 lane highway in the leftmost lane with speed +-2 of the limit. I started to feel uncomfortable when the second car passed from the right (we could have headed for a left exit I thought earlier). This kept repeating, and moreover the other drivers looked at us when passing from the right, they could make eye contact only with me of course.
I was taught that if you are passed from the right it is as being "shamed", like a big note stuck on your car announcing that you are a jerk. So, finally I could not take this anymore, and asked the driver why we not move over to the right. The driver said: " I belong to this lane." I knew that I do not belong in that car...
"45 is the absolute limit under optimal conditions. "
Yeah, if you hit 50, your car might burst into flames and you'll kill children, and probably hurt the environment too!
Man, you're so cute when you try to across all stern and serious and crap like that. It's like a Little Rascals episode.
so I was driving down the road one day after dark and I ended up getting stuck next to three big rings who were all doing between 65 and 70 in the slow lane of a two lane highway. So as I am slowly passing them at just over 70 this person starts tailgating me. So I tap my brakes, trying to get them to back off. No luck. Finally I pass this train of big rigs and get over, and this guy goes flying by at like 75. So I slam my hand, one finger up, against the window.
The next day I walk into my math class and my math professor says: "Hey, were you the one who flipped me off last night?"
I stand there stunned for a minute, figure out what the hell he is talking about, and then I respond "Oh, were you the asshole tailgating me?"
True story
It's not saving any greenhouse gasses.. maybe from YOUR tailpipe.. but more are coming out of the tailpipe in front of you.
ps- that vehichles fuel bill has gone up as well..
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Freeze 'em.
---GEC
I'm but the humble pupil, seeking to snatch the scratchbuilt pebble from the master's fully articulated hand
Ticket anyone driving on the fast lane that is not overtaking.
Slow drivers on the fast lane are the problem, as a bunch of people here have pointed out (only to be moderated as trolls -- get a clue mods). The fast lane is for overtaking traffic. You have no bussiness being there if you're driving slower or the same speed as the cars on the other lanes.
Road rage episodes, while not excusable, usually happen out of frustration of this special type of slow drivers. Don't know what their mindset is, I can only guess that they have some sort of selfrighteousness complex that allows them to think that, if they believe they are driving correctly they're granted the right to interfere with others that in their view are driving incorrectly.
Remove slow drivers on the fast lane and you'll not only make roads safer but improve traffic as well.
The very day these helmets get Aussie approval I'm getting one: http://www.reevu.com/
I need to do the chicken thing with my Dainese armored leather jacket to see straight back in my GSXR600k4's mirrors.
That's why I always without fail filter to the front of the traffic to avoid the possibility of being rear ended. Sure my bike is bright yellow with intense red leds but still I'm much smaller than a car. And cars get rear ended often enough --- this is potentially fatal on a bike.
When coming up on slow traffic that I can't comfortably split into I will leave tonnes of space to the front, and drive watching the rear mirror until I see that the driver behind is slowing down.
I for one welcome our new laser equipped tailgater booking overlords.
With open arms.
ISO certified == THX certified
Internet link of the year. Congratulations. :D
Had the CC out already...
If the minivan going 50mph 5 ft. in front of you rear ends a stationary tractor trailer, you can use zero as a decent approximation of the deceleration time. Thats part of what you need to consider for stopping time separation distance. Of course, no one in the world follows proper separation.
Assume the car approaching from behind will not stop. You probably could have avoided that accident.
Several years ago, I was idling at a red light in Idaho during the Christmas shopping season. Traffic was greater than usual, so the line at the stop light had 20+ cars, much more than normal. Screeching tires and a split-second later the back-end of my Camry was smushed to bits. The driver had just barely touched their brakes, but I thought that I could have avoided it if I had been paying more attention.
For a while I was careful to notice any vehicle that approached quickly. Shortly I realized that it was futile. Too many drivers race to their position and slam on the brakes at the last second.
It's impossible to detect danger when so many drivers incorporate it as a regular part of their driving behavior.
Daniel
I live here and man am I happy to see this, I am tired of asshole tailgaters. Sometimes you're in the left lane for a reason and to be honest I ALREADY speed enough as it is, so the tailgater behind me is USUALLY the asshole weaving in and out of traffic. If I see someone wants to pass behind me and isn't totally tailgating I will usually try to move, but the moment you tailgate me, I slam on my breaks every minute or so until they finally go AROUND me.
I'm also tired of people that drive so damn slow on the freeways. They ALWAYS have to move over into the left lanes and 20 people will whip around them and they still won't budge. People that do that should be banned from the road. If you're not going to speed like there's no tomorrow, you do NOT belong in the left lane. Period. Drive slow with everyone else in the right lanes and quit holding of traffic like an asshat.
That being said, I just wish it was harder to get a license. People here drive like retards and it is really just annoying to have to deal with all these idiots. Maybe the state should require everyone to take a GOOD driving class or something and start handing out more tickets for driving like a pregnant cow. Weaving in and out of traffic in a blind rage while going 100 miles an hour is not driving well, nor is stopping in the middle of the road to look at a god damn accident. Wait to see it on the news and move your damn car, its not like this is some new crazy thing, someone being in an accident, espcially since none of you can drive. Chances are that based on the fact that everyone here generally drives like a moron, you've probably seen a few accidents and there's nothing new to see so just move along.
"Those who would sacrifice essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - BenF
Urban sprawl may not be just a Phoenix phenomenon, but Phoenix does it better than anyone else. D/FW, L.A. and others are very bad, but Phoenix is extraordinary. And so many people here are opposed to the impending light-rail system. It's painful, I tell you.
Also, cyclists are getting taken out here like clay pigeons. See this: http://azbrumbys.com/
I have designed a 'water cannon' that is triggered by a simple switch housed in the cab of my pickup truck. The 'water cannon' is a small device that is powered by a small compressed air tank, and when the button is pushed inside the cab, a servo opens the valve to the air tank and propels 2 liters of water up over the tailgate and gives the tailgater a nice shower. This works particularly well when the tailgater happens to be driving a convertible. I am not sure about the legality of this...........and I suspect someday that I may do this to the wrong person and get shot......hopefully it is with a paint ball, and then I can return fire!
I often thought about rigging up my brake lights to a switch so I could make it appear to the tailgater that I've slammed on my brakes without actually doing so (because actually hitting the brakes could end up with the tailgater ramming into me). It's almost certainly an illegal modification and if someone ended up dead (such as the tailgater panics, hits the brakes and loses control and hits another car) because of it, I'd have a hard time dealing with that. So I've given my car to charity. You all can have the highway wars. I live in the city and walk or take transit everywhere now. It's amazing how much lower my stress level is and how little I miss the places I use to drive to now that I've found lots of new places to go to. I know most people don't want that, but it works for me.
Someday the headline will be "destroying tailgaters with lasers."
Maybe once GPS and traffic cameras see all the streets, we'll get tickets and insurance rates not based off individual violations, but more accurate "safeness levels," not based off speed limits or no u-turn signs, but off of how many times you actually endangered anyone. That's really gonna save my bill to the Department of Revenue a TON.
Quickly Circle! Stop writing anything interesting!
"Da ist ein Technölüst in mein Unterpanten!"
...it's either idiots who were never properly instructed on driving/passing etiquette, or assholes who just refuse to get the fuck out of the way.
Lesson 1: The leftmost lane is for passing. All those signs on the freeways that read SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT weren't painted and posted for your edification...they're the law. When you just drive along in this lane, you are just as guilty of criminal activity as someone exceeding the posted speed limit.
Lesson 2: Someone blipping their high beams a couple times as they approach you is NOT being a prick. They're politely informing you in the most expeditious manner available (it's not like they can walk up and tap on your window, you know) that you are obstructing the flow of traffic.
The fact that they had to flash their lights at you in the first place is a testament against you. It means that you either didn't have enough situational awareness to spot their approach before they flashed you, or that you saw them coming and (for whatever reason) you decided that you weren't going to move aside. At this point, you're looking like an idiot, or a prick, or both.
So, what to do now? The ball is in your court...either speed up or move aside and let them pass.
I simply cannot understand why some people refuse to yield the way. You don't get brownie points for trying to prevent other drivers from speeding. Furthermore, you have absolutely NO idea what is motivating the driver behind you...there could be a medical emergency involved, and your prissy ass might be impeding their progress to a hospital. Why take the risk to yourself, your vehicle, and possibly others' lives? If you just get the fuck out of the way already, the tailgating "problem" disappears.
Long rant cut short: there is NO SUCH THING as a tailgater. There are only pious, self-righteous assholes who refuse to get out of the way of people who have the audacity to move faster than them.
Drive the speed limit in the left hand lane! Cops can ticket you if you're going 10 miles over the limit, even if you're driving the speed of traffic (had it happen). Do you know any other law where people get so pissed at you just for following it, and forcing them to follow it too?
Speeding regulations aren't laws so much as a lottery in reverse.
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
I don't believe most student driver are brought on the highway, at least based on the numbers of people I see trying to merge at only 30 MPH. Unfortunately, far too many people change lanes without using turn signals, or illegally block the passing lane in a vain attempt to slow others.
So far, you're all wrong.
For starters, this 'if it hits a brick wall or stationary tractor trailer it'll stop in 0' thing is stupid. If you are going 50 MPH 5 feet behind a car when you notice the car suddenly stops because it has hit a stopped tractor trailer, you are going to die. But if there is *NO* car in front of you when you notice the tractor trailer stopped 15 feet in front of you, you're STILL going to die. The problem is you're not noticing a stopped tractor trailer. When you've got 15 feet to stop your car, how far ahead of you the car that's going to hit the trailer first is doesn't matter. Even if there isn't a car at all, you're still toast.
So first problem is, none of you have properly understood the problem. We've already established that if the car in front of you stops because it hits something, following distance IS COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. Either you are able to stop your car before hitting that object or you're not. Hell, having a car in front of you might even buy you some extra time if it pushed the stopped car forward or out of the way.
If the car in front of you decelerates, there are two things you need following distance for: Covering the time you're going faster than the car in front of you because it's started decelerating and you havn't reacted yet, and covering the time the car in front of you is going slower than you are because it's already decelerated some AND may be able to decelerate faster than you can at all.
For example, a motorcycle following a tractor trailer needs little following distance, because it can stop much quicker than the tractor trailer can. But a tractor trailer following a motor cycle needs a LOT of following distance, because the motor cycle can decelerate much quicker than the tractor trailer.
To compute needed following distance correctly, your following distance must be the greater of:
Max Rate of Deceleration of the Lead Vehicle * (following driver's reaction time)^2 **
and
(Following Vehicle Stop Distance - Leading Vehicle Stop Distance + Following Vehicle Velocity * Following Vehicle's Driver's Reaction Time) ***
So, at 5 MPH, 5 feet might be sufficient for a motorcycle following a tractor trailer, but definitely not the other way around.
** This is how much farther the following car will travel than the lead car before the driver reacts and stops decelerating. The quicker the lead vehicle can decelerate, the more space you need to react and start decelerating before you hit the lead vehicle.
*** This is the total stopping distance needed. Note that if the following vehicle decelerates quicker than the lead vehicle, only the first equation is relevant - if you havn't hit the lead car by the time you start decelerating, you're not going to. But if the lead vehicle decelerates quicker than the following vehicle, then you need extra following distance to absorb the difference in stopping distance.
paintball
You mean something like this:
http://www.alzmedia.com/flash/view/yesandno
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
How about the cause of most of that tailgating? Those podunk slowpokes going 5mph below the speed limit in the fast lane... Seriously - they're as much a hazard as the tailgater. Move over if you're not passing someone, dammit!
I like the .32 semiautomatic rounds fired through your front fenderwell as I'm forced to pass people like you on the right. Usually takes all the piss and vinegar right out of little anonymous cowards like you really quickly.
Now, to avoid the collision /and/ avoid moving into cross-traffic, he would have had to do a /hard/ left or right turn, from a standing start. Not impossible, but that would have taken seconds to execute. Not enough time, I think, to complete the maneuver before impact. You'd have to:
Having avoided a collision in the snow when some chucklehead came up on a stopped line I was in when he was going way too fast, I would say there is plenty of time to complete that move. If you are paying attention you should have a good five to ten seconds to go wherever you like because you see a car coming from behind, and you can tell when they are not paying attention/going too fast to really stop.
If you hear tires sqealing, it's too late. You must look and react before then, but it can be done. That is defensive driving and as I've said, I have avoided several incidents that WERE rear end collisions before I acted - some of them from dead stops.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Changing lanes doesnt always. I had a guy tailgating me and I changed lanes hi then followed me and stopped in the middle of a 2 lane highway and got a gun and proceeded to follow me. of course as soon as he saw me get my cell phone and call the police he drove away.
This is a real story and you cant always avoid road rage no matter what you do.
In Kuwait, we're fined 50 K.D. (almost $150) for going over speed AND we pay 10 extra K.D. per 10 km -> going 120 on a 80km street = 50 + 40 = 90 K.D. ($270)
;p
:: If people are tailtagging me, I just hit the brakes hard & let them crumble in fear! -- The law here says: If you're hit from the back, it's ALWAYS their fault.
The gov. profiting quite well too, since they're abusing the idea of installing cameras, so instead of installing them in a visible place to force drivers to slow down, they HIDE them and police officers back at the HQ monitoring, holding popcorn, yell out "GOTCHA!"
So, now, whenever I'm in a new street, I got by the law and watch for cams & incase I see one, I point at it and do the "GOTCHA" face, just in case
Now, tailtagging!
I don't like it, but sometimes it has to be done & there's nothing more effective than an off-road vehicle with Xenon lights! (and it's so cute when the dude in front of you is bald! Hehehehe)
P.S.
Mod points are a dangerous tool. Abuse them wisely.
Dear Chris,
Does a lot of life seem terribly confusing to you? Like... there's something going on, like a joke or something, and nobody told you about it?
Anyway, I'm dying to ask. Is "Chris" a girls name or a boys name?
As an Arizona citizen directly affected by this, I say about time!
I don't think you get it, it's strictly about safety. The car behind me WILL stay the safe, peroper following distance behind my car for the speed at which we are traveling -- if they won't use the safe distance for our speed, I will use the safe speed for their distance.
... strictly safety man, strictly safety.
Nothing personal
NYC is pretty spread, too - remember that NYC isn't *just* Manhattan - there's Bklyn, Queens, Bronx, and Staten Island. And the really urbanized area extends at least 15 miles outside of city borders into NJ, NY, and Long Island. Then another 20 miles of suburbs.
-b.
* Speeds of 85+ are the norm on I-10 (and 17 and 101/202/60/51) when congestion permits it.
Yup. I do just shy of 100 miles a day up & down I-10/202/101 every day (50 miles each way) and I can confirm that we really are too spread out for our own good. Hopefully the light rail will help with that somewhat, but...
That said, several other comments here are right about good driving habits--let those idiots that want to pass, even if they're being a total jerk about it, don't tailgate, and keep your speed reasonable for conditions (going 85 on I-10 is perfectly reasonable if it's not congested).
In fact, making sure you don't tailgate is also a good way to help speed your way through those "traffic waves" or slowdowns you see on I-10 at times. They persist after the accident or lane restriction is removed because people end up driving too closely once everyone gets stopped and then have to hit the brakes a lot, creating nasty ripples along the road that take ages to die down.
I would much rather have a couple of high powered lasers facing to the rear. That way I can deal with those idiot tailgaters myself. A couple in front would be good, too, if they are powerful enough to vaporize that asshole doing 50 in the fast lane.
-- Will program for bandwidth
OK, so two conspiracy ideas.
First, you're getting on the highway and merging into traffic. The guy that ends up behind you was fine with the previous person in front of him, but when you merge in between them now he's screwed.
Second, one cop mans the spacing gun and another merges in front of you just as the gun checks on your distance to the new car in front of you.
Hopefully after the first few court things they'll find a need to define what is OK and what is not, and figure out that there may be some situations where measuring that (like merging traffic before there's time to spread out again) that this won't be blatantly evil.
It's detecting the ones with lasers. =D
"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." -Jesus Christ The Lord's Prayer
All you folks making jokes about brake-checks, ball bearings, spotlights, etc. as ways to deter tailgaters: Don't. The vast majority of you are joking about it, I hope. It's the small fraction who aren't who worry me. Doing ANYTHING to intentionally distract another driver is assault. Depending on the state, it can be FELONY assault (or a crime with essentially the same elements but a different name). So maybe you're tempted to tap the brakes and let the jerk know he's too close. If he slams on his brakes in a panic, spins out and wrecks himself and four other cars, killing a car full of people whose only fault was to be nearby your mutually idiotic behavior, you're the one who is going to jail for vehicular manslaughter, or worse. Sorry - didn't mean to go into a diatribe, but this is one recurring topic where I see people letting their imaginations get ahead of their common sense.
and I can explain the tailgating issue here succinctly (although I think mythosaz did a fairly good job of summing up many of the issues).
We have a lot of elderly drivers here -- we like to call them snowbirds. It gets really cold up north in Minnesota or Wisconsin so they all come here during the winter and relocate for the season. Now I really like older people but the reality is that many of them have a hard time keeping a normal pace on the roads here. Phoenix is just as bad as Los Angeles, in fact you could Phoenix L.A. traffic in training, but I digress.
Tailgating is a response to people blocking the passing lane. The reason this is done is a stimulus response to driving behind slower impeding traffic. Drivers here by nature do not want to let someone ahead of them because when they have they have been rewarded by some white haired driver with Montana plates driving 15 MPH in a 45 zone.
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
Perhaps YOU should do the math. After ~35mph, there is really negligable difference in automobile accidents (from a risk point of view, as in percentage of and severity of injury or death), hence why impact tests typically stop after 35mph.
All you're doing is pissing off the guy behind you even more, making him more reckless. If you don't know how to safely handle that situation, you should not be on the roads, let alone in the passing lane. (Hint: Get the fuck out of the psycho's way, before you cause an accident.)
I) Someone tailgating you?
Step 1) Run your window sprayer... and let it run... and run. When they get tired of the spattering on their window, they finally move.
Step 2) That didn't work? Slam on your brakes for a split second and scare the hell out of them.
Step 3) Now they're mad? When they go to pass, swerve sharply to scare them again. Now follow them until they get so scared they drive 90 on a back road to get away.
2) Someone going slow in the left or left-most lane (NOT counting HOV, HOV is not the "Fast lane", it's the HOV lane!)?
Step 1) When you finally see they won't move, go around them on the right and then do the things above to them once in front.
Step 2) Once in front of them again, simply stop in front of them over and over. Not hard, do it slowly. But make them scared. They won't pass you for fear of chase.
Now, there are reasons some people don't drive the speed limit:
1) Freshly rebuilt engine, drive no faster than 50 for first 1000 miles. SO STAY IN THE RIGHT LANE!
2) Weather is nasty. Drive in a middle or right lane. Let the morons in their "invincible SUV's" fly by on the left and kill them selves up ahead.
3) Other technical difficulties.
But never ever ever ever drive slow because you are impared some how. If you are impared, stay off the dang road all together! This means you, you drunk! And you, you druggie! And the dork on cold meds. And the guy the Doctor told not to drive for (insert problem here). This means you, Grandma & Grandpa! etc etc.
If *YOU* aren't ready to be fully a god behind the wheel, don't get behind the wheel.
You need to be ready to swerve, brake, accelerate, dodge, down shift, e-brake, turn in the direction of the skid (Thanks Cosby!), basically be expecting people to try and kill you and avoid it. If you aren't ready for all that, call a cab, the wife, a friend, or hell, even ask a cop. The majority of cops, despicable as they may be, are going to respect a person who says, "I know I'm not up for driving home, can you help?"
Oh, one last thing... stay the hell out of my safety following distance. It's there for safety, to brake in time. You fill it up with your keister, I'm not going to move back to make you safe. You just ate the safety zone, so live with the danger until you give it back by moving out of my lane. It's a following distance, not a merging space.
Ahhh, much better.
This sig intentionally left blank.
You're absolutely correct...people who would tailgate drivers in the right lane are the assholes themselves, totally in the wrong.
Generally speaking, though, they tend to represent the exception rather than the rule. Most tailgating is the result of some asshat blocking the passing lane.
Care to post some references to cases where people received jail time for a brake check? ..I didn't think so (otherwise you would have included them with your original post).
Yawn. Another troll.
What do you do when they're hellbent on killing you. I was going down the freeway once in the rightmost lane.. The road was clear, no ramps nearby.. And this guy behind pulls up behind going more than 100 (i'm doing about 65), and he just keeps speeding until he's within centimeters of my rear. Obviously, more than anything, i dont *want* a collison. So, i switch lanes. He follows. Switch again. He follows. Again.. Fortunately, by this point another man on the road saw this and got pissed of and started boxing the guy in, and he finally gave up. I hate driving....
Not to be an ass, but what proof do you have that driving above the speed limit, to match the flow of traffic, is legal?
I've been reviewing the Texas code, and the closest I came is this:
545.363. MINIMUM SPEED REGULATIONS. (a) An operator may not drive so slowly as to impede the normal and reasonable
movement of traffic, except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law. (emphasis added)
And the code has this to say about maximum speeds:
545.351. MAXIMUM SPEED REQUIREMENT.
(a) An operator may not drive at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent
under the circumstances then existing.
(b) An operator:
(1) may not drive a vehicle at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the conditions and having regard for actual and potential hazards then existing; and
(2) shall control the speed of the vehicle as necessary to avoid colliding with another person or vehicle that is
on or entering the highway in compliance with law and the duty of each person to use due care.
545.352. PRIMA FACIE SPEED LIMITS.
(a) A speed in excess of the limits established by Subsection (b) or under another
provision of this subchapter is prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable and prudent and that the speed is unlawful.
(b) [lists speed limits of various types of roadways]
Now IANAL, but I would find it hard to make a case that someone driving 65 in an 80+ traffic flow is breaking the law. Creating a dangerous situation? Yes, given the circumstances - but its dangerous because everyone else is driving at an unlawful excess speed.
(My argument is largely academic, because I drive with the flow of traffic or sometimes faster, as the situation & my mood suits; but I've yet to see a statute anywhere that clearly spells out driving above the speed limit to keep up with the flow of traffic is legal, despite many people claiming this is so).
To renew the car's registeration book, the car has to be checked by the DMV. During that check-up, the following is what's checked ::
* Rear lights are working when hitting the brakes
* Front wind-shield has no cracks
* Car has no bumper-stickers
* All car's parts are the same when it was bought (e.g. can't change rear lights to a new funky look)
* No dark-shades on the windows
* No white smoke from the exhaust
Other than that, they don't care, even though the facilities & man-power is available...
Mod points are a dangerous tool. Abuse them wisely.
> I've seen people at 0.04 seconds. That is less than half a second," he said.
Well... That's more like half a centisecond but obviously that's too high level for this chap
And MY car feature protruded axles with grinders on the ends, feet-long steel horns on reinforced bumpers and harpoon-on-a-chain launchers with electric winches on the front! I also have platform to stand on when I safely hook the car in front, and "vampire rod" to puncture their fuel tank and pump the gasoline out into my fuel tank.
Wait a sec,
Destroying tailgaters with lasers.
agreed. At night, instead of high beams, I usually use my left blinker and leave it on for a bit. Not so useful during the day. But that will usually get their attention, along with a combination of changing lanes back and forth in a relaxed manner, while using my turn signals.
BTW, my biggest pet peeve are people who change lanes without using turn signals. Especially when I'm on my motorcycle.
Since I have owned my Jeep, I have been rearended four times by the unknowing. I almost had #5 last week (squealing wheels - bobbing front end). Out of the four, three have decided to total their cars using my rear bumper. The worst damage that I have had was a bent bumper. This is honestly a good idea citing the tailgaters. It will help prevent the clueless from visiting my bumper, but in some ways, I would prefer Darwin to remove them from the road. It will make the road safer for the people who try to follow the rules.
Listen... if you're in the stadium parking lot, and you see a big dude in a Cardinals jersey cookin' up burgers in front of his Winnebago, sipping on a PBR... you've got yourself a tailgater.
It isn't hard, people.
Look up HERF guns. RF transmitters that zap any electronics in the vicinity. Simply have a rear facing horn over the emitter and you can disable anyone behind you. You'll knock out their engine management system and stall the car. Dangerous however, it could cause them to crash if they are a poor driver which is quite likely if they are tailgating you.
Normally, I try to avoid these kinds of drivers. You sort-of develop a sixth-sense on which cars around you might be dangerous. Just give them room and try to either get away from them, or let them past. I notice issues most with SUVs and BMWs. It's the sort of inconsiderate, self-centered trash that drives these cars that leads to the problem in the first place.
But seriously, I'm fairly certain they are highly correlated. I drive the speed limit, and I'm always in the correct lane. It is very, very rare that I have had to pass someone going slower than the speed limit, but when I have - they are in the correct lane probably close to 99% of the time.
If you think otherwise, you're probably suffering from confirmation bias.
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
I don't know where you are driving..........but 90% of the time, regardless of the lane I'm in, and yes......I do drive between the speedlimit and speedlimit + 5, I still get tailgated. Hence, the invention of the water cannon! Works every time.............except in the extreme cold....tends to cause a problem then.
I have been long-time proponent (since I learned that it works in Germany) for the system that would replace stupid speed limit laws with strict laws for tailgaiting - a major source of traffic accidents involving more than one vehicle (let me say it straight: I do not care much about people who cannot fit into a turn on an empty rural road after reading the 25mph sign - they deserve to die, if they are so stupid).
:-)
This is step in the right direction. Let us embrace our German heritage
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
but in some ways, I would prefer Darwin to remove them from the road.
This actually doesn't help unless the offending driver dies in the accident. My guess is that none of your four accidents involved a fatality.
The only thing this does is reinforces the idea of "I need a bigger vehicle" in the eyes of the offending driver. Honestly, most people who own these SUVs out there do it for two reasons: they're insecure weenie boys or they feel safer knowing that when they come across the family of four in a Ford Fiesta they can run them completely over if the car slows down a bit.
So for these drivers that have wrecked into you are probably upgrading. Sure, in the short term their driving habits may change a bit but if they're over the age of 23 this probably will not be a long term effect. The next time they come across you you may not be so lucky as they may very well be driving the 12-liter Suburban Grande Flagship instead of the oh-so-humble Honda Civic.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Ok, I'm going to ignore the flaimbait here, and try to avoid pointing out that the gp post was tongue-in-cheak. (hmmm not doing so good so far...)
I need to point out a technical error in this comment. Drafting does in fact help both vehicles. The front vehicle travelling alone has a large buffer of air it is plowing through in front and unless its really sleak / tear drop shaped will have a big turbulant low pressure zone behind it. Both are slowing it down.
Having a second vehicle tuck into the turbulant low pressure zone moves effectively removes the effect. The 2nd vehicle obviously has little to no pressure up front, but is still dealing with the negative pressure on its tail, while the vehicle up front only has the pressure of the air up front to deal with.
Not being an expert on fluid dynamics / friction, I won't comment on how much of an improvement the vehicles gain, but this is one of the reasons 2 or 3 NASCAR vehicles in a tight pack out front can pull away from everyone else. If there was no benefit, or worse a penalty for the car out front you wouldn't see the group pull away from the pack.
However, I suspect that to get any benefit when tailgating / drafting, you need to be extremely close to the vehicle - way to close for most peoples comfort.
I'm in my right mind and I have the answer to everything!
What if it is a winding single-lane road and you've never been there? If you can't tell what is around the corner, you will go slower in case there's a hairpin or house stuck out the way. You, however, may know the road like the back of your hand and know that after this turn it goes straignt for a half-mile then turns a corner to go up a steep hill so you'll need to go down a couple of gears.
I'll go slow you can wait.
If you're going to have laws about road rage, you also need to have a Dumb Ass law. After all, get rid of the obliviot going 50 mph in the fast lane and road rage incidents will decrease dramatically.
Illinois has a law on the books (has been for at least a year) requiring you to not remain in the left lane, therefore allowing faster traffic to pass you, when on a highway. The only exception to this (of which I am aware) is when an emergency vehicle is in the right lane, requiring you to go into the left lane to give the emergency vehicle/police car some extra space.
There's no doubt that different regions have different types of drivers, and I agree that if you're not passing someone you should get over, but how exactly do you define "substantially faster"? IMO, if you're passing someone to your right (and you're driving at least the speed limit), you need not make any apologies for not going "fast enough" for the people behind you. Sometimes this is complicated somewhat by hills and tractor trailers, of course. (I live near the Blue Ridge Parkway, where this might be a bigger issue than in Massachusetts.)
Also, I should confess that these days I only get on the highway about three to five times a year. I used to commute ~20 miles to work each way when I lived in Atlanta (~5 years ago), but now I commute <1 mile to work each way (via foot) now that I live in glorious Charlottesville.
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
Glass-etching cream? Come on, sister it's called Hydrofluoric acid. Yeah - an acid, not a cream. Let me guess you "hated" chemistry right?
I've been in that situation many times. I've gotten lost, I'm trying to find a certain street in the dark, and some @$$ is riding my rear bumper! Naturally, I'm not going to handle a road I don't know as quickly as I drive the roads in my area.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Does this mean insurance for women will now cost as much (or more) then it does for men of the same age?
Finally they can detect when someone is in front of me, blocking a whole line of traffic, and pull them over and give them a warning for driving so freakin' slow in the fast lane.
You too can save lives- get the F@#$ out of the fast lane if you have someone tailgating you. Its that simple! Get over, let them pass, then resume your moronic insistence that you must block the faster of 3 lanes.
Not to be an ass, but what proof do you have that driving above the speed limit, to match the flow of traffic, is legal?
None, so I could be wrong. Certainly I've never heard of anyone getting a ticket for going the speed limit while everyone else was going faster, but then again I've never heard of anyone getting a ticket for going under the 45 mph minimum. I have heard of people getting out of speeding tickets by saying that they were just matching the flow of traffic, but second hand annecdotes aren't exactly legal arguments.
The enemies of Democracy are
My sorry slavish-speed-limit-obeying butt IS in the right lane, so why the fuck am I still being tailgated?
Jesus, reading these comments it seems the priorities of the driving public have gotten completely fsked. On the pro-tailgaiting side, I see people arguing that their "right" to get somewhere fast is more important than everyone's right to a safe driving environment. On the "I'll drive slow if I want to and block the left lane" side I see people arguing they have a "right" to punish aggressive drivers and a "right" to drive in any lane they please because they own the freeway, which is more important than than everyone's right to a safe driving environment. Bullshit on both counts. It is neither your right, nor your responsibility to deal with bad drivers. Let the police do their job. Your first priority as a driver is always, always driving safely, period. That means leaving sufficient stopping distance ahead of your vehicle (and don't worry about people merging in...this is another benefit of good following distance, because it allows merges to happen smoothly, which improves traffic flow). This also means moving over to let faster traffic pass, when possible. Above all, it means respecting other drivers' decisions, instead of attempting to punish them because you personally feel they're going to slow/fast/plaid. Again, let the police do their job. Your only job on the road is to drive safely.
I drive a convertible (it's something you can do year-round here in the desert).
Anyone who tailgates me gets a booger flicked on his windshield!
The main problem with photo based law enforcement is that it only targets Arizona residents. And isn't that illegal. In the Valley of the Sun, there are numereous vehicles with out-of-state and out-of-country (Mexico and Canada) license plates. Guess which country most of the hit and run drivers come from and don't have insurance?
It is a bad idea to replace live police officers to save money, and it is insane to do in Phoenix. But the politicians need their money.
And when are they going to full video so that can actually see what really occurred.
I love this thread. I'm sure I will be repeating some of what has been said but here it goes anyhow. I live in Maryland which is ranked as one of the worst traffic areas in the nation. I regularly drive I-95 which is four lanes wide in my area. After 20 years of driving these roads I have thought long and hard about bad driving and the causes - tailgating included. I personally believe that one of the biggest causes of traffic issues - jams, road rage, tailgating, accidents - on the highways (this does not apply to local roads) is improper use and respect of the lanes. The Maryland Driving Manual clearly states that the left lane is the passing lane. Can someone please explain to me why the right lane is typically completely empty and all the cars are crammed together and even tailgating in the three leftmost lanes? My only conclusion is ego and ignorance. What a wonderful combination. Tailgating is a serious problem. It is dangerous and can lead to accidents. But I strongly believe that tailgating is largely a symptom of the frustration of drivers that find the passing lanes jammed with left-lane hogs that are to lazy to change lanes or to full of ego to yield to faster moving traffic. What reason would there be to tailgate if the person desiring to go faster could easily go around slower moving traffic by using the passing lane as it was intended? Now for you egomaniacs that think you have a God-given right to hog the passing lane because you are doing the speed limit or even over it, you WILL NOT stop speeders and you are only creating a more dangerous situation as you are pissing people off. So what if you are right about the speed limit. First, you are wrong to stay in the passing lane, especially if you are not passing anyone. Second, is being right worth being a contributing factor to a situation that might get someone killed? I personally believe that people should be given tickets for impeding traffic if they are causing people to pass them in the right lane. I am willing to bet that if people started taking a more active role in keeping traffic moving by staying to the right unless they are passing slower traffic that many of the other problems would start to go away.
I am impressed by the way you handled that. The world would be a better place if more people would defuse situations instead of escalating them.
Man, you really need that seminar!
I've seen it go both ways. One time on a road trip through nebraska, a sudden freezing rain/sleet turned to slushy snow and the roads were awfully slick. It was a carnival-like atmosphere - all the spinning vehicles, flipped-over SUVs, pickups in ditches. It went on like this for a hundred miles. I kept thinking people would slow down, but they didn't. A giant dualie would blow by me on the 2-lane country road, start spinning and go into the ditch. Repeat every 5 minutes.
It's as if the wrecked vehicles were invisible to everyone but me. One dude even flipped me off right before he slid off the road. I just kept going 30 in a 65. It was funny, but people could have been hurt. Property damage was definitely extensive.
My favorite part was seeing 3 oncoming vehicles spinning at the same time 2 behind me were spinning. I had to go on the shoulder to avoid getting hit and the spinning trucks all narrowly missed each other. Like some farmer ice ballet.
Man, you really need that seminar!
Yes, you have to tailgate just to keep traffic flowing - if you slow down enough to allow 2 seconds of space, you only tempt the "chronic lane changer" who just can't help themselves. These people darting in-and-out of traffic only perpetuate traffic backup by re-creating the same wave effect that started it in the first place. From another perspective, it's also wasteful to leave that big a gap in-between cars when traffic is heavy, because if everyone does it, you reduce the overall carrying capacity of the lane significantly.
So, how can you drive safely without a sizeable safety buffer? Here's my take:
Even if you're driving in thick traffic, you can usually see several cars beyond the one in front of you. I think of this as a "virtual" 1-2 seconds stopping distance. Yes, keep an eye on the guy in front of you, but pay attention to all the cars beyond that as far as you can see. This is your virtual buffer zone - if one of them hits the brakes, you should do the same and take advantage of your advanced warning. This makes sense when you consider the following:
* The possibility of the car in front of you going from 65 mph to 0 mph instantly is virtually zero. It would be a once-in-a-lifetime (or less) freak event. Most people can live with those odds (I certainly can).
* The car in front of you, even if they slam on their brakes, is not going to stop *significantly* faster than your car. All that really matters is a buffer zone ~10 feet to make up the braking differential, and a decent reaction time buffer so you have time to apply your brakes (your "virtual" 1-2 seconds stopping distance).
Sure, I drive with a REAL 1-2 second buffer whenever possible, but in heavy traffic it's just not possible. Using this method makes you a safer driver overall, because even when you have a large buffer you find yourself looking at more than just the car in front of you.
Man is the animal that laughs.
And occasionally whores for Karma.
I've noticed that when I'm driving my 1981 diesel datsun pickup with massive rust and front-end damage NOBODY cuts me off. The vehicle practically screams "Worthless" and "Couldn't care less" and all the bumper damage indicates that it wouldn't be the first time I've rammed something. People give me plenty of leeway, which is good because I can't stop very well in it. When driving my new looking compact car, people cut me off all day long unless I follow closer than I think is optimal.
It's truly like night and day the way drivers act around me, depending on which vehicle I'm in.
Man, you really need that seminar!
You get behind me, I slam my breaks, you rear end me, I sue you, end of story.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
........how do people in the right lane get over, if by law they have to be going slower (becuase they cannot pass) than the lane to their left? The kindness of strangers? What strange world do I keep hearing about, where passing on the right is illegal? I've never been to that world, but it sounds like a fascinating voyage.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
The only state with over a million slaves^H^H^H^H^H^Hprisoners.
Yes, Texas law should be a model for everything.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
So my job is to imagine reasons why I should let you control my actions, when I am driving lawfully (or speeding 10MPH over the limit!)? Yes, you're definitely an asshole, and everyone else seems to have come to this consensus. I'll brake, you'll rear-end me, and I'll sue you. It will be fun. Bring it.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
Actually, I define "passing on the right" the same way you do, but I define "passing someone to your right" to mean that the person you are passing is to your right. So, yes, we're basically agreeing.
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
Indicates that you are one of the tailgaters. In fact, tailgating goes on in 100% of the lanes, and about 75% of cars do it 100% of the time. You are one of them, an asshole, don't realize this, and thus can make the false claim that all tailgating is only slow people in the right lane. In fact, you are probably part of the problem yourself without realizing it. Hypocracy sensors are reading off the scales....
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
Then again, Virginia > Texas.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
Where I drive, all lanes are full all the time. There isn't the luxury of an empty lane just for you to use to pass me. Who's laughing now?
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
No one is ever going to be convicted of anything like this, ever, unless they incriminate themself.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
That depends on your state. Pennsylvania, my state, does a little more. Some, like Maryland, don't do jack until you try and sell the car.
Once folks figure out where all the laser traps are, the new sport will be to cut in front of other cars just before driving through the trap. They get a bogus ticket! ha ha ha!
Typical behavior of the short-sighted and small-minded, so I can't claim any surprise. But fallacies abound, so I'll point them out anyhow...
First, you've made the (incorrect) assumption that you know anything about me at all, but that never stops your type from attaching labels. Then, you exhibit a classic fallacy of those who lack confidence in their convictions by asserting that your (ignorant, uniformed) opinion is shared by some majority. Even if this happens to be the case, it has no bearing whatsoever on the validity of anything you've said. As intelligent Americans know firsthand, being part of the majority doesn't exempt you from stupidity.
Furthermore, your equally ignorant assessment of your chances of bringing suit against someone who rear-ended you demonstrates how little you really know. For the purpose of discussion, I'll make the assumption for you that you actually survive the collision, but this is by no means a foregone conclusion. The investigating officers would cite the other driver for following at an unsafe distance, and then would cite you for obstructing the flow of traffic. If the evidence demonstrates that you braked for no reason other than to antagonize him, such willful and intentional disregard for both the rules of the road and the safety of others will get you arrested for reckless driving or assault with intent to cause death or bodily injury.
You'll have precisely zero ground for any legal action against the other driver, as you willfully engaged in the assholery that directly precipitated the collision. This would hardly be a concern to you, however, as you'd likely be occupied with posting bond and getting what's left of your car out of the impound lot. Fun indeed.
So, be my guest...slam on your brakes next time and create a rear-end collision. If you survive, come back after you've disposed of all the court proceedings, and let us know just how much fun you had. Be sure to keep coming back to let us know how much you're enjoying your new, higher insurance premiums...assuming, of course, that your underwriter doesn't drop you outright.
The first google link is a post from 1995 saying that "New Jersey is one of the FEW states left to still have this law on the book". Wikipedia, as well, provided 0 examples of a state that enforces this, though it said it's still on the books in Massachusetts (which we fondly call 'mass of two shits').
Seems to me that if you'd done half the research yourself you'd have realized you were wrong. But to make an argument that "most places are X" when EVEN YOUR OWN STATE is not X just proves that you are a tailgaiting apologist in my book.
If you find a chart of current laws, that encompasses all 50 states, I'd be happy to review it and declare myself wrong, if more than 25 of those states actively enforce what you claim.
"Prove me wrong, children. Proove me wrong."
-Seymour Skinner
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
the leading vehicle reduces the density of the air in front,
normally, no drafting (as nature abhors a vaccuum) that air would then come in behind the vehicle,
and give it a pressure returning push as it fills in from behind.
now when drafting the lead vehicle is only pushing air out of the way with no rush of air filling in behind the vehicle to apply pressure to the rear.
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
i've driven in several countries outside of the US. in france, where the speed limit is 130kph (~85 mph for those that don't know metric), traffic in the left lane move at ~ 150 (95), and assholes that think you're not moving quickly enough are going > 160 (~100). i say assholes, because these people expect you to get out of the way _just_ because they're behind you, regardless of whether or not its convenient for you. (BTW - i tend to drive on the high side of legal just about everywhere, but i like to relax when i'm doing it). in germany, well don't stay out in the left hand lane unles you're *really* passing everyone, which means > 220 (~135). in greece, stay out of everyone's way unless its a rental ;)
but you haven't seen left lane hell until you've driven on the Long Island Expresway, or anywhere in the NYC metro area. tailgating? i was on the hutchinson (look it up on maps). there was a 6-car pile-up in the left hand lane. the vehicle the worse for the wear was a mazda brand-new family van, which undoubtedly had the latest in ABS, and probably outbraked the vehicle in front of it to a stop. the problem? it was followed by a 70's lincoln continental, which at 2 tons+ and no ABS undoubtedly ploughed right into it and sent it into the vehicle in front. the topper of all the toppers? less than ten miles down the road i'm in the left lane, exceeding the speed limit with someone tailgating me despite the fact that there's nowhere to go *and* i'd like to go faster if i could, we come across another left lane fender bender.
the rule? at least 4 car lengths at 90 (55) in perfect conditions. any closer than that and you *are* tailgating. at 110-120 (~65-72) add another car length. there's a reason for it; i might have to brake very suddenly, and if you are any close than that you will bust my rear-end (i don't actually go in for that, mind you).
finally, use your turn indicators; they're the only method you have to convey your intentions. stay right unless you're actively passing someone, even if it seems to inconvenience you. my speeding does *not* give you the right to illegally impede me (ie, staying in the left-hand lane even though you're not passing). give the person in front of you time to pass the vehicles to his right and safely move over; if he/she doesn't give them a quick flip of the high beams.
favorite piece of never passed legislation: "ban low performance drivers, not high-perfomance cars!" (seen in a men's room in southern vermont in the 80's)
...vividly encapsulates that post-Watergate/pre-punk/coked-up moment when you could trust no one, least of all yourself.
We have a blanket keep left unless overtaking rule on all roads 80+ (km/h) down under and fuckers are always driving well below the speed limit in the passing lane here! In your case, however, the person behind you is obviously a total asshat.
Me lost me cookie at the disco.
You just said getting rear-ended is like getting in a head-on collision. I think this speaks for itself. Do not pass Go, go directly to high school physics.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
I suspect that most weavers can't be bothered checking their mirrors -- let alone their blind spots -- which makes them dangerous to everyone, especially motorcyclists such as myself.
I'd generally rate tailgating and weaving higher risk (to others) than speeding, and I wish the police were to act accordingly. While I cannot consider the "push-button zap-everyone" convenience of today's radar-guns a good thing, the fact some can now measure the gap between vehicles can IMHO only help in educating the worst tailgaters out there.
Wow...apparently you need remedial reading comprehension classes in addition to driving lessons.
It's known as "context." In this case, the context was: like = e.g. = such as = for example = as in, etc.
As in, "the force of the rear-end collision drove little Johnny's car head-on into the oncoming traffic lane, where his 1993 shitbox was obliterated by a loaded 18-wheeler traveling at 75mph."
Idiot.
Any intelligent reader has already made conclusions about you. The fact that you defended such a stupid statement actually makes you look even stupider than you already did.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
Because I, and everyone else with common sense and experience, know you are wrong. Most rear-endings are not fatal, period. So saying "if you survive" is indeed laughable because you usually will. I know tons of people who have been rear ended (including me and my wife). I know very few people who were killed in such accidents (0 to my knowledge). Of course, it's hard to know dead people.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
That's 100,000 rear endings in JUST ONE STATE, and only 1400 fatalties FOR ALL KINDS OF ACCIDENTS.
Certainly looks to me that you would survive a rear-ending about 99% of the time.
You, sir, are still causing me to laugh. You tricked me into doing a LITTLE BIT of work, true. But I'm still laughing. Joke's on you.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
It's not 1 foot per 10 mph. It's one car length per 10 mph.
That's how it is in Mexico. The left lane in a 2-lane (4-lane both ways) highway is *only* for passing; they even have signs every now and then reminding you of this fact.