There is a lot of extraneous shit included standard with operating systems these days. These things provide the user value. It does not seem to be out of line to ask these questions especially considering the other major general purpose operating systems bundle these things and often a whole lot more.
Oh, it contains all the stuff he was asking about. He just wants it all differently. Unfortunately, Microsoft really can't do that because they are a monopoly, and they would get sued for it. Mostly from the EU. You want better apps standard in your OS? Write your EU representative and tell them to back the hell off.
He'll in the EU, they got sued for including IE, and I doubt most of slash dot considers that competitive. They also had to remove media player. Seems like the windows store is a nice way of removing some of that stuff, and offering it as a free download through the windows store. Not a bad idea. Those who don't want it (or are in an oppressive union) don't have to have it, while those that do want it, can get it easily along with any other competing offering. It may not be free, but at least it is distributed the exact same way so it SHOULD avoid lawsuits since the terms are the same.
define trust? I can guarantee that the most empowering 'cool utils' will never find their way onto the store because they will directly compete with some obtuse middleman business strategy.
What kind of guarantee are you giving? 30 day money back guarantee, or you will commit seppuku in disgrace if you are wrong guarantee? Utilities that have the most interest will always be in the official stores. Niche stuff maybe not so much. That doesn't devalue the need for a central place people can browse, buy, and update the majority of their software from a place they trust to not be intentionally infecting with Trojan horses, key loggers, etc.
The rest of your post is just rants about you hating the "man", society, and other useless conjecture that goes against proven trends and facts. Sorry you don't like it. Sucks to be you.
Umm.. Windows Photo Viewer opens up whenever I click on a PNG or JPG file. What new UI? I haven't changed anything from default regarding which app to launch. I'm guessing Dell or HP or whomever you got your PC from decided to change it for you, how nice.
The guy who made the video is a tard. And a sensationalist tard. Or perhaps he just read some FUD and then decided to make a video from a tards point of view hoping that people that don't know better will believe it.
No, he's saying that if you are inflexible, and need the Windows 7 look and feel, you can still do so through 3rd party software. The rest of us can actually adapt just fine.
The reviewer actually dismissed the opening screen that describes how to do these things because he was a computer "expert". He then complains that he has no way to know these things?
Third, I've known gamers to pry off their Windows keys or buy Windows key-less keyboards because accidentally pressing the Windows key while reaching for Ctrl or Alt or Z during a full-screen game makes certain games fail.
I've known gamers to buy gaming keyboards like any keyboard from logitech that begins with the letter "G" that has a switch to temporarily disable the windows key.
I think you'll find that over the next couple of versions, that the 'classic' interface disappears or has reduced functionality. Anyone think this is not gong to happen?
Yes, I think that is not going to happen. I do expect a few other changes however, like the Windows Store to expand it's reach so that it covers more desktop applications (and the accompanying updates to the app).
Because they are referring to switching from a desktop version of Windows 7 using a mouse, and going to a completely touch driven device with no mouse. Yes, if you get a brand new computer/laptop/tablet, and want to switch to a touch screen, it will take much longer as you learn how to point at the screen, and the new gestures and how to close applications, etc with no keyboard. That is a far cry from taking a Windows 7 machine with a keyboard and mouse and upgrading it to Windows 8 and continuing to use the keyboard and mouse.
As for the new york times article, re-read the section that starts with "Desktop Windows". Seems they say pretty much exactly what I did. It's the same as Windows 7 with a few minor tweaks and enhancements. The rest of the article is about touch interfaces, the metro apps, and they don't like it. You don't have to use it. You don't have to buy a touch screen. I don't use it, and I don't have a touch screen, nor do I see things heading that way. It's an additional feature that you may or may not like. Just as many people have said before, touch screens (and metro apps) can be nice, but they fail when used as the only interface for people CREATING stuff. It's fine for consumers to consume, but it's a PITA for those that create stuff (documents, spreadsheets, programs, etc). Most people on slashdot are the creator types. Most people however are the consumer types. Many are a mix of both.
