"From a perspective of someone interested in a PS3 is that Sony has priced its product into a range previously occupied over the past 20 years by the Neo Geo, CDi, and 3DO -- none of which were terribly successful commercially, at least when compared to less-expensive platforms like the NES, SNES, and Playstion."
I don't think comparisons to the other high-priced systems are all that useful. The Neo Geo's games were $200 each. The CDi wasn't much of a game machine at all. The 3DO's games, though it had a few gems, weren't enough to keep it afloat. Sony's in the unusual place of having a good game machine with (presumably) good games and a few other nicities, to boot.
I'm no fan of Sony by any stretch of the imagination, but I have a hard time believing they won't sell at least 10 million units during its lifetime. If any company can do it, it's Sony. Their biggest problem, though, isn't the price tag, it's the competition. Nintendo and Microsoft are going to give them a good hard run for the money.
"Greed is a trait to norish, and help them develop into a skill, for the greedy child eventualyl turns into tthe rich executive, and when I am so old as to need a nurse to change my depends, I want my child to have money to pay for the best"... but because you bought him a PS3, he'll get TOO greedy and put you in a cheap-o nursing home.
It's been a while since I've been laptop hunting, but isn't this always the case? With both the laptops I've purchased, I ended up getting the lowest RAM and HD available and purchased them seperately. I got a lot more bang for the buck that way.
I just wanted to offer my new backup service for all who of you who fear this trojan. Just contact me so we can arrange transfers. Please do not be wary of my generosity, for helping is its own reward.
"I have the opposite problem. I can never remember which GameCube button is X, which is Y, and which is Z."
Can't say I've ever had a problem with that. X is on the left side, Y is on the right side, Z is on the under side. (I do, however, confuse Z for R sometimes. That point I'll concede.) The extra bonus with the X and the Y is that they have the distinctive kidney bean shape.
"The square is to the left near the square-shaped center of the controller; the circle is to the right near the rounded outer edge; and the triangle points up."
I've always gotten the triangle, but the other three I've had trouble relating to. (Actually... X hasn't been so bad.) I'll take what you've said in mind, though, next time I get into a PS2 game.
"I guess there's some kind of "way of thinking" issue here."
Agreed. That's why I'm intentionally avoiding saying 'wrong' or anything like that. I'll happily agree that I'm not 'right' on that topic.
"It doesn't matter who's "copying" who -- do you use internet explorer? OMG it so COPIED netscape. Get over it."
Actually, it does matter. Nintendo went full force with the Rev design and applied the methodology towards game making. Sony saw a feature and plugged it in. The difference? There's a reason Nintendo went with the sensor bar. There's a reason Nintendo has a remote and the nunchuck. There's a reason there's a speaker in the remote. They all have to do with game play. Sony band-aided a feature into the controller without such a motivation. As such, what assurances do we have that it will be tuned appropriately for game play?
Okay, maybe "who's copying who" isn't that important of question. Nevertheless, there's still the question of "will it actually do anything useful?" Sony did not definitively answer that question at E3. It's not good for the gamers if they spend $600 for a system with a broken feature. Ask anybody who paid for a copy of Windows.
"Who's fault is that? Sony for sticking with a design thats comfortable for a lot of their users, or the game maker who knew what the controller was going to be like and still made the game so that it didn't work well with it."
Sony for sticking with a design that isn't comfortable for users playing popular games.
"Why does the controller have to be redesigned with every console release?"
For the simple reason that the original PS controller wasn't built to accomodate the games being played today. I loved San Andreas, but I would have been far less frustrated with it if I had waited for the PC version.
My basis for saying that was there were at least 3 exploits that affected FF and IE, but didn't affect Opera. I haven't found those again so no hard feelings if you don't believe me. One of them was actually a flaw in the WC3 standard. Using a malformed FTP address that contained the username etc, you could mask a URL. Somebody would think they're going to paypal.come but end up going somewhere else entirely. When this exploit was announced, FF and IE (IE was PARTICULARLY bad about this...) were susceptible to it. Opera threw up a warning saying "Are you really really sure you want to go to this domain...?"
I'll concede that this is hardly empirical. Still, though, I'm far more comfy using Opera than FF. Maybe I'm an idiot.
"Every PS fanboy states that the dual-shock is the best controller out there, but when it comes to analog stick placement, it's only because it's what they're used to."
There are things about the PS2 controller that I like, it is fairly comfortable, but I agree with everything you've said. Only I want to add a couple of complaints:
1.) The L3 and R3 buttons. Oh, thanks a lot for that. I understand where they're coming from on them. It's great that you can just press 'down' and get another click there. On paper, this sounds great. San Andreas, for example, used this to honk the horn. Very intuitive. Except... I didn't know about it at first! My first clue to it came from making extreme turns in the game. Every time I whipped around the corner, HOOOOOOONNNNNNNKKKKKKKKKKK. WTF? Worse, the game would give me clues to it. "Press the R3 button.." I looked all over the damn controller, couldn't find anything labeled R3. Eventually I figured it out. But.. yeesh. It took me a long time to get to where I could use the controller without accidently hitting that button. Even then, I'm not perfect at it. In my humble opinion, it's not good UI design when you tie features to buttons that could be hit easily. At least in San Andreas's case, it wasn't a big deal.
2.) This isn't really the fault of the Dual Shock controller, but Sony's choice in particular. Why on Earth did they think it was a good idea to use heiroglyphics for the symbols of the buttons? Nintendo (and every other console company out there...) had the right idea. A, B, X, Y, L, R. Easy enough to commit to memory. Sony, argh. Normally, this isn't a big issue. Typically with Playstation games, the buttons are fairly intuitively laid out. San Andreas, though, used these shapes to play a DDR'esque game. They'd show you the symbols you need to hit, and you've got to press the correct button at the right time to get the score. This means you have to memorize the button for each symbol. This is attainable, but thoroughly unnecessary. If this were on the Game Cube, this wouldn't have been a problem.
Yeesh. Sad thing is, they have a legacy to follow. They're not going to address either of my complaints, now. Thanks to backwards compatibility, the symbols are here to stay, and they cannot remove the 3 buttons. I can imagine my complaints wouldn't ever be Sony's #1 concern, but I still find it pretty pathetic. I cannot believe they didn't address the whole "analog sticks suck for FPS games" problem. A built in 'light zapper' sensor on the controller would have been better than nothing, cheap too. I'm honestly shocked that niether MS nor Sony tried this. I think Phil Harrison and Peter Moore should be locked in a room and forced to play a version of San Andreas without the auto-targetting feature.
" It's a game console, there's no excuse for it to cost six hundred bucks. It didn't work for Neo-Geo (which was by far the most powerful console in its day) and it won't work for the PS3."
Ok ok, let's come back down to Earth, here.
1.) The Neo Geo's games were $200. Not a great example. A 3DO would be a better example, though not as supportive of your point. The quality of games was a bigger problem than the initial $700 price tag.
2.) The $600 price tag sucks. Sony knows this. Microsoft knows this. 3DO knows this. Etc. I know I will NOT be paying $600 for this system. Heck, I wouldn't pay this much for a Nintendo system, and I'm a foaming-at-the-mouth Nintendo fan boy.
HOWEVER. The launch of the XBOX 360 cannot have faded much from our minds. Shortages. Outrageous prices on eBay. Microsoft taking a loss on the systems anyway. Even though I despise Sony, I have to concede that it would be awfully dumb of them to launch this system at a lower price. They're going to sell out. There's going to be a shortage for months. They might as well take as LITTLE loss as possible on these machines.
In short, I think the high price is good for them, at least at launch. That said, though, they're in serious trouble if they try to maintain that price for long after the launch. I just don't expect that, though. I don't expect that with competition coming from Microsoft and Nintendo that Sony will keep the $600 tag.
I think Sony made a total ass of themselves at E3. I think $600 is way too much for a system. I think Sony doesn't know shit about video games. I don't think they're on a path to self destruction, at least not based on the price tag of the system.
"Though to be honest I don't see of the appeal of HD over the net. It's the same bullshit video tape of a monkey falling out of a tree or something, just now it's got 16 times the pixels."
It's appealing to me because TV networks are slowly slowly slowly starting to put their shows on-line. Maybe one day... *sigh*
Slashdot Mirror
"From a perspective of someone interested in a PS3 is that Sony has priced its product into a range previously occupied over the past 20 years by the Neo Geo, CDi, and 3DO -- none of which were terribly successful commercially, at least when compared to less-expensive platforms like the NES, SNES, and Playstion."
I don't think comparisons to the other high-priced systems are all that useful. The Neo Geo's games were $200 each. The CDi wasn't much of a game machine at all. The 3DO's games, though it had a few gems, weren't enough to keep it afloat. Sony's in the unusual place of having a good game machine with (presumably) good games and a few other nicities, to boot.
I'm no fan of Sony by any stretch of the imagination, but I have a hard time believing they won't sell at least 10 million units during its lifetime. If any company can do it, it's Sony. Their biggest problem, though, isn't the price tag, it's the competition. Nintendo and Microsoft are going to give them a good hard run for the money.
"Greed is a trait to norish, and help them develop into a skill, for the greedy child eventualyl turns into tthe rich executive, and when I am so old as to need a nurse to change my depends, I want my child to have money to pay for the best" ... but because you bought him a PS3, he'll get TOO greedy and put you in a cheap-o nursing home.
"Its much easier to remember symbols than letters and systems which just use A,B,C,D are IMHO making it harder on their users."
Maybe I'm just different, but no, I don't agree with that at all.
A/B
X/Y
Very easy to associate into memory, at least if you know your ABCs. The symbols require more work to remember them.
"Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer" I think that is the way it goes."
I thought it was "Resistance is Futile..."
If these cliches really are insightful, I've got a few more Star Trek and Doctor Who quotes I can use.
It's been a while since I've been laptop hunting, but isn't this always the case? With both the laptops I've purchased, I ended up getting the lowest RAM and HD available and purchased them seperately. I got a lot more bang for the buck that way.
"You are free to look at porn if you want to. Most dont, but you can."
Most Linux users don't look at porn? Didn't that all change when KDE came along and you didn't need both hands available?
Greetings, all.
I just wanted to offer my new backup service for all who of you who fear this trojan. Just contact me so we can arrange transfers. Please do not be wary of my generosity, for helping is its own reward.
"[young asian chic to young guys right seductively takes leg and wraps it around young guys waist]"
[young asian chic opens mouth to talk, unsupported audio codec message appears, young guy just shrubs]
"Thank god! I use linux!"
I thought Linux supported porn by now.
"Don't you mean its sad companies INTIMIDATE instead of innovate?"
Nope. I double-checked my previous post, didn't stutter or anything.
"It's also sad that corporations would rather imitate rather than innovate. Hard to say which is worse, really."
Flamebait? You've got to be kidding! How many times have we heard the phrase "iPod killer"?
"It depends on your definition of imitate. For example, I don't mind that all consumer cars have four wheels."
No no, of course not. But we all shake our pitchforks when the debate about Microsoft vs. Apple vs. Xerox comes up.
"It's sad, but it's becoming a predictable reality that corporations prefer to litigate rather than innovate."
It's also sad that corporations would rather imitate rather than innovate. Hard to say which is worse, really.
"I have the opposite problem. I can never remember which GameCube button is X, which is Y, and which is Z."
Can't say I've ever had a problem with that. X is on the left side, Y is on the right side, Z is on the under side. (I do, however, confuse Z for R sometimes. That point I'll concede.) The extra bonus with the X and the Y is that they have the distinctive kidney bean shape.
"The square is to the left near the square-shaped center of the controller; the circle is to the right near the rounded outer edge; and the triangle points up."
I've always gotten the triangle, but the other three I've had trouble relating to. (Actually... X hasn't been so bad.) I'll take what you've said in mind, though, next time I get into a PS2 game.
"I guess there's some kind of "way of thinking" issue here."
Agreed. That's why I'm intentionally avoiding saying 'wrong' or anything like that. I'll happily agree that I'm not 'right' on that topic.
"I wonder if any married couple has ever met on Slashdot :)"
If that ever happened, I'd be hesitant to click on the photos link.
"It doesn't matter who's "copying" who -- do you use internet explorer? OMG it so COPIED netscape. Get over it."
Actually, it does matter. Nintendo went full force with the Rev design and applied the methodology towards game making. Sony saw a feature and plugged it in. The difference? There's a reason Nintendo went with the sensor bar. There's a reason Nintendo has a remote and the nunchuck. There's a reason there's a speaker in the remote. They all have to do with game play. Sony band-aided a feature into the controller without such a motivation. As such, what assurances do we have that it will be tuned appropriately for game play?
Okay, maybe "who's copying who" isn't that important of question. Nevertheless, there's still the question of "will it actually do anything useful?" Sony did not definitively answer that question at E3. It's not good for the gamers if they spend $600 for a system with a broken feature. Ask anybody who paid for a copy of Windows.
For the record, that wasn't me that replied to you anonymously there. Hehe.
"Who's fault is that? Sony for sticking with a design thats comfortable for a lot of their users, or the game maker who knew what the controller was going to be like and still made the game so that it didn't work well with it."
Sony for sticking with a design that isn't comfortable for users playing popular games.
"Why does the controller have to be redesigned with every console release?"
For the simple reason that the original PS controller wasn't built to accomodate the games being played today. I loved San Andreas, but I would have been far less frustrated with it if I had waited for the PC version.
"ignore the ac, marry me?"
Way to combat the stereotype that Slashdotters are desperate!
My basis for saying that was there were at least 3 exploits that affected FF and IE, but didn't affect Opera. I haven't found those again so no hard feelings if you don't believe me. One of them was actually a flaw in the WC3 standard. Using a malformed FTP address that contained the username etc, you could mask a URL. Somebody would think they're going to paypal.come but end up going somewhere else entirely. When this exploit was announced, FF and IE (IE was PARTICULARLY bad about this...) were susceptible to it. Opera threw up a warning saying "Are you really really sure you want to go to this domain...?"
I'll concede that this is hardly empirical. Still, though, I'm far more comfy using Opera than FF. Maybe I'm an idiot.
"Every PS fanboy states that the dual-shock is the best controller out there, but when it comes to analog stick placement, it's only because it's what they're used to."
There are things about the PS2 controller that I like, it is fairly comfortable, but I agree with everything you've said. Only I want to add a couple of complaints:
1.) The L3 and R3 buttons. Oh, thanks a lot for that. I understand where they're coming from on them. It's great that you can just press 'down' and get another click there. On paper, this sounds great. San Andreas, for example, used this to honk the horn. Very intuitive. Except... I didn't know about it at first! My first clue to it came from making extreme turns in the game. Every time I whipped around the corner, HOOOOOOONNNNNNNKKKKKKKKKKK. WTF? Worse, the game would give me clues to it. "Press the R3 button.." I looked all over the damn controller, couldn't find anything labeled R3. Eventually I figured it out. But.. yeesh. It took me a long time to get to where I could use the controller without accidently hitting that button. Even then, I'm not perfect at it. In my humble opinion, it's not good UI design when you tie features to buttons that could be hit easily. At least in San Andreas's case, it wasn't a big deal.
2.) This isn't really the fault of the Dual Shock controller, but Sony's choice in particular. Why on Earth did they think it was a good idea to use heiroglyphics for the symbols of the buttons? Nintendo (and every other console company out there...) had the right idea. A, B, X, Y, L, R. Easy enough to commit to memory. Sony, argh. Normally, this isn't a big issue. Typically with Playstation games, the buttons are fairly intuitively laid out. San Andreas, though, used these shapes to play a DDR'esque game. They'd show you the symbols you need to hit, and you've got to press the correct button at the right time to get the score. This means you have to memorize the button for each symbol. This is attainable, but thoroughly unnecessary. If this were on the Game Cube, this wouldn't have been a problem.
Yeesh. Sad thing is, they have a legacy to follow. They're not going to address either of my complaints, now. Thanks to backwards compatibility, the symbols are here to stay, and they cannot remove the 3 buttons. I can imagine my complaints wouldn't ever be Sony's #1 concern, but I still find it pretty pathetic. I cannot believe they didn't address the whole "analog sticks suck for FPS games" problem. A built in 'light zapper' sensor on the controller would have been better than nothing, cheap too. I'm honestly shocked that niether MS nor Sony tried this. I think Phil Harrison and Peter Moore should be locked in a room and forced to play a version of San Andreas without the auto-targetting feature.
" It's a game console, there's no excuse for it to cost six hundred bucks. It didn't work for Neo-Geo (which was by far the most powerful console in its day) and it won't work for the PS3."
Ok ok, let's come back down to Earth, here.
1.) The Neo Geo's games were $200. Not a great example. A 3DO would be a better example, though not as supportive of your point. The quality of games was a bigger problem than the initial $700 price tag.
2.) The $600 price tag sucks. Sony knows this. Microsoft knows this. 3DO knows this. Etc. I know I will NOT be paying $600 for this system. Heck, I wouldn't pay this much for a Nintendo system, and I'm a foaming-at-the-mouth Nintendo fan boy.
HOWEVER. The launch of the XBOX 360 cannot have faded much from our minds. Shortages. Outrageous prices on eBay. Microsoft taking a loss on the systems anyway. Even though I despise Sony, I have to concede that it would be awfully dumb of them to launch this system at a lower price. They're going to sell out. There's going to be a shortage for months. They might as well take as LITTLE loss as possible on these machines.
In short, I think the high price is good for them, at least at launch. That said, though, they're in serious trouble if they try to maintain that price for long after the launch. I just don't expect that, though. I don't expect that with competition coming from Microsoft and Nintendo that Sony will keep the $600 tag.
I think Sony made a total ass of themselves at E3. I think $600 is way too much for a system. I think Sony doesn't know shit about video games. I don't think they're on a path to self destruction, at least not based on the price tag of the system.
"However, one might suspect that Opera has fewer security breaks due to less usage."
I don't dispute that. However, a number of times I've seen FireFox exploits that Opera was impervious to.
"Though to be honest I don't see of the appeal of HD over the net. It's the same bullshit video tape of a monkey falling out of a tree or something, just now it's got 16 times the pixels."
It's appealing to me because TV networks are slowly slowly slowly starting to put their shows on-line. Maybe one day... *sigh*