You seem to be unwilling and unable to actually even look at Windows 8 at all. I'm certainly not going to change your mind, and honestly, I don't really care to. However, blindly dismissing something out of ignorance is for fools.
Advocating like a paid shill? Really? Have I been making unfounded claims of greatness? No. Have I ever once said everyone should run out and buy it now? No.
On the other hand, you've been making all kinds of claims and comparisons and yet, you haven't even seen it. I have. I'm writing this from a Windows 8 system right now. I can't speak for everyone. I can only tell you what I have personally done or seen, or tell you when someone says something that is incorrect.
I've mentioned what is better about Windows 8 in other threads, I'm not going to repeat them here. Plenty of other articles about what Windows 8 does right. If you have questions, I'll answer them.
As for iDrive, yes, I read it, but I find it off-topic as what you are describing has very little to do with Windows 8. It's completely different because distractions while driving is dangerous, and obviously most of the user interface there was complete and utter garbage that made you do many useless steps that didn't help. First, applications behave the same, so you won't have to go trying to figure out the new way to bold a word in some hidden menu 5 clicks down when the same application was one click in Windows 7. My analogy was better because it refered to things you do once -- before you begin you main task -- not constantly while you are doing it. Secondly, it's not something that is typically life threatening to the user or to others around them, even if it was.
Because, the problems people talk about in Windows 8 are about as important to being able to drive the car as is the color of it, or where the headlight switch/knob is.
Your desktop is the EXACT same. The applications are the EXACT same. In fact, if you typically pin your applications to the taskbar, or have your links on your desktop, most uneducated computer users probably couldn't tell the difference between Windows 7 and Windows 8 if you showed them one then showed them the other the next day unless you made a point about it being different.
The differences that people complain about are so trivial, that my ex-wife, who is absolutely terrible at computers picked it up and had no problems after my son taught her everything she needed to know in 30 seconds. Yes, 30 seconds later, she was fully productive doing all her normal stuff on Windows 8. Yes, the internet talk is all about...that. It is beyond silly.
ROFL. Lowered productivity for 2 weeks? Please, just try it, or at least see it. Watching comments from people who haven't even seen the damn thing is so damn funny.
If you know Windows 7, and after 5 minutes you aren't fully productive on Windows 8, there is something wrong.
On the other hand, I'm trying to make a case to my boss about letting me drive my own car to out of state clients, because I can't possibly just jump in a rental car, because who knows what is different. The car might be BLUE, and I've never driven a BLUE car. Especially if the headlight switch on on the left instead of it being a knob.
I have now made the appropriate automotive analogy. Do you understand? And... get of MY lawn.
Nothing keeping you from switching windows/tasks. I currently have 8 windows open, and I can switch between them, tile them, arrange them all just like I have been since Windows 3.1.
The garbage about not being able to have multiple windows on the screen only applies to Metro Applications. I don't use any Metro applications except for a few freebie games, which I suspect is what most people do or will do for a long time. Any application that you can/do run in Windows 7 will act just the same in Windows 8. It's not a replacement. It's not like all of a sudden your Windows 7 apps when you upgrade with Windows 8 you can no longer tile/overlap/switch. You can do absolutely all of it in Windows 8. Some of those you can't do in Metro applications, however, sticking with Windows 7 because you don't like that is silly, because you can't run them AT ALL in Windows 7.
Hardware comes in all types, like printers, docking stations, multimedia keyboard, mice, touch mice, touch screens, external storage, scanners, web cams, video/sound cards. Not everyone buys everything with the computer, and many don't know how to go looking for updated drivers for what they do have that makes it work better/more stable.
Performance wise? Yes, it boots faster, takes less memory, uses the remaining memory more efficiently for caching. It's pretty easy to check yourself if you don't want to you know, read stuff on the web. Clean install both and see.
Better security? Compared to Windows XP? Are you kidding? They've even added a few more tricks on top of even Windows 7 security as well, like SmartScreen.
Granted, most of the productivity features are actually hold outs from Windows 7 like snap, etc. But there are other things that make it easier to see what is going on with your system, like the redesigned task manager and resource manager that let you pinpoint problem areas, get rid of useless start up items, etc. For people who have laptops that have them sleep and resume, a faster "boot" is productivity gains. It may not apply to you, but it does for many others.
Lastly, my comment was about upgrading your OS in general, while you seem to want to nit pick on false or misleading hyperbole regarding Windows 8 specifically. I get it, you hate everything.
There is a difference between "sticking with windows XP" and still having windows XP machines. Obviously the difference is that the former means that there are no plans to upgrade them, while the later may or may not mean that they will be upgraded at some point.
The company I work for isn't an American Company, so it isn't a fortune X, however, by revenue, it would be in the top 150ish, and 354 out of the fortune 500 are clients of ours. Not that my position there would allow me to tell you the plans of any of them, or really have any direct interaction with them, I just thought I would toss that out there since we're tossing around useless facts.
Slashdot Mirror
There is a lot of extraneous shit included standard with operating systems these days. These things provide the user value. It does not seem to be out of line to ask these questions especially considering the other major general purpose operating systems bundle these things and often a whole lot more.
Oh, it contains all the stuff he was asking about. He just wants it all differently. Unfortunately, Microsoft really can't do that because they are a monopoly, and they would get sued for it. Mostly from the EU. You want better apps standard in your OS? Write your EU representative and tell them to back the hell off.
He'll in the EU, they got sued for including IE, and I doubt most of slash dot considers that competitive. They also had to remove media player. Seems like the windows store is a nice way of removing some of that stuff, and offering it as a free download through the windows store. Not a bad idea. Those who don't want it (or are in an oppressive union) don't have to have it, while those that do want it, can get it easily along with any other competing offering. It may not be free, but at least it is distributed the exact same way so it SHOULD avoid lawsuits since the terms are the same.
define trust? I can guarantee that the most empowering 'cool utils' will never find their way onto the store because they will directly compete with some obtuse middleman business strategy.
What kind of guarantee are you giving? 30 day money back guarantee, or you will commit seppuku in disgrace if you are wrong guarantee? Utilities that have the most interest will always be in the official stores. Niche stuff maybe not so much. That doesn't devalue the need for a central place people can browse, buy, and update the majority of their software from a place they trust to not be intentionally infecting with Trojan horses, key loggers, etc.
The rest of your post is just rants about you hating the "man", society, and other useless conjecture that goes against proven trends and facts. Sorry you don't like it. Sucks to be you.
Can I just push the windows key, start typing a couple of characters, and launch my app if it's not in the folder?
That already works in Windows 8. I suppose you can replace it, but why?
Umm.. Windows Photo Viewer opens up whenever I click on a PNG or JPG file. What new UI? I haven't changed anything from default regarding which app to launch. I'm guessing Dell or HP or whomever you got your PC from decided to change it for you, how nice.
type help or press F1.
The guy who made the video is a tard. And a sensationalist tard. Or perhaps he just read some FUD and then decided to make a video from a tards point of view hoping that people that don't know better will believe it.
If you are on the start screen, type help., or if you are on the desktop, press F1, or watch the tutorial when you first boot.
No, he's saying that if you are inflexible, and need the Windows 7 look and feel, you can still do so through 3rd party software. The rest of us can actually adapt just fine.
Neither do ACs
Do you demand they move the steering wheel to the other side of the car for you?
I suggest seeing a doctor if you are having problems keeping a thought for longer than a few seconds.
Your utter lack of understanding shows you haven't even touched the OS.
The reviewer actually dismissed the opening screen that describes how to do these things because he was a computer "expert". He then complains that he has no way to know these things?
Third, I've known gamers to pry off their Windows keys or buy Windows key-less keyboards because accidentally pressing the Windows key while reaching for Ctrl or Alt or Z during a full-screen game makes certain games fail.
I've known gamers to buy gaming keyboards like any keyboard from logitech that begins with the letter "G" that has a switch to temporarily disable the windows key.
I think you'll find that over the next couple of versions, that the 'classic' interface disappears or has reduced functionality. Anyone think this is not gong to happen?
Yes, I think that is not going to happen. I do expect a few other changes however, like the Windows Store to expand it's reach so that it covers more desktop applications (and the accompanying updates to the app).
And the third feature is, what, the Windows Store? How is that a feature? Why do I need a marketplace on my desktop? It's an Operating System...
So you have a common place to both find and update applications from a trusted source, rather than www.coolutility.ru?
Has MS Paint been upgraded to something Photoshop like?
It's an Operating System... Perhaps you should look in the Windows Store for one you would like better.
Has the Image Viewer been redesigned to have more features / work with more formats?
It's an Operating System... Perhaps you should look in the Windows Store if you don't like the built-in one.
Has the CD / DVD / BluRay software been upgraded to something more useful?
It's an Operating System... Again, that is an application, perhaps you should check out the Windows Store for an application you might prefer.
How about the creation and extraction of archives?
It's an Operating System... This is getting pretty old.
Backup and restore?
Why yes, but if you want, you can also check out the Windows Store...
Has the Media Player been rewritten to be less annoying, something approaching WinAmp in terms of usefulness?
It's an Operating System... And WinAmp sucks.
How about its support for codecs? Both old ones and new ones. Subtitles.
Yes, the operating system supports all the APIs necessary to support any 3rd part codec. Exactly what an Operating System should do.
Have they implemented 'Admin Command Line' here as a standard option?
Yes, two of them in fact.
How about video transcoding?
It's an Operating System...
A PDF viewer that doesn't make people spit tacks?
It's an Operating System...
Because they are referring to switching from a desktop version of Windows 7 using a mouse, and going to a completely touch driven device with no mouse. Yes, if you get a brand new computer/laptop/tablet, and want to switch to a touch screen, it will take much longer as you learn how to point at the screen, and the new gestures and how to close applications, etc with no keyboard. That is a far cry from taking a Windows 7 machine with a keyboard and mouse and upgrading it to Windows 8 and continuing to use the keyboard and mouse.
As for the new york times article, re-read the section that starts with "Desktop Windows". Seems they say pretty much exactly what I did. It's the same as Windows 7 with a few minor tweaks and enhancements. The rest of the article is about touch interfaces, the metro apps, and they don't like it. You don't have to use it. You don't have to buy a touch screen. I don't use it, and I don't have a touch screen, nor do I see things heading that way. It's an additional feature that you may or may not like. Just as many people have said before, touch screens (and metro apps) can be nice, but they fail when used as the only interface for people CREATING stuff. It's fine for consumers to consume, but it's a PITA for those that create stuff (documents, spreadsheets, programs, etc). Most people on slashdot are the creator types. Most people however are the consumer types. Many are a mix of both.
You seem to be unwilling and unable to actually even look at Windows 8 at all. I'm certainly not going to change your mind, and honestly, I don't really care to. However, blindly dismissing something out of ignorance is for fools.
Advocating like a paid shill? Really? Have I been making unfounded claims of greatness? No. Have I ever once said everyone should run out and buy it now? No.
On the other hand, you've been making all kinds of claims and comparisons and yet, you haven't even seen it. I have. I'm writing this from a Windows 8 system right now. I can't speak for everyone. I can only tell you what I have personally done or seen, or tell you when someone says something that is incorrect.
I've mentioned what is better about Windows 8 in other threads, I'm not going to repeat them here. Plenty of other articles about what Windows 8 does right. If you have questions, I'll answer them.
As for iDrive, yes, I read it, but I find it off-topic as what you are describing has very little to do with Windows 8. It's completely different because distractions while driving is dangerous, and obviously most of the user interface there was complete and utter garbage that made you do many useless steps that didn't help. First, applications behave the same, so you won't have to go trying to figure out the new way to bold a word in some hidden menu 5 clicks down when the same application was one click in Windows 7. My analogy was better because it refered to things you do once -- before you begin you main task -- not constantly while you are doing it. Secondly, it's not something that is typically life threatening to the user or to others around them, even if it was.
Because, the problems people talk about in Windows 8 are about as important to being able to drive the car as is the color of it, or where the headlight switch/knob is.
Your desktop is the EXACT same. The applications are the EXACT same. In fact, if you typically pin your applications to the taskbar, or have your links on your desktop, most uneducated computer users probably couldn't tell the difference between Windows 7 and Windows 8 if you showed them one then showed them the other the next day unless you made a point about it being different.
The differences that people complain about are so trivial, that my ex-wife, who is absolutely terrible at computers picked it up and had no problems after my son taught her everything she needed to know in 30 seconds. Yes, 30 seconds later, she was fully productive doing all her normal stuff on Windows 8. Yes, the internet talk is all about...that. It is beyond silly.
ROFL. Lowered productivity for 2 weeks? Please, just try it, or at least see it. Watching comments from people who haven't even seen the damn thing is so damn funny.
If you know Windows 7, and after 5 minutes you aren't fully productive on Windows 8, there is something wrong.
On the other hand, I'm trying to make a case to my boss about letting me drive my own car to out of state clients, because I can't possibly just jump in a rental car, because who knows what is different. The car might be BLUE, and I've never driven a BLUE car. Especially if the headlight switch on on the left instead of it being a knob.
I have now made the appropriate automotive analogy. Do you understand? And... get of MY lawn.
Nothing keeping you from switching windows/tasks. I currently have 8 windows open, and I can switch between them, tile them, arrange them all just like I have been since Windows 3.1.
The garbage about not being able to have multiple windows on the screen only applies to Metro Applications. I don't use any Metro applications except for a few freebie games, which I suspect is what most people do or will do for a long time. Any application that you can/do run in Windows 7 will act just the same in Windows 8. It's not a replacement. It's not like all of a sudden your Windows 7 apps when you upgrade with Windows 8 you can no longer tile/overlap/switch. You can do absolutely all of it in Windows 8. Some of those you can't do in Metro applications, however, sticking with Windows 7 because you don't like that is silly, because you can't run them AT ALL in Windows 7.
Hardware comes in all types, like printers, docking stations, multimedia keyboard, mice, touch mice, touch screens, external storage, scanners, web cams, video/sound cards. Not everyone buys everything with the computer, and many don't know how to go looking for updated drivers for what they do have that makes it work better/more stable.
Performance wise? Yes, it boots faster, takes less memory, uses the remaining memory more efficiently for caching. It's pretty easy to check yourself if you don't want to you know, read stuff on the web. Clean install both and see.
Better security? Compared to Windows XP? Are you kidding? They've even added a few more tricks on top of even Windows 7 security as well, like SmartScreen.
Granted, most of the productivity features are actually hold outs from Windows 7 like snap, etc. But there are other things that make it easier to see what is going on with your system, like the redesigned task manager and resource manager that let you pinpoint problem areas, get rid of useless start up items, etc. For people who have laptops that have them sleep and resume, a faster "boot" is productivity gains. It may not apply to you, but it does for many others.
Lastly, my comment was about upgrading your OS in general, while you seem to want to nit pick on false or misleading hyperbole regarding Windows 8 specifically. I get it, you hate everything.
Ack, I just double checked. We'd be around 40th position in the Fortune 100 if we were listed.
There is a difference between "sticking with windows XP" and still having windows XP machines. Obviously the difference is that the former means that there are no plans to upgrade them, while the later may or may not mean that they will be upgraded at some point.
The company I work for isn't an American Company, so it isn't a fortune X, however, by revenue, it would be in the top 150ish, and 354 out of the fortune 500 are clients of ours. Not that my position there would allow me to tell you the plans of any of them, or really have any direct interaction with them, I just thought I would toss that out there since we're tossing around useless facts.
Great advertisement, but I'm not sure how that is relevant to the conversation.
I could easily say, but it's totally true, other why would http://www.metro7app.com/ exist